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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:37:00 -
[1]
We have been looking again at ECM ships focusing on their roles and whether these ships can be improved overall to better define their roles a little more. With that in mind, we want to share some of our thoughts and gather constructive feedback and suggestions of your own.
In the days ahead, we will put some changes on sisi to see how they pan out and continue to change or tweak as feedback and playtesting continues.
ECM Range
Generally the ECM optimal range is a little too long with massive optimal ranges possible which would place the ECM specialised ships so far out of the fight to be almost completely safe but suffer no effective hit quality decrease. To bring them closer to the fight we are looking at swapping the base optimal and falloff ranges so at the longer ranges jammers would be operating more in falloff and hence have a lower chance of 'hitting' with their jammers at the extreme ranges.
Signal Distortion Amplifiers
The SDAs are something of a conundrum. They are really only worth fitting on the ECM specialised ships and are the only EWAR enhancing module we have besides the rigs. Currently they increase your ECM strength and we were looking at swapping this to an ECM range bonus and altering either the base strength of the jammers or the ECM strength bonus of the ships so they become less required in every setup and the low slots could be used for tanking for example.
Ship Changes
We have been looking at all the ECM ships (Griffin, Kitsune, Blackbird, Falcon, Rook and Scorpion). We wanted to ensure each ship had a more focused role which was not just bigger, longer range and better than the others so only one wins outright. The two main themes we were looking at was short range brawler and long range sniper. The brawler would focus on ECM strength at shorter range and the sniper would be longer range but weaker with niches in these areas for each of the ships.
Falcon & Rook
The falcon has been changed to be similar to the pilgrim in its role as a ECM brawler at shorter ranges. It has a bigger ECM strength bonus whilst losing its ECM optimal range bonus. In addition its agility and base velocity and have been increased to allow it to be more manoeuvrable at shorter ranges.
Summary Falcon changes
- ECM Strength Bonus increased from 20 to 25% per level - ECM Optimal Range Bonus removed (52km optimal / 81km falloff w/ 2*SDA IIs) - Increase in general manoeuvrability (might give agility bonus to it to replace the ECM optimal range bonus)
The rook operates at longer ranges, able to attack at distance and whilst having a weaker ECM strength but longer ECM range than the falcon can lay some real damage on its target gaining a heavy/heavy assault and standard missile velocity bonus in addition to a small drone bay for additional utility.
Summary Rook Changes
- ECM strength bonus decreased to 15% per level - ECM Optimal Range bonus decreased to 15% per level (92km optimal / 81km falloff) - 5% Heavy/Heavy Assault missile velocity per recon ship level added (105km range with heavy missiles at max skills) - 25m3 drone bay / 25 mbit bandwidth added
The Scorpion
We are looking at putting the scorpion into the short range brawler role. To that end we are looking at removing its ECM Optimal range bonus, increasing the ECM strength bonus a little and adding a cruise/siege launcher rate of fire bonus so it can get close and personal.
Summary Scorpion Changes
- removed the ECM optimal range bonus - increased the ECM strength bonus to 20% per level - added a 5% RoF bonus to cruise & siege missile launchers per level.
Summary
Please provide constructive feedback on the ideas and changes. These changes are not yet on sisi and we will announce when they are. As always, everything is subject to change!
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:37:00 -
[2]
reserved
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:38:00 -
[3]
reserved
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:52:00 -
[4]
Edited by: IceAero on 24/03/2009 17:53:23 Amazing :) :)
The base shield HP on the falcon might been a bump though...
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Count MonteCarlo
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:58:00 -
[5]
Would prefer it if they got deleted, but atleast this is a start
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Larkonis Trassler
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:58:00 -
[6]
Terrible ideas... analysis inbound.
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Dark Flare
Caldari Neckbeards International
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:59:00 -
[7]
Surely if you up the strength of jammers without SDA IIs, then people will still just fit SDA IIs to make the Rook exactly how it was before, and to make the Falcon ******edly OP at jamming?
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Prometheus Exenthal
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:59:00 -
[8]
While your at it, why not make racial jammers only jam their racial counter part. Since multispecs are there for a reason - MY LATEST VIDEO - BATTLE CRUISE |
Benedic
The Aftermath
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:01:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Benedic on 24/03/2009 18:02:19 Brace for flavor of the year whining.
FINALLY CCP DOES SOMETHING GOOD (needs less strength buffs though plox)
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Professor Dumbledore
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:03:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Professor Dumbledore on 24/03/2009 18:04:40 Boy you sure do know how to make things fair and balanced you stupid ****er now we can go back to all ewar is useless ^_^
You guys will never understand your own game i just can't tell you just how stupid this change is.
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Mr Adebisi
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:05:00 -
[11]
I agree ecm needs a hefty nerf, but saying a falcon will act similar to a pilgrim is a bit scary, as pilgrims are completely worthless and no one with half a brain flies them.
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musgrattio
H A V O C Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:06:00 -
[12]
The general idea is fine, DO NOT GO OVERBOARD. We still need a ECM boat that can jam around 200km, and I think we'd all agree that needs to be the Falcon. If you want to make the Rook a close range ship, fine, but recons, in general, especially cloaking recons, are generally not going to be used at very short ranges. Keep the Falcon's range as it is, lower its strength, give the Rook more missile damage, changed sig amps to where the Rook would be an excellent mid range damage dealer and ECM boat. Scorp changes are great, the Kitsune is really fine tbh.
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Telefishopolis
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:06:00 -
[13]
Thank you so much.
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Dangerously Cheesey
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:07:00 -
[14]
So instead of figuring out how to make other electronic warfare modules (RSD, Tracking Disruptors, etc) more viable in fleet fights, you have just decided to nerf ECM to the point where it will be as useless as the others. Strong work.
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Euriti
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:08:00 -
[15]
Aww hell yeah
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OldPueblo
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:09:00 -
[16]
Yes swap optimal and falloff but swap it on damps as well tia.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:09:00 -
[17]
Apocryptha probe system allready nerfed falcons.
Nerf more caldari ships. Soon there is not any Caldari ship to use in pvp.
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SauI Tigh
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:10:00 -
[18]
These are all horrible ideas and im angry at ccp if they nerf ecm right after they finish nerfing cruises/torps. None of the ships are going to be able to fit an armor tank with the current low slot set ups if they use an sda or not.
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Seran Kela
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:13:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Seran Kela on 24/03/2009 18:15:35 Yeah, I expected the Rook to fill the brawler role and the Falcon stay at long distances with weaker strength. Interesting switch though.
Also the scorp should probably remain a sniper to still be useful in fleet engagements - cruise missiles are pretty long range so it just makes more sense to me.
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Khefron
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:13:00 -
[20]
okay, let me get this straight
a ship with no ehp, 2 unbonused missile slots, and a tanking layer that has to be used for its ewar role is somehow a close range brawler?
Are you serious?
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Bary OBama
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:15:00 -
[21]
Quote: adding a cruise/siege launcher rate of fire bonus so it can get close and personal.
Since you are nerfing ECM, can you make it so missiles are no longer horrible in PvP? Give people a reason to use Caldari ships other than for ECM and ratting?
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
We are looking at putting the scorpion into the short range brawler role. To that end we are looking at removing its ECM Optimal range bonus, increasing the ECM strength bonus a little and adding a cruise/siege launcher rate of fire bonus so it can get close and personal.
Especially for the slow and numb Scorp, a Sniper Role would imo be better. Scorps at really long ranges are never that much of an issue. They are slow, can't really get to their sniping position on their own, and their agility gives a ceptor pilot enough time to close in on them when they warp in. ----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Khefron
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:16:00 -
[23]
on the other hand these changes will make the falcon just as useless as the arazu, and pilgrim, leaving the rapier the only recon worth a damn, so I guess this change is appropriate.
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Ivanova Denisovich
Hobbit Enterprises GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:16:00 -
[24]
If you're going to make Scorpions and especially expensive Falcons 'brawlers' you really need to give them a proper tank. Right now ECM ships have their range balanced by being paper-thin, and their range is also their chief protection against being blown up. Put them right in with the enemy fleet and they'll be targetted first, as they are now, but will have no way to escape and no protection. I don't see anything in this proposal to address that problem.
Even if they did get tanking bonuses, I still can't say I like the idea, however. If you have to nerf them, nerf them down to battleship sniping ranges or reduce their jam strength a little bit.
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gibbonsssss
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:16:00 -
[25]
why don't you guys make things like remote sensor damps and target painters worth using before nerfing ecm again
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SauI Tigh
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:18:00 -
[26]
Also "We have been looking at all the ECM ships (Griffin, Kitsune, Blackbird, Falcon, Rook and Scorpion)"
Hmm notice a ship missing there? No since your part of the rebalancing group I guess not. Its the WIDOW. You forgetting it isn't a surprise since you have forgotten all about it since you released it over a YEAR ago and haven't touched it since even though you admitted in a live dev blog that they came PRE-nerfed.
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DNSBLACK
Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:18:00 -
[27]
Leave them alone please
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Sertan Deras
Gallente Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:19:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Sertan Deras on 24/03/2009 18:19:41 So you're going to make the Scorpion, the only EWar BS, completely worthless in fleet fights, that never happen closer than 120-150km? Instead, you want people to fly the uninsurable Rook to do fleet EWar?
That doesn't seem like the best idea I've heard recently, but if history tells us anything, CCP will completely ignore every concern posted here and implement it anyway. At this point, I take these little dev posts as "this will happen in the future" warnings more than honest discussions on the merits of the idea.
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Bacchanalian
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:20:00 -
[29]
The Pilgrim is a terrible model to use for any other ship. As it is it's a bastard stepchild of a ship useful in so few and limited situations that just about any other ship is more useful 99% of the time. Close-range "brawler" ships with less EHP than some t1 cruisers but with pricetags well over that of most battleships aren't "brawlers"--they're easy targets. ____________________ GM Sunshine > oops Neurotica > Hate to see a GM in your gang say 'oops'
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:21:00 -
[30]
I see that the 'better defined role' you have in mind for them is that of gathering dust in a hangar and never undocking.
will update this later with more details of why these ideas are terrible.
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