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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Afganec
Minmatar Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.25 12:43:00 -
[541]
Edited by: Afganec on 25/03/2009 12:47:16 Edited by: Afganec on 25/03/2009 12:45:31 rofl, thank u ccp for good emotions !
I know falc is overpowered. Why not to nerf falc, and maybe boost other electronic warfare ships ?
and as for changes:
Summary Scorpion Changes - removed the ECM optimal range bonus -- Close range bs w/o tank. Muhaha.
Summary Rook Changes - 5% Heavy/Heavy Assault missile velocity per recon ship level added (105km range with heavy missiles at max skills) - 25m3 drone bay / 25 mbit bandwidth added Who needs this crappy missile + drone dps from "always a primary" ship ?
Summary Falcon changes - ECM Optimal Range Bonus removed (52km optimal ..whatever..) Thats exactly pulse apoc optimal! 2 megapulse volleys and we've got a new shiny t2 wreck. That's why u gave us t2 salvager, right ?
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Xia Kairui
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Posted - 2009.03.25 12:52:00 -
[542]
I think a big problem to come to any solution here is that ECM is so different to all other forms of EWAR right now. It is not scripted, but instead "racially challenged", meaning you need a specific module for every race you want to jam. All other EWAR work regardless of the target ship's producer. Due to this the ECM ships are forced or feel obliged to dedicate their entire mid-slots to ECM - no other EWAR ship has to do this. In my eyes the best solution would be to remove this - get rid of all the racial jammers and make one unified ECM module. This should pull the ECM ships more in line with the other EWAR ships and allow them to do something else besides ECM. To compensate for this the ECM strength needs to be adjusted.
Also all other EWAR have a counter module that has some sort of beneficial side effect. Sensor Boosters counter Damps AND make it easier for you to lock that pod. MWDs and ABs counter web and add mobility. The other exception is the Target Painter, and you could say that one is countered by the tank. ECCMs however are only useful if you are about to be jammed and are dead weight otherwise - and even when you need them their effect is often doubtful. I'm also a firm believer in changing the effect of ECM. As others have said before being jammed reduces the target to a spectator who can only hope for a failed cycle. Nothing he can do has any influence on when and if he will be able to do something again, and this is just plain boring.
All these changes will require a lot of rewriting however.
The proposed changes are fast to implement, but to me feel wrong. They appear to focus on the wrong problem and solve that with inadequate means. It somehow looks as if someone wants to disable nano ships by reducing the speed of all ships in game, and noone in his right mind would... oh, wait.
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Red Thunder
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:06:00 -
[543]
hahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah take that falcon whoring noobs :D
Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines |
Penzias
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:10:00 -
[544]
It is extremely unfortunate that CCP wants to completely remove EW as a tactic in the game. It is clear that CCP wants the only thing to happen in space battles is 1) warp jam ship (or warp bubble) 2) fire guns 3) repeat until someone is dead.
EW offers such tantalizing potential to add tactics to the games other than warp jamming and firing guns, that it's sad to see EW being nerfed rather than enhanced. The Falcon ECM debate is a good one, since it should force CCP to relook at ECM, Sensor Dampeners, Tracking Disrupters and Energy Neutralisers to see how to add more balance so there are other ways to win a fight rather than raw dps. Alas, CCP has take the Falcon ECM debate and did the easy thing - nerf everything to uselessness.
With that said, from GM Chronotis's post it is clear that nerfing is the order of the day, so some feedback on the nerf.
1) As many have pointed out CCP has the roles for the Falcon and Rook completely reversed. The Falcon is so paper thin it needs to be the "long range ECM ship" and the Rook has to be the "ECM brawler". Doing it any other way makes no sense. 2) Why in the world would you nerf the Scorpion? When was the last time someone started a nerf Scorpions thread? Folks rarely complain about the Scorpion because it isn't broken. The Scorpion's only Fleet role is to stay at maximum range and jam as many ships as possible. The opposing fleet will always primary a Scorpion that gets within sniping range and will send tackle after it if it's not in sniping range. The Scorpion is a paper thin BS when outfitted for ECM; it's only defense is it's range bonus. So CCP wants to remove the range and make it a "ECM brawler". By adding a 5% RoF bonus? To a ship that can only fit 4 launchers/turrets? Huh? If you really want to make the Scorpion a "ECM Brawler" the only bonus that makes sense is a 5% shield resistance per level bonus. That is the only thing that can given a Scorpion a tiny bit of survivability if it has to fight within sniping range.
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Soldur
Helljumpers Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:10:00 -
[545]
hurry everyone train for caldari so u can npc while we figure out what else they are good for
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Jallem Sims
Minmatar Quantum Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:13:00 -
[546]
i welcome ccp's efforts into amending the falcon.
funny how both sides whine at the other... waaa waaa, they are overpowered... waaa waaa your tears are salty and tasty...
i eventually trained up my alt to fly one to counter those that have falcon alts. last night i went for a 1 v 1 while in my crusier. He was in a battle crusier. As he was loosing he decloaked his falcon. So i decloaked mine to jam him. He then decloaked another falcon >.<
When does it get silly? a fight that a BC should have won, but found he was loosing then used his falcon, it was countered so another falcon was decloaked.... the fight was about who got jams on who.... not who hada great setup, not who could fly at there optimals, or who had the right balance of dps/tank :( (it was a fun fight and the game mechanics are what they are... so be it, but i was amused with the number of falcons on the grid for a simple 1v1)
Reduction is range is good - if you can jam up to 5/6 and still sit 70k from the fight.... unless its a gang of inties your still going to be able to jam the dam and warp out.
increase in dps - there to provide your own short range defense if someone does actually manage to get to you and for some reason you can't jam them?
Tbh, just sounds like ccp are trying to make this ship fit in with the recent speed nurf.
reduced fall off will mean your eccm's are more effective. Means you can't just sit there with your falcon alt, you have to actually fly the ship now. thats the main problem.... falcon alt = sit at safe range click jam cycles....
for those that fly falcons as your main ship, why would this upset you? your going to be effective as always... just going to be more intense for you :) |
Rordan D'Kherr
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:22:00 -
[547]
Originally by: Penzias 2) Why in the world would you nerf the Scorpion?
I tend to say that it's going to be an ecm pwnmobile. The scorp currently has a range role and always gets primaried. So most ppl switch to Falcon (same range, only ECM, cheaper, more agile, cloak).
Now with the Scorp as a close range BS with torps and good ECM strength it's going to let Caldari actually have a good addition. But we will see how it's going...
Originally by: Red Thunder haha*10¦
Fixed it for you.
I am curious when the first "nerf ECM" threads will appear made by people like you who cannot handle the Falcon / Rook / Scorp, because you will get jammed still and will cry that you cannot own everything in your tank & gank fit.
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Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:26:00 -
[548]
hey chronotis, i am going to make my reply as useful as your post was:
**** you
if you are not smart enough to work around ecm ships that is your problem
if you want to take away the versatility of eve and make everything the same, well that is my problems as I, unlike you, love this game.
si i will repeat myself:
**** you
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Serret Nevets
The Hull Miners Union
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:26:00 -
[549]
OMG the cry babies in this thread!!!!
"falcon can't fight up close cause it doesn't have a tank" Oh bologna!!! Just because you don't fit a tank doesn't mean it can't have one. Use one or two of those mids for a LSE II. Sorry... your not going to be able to fit 6-7 ECM to jam the entire enemy fleet. Wow, have to bring two of them...
The Arazu suffers from the same "ain't got no tank"... Now at least with the Falconpossibly in its range, damps *might* be viable.
Domino/Notes? Yeah, it sucks but that's why I'm employed!!! |
Virusen
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:28:00 -
[550]
52 km too short, any jammer will be killed by target's drones, even if target will be in jamm, need at least 80 km. 20 secs really long period of jamm, it can be cut to 10 sec, for example
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Atropos Kahn
Caldari Solarflare Heavy Industries Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:29:00 -
[551]
Wow... I guess the Falcon and Rook will die just that much quicker.
Everyone seems to forget that ECM boats are always... always... always... instant primary... forcing them to become close combat ships just makes them intant dead in any engagement...
If you are going to make them close range... Look at the ECM BURST modules... perhaps give them some luv... expand the range of the burst from 6km with a fall off of 6km, to like 15km with a falloff of like 10km or so...
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The Tzar
Malicious Intentions The Church.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:34:00 -
[552]
Haha! Brilliant!
Please initiate the proposed changes, reduce the range on ECM ships and increase the ECM strength. Good falcon pilots will be EVEN MORE effective and the nub-alt plague will stop using them.
The whiners will still do what they do best until ECM is removed from game completely. __________________________________________
'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________ |
GrumpE
Eye of God Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:38:00 -
[553]
ECM is now balanced with long-range snipers. If you lower the ECM range, will you have to lower the sniper range?
If not, then (paraphrasing CCP Chronotis) wouldn't sniping specialised ships "be so far out of the fight to be almost completely safe"?
What's next once you upset ECM again? |
Scarlet Pimpernel
Clan Eshin
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:41:00 -
[554]
Originally by: Kulmid
Everyone saying the Falcon has no tank, that's because YOU fit no tank, not because it can't be done. Sacrifice some EWar and slap on a tank just like every single recon has to do.
Like those other low slot armour tanking ones you mean that can still use their miss for e-war - gotcha!
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Funky Feeling
Ventis Secundis Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:41:00 -
[555]
you idiots won't leave well enough alone.
I guess all the whinging and moaning by noobs that cannot figure out how to counter the falcon works.... how many more months before you've managed to destroy all the training that everyone has done for everything else?
There are so many freaking problems in this game, why do you insist on trashing the parts of the game that actually make it fun to play. Why not fix the lag and desynching. Make the freaking fleet battles worth fighting for a change.
So.. is there a nerf list.. what ship or mod do you plan on nerfing next? I want to make sure I don't bother training towards it anymore.
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Serret Nevets
The Hull Miners Union
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:44:00 -
[556]
I don't even fly a falcon, and here's a decent fit for this change:
[Falcon, change?] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II ECM - Phase Inverter II ECM - Ion Field Projector II ECM - White Noise Generator II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile 200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Domino/Notes? Yeah, it sucks but that's why I'm employed!!! |
Spurty
Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:49:00 -
[557]
Originally by: GrumpE ECM is now balanced with long-range snipers. If you lower the ECM range, will you have to lower the sniper range?
What is with people bringing up this single 'encounter type' as a defense to 250km Ewar ?
If falcons are getting targeted, they aren't jamming and probably warped off and cloaked before any ship got within 180kms of them (nano-rebalance makes em nice and safe).
Thats just disturbing lol.
Someone else already pointed out that if you want to keep this, give all other races equal range with their Ewar to counter every 'encounter type'.
CCP does need to do something to ECM, its outrageous and has been for years, only we could get ships up to 30km/s to counter it. Now we can't cover 250kms in under 20 seconds.
20 seconds is all it takes to primary some ships if you have enough friends.
And for the 'paper thin' tank tards, put a 1600mm plate on. Nice hitpoint buffer there. Certainly not paper thin if you don't go full tard with the midslots all filled with Ewar.
No other Ewar ship can afford that, so welcome to the party!
Looking forward to this.
However this said, the Rook is clearly the brawler CCP.
Please just write a simulation and do 1000 battles automatically and see which survives longer, falcon or rook up close!
Originally by: Butter Dog
I think you'll find that 10 seconds > 1 month
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Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:49:00 -
[558]
hey chronotis, i am going to make my reply as useful as your post was:
**** you
if you are not smart enough to work around ecm ships that is your problem
if you want to take away the versatility of eve and make everything the same, well that is my problems as I, unlike you, love this game.
si i will repeat myself:
**** you
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Mendolus
Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:50:00 -
[559]
Looks like I'll be training Gallente Cruiser V after all. 25 days of Caldari Cruiser V, can I cash in those chips and use towards Gallente?
I don't see myself flying a 200mil paper ship at melee range, so you can have your Falcon back now
Pretty soon we'll all be flying pong boards and the only thing in space will be cubes floating around waiting for us to paddle them cuz they're oh so naughty.
Seriously though, just swap optimal and falloff, everyone can live with that, there's no reason to go all kamikaze on ECM ships. Spend all that extra energy to buff the other recons, some of them certainly need some TLC.
{...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness} |
Tekki Sandan
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:51:00 -
[560]
yay, but i can see falcons just adding the new range enhancing mods in the lows to get that range up and then basically they just got a jam strenght boost, and rather than sitting at 200 they will be 150 (within sniping range il admit but still its a long way out)
just what it looks like to me - A boost for the falcon, and makes the rook less useless..
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:53:00 -
[561]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 25/03/2009 13:55:24
Originally by: Serret Nevets I don't even fly a falcon, and here's a decent fit for this change:
[Falcon, change?] [...]
Sure, you don't fly them.
Or you would know that a Falcon has too bad resists to tank same with 2 LSE and 2 rigs, and need a Sensor Booster to be able to jam a jammer before be jammed. Also, the new version should need range rigs, it would be better.
Seriously, players of other race than Caldari shouldn't comment a nerf who concern Caldari players. ___________________
CCP presents...
Band Of Brothers Reloaded : The Return Of T20
The new sequel of the darwining greater alliance of all MMORPGs.
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Maddan69
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:53:00 -
[562]
I havnt thumbed through this whole thread yet but one problem I see with nerfing the falcon like this is pirates are gonna get hit hard if they cannot jam past sentry gun range (150km) on stations and gates.
Basically it makes the falcon a toy that will not be used but rather it will just collect dust in my hangar. I have flown the falcon for over 2 years now and yes it needs a change but I dont think this nerf is the best route. I will be testing out new fits on SISI when it has these changes applied to them.
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Karezan
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:57:00 -
[563]
Originally by: Rordan D'Kherr
Originally by: Penzias 2) Why in the world would you nerf the Scorpion?
I tend to say that it's going to be an ecm pwnmobile. The scorp currently has a range role and always gets primaried. So most ppl switch to Falcon (same range, only ECM, cheaper, more agile, cloak).
Falcon cheaper than scorp?
Originally by: Serret Nevets OMG the cry babies in this thread!!!!
"falcon can't fight up close cause it doesn't have a tank" Oh bologna!!! Just because you don't fit a tank doesn't mean it can't have one. Use one or two of those mids for a LSE II. Sorry... your not going to be able to fit 6-7 ECM to jam the entire enemy fleet. Wow, have to bring two of them...
The Arazu suffers from the same "ain't got no tank"... Now at least with the Falconpossibly in its range, damps *might* be viable.
1 or 2 LSE? So that basically adds like 3 seconds to it's lifespan? Sweet!
The arazu can fit a better tank, having 4 lows that it can all dedicate to a tank, whereas if the falcon did the same thing for mids, it would only have 3 left, and still no MWD or point. Now before you say that the falcon can use those 3 lows for a tank, yes it can, but it's armor is complete crap compared to the arazu, and it is not designed to armor tank so it has higher CPU and lower PG (whereas armor tanks have lower CPU and higher PG).
So yes, it's tank is worse than the arazu, and guess what? When was the last time you saw people talking about the merit of an arazu in fleets? It's no secret it needs a buff, it's been ****ed every since the damp nerf, but has simply gone ignored.
Lastly, have you even been in a fleet of any size at all?
A single falcon does not jam an entire fleet, that's a dumb statement even for a hyperbole. No fleet of any size would limit themselves to only one falcon if more are available, people already bring more than 2, that's pretty much why the nerf cries happened in the first place. The new falcon wouldn't have a place in fleet ops anyway, they are typically long range. I'm sure even you can figure out what will happen to a flimsy ship when it is within 50km of the enemy while the rest of your fleet is 180km out.
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Kriller
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:12:00 -
[564]
If you are going to make these changes remove the chance based functionality and make it hit every time then it might be viable to go close range. So atleast you KNOW that you will get a jam !
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Hanns
Canadian Aerospace Defence Sector
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:15:00 -
[565]
Originally by: Barrey
2) Divide ECM into long-range/low strength and short-range/high strength categories, through either scripts or separate mods. This would force ECM ships to make the same range/effectiveness trade-off that DPS ships must make.
or
3) Divide ECM mods into cruiser-sized and battleship mods. Much like you can't use heavy turrets to shoot frigates, maybe you shouldn't be able to use the same ECM mods on both an interceptor and a carrier. Although this would effectively decrease the capabilities of an ECM specialized pilot, it would add to fleet diversity and allow another layer to the strategy of equipping a fleet.
I like this, i hate falcons but i think the nerf might be a little heavy handed.
Originally by: Tuxford a new retribution bonus +1 med slot per level
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Lijhal
FrEE d00M Fighters
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:22:00 -
[566]
seriously, why dont you delete caldari at all and give us the option to replace our sp's into other skills ?
amarr, here i come!
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:24:00 -
[567]
pretty ******ed ideas
ecm ships die in a blink of eye, if ecm streght would decrease even a bit from current they'd be pretty useless piece of junk. if you change SDA's it should be made sure that scorpion/rook etc. can still have same ECM strenght even without 3 of those modules. Gawd...
if you can't jam from 200km+ ship which gets always primaried dies in less than 10 seconds you need for aligning out... under 100km ecm optimal what are you dev guys thinking huh? Yeah, sure lets put ships which are least maneuverable, slow and have tank next to nothing in point blank range. And don't forget drones which are practically immune to ewar to beging with.
Great idea.
Marvelous.
Needless to say I'm against this whole thing, and glad I'm now amarr pilot.
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Winterreign
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:27:00 -
[568]
This is my good idea for ECM. Please read following CCP.
Personaly the ranges are not nessisarly the problem. The problem is the functionality of ECM in general.
ECM stands for Electronic Counter Measures, the fact that in eve what ECM means is removing a ship from combat. Two things which don't go together.
There is no way to circumvent Jamming you just have to wait out your cycle time as with sensor dampening you can attempt to close the distance to overcome the effects of being Sensor dampened.
Personaly i would call for a radical redesign of ECM in general.
Redirecting ECM to a more intuitive roll with ECM working just like it's name sake.
When you target an enemy model and utilize ECM it should lower your Signature radius VS that target by a certain amount. This should always be a Set amount reguardless if you successfuly cause them to loose lock or not.
Further more if that target has you locked on, they stand a chance of Losing lock-on of your Ship only. They will not loose lock with all ships they have targeted. Just the one utlizeing ECM.
There is no penalty, they are not jammed for 20 secconds they just loose lock-on. The lock on time, is penalty enough really.
In summery: Target ship has you locked. You target ship and use ECM against them. You have decreased sig radius vs that ship and that ship stands chance to loose lock on you.
You can stack multiple ECM's to lower your Signature radius further but like all things in Eve multiple systems gains less and less return but increase's ability to disrupt lock on.
Further More, introduce somthing called ECM-Links which function exactly like all other linking Electronics, this utlize's your ships bonus's for ECM Str, on another freindly ship and any ships-locked onto them suffer a penalty: decreasing freindly targets signature radius and the chance to loose lock on with that ship.
So now we have two different systems, ECM for personal protection and ECM-Linking for defending teammates. No longer will ECM ships be purely outfitted with just ECM jammers but instead have a mix of personal ECM and support ECM modeuls.
I would get rid of ECCM and ECCM linking unless you want to keep it for strictly sensor Str bonus, instead we have target painter that is the real counter to ECM. As it should be.
Now what we will see is a significant increase in Target painters and their ability to not only counter ECM but make as intended make Signature Radius of the target bigger.
Additionaly the change in ECM means Burst ECM can be used in high sec. Thus bringing a much maligned system back into functionality and feasability. Have it represented like a small bubble effect. Lowering freindly ships signature radius vs enemy ships in the bubble and enemy ships in the bubble suffering chance of loosing lock against freindly targets in the bubble.
Thus filling almost filling the role of previous ECM's causing an enemy to loose all targeted lock-on's. they can immedently re-target but still it hurts them. Making burst ECM a very short range but effective counter.
Signal Distortions and be used to increase ECM and ECM-linking ranges as well as a small bonus to Jammer Str. Further more you should consider making Signal Distortions a global system. Having a small increase in strength for all Electronic warfare equipment, Tracking disrupters, targeting painting, ECM, Sensor Damp as well as the optimal range bonus.
Thus ECM is not the End-All Be all of ship support but plays a very effective and tactical support role more in line with it's name sake and balencing.
Onto your actual questions
Scorp deffinatly needs a Seige/cruise missle ROF bonus or perferably a Damage Bonus. And I would go so far to lower high slots to 5 and increase launchers to 5. It is a battleship after all and it should have some means of killing more effectivly
Thoughts?
-Winter
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Threv Echandari
Caldari K Directorate
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:36:00 -
[569]
W.T.F. Are you smoking over there In Iceland
First you want to Turn the SB into a single role Useless Piece of Sheeit. Now you want to swap the roles of the Falcon and The Rook (which nobody uses)?!?! And to top it off this leaves your 150KM Sniping BS untouchable. WTG CCP. Look I think the changes you are proposing are interesting, your are doing to an entire ship class what you did to Sensor Damps. Heck why not just script the ECM Modules it makes about as much sense. I fly a Falcon and I will agree that when the Falcon come on scene its pretty much game over nnd Something needs to be done since the rook is never used because the falcon is so much better.However your proposals will just reverse the situation making the Falcon damn near useless (like the Pilgrim) and the Rook the prefreed ship except the Snipers will pop them because they can't jam them at range. It the Stealth Bomber redux (Like the absurd Stealth Bomber changes) Close Range + paper tank = certain death. DO YOU EVEN PLAY YOUR OWN GAME?!?
The Scorpion I'm fine with it for the most part. Give it an better resists and faster lock time with the dmg bonus and your golden, it will fill its Brawler role nicely. (Huge bonus to ECM Burst too see bottom)
If you are going to stay true to your twisted form I suppose your going to make the Griffin a "Brawler" and the Kitsune the Sniper. I have not seen you proposal on that but judging by the Bizzaro world changes you are contemplating it would not surprise me. For the love of whatever you hold holy think this over again. These changes leave the Sniper BS the undisputed king of the battlefield with no decent counter (except more Snipers). I dont mind an ECM Strength nerf as long as the ranges are comparable to a sniping BS. (The BS will have counter with ECCM so it would be a nice balance I think).
Oh and while your at it try and show some love to the ECM Burst as it stands now its barely useful against a Shuttle if you are going to go with this "Brawler" fantasy make it so the Burst can actually break a RR BS gang (as it its now BS Sensore strength will alway be more powerful than the Burst) ---------------------------------------- Happiness is a Wet Pod
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Vrikshaka
0ff-Peak Esoteric Cutthroats
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:36:00 -
[570]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis We have been looking again at ECM ships focusing on their roles and whether these ships can be improved overall to better define their roles a little more.
Awesome. Sweet Falcon alt tears, keep em coming.
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