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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Laodamia
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:44:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Panzram As a falcon hater i say bravo. Was hoping for a subtle nerf but making them short range "brawlers" (hah!) really twists the knife. Oh, and making the combat recon the long range one is brilliant (if you're trying to screw over ecm pilots that is) with the useless drone bonus the icing on the nerf cake. Rook use will remain at current levels, ie almost none, and falcon use will plummet in fleet warfare. If you carry through with this there is no saving the falcon, and i say good riddance. You take a nice crap on the scorpion too to round out the carnage. Don't be discouraged by the negative responses from the ECM fairies, dragging the last e-war platfrom down to the near uselessness of the others IS a type of balancing. Removing the hulls altogether would tidy up the market too.
this
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:44:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Frabba
Originally by: Kebabski People whinign escp goons that falcon doesn't need nerfing fail. Saying falcon is cool for pvp and is keeping pvp interessting, while it's actually the one ship that ****s pvp all the time. ''Let's try to take that small gang on in my won'', meh falcon decloaks and permajammed. jammers are overpowered anyway, being able to permajam someone shouldn't be possible, takes the fun out of the game
Most goons from what I have seen actually were expecting the Falcon nerf. It's the scorpion nerf that is suprising us.
Yes well let's face it the legions of overpowered Scorpions dominating all other battleships had to go for the good of the game.
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Seran Kela
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:45:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Malcanis
Hahahaha are you serious? "Solo Falcons"? Tell me you were being ironic? Please?
Reality check: Falcon has a 5-6 second targeting delay, plus a none-too-exciting scan res. If it has to be at ~50Km, even cruisers can target it, easily targeting it before the falcon can lock. No "using your cloak for defence" when targeted.
What will actually happen is: uncloak, try and get 1 jam against a few targets, warp out. If there are any bubbles, then the Falcon is effectively prevented from returning. If there are gate guns, the falcon cannot engage at all (I for one welcome our new unbreakable lo-sec RR BS blob overlords ).
Thus the new Falcon is only really useful in high-sec or as a kind of alternate heavy covops.
I mean it in a good way. Oftentimes falcon pilots sit around by themselves far off a gate knowing full well that nobody will catch them. Anybody who used a falcon solo in combat is an idiot - now, anybody who uses a falcon solo period should just be flying a buzzard.
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Alekanderu
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:46:00 -
[124]
nobody disagrees with nerfing the falcon, it's way too powerful as it is right now, but there is no reason whatsoever to change the scorpion
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Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:46:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Malena Panic
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne I have to disagree with the proposed changes wholeheartedly. The problem with the Falcon isn't the range that it can jam from, it's the fact that there is NO proper counter for it.
Here's my proposal to "fix" the Falcon:
ECCM - Gravimetric II
If you'd ever fit ECCM you'd know the pointlessness of wasting a precious midslot on a chance based mechanic.
The problem isn't the Falcon, it's 'twenty seconds with your thumb up your ass'. Fix the game mechanic instead of trying to 'balance' the ships please.
I have fit ECCM... several times. I know exactly how useless it is. This is why I'm proposing these changes, so that if you have one or two heavy tacklers or mid range snipers in a fleet with my version of ECCM on, then they will actually have a chance to grief the falcons. ---------------------------------
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Proud American
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:47:00 -
[126]
In Eve, they came first for the Dampeners, And I didnĘt speak up because I didn't fly Gallente Recon ships;
And then they came for the Nosferatu, And I didnĘt speak up because I didn't fly Amarr Recon ships;
And then they came for the Webs, And I didnĘt speak up because I didn't fly Minmatar Recons ships;
And then . . . they came for the ECM . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up. |
Alekanderu
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:48:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires If they turn the scorp into a hybrid ship with a tracking bonus and ewar strength it becomes a great anti-support ship.
who cares about another anti-support ship, there are a whole bunch of extremely effective anti-support ships already, the scorpion will just not be flown in 0.0 fleets
all your ideas and opinions in this thread have been horrible and wrong
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Fahtim Meidires
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:49:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Alekanderu nobody disagrees with nerfing the falcon, it's way too powerful as it is right now, but there is no reason whatsoever to change the scorpion
Well, nobody ever seriously uses the cruise missiles, it only exists as a battleship-sized blackbird.
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Peter Powers
FinFleet Band of Brothers Reloaded
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:49:00 -
[129]
i think you confused ships.
the falcon is the force recon, the rook is the combat recon.
the combat recon should be the one that goes right into a fight and should be a bit tougher
while the force recon should be the one which tries to avoid direct combat.
Originally by: Falcon Info
Force recon ships are the cruiser-class equivalent of covert ops frigates. While not as resilient as combat recon ships,
Originally by: Rook Info
Filling a role next to their class counterpart, the heavy assault ship, combat recon ships are the state of the art when it comes to anti-support support. They are also devastating adversaries in smaller skirmishes, possessing strong defensive capabilities in addition to their electronic superiority.
the proposed changes break with the roles of those ships.
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Fahtim Meidires
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:50:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Alekanderu
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires If they turn the scorp into a hybrid ship with a tracking bonus and ewar strength it becomes a great anti-support ship.
who cares about another anti-support ship, there are a whole bunch of extremely effective anti-support ships already, the scorpion will just not be flown in 0.0 fleets
all your ideas and opinions in this thread have been horrible and wrong
Why does the scorpion exist? It has no purpose at the moment. Zero. It sucks at damage because missiles suck in fleet and is not much better than a blackbird. Might as well change it into something interesting.
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Fahtim Meidires
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:53:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Peter Powers
Originally by: Falcon Info
Force recon ships are the cruiser-class equivalent of covert ops frigates. While not as resilient as combat recon ships,
Originally by: Rook Info
Filling a role next to their class counterpart, the heavy assault ship, combat recon ships are the state of the art when it comes to anti-support support. They are also devastating adversaries in smaller skirmishes, possessing strong defensive capabilities in addition to their electronic superiority.
the proposed changes break with the roles of those ships.
The roles are pretty poorly worded. Force recons could be force multipliers in small-medium gangs. Combat recons could be good solo ships.
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LOPEZ
HOMELESS. The Shelter
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:53:00 -
[132]
Sorry but I think the changes are not to bad. I've flown falcons a lot, and frankly it's boring. I can just sit at a massive range, jam everything I need to, and warp out if i need to.
Bringing a falcon in close will force the pilot to actually pay attention. To *gasp* actually use their brains.
Good falcon/rook pilots will still be a pain in the ass to people and the bad ones... well they will stop flying the ships cause "they got nerfed to hard".
Bravo CCP. Appreciate you forcing people to know how to fly ships well to enjoy them. No more "i win button from 170km+". Revelation Eclipse |
Incantare
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:54:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Incantare on 24/03/2009 19:54:45 What about THE WIDOW? Currently it's only redeeming factor as an ECM ship is being tied for highest ECM strength while having more mids than a falcon. With the falcon's bonus at +25% you are killing that advantage while leaving it with all its current drawbacks.
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Alekanderu
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:55:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires
Originally by: Alekanderu
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires If they turn the scorp into a hybrid ship with a tracking bonus and ewar strength it becomes a great anti-support ship.
who cares about another anti-support ship, there are a whole bunch of extremely effective anti-support ships already, the scorpion will just not be flown in 0.0 fleets
all your ideas and opinions in this thread have been horrible and wrong
Why does the scorpion exist? It has no purpose at the moment. Zero. It sucks at damage because missiles suck in fleet and is not much better than a blackbird. Might as well change it into something interesting.
you don't know what you're talking about at all
you can fit more jammers, sensor boosters and rigs on a scorp which makes it a better ecm platform than the blackbird, and it also doesn't pop as soon as an apoc looks at it, which makes it better for fleet work
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Fahtim Meidires
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:56:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Incantare Edited by: Incantare on 24/03/2009 19:54:45 What about THE WIDOW? Currently it's only redeeming factor as an ECM ship is being tied for highest ECM strength while having more mids than a falcon. With the falcon's bonus at +25% you are killing that advantage while leaving it with all its current drawbacks.
Widow can provide dps and ewar from outside of 100km. Not many other ships can do that (i guess the rook will be able to). Black ops ships should look a lot like their combat recon counterparts as far as bonuses.
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saltrock0000
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:58:00 -
[136]
yeah great plan, nurf the ONLY ships caldari have for pvp.. the ONLY ships of any use as you know missiles arnt ment for pvp!!
If these nurfs keep happeneing you will loose alot of players.. I call for a nurf of mining lasers, cargo holds and the amount of gravoimetric sites inside these wormholes.... stop loving the ISK sellers, and respect the pvpers
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Shifter Stark
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:58:00 -
[137]
I've been flying caldari recons for a while, so I'm not at all surprised to see that they're being rebalanced.
Falcons are made of paper and don't have any weapon system bonuses, so it doesn't really make sense to turn them into a 'brawler' when that's pretty clearly the rook's role. The rook has 20% higher EHP and has the hardpoints to fit a decent weapons system. I think that if you upped the rook jam strength bonus, and gave it maybe a launcher rate of fire bonus while removing the range bonus that people might actually fly it.
That said, if a falcon wants to stay safe, it should definitely be jamming in falloff. So, maybe removing the range bonus and giving it a falloff bonus would be more appropriate.
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Spurty
Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:59:00 -
[138]
falcon and rook look/feel backwards.
ECM ships only paperthin as people don't fit any tank to them. Drop one of those ECM modules and fit some shield extenders.
Any one fitting a rapier with all mid slots filled with webs and tps is going to be laughed at, why not laugh at caldari as well?
Originally by: Butter Dog
I think you'll find that 10 seconds > 1 month
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Yonker
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:00:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne I have fit ECCM... several times. I know exactly how useless it is. This is why I'm proposing these changes, so that if you have one or two heavy tacklers or mid range snipers in a fleet with my version of ECCM on, then they will actually have a chance to grief the falcons.
ECCM is really annoying to an EWAR Pilot. It changes your Jam chance from like 60% to ~30%. While you may not feel that as a pilot ("oh god I got jammed, f this ECCM"), on a large scale ECCM is pretty strong.
They could change it so that ECCM cut the jam time in half, that'd pretty much fix everyone's problem with ECM. One module to cut it in half 2 for nearly no effect... I wish something like that existed for damage.
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eliminator2
Gallente THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:00:00 -
[140]
this is like blaster nerf all over again
people give more and better ideas yet CCP goes with fail ideas of there own seriously find some new idea's people in you corporation CCP these ****ing sux
and just after a good expansion as well "sigh"
y not just boost every ships ecm strengh and be done with it
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Jedziah
Asshats and Alcoholics Turbo.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:02:00 -
[141]
ECM ships in their current state neither swing the course of a fight or win a fight.
THEY PREVENT FIGHTS
CCP, today you have made the best step for many a year. Even surpassing the great work of Quantum Rise.
One comment I have to you Caldari whining chaps is how much of a beast the Scorpion will become with a RoF bonus on torps and 8 mid slots for PvP.
700 dps with drones and just under a 2k dps tank will make the Scorpion a real dark horse PvP battleship.
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Fahtim Meidires
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:03:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Alekanderu
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires
Originally by: Alekanderu
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires If they turn the scorp into a hybrid ship with a tracking bonus and ewar strength it becomes a great anti-support ship.
who cares about another anti-support ship, there are a whole bunch of extremely effective anti-support ships already, the scorpion will just not be flown in 0.0 fleets
all your ideas and opinions in this thread have been horrible and wrong
Why does the scorpion exist? It has no purpose at the moment. Zero. It sucks at damage because missiles suck in fleet and is not much better than a blackbird. Might as well change it into something interesting.
you don't know what you're talking about at all
you can fit more jammers, sensor boosters and rigs on a scorp which makes it a better ecm platform than the blackbird, and it also doesn't pop as soon as an apoc looks at it, which makes it better for fleet work
I've flown buzzards, falcons and scorpions almost exclusively for the past 6 months. I guess what I'm arguing is that the scorpion's role is so out of place. If you want a battleship-sized ewar platform, fly black ops. It makes no sense for the scorpion to even exist since there are no other T1 ewar battlships.
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Mr Frog
Asshats and Alcoholics Turbo.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:03:00 -
[143]
YES, FERKING YES!!!
Best change ever.
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eliminator2
Gallente THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:04:00 -
[144]
Originally by: saltrock0000 yeah great plan, nurf the ONLY ships caldari have for pvp.. the ONLY ships of any use as you know missiles arnt ment for pvp!!
If these nurfs keep happeneing you will loose alot of players.. I call for a nurf of mining lasers, cargo holds and the amount of gravoimetric sites inside these wormholes.... stop loving the ISK sellers, and respect the pvpers
u never seen a gank rokh shield tank + blasters? seriously get out into the real pvp more mmmkay
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ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:04:00 -
[145]
im not a big fan of ecm, and i tend to hate the falcon.
but come on, calling the falcon for a brawler with its 2 launcher slots is just cruel to any falcon pilot out there
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Mahke
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:05:00 -
[146]
For the scorp, how about giving a bonus to passive tanking (10% shield size/level or 5% resist) instead of a missile bonus?
This would allow it to be more of a brawler while retaining the role as a primarily ECM focused ship. [that is IF you decide to make it a "brawler"]
Also, please please please leave us at least one t1 ship, be it the scorp or blackbird, that is capable of using ecm at t2 sniping fleet ranges. Don't make us completely obsolete in range gangs .
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SDragoon
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:05:00 -
[147]
Edited by: SDragoon on 24/03/2009 20:07:02 The only problem I see here is in low sec. With these changes outlaws will no longer be able to field falcons as jamming within gate range will get them insta barbecued. It's true the rook can fill this role (to a much weaker degree) but when these changes come around there will be a lot of people stuck with a falcon that now need a rook to do their job.
It would also make sense that the rook should be the up close brawler instead of the falcon, it has more firepower and the addition of drones is going to be useless at the ranges it will be used at. I know people think the combination of covop cloak with long range is over powered, but with a reduction in strength and range bonus will force them to reduce their power substantially in order to be able to continue to jam at these ranges.
Once again I think the easiest solution is to buff the optimal range of damps by 60-80%. This will allow them to be a thorn in the side of anyone trying to jam at these extreme ranges while still allowing so called brawling ECM. It's also a much easier change then moving all these bonuses around and will take less time to balance.
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Alekanderu
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:06:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Alekanderu on 24/03/2009 20:06:59
Originally by: Jedziah ECM ships in their current state neither swing the course of a fight or win a fight.
THEY PREVENT FIGHTS
CCP, today you have made the best step for many a year. Even surpassing the great work of Quantum Rise.
One comment I have to you Caldari whining chaps is how much of a beast the Scorpion will become with a RoF bonus on torps and 8 mid slots for PvP.
700 dps with drones and just under a 2k dps tank will make the Scorpion a real dark horse PvP battleship.
torps are useless for pvp apart from maybe some lowsec stuff and empire station camping
the only ecm ship that needs a nerf is the falcon; there's nothing wrong with ecm in itself, it's just that the alternatives (such as other e-war) need to be made viable again
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Mr Frog
Asshats and Alcoholics Turbo.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:06:00 -
[149]
Originally by: saltrock0000 If these nurfs keep happeneing you will loose alot of players.. I call for a nurf of mining lasers, cargo holds and the amount of gravoimetric sites inside these wormholes.... stop loving the ISK sellers, and respect the pvpers
wut.
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Incantare
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:09:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires
Widow can provide dps and ewar from outside of 100km. Not many other ships can do that (i guess the rook will be able to).
With the changes given in the original post it'll have the similar range to falcon since neither will have a range bonus.
Quote: (52km optimal / 81km falloff w/ 2*SDA IIs)
or slightly more with a third SDA. Yes it does some damage, and has more hp. It also aligns slower, costs far more, has a much larger sig but most importantly has a terrible locking time which is especially important when fighting other ECM ships.
Quote:
Black ops ships should look a lot like their combat recon counterparts as far as bonuses.
Its bonuses will be closer to that of the falcon than the rook.
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