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Stealth Bombers II - A new focused role

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 34 post(s)
Kagura Nikon Minmatar M. Corp	Posted - 2009.04.06 19:17:00 - [901] Originally by: BetaZ Any chance you guys would be willing to redistribute my Cruise skills into Torps? Cruise missiles are usefull for other thigns than bomber. Changing skills is nonsense.Specially because there is alot of people that woudl want to maintain their skill as they are now. So woudl be a herculean work to ask each one of the 300k players if they want a change or not for his char. Just train torpedos.. 2 weeks won't kill anyone. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.04.06 19:19:00 - [902] Chronotis you are starting to impede on Zulupark levels of awesome in keeping with this thread and the discussion therein, i must say i fear for you wellbeing, for if you continue along this road it can only lead to a clash with Mitnal and that would be messy. To my fellow players, please read the whole thread as i keep seeing people whom havent posted yet raising the same issues and/or point (withou further questioning or OC) that have already been commented on by a dev. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
darkmancer	Posted - 2009.04.06 19:24:00 - [903] Don't you think the 5k alpha strike these things can put out is a little extreme? I know it's hard to apply all the damage from torps but for the cost of using a few ints with web/scramb (which you should have anyway) or a rapier even a small force will be able to insta pop bc's even bs. Hell a DD does 70k of damage - thats only around 15 bombers (not even using bombs). I can see these things killing off bs for everything except pos shoots - why lug around a bs fleet around when these things can do the job just as well (even better if you throw in a few bombs). Yes they're glass cannons but theres no way to force an engagement with ints and cloakers, they're going to be an absolute pain in the arse to hit, and can scatter in a moments notice. If they hit Tranq as they are they will be abused in the same way nanos were, blobs of forces blowing the crap out of everything they come accross while being impossible to pick off more than a couple. As soon as they start recieving damage they're warp. They're fine solo upto small groups, but start getting 10+ together eep. The range bonus is too much as well the "short" range option of 54 km's means you can operate while being extremely difficult to be tackled, basically you'll have to alpha them (possible, but difficult given the small sig and possible use of an ab). --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong
Kagura Nikon Minmatar M. Corp	Posted - 2009.04.06 19:27:00 - [904] Originally by: darkmancer Don't you think the 5k alpha strike these things can put out is a little extreme? I know it's hard to apply all the damage from torps but for the cost of using a few ints with web/scramb (which you should have anyway) or a rapier even a small force will be able to insta pop bc's even bs. Hell a DD does 70k of damage - thats only around 15 bombers (not even using bombs). I can see these things killing off bs for everything except pos shoots - why lug around a bs fleet around when these things can do the job just as well (even better if you throw in a few bombs). Yes they're glass cannons but theres no way to force an engagement with ints and cloakers, they're going to be an absolute pain in the arse to hit, and can scatter in a moments notice. If they hit Tranq as they are they will be abused in the same way nanos were, blobs of forces blowing the crap out of everything they come accross while being impossible to pick off more than a couple. As soon as they start recieving damage they're warp. They're fine solo upto small groups, but start getting 10+ together eep. The range bonus is too much as well the "short" range option of 54 km's means you can operate while being extremely difficult to be tackled, basically you'll have to alpha them (possible, but difficult given the small sig and possible use of an ab). They are usable as anti poS . But far far from being as efficient as a RR BS gang. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
yani dumyat Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.	Posted - 2009.04.06 19:27:00 - [905] Thanks to Chronotis and CCP for all your work, This is turning into a nice little ship Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Kagura Nikon Can at least you leave a paper note in your desk written "One day.. check again if now we can give SBombers a special cloak.." ? It's more than just a post-it :) I'll look forward to a scripted cloak or other solution at some point, please keep this on the drawing board. Sig_________________________________________________________________________________ My alliance, corp, psychiatrist and parole officer claim no responsibility for my actions on these forums.
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.04.06 19:31:00 - [906] Originally by: darkmancer They're fine solo upto small groups, but start getting 10+ together eep. Honestly, i would rather see and fly with a 10 man RR BS gang than a SB gang. Apart from being cheaper to lose you have a much better engagement envelope in almost all situations. The reality will be that people will use whatever is most effective for the job and for anything but deep 0.0 recon gangs, BO mediated travel or ganking ratters there are other ships that perform any given role more effectively; and for less isk after insurance! Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Gibly Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.06 19:34:00 - [907] personally i hate this torpedo strategy. i used to get eaten alive if i ever got anywheres near close to the fight. stealth bombers seriusly only have 1 thausand hp if you add up all 3 layers of defences together. the only way to keep them alive is to go 140-160km out and fire missiles. and yes there are disadvantages to that 1: someone else has to tackle.. 2: travel time is kinda slow. the only defence a stealth bomber has is it's cloaking device and distence to allow it to recloak if it is threatened. you are taking away the stealth bombers two defences away from it by doing this. yeah i know currently stealth bombers dont do that great of dps .. but to be honest i am compleatly happy with 150-200 dps if it means i can be stealthy and also i have a pretty nice volley. i dont see a need to increase DPS of stealth bombers presently. and i dont see what the problem is with them having thier distence because you can just warp out unles they have tacklers.
Muugly	Posted - 2009.04.06 19:52:00 - [908] can you make it have a range/dmg bonus to cruise missiles and torps? i can see why people want more damage at higher risk as an option. but i dont see why long range is out of the question. EVRY other ship has the option to the two different types of guns/launchers for thier size categorys. i originally thought torps were out of the option because if it being too overpowered .... but now you WANT them to use torps .. but we have to give up our cruise missiles? i am very content with the current role/situation the SBs are in now i dont want more damage. the covert cloak would be nice but not necisarry. if you left thier cruie missile capability (range and damage bonus inclusded) but added the torp option i think that would be a good comprimise. AFTER ALL the ship cannot do both at the same time so i dont see why you would not let us have our long range lessor damage output.
smokeydapot	Posted - 2009.04.06 20:02:00 - [909] Ranger1 lets just go through this for one second shall we. faction 29.169m T2 precision 45.09m T2 heavy dammage 91.85m Explosion rad. ( with ship bonus ) Faction 69 m/s T2 precision 71 m/s T2 heavy dammage 58 m/s Exp Velocity ( standard ) deimos sig 160m ishtar sig 145m arazu sig 162m falcon sig 180m zealot sig 125m sacrilege sig 140m eagle sig 150m cerberus sig 135m muminn sig 130m vegabond sig 115m The fact that the cruise's would easily hit these for max dammage sugests to me at least( maybe not you ) that these may be the intended target for this ship but lets goto the facton crusies for a second shall we with the 29.169m sig ?? retribution sig 35m vengence sig 37m harpy sig 37m hawk sig 39m enyo sig 37m ishkur sig 39m jaguar sig 34m wolf sig 33m Now ok yes there is the ships speed to take into account also im not disputing that but with faction ammo ( and someone webbing the target ship or ships ) the currand SB should easily take these out prehaps even interceptors ( im not going through all there sigs aswell for you ). But you might say it can take down all the ships in the 1st list well not with its currant Exp Vel it cant because non move slower than 100 m/s ( not sure what they would move at Webbed ) but for the sake of this they are not. Lets move on to the BC's shall we: Harbinger sig 265m Speed 150 m/s prophecy sig 265m Speed 150 m/s drake sig 285 m speed 140 m/s ferox sig 285m speed 140 m/s brutix sig 300m speed 145 m/s myrmidon sig 300m speed 145 m/s cyclone sig 240m speed 165 m/s hurricane sig 240m speed 165 m/s Now then can you tell me if you can hit them ships for max dammage with the currant bonuses that are on TQ now the fact that you will never find a ship listed abouve without a MWD complicates this further. The sig bonuses to me sugest that this ship was intended to kill frigs with ease and something like what is being proposed here now happend to the stats of that ship to lower the Exp Velocity and modify the Sig Rad to what it is today just like the fire and cloack situation that was nerfed a while back. You cant expect this to be the 1st time this ship has been looked at by CCP.
King Rothgar Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.04.06 20:22:00 - [910] CCP Chronotis, I'm glad to see you responding fairly regularly to this now. I like the new ideas you have on it, especially bomb costs as I think that's really where the bomber's real focus should be. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I am a low sec pirate and basically can't use bombs as such. I know all about issues with aggro and how hard it can be to take everything into account. Hell, just yesterday I remote repped my own drone and got GCC for it. But I really think bombs should be added to low sec. I think the simplest solution to their use would be best, firing a bomb is a criminal act. Whether or not it hits anything would have no impact on that. Given the bomber is a glass cannon, it would make their use on gates/stations basically suicide. However they could be used in plex's, missions and so on effectively. The damage dealing bombs I don't think would be overly useful, but slamming someone with a void bomb could be handy. For the naysayers about torps, you can easily do 75% damage to a cruiser if you just hit it with a target painter or two. It really isn't a problem. Sure killing frigs is a ripe pain but I've said it before and I'll say it again, using a 20M+ isk ship to pop day old players in rookie ships really isn't a good use for any ship except another t1 frigate. And no, I'm not being preachy, I pop day old players all the time. Have a rather nice corpse collection to show for it.

Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.04.06 20:23:00 - [911] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 06/04/2009 20:26:32 Smokey, I'm not going to dis the amount of work you put into that post. You put effort into it, and that is appreciated. However, I have to point out I'm very well aware of the information contained within it. The point is that, with the current bonus's on Tranquility, a SBs cruise missiles will not do any damage to the frigates you listed above if they are at speed (which is their normal state of being). Even with the old webs, you would be hard pressed to do any significant damage to any of those frigates before it simply warped away (and in many cases, even if it didn't warp away). The current bonus's are completely wrong for killing frigates of any type, let alone ceptors. That being said, I have killed many frigates and ceptors with SB's, but most were cases of pilot error on their part... they sat still at the wrong time and paid the price, or in a few cases allowed themselves to be webbed multiple times or nossed. That is hardly a proper focus for a ship. Besides, we have numerous frigate killers to choose from that are better at the job. We will have to see how effective groups will be against BC and cruiser class ships, but I think that with scrams shutting down MWD's (at good range from an Arazu), target painting, and a number of other tactics that can be used we will find these middle sized targets to be viable. ===== Yeah, VC is back, and we have a bone to pick with you.
smokeydapot	Posted - 2009.04.06 20:41:00 - [912] Edited by: smokeydapot on 06/04/2009 20:43:25 Edited by: smokeydapot on 06/04/2009 20:42:05 I just hope these changes work I do not fancy wasting another billion on hardwiring just to find out they are changing it again. The fact of having to re train for a ship i am already good with is disapointing at the least the worst part is the cost of loads more time and hard erned isk to try out the final results and thats isk im not happy to put into my clone, ships and mods just to find out it doesnt work for me thats just even worse. This ship has always been one of opotunity and to kill those that make mistakes ( unless your in a large gang ) that to me is a win. The isk loss is something im not happy with as this could be put to better use in other areas of intrest to me.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.04.06 20:52:00 - [913] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 06/04/2009 20:55:18 Understandable, but if I were you I would consider. 1: Testing to see if you like the new flavor of SB on the test server before you sink a lot of money into it on Tranq. 2: Sell the inappropriate equipment you currently own to recoup the money, and if you don't like how your ship is currently rigged with the new equipment put it up on contract. The hardwirings will be lost if they are Cruise specific however. That way you haven't lost a significant amount of isk (except possibly on the Hardwirings), and you'll know in advance if you want to reinvest it in the revised ship. And although training on Cruise may have been a waste if you are a non-Caldari pilot, all of the support missile skills will not go amiss either way. ===== Yeah, VC is back, and we have a bone to pick with you.
Murashu Agony's End	Posted - 2009.04.06 21:02:00 - [914] Originally by: smokeydapot Edited by: smokeydapot on 06/04/2009 20:43:25 Edited by: smokeydapot on 06/04/2009 20:42:05 I just hope these changes work I do not fancy wasting another billion on hardwiring just to find out they are changing it again. The fact of having to re train for a ship i am already good with is disapointing at the least the worst part is the cost of loads more time and hard erned isk to try out the final results and thats isk im not happy to put into my clone, ships and mods just to find out it doesnt work for me thats just even worse. This ship has always been one of opotunity and to kill those that make mistakes ( unless your in a large gang ) that to me is a win. The isk loss is something im not happy with as this could be put to better use in other areas of intrest to me. I wish CCP had put as much thought into switching from cruises to torps as they are doing with bombs. It just dawned on me that not only do I have to spend a month training torps now, I also have to look into all new BPO's and start the invention/manufacturing process all over for new mods/ammo. Murashu Agony's End
smokeydapot	Posted - 2009.04.06 21:07:00 - [915] From my point of view. Speed penalty while cloacked is a fail this thing will get riped apart on gate camps. Distance from target is getting better but is far from what it can be on TQ now. Torp Velocity could do with being more ( 60 seconds or more from max range is crap to say the least ) I havent seen a bonus to the Cover ops cloack ( or is this just set as a standard for the ship being able to use it ) ? Posible win for this would be a re working of some of the missile skills ( i.e. missile bombardment, warehead upgrades ) to add bonuses to the torps aswell.
Thenoran Caldari Tranquility Industries	Posted - 2009.04.06 21:12:00 - [916] Originally by: Thenoran I'll bring it up again, splitting the two roles into the current ship, and a new one. Let's use Manticore for current role and Cormorant for the new one. --- Manticore --- 4xHigh Slot 5xMed Slot 2xLow Slot 3xLauncher Slot PG: 50 CPU: 280 Speed: 300m/s Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missile Explosion Velocity and Cruise Missile Velocity per level -20% bonus to Cruise Missile Explosion Radius per level Covert Ops Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Cruise and Bomb Kinetic damage per level 200% bonus to Cloaked Velocity per level Role Bonus: -99.5% reduction in Cruise Missile Launcher powergrid needs -100% scan resolution penalty and targeting delay Note: Can fit Bomb Launchers. OPTIONAL: Penalty: -25% rate of fire for Cruise Launchers Penalty: -70% Flight Time for Cruise Missiles Note: Can fit Covert Ops Cloak (100 CPU) with no cloaked velocity bonus applied. --- Cormorant --- 5xHigh Slot 5xMed Slot 3xLow Slot 4xLauncher Slot PG: 90 CPU: 370 Speed: 225m/s Caldari Destroyer Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to torpedo explosion velocity and flight time per level 20% bonus to torpedo velocity per level Torpedo Bomber Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Bomb Kinetic Damage per level 15% bonus to Torpedo Kinetic Damage per level Role Bonus: -99.5% reduction in Siege Missile Launcher powergrid needs -100% targeting delay after decloaking Note: Can fit Covert Cynosural Field Generators, Covert Ops Cloaks and Bomb Launchers This way we have a dedicated small ship killer which doesnt have enough damage to really hurt the big boys. And at the same time, we have your Torpedo Bomber and a new T2 Destroyer Hull. Want to add to this that four Launchers on the Cormorant is intended, it's a different and larger ship hull. Maybe it should be given a little more PG to fit an MSE or MWD & Cap Booster. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
The Merc	Posted - 2009.04.06 21:54:00 - [917] Edited by: The Merc on 06/04/2009 21:56:34 I have been reading every **** post in this thread. as many alliance mates and the majority of the people on this thread have already told you before. im gonna do this very easy for you to understand. I do not want this change to hit the Trangility. It is Unwanted. also i have trained every missile skill for stealth bomber. and you gonna **** me over the majority of those skills i have focused on. thank you. dont take me wrong, i just making sure you will read what i feel about this and see anoter negative post to this in here as i hope the majority of negative posts will make ccp think again what they are doing. if i make icecream and it gets popular and sells for millions. 5 years of gold income, then i decide to make the icecream taste something totaly different, change the ingd. couse its not what i intended. well that makes perfect sense?? well i have said what i wanted to say and thank you for reading my post.
landow calrissian	Posted - 2009.04.06 22:12:00 - [918] I like the idea of being able to warped cloaked in my SB (although it isnt really necessary as the SB is now) but it would be a good compromise to having to fight at short range. But I have to agree with a lot of the posts here that say we should have an option of using Torps OR Cruise. Maybe it could be set up so that you can fit a Cov Ops cloak and benefit from its bonuses ONLY IF you have Torp launchers fitted. Having a choice would also solve the issue that many people have (including me since I fly a SB) of being forced to adjust training plans to be able to fly the new setup. I personally am not maxed out on skills to fly a SB with Cruise launchers but I'm quite happy with my current skill level and have moved on to training for other ship classes. As a matter of fact I would probably stop flying my SB's altogether and train into an Interceptor instead and make killing SB's my primary role. Heck I would probably be able to do that in my Enyo even...lol Anyway my point is that choices should be added not taken away. We should have the choice to use Cruise Launchers without Covert Ops cloak or Torp Launchers with Cover Ops Cloak. Another point I would like to make is that I like to use my SB to rat in 0.0 because I have a somewhat easy time of getting through Gatecamps (bubbles can be tricky though) and because I can shoot and kill the rats including the frigate sized ones from almost 200km b4 any of them even get to me (usually). If I'm forced to use Torps, that will make my life hell trying to kill those same rats because of having to be so close. By the time I get through the BS rats, the frigate/destroyer sized ones will be right on top of me. I recently had a Serpentis Dominix rat get within 80 KM of me and it got a lucky hit and took me more than half way into armor in one shot.
Break Zops	Posted - 2009.04.06 22:16:00 - [919] While I am fairly indifferent to the changes that have been proposed, I can see some of the problems people are having with them. Aside from the dramatic role change(Which is easily 'fixed' with a rethinking of tactics), a big hangup players are having is their feeling of 'lost' training time. Many non-Caldari pilots have spent a considerable amount time training missile skills specifically to use the bomber effectively. As it is right now, quite a few of the missile skills people have trained in order to use cruise missiles effectively have no effect on torpedoes. The time spent training these skills can range anywhere from weeks to months if they have them maxxed out. In my opinion, changing these skills so that they affect torpedoes as well would do a lot to assuage the apprehension many bomber pilots have about this change if you intend to go through with things as posted. Obviously this will not console the people unable to think outside the box and use new tactics, but it would make the training of everything but cruise missiles useful for this new model of bomber.
Wannabehero Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2009.04.06 22:20:00 - [920] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hey Folks, Quick update before the weekend: There are some minor powergrid/cpu tweaks being tested on sisi with the next reboot. The general concept and feel with these adjustments is the choice between all out damage and ewar fits and survivability. It is possible with the latest changes to choose a medium shield extender or 400mm plate for example but you will find it difficult to fit and benefit from T2 sieges and the benefits they bring for instance. Which fit and strategy you go for is up to you but now you have a much more flexible choice depending on your scenario. We are much happier with what we have now and the choice given to you within the role of the glass cannon combined with secondary abilities of scout and such. These bombers now very much have a good place and role to fill in any gang. There is definitely a lot of winsauce with these and raw potential for the innovative amongst you. Bombs We are looking at increasing the batch count from 3 to 20 per manufacturing run. This means the material cost of bombs will be near 800k using current TQ prices. That's it for the changes being tested on sisi over the weekend with the next reboot. Please continue with the constructive feedback and we will respond further to comments and suggestions of the last few pages later. As a reminder, nothing is set in stone with these changes :) I don't want to be lewd, but my god, my pants! Awesomeness!!! /emote doing inappropriate things to the SB dev team. -- Don't harsh my mellow

Tekashi Kovacs Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.04.06 23:09:00 - [921] Edited by: Tekashi Kovacs on 06/04/2009 23:13:44 Edited by: Tekashi Kovacs on 06/04/2009 23:10:11 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: BetaZ Any chance you guys would be willing to redistribute my Cruise skills into Torps? Cruise missiles are usefull for other thigns than bomber. Changing skills is nonsense.Specially because there is alot of people that woudl want to maintain their skill as they are now. So woudl be a herculean work to ask each one of the 300k players if they want a change or not for his char. Just train torpedos.. 2 weeks won't kill anyone. Cruise missiles are not usefull for most of SB pilots for other than flying bomber things. Bah they will prolly be least used BS sized weapon system after SB "change", cause only some no-torps-yet Ravens will be left using them. Cruise Ravens are so 2003, people are playing with torps. Also you dont even need to ask players individually, you can do it automatic via one time skill swap. And yes, 2 weeks will kill me. >.>
J Valkor Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.04.06 23:33:00 - [922] 10% to flight time on top of the 20% bonus to velocity? Yummy, almost want to DL sisi to try it.
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.04.06 23:51:00 - [923] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Allowing both blink and ambush attacks would lead to a very overpowered bomber. It would be great if we could allow both strategies through module selection but this is not really possible currently so we favoured the possibilities the covert ops cloaks provides over 'blink' though think when combined with other tactics, you can still 'blink' successfully against a wide range of targets though it will be harder with the current changes we concur. You can do this. However, that would include stopping from toying with your fil idea and actually listen to people. Which you do not want at all. Solution is simple as snow in the winter: Bomb Launcher. The bombs as they are now just useless crap. Whatever bonuses you could put on them, unless they are direct damage weapon - they are crap. Just drop bombs away and replace by Citadel torps. Just citadels, or with bombs as a spare - I dont' care, but allow fitting 3 bomb launchers per ship. Place bonus on bomb launcher: -33.3% Cloaking CPU increase bonus, 5sec cloaking reactivation time increase. 3 bomb launchers = you can fit CO cloak, but it'll be 15 sec reactivation delay as intended. Here you can choose your tactic. Cruise blink or torpedo ambush. As I said, if you that inclined on denying SB any survivability, drop bonus to explosion radius to the 15-14% from current 16.6. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.04.06 23:53:00 - [924] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Murashu CCP Chronotis, Since you are ignoring those of us who are against these changes, could you please consider adding bombs in low sec? Not ignoring anyone at all and have listened and read every post, especially the critics of the idea (remember listening is not the same as agreeing with). We just have not personally responded to every post and tend to respond generally to the most common suggestions. re: bombs in low sec - not ruling it out in the future, but we have to think long and hard about the impact it has. Low sec has different rules and a different sandpit to null sec. Mixing weapons designed for null sec with low sec inst as trivial as it sounds though we can see why some of you would want it. You have already destroyed lowsec with unpenaltized unavoidable 30km disruptors. How the bombs could make things worse? -- Thanks CCP for cu
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.04.07 00:01:00 - [925] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Cruise missiles are usefull for other thigns than bomber. Changing skills is nonsense.Specially because there is alot of people that woudl want to maintain their skill as they are now. So woudl be a herculean work to ask each one of the 300k players if they want a change or not for his char. Just train torpedos.. 2 weeks won't kill anyone. Do you know any Amarr ship that could fir Cruise missiles? Or torps... after Purifier? (Yes, I do fly Amarr... Well, Khanid, if that matters) -- Thanks CCP for cu
Kagura Nikon Minmatar M. Corp	Posted - 2009.04.07 00:42:00 - [926] Originally by: Tonto Auri Originally by: Kagura Nikon Cruise missiles are usefull for other thigns than bomber. Changing skills is nonsense.Specially because there is alot of people that woudl want to maintain their skill as they are now. So woudl be a herculean work to ask each one of the 300k players if they want a change or not for his char. Just train torpedos.. 2 weeks won't kill anyone. Do you know any Amarr ship that could fir Cruise missiles? Or torps... after Purifier? (Yes, I do fly Amarr... Well, Khanid, if that matters) Apocalypse.. srry you didn't said EFFICIENTLY! Also grow up almost everybody had been forced to cross-train once or twice in this game. God forbit dyou have to train a second set of skills, while I trained Full projectiles tree (up to large arti spec V) torp spec IV, Cruise spec IV heavy drones and ll that crap... and yet I have to cross train to a second BS V skill because minmatar capitals sux so much... ...god forbid you have to crosstrain a little bit.... ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
CrestoftheStars Caldari Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2009.04.07 04:10:00 - [927] Originally by: darkmancer Don't you think the 5k alpha strike these things can put out is a little extreme? I know it's hard to apply all the damage from torps but for the cost of using a few ints with web/scramb (which you should have anyway) or a rapier even a small force will be able to insta pop bc's even bs. Hell a DD does 70k of damage - thats only around 15 bombers (not even using bombs). I can see these things killing off bs for everything except pos shoots - why lug around a bs fleet around when these things can do the job just as well (even better if you throw in a few bombs). Yes they're glass cannons but theres no way to force an engagement with ints and cloakers, they're going to be an absolute pain in the arse to hit, and can scatter in a moments notice. If they hit Tranq as they are they will be abused in the same way nanos were, blobs of forces blowing the crap out of everything they come accross while being impossible to pick off more than a couple. As soon as they start recieving damage they're warp. They're fine solo upto small groups, but start getting 10+ together eep. The range bonus is too much as well the "short" range option of 54 km's means you can operate while being extremely difficult to be tackled, basically you'll have to alpha them (possible, but difficult given the small sig and possible use of an ab). only 15 sb's O.o ... yer and then they only hit one target for that dps.. now let's try 15 ravens, or apocs, or megathorns, or lets just try 15 rifters on ONE bs and see how long time it will survive :P 15 ships is a freaking lot on one ship. almost any ship type where you put 15 ships on one ship will almost instant kill the ship, hell 15 cruisers will do around 6k+ dps, that's 70 sec, and they are better tanked, can be used for a lot more and cost around 1/25-35 to lose compared to the sb's ... soo i really don't see how you see these as overpowered, if anything i would say underpowered a bit, since 1 bs can force 2-4 sb's on the run just by using it's drones and nothing else (if it is pvp fitted, buffer). ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
CrestoftheStars Caldari Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2009.04.07 04:14:00 - [928] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Tonto Auri Originally by: Kagura Nikon Cruise missiles are usefull for other thigns than bomber. Changing skills is nonsense.Specially because there is alot of people that woudl want to maintain their skill as they are now. So woudl be a herculean work to ask each one of the 300k players if they want a change or not for his char. Just train torpedos.. 2 weeks won't kill anyone. Do you know any Amarr ship that could fir Cruise missiles? Or torps... after Purifier? (Yes, I do fly Amarr... Well, Khanid, if that matters) Apocalypse.. srry you didn't said EFFICIENTLY! Also grow up almost everybody had been forced to cross-train once or twice in this game. God forbit dyou have to train a second set of skills, while I trained Full projectiles tree (up to large arti spec V) torp spec IV, Cruise spec IV heavy drones and ll that crap... and yet I have to cross train to a second BS V skill because minmatar capitals sux so much... ...god forbid you have to crosstrain a little bit.... ... cross trained torp lvl V, (before the first uber nerf), from caldary bs V to amarr bs V (after the once again missile hit) and laser large spec 4 + full armor tank (instead of the maxed shield tank). hmm yer it have been quite annoying, and respecs should have been given when making dramatically althorings but well.. all good in the end i gues ^^ ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Trenton Napier Northern Storm	Posted - 2009.04.07 04:22:00 - [929] A needed alteration Chronotis, maybe mention. The Stealthbomber is a great ship but it's main role as a BOMBER isn't used. 7.5 mill PER bomb is outragous. Sure they're very powerful but the chances of delivering a bomb to it's target without it getting shot down is very minimal.
King Rothgar Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.04.07 04:41:00 - [930] Trenton, in his last post I think it was he mentioned they are dropping bomb cost from around 10M each to 800k by increasing production amounts from 3 per run to 20 per run or something like that. Material costs for production would of course be unchanged, so you would get 20 under the new setup for the price of 3 as they stand now.



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