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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 34 post(s)
OilSlick Rick Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.04.30 22:01:00 - [1501] I am a bit disappointed in the number of implants available for torps compared to light/heavy/cruise. Does the ZMS1....with % to "decrease in factor of target's velocity for all missiles" work with torps?
Onizuka GTO Caldari Macross crp.	Posted - 2009.04.30 22:40:00 - [1502] Originally by: OilSlick Rick I am a bit disappointed in the number of implants available for torps compared to light/heavy/cruise. Does the ZMS1....with % to "decrease in factor of target's velocity for all missiles" work with torps? I assume so, I got the ZMM and the ZML implants and they work with my torps. ==== Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death.Good Luck
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.05.01 11:19:00 - [1503] Edited by: Irida Mershkov on 01/05/2009 11:19:33 Originally by: Onizuka GTO so, let me get this straight, If you attempt to kill a single battleship alone, you will fail? If you attempt to kill a single battleship with two stealth bombers you will fail? If you attempt to kill a single battleship with five stealth bombers you will fail? If you attempt to kill a single battleship with 10 stealth bombers you will fail? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Seriously, I mean it. PLEASE CORRECT ME. Only if you're really bad at EVE... Edit: good to hear about incoming boosts and that these implants work, may ram some into my skull.
DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates	Posted - 2009.05.01 16:23:00 - [1504] CCP Chronotis Is SISI patched up yet with these new changes. Black

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2009.05.01 18:13:00 - [1505] Originally by: DNSBLACK CCP Chronotis Is SISI patched up yet with these new changes. Black Next week it should be updated with the changes. We will post here to let you know when they hit sisi.

Onizuka GTO Caldari Macross crp.	Posted - 2009.05.01 21:35:00 - [1506] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: DNSBLACK CCP Chronotis Is SISI patched up yet with these new changes. Black Next week it should be updated with the changes. We will post here to let you know when they hit sisi. yay? except I'm still a month off from sisi updating its database so that I can even use said bomber on singularity.... but....yay... can't wait for the changes...and for everyone to get back with some feedback. ==== Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death.Good Luck
place1 Amarr Orion Ore Industries	Posted - 2009.05.02 15:27:00 - [1507] To all that think the new SB is useless here are some numbers off sisi Pilot Skill Missile Bombardment 4 Missile Projection 3 Torpedoes 1 Warhead Upgrades 3 Covert ops 4 1 Ballistic Control T2 Hydraulic Bay Thruster I Rocket Fuel Cach Partition I T1 Torp's Torp Rang 64987M Max Flight Time 14.49s Lots of room for improvment here. Ship Maelstrom 0% Resistance Speed.............................0TP..............................1TP..............................2TP..............................3TP 0....................................2644.5..........................2644.5..........................2644.5..........................2644.5 Norm 117........................2644.5..........................2644.5..........................2644.5..........................2644.5 AB 285............................1265.6..........................1620.2..........................2008.8..........................2338.5 MWD 715.........................2644.5..........................2644.5..........................2644.5..........................2644.5 56% Resistance 0....................................1190.0..........................1190.0..........................1190.0..........................1190.0 AB 285.............................568.7..........................728.4............................906.5............................1052.3 77% Resistance 0....................................621.2...........................621.2...........................621.2...........................621.2 AB 285.............................296.9..........................380.3............................473.4............................549.2 84% Resistance 0....................................426.2...........................426.2...........................426.2...........................426.2 AB 285.............................203.9..........................261.0............................324.8............................375.6 As you can see damage is good as long as the resistance is not very high and the only way to reduice the damage taken by the battle ship is with a AB and even then 2-3 Target Painters will bring the damage back close to max. The use of a MWD (because of sig bloom) will cause you to take full damage as if you were not even moveing regardless of TP or not. With better skills the damage will increase even more as will range. This ship is far from useless.
Hesperius	Posted - 2009.05.02 22:29:00 - [1508] I still miss my bomber
Ashley Thomas Kiith Paktu Veneratio Venator Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.02 23:15:00 - [1509] So, we played around with bombers in our corp and were rather disappointed. As for the Anti-BS role it would take allot of bombers to make a dent (bomber had near maxed skills) One idea I've liked is making the bomb work like moon probes with proxy fuses, point your ship in the direction you want it to go and let it fly. This with long range (via flight time) could make it rather interesting, possibly even allowing the pilot to hit a camp while off grid. Side effects are defenders actually being worth something and some ships being set up as some sort of aegis boat. To keep it from getting overpowered the bomber might need to be more paper thin than it already is to encourage pilots to stay at range. Thoughts?
DeadlyBob Minmatar Woopatang Primary.	Posted - 2009.05.03 01:47:00 - [1510] Edit It is posible with max skills to fit a Purifier for range using T1 Torps of 69KM with a volley damage of 4105 at 0% resistance, Cal Navy Torps a volley of 4717 damage. T2 rage can get a range of 62KM with a volley of 5255 all at 0% resistance. Very high damage output for a Frig. This ship is far from useless. Did you actually kill anything with it? And did you survive the engagement? I've flown both, the new one has lost that loving feelin. Bring back, that loving feelin, cause it's gone gone gone, and I can't go on. whaoaho CCP I get down on my knees for you. If you would only love me, like you used to dooo yeah. we had a ship a ship, you didn't find every day. ... I'll stop now. Neither night nor day can give me purchase. Only purged dust on earth can avenge the worthless.

Amberle Vale	Posted - 2009.05.03 05:41:00 - [1511] How about stripping torps off it, giving it 2 more bomb launcher hardpoints and letting it deploy in low sec. Then you've given it an anti-blob role, something that's actually useful.
OilSlick Rick Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.05.03 11:18:00 - [1512] It isn't that is it 'useless', but that it is used-less. I honestly can't see why you should require 2-3 target painters on a BATTLESHIP in order to regain max damage.
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2009.05.03 15:59:00 - [1513] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks, A small update on some changes we are looking at making. Bomb Velocity and flight time These have been tweaked a little further with shorter flight times and increased velocities. Chiefly this is to allow for a little more potential success with bomb use. The effective range remains at 30k. Bomber signature radius These have been reduced a little and the intent being they will be slightly less vulnerable to damage. The intention is more along the lines of avoiding battleship weapons if your moving but still vulnerable to support ships. Feedback is welcome on these two changes and continuing feedback on the stealth bomber itself. You missed the bit about making the damage bombs omni-resistant to all damage types. Having to coordinate bombers is silly. I can fully appreciate not making the EW bombs dmg resistant though, that would make escape a bit too easy.
Stahanov Iv	Posted - 2009.05.03 20:22:00 - [1514] I wanna only one "new changes" - adding cruise missile variation of SB. I want combat ship not only "terrorist" variant.
CrestoftheStars Caldari Violent Force Productions	Posted - 2009.05.04 00:52:00 - [1515] couldn't we either get: close range torps with insane dps/burst dmg, or long range cruise with high dmg? seriously, why have long range torps with high dmg? what's the point in torps instead of cruise? except removing half of the support skills and implants that people can use for them.. i really don't get this change at all :/ i REALLY don't it makes no sense .... seems like some one totally messed up and now it is just like that canada episode of southpark where he refuses to admit he was wrong and everything just becomes worse... ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.04 07:04:00 - [1516] Bombers are awesome. No need for dps support hacs or battleships when you can use a 450dps frigate with covops cloak for it.
Reisenkaze	Posted - 2009.05.04 07:45:00 - [1517] I've spent the past week getting a hang of the torps and how to fly the bomber with them, and I can't think of a role for a lot of players with this. If a Drake can choose between firing Heavy Missiles and Heavy Assault Missiles, why can't SB pilots have both the option between Cruise Missiles and Torpedoes? It's unusual for me to run into a Battleship in combat in high sec unless it's a lvl 4 mission. The ability to use Bomb Launchers and Covert Ops Cloaks just seems like a concession for the change in load out. Sure these ships are decent in numbers, but that's the roll of a conventional bomber not stealth. I guess the phrase "don't fix what isn't broken" is the problem a lot of pilots are having, and while I've adapted to flying this thing, I don't like it near as much as far as usefulness and practicality. At least with Cruise Missiles there was the ability to hold out in a fight against smaller ships and have a much greater effectiveness in large formations. There are a dismally small amount of corps that rely on these ships, and won't have them in great numbers. The beauty in my opinion of EVE is the sheer amount of options you have for a ship. Granted T2 and Faction ships will have more specific roles, but that doesn't mean that there's only one way to achieve that. The SB's were fine ships as they were, probably one of the better ones out there. Why alter a good thing? If people are really unwilling to stay with the SB however, I don't blame them. I'm gonna stick with mine though and hopefully ride this out... cloaked that is.
Mad0ne Caldari Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2009.05.04 07:50:00 - [1518] Originally by: Dibsi Dei Bombers are awesome. No need for dps support hacs or battleships when you can use a 450dps frigate with covops cloak for it. One man, One little destroyer, at 130 km radius. Makes all SB-ers not to want to decloak. Thats all folks! ----------------------------------------------- Limit cloaks to cloaking ships! Or Make covert ops`s to scan prototype and improved cloaks!!!
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.04 08:12:00 - [1519] Originally by: Mad0ne Originally by: Dibsi Dei Bombers are awesome. No need for dps support hacs or battleships when you can use a 450dps frigate with covops cloak for it. One man, One little destroyer, at 130 km radius. Makes all SB-ers not to want to decloak. Thats all folks! You mean a cormorant? That's like 80dps. Mse bomber can tank that for like 40 seconds
Mad0ne Caldari Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2009.05.04 08:46:00 - [1520] Edited by: Mad0ne on 04/05/2009 08:50:28 Maybe... depends alot on SB's setup. Hey.. you can make SB permatank 60ish dps also. Point remains, you still do not want to decloak if some destroyer is around. Or interceptor... Or assault frigate, or sniper hac, or interdictor, or frigate....... you locked = almost dead. lol We have had some fleet fight also 40+vs40+ BS + bombers.. some on our side, some more on hostiles side. usually these 7-10 bombers go POP uberfast and they do not have time to even scratch somebody. The usefulness point also remains in fleet fight because SB cannot over dps BS, If a group of BS-es can remote rep eachother and tank enemy fleet then those 10 bombers wont make much difference also, cuz they go down insta. ----------------------------------------------- Limit cloaks to cloaking ships! Or Make covert ops`s to scan prototype and improved cloaks!!!

Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.04 09:34:00 - [1521] Originally by: Mad0ne Edited by: Mad0ne on 04/05/2009 08:50:28 Maybe... depends alot on SB's setup. Hey.. you can make SB permatank 60ish dps also. Point remains, you still do not want to decloak if some destroyer is around. Or interceptor... Or assault frigate, or sniper hac, or interdictor, or frigate....... you locked = almost dead. lol We have had some fleet fight also 40+vs40+ BS + bombers.. some on our side, some more on hostiles side. usually these 7-10 bombers go POP uberfast and they do not have time to even scratch somebody. The usefulness point also remains in fleet fight because SB cannot over dps BS, If a group of BS-es can remote rep eachother and tank enemy fleet then those 10 bombers wont make much difference also, cuz they go down insta. Yeah I don't know a lot about blob warfare and I guess stealth bombers die there just as fast as hacs etc. but in small gang warfare stealth bombers are irreplaceable. They work very well with good interceptor / anti-frigate support and deliver serious damage when needed from a good range. If you have seen bombers without mse they're dumbasses. MSE delivers fine buffer and gives time to take range or warp off.
Pankora t'Pastamancer	Posted - 2009.05.04 12:05:00 - [1522] Edited by: Pankora t''Pastamancer on 04/05/2009 12:15:55 Originally by: DNSBLACK The old SB was not out of balanced it was the single most balanced ship in the game and yet that is why no one wanted to fly it they couldn't find away to get a win-sauce out of it ( except for the occasional frig peek and pop). The fact is, it was a tactical pack hunting ship that required dedicated pilots and a lot skill to master not to mention team work. DNA runs bomber ops the way some alliance run cap ops. So Please stop arguing from a balance point. I can put those noobs in AF and we will be as effective but we don't want to fly them we want to fly our Cruise SB. I totally agree. My main ship went from T1 frigs, to T1 cruisers, then straight to Manticore (with plans on sharing training with Raven), and discovered that I loved my Manticore to bits. It was just such a great ship for doing so many different things, from DPS in fleet ops to scouting (covops cloak would have been helpful though), to even ratting and missions. I could fly it anywhere, and not worry about being useless in a fight. It had all the appeal of an underdog, being a small ship, had decent agility (compared to a battleship), and enough punch to finish most L4 missions. My favorite use of it was as a mini Golem (active shield tanked, tractor, salvager). The only things I would have asked for were covops cloak, just slightly more damage(option to fit torps?), and a bigger cargo hold (but now that it uses torps, it DEFINITELY needs a bigger cargo hold). I loved its flexibility and general usefulness, and I'm sure lots of people love other ships for this exact same reason. I an not nearly as fond of the new Bombers, however. While I did secretly wish for a covops cloak and torps, I feel that the new changes are a gigantic step backwards in the fun factor and general usability of this little ship. Disregarding bombs (I'm located in Empire space), who wants a ship that can only pewpew in one situation, requires a blob even in that one situation, and will likely 100% lose when matched up against literally any other ship? To add insult to injury, in that one situation of catching 1-2 lone battleships, the role of the new bombers(which require babysitting with ewar/support) can be easily replaced with torp ravens with superior results. It only requires 1 covops to act as a warp-in point for a few torp ravens cloaked somewhere, who will do even more dps than a bomber can, have drones to do something about smaller ships, and actually have more than a prayer tank. As much as I like the covops cloak, and the torp damage against battleships, I hate the new bomber, as it is totally crippled against anything smaller (especially with all those explosion radius modifiers not compatible with torps), and I see a LOT more of those smaller ships than battleships. I'm even willing to bet that I can solo-pwn the new bomber using a Helios or a Cheetah. That's pretty sad, because covops scouts are non-combat ships in my book. The firing range also feels too short for comfort now. Not everyone starts off with a max-skilled character, and being forced into web/scram/drone range with an expensive paper tank is just not that appealing at all. Sure, it has Theoretical high damage output in the ideal situation, but what is the point when most targets will cause you to do piddly-squat damage? It looks good on paper. But it's a terrible ship to fly all day, and that's what counts more. In my experience with it so far, while the ideal situation DPS has increased, I feel that my actual damage output with the bomber has decreased by about 70%, and the cargo hold size for all purposes has been halved. The torp damage does not come remotely close to making up for sucking against everything else.
honey bunchetta	Posted - 2009.05.04 12:16:00 - [1523] A frig that has a available: 600+ dps. 60km+ range. Cov-ops cloak. All without rigs or implants. You are kidding right?.
Terrakas	Posted - 2009.05.04 12:26:00 - [1524] Edited by: Terrakas on 04/05/2009 12:32:58 Originally by: honey bunchetta A frig that has a available: 600+ dps. 60km+ range. Cov-ops cloak. All without rigs or implants. You are kidding right?. Yes, of course, who is he kidding? You're not getting 600+ DPS without some expensive faction stuff fitted on that paper tank. Assuming it would fit, would you put a covops cloak and expensive faction modules on a rookie ship? My guess is no, as it'll pop too quickly. Why would you put it on this then? And that 600+DPS will probably be 100- DPS most of the time. Torps are absolutely terrible against smaller targets. Have fun watching your gangmates kill the random smaller victims while you stay helplessly cloaked close by (Afraid or Prudent? Take your pick). Or have fun doing nothing at all or getting wtfpwned without a gang. Even with the theoretical 600+ DPS, you'd probably do less total damage than a good assault frig, because dead bomber = 0 DPS. And all it takes is a gentle breeze to pop one. Everyone knows you're the easy kill. You won't be sticking around to do that 600 DPS in any situation where you matter.
honey bunchetta	Posted - 2009.05.04 12:42:00 - [1525] Originally by: Terrakas Originally by: honey bunchetta A frig that has a available: 600+ dps. 60km+ range. Cov-ops cloak. All without rigs or implants. You are kidding right?. Sort of. You're not getting 600+ DPS without some expensive faction stuff fitted on that paper tank. Assuming it would fit, would you put a covops cloak and expensive faction modules on a rookie ship? My guess is no, as it'll pop too quickly. Why would you put it on this then? And that 600+DPS will probably be 100- DPS most of the time. Torps are absolutely terrible against smaller targets. Have fun watching your gangmates fight while you do nothing. Or have fun doing nothing at all without a gang. Even with the theoretical 600+ DPS, you'd probably do less damage than a good assault frig, because dead bomber = 0 DPS. You can get around 600dps or even over it without faction mods. A frig gank gang or even a recon gank gang include many types of ships and fittings for ganking a variety of ships, now they have a frig that can hit for a close range gank hac's DPS out to 60km along with a cov ops cloak. Even if it gets reduced dps against smaller ships so what?, the ishkur AF with T2 neutrons and 5 x hobgoblin T2 drones only gets a max of 200-300dps with a 1-2km optimal for its guns.
Terrakas	Posted - 2009.05.04 12:56:00 - [1526] Edited by: Terrakas on 04/05/2009 13:06:05 Originally by: honey bunchetta A frig gank gang or even a recon gank gang include many types of ships and fittings for ganking a variety of ships, now they have a frig that can hit for a close range gank hac's DPS out to 60km along with a cov ops cloak. You missed me saying it, but an Ishkur has a godly tank compared to a bomber. The Ishkur will actually be able to stay in a fight and do the DPS where the extra DPS might actually matter (somewhat close fight). The bomber will be warping out or dying after the first volley or so, which in both cases = 0 DPS. Everyone knows you're an easier kill than a T1 frigate. Quote: Even if it gets reduced dps against smaller ships so what?, the ishkur AF with T2 neutrons and 5 x hobgoblin T2 drones only gets a max of 200-300dps with a 1-2km optimal for its guns. An Ishkur will also be able to do full damage against any target. I'm sure that Ishkur will do more DPS (unless all you ever see are lone battleships, in which case tell me where you camp because I'm coming over :P) over the course of the same time that the bomber will be around, because it will do full damage on any target. Neutrons are the icing on the cake anyway. The drones do most of the damage and can definitely go far enough before you get there. In case you don't understand the magnitude of "reduced dps", we're talking about 96% reduction against frigates. Meaning you do 4% damage, before resists. Meaning you'll probably be doing 1-2% of your total DPS. In other words, nothing. Quote: You can get around 600dps or even over it without faction mods. And no, you are not doing 600 DPS even with T2 launchers, faction torps, 3x BCU II, and maxed out skills.
honey bunchetta	Posted - 2009.05.04 14:42:00 - [1527] Edited by: honey bunchetta on 04/05/2009 14:46:54 Originally by: Terrakas Originally by: honey bunchetta A frig gank gang or even a recon gank gang include many types of ships and fittings for ganking a variety of ships, now they have a frig that can hit for a close range gank hac's DPS out to 60km along with a cov ops cloak. You missed me saying it, but an Ishkur has a godly tank compared to a bomber. The Ishkur will actually be able to stay in a fight and do the DPS where the extra DPS might actually matter (somewhat close fight). The bomber will be warping out or dying after the first volley or so, which in both cases = 0 DPS. Everyone knows you're an easier kill than a T1 frigate. The only down side for the bomber is that it does poor dmg against other frigs,.... while having a cov-ops cloak and working at ranges that makes it immune to most drones and every short range fit in the game apart from BS pulse?..... Why would it need a tank when most ships cannot even hit it?. The entire concept of bombers needs redoing as far as im concerned as CCP addedt another class of frig without realising that they had run out of roles for them and now they are stuck with trying to find one for it.
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.04 15:55:00 - [1528] Originally by: honey bunchetta The only down side for the bomber is that it does poor dmg against other frigs,.... while having a cov-ops cloak and working at ranges that makes it immune to most drones and every short range fit in the game apart from BS pulse?..... Pulses are 45km so unless it's a pulse apoc it's no problem. Bombers used to be "anti-frigate" but there was already many anti-frigate ships so CCP finally gave bombers a useful role, anti-bs. Works fine against cruisers and battlecruisers too if you have target painters.
honey bunchetta	Posted - 2009.05.04 16:32:00 - [1529] Originally by: Dibsi Dei Originally by: honey bunchetta The only down side for the bomber is that it does poor dmg against other frigs,.... while having a cov-ops cloak and working at ranges that makes it immune to most drones and every short range fit in the game apart from BS pulse?..... Pulses are 45km so unless it's a pulse apoc it's no problem. Ok so it works at a range that its immune to all non-TC boosted short range BS apart from one and outside most ships drone control range. Originally by: Dibsi Dei Bombers used to be "anti-frigate" but there was already many anti-frigate ships so CCP finally gave bombers a useful role, anti-bs. Works fine against cruisers and battlecruisers too if you have target painters. Working at the range they do with the available DPS they have vs cruisers and larger is way OP. When you add they they can cloak/uncloak every 5 secs and have a ROF of 9 secs they are unlockable by a BS and proly most BC ect as well.
Reisenkaze	Posted - 2009.05.04 17:34:00 - [1530] Edited by: Reisenkaze on 04/05/2009 17:35:48 Originally by: Dibsi Dei Originally by: honey bunchetta The only down side for the bomber is that it does poor dmg against other frigs,.... while having a cov-ops cloak and working at ranges that makes it immune to most drones and every short range fit in the game apart from BS pulse?..... Pulses are 45km so unless it's a pulse apoc it's no problem. Bombers used to be "anti-frigate" but there was already many anti-frigate ships so CCP finally gave bombers a useful role, anti-bs. Works fine against cruisers and battlecruisers too if you have target painters. It was NOT an anti-frigate ship. It's role was to bombard a target from a long range, even battleships; the target wasn't its role, how it went about destroying it was. While it's semi effective against battlecuisers, you're forgetting that once they've got a lock on you, your cloak is useless and at that point even a modest load out from a cruiser or destroyer will bring to half structure or destroyed by the time you try to warp out. The cold hard truth is how many of you have actually did anti-bs ops with a large group of these since the switch, let alone were successful?



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