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Stealth Bombers II - A new focused role

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 34 post(s)
Drahomi'r Bozi'dar	Posted - 2009.05.04 17:51:00 - [1531] So far every small gang or fleet battle ive been in after the patch the most if not all the SB's have died just after the first volley. Sure the ship may get 600 dps from torps but if you have warp just after you fire, your NOT getting 600 dps and if you stay long enough to get a second shot you just lost your ship anyways. No one here is getting near 600 dps in an actual fight cause you cant maintain sustained fire in this ship. The range is way to close, Torps need another velocity increase. Atleast equal to or just barely under what cruise missiles were doing for us before. SB's should be able to at least hit from 85-95km without Javs.
Drahomi'r Bozi'dar	Posted - 2009.05.04 17:54:00 - [1532] Oh and the friggin cloak delay needs to be 10 seconds or less. If CCP refuses to increase range, then they need to decrease the cloak time to no more then 10 seconds if not shorter. These ships are dying faster than before.
Malacay Dragonfire Rennfeuer Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.05.04 18:22:00 - [1533] the newest changes are good for better bomb use... but SBs need more Cargo also or the size of bombs should be smaller... especially for the manticore as it has the smallest cargo space of all SBs... more space or lesser cargo space need of bombs would give SBs more utility... as we could change the bomb types we want to use... right now its either i take only one type of bombs with me and can have 4 of them with me max. or i can take max 3 bombs of different types to switch between them... also the manticore has the worst attributes compared to the other SBs... Sig radius, cargo size, agility, speed... i dont see in which aspect the manticore shines more than the other SBs... which have their special forte compared to the others...
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.05.04 18:32:00 - [1534] Originally by: Drahomi'r Bozi'dar Oh and the friggin cloak delay needs to be 10 seconds or less. If CCP refuses to increase range, then they need to decrease the cloak time to no more then 10 seconds if not shorter. These ships are dying faster than before. NO. Under 10 seconds would mean it could uncloak/lock/fire/cloak/uncloak/lock/fire/recloak and all before a BS and proly BC could lock it back.
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.04 19:04:00 - [1535] Originally by: Malacay Dragonfire also the manticore has the worst attributes compared to the other SBs... Sig radius, cargo size, agility, speed... i dont see in which aspect the manticore shines more than the other SBs... which have their special forte compared to the others... Manticore has the best cpu which helps fitting quite a lot. Especially if using t2 siege launchers. I agree the sig is quite big but ccp is already looking into it.
Abram Enroch	Posted - 2009.05.04 22:25:00 - [1536] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Drahomi'r Bozi'dar Oh and the friggin cloak delay needs to be 10 seconds or less. If CCP refuses to increase range, then they need to decrease the cloak time to no more then 10 seconds if not shorter. These ships are dying faster than before. NO. Under 10 seconds would mean it could uncloak/lock/fire/cloak/uncloak/lock/fire/recloak and all before a BS and proly BC could lock it back. Hello Nice to meet you That was the tank, you know, unless you fitted an actual tank instead of boosters/dampeners or bcu's. Or unless you have a horde of 10 SBs, and are ok with losing a couple in exchange for a BS kill. Ah whatever.. I'm already sold this char so I dont care anymore. Have fun with the new focused role.
place1 Amarr Orion Ore Industries	Posted - 2009.05.05 04:53:00 - [1537] Originally by: OilSlick Rick It isn't that is it 'useless', but that it is used-less. I honestly can't see why you should require 2-3 target painters on a BATTLESHIP in order to regain max damage. If you look at my numbers the only time you actually need any TP is if that ship is using a AB anything else and you do full damage and yes I feel that is how it should be AB are great for reducing missile damage and to be able to counter an AB with 2-3 painters is not very hard to do. Most bombers can easily fit 2 painters them self's if they chose to.
Onizuka GTO Caldari Macross crp.	Posted - 2009.05.05 11:27:00 - [1538] Originally by: place1 If you look at my numbers the only time you actually need any TP is if that ship is using a AB anything else and you do full damage and yes I feel that is how it should be AB are great for reducing missile damage and to be able to counter an AB with 2-3 painters is not very hard to do. Most bombers can easily fit 2 painters them self's if they chose to. Full damage?! It seems that you haven't checked your numbers correctly. There is absolutely no chance of torpedoes doing full damage on a Battleship, at all. The torpedoes are so crippled it can only do a maximum damage 77% when the target is moving, regardless of afterburners or mwding. its all due to it's explosive signature radius, its so big, it's impossible. ==== Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death.Good Luck
Random Womble Minmatar Emo Rangers Electric Monkey Overlords	Posted - 2009.05.05 11:31:00 - [1539] Having used stealth bombers in gangs post patch i have gone from hating them to being happy with them.
Vigaz	Posted - 2009.05.05 11:37:00 - [1540] To the SB changes: SB cargo is too small for torp and bomb. Is it possible to investigate a size reduction for bombs? [whine mode on] I would like to share few consideration about torps: 450 sig for a t1 torp is a bit too much imo (T2 Rage torps are just insane). CCP raised about 18 month ago that value from 400 to avoid the use of this weapon as master of PvE (along with the RoF buff and range nerf); QR patch is very aggressive with torps (and unguided missiles in general). SIG and EXP velocity are now both taken in consideration for damage calculation. New SB has a 100% velocity explosion bonus for torps (there isn't a module to get same type of bonus, so SB is uber unique ;) ) but still same BSs will be able to mitigate the damage via speed/sig. This means that using torps into a BS is just stupid without the explosion velocity bonus of the SB. Torps from SB are effective against BS and BC; smaller ship only if webbed with MWD on (SB bonus for torp range & SB agility/speed/Coc allows you to shoot targets almost everywhere in grid if they are tackled). Torps from BS are effective only against stationary BS and only into 27-28km range (with Raven bonus) and only 18-19km with a Typhoon. Torpedo needs same love. [Whine mode off] Vigaz

BetaZ Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.05 19:59:00 - [1541] Edited by: BetaZ on 05/05/2009 20:01:34 Chronotis (and CCP), this is what happens when you make unilateral changes with total disregard to your customers. Your GMs didn't even care about my requests for skills redistributions. (FYI, both of my SB toons are sold now...I'll be disappearing soon, too. Too bad I still have 300+ days on each of my accounts!) Tea Bag CCP! I hope in the future you (CCP) don't make drastic changes like this (and many others in the past). It is good Business 101 to add features, not take away and cause greater griefs.
place1 Amarr Orion Ore Industries	Posted - 2009.05.06 04:46:00 - [1542] Originally by: Onizuka GTO Originally by: place1 If you look at my numbers the only time you actually need any TP is if that ship is using a AB anything else and you do full damage and yes I feel that is how it should be AB are great for reducing missile damage and to be able to counter an AB with 2-3 painters is not very hard to do. Most bombers can easily fit 2 painters them self's if they chose to. Full damage?! It seems that you haven't checked your numbers correctly. There is absolutely no chance of torpedoes doing full damage on a Battleship, at all. The torpedoes are so crippled it can only do a maximum damage 77% when the target is moving, regardless of afterburners or mwding. its all due to it's explosive signature radius, its so big, it's impossible. ?? I don't know were you are getting this information from but it seams to be completely incorrect. Maybe its true for normal battle ships using torps but on the stealth bomber this is not true. In my testing agents a Maelstrom I did my max damage most of the time. Max damage for that char at the time was 2644.5 and as you can see if the ship is not moving I did full damage agene if the ship was moving under normal power at max speed 117m/s I still did full damage even without a single TP. The same was true for if the ship was using a MWD moving at full speed 715m/s still no TP was needed to get full damage that I could do. The only way I didn't do full damage was once the AB was turned on and moving at max speed 285m/s. It is my guess that if I were able to get a 4th TP on the BS even with the AB I would be back to full damage and 2-3 TP got me near full damage. So agene I don't know were your getting that information from that Torp's cant do max damage ever but its just not true for a stealth bomber. Now I don't fly missile boats so maybe that's true for a raven I don't know but this threads not about a raven its about the SB. Please do tell me were you got that information from or on what BS it is true I would like to test it. Also this Maelstrom had a base sig of 460m that was with no sig increasing modules on the ship. torps have a sig radius of 450m. My next test will be a tier 1 BS but I am expecting to find near same results with maybe the exception of needing at least 1 TP all the time.
Mad0ne Caldari Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2009.05.06 08:01:00 - [1543] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Drahomi'r Bozi'dar Oh and the friggin cloak delay needs to be 10 seconds or less. If CCP refuses to increase range, then they need to decrease the cloak time to no more then 10 seconds if not shorter. These ships are dying faster than before. NO. Under 10 seconds would mean it could uncloak/lock/fire/cloak/uncloak/lock/fire/recloak and all before a BS and proly BC could lock it back. Get a clue already! You do know that IF YOU CLOAK then torps wont do any damage? Thank CCP for that! ----------------------------------------------- Limit cloaks to cloaking ships! Or Make covert ops`s to scan prototype and improved cloaks!!!
place1 Amarr Orion Ore Industries	Posted - 2009.05.06 08:38:00 - [1544] Originally by: Mad0ne Originally by: Murina Originally by: Drahomi'r Bozi'dar Oh and the friggin cloak delay needs to be 10 seconds or less. If CCP refuses to increase range, then they need to decrease the cloak time to no more then 10 seconds if not shorter. These ships are dying faster than before. NO. Under 10 seconds would mean it could uncloak/lock/fire/cloak/uncloak/lock/fire/recloak and all before a BS and proly BC could lock it back. Get a clue already! You do know that IF YOU CLOAK then torps wont do any damage? Thank CCP for that! And at 10 seconds that almost full flight time of the torp and if your going to be blinking you don't need to be faraway 10 seconds is somewhere from 40 - 50 KM with normal T1 torps and you could easily blink form 20 - 30 KM. No 10 seconds is not needed the ship can fire from out side drone range the way it is (Drones = #1 threat) and can keep good enough speed/transversal to not get hit by guns. Also you can still technically Blink with the 15 sec recloak though its much more difficult damps on a BS will give you over 20 seconds before they lock.
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.06 10:11:00 - [1545] I don't understand the whine in this thread. Stealth Bombers are awesome now and I don't want them changed in any way. We have been killing so much stuff in Providence with interceptors and stealth bombers. I have only lost a couple of hounds so far and both of them my fault.
Drahomi'r Bozi'dar	Posted - 2009.05.06 15:12:00 - [1546] The battleships arent the issue, at that range its the inty's that can run ya down before you can ever cloak even a Vagabond is death. Now take into the account of smaller ships with longer range guns. A Cerb with heavy missile launchers can lock ya quick and hit you from over 100km away.. Anything under 70 is drone bait which War 2's have shown to drop SB's within seconds. Most every fight ive been in if the enemy brings a SB in, he almost always goes home in a pod. Which is why i sold all of my Bombers. As for a person above, yes the manticore does suck, larger sig radius, slower speed, slower locking time and even less damage dps wise and volley compared to all the other SB's not to mention even less hp's. Its a craptastic ship. Also no SB can uncloak,lock fire rinse and repeat over and over, you have to allow travel time. Torps are slower than cruise missiles so there for even more time. 10 secs allows to hopefully get a shot off and have it land before you get blown up. When we had cruise missiles on this, we had a quicker cloak time and the missiles traveled faster. Omg so unfair !! Its just putting them back to what was right. Atleast with cruise missiles you can hit every type of ship. Torps you cant, so with a closer range and even an easier time for the enemy to kill you, why not give them a buff?? Surely warping in, firing a volley and having to warp out right after and praying your not gonna get killed which now most are is sooooo effective when trying to maintain decent damage on a BS. The new version has flaws that need to be fixed. Less we forget the final product came to us without the game population being able to test it, and magically it was internally tested for umm a day before release. Now they are still making changes because even a blind man can see it wasnt ready to go live The devs know that but wont admit to it. So yes i am ranting, but when you screw up the only reason i ever considered playing this game for, you best believe i wont stop till those changes are satisfactory.
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.06 15:46:00 - [1547] Originally by: Drahomi'r Bozi'dar The battleships arent the issue, at that range its the inty's that can run ya down before you can ever cloak even a Vagabond is death. Now take into the account of smaller ships with longer range guns. A Cerb with heavy missile launchers can lock ya quick and hit you from over 100km away.. Anything under 70 is drone bait which War 2's have shown to drop SB's within seconds. Most every fight ive been in if the enemy brings a SB in, he almost always goes home in a pod. Which is why i sold all of my Bombers. As for a person above, yes the manticore does suck, larger sig radius, slower speed, slower locking time and even less damage dps wise and volley compared to all the other SB's not to mention even less hp's. Its a craptastic ship. Also no SB can uncloak,lock fire rinse and repeat over and over, you have to allow travel time. Torps are slower than cruise missiles so there for even more time. 10 secs allows to hopefully get a shot off and have it land before you get blown up. When we had cruise missiles on this, we had a quicker cloak time and the missiles traveled faster. Omg so unfair !! Its just putting them back to what was right. Atleast with cruise missiles you can hit every type of ship. Torps you cant, so with a closer range and even an easier time for the enemy to kill you, why not give them a buff?? Surely warping in, firing a volley and having to warp out right after and praying your not gonna get killed which now most are is sooooo effective when trying to maintain decent damage on a BS. The new version has flaws that need to be fixed. Less we forget the final product came to us without the game population being able to test it, and magically it was internally tested for umm a day before release. Now they are still making changes because even a blind man can see it wasnt ready to go live The devs know that but wont admit to it. So yes i am ranting, but when you screw up the only reason i ever considered playing this game for, you best believe i wont stop till those changes are satisfactory. I don't understand. What kind of battles are you trying to fight with a stealth bomber that you magically die instantly? Surely a vagabond or cerberus can be a problem for any frigate. But when you are that fragile against other frigates and warrior ii's you should really think about the whole engagement and your fit. Try to have some anti-frigate support with you and fit a buffer on your stealth bomber. SB's have much improved fitting than before the buff. Easily fits MSE for example. Manticore is good in it's own way, it has the best cpu and good mid slots. Signature radius problem is being looked at by CCP. SB's doesn't need to uncloak, fire and cloak. When you look at where you are on the grid try to keep range to your target and other harmful ships and stay aligned so you can escape if needed. Bombers have a nice 55km range with t1 torps. If you really need to engage some wtfomg100manblob you can launch a bomb and warp off. What other ship would survive engaging huge fleets anyway?
Onizuka GTO Caldari Macross crp.	Posted - 2009.05.06 16:26:00 - [1548] Originally by: Dibsi Dei If you really need to engage some wtfomg100manblob you can launch a bomb and warp off. What other ship would survive engaging huge fleets anyway? ...except in low sec space, where it's not a bomb bomber but a torpedo torpedoer.. ==== Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death.Good Luck
Drahomi'r Bozi'dar	Posted - 2009.05.06 17:05:00 - [1549] Just as the man above me said, bombs cant be used anywhere else but in 0.0 Alot of us sit in high or in my case low sec. I have yet to see a battleship fly anywhere without support ships. Inties or hacs are almost always where ever a battleship goes unless that group is just plain stupid. Any sensible fleet will have most everyone carrying a web or warp scram. So it leaves the smaller ships free to do what ever. As fort launching a bomb, well corps or allainces wont find it too nice when they are being bombed by their own people to try and kill frigate sized ships, because your going to hit them too. Oh and you have to be max 30km out for those. Yep we can be aligned and fire when we uncloak but you barely have enough time before the torps hit to warp out. Which when you have to warp out then what ever dps you thought you had with a SB goes out the door. Only use for bombers now are gate camps.. Weeee so much fun to be tied to one roll where you have the best chance to not be drone bait or inty bait. Now with bombers carrying torps, people are quick to take them out. Which is the whole reason why we need longer range, because a stealth bomber shouldnt be the pretty much the weakest ship in game when it comes to taking hits. Now putting them that close is just suicide at best.. No thanks
Murashu Agony's End	Posted - 2009.05.06 20:09:00 - [1550] Edited by: Murashu on 06/05/2009 20:09:31 I guess I need a class in how target painters interact with missiles cause during all the testing I have done I am seeing no gain from using a TP. I'm a faction warfare pilot therefore I will never get to use bombs so once again I find myself trying to make a meaningful impact with my Hound. I fit a Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron for the 30% sig radius bonus and used my friends caracal alt for target practice. I just got Torp 4 and was still using 3 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launchers and Caldari Navy Bane Torpedos. We started out with the caracal sitting still outside the station and my first volley hit for 573 with no target painter. I thought ok this isn't so bad so I turned on the TP and expected to see something change but the next volley hit for 573 as well. I docked up, put on another TP and shot him with both TPs on for...573. So I assume 573 is the max I can hit that cruiser with that setup and my current skills. If that is the case, what is the point of having a target painter and ensuring the target is webbed? From further testing it appears that my TP only benefits me if the target is moving. Since the new intended target of the SB is Battleships or larger, all it takes is one person webbing an already slow moving BS to make the TP useless. I'm still waiting for the day that CCP admits they should have made a new ship for the new role and left my beloved SB alone. Everytime I fly the new SB in FW it just makes me miss the old one more and more. In the last 2 months of FW I have only shot at one BC (in my frigate) and zero BS so the new SB just doesn't see any action. Murashu Agony's End

Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.06 21:01:00 - [1551] Originally by: Onizuka GTO Originally by: Dibsi Dei If you really need to engage some wtfomg100manblob you can launch a bomb and warp off. What other ship would survive engaging huge fleets anyway? ...except in low sec space, where it's not a bomb bomber but a torpedo torpedoer.. Why would you engage a 100 man blob in lowsec in a frigate.
Onizuka GTO Caldari Macross crp.	Posted - 2009.05.06 22:45:00 - [1552] Originally by: Dibsi Dei Originally by: Onizuka GTO Originally by: Dibsi Dei If you really need to engage some wtfomg100manblob you can launch a bomb and warp off. What other ship would survive engaging huge fleets anyway? ...except in low sec space, where it's not a bomb bomber but a torpedo torpedoer.. Why would you engage a 100 man blob in lowsec in a frigate. ...because not 100% of "100 man blob" occur in null sec space? Either way, why would a single frigate engage a fleet of that size alone in either low or null sec, unless they have a suicide urge? ==== Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death.Good Luck
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.06 23:17:00 - [1553] Originally by: Onizuka GTO Either way, why would a single frigate engage a fleet of that size alone in either low or null sec, unless they have a suicide urge? I dunno, in null sec it is possible with dropping a bomb and warping off. Seriously though stop whining about stealth bombers. We wtfbbq ships of all kind with stealth bomber support in our every op.
Onizuka GTO Caldari Macross crp.	Posted - 2009.05.07 00:15:00 - [1554] Originally by: Dibsi Dei I dunno, in null sec it is possible with dropping a bomb and warping off. Seriously though stop whining about stealth bombers. We wtfbbq ships of all kind with stealth bomber support in our every op. But why do a pointless and suicidal action as to attack a blob of such size that would do nothing but annoy them? seriously stop defending about stealth bombers. Just because you have a success in using the bomber in one kind of situation where any type of ship can also perform just as well doesn't mean it is justified to change an established ship type with an a completely difference weapon system and attributes without prior testing. ==== Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death.Good Luck
place1 Amarr Orion Ore Industries	Posted - 2009.05.07 02:41:00 - [1555] Originally by: Onizuka GTO Originally by: Dibsi Dei I dunno, in null sec it is possible with dropping a bomb and warping off. Seriously though stop whining about stealth bombers. We wtfbbq ships of all kind with stealth bomber support in our every op. But why do a pointless and suicidal action as to attack a blob of such size that would do nothing but annoy them? seriously stop defending about stealth bombers. Just because you have a success in using the bomber in one kind of situation where any type of ship can also perform just as well doesn't mean it is justified to change an established ship type with an a completely difference weapon system and attributes without prior testing. You have a point CCP should have made this SB a new ship class (I suggested somewhere around page 2-3 that it should have been a destroyer hull and call it heavy bomber as did many other people) but CCP didn't do that they replaced the old SB that many liked however that does not mean the new SB is crap. The new SB is anything but crap it works very well for its new intended role of killing Large sig, slower moving ships IE battleships, battle cruisers, and POS gun's.
place1 Amarr Orion Ore Industries	Posted - 2009.05.07 03:14:00 - [1556] Edited by: place1 on 07/05/2009 03:19:27 Originally by: Drahomi'r Bozi'dar The battleships arent the issue, at that range its the inty's that can run ya down before you can ever cloak even a Vagabond is death. Now take into the account of smaller ships with longer range guns. A Cerb with heavy missile launchers can lock ya quick and hit you from over 100km away.. Anything under 70 is drone bait which War 2's have shown to drop SB's within seconds. Most every fight ive been in if the enemy brings a SB in, he almost always goes home in a pod. Which is why i sold all of my Bombers. As for a person above, yes the manticore does suck, larger sig radius, slower speed, slower locking time and even less damage dps wise and volley compared to all the other SB's not to mention even less hp's. Its a craptastic ship. Also no SB can uncloak,lock fire rinse and repeat over and over, you have to allow travel time. Torps are slower than cruise missiles so there for even more time. 10 secs allows to hopefully get a shot off and have it land before you get blown up. When we had cruise missiles on this, we had a quicker cloak time and the missiles traveled faster. Omg so unfair !! Its just putting them back to what was right. Atleast with cruise missiles you can hit every type of ship. Torps you cant, so with a closer range and even an easier time for the enemy to kill you, why not give them a buff?? Surely warping in, firing a volley and having to warp out right after and praying your not gonna get killed which now most are is sooooo effective when trying to maintain decent damage on a BS. The new version has flaws that need to be fixed. Less we forget the final product came to us without the game population being able to test it, and magically it was internally tested for umm a day before release. Now they are still making changes because even a blind man can see it wasnt ready to go live The devs know that but wont admit to it. So yes i am ranting, but when you screw up the only reason i ever considered playing this game for, you best believe i wont stop till those changes are satisfactory. And Intys's, Frigs, Destroyers, and yes in some cases even cruisers are also not the issue they are the ships that are suppose to be able to kill SB. SB role is kill large sig ships. IE battleships and Battle Cruisers and that's done in a frig size ship the counter is to use small fast ships. You say a Vaga is death and maybe that's true I will test later however I have the feeling that's not going to be true 100% of the time like you suggest. Vagabond has a sig of 115m if there using a MWD there sig is 575m that's larger than the torp sig by 125m so there is a reduction in what effect its speed has on it already. You add a couple TP on to that and sig get very big very fast meaning that vaga is going to take large damage from the torps while it is closing in. 1 TP will jump a MWD vaga sig up to 747.5m a couple of TP and 2-3 volleys will likely kill that vaga or force him to disengage. As for Torp speed you need to actually test this ship out for Torp speed is just as fast if not faster then cruise missiles were. Cruise missile base speed is 3750m/s with skills that probably somewhere around 4500m/s (I cant get number right now at work so taking a guess at there max speed.) however Torps that I was using for test which was not max skill were traveling at 4485m/s basically the same speed your cruise missiles traveled at. Some how I think your trying to use this ship in Blob fights and that's not were this ship should be used its should be used in small gangs if your trying to fight in blobs with this ship there is other ships that are much better for that, however small gangs is were this ship shines. Edit Spelling.
place1 Amarr Orion Ore Industries	Posted - 2009.05.07 03:36:00 - [1557] Originally by: Murashu Edited by: Murashu on 06/05/2009 20:09:31 I guess I need a class in how target painters interact with missiles cause during all the testing I have done I am seeing no gain from using a TP. I'm a faction warfare pilot therefore I will never get to use bombs so once again I find myself trying to make a meaningful impact with my Hound. I fit a Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron for the 30% sig radius bonus and used my friends caracal alt for target practice. I just got Torp 4 and was still using 3 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launchers and Caldari Navy Bane Torpedos. We started out with the caracal sitting still outside the station and my first volley hit for 573 with no target painter. I thought ok this isn't so bad so I turned on the TP and expected to see something change but the next volley hit for 573 as well. I docked up, put on another TP and shot him with both TPs on for...573. So I assume 573 is the max I can hit that cruiser with that setup and my current skills. If that is the case, what is the point of having a target painter and ensuring the target is webbed? From further testing it appears that my TP only benefits me if the target is moving. Since the new intended target of the SB is Battleships or larger, all it takes is one person webbing an already slow moving BS to make the TP useless. I'm still waiting for the day that CCP admits they should have made a new ship for the new role and left my beloved SB alone. Everytime I fly the new SB in FW it just makes me miss the old one more and more. In the last 2 months of FW I have only shot at one BC (in my frigate) and zero BS so the new SB just doesn't see any action. I would need some more information the help you with your TP problem but there is something is not right there a caracal has base sig of 145m well under the sig of torps 450m so there is a large reduction in damage however depending on how that caracal was fit it could have had a much larger than base sig to start with but if that were the case you should have been doing more volley damage than that unless you were doing a damage he was highly resistant to. TP are useful in the sense that if you increase a ships sig enough you can totally nullify the targets speed. meaning it does not madder how fast the ship is moving it would still take full damage. This is much harder to do the smaller the ship is. TP fitted on SB are there version of fitting a web.
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.07 05:44:00 - [1558] Originally by: Onizuka GTO Originally by: Dibsi Dei I dunno, in null sec it is possible with dropping a bomb and warping off. Seriously though stop whining about stealth bombers. We wtfbbq ships of all kind with stealth bomber support in our every op. But why do a pointless and suicidal action as to attack a blob of such size that would do nothing but annoy them? seriously stop defending about stealth bombers. Just because you have a success in using the bomber in one kind of situation where any type of ship can also perform just as well doesn't mean it is justified to change an established ship type with an a completely difference weapon system and attributes without prior testing. But any type of ship doesn't perform just as well as stealth bombers. No other frigate delivers 500dps to 50km. That is why they are irreplaceable in small gangs and I love them.
OilSlick Rick Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.05.07 06:19:00 - [1559] Originally by: Dibsi Dei Originally by: Onizuka GTO Originally by: Dibsi Dei I dunno, in null sec it is possible with dropping a bomb and warping off. Seriously though stop whining about stealth bombers. We wtfbbq ships of all kind with stealth bomber support in our every op. But why do a pointless and suicidal action as to attack a blob of such size that would do nothing but annoy them? seriously stop defending about stealth bombers. Just because you have a success in using the bomber in one kind of situation where any type of ship can also perform just as well doesn't mean it is justified to change an established ship type with an a completely difference weapon system and attributes without prior testing. But any type of ship doesn't perform just as well as stealth bombers. No other frigate delivers 500dps to 50km. That is why they are irreplaceable in small gangs and I love them. 500 dps on grid the entire fight with 'proper support' (ew/sd, web, tp) I assume?
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.07 07:10:00 - [1560] Originally by: OilSlick Rick 500 dps on grid the entire fight with 'proper support' (ew/sd, web, tp) I assume? Yea, stealth bombers need buddies for support. That's what makes it fun.



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