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Mystafyre Caldari Malevolent Evolution The Church.	Posted - 2009.04.01 16:45:00 - [1] Rockets need some love from CCP. Give Caldari a chance to have fun with rockets! Come one, maxed out skills, 3x BCU T2 at lows, crow can make little over 110 dps with faction rockets! It really can't fit those 3x BCU because CPU ends when you try to fit the second lol. BUFF ROCKETS AND CPU ON CROW!! Blaster taranis does like 250 dps!!
Tykkis	Posted - 2009.04.01 16:55:00 - [2] hehe. don't compare ceptors to taranis. it's it's own class of ships called fotm. but rockets do royally suck!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2009.04.01 16:58:00 - [3] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/04/2009 16:58:49 Use railguns on a crow. Rockets are for wussies. --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
Mr Perkins	Posted - 2009.04.01 17:00:00 - [4] I am completely in favor of this, as long as rockets travel no further than 1 km!
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.04.01 17:55:00 - [5] Originally by: Mr Perkins I am completely in favor of this, as long as rockets travel no further than 1 km! And to compensate this, Ranis shouldnt go faster then 1m/s.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Limited Liability Corp	Posted - 2009.04.01 19:14:00 - [6] I agree... rockets need buffed somehow. I keep seeing ships that are "meant" to use rockets, like the Malediction, Vengeance, and Condor. Now I know there are more ships than that... but almost all the others have bonuses for "missiles", which would apply to rockets as well. But a bonus which explicitly says "rockets" only applies to those. Rockets are a waste of time currently. If that is the only means of DPS, then you might as well try and tickle them to death. Anyone who has a bonus to "missiles" certainly isn't going to fit rockets when there are better out there. The only time I've considered using rockets was when I wanted something to draw aggro for my drone boat. And then I found out that even a Civie gun will work, and recycled the rockets and launcher instead. Rockets either need something significant to inspire their usage, or they need to go away. --- *Players aren't interested in Variety, they only want THE BEST.*
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.04.01 19:17:00 - [7] FYI Crow does not get a rocket bonus.
CrimsonLobo Caldari Galaxy Punks Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.04.01 19:25:00 - [8] I miss the days of plated rocket Crows :(
Mystafyre Caldari Malevolent Evolution The Church.	Posted - 2009.04.01 22:04:00 - [9] Originally by: Dirk Magnum FYI Crow does not get a rocket bonus. So? I was making a point about rockets, not what bonuses Crow has. I have flown the blasteranis and it's pure sex, like Ishkur. Back in days torpedoes had massive range. Then they buffed the actual dmg and dropped the range, to make them as heavy hitting close range weapon system for Caldari, like autocannons, blasters and pulses. That was good change. When compared small autocannons, blasters and pulses, rockets just are awfull. Range is best of them, but damage is really weak. Call me crazy, but I would rather take some range away from rockets and raise the damage. You ain't shooting outside web range in blaster taranis eather.
Linnth Amarr Darkill Corp	Posted - 2009.04.01 22:26:00 - [10] So true. Flying a Vengeance, Malediction or Heretic and actually fitting rockets is next to a comedy fit. ------------------- Amarr: Getting screwed since 2005!

A'ruhn Caldari Intergalactic Spacegoats Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.01 22:59:00 - [11] This is why my rocket spec skillbook is languishing in my hangar, untrained. I want a reason to train it...
4 LOM United Gamers	Posted - 2009.04.01 23:31:00 - [12] Edited by: 4 LOM on 01/04/2009 23:31:37 Originally by: A'ruhn This is why my rocket spec skillbook is languishing in my hangar, untrained. I want a reason to train it... my rocket spec is trained to level 5..... think about how i feel? Rockets suck ass, not only on a pure dps perspective there explosion veolicty is as slow as a heavy missile (16m/s slower then a heavy assault missile) Why on earth does a weapon system for slow fast ships suck at hitting anything fast and do no dps to anything slow? Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
Vyllana	Posted - 2009.04.02 00:32:00 - [13] Yeah rockets need a major boost. Damage and explosion velocity both need a big boost, range can be cut a bit if necessary.
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2009.04.02 10:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Dirk Magnum FYI Crow does not get a rocket bonus. FYI, it does.
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2009.04.02 10:57:00 - [15] Rockets are fine if you know how to use them.
fkingfurious	Posted - 2009.04.02 11:02:00 - [16] It is totally laughable that the explosion velocity of a rockt should be lower than that of a HAM. I mean seriously, WTF is going on with that? If they fixed that and maybe gave them a modest damage boost they'd be viable weapons. Theyre never gonna be top DPS weapon systems but they've got better range than other close range frigate weapons and even at point blank range the fact that they don't need to worry about transversal is a definite plus.
Adaera	Posted - 2009.04.02 11:22:00 - [17] Agreed. The only ship in the game where rockets are any good is on the Kestrel, and that's with a 50% damage bonus Doesn't that say anything to CCP? ___________________ I for one welcome our new bee overlords
Marcus Gideon Gallente Limited Liability Corp	Posted - 2009.04.02 13:05:00 - [18] Originally by: Faffywaffy Originally by: Dirk Magnum FYI Crow does not get a rocket bonus. FYI, it does. FYI... the Crow doesn't get a "rocket" bonus, it gets a missile bonus. And anyone who chooses to fit rockets instead of something actually useful... needs counseling and medication. --- *Players aren't interested in Variety, they only want THE BEST.*
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.04.02 13:39:00 - [19] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Originally by: Faffywaffy Originally by: Dirk Magnum FYI Crow does not get a rocket bonus. FYI, it does. FYI... the Crow doesn't get a "rocket" bonus, it gets a missile bonus. And anyone who chooses to fit rockets instead of something actually useful... needs counseling and medication. FYI, it does. Because rockets are missiles.
Linnth Amarr Darkill Corp	Posted - 2009.04.02 18:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Faffywaffy Rockets are fine if you know how to use them. lol, just because you got lucky against two noobs doesn't mean rockets are good. ------------------- Amarr: Getting screwed since 2005!

Faffywaffy	Posted - 2009.04.02 18:38:00 - [21] Originally by: Linnth Originally by: Faffywaffy Rockets are fine if you know how to use them. lol, just because you got lucky against two noobs doesn't mean rockets are good. I regularly get lucky against all kinds of newbs. The rocket crow, when properly fitted and flown is on par with a pulse crusader.
Master Technique Club Bear Turbo.	Posted - 2009.04.02 19:23:00 - [22] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Marcus Gideon Originally by: Faffywaffy Originally by: Dirk Magnum FYI Crow does not get a rocket bonus. FYI, it does. FYI... the Crow doesn't get a "rocket" bonus, it gets a missile bonus. And anyone who chooses to fit rockets instead of something actually useful... needs counseling and medication. FYI, it does. Because rockets are missiles. I wan't sure, so I checked it in EFT...sure enough, the Crow DOES get a dmg bonus for kinetic rockets. I also agree though that a rocket buff would be cool. Anything to create more viable options in pvp is great. ________________ Master Technique Latest Video:Never Gunna Stop
Linnth Amarr Darkill Corp	Posted - 2009.04.02 22:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Faffywaffy I regularly get lucky against all kinds of newbs. The rocket crow, when properly fitted and flown is on par with a pulse crusader. Right, that's what we're trying to say: A Rocket-Crow, fit properly will enable you to get lucky against random noobs. But that's it... ------------------- Amarr: Getting screwed since 2005!
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2009.04.03 09:08:00 - [24] Originally by: Linnth Originally by: Faffywaffy I regularly get lucky against all kinds of newbs. The rocket crow, when properly fitted and flown is on par with a pulse crusader. Right, that's what we're trying to say: A Rocket-Crow, fit properly will enable you to get lucky against random noobs. But that's it... Wooosh.
Tozmeister Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.04.03 14:52:00 - [25] Originally by: Faffywaffy I regularly get lucky against all kinds of newbs. The rocket crow, when properly fitted and flown is on par with a pulse crusader. It is, is it? +++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.04.03 15:07:00 - [26] Edited by: Gypsio III on 03/04/2009 15:11:15 Originally by: Tozmeister Originally by: Faffywaffy I regularly get lucky against all kinds of newbs. The rocket crow, when properly fitted and flown is on par with a pulse crusader. It is, is it? That's not a rocket Crow. Actually, I've been playing with Rocket Crow on Sisi lately, Once webbed and scrambled, an inty target is going sufficiently slowly to take ~full damage from rockets, and there's no real worry about ABs, unlike when rockets are used against T1 frigs/AFs. The Crow is a bit short on EHP - I suspect that a Malediction would be a better choice, despite its lower DPS - but it's been enough for me to win the three inty 1v1s I've had - even though I've no experience of interceptors outside tackling mission runners. Admittedly, two of those fights were easy kills of blaster Taranisesii, and so not very meaningful. But another was against a railRanis which died when I was in minimal armour. From EFTing numbers I hadn't expected to win that one... maybe I wasn't modelling its tracking or ammo choice properly. Hmmm.
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2009.04.03 15:45:00 - [27] Edited by: Faffywaffy on 03/04/2009 15:48:09 Originally by: Tozmeister Originally by: Faffywaffy I regularly get lucky against all kinds of newbs. The rocket crow, when properly fitted and flown is on par with a pulse crusader. It is, is it? Umm, you need to clean your monitor. That's not a rocket crow. You should have linked this, but what the killmail doesn't say is that the crusader was at 20% structure when I popped. I didn't say it was better -- I said it was on par. If I had fit a gun instead of that salvager, I would have most likely won that fight.
Tozmeister Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.04.03 17:11:00 - [28] This is the one i meant to link Also,you've lost twice in a 1v1 with a claw but you've never lost a crusader 1v1. but that's descending into smack and derail so lets not go there. back on topic, rockets suck. a rocket launcher on a vengeance with its +25% damage bonus and faction rockets does exactly the same damage as a completely unbonused 200mm autocannon with barrage. +++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.04.03 17:21:00 - [29] Originally by: Tozmeister This is the one i meant to link Also,you've lost twice in a 1v1 with a claw but you've never lost a crusader 1v1. but that's descending into smack and derail so lets not go there. back on topic, rockets suck. a rocket launcher on a vengeance with its +25% damage bonus and faction rockets does exactly the same damage as a completely unbonused 200mm autocannon with barrage. And has exactly the same optimal, right? EFT ftl. This isn't to say that rockets are fine. They're not - they're too fitting-intensive, they're too ineffective against ABing frigates and their base damage is simply too low. But a simple comparison of EFT DPS numbers without regard to optimals or tracking is not just meaningless, it's stupid.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.04.03 17:57:00 - [30] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 03/04/2009 17:58:21 Originally by: Tozmeister back on topic, rockets suck. a rocket launcher on a vengeance with its +25% damage bonus and faction rockets does exactly the same damage as a completely unbonused 200mm autocannon with barrage. While the AK will suffer a -50% tracking penalty from using barrage. Thats not good in high-velocity dogfighting... my guess is putting them against each other on interceptors the rocket ships will rip apart the AK boat in short order.

Tozmeister Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.04.03 19:31:00 - [31] No not a 'simple' comparison at all. I'm fully aware of falloff and tracking will reduce autocannon DPS. But so will sigradius and linear speed to a rocket. Using Stafens' missile damage calculator and you see that rockets vs an MWD'ing inty in an orbit of 3000m/s suffer a 68.1% reduction to damage. Easily matching if not out-stripping the autocannons damage reduction. To regrade the damage reduction through motion of just autocannons and ignore damage reduction of missiles under the same criteria would be "EFT ftl", "meaningless" and "stupid". So, given that both rockets and autocannons suffer approximately the same percentage of damage reduction against the same target under the same conditions then it really does boil down to which has the higher base DPS and my original point that a rocket launcher II with +15% faction ammo and +25% ship bonus will only match an unbonused 200mm autocannon with barrage still stands. +++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2009.04.03 20:56:00 - [32] A fully tackled inty (scram+web) is not going to go 3000m/s and the damage reduction to missiles is going to be negligible. The falloff reduction from Barrage is going to be in the 30%-50% range. Fit a crow with autocannons and come to Syndicate. I'll take you in my rocket crow any time :-) Rockets deliver consistent, reliable DPS at acceptable quantities while freeing the ship to perform maneuvers to reduce the damage done to it. A turret-fit ship can't reduce the DPS applied to it without reducing its own DPS. Heck, what am I saying?? Boost rockets!
Panzram GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.03 22:04:00 - [33] If rockets did get a buff they'd have to change the bonuses on the smaller Khanid ships to make sure they remained gimped. Maybe a bonus to salvager range or tractor beam energy use.
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2009.04.03 22:47:00 - [34] some people still dont understand the missile dmg formula :> if explo radius < ship sig radius, you can still deal nearly full dmg even if it normally would reduce it due to speed, the problem is the BASE dmg that rockets do is crap. increasing it by 10% wouldnt hurt.
Tozmeister Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.04.04 00:36:00 - [35] Originally by: Faffywaffy A fully tackled inty (scram+web) is not going to go 3000m/s and the damage reduction to missiles is going to be negligible. The falloff reduction from Barrage is going to be in the 30%-50% range. Fit a crow with autocannons and come to Syndicate. I'll take you in my rocket crow any time :-) Rockets deliver consistent, reliable DPS at acceptable quantities while freeing the ship to perform maneuvers to reduce the damage done to it. A turret-fit ship can't reduce the DPS applied to it without reducing its own DPS. Heck, what am I saying?? Boost rockets! Again though, you can't have a basis for comparison by using bunch of arbitrary conditions. In your example you've got a Crow (double missile damage bonus and range bonus) running a scram and web on a gun-neutral A-N-Other inty using unbonused autocannons at an perfect 9-10kM that you can dictate. If you want a fair comparison then swap the kinetic rockets for a different type. compare your now-unbonused rocket damage to unbonused autocannon damage. With all other conditions being equal. Your position is that the rocket crow is on a par with pulse crusader, you own kill record suggests otherwise as you have qualitatively better kills in your pulse sader (particularly this one). My position is a rocket crow (with double damage bonus and range bonus) is marginally behind any of the other short range intys (pulse sader, AC claw, blaster ranis). As soon as you get away from the crow and into a vengeance or a malediction you really start to see how bad rockets are. My solution is give rockets a 15% base damage boost and split the crows damage bonus into +5% kinetic damage and +5% standard missile damage. Standard missile crow remains the same, rocket crow gets a minor buff, vengeance and malediction a significant buff. Rocket crow gets keeps its range advantage vs malediction, Malediction gets variable damage vs rocket crow. +++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
Patrice Macmahon Colonial Marines EVE Division	Posted - 2009.04.04 01:31:00 - [36] Originally by: Mystafyre Rockets need some love from CCP. Give Caldari a chance to have fun with rockets! Come one, maxed out skills, 3x BCU T2 at lows, crow can make little over 110 dps with faction rockets! It really can't fit those 3x BCU because CPU ends when you try to fit the second lol. BUFF ROCKETS AND CPU ON CROW!! Blaster taranis does like 250 dps!! Rockets are allready pretty nasty, you can set for max speed orbit around 4000 m3 and still hit your target EVERY time.... Zero tracking = Moar effective DPS... Its how I take out T2 frigs in a tristan.... The Intakis have an obligation to defend the Federation, but not to assult others on its behalf.
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2009.04.04 04:12:00 - [37] Originally by: Tozmeister Originally by: Faffywaffy A fully tackled inty (scram+web) is not going to go 3000m/s and the damage reduction to missiles is going to be negligible. The falloff reduction from Barrage is going to be in the 30%-50% range. Fit a crow with autocannons and come to Syndicate. I'll take you in my rocket crow any time :-) Rockets deliver consistent, reliable DPS at acceptable quantities while freeing the ship to perform maneuvers to reduce the damage done to it. A turret-fit ship can't reduce the DPS applied to it without reducing its own DPS. Heck, what am I saying?? Boost rockets! Again though, you can't have a basis for comparison by using bunch of arbitrary conditions. In your example you've got a Crow (double missile damage bonus and range bonus) running a scram and web on a gun-neutral A-N-Other inty using unbonused autocannons at an perfect 9-10kM that you can dictate. If you want a fair comparison then swap the kinetic rockets for a different type. compare your now-unbonused rocket damage to unbonused autocannon damage. With all other conditions being equal. I have no idea what you're talking about. You (or maybe it was someone else) said unbonused ACs were better than bonused rockets. That's what I'm comparing. You can't always dictate range, but at most ranges the rockets are going to be better. At near zero range, they will be about equal. Originally by: Tozmeister Your position is that the rocket crow is on a par with pulse crusader, you own kill record suggests otherwise as you have qualitatively better kills in your pulse sader (particularly this one). Flattery won't help you. Just because it was fully faction-fit doesn't mean it isn't a lol-fit. That thing would've died to a strong gust of wind. Originally by: Tozmeister My position is a rocket crow (with double damage bonus and range bonus) is marginally behind any of the other short range intys (pulse sader, AC claw, blaster ranis). As soon as you get away from the crow and into a vengeance or a malediction you really start to see how bad rockets are. In a 1v1 fight between these, yes, I agree (except with the pulse sader - it's about equal). The crow does, however, remain a much better tackler (3 midslots vs. sader and claw's 2, much faster than a taranis) while being, as you say, marginally behind the other dogfighting inties. It's a tradeoff.
Tozmeister Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.04.04 08:57:00 - [38] Here's the thing, you keep using the crow as your base rocket boat. It's the bonuses of the crow that make rockets reasonable. As soon as you get in a vengeance or a malediction you see where rockets really are. +++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.04.04 09:57:00 - [39] Only thing that rockets have against them are that they don't deal near full their dps potential to frigs. Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.04.04 12:09:00 - [40] Edited by: TraininVain on 04/04/2009 12:14:11 If rockets get a significant damage boost then they need to lose some range tbh. As it is they have (according to my EFT) 15km range on a Crow. This puts the user outside web/scram range too. The DPS they do isn't even a curve. It's a flat line which autocannons for example wouldn't be. This is not an insignificant point. I really like that "rDPS" concept floating around the forums because the paper DPS is subject to so many factors. If a weapon can do consistent, reliable damage it's probably got higher Damage Per Minute than a situational high damage weapon. Now that said it does look like they suffer from real damage mitigation hitting targets under MWD but then so do all the other weapon systems so that needs to be looked at carefully. I'd support maybe a moderate damage bump for targets under MWD but nothing really drastic unless their range makes the user vulnerable to fun and games in the same way as the short range turret inties are.

Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2009.04.04 13:18:00 - [41] Originally by: Faffywaffy Rockets are fine if you know how to use them. Funny thing is... the two guys you popped were also rocket crows. So, based on that link you can say: * rockets are kickass as you beat two other inties with one rocket crow * rockets suck bigtime as two rockets crows got owned by one other inty
Meazy San	Posted - 2009.04.04 13:28:00 - [42] Originally by: Tykkis hehe. don't compare ceptors to taranis. it's it's own class of ships called fotm. but rockets do royally suck! Well actually the Ranis has always been "fotm" even when the gistii crows use to prowl there were always a significant amount of ranis pilots.
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2009.04.04 13:46:00 - [43] Originally by: Agor Dirdonen Originally by: Faffywaffy Rockets are fine if you know how to use them. Funny thing is... the two guys you popped were also rocket crows. So, based on that link you can say: * rockets are kickass as you beat two other inties with one rocket crow * rockets suck bigtime as two rockets crows got owned by one other inty Only one of them was a rocket-crow, and it was a fail-fit (no web, no DC, CPR??).
Dirk Culliford H A V O C Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.04.04 13:49:00 - [44] Originally by: Mystafyre Rockets need some love from CCP. Give Caldari a chance to have fun with rockets! Come one, maxed out skills, 3x BCU T2 at lows, crow can make little over 110 dps with faction rockets! It really can't fit those 3x BCU because CPU ends when you try to fit the second lol. BUFF ROCKETS AND CPU ON CROW!! Blaster taranis does like 250 dps!! you realise the blaster ranis has to orbit at something like 750m/s at 1km out from target to do the 250 dps right? Instantly putting them inside scram and web range....what about your crow? oh right.....
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.04.04 15:30:00 - [45] It is absurd how bad rockets are. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Joeanne Card	Posted - 2009.04.19 19:44:00 - [46] read the rocket description think about what ships get rocket bonus's there fleet ships ffs rockets are for raping drones get over it
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2009.04.19 19:57:00 - [47] Rockets are teh suck. Buff rockets!
Badly Dazzled	Posted - 2009.04.20 08:49:00 - [48] Poor rocket dps is kinda offset by the awesome look of khanid frigs but . . . as of now theyre inferior to their t1 brothers, raising bonus to 10% (evn jus 7.5) for dmage may jus b their saving grace Crow ppl use light mzles, rockets are fo Khanid
Mohenna	Posted - 2009.04.20 12:56:00 - [49] Rocket lover, cry your indignation in the devs' balance thread too! Originally by: Patrice Macmahon Rockets are allready pretty nasty, you can set for max speed orbit around 4000 m3 and still hit your target EVERY time.... Zero tracking = Moar effective DPS... Its how I take out T2 frigs in a tristan.... Try that. The rockets start their motion away from your orbit (unlike turrets, missiles aren't aimed: they begin their movement in the direction the ship is facing). Then, they accelerate towards the target's current position, which in orbit is not the position in which the target is a moment later: so, they have to follow the target. This means that in a 4k orbit they won't reach the target if both ships are fast enough. You can see this for yourself by finding the maximum range you can hit a roid with rockets (which is different than flight speedtime thanks to rocket acceleration) and then starting to orbit the target fast enough. Originally by:* Joeanne Card rockets are for raping drones If that's true, they're fail at that too: because against drones they get some 95% damage reduction factoring in speed and sig.
Shaitis Caldari Reikoku Reloaded KenZoku	Posted - 2009.04.20 18:21:00 - [50] Rockets doesnt need damage,speed or radius bonus, all it needs is ROF bonus. Even in RL rockets as an ungided weapon are beeing launched in packs, several same time from same launcher. We should be able to launch multiple rockets (if not all from launcher) and than wait with long reload time.

Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.04.20 22:45:00 - [51] Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 20/04/2009 22:45:53 Sorry, but anyone who thinks rockets are "balanced" right now is an idiot. Damage is just pure lol, and you never actually get your full theoretical maximum range. Forget just comparing weapon to weapon, compare ship to ship and every ship based around rockets sucks. The rocket Crow is terrible, only marginally "better" dps than the standard missile Crow, with pathetic range that requires it to get into web range to hit anything. The Malediction is trash. Pathetic range on a ship with a bonus to warp disruptor range? Lol? The Hawk is the worst AF by a solid margin, and is completely outclassed by the Harpy in every possible way. Less dps, less tank, major fitting issues, what more could you ask for? The Vengeance is the only ship that gives the Hawk any competition for its title as worst AF. The only marginally redeeming quality the Vengeance has is the ability to fit turrets. Hint to the clueless: *the Vengeance is better with ACs than with the rockets it has a bonus to. Do you see the problem? The Heretic only manages to be decent because the Eris and Flycatcher are so terrible, and it's still well behind the Sabre in pretty much everything. Swapping the bonuses to the laser bonuses from the Coercer would be a HUGE improvement. The solution: double rocket base damage, at least*. ========== Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
Vyllana	Posted - 2009.04.21 01:32:00 - [52] Rockets are by far the weakest weapon system in the game. Definitely need a significant boost, both to their base damage and to their effectiveness in delivering that base damage (i.e. explosion velocity).
Lysander Krieg	Posted - 2009.04.21 03:34:00 - [53] I agree that rockets are absolutely woeful in nearly every aspect, however, they should just be left as they are. Increase damage? At what cost? CC(C)P take more more than they ever give in my opinion, so yes they may graciously give you X% base damage increase, but it will come with a cost, usually one that offsets the gain by at least 200%. Rockets just suck, and whilst they may be fun to play with, fire something else for serious play.
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2009.04.21 03:50:00 - [54] Just to add a beef with rockets, its rockets clip is ******ed. Atleast a 1/10th of dps is lost in reloading. Its much worse then arty.
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.04.21 05:54:00 - [55] I just did a little EFT warrioring, and came out of it being perplexed. Because personally I'd actually rather fly a punisher than a vengeance. You loose 8 dps, fitting DLP's rather than rockets, you can fit a nos in the spare top-slot and its a fair bit faster. Ok the tanks not as good. But seriously, if you get focused on then you die no matter what either way. I think for the khanid ships, rockets either need SERIOUSLY more range and ideally a fitting decrease too. They use oodles of CPU and thats just mean. Didn't even bother looking at the male, because there's no point trying to come up with a viable set-up for it.
Mohenna	Posted - 2009.04.21 08:51:00 - [56] Originally by: Katarlia Simov rockets either need SERIOUSLY more range and ideally a fitting decrease too. No range please. That makes them a confusing bastard hybrid. Rockets should be the blasters of the missile world. If a rocket ship gets into 1km, you're dead.
Rip Striker	Posted - 2009.04.21 09:23:00 - [57] ...with all skills at level 5 the Hawk dishes out 107 kinetic dps and 86 dps of the other damage types (navy ammo). Explosion velocity is 133 m/s. How about that? Many tech 1 frigates can reach those numbers and even exceed them. Simply put: The Hawk cannot hurt other assault frigates. The Hawk cannot hurt a dps-setup-interceptor, even if the interceptor is webbed and scrammed. The Hawk can barely hurt tech 1 frigates. However, if the t1 frig has a repper, well...you better deaggress and go back to mission running. The rockets really need to be looked at. ASAP.
Brixer Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2009.04.21 11:33:00 - [58] Why the heck are you going close enough for a taranis to hit you if flying a crow ?
Bomerang Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2009.04.21 11:35:00 - [59] Originally by: Mohenna Originally by: Katarlia Simov rockets either need SERIOUSLY more range and ideally a fitting decrease too. No range please. That makes them a confusing bastard hybrid. Rockets should be the blasters of the missile world. If a rocket ship gets into 1km, you're dead. Yeah, rockets should be more like blasters. If you got to 0m, or have high transversial, the rockets should just say 'splut!' and do no damage at all.
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2009.04.21 11:58:00 - [60] Edited by: Faffywaffy on 21/04/2009 11:58:54 Killmail

Rip Striker	Posted - 2009.04.21 12:53:00 - [61] Originally by: Faffywaffy Edited by: Faffywaffy on 21/04/2009 11:58:54 Killmail What a bull**** killmail. There is no way a crow can solo that particular raven. That raven has 72% kinetic shield resists and peak shield recharge a bit over 30 hp/sec. Even with max skills your crow would be doing 90 dps. Simple math gives you away. Not to mention you only did 7% of total damage to that raven. GTFO of here liar! Rockets need some love from CCP
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2009.04.21 13:04:00 - [62] Originally by: Rip Striker Originally by: Faffywaffy Edited by: Faffywaffy on 21/04/2009 11:58:54 Killmail What a bull** killmail. There is no way a crow can solo that particular raven. That raven has 72% kinetic shield resists and peak shield recharge a bit over 30 hp/sec. Even with max skills your crow would be doing 90 dps. Simple math gives you away. Not to mention you only did 7% of total damage to that raven. GTFO of here liar! Rockets need some love from CCP I don't know about your crow, but my crow does 164 dps (overheated), with max skills. The killmail shows I did 7% because he was ratting and got shot up by a lot of rats before out encounter. During the encounter, as a matter of fact, the rats were not** shooting him (they were shooting, and missing, me). As for why the rats didn't show up on the killmail, I don't know...
Rip Striker	Posted - 2009.04.21 13:28:00 - [63] Originally by: Faffywaffy Originally by: Rip Striker Originally by: Faffywaffy Edited by: Faffywaffy on 21/04/2009 11:58:54 Killmail What a bull** killmail. There is no way a crow can solo that particular raven. That raven has 72% kinetic shield resists and peak shield recharge a bit over 30 hp/sec. Even with max skills your crow would be doing 90 dps. Simple math gives you away. Not to mention you only did 7% of total damage to that raven. GTFO of here liar! Rockets need some love from CCP I don't know about your crow, but my crow does 164 dps (overheated), with max skills. The killmail shows I did 7% because he was ratting and got shot up by a lot of rats before out encounter. During the encounter, as a matter of fact, the rats were not** shooting him (they were shooting, and missing, me). As for why the rats didn't show up on the killmail, I don't know... ...you can't possibly overheat all the time. Though I must admit, even if you overheat at an optimal rate you would be doing about 140-145 dps. That would be enough to kill that Raven. Good for you . Sorry about calling you a liar.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.04.21 13:34:00 - [64] At max skills my vengence will get 100 dps with rockets and thats with a 25% damage bonus!
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2009.04.21 13:34:00 - [65] You only need to overheat at his peak recharge.
Lady Darkmoon	Posted - 2009.04.21 13:38:00 - [66] Everyone knows that Rockets are just mislabelled. They should have been "Civilian Missiles" or "Civilian Missile Launchers". To be honest, I think you get more DPS out of a Vengeance by using Civilian turret and a damage mod than you do with bonused rockets :(
Jaffnar Borg	Posted - 2009.04.21 14:10:00 - [67] Just take a look at their description: "A tiny launcher that can carry a very limited supply of rockets. Not really intended as a primary weapon but rather as a cheap supplementary weapon system." Making ships with rockets as their primary weapon system, was a big mistake in the first place. Either completly redesign rockets OR increase the rocket bonuses on Khanid ships by a large amount OR give them a bonus to light missiles instead.
Lady Darkmoon	Posted - 2009.04.21 18:55:00 - [68] Originally by: Jaffnar Borg Making ships with rockets as their primary weapon system, was a big mistake in the first place. Either completly redesign rockets OR increase the rocket bonuses on Khanid ships by a large amount OR give them a bonus to light missiles instead. QFE~ If the Vengeance, Malediction and Heretic (speaking as an Amarr player) had either rockets boosted, or gotten a new (and useful mind you) ship bonus to replace the rockets, I would so be dusting off those ships again and actually use them. As it is right now, the Veng, Mala and Heretic are only good for spinning around in the hangar, or to take out for a flight when you feel like cruising around aimlessly in a cool looking ship. I know many people cry loudly in defense of Veng, Mala and Heretic as great ships, but you can't deny the simple glaring fact that a boost to rockets or a different (and useful) ship bonus on those ships would make them twice as useful, if not more. I know there are other ships that also have rocket bonuses, but I can't remember them from top of my head. Please look into rockets and fix this problem. It's been adressed (by the players) over and over for 5 years. C'mon already ¼_¼


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