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Indium oxide Gallente Unnatural Growth OUTWORLD SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.04.21 23:39:00 - [1] Edited by: Indium oxide on 21/04/2009 23:40:41 I dont really understand why every time i ask for the best of a certain type of ship the standard response is a caldari ship? Unless i am mistaken there are 3 other races out there and im sure that they all dont suck compared to caldari, otherwise the game would be broken Signature: The new authority on PvP
Benedikt Miloslav	Posted - 2009.04.21 23:40:00 - [2]
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2009.04.21 23:51:00 - [3] What have you been asking for? PvE content, the Caldari do tend to have some of the best. PvP combat, well, here's the saying that gets repeated on this forum a lot: Caldari Solo PvP Success Pick three ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.21 23:54:00 - [4] Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 21/04/2009 23:55:12 Originally by: Gavin DeVries What have you been asking for? PvE content, the Caldari do tend to have some of the best. PvP combat, well, here's the saying that gets repeated on this forum a lot: Caldari Solo PvP Success Pick three That joke is so old it hurts, and its no longer relevant at all. It used to be "fun" a year ago, but repeated a lot? You fail. Caldari got a few good ships for solo work, but many of the caldari ships are gang oreinted. Caldari is by far the best solo race, minmatar would take that role imo.
ikillu532	Posted - 2009.04.22 00:03:00 - [5] Coming from a caldari pilot, caldari ships lack everywhere. Definitely would say gallente are the best all around ship.
Sirani	Posted - 2009.04.22 00:19:00 - [6] Originally by: ikillu532 Coming from a caldari pilot, caldari ships lack everywhere. Definitely would say gallente are the best all around ship. this
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.22 00:30:00 - [7] Originally by: ikillu532 Coming from a caldari pilot, caldari ships lack everywhere. Definitely would say gallente are the best all around ship. I disagree. I fly Caldari myself, they got some pretty good ships. Gallente however is lacking, their drone ships is teh ships that make gallente woth it. And possibly Mega. Best allaround ships is definatly minmatar.
Indium oxide Gallente Unnatural Growth OUTWORLD SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.04.22 00:37:00 - [8] I have mainly been asking baout PvP, specificly Ewar, and the keres gets ab****ely no love, all i hear about is the kitsune, and the blackbird. Generally i am told that caldari ships are better. Signature: The new authority on PvP
ikillu532	Posted - 2009.04.22 00:38:00 - [9] Well the rook and falcon can't be beat when it comes to EWAR
Vyllana	Posted - 2009.04.22 00:48:00 - [10] Well duh, if you're asking about ewar, why would you be surprised? Caldari are obviously the most ewar oriented race (i.e. who else has an ewar battleship?). Target jammers are obviously the most "overt" form of ewar... webbers and scramblers, which some other races get bonuses to are part of a typical tackling setup anyway, so they aren't really "ewar", and target painters aren't exactly "ewar" either. TDs and damps are of course solid alternatives, but they aren't as total at shutting down a target as ecm is, and moreover caldari ships tend to have more med slots since they are designed as shield tankers, but those med slots can often all be put to use for ecm at the expense of not having any tank. Anyway, your question is kind of silly in light of the fact that you are asking for ewar ships and being surprised that the answer is frequently Caldari. That'd be like being surprised that people tell you minmatar after asking which ships are the fastest or amarr after you ask which ships have the biggest armor tanks.
odst Captain15	Posted - 2009.04.22 01:00:00 - [11] the blarpy isnt that bad and thats probally the only caldari pvp ship ill ever use anymore
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.04.22 01:10:00 - [12] Amarr > Caldari > Minmatar > Gal IMO.
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.04.22 01:44:00 - [13] Caldari have incredibly strong PvP ships, and shield buffer tanking is pretty much superior to armor buffering for sub BSes. As for the solo PvP thing, Caldari have capable solo ships that are just as competitive with the other races. No, not every ship can be a solo pwnmobile, but that pick 3 joke (Caldari, PvP, Success, Solo) is a bunch of bull squid. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.04.22 04:48:00 - [14] Edited by: fuxinos on 22/04/2009 04:51:36 Every ship in this game could solo PVP, some of them just rather well. As for Caldari, their ships mainly suck when it comes down to a fight with same sized ships. Where Caldari realy shines are their thiny little niche roles and only there. They just suffer from to many tradeoffs and their lack of flexibility makes it even worse. But there are 2-3 ships Caldari has, that are not completly cramped into a niche role and they do the job quite good. See Drake, one of the ships that does not get the overwhelming useless Missilerange bonus. Apart from that, I would say Amarr has the best ships overall, for solo AND gang work. Solo: Amarr > Minmatar > Gallente > Caldari Gang: Amarr > Minmatar/Caldari > Gallente Fleet: Caldari > Amarr > Minmatar/Gallente
Angelos	Posted - 2009.04.22 05:00:00 - [15] Gallente > *
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.04.22 05:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Indium oxide Edited by: Indium oxide on 21/04/2009 23:40:41 I dont really understand why every time i ask for the best of a certain type of ship the standard response is a caldari ship? Unless i am mistaken there are 3 other races out there and im sure that they all dont suck compared to caldari, otherwise the game would be broken I thought amarr was the fotm this week
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 06:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Caldari is by far the best solo race, minmatar would take that role imo. Lol you sir have absolutely no clue about eve ships. Show me one Caldari ship that can beat my domi 1v1 for example.
Zill The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.22 06:23:00 - [18] I have a Domi, an can afford anything up to an including full Complex Mods. I'll tell you what beats us for damage, ANYTHING hehe CNR,Golem,massivly out kill a Domi.Drake(equal for tanking)
xVx dreadnaught Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.04.22 06:25:00 - [19] I think all the races have different things to add to fights. my basic breakdown is... CALDARI longest lock range, slowest locking time, best buffer tanks, lowest Max DPS, can still do Dmg while jammed/damped (FoF) cannot get wreckings on missles and they have the biggest sig radius (fastest locked and easier to hit being that) and there the slowest movement. missles don't need to track, but they can be shot down (defenders) and there is a delay (if you or your target warps its just a wasted missle) MINMITAAR fastest movement, fastest locking, lowest sig radius, high DPS (autos are great for close range and artys are massive volley) lacking in overall HP, require cross training guns and missles aswell as drones (same with shield an armor skills and navigation) AMARR Best base armor, biggest cap+recharge, low ammo costs (crystals last ages and take little cargo cap) most energy costing weapons, beams are good for sniping and pulse good for close ganks, can be trained focusing on guns and armor aswell as cap skills (unless your going for very specific ships) GALLENTE Great DPS! decent speed, decent armor, drones don't req CPU PG Or CAP, there ship bonus means they can do good DMG at range with Rails or massive DMG in close with blasters. The bottom lineis every race has something going for them, aswell as there drawbacks... peaople like caldari cos there easy to use "decently" altho it takes skill to be good in them missles have low SP/Dmg ratio where as minm is a much more SP intensive and sometimes use speed to "Avoid" damage. What I suggest is pick your ships based on what you need from it.
4 LOM United Gamers	Posted - 2009.04.22 07:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Indium oxide Edited by: Indium oxide on 21/04/2009 23:40:41 I dont really understand why every time i ask for the best of a certain type of ship the standard response is a caldari ship? Unless i am mistaken there are 3 other races out there and im sure that they all dont suck compared to caldari, otherwise the game would be broken As a player who is all caldari (this character) and an alt thats all gallenty, i have to say wtf? Caldari are great support (and god like pve), but the other races shine at pvp... Also who is telling you caldari ships are the only good pvp ships? unless its me in game as i tend to go caldari pride a little to hard. Anyways who ever is telling you this should go take a cerberus in a fight against a zealot and then tell you caldari is not as good as they thought.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.22 07:29:00 - [21] I never noticed caldari being mentioned that often as the best ships for a role. But maybe they are mentioned bit more often as counter for all the caldari whiners. And together with amarr they have just the best ships for gang pvp.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.04.22 09:17:00 - [22] Edited by: Gypsio III on 22/04/2009 09:22:00 Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Caldari is by far the best solo race, minmatar would take that role imo. Lol you sir have absolutely no clue about eve ships. Show me one Caldari ship that can beat my domi 1v1 for example. Pure lolz at thinking that solo pvp is measured at the level of BS-sized ships.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.04.22 09:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Gavin DeVries What have you been asking for? PvE content, the Caldari do tend to have some of the best. PvP combat, well, here's the saying that gets repeated on this forum a lot: Caldari Solo PvP Success Pick three It's also worth mentioning that 1v1 combat on TQ is statistically insignificant these days
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.04.22 09:29:00 - [24] Quote: I dont really understand why every time i ask for the best of a certain type of ship the standard response is a caldari ship? Unless i am mistaken there are 3 other races out there and im sure that they all dont suck compared to caldari, otherwise the game would be broken Because a ****** on a forum answers? :) Caldari, like every other race have strong and weak points. Their strongest point and the one that leads to the great amount of Caldari pilots is that they are extremely low skill points friendly for missions. A careful 1-2 month pilot in a Raven can do most level 4 missions without a problem. Still, as long as you cannot fly a Golem, Raven is not even the best all arround Battleship for missions. Sentry Dominix is a better choice. For solo PvP, the old pick 3 joke is generally true. Theorycrafting on a Forum is a nice way to ignore reality. Check how many can flipping/low sec Kestrels/Merlins are out there compared to Rifters, Incursus or Punishers. Check how many Caracals/Moas are out there soloing compared to Thoraxes/Vexors/Ruptures/Arbitrators. Check how many Harpies are out there soloing compared to Ishkurs/Jaguars. How many Crows compared to Taranis/Crusaders. How many Cerberi/Eagles compared to Zealots/Vagabonds/Ishtars. There is a reason for that, Caldari are not really made for <disruptor range combat + tackling gear and generally lack versatility. The above does not mean that you cannot solo in Caldari ships. It just means that Gallente and Minmatar are the best races for soloing generally, followed by Amarr (Pilgrim/Curse are really strong for solo but they are the exception to the rule). On the other hand, Caldari tend to have really nice medium/large gang ships with dedicated roles. The general idea is that as you move from soloing towards larger gangs, Gallente and Minmatar ships get weaker while Caldari and Amarr ships get stronger. Of course there are exceptions.
xVx dreadnaught Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.04.22 09:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Gavin DeVries What have you been asking for? PvE content, the Caldari do tend to have some of the best. PvP combat, well, here's the saying that gets repeated on this forum a lot: Caldari Solo PvP Success Pick three It's also worth mentioning that 1v1 combat on TQ is statistically insignificant these days Yeah its a shame noone adheres to 1V1 combat nor does anyone respect it... I think it would be fun if 2 alliances were fighting over a system someone said 1V1 winner gets the system for 1 week and in a weeks time another 1V1... that my dear children would be honorable. its a shame noone (inc me) believes it would ever happen.
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.04.22 09:31:00 - [26] Edited by: Ig Neus on 22/04/2009 09:31:42 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Gavin DeVries What have you been asking for? PvE content, the Caldari do tend to have some of the best. PvP combat, well, here's the saying that gets repeated on this forum a lot: Caldari Solo PvP Success Pick three It's also worth mentioning that 1v1 combat on TQ is statistically insignificant these days Oh it really depends on where and how you fly. About half of my kills are solo. In fact I had two nice 1v1 yesterday and a funny one with a noob :P Eve PvP is not only 0.0..
Incantare	Posted - 2009.04.22 09:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Indium oxide I dont really understand why every time i ask for the best of a certain type of ship the standard response is a caldari ship? Unless i am mistaken there are 3 other races out there and im sure that they all dont suck compared to caldari, otherwise the game would be broken Are we playing the same game? Caldari don't have best in every class. They have a series of good ships and some terrible ones. The same can be said of every race. Unless you're talking about PvE, in which case yes Caldari are king. On the other hand for solo they are the worst race, period.
Lady Darkmoon	Posted - 2009.04.22 09:49:00 - [28] If you want 1v1 you can flip, steal wrecks and stuff like that in high-sec. Only way to be semisure of a 1v1. There are a few 1v1's in low-sec as well, but you need the fight to be quick, else there'll most likely be others joining in, wether they are friends of your target or just 3rd party looking for a quick two kills. Anyways, to reply to the OP. I rarely encounter what you are saying about being advised to use a Caldari ship. There are sometimes those that say train for CNR's to do missions, but as far as PvP goes, people always tend to recommend ships from the other 3 races (depending on what role for the ship the person asking is after). To be honest, most times when Caldari are mentioned in PvP, the only ship that ever gets brought up is the Falcon, and sometimes, though rarely, the blarpy.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 09:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 22/04/2009 09:22:00 Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Caldari is by far the best solo race, minmatar would take that role imo. Lol you sir have absolutely no clue about eve ships. Show me one Caldari ship that can beat my domi 1v1 for example. Pure lolz at thinking that solo pvp is measured at the level of BS-sized ships. Are you somewhat dumb ? The orignial statement didn't restrict the solo pvp for a shiptype, so i took the domi, because with the domi i can beat any sub-capital ship in a solofight, no matter the race or size. But this counts for other drone boats aswell to a certain extent. The reson is that they have nice dps before having fitted a singel module. This allows to fit pvp utility stuff in lows and mes, maybe combined with nos/neuts in high slots, which will obsolete any active tank or whatever, while having a strong tank on the domi/myrm/vexor with pvp mods in meds.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.04.22 09:58:00 - [30] Edited by: Gypsio III on 22/04/2009 09:59:51 Originally by: Lady Darkmoon To be honest, most times when Caldari are mentioned in PvP, the only ship that ever gets brought up is the Falcon, and sometimes, though rarely, the blarpy. And long may people continue to think that. Originally by: yakia Are you somewhat dumb ? The orignial statement didn't restrict the solo pvp for a shiptype, so i took the domi, because with the domi i can beat any sub-capital ship in a solofight, no matter the race or size. But this counts for other drone boats aswell to a certain extent. The reson is that they have nice dps before having fitted a singel module. This allows to fit pvp utility stuff in lows and mes, maybe combined with nos/neuts in high slots, which will obsolete any active tank or whatever, while having a strong tank on the domi/myrm/vexor with pvp mods in meds. No. But you are, by giving a BS as an example as a solo ship.
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:05:00 - [31] Originally by: Lady Darkmoon To be honest, most times when Caldari are mentioned in PvP, the only ship that ever gets brought up is the Falcon, and sometimes, though rarely, the blarpy. HAM Drake is generally the "best" Battlecruiser (no mission passive tank setups, put 3 BCU, a MWD and a Disruptor on it please). Rokh is fighting with Apocalypse for the best fleet Battleship (Apoc does a bit more damage, Rokh is much easier to fit and to tank for DD) AND is a great small gang Blastership with DPS close to Megathron AND a sick tank. Eagle is the best anti-support sniper and Cerberus is a nice ship with great DPS at huge range, provided you have a tackler. They are not mentioned so often but they have their niches for sure. Blackbird is a poor man's Falcon. I'd say that all of the above are used in PvP and mentioned a lot. Also, the important thing is not to have many ships that can be used. It is to have some really good at what they are supposed to do. For example, it is stupid to say that Gallente have bad Assault ships or bad HACs because Enyo sucks and Deimos is mediocre. In fact, I prefer Ishkur and Ishtar to being able to fly both the Assault Ships / HACs of any other race. Of course it is a matter of taste but I hope that you get my point.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:08:00 - [32] Originally by: Gypsio III No. But you are, by giving a BS as an example as a solo ship. And why exactly do you think a BS, especially a dominix, isn't suited for solo fights, moron ?
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:16:00 - [33] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Gypsio III No. But you are, by giving a BS as an example as a solo ship. And why exactly do you think a BS, especially a dominix, isn't suited for solo fights, moron ? Because you are big, slow, in an "expensive" ship, attract enemies and a single tackling Interceptor can still hold you in space until a fleet comes to deal with you.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:20:00 - [34] Sigh. Because a solo BS screams "bait". Because a solo BS doesn't have the scan res or mobility to reliably tackle anything that isn't another BS. Because a BS doesn't have the mobility to manoeuvre on the field, escape when support arrives or to break a gatecamp. Yes, if you were going to solo in a BS, you'd choose the Domi. But giving a BS as an example of solo pvp prowess is just... stupid.
Draeca Tharri and Co.	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:20:00 - [35] BECAUSE OF FALCON
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:22:00 - [36] Originally by: Ig Neus Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Gypsio III No. But you are, by giving a BS as an example as a solo ship. And why exactly do you think a BS, especially a dominix, isn't suited for solo fights, moron ? Because you are big, slow, in an "expensive" ship, attract enemies and a single tackling Interceptor can still hold you in space until a fleet comes to deal with you. Expensive you say, lol, check what an insured domi costs after insurance, with decent named/t2 mods its cheaper than any t2 ship. Also your tackling interceptor won't hold it down for too long, after a heavy neut sucks it empty and a wave of bonused light drones do the rest. There are many areas where a BS can solo pvp, it doesn't always have to be the form of pvp you think about. Check this guy's latest kills for example: 10 last kills from a faction fitted CNR to a pod, everything killed by a solo BS.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:26:00 - [37] Originally by: Gypsio III Sigh. Because a solo BS screams "bait". Because a solo BS doesn't have the scan res or mobility to reliably tackle anything that isn't another BS. Because a BS doesn't have the mobility to manoeuvre on the field, escape when support arrives or to break a gatecamp. Yes, if you were going to solo in a BS, you'd choose the Domi. But giving a BS as an example of solo pvp prowess is just... stupid. See my post above with examples of good solo pvp with a BS. But of course your brain is too limited to see the many other chances for solo pvp outside your limited field of view. Just because you suck at using battleships solo, it doesn't mean that they are bad in general. You are proven wrong buy this guy and many other sucessful BS solo pilots.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:31:00 - [38] Five haulers, three pods, a mission CNR, and a lolfit Caracal. Only nine of which were solo kills. Six of which were killed by a Drake. You're funny, Yakia.
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:33:00 - [39] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Ig Neus Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Gypsio III No. But you are, by giving a BS as an example as a solo ship. And why exactly do you think a BS, especially a dominix, isn't suited for solo fights, moron ? Because you are big, slow, in an "expensive" ship, attract enemies and a single tackling Interceptor can still hold you in space until a fleet comes to deal with you. Expensive you say, lol, check what an insured domi costs after insurance, with decent named/t2 mods its cheaper than any t2 ship. Also your tackling interceptor won't hold it down for too long, after a heavy neut sucks it empty and a wave of bonused light drones do the rest. There are many areas where a BS can solo pvp, it doesn't always have to be the form of pvp you think about. Check this guy's latest kills for example: 10 last kills from a faction fitted CNR to a pod, everything killed by a solo BS. Tech 2 ships of course are more expensive but they usually can escape (we are talking about T2 Frigates/Cruisers). The cost of the Riggs, the Drones ect on a Domi should be about 80-100 Millions. It is not the same with losing an Ishtar or a Zealot but there is a big difference on how easy it is to lose them. By the way, since you obviously cannot understand what tackling interceptor means, the range of a Heavy Neut is 25.2KM, the Range of a Warp Disruptor II (with Interceptors IV, not V) is 28.8. Anyway, if you cannot understant that a big and slow ship will probably get ganked and that it has no way to escape when things go wrong, I will not try to explain it further...
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:36:00 - [40] Originally by: Gypsio III Five haulers, three pods, a mission CNR, and a lolfit Caracal. Only nine of which were solo kills. Six of which were killed by a Drake. You're funny, Yakia. You have to see all his kills, then you'd not laugh. But here are the mail to another BS solo pilot: 10 latest kills In the 10 latest kills there are 7 CNRs and 1 Golem. And no, you'd not be able to kill them with a drake or a sub-BS ship, only a BS can do that (nos/neut cap empty, which, as mentioned above, is done most efficiently by a domi).
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:38:00 - [41] My isk is on a phoon against a domi. And that guy you linked: He is in minmatar militia fighting caldari. So what is he doing: Making sure the caldari dont even realise he is an enemy because caldari see only the gallente militia as red normally. And when a battleship kills a pod (or a battlecruiser) outside 0.0, you know one thing: He just killed a noobie.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:41:00 - [42] Originally by: Ig Neus The cost of the Riggs, the Drones ect on a Domi should be about 80-100 Millions. It is not the same with losing an Ishtar or a Zealot but there is a big difference on how easy it is to lose them. Dude stop posting, you have no clue. The domi is almost for free before modules after insurance payout if insured with platinum, and you don't have to fit rigs or expensive modules. In fact it's the best performance you can get for cheap isk. Your rigged inty will cost more than medium fitted domi, and it will never be able to kill it. Also you fail to see that there are lot's of possibilities where a BS can be used solo in pvp, you simply lack knowledge and imagination if you don't see it, but the examples and links above should give you at least one example of a successfull BS use for solo combat, there are many more.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:41:00 - [43] Oh come on. Ganking clueless mission runners is extremely funny (I'm a big fan of it) but can hardly be described as "solo BS PVP". Also, he uses a Raven each time. Which is kinda ironic, don't you think, given the previous direction of this thread?
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:44:00 - [44] Originally by: Furb Killer My isk is on a phoon against a domi. And that guy you linked: He is in minmatar militia fighting caldari. So what is he doing: Making sure the caldari dont even realise he is an enemy because caldari see only the gallente militia as red normally. And when a battleship kills a pod (or a battlecruiser) outside 0.0, you know one thing: He just killed a noobie. That's wrong, as minmatar he's shown as a wartarget to Caldari in local. One of them (the first example) is using a phoon, but he can't speedtank or move fast in general, since the navy puts webs on him. The speed-advantage of the phoon doesn't apply here. So he's using it as a neut/nos platform with some damage. A domi would be better here, he probalby is using the phoon because of his skills with minmatar BS.
Incantare	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:44:00 - [45] Originally by: Ig Neus HAM Drake is generally the "best" Battlecruiser (no mission passive tank setups, put 3 BCU, a MWD and a Disruptor on it please). Rokh is fighting with Apocalypse for the best fleet Battleship (Apoc does a bit more damage, Rokh is much easier to fit and to tank for DD) AND is a great small gang Blastership with DPS close to Megathron AND a sick tank. Eagle is the best anti-support sniper and Cerberus is a nice ship with great DPS at huge range, provided you have a tackler. They are not mentioned so often but they have their niches for sure. Blackbird is a poor man's Falcon. I agree with most of what you said, except for the Rokh having near Megathron dps when it has no damage bonus and 50m3 drone bay. It's not outright wrong, but half true. As gang size increases the Rokh's optimal bonus pulls ahead in terms of effective damage. One problem is that while the range bonus works for large blasters because of their high base optimal, it's 'meh' for medium blasters and outright terrible for smalls. Overall the Rokh is a very well designed and effective ship, in no small part due to having the same number of turrets as its Gallente counterpart. Which brings me to my next point, the Caldari ships which have issues. The Ferox shares the Rokh's basic design but has one less turret compared to the Brutix, and unlike the Rokh it's a bad ship. Then there's the Moa with it's weak 6/4/4 layout, the Caracal and Nighthawk which lack the grid for a proper ham fit, the Hawk (all around failure) and the phoenix - a great hull with a terrible weapon system. And I almost forgot the cRaptor. Still, in the three years since I've started playing I've witnessed huge progress in balancing Caldari.
DeadRow Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:46:00 - [46] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Gypsio III Five haulers, three pods, a mission CNR, and a lolfit Caracal. Only nine of which were solo kills. Six of which were killed by a Drake. You're funny, Yakia. You have to see all his kills, then you'd not laugh. But here are the mail to another BS solo pilot: 10 latest kills In the 10 latest kills there are 7 CNRs and 1 Golem. And no, you'd not be able to kill them with a drake or a sub-BS ship, only a BS can do that (nos/neut cap empty, which, as mentioned above, is done most efficiently by a domi). Can't see any Marauder kills on his sheet, and the fits on the CNRs is lol so poor example of solo BS pilot. You ca solo in a BS, some of them at least, but you'll be much more effective in something smaller tbh.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:48:00 - [47] Originally by: Gypsio III Oh come on. Ganking clueless mission runners is extremely funny (I'm a big fan of it) but can hardly be described as "solo BS PVP". Also, he uses a Raven each time. Which is kinda ironic, don't you think, given the previous direction of this thread? But you can't deny that he's doing solo pvp in a BS very successfull ? Also the raven pilot has t2 siege skills, he's probably specialized into caldari, that's why he's using the raven over a domi. The domi is better at this particular type of pvp (nos/neut + heavy tank + damage), and the direction of your statements were that BS in general are not suitable for solo pvp.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:51:00 - [48] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba And the direction of your statements were that BS in general are not suitable for solo pvp. And your ridiculous examples support this assertion. This is a very, very stupid thread.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:54:00 - [49] Originally by: DeadRow Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Gypsio III Five haulers, three pods, a mission CNR, and a lolfit Caracal. Only nine of which were solo kills. Six of which were killed by a Drake. You're funny, Yakia. You have to see all his kills, then you'd not laugh. But here are the mail to another BS solo pilot: 10 latest kills In the 10 latest kills there are 7 CNRs and 1 Golem. And no, you'd not be able to kill them with a drake or a sub-BS ship, only a BS can do that (nos/neut cap empty, which, as mentioned above, is done most efficiently by a domi). Can't see any Marauder kills on his sheet, and the fits on the CNRs is lol so poor example of solo BS pilot. You ca solo in a BS, some of them at least, but you'll be much more effective in something smaller tbh. There is a Golem on the sheet, with faction fitting. And no, you can't solo-kill a faction fitted CNR or Golem with something smaller than a BS. It will tank you easily, while taking you apart (you won't speedtank in in this case because of the faction navy webbers). Only with a BS you can deal enough dps to break the tank (or suck dry the capacitor with nos/neut) while tanking the CNR/Golem + navy.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:56:00 - [50] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Yakia TovilToba And the direction of your statements were that BS in general are not suitable for solo pvp. And your ridiculous examples support this assertion. This is a very, very stupid thread. You only prove that you are stubborn and lack ideas and knowledge of what people can do in Eve with a BS. The 2 characters linked above are both much more successful with their BS solo pvp than you will ever be. That's the facts. The rest are your incompetent comments and accusations based on ignorance.
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.04.22 11:01:00 - [51] Originally by: Incantare Originally by: Ig Neus HAM Drake is generally the "best" Battlecruiser (no mission passive tank setups, put 3 BCU, a MWD and a Disruptor on it please). Rokh is fighting with Apocalypse for the best fleet Battleship (Apoc does a bit more damage, Rokh is much easier to fit and to tank for DD) AND is a great small gang Blastership with DPS close to Megathron AND a sick tank. Eagle is the best anti-support sniper and Cerberus is a nice ship with great DPS at huge range, provided you have a tackler. They are not mentioned so often but they have their niches for sure. Blackbird is a poor man's Falcon. I agree with most of what you said, except for the Rokh having near Megathron dps when it has no damage bonus and 50m3 drone bay. It's not outright wrong, but half true. As gang size increases the Rokh's optimal bonus pulls ahead in terms of effective damage. One problem is that while the range bonus works for large blasters because of their high base optimal, it's 'meh' for medium blasters and outright terrible for smalls. Overall the Rokh is a very well designed and effective ship, in no small part due to having the same number of turrets as its Gallente counterpart. Which brings me to my next point, the Caldari ships which have issues. The Ferox shares the Rokh's basic design but has one less turret compared to the Brutix, and unlike the Rokh it's a bad ship. Then there's the Moa with it's weak 6/4/4 layout, the Caracal and Nighthawk which lack the grid for a proper ham fit, the Hawk (all around failure) and the phoenix - a great hull with a terrible weapon system. And I almost forgot the cRaptor. Still, in the three years since I've started playing I've witnessed huge progress in balancing Caldari. Rokh has no damage bonus but does not use its low slots to tank so it can put 3 MFS there easier than the Mega and it also has an extra weapon turret. In fact, my 3 Plates/2 MFS Megathron has less Blaster damage than a 3 MFS Rokh. It is the 5 Heavy Drones that push Megathron damage higher but Rokh has the advantage of being able to tank ~700 incoming DPS for some time and that it can hit at 20-25KMs well enough (17k optimal, 16k falloff) with Null. I do not say that Rokh is better than the Megathron, just that it is a great ship as well. I agree that Caldari have some bad ships and some hard to fit ships but which race does not? Try to fit an Ishtar without Faction mods and come tell me if its CPU is enough :)
Lijhal FrEE d00M Fighters	Posted - 2009.04.22 11:03:00 - [52] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Gypsio III Five haulers, three pods, a mission CNR, and a lolfit Caracal. Only nine of which were solo kills. Six of which were killed by a Drake. You're funny, Yakia. You have to see all his kills, then you'd not laugh. But here are the mail to another BS solo pilot: 10 latest kills In the 10 latest kills there are 7 CNRs and 1 Golem. And no, you'd not be able to kill them with a drake or a sub-BS ship, only a BS can do that (nos/neut cap empty, which, as mentioned above, is done most efficiently by a domi). epic fail to call "missiongaking" solo pvp ... lulz
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.04.22 11:05:00 - [53] Yakia, the fact that someone using a Battleship kills people missioning (using Factional Warfare) proves about nothing. I can link you a solo T1 Frigate pilot killing an Orca. Does that prove that T1 Frigates are the ultimate solo machines? No, it does not. Now please, take your Dominix (or any other Battleship) and go roam a bit in low/null sec. Or even run arround solo during an Empire War. Or even go can flip from somebody in an active, not npc, corporation. You will understand the problem.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.22 11:11:00 - [54] Quote: That's wrong, as minmatar he's shown as a wartarget to Caldari in local Was that changed in a patch? Because it certainly didnt use to be that way. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
fkingfurious	Posted - 2009.04.22 11:23:00 - [55] LOL at Yakia. You're talking absolute ****e. I know the pilot in question and what the killboard doesnt show you is the neutral Dominix he uses to rep himself. BS are NOT good ships for forcing non-consensual 1v1's. Unless it's another BS you won't catch it, and the only time anything smaller is gonna hang around to fight you is if he's sure he's got a crapton of backup on the way. As for the Caldari ships. Caldari have a huge range of exceedingly good ships, more so possibly than any other race. It is entirely true that they are geared more towards support but they do have some choice with soli-ing ships. The Kestrel is a fantastic light DPS support ship with the most DPS at 30+km of any of the Frigs. BlackBird doesn't need any introduction, it's the De-Facto cruiser EWAR boat. Caracal is another great ranged DPS support machine, and a frig killing monster with assault launchers fitted. Moa is an iffy one but it CAN solo as it can support an MWD and scrambler while still having the same buffer and better DPS than a Ruppy. Drake is probably the best BC in game just as long as you don't fit it with a mission setup. HAM's + Tackle and it's an awesome BC. Scorpion is the only EWAR BS in game. Raven is a DPS monster. Can't fit for solo in any way though. Rokh is a phenomenal fleet sniper and a beastly close rnage slugger, again as long as it has support. It's certainly better than any of the Blaster offerings from Gallente in terms of gang utility. As for Tech2 ships theres one bad one and thats the Hawk, and even that can be used as a fun time LVL3 mission runner. So Caldari are basically really good, IMO the most cinsistently good ships in Eve. They don't have to be best at everything to be good ships.
Ivan Kinsikor Amarr Void Engineers	Posted - 2009.04.22 11:32:00 - [56] I wanna rokh and roll all niiiiiight, and party every day! ahem Caldari has got some good stuff, but the real reason they're so god damn popular is because they are the best starting race for carebearing. So naturally you'll get a ton of Caldari pilots piping up. Personally, I loves me some suicidal Gallente blasterboating. Nothing says 'manly' like rocketing towards someone with a Deimos only to die 30 seconds later in a blaze of glory. Arrrrrrrrrr Though I do have to admit, I am going to be quasi-crosstraining so I can snag the Rokh. It's just too damn sexy of a ship for a hybrid ***** not to have access to.
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.04.22 11:45:00 - [57] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Ig Neus The cost of the Riggs, the Drones ect on a Domi should be about 80-100 Millions. It is not the same with losing an Ishtar or a Zealot but there is a big difference on how easy it is to lose them. Dude stop posting, you have no clue. The domi is almost for free before modules after insurance payout if insured with platinum, and you don't have to fit rigs or expensive modules. In fact it's the best performance you can get for cheap isk. Your rigged inty will cost more than medium fitted domi, and it will never be able to kill it. Also you fail to see that there are lot's of possibilities where a BS can be used solo in pvp, you simply lack knowledge and imagination if you don't see it, but the examples and links above should give you at least one example of a successfull BS use for solo combat, there are many more. Just saw that... It is 80-100M for the Rigs and the fitting, not for the ship. If you cannot afford to rig a Battleship, do not fly it at all. It is like leaving station with 2 Medium slots empty. 3 Trimarks are the largest part of it, 3-4 1600mm Plates, the MWD and the highs are the rest. Of course you have no clue about what you are talking. You do not even know what ships are able to do. Do you even fly a Dominix? Asking because I do and it is my favorite Battleship. By the way, who said anything about rigging a Ceptor or soloing a Dominix in one? I just said that an Ares or a Stiletto can easily tackle a Battleship from outside Heavy Neut range while flying too fast for Drones to hit them. They are not going to kill it of course but that's why people form corporations and gangs. One moment you are tackled by a solo Interceptor, the next 4 Battleships jump on you.
Incantare	Posted - 2009.04.22 11:47:00 - [58] Originally by: Ivan Kinsikor Caldari has got some good stuff, but the real reason they're so god damn popular is because they are the best starting race for carebearing. So naturally you'll get a ton of Caldari pilots piping up. I'll tell you why I picked Caldari as a starting race back when I knew nothing about the game: it's the description. It made the sound like the most badass and pvp oriented of the four empires and I suspect the same can be said for many other new players who picked the race.
The Tzar Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2009.04.22 12:10:00 - [59] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Caldari is by far the best solo race, minmatar would take that role imo. Lol you sir have absolutely no clue about eve ships. Show me one Caldari ship that can beat my domi 1v1 for example. Confirming that my active tanked, neut torp rokh will cream all over your domi 1v1.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 12:12:00 - [60] Originally by: Ig Neus Yakia, the fact that someone using a Battleship kills people missioning (using Factional Warfare) proves about nothing. I can link you a solo T1 Frigate pilot killing an Orca. Does that prove that T1 Frigates are the ultimate solo machines? No, it does not. Now please, take your Dominix (or any other Battleship) and go roam a bit in low/null sec. Or even run arround solo during an Empire War. Or even go can flip from somebody in an active, not npc, corporation. You will understand the problem. I didn't say that a BS is the best solo ship. I only said noone will beat my domi in a 1v1 and then that Gypsion, an old stalker, jumped in and said it's rediculous to say that a BS can be used for solo pvp. There are many fields where a lone BS can work well (and yes, 1 BS + mission rats vs 1 BS + navy is pvp and it is solo (as you fight allone)). But that is something the noobs don't understand, even when shown successfull examples. They say an inty can tackle a domi and wait till support arrives. They don't say that an inty can do this with most other ships aswell. They say the modules of the domi cost lot's of isk. They don't say that other ship size will pay almost the same isk for modules, it comes down to ship cost and the domi is very cheap. And no, one does not need trimarks for solo pvp, buffer tank is for fleet/gang-warfare, solo pvp takes usually much longer, an active tank will result in more hp. The original statement i quoted was that Caldari have the best SOLO ships. This is wrong, not only for battleships but for almost any shipclass.
The Tzar Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2009.04.22 12:18:00 - [61] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Yakia TovilToba And the direction of your statements were that BS in general are not suitable for solo pvp. And your ridiculous examples support this assertion. This is a very, very stupid thread. You only prove that you are stubborn and lack ideas and knowledge of what people can do in Eve with a BS. The 2 characters linked above are both much more successful with their BS solo pvp than you will ever be. That's the facts. The rest are your incompetent comments and accusations based on ignorance. Only a fool or a nub gets caught by a solo BS. The only exception to this would be a smartbombing gatecamping BS, but thats hardly PVP. I appreciate you feel strongly about this Yakia, but why so agressive? Gypsio has good credit here... __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________
Noodly Appendage	Posted - 2009.04.22 12:19:00 - [62] because they have the coolest raciale description in the char creation menu..
DeadRow Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2009.04.22 14:46:00 - [63] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba There is a Golem on the sheet, with faction fitting. And no, you can't solo-kill a faction fitted CNR or Golem with something smaller than a BS. It will tank you easily, while taking you apart (you won't speedtank in in this case because of the faction navy webbers). Only with a BS you can deal enough dps to break the tank (or suck dry the capacitor with nos/neut) while tanking the CNR/Golem + navy. Ah yes, My bad, was sure I clicked both links and they went to the same pilot, my mistake. Tbh in the context of looking to gank/take on mission runners. Yes a Solo BS is probably the best way to go about it if you are alone. If you were looking for 'actual' pvp (aka; Verus another ship(s) w/ a pvp fit) then you would do a lot better without a BS. Norrin Ellis > What?! Boobs aren't inappropriate! They feed children! For God's sake, think of the children!
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.22 14:52:00 - [64] Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 22/04/2009 14:53:09 Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Caldari is by far the best solo race, minmatar would take that role imo. Lol you sir have absolutely no clue about eve ships. Show me one Caldari ship that can beat my domi 1v1 for example. Clearly I mispelled. Minmatar got the better solo ships. (It should have been easy to understand from the rest of the sentance, but it seems I was tired at the time and made conflicting points :P) Oh, and you "1v1" domi idea is stupid, since when have there ever been any "1v1" in EvE? Thats not how ot works. And yeah, I could beat it easily if I wanted, but I don't like to fly BS sized ships that much, and thus I don't have an awful lot of SP in BS sixed stuff as I do medium. Neut Domi is good (you are flying Netus, aren't you? Anything else is fail if you take it solo), but not unbeatable.
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.04.22 16:07:00 - [65] Caldari = Worst solo , difficult to tackle Caldari = Worst fleet , dellayed damage is meh Caldari = good for ew / tank in small gang ops. Caldari ships are weakest for PvP overall imo. Missiles need a damage boost there far too week atm versus guns. My tech I lvl3 projectiles outdamage my techII lvl 4 specced missiles class for class in real combat situation. Kinetic dmg bonus is worthless in 75% of encounters needs changing. some ships need more mids / less lows so ships can fit tackle. Having said that there not as bad as amarr used to be before the amarr love patch, but its long overdue that ccp got round to looking at caldari pvp. when your asking for best ships types are you asking about pve ?
brutoid Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.22 16:27:00 - [66] Originally by: Incantare I'll tell you why I picked Caldari as a starting race back when I knew nothing about the game: it's the description. It made the sound like the most badass and pvp oriented of the four empires and I suspect the same can be said for many other new players who picked the race. ^^ This.
AnKahn Caldari The Giant Squid Corp.	Posted - 2009.04.22 17:20:00 - [67] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Caldari is by far the best solo race, minmatar would take that role imo. Lol you sir have absolutely no clue about eve ships. Show me one Caldari ship that can beat my domi 1v1 for example. I don't post usually anymore but could not let this one go. I can beat a Nuet Domi easy with a totally passive Drake. It can get away only because it will shut down the disrupter. I can beat a blaster Domi easy with a torp/nuet Rokh. It can get away because sheild tank/ mids / duh no tackle But it's a stupid argument because 1v1 is a game of rock/paper/scissors.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.04.22 17:20:00 - [68] My first character was Caldari due to all the newbie starter guides using Civire as the example character creation for the best skills (900k SP or so, back before the new player skill revamp). Nowadays they all say pick Achura (even though that info is also outdated).
Dasquirrel715 Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.04.22 17:27:00 - [69] Originally by: fuxinos [ Fleet: Caldari > Amarr > Minmatar/Gallente Someone's never been in a 200 pilot+ sniper BS fight!
AnKahn Caldari The Giant Squid Corp.	Posted - 2009.04.22 17:45:00 - [70] Originally by: The Tzar Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Caldari is by far the best solo race, minmatar would take that role imo. Lol you sir have absolutely no clue about eve ships. Show me one Caldari ship that can beat my domi 1v1 for example. Confirming that my active tanked, neut torp rokh will cream all over your domi 1v1. Sorry I was beat to this point. Most bored PvPers know this kind of stuff sir.
Indium oxide Gallente Unnatural Growth OUTWORLD SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.04.22 19:15:00 - [71] again, alot of what im seeing here is that gallenete is weaker than almost everyone else, im sure this has alot to do with what some one flies, but my main concern is that my gallente character wont be a floating target. im new to the game and all i can fly is a cruiser, destroyer, and frigate, im working toward my t2 frig right now. i want to be useful as a tech 2 gallente ewar frig
Incantare	Posted - 2009.04.22 19:29:00 - [72] Once upon a time Gallente were top dogs with their nos domis (**** those), five ogre nos-damp myrms, instant drone shield recharge, 50% damage bonused carrier/mom and some other stuff I'm forgetting. The race was disgustingly overpowered and has been taking repeated kicks in the guts since making it the Gallente you know today. They'll get buffed again, eventually.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.22 20:01:00 - [73] Originally by: Dav Varan Caldari = Worst solo , difficult to tackle Caldari = Worst fleet , dellayed damage is meh Caldari = good for ew / tank in small gang ops. Caldari ships are weakest for PvP overall imo. Missiles need a damage boost there far too week atm versus guns. My tech I lvl3 projectiles outdamage my techII lvl 4 specced missiles class for class in real combat situation. Kinetic dmg bonus is worthless in 75% of encounters needs changing. some ships need more mids / less lows so ships can fit tackle. Having said that there not as bad as amarr used to be before the amarr love patch, but its long overdue that ccp got round to looking at caldari pvp. when your asking for best ships types are you asking about pve ? You do realise caldari got enough turret ships for fleet pvp? --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.04.22 20:25:00 - [74] Originally by: Dav Varan Caldari = Worst fleet , dellayed damage is meh […] Missiles need a damage boost there far too week atm versus guns […] Kinetic dmg bonus is worthless in 75% of encounters needs changing. Riiiight… because missiles is all the Caldari ships can ever fit, right? Time to repost that old list… Non-missile ships Harpy – Hybrids. Ferox – Hybrids + Launcher + 5+ Drones. Rokh – Hybrids + Launchers + 5+ Drones. Scorpion – Turrets + Launchers + 5+ Drones. Chimera – More drones than your mom can handle. Vulture – Hybrids + Launchers + 5+ Drones. Blackbird – Turrets + Launchers. Moa – Hybrids + Launchers + 3+ Drones. Osprey – Turrets + Launchers + 4+ Drones. Cormorant – Hybrids + Launcher. Falcon – Turrets + Launchers + 2+ Drones. Bantam – Turrets + 1+ Drone. Merlin – Hybrids + Launchers. Eagle – Hybrids + Launchers. Badger – Turret. Badger Mk II – Turret. Raptor – Hybrids + Launchers. Wyvern – More drones than your mom and her dog can handle. Missile + Drone ships Drake – Missiles + 5+ Drones. Raven – Missiles + 5+ Drones. Widow – Missiles + 5+ Drones. Nighthawk – Missiles (+ turret) + 5+ Drones. Caracal – Missiles (+ turrets) + 2+ Drones. Phoenix – Missiles (+ turret) + 5+ Drones. Griffin – Missiles (+ turret) + 1+ Drone. Heron – Missiles (+ turret) + 1+ Drone. Basilisk ± Missiles (+ turret) + 5+ Drones. Golem – Missiles + 5+ Drones. Leviathan – Missiles + 5+ Drones. Rook — Missiles + 5+ Drones. Missile ships with turret slots Buzzard. Kitsune. Condor. Crow. Flycatcher. Manticore. Missile-only ships Hawk. Kestrel. Cerberus. Onyx. Crane. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.04.22 20:59:00 - [75] lol guys, you are funny
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.04.22 21:22:00 - [76] Originally by: Dav Varan Caldari = Worst solo , difficult to tackle Caldari = Worst fleet , dellayed damage is meh Caldari = good for ew / tank in small gang ops. Caldari ships are weakest for PvP overall imo. lolwat
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.04.22 22:07:00 - [77] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Dav Varan Caldari = Worst solo , difficult to tackle Caldari = Worst fleet , dellayed damage is meh Caldari = good for ew / tank in small gang ops. Caldari ships are weakest for PvP overall imo. lolwat Hmm, might let 'worst solo' pass, but primarily because there's a shortage of decent soloing cruisers. And the HAC lineup doesn't do so well either, because they're not that kind of ship. Fleet? Nah, fleet they're fine - Rokh's a good sniper, Scorp's a a good jammer, and then there's probably the best selection of 'support' in the Caldari lineup ( Ewar, and anti-support HACs). They do suffer somewhat from RR gangs though, is the place where the weakness is biggest IMO. And I think in turn that's down to the absurd fitting requirements of shield tranporters - 156 CPU is hard to fit on anything, where the 32 cpu, 600 grid large reps are ... quite comfortable on a BS. Caldari ships aren't weakest for PvP, they're just weakest for PvP if you want to slap them together in a disorganised blob. But oddly, disorganised blobs aren't generally very powerful anyway.
Poena Loveless Minmatar Dawn of a new Empire	Posted - 2009.04.22 22:12:00 - [78] Originally by: Indium oxide Edited by: Indium oxide on 21/04/2009 23:40:41 I dont really understand why every time i ask for the best of a certain type of ship the standard response is a caldari ship? Unless i am mistaken there are 3 other races out there and im sure that they all dont suck compared to caldari, otherwise the game would be broken I've been Caldari spec'd from the start, so you got two options and you only get to choose one: A) Nice stealth troll B) What game have you been playing?
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.22 22:13:00 - [79] Edited by: Esmenet on 22/04/2009 22:13:32 Its more like Amarr >>>>>>>>>>>>>caldari=minmatar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gallente atm. And yea this is my sig. Real PVP'ers only use f1.
Ivan Kinsikor Amarr Void Engineers	Posted - 2009.04.22 22:29:00 - [80] Originally by: Incantare Originally by: Ivan Kinsikor Caldari has got some good stuff, but the real reason they're so god damn popular is because they are the best starting race for carebearing. So naturally you'll get a ton of Caldari pilots piping up. I'll tell you why I picked Caldari as a starting race back when I knew nothing about the game: it's the description. It made the sound like the most badass and pvp oriented of the four empires and I suspect the same can be said for many other new players who picked the race. I always thought the Amarr were more awesome sounding personally. Holy purification of the infidels via massive death rays? Sign me up! Course, I got no room to talk anyway I've got a Caldari carebear alt currently training for a Cerb . ---------------------------------------- *****es don't know 'bout my nano'd Titan ----------------------------------------
Illectroculus Defined	Posted - 2009.04.23 00:40:00 - [81] Originally by: Indium oxide Edited by: Indium oxide on 21/04/2009 23:40:41 I dont really understand why every time i ask for the best of a certain type of ship the standard response is a caldari ship? Unless i am mistaken there are 3 other races out there and im sure that they all dont suck compared to caldari, otherwise the game would be broken The truth is, people tend to like to boost their avatar's racial ships early on, sure there are a lot of 'grass is greener' types, but people don't want to look stupid by suggesting the best ships in the game aren't the one's they're able to fly. And of course there are a huge proportion of pilots who created Achuras because of the low charisma attribute. So, that's really what's going on. Myself, I think I picked Caldari because I could make the portrait look a lot like myself. Worked out pretty well because I specialised in mining and caldari do have the best mining cruiser (and technically the best mining battleship).
Neriken	Posted - 2009.04.23 02:33:00 - [82]
Karezan	Posted - 2009.04.23 03:11:00 - [83] Caldari typically has a more specialized role in terms of PvP ships, and some of them struggle to fit typical PvP mid slots (tackle/etc) while also maintaining a tank. The issue is having the slots spread out vs having them focused. An armor tank can use his ~3-4 mids on pvp stuff (mwd, tackle, cap booster if active, sebo, eccm, etc), and then have 5-8 lows available for a strong armor tank, with the option of skipping a few tank slots for some gank. For a shield tank, if you get those same "essential" pvp mods, you're down to only a few slots in your mid for shield tanking, and then a few lows as well. Basically, where the armor tank uses up his mids for his pvp stuff and then gets a large number of lows for tank/gank, the shield tank ship ends up with a half and half type of deal, a few lows, a few mids, too few of either for a significant tank, and low slots lack utility beyond DCU and gank mods. That's not a flat out rule, just a tendency with Caldari ships. When using passive or buffer tanks, shield tanks can have the advantage as well. A good example is looking at hics. They were designed to tackle supercaps and be able to survive DD's. To be able to survive DD's, you need a buffer tank, not an active tank. At the same time, you also want to be able to take a bit of dps without entirely relying on the buffer if possible (since a buffer eventually runs out). Shield tanks allow you do to both. A buffered shield tank is also a fairly good passive tank. A buffered armor tank cannot recover any damage it's taken without RR. In that case the shield tank is actually favored. In terms of BS fleet platforms, I don't entirely agree the rokh is on par with the apoc. The rokh hits sniper range without any type of optimal range mods, which is great, but there's not that much you can do with those mods saved. You can tank a DD, yeah, but when was the last time a single DD was deployed if a fleet was bubbled? Even the smaller alliances these days can easily field 2 titans, and the rokh can't tank 2 DD's. Sure there are times only a single DD might be used, or times where that buffer is enough time for the rokh to warp out instead of popping when primaried, but it's not some insane advantage. The apoc has to spend a few mods to get the same range as the rokh, it can't tank a DD, but it does a good bit more damage, and is cheaper (although this is mostly negated by insurance). Same for the mega, a bit more damage, slightly lower range (still fleet sniper range), can't tank a DD, and again cheaper (mostly negated by insurance). The mega also looks sexier, and you can't put a price on that. I'll agree the Rokh is nice, but it's not some decisively better ship. It simply has more EHP, but not more damage or a higher alpha (which are typically the things wanted most out of sniper ships, rather than their ability to tank). The ability to tank a doomsday can help, but considering how common double or even triple DD's are these days, when it comes to your fleet getting caught, it's more likely to save your pod than your ship.
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.04.23 09:15:00 - [84] Originally by: Karezan I'll agree the Rokh is nice, but it's not some decisively better ship. It simply has more EHP, but not more damage or a higher alpha (which are typically the things wanted most out of sniper ships, rather than their ability to tank). The ability to tank a doomsday can help, but considering how common double or even triple DD's are these days, when it comes to your fleet getting caught, it's more likely to save your pod than your ship. Unless I am wrong, Rokh can be set up to tank a double DD without much of a problem.
Karezan	Posted - 2009.04.23 13:02:00 - [85] Originally by: Ig Neus Originally by: Karezan I'll agree the Rokh is nice, but it's not some decisively better ship. It simply has more EHP, but not more damage or a higher alpha (which are typically the things wanted most out of sniper ships, rather than their ability to tank). The ability to tank a doomsday can help, but considering how common double or even triple DD's are these days, when it comes to your fleet getting caught, it's more likely to save your pod than your ship. Unless I am wrong, Rokh can be set up to tank a double DD without much of a problem. You can for a single damage type, so if you know ahead of time you'll face 2 of the same DD it can be done. If you want to tank 2 damage types, it looks like you'll have to make some sort of sacrifice over the typical sniper setup (by that I mean 3xdmg mod, 1xDCU, mwd, 2xsebo). Or at least, I couldn't get the EHP over 140k for 2 different damage types on EFT. It also doesn't help that the two most common types of DD (em/therm) are the two lowest shield resists.
Thorian Baalnorn	Posted - 2009.04.23 14:44:00 - [86] i love these racial threads even though this one is a bit odd since its not a caldari suck thread. Really your getting other peoples preferences. What really matters is how you fit/use the ships your flying. alot of people look for the iwin ships. i fly 75% caldari ships, they dont suck people just dont use them correctly. each race has its strong points and weak points. Amarr ------ good= heavy dps great sniper range good "ewar"( considering neut/nos a form of ewar) Bad= suck cap like no tomorrow, turrets only do EM/therm Minitar -------- Good= best speed, most verstile bad= suffers from jack of all trades master of none( except speed) Gallente --------- Good= decent turret dps and insane dronebays/BW Bad= Their t2s arent really that good. turrets only do thermal/kinetic Caldari -------- Good= Ewar, PVE,most versitle engagement range, great alpha. Bad= SLOW,DPS* Because many look for the obvious "IWIN" ship caldari are often overlooked as viable pvp ship. Missles do have alot of advantages that are often overlooked in pvp. Those are: Range:missles are effective from max range all the way down to 0 km. This allows you to pick your engagement range basically using range as tank(AB/MWD required). DPS: you dont sacarfice DPS to change ranges. If i hit for 200 dam a pop at 1km ill hit the same target at 50km for 200 damage a pop with the same exact missle. I dont have to spend my time putting into range or worrying about changing ammo types mid engagement. DAMAGE TYPE: missles are the only ammo that can do all 4 damage types without any drawbacks. If you use them right your always hitting against their weakest resist. Missles do have drawbacks. But they arent near as bad as everyone makes them out to be. and i find shield tanking to be superior to armor tanking. i can get more tank with less work on caldari than i can any other race.
Indium oxide Gallente Unnatural Growth OUTWORLD SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.04.24 00:27:00 - [87] I understand that each race has its ups and its downs, i picked caldari because i like the hybrid turret, and the drones. In the games i have played in the past i have always prefered a crowd control or healing class. In this case i found EWAR the most interesting. I am looking to contenue this role from tech 2 all the way up the line, even tho gallenete doesnt have EWAR BS. anyway i have been looking for some direction for my tech 2 fintting and all im getting is people telling me that caldari is the race to be for EWAR. so is there anything anyone can tell me to help make this work would be awesome. Also why is gallente the last on everyones list of good ships? Signature: The new authority on PvP
Trader20	Posted - 2009.04.24 01:21:00 - [88] If you solo pvp....ur doin it wrong, Eve is a gang pvp game. That being said, Caldari's "king of fleet standard" is such bullsh*t. Caldari have the best ewar (nerfed to oblivion) and one of the best sniper boats (rohk), but that's where it's "fleet advantage" stops. Any good gang will have armor rr and that is where Caldari fail. Until every gang starts using shield rr or Caldari gets more low slots for armor mods then it will be a sub-par race to pvp with. Funny how Caldari are king of PvE but everyone I know uses a domi for missions.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2009.04.24 05:43:00 - [89] Originally by: Draeca BECAUSE OF FALCON I can't believe this thread came to a second page before someone posted this.. ..also, successful troll OP is successful. - This space for rent
Mystafyre Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.24 05:56:00 - [90] Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 22/04/2009 04:51:36 As for Caldari, their ships mainly suck when it comes down to a fight with same sized ships. Erm, what?
Gefex Genco Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.24 07:29:00 - [91] When everyone whines at about the same volume then balance is close to being met. I'd say they aren't far off.
Traderboz	Posted - 2009.04.24 08:07:00 - [92] Originally by: Gefex When everyone whines at about the same volume then balance is close to being met. I'd say they aren't far off. Well... 3 of the races are whining. Amarr players are conveniently silent.
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2009.04.24 16:20:00 - [93] Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn i love these racial threads even though this one is a bit odd since its not a caldari suck thread. Really your getting other peoples preferences. What really matters is how you fit/use the ships your flying. alot of people look for the iwin ships. i fly 75% caldari ships, they dont suck people just dont use them correctly. each race has its strong points and weak points. Amarr ------ good= heavy dps great sniper range good "ewar"( considering neut/nos a form of ewar) Bad= suck cap like no tomorrow, turrets only do EM/therm Minitar -------- Good= best speed, most verstile bad= suffers from jack of all trades master of none( except speed) Gallente --------- Good= decent turret dps and insane dronebays/BW Bad= Their t2s arent really that good. turrets only do thermal/kinetic Caldari -------- Good= Ewar, PVE,most versitle engagement range, great alpha. Bad= SLOW,DPS* Because many look for the obvious "IWIN" ship caldari are often overlooked as viable pvp ship. Missles do have alot of advantages that are often overlooked in pvp. Those are: Range:missles are effective from max range all the way down to 0 km. This allows you to pick your engagement range basically using range as tank(AB/MWD required). DPS: you dont sacarfice DPS to change ranges. If i hit for 200 dam a pop at 1km ill hit the same target at 50km for 200 damage a pop with the same exact missle. I dont have to spend my time putting into range or worrying about changing ammo types mid engagement. DAMAGE TYPE: missles are the only ammo that can do all 4 damage types without any drawbacks. If you use them right your always hitting against their weakest resist. Missles do have drawbacks. But they arent near as bad as everyone makes them out to be. and i find shield tanking to be superior to armor tanking. i can get more tank with less work on caldari than i can any other race. No offence, but you even know this game? Projectiles do also all damage types, yes in a different way then missiles, but reloading 10 seconds = a penalty. Amarr for example doesnt have that. Amarr cap problems? Not when you get GOOD/SUPERB skills, sorry but you only get better then other races then. Minmatar: underestimated: explosive damage is powerfull and they have all damage types if they want it. Gallente: your bad point about them, also count for 50 percent of the caldari ships, but those ships have even lower drone bays and bandwith. So why isnt it listed at caldari either? Caldari: good alpha??? thats the biggest joke ever: caldari are the least used race in fleet warfare, due to NOT having any alpha, their missiles are always too late. Looking at the rokh, it isnt that good with damage, it has good optimal however, but suffers from cap use for shields and turrets. Your bad point of amarr, counts even better for the caldari railboats. Even with good skills shield tanking is less efficient then armor tanking, means bigger cap issues, then on amarr boats. Missile are not effective from 0km to their end. In reality they are ineffective from 0km to their end, why? Their penalties are so hardcapped, that even with maximum skills, you cant overcome a lot of the penalties. Cruise missiles max. explosion velocity with implants/rigs and all are even below a lot of the speeds of BS ships, very silly, since cruise were meant vs cruisers even in the beginning..... BC didnt even exist. So if you hit a small ship for 20 damage, you ALWAYS hit it for 20 damage. Compared to a turret user: he wont hit it on very small range, but after a certain range and depending on how target moves, he goes back to his MAXIMUM damage, means instant popping a lot of ships. Average, this situation is better. I compared damage on a maximum cruise pilot with rigs and implant and vs an amarr char, that was not that high trained. The amarr char would do the same damage as raven pilot vs a small target with 1 volley and 34 misses

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