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Kazzac Elentria
   |
Posted - 2009.05.13 14:09:00 -
[271]
I'll be finishing up my end here by COB today assuming no one bothers me during my lunch hour. |
Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.13 14:13:00 -
[272]
Edited by: Ji Sama on 13/05/2009 14:36:48
Thank you Bobby and Kazzac.
@ Bobby... I have a place for the POS, just want this audit business to be over before giving you the go to set it up :D
EDIT: Also regarding the POS, i only took the labs down, and invested in a new control tower. So we still have a low sec pos somewhere out there..
However should it be lost, IPO funds will not be used to replace it, ie. it is not a liability to the investors...
 Quote:
The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.13 14:44:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Ji Sama
Also regarding the POS, i only took the labs down, and invested in a new control tower. So we still have a low sec pos somewhere out there..
However should it be lost, IPO funds will not be used to replace it, ie. it is not a liability to the investors...
Thanks for the clarification Ji.
This brings me to a related point that I could not mention until this fact was made public:
Brock, how did you not notice the low-sec POS when performing your audit?
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:46:00 -
[274]
You can find my audit report here.
This is also the half official roll out of evefas |
brutoid
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:08:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
You can find my audit report here.
This is also the half official roll out of evefas
Thanks, looks to be a great format.
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Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:11:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
You can find my audit report here.
This is also the half official roll out of evefas
thank you for that, will comment shortly.
Good work Kazzac.
I want to thank escpecially Caleb and SCS for making this happen.
I also wanna thank Shar, Keyser & Brock for helping me out here.
And lastly to the man of the day, once more thank you Kazzac for stepping in and getting the job done.
Expenses associated with IPO launch 1.5B ISK
First dividend payment on 8th of june.
Quote:
The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
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Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:18:00 -
[277]
Answering Kazzacs concerns in this post.
Overall my sales ie. profit has been smaller this week because of my vacation.
Also since ive used some funds to secure this IPO, these havent been availeble to me.
In regards to the time barrier, i am aware that i cant keep on scalling forever,
i am also aware that i have reached with this IPO my maximum capacity.
In regards to investment in the secondary market, i am aware of the fact that this is a liability,
and i will make sure that any losses wont effect the investors.
I will also try to minimize the dependency on secondary market.
In regards to management fees and apanache. There currently are no plans that i should recieve any payment for this.
When this whole thing closes down, i will ofcourse take a piece of the pie.
But that piece will only be taken after all investors have been bought out.
In case of a burn out or the posibility that i am hit by a bus etc.
There are more than enough assets to cover the buy back of all shares, within a reasonable timeframe... (not more than 1 week imo)
Also with the securities in place, there should really not be any problem.
Biggest risk is still me running with the ISK.
This IPO is now launched.
Buy back at 95% is active.
Next economic report scheduled for the 28th of may.
Next general report scheduled for 2nd of june.
Dividend scheduled for the 8th of june.
Lastly i want to thank all the investors for being patient and very supportive.
I wont let you down.
Quote:
The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente
TarNec
Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:31:00 -
[278]
42600 SHARES distributed.
Reservations pending processing 6400
Isk transfered to Ji Sama totalling 21.3 Billion
Any SHARES left will be for sale at 100% or highest bidder when reservation list is concluded.
- Money is Love -
Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways.
Feed your Brain:
Innovation Thread |
Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:33:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania
42600 SHARES distributed.
Reservations pending processing 6400
Isk transfered to Ji Sama totalling 21.3 Billion
Any SHARES left will be for sale at 100% or highest bidder when reservation list is concluded.
Confirming receipt of 21.3 Billion ISK
Quote:
The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
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Ricdic
Caldari
Tleilex Developments
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.13 23:41:00 -
[280]
Let's talk about this a little bit:
Quote:
This plan involves heavy investment in secondary market. It has been uncovered that Ji Sama has an alt who is CEO of an known investment corporation. It may be relevant to mention if this alt corporation has any involvement in this particular plan.
Quote:
This was a big red flag IMHO, and while TMP is not propped up by these investments at all, there is a secondary risk because of this. Technically anything that could happen to this investment corporation can affect TMP as well. Something investors should weigh heavily. IÆll leave Ji Sama to explain this out in detail and any risk mitigation that has or will be taken.
So according to the above, you are an alt of someone here who runs a public IPO/Bond already? How much is that bond valued at? Who is the character? I think previous bond/ipo history and listing of current operations is crucial and extremely important.
I don't want to throw 30b at someone who already has an 80b bond here. So please advise, I don't think it's fair to keep something as integral as this hidden in a corner. How well does the other IPO/Bond perform? Are investors happy? Has it been meeting stated returns? Exceeding Returns? Is it secured? If so how much?
It is quite disturbing seeing the lack of people on MD questioning these kinds of thing, most notably that investors aren't even asking the questions. Frankly I think these so called investors enjoy gambling more than they do investing.
Nothing against Ji Sama here but we need to know what public operations you are currently running. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.14 01:22:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Ricdic
Nothing against Ji Sama here but we need to know what public operations you are currently running.
Agreed, and Im glad Ric pointed it out.
I hate being the judge and jury and much rather prefer to just be the information presenter. |
Lo Lightshard
Insurrection Inc
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.14 02:10:00 -
[282]
Also, those funds were released pretty quickly. I'd guess investors would hope that "pending audit" means "pending a clean audit".
Basically, the audit became a formality when Ji's mate had yo money?
[IMA6E REMOVED] |
Gabriel Virtus
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.05.14 02:39:00 -
[283]
I am sorry, but when did investors get a chance to decide if after the audit was complete, that we were alright with the funds being released. It seems a bit strange that "pending an audit" means as soon as the audit is done, funds will automatically be released and everything is fine. There were serious concerns raised in both of the audits and this might have changed the mind of some of the investors. You should still offer buyback for a week in order to make sure the shareholders were actually satisfied with the audit and alright for the funds to be released.
So... many... mistakes. Having an undisclosed toon and investment corporation is a bit much. Having the investment corp and not releasing any information about said investment corp including previous offerings and investor testimonials is even more. Anyway, buyback should still be offered at full cost until the investors can judge whether the audit satisfied their problems with the IPO offering.
-GV
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.05.14 03:29:00 -
[284]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 14/05/2009 03:29:42
Blueprint Store |
Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2009.05.14 04:16:00 -
[285]
Well, no one should really be complaining about the funds being released IMO. None of you specified the circumstances behind the funds being released other than "pending audit" or some other such wording. Also, and this isn't a cut against Caleb as it could happen to anyone, but this is why I didn't understand the need to involve a broker or third party to hold the isk until the audit was done. Wait for the audit, look at audit, decide to transfer your isk or not transfer your isk based on audit results and the response to the audit. You guys totally went out of order for god knows why.
Quote:
Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.05.14 04:17:00 -
[286]
Quote:
So according to the above, you are an alt of someone here who runs a public IPO/Bond already? How much is that bond valued at? Who is the character? I think previous bond/ipo history and listing of current operations is crucial and extremely important.
Given the fact that the all his alts are listed, shouldn't one be able to figure it out by oneself? It's a fact that Ji Sama is a main, so Ji Sama can't be an alt of a main.
If it's NOT the case that the alt in question isn't listed there, then the auditor sure didn't do his job good enough at pointing that out.
And I don't think that investment corporation == IPO/Bond. IPO's and bonds are specific to the secondary market and the market discussion forum especially.
Quote:
I don't want to throw 30b at someone who already has an 80b bond here.
This comment had me a laughing a bit. You aren't going to throw 30bill at this anyways, especially seeing as the WHOLE IPO itself is valued at less than 25bill. 
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2009.05.14 04:26:00 -
[287]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Quote:
So according to the above, you are an alt of someone here who runs a public IPO/Bond already? How much is that bond valued at? Who is the character? I think previous bond/ipo history and listing of current operations is crucial and extremely important.
Given the fact that the all his alts are listed, shouldn't one be able to figure it out by oneself? It's a fact that Ji Sama is a main, so Ji Sama can't be an alt of a main.
If it's NOT the case that the alt in question isn't listed there, then the auditor sure didn't do his job good enough at pointing that out.
And I don't think that investment corporation == IPO/Bond. IPO's and bonds are specific to the secondary market and the market discussion forum especially.
Quote:
I don't want to throw 30b at someone who already has an 80b bond here.
This comment had me a laughing a bit. You aren't going to throw 30bill at this anyways, especially seeing as the WHOLE IPO itself is valued at less than 25bill.
Maybe you two could get a room? Lots of back and forth lately, getting really old.
Quote:
Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
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Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.14 13:06:00 -
[288]
There are no undisclosed main, Ji Sama is my main, you can only have one main character.
The CEO in question was disclosed on page 1 aswell as in Calebs and Brocks reports.
If any investors feel i have not been forthcomming with information regarding this IPO.
They are free to exhange their shares at cost. i.e. 100%
I have had nothing but support from my investors, i could not have wished for this IPO to have launched in any other way, i want to thank all who contributed with support and feedback.
Quote:
The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente
TarNec
Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2009.05.14 15:26:00 -
[289]
Just wanted a chance to explain why I released the funds as fast as I did.
The reason for freezing the assets was to secure the investors for any scams or wrong numbers disclosed by Ji Sama initially. This was the security offered by the broker. Thus I ofc waited for the conclusive audit report, to see if there was any reasons for me not to release the funds. Since everything looked nice and no alarms where set of I opted to release the funds to TMP, so they could start working and not loose further earnings due to the lack of assets.
The red flag raised was concerning Merotech, since this is an affiliate business of Ji Samas's I would ofc expect any cross comapny business to be posted if and when needed.
As far as I was informed Merotech is for future endeavours in the secondary market, but with no noteworthy activity atm.
In conclusion had there been a more valid reason to keep the funds frozen for investor buyback, ofc I would have kept that window open longer. I believe granting TMP the funds to start earning the money for the investors was a better choice.
- Money is Love -
Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways.
Feed your Brain:
Innovation Thread |
Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:02:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania
Just wanted a chance to explain why I released the funds as fast as I did.
The reason for freezing the assets was to secure the investors for any scams or wrong numbers disclosed by Ji Sama initially. This was the security offered by the broker. Thus I ofc waited for the conclusive audit report, to see if there was any reasons for me not to release the funds. Since everything looked nice and no alarms where set of I opted to release the funds to TMP, so they could start working and not loose further earnings due to the lack of assets.
The red flag raised was concerning Merotech, since this is an affiliate business of Ji Samas's I would ofc expect any cross comapny business to be posted if and when needed.
As far as I was informed Merotech is for future endeavours in the secondary market, but with no noteworthy activity atm.
In conclusion had there been a more valid reason to keep the funds frozen for investor buyback, ofc I would have kept that window open longer. I believe granting TMP the funds to start earning the money for the investors was a better choice.
Ultimately the issue here is the whole brokerage concept that you have embraced is a total waste of time offering no security and increased risk.
Investors are not able to trust you based on reputation because you have not yet built one. Investors are not able to trust you due to any other security layer in your operation because there isn't one. Investors are not able to consider your service as working for them because you are clearly working for the IPO issuer and respond to their demands rather than those of the investors, if this was not the case then you would have asked for explicit confirmation from the investors prior to releasing the funds. Even if you performed the role of broker properly, then you would just add another delay into the process of getting funds from investor to investee once due dillegence was performed.
Add all that to the fact that each investor could have held on to their isk until they were satisfied by the audit or any other concerns they may have had and then transferred this isk themselves... and you have a non-service adding an additional layer of liability to an endeavour that does not need it.
You're welcome to develop a brokerage service, but you need to actually find a need that has to be filled and develop the reputation and skills required to fill it.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:37:00 -
[291]
If anyone only invests "pending audit" they should keep their cash.
The OP can take reservations, pending audit, and once complete people can send their reservation money.
What has the broker done in this case???
Someone of no rep has held cash, and after the audit immediately handed it over. I thought successful audit meant that the OP would first answer any questions arising from audit. Not in this case, just hand the cash over.
Good luck to Ji Sama on this IPO but if any investors lose money you only have yourselves to blame on how you handled the IPO reservation process.
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente
TarNec
Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2009.05.14 17:45:00 -
[292]
This IPO have been rather victim to some unforeseen issues.
The thing with developing a brokerage service is supposedly to streamline and speed up the process, and to make it possible for the issuer to save some time and work. I think that is rather obvious in the "service" part of the name. In addition it is supposed to add a level of security in case of a faulty offering, and a reason to suspect a scam or a lack of ability to generate the suggested profit and payouts.
In this IPO the service have hammered into quite a few walls, walls that should not normally be an issue. Auditor problems being among the main problems.
All that aside I see some rather interesting developments in the direction of the secondary markets with what is on the horizon. More streamlined services and consulting options. SCS and EVE-FAS, and ofc the already existing line of parties, dbank, ebank, real time exchange etc. With the coming ebank exchange service all these different aspects will have the possibility to bring a lot of interesting new opertunities and business to the New Eden Economy.
That is my personal conclusion to this bumpy IPO ride. I hope I am not the only one with such naive eyes on the events.
- Money is Love -
Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways.
Feed your Brain:
Innovation Thread |
Bonhomme Carnaval
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Posted - 2009.05.14 19:05:00 -
[293]
Edited by: Bonhomme Carnaval on 14/05/2009 19:11:26
Edited by: Bonhomme Carnaval on 14/05/2009 19:09:33
Originally by: cosmoray
If anyone only invests "pending audit" they should keep their cash.
The OP can take reservations, pending audit, and once complete people can send their reservation money.
What has the broker done in this case???
Someone of no rep has held cash, and after the audit immediately handed it over. I thought successful audit meant that the OP would first answer any questions arising from audit. Not in this case, just hand the cash over.
Good luck to Ji Sama on this IPO but if any investors lose money you only have yourselves to blame on how you handled the IPO reservation process.
I hope you're talking about the investors being to blame, not the IPO handlers (note that I agree Caleb seemed to be pretty much unnecessary in this whole thing).
On the other hand, here are two meaningful paragraphs where the second is made pretty solid by the first.
Originally by: Ji Sama
If any investors feel i have not been forthcomming with information regarding this IPO.
They are free to exhange their shares at cost. i.e. 100%
I have had nothing but support from my investors
I never thought someone who tried to launch a 1 trillion ISK IPO could be legit but hey, what do you know... I think if this was a scam we'd know about it now. 
Kudos to Ji for doing something about the problems that come up instead of denying them or apologizing uselessly like some would do. (reffering to the 100% buyback offer for unsatisfied investors). |
Alex555
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Posted - 2009.05.14 20:13:00 -
[294]
Edited by: Alex555 on 14/05/2009 20:14:42
Sorry for being dumb,
but IÆve covered 10 pages and still got no idea what are u guys planning to do with isks.
Now seriously
What is this "Our marketing plan is based on more than 1 year of market research and analysis" or this "Our innovation long term plan is to expand the corporation into many branches; these branches are focused on meta-gaming."
What does the phrase - "meta-gaming" - suppose to mean?
Really, I didn't get it
Then u say something about R&D. That's more or less clear for me.
And then in the end u have got me with this - "Our investment plan is easy to understand. We simply invest in the secondary market and the revenue that get us is an extra profit to the corp".
Why have I read all above written if your plan was about to be the simpliest in eve universe :).
One more serious thing now :)
What are the guarantees for return of investments? There are a lot of scam on IPO market right now. And what would happen if u experience failure with your investments.
What is the main aim of this IPO? Create a new product?
Or in the end of the first month u say that sorry guys I was wrong with my calculation and I am ready to buyback all your shares at 95%.
Pretty cool tbh.
It makes 1,25 of pure profit for simply doing nothing.
Do not get me too personal, but I was just trying to analyze your IPO.
And frankly speaking I didn't get how u would repay investors 100% + dividends. Due to the fact that u r not going to produce/create anything.
Buy high/sell low is a great thing, but I guess it is a bit hard to base IPO on that
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Bonhomme Carnaval
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Posted - 2009.05.14 20:37:00 -
[295]
Edited by: Bonhomme Carnaval on 14/05/2009 20:37:53
Originally by: Alex555
Buy high/sell low is a great thing, but I guess it is a bit hard to base IPO on that
I agree that buying high and selling low is not profitable enough to pay the investment + dividends + reasonable profit.
(now I understand why some people try to trade and give up after losing their starting capital  ) |
Gabriel Virtus
hirr
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 22:31:00 -
[296]
Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 14/05/2009 22:36:02
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Well, no one should really be complaining about the funds being released IMO. None of you specified the circumstances behind the funds being released other than "pending audit" or some other such wording. Also, and this isn't a cut against Caleb as it could happen to anyone, but this is why I didn't understand the need to involve a broker or third party to hold the isk until the audit was done. Wait for the audit, look at audit, decide to transfer your isk or not transfer your isk based on audit results and the response to the audit. You guys totally went out of order for god knows why.
Under the same logic, the money should be released no matter what once there is an audit performed... any audit, by anyone... and even if the audit returned saying that a scam was likey. I think it is reasonable to assume that when someone says "pending an audit" they mean pending a satisfactory audit by a trusted member of the MD community.
Under this circumstance, with a broker involved ( I do not agree that the broker added any sort of insurance and in fact increased the risk two-fold), the broker should have asked for the approval of the investors to release funds to the IPO. The reservations should have just kept their money until the IPO was actually going online.
I am not trying to insult Caleb or Ji, I just think the broker was done by someone clearly on the side of the IPO offerer and provided no additional security. I think the 100% buyback that Ji offered for unhappy investors a couple of posts ago was all that needed to eliminate this concern.
-GV
edit: I cant spell for ****
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Ricdic
Caldari
Tleilex Developments
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.15 00:55:00 -
[297]
Ok main things to learn from this:
1) The broker option added an extra layer of risk with no real benefit
2) Sending funds after completion of audit without conditions imposed is an issue (would have been avoided anyway if number 1 wasn't in use)
3) The investment corporation probably should have been listed or at least clarified. From speaking with LaVista it seems it's just a private investment amongst friends. Had this been clarified (either in audit or prior) I wouldn't have requested all that extra information. I thought it was a regular public operation Meredian? was running on.
4) Audit Delays caused confusion however were unavoidable.
A few other things
Now this could have failed spectacularly. Current investors need to count their lucky stars. This could have easily backfired on a few of the points above and all your cash could have been lost. You were all lucky that Ji Sama and Caleb seem to be legitimate. I am glad it all worked out but it needs to be stressed that this cannot become the standard as it can be abused heavily.
LV contacted me on MSN asking why I am trolling this thread. It's not trolling, it is me wanting to make sure the standard protocols are not bypassed as that sets precedent and always leads up to a scam.
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Jadun
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Posted - 2009.05.15 01:33:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Ricdic
Ok main things to learn from this:
1) The broker option added an extra layer of risk with no real benefit
2) Sending funds after completion of audit without conditions imposed is an issue (would have been avoided anyway if number 1 wasn't in use)
3) The investment corporation probably should have been listed or at least clarified. From speaking with LaVista it seems it's just a private investment amongst friends. Had this been clarified (either in audit or prior) I wouldn't have requested all that extra information. I thought it was a regular public operation Meredian? was running on.
4) Audit Delays caused confusion however were unavoidable.
A few other things
Now this could have failed spectacularly. Current investors need to count their lucky stars. This could have easily backfired on a few of the points above and all your cash could have been lost. You were all lucky that Ji Sama and Caleb seem to be legitimate. I am glad it all worked out but it needs to be stressed that this cannot become the standard as it can be abused heavily.
LV contacted me on MSN asking why I am trolling this thread. It's not trolling, it is me wanting to make sure the standard protocols are not bypassed as that sets precedent and always leads up to a scam.
While reading this. A Pic of a Singing Sock Puppet jumped into my mind.
1. Donot see it.
2. What conditions would you apply????
3. Up to Ji me thinks
4. The sky is Blue. come on Ricdi** gime more. Explain 42.
Any IPO can fail. I count sheep before going to bed. does that count also? There is always risk in isk changing hands that 1 party will scram. I am pretty sure that Caleb + Ji seem to be playing eve. Also I am very sure that there will never be a standart in eve.
As why I wasted my time posting this. I am all for setting the precedent of joining a good plan. Used to watch A-TEAM on rainy afternoons. If I can find a good IPO it always leads up to a Investment
P.S. Using words like never + always will always find a way to bite you in the ***.
P.s. Any Investment could be a scam, if you cannot affort to lose isk do not invest.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.05.15 01:45:00 -
[299]
1. Caleb runs with the isk
2. The condition set by some investors that the isk were to be sent after audit is completed. The audited revealed some questionable things but it was sent regardless.
3. Shouldn't be up to Ji, its not his money
Blueprint Store |
Caleb Ayrania
Gallente
TarNec
Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
|
Posted - 2009.05.15 03:00:00 -
[300]
Ok getting a bit tired of the Caleb scammer plug ...
If anyone had done a search on me the mere age and amount of time and the content of posts should be enough to show that I am not the liability here.
I might have been away a while, and true the account might have been taken over by someone else, but could we get off that claim soon?
I offered Ji Sama what little rep(memory) I had to avoid the rather harsh climate in here, and initially I had no idea if Ji was actually a scammer, so I found the broker idea more than just an addition of risk, but rather a way to help both Ji Sama and in case he was not legit help the community of investors. Why this is being called a flawed system I dont understand. In any case just because I went on a break dont make me a new kid, and as far as I see it there was no sign saying new ideas couldnt be added to the MD and secondary market.
Oh and back WAY BACK WHEN .. I actually was part of some of the first successful secondary market businesses Bazaar (non scc loot shop, and related projects)
Not that it means much any more, but calling me newcomer and potential scammer is getting on my nerves, especially considering some of the things I have added and worked on the last 5-6 months.
- Money is Love -
Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways.
Feed your Brain:
Innovation Thread |
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