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Ricdic Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.07 08:24:00 - [211] Now read the Wylker IPO thread and take note at the people going nuts at those who vouched for Wylker and even some who had war declared on them as a result. It isn't really up for debate as to the true meaning of the word vouch, the only thing of importance is to clarify your position when using the word (as regardless it has been shown via dictionary.com that it is easily misinterpreted if not clarified). Why are you arguing this point? Not that a 'vouch' locks you into anything, just that it needs to come with clarification...
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.05.07 08:42:00 - [212] I hate to keep de-railing this thread, but: Quote: Now read the Wylker IPO thread and take note at the people going nuts at those who vouched for Wylker and even some who had war declared on them as a result. Having went trough the last 5 pages, I hardly see people going "nuts". I see you and a few other vocal people. But hardly anything worth mentioning. Quote: It isn't really up for debate as to the true meaning of the word vouch, the only thing of importance is to clarify your position when using the word (as regardless it has been shown via dictionary.com that it is easily misinterpreted if not clarified). And the fact is that I never said that I would garauantee anything. Now lets kill this discussion. It doesn't exactly belong in this thread.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.07 08:44:00 - [213] Originally by: LaVista Vista snip Now lets kill this discussion. It doesn't exactly belong in this thread. Thank you Lavista :D Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Alex555	Posted - 2009.05.07 09:01:00 - [214] there is one big rule for any investor out there besides auditing, checking, double checking, etc - invest into something/someone you can afford to trust. there's always a possibility of scam in both RL and eve world. Noone will ever gurantee a 100% security. hence in the end there's a matter of trust or some inner feelings about a project. if there's too much pressure on a nerve system than better move along and leave an investment opportunity alone.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.07 13:10:00 - [215] The lack of audit is a step too far out of my comfort zone so I have returned my 6000 shares and received my 3b investment back. I am reasonably convinced of Ji Sama's honesty as is evidenced by the fact that I handed over my isk. However, I am not yet convinced of his business acumen. The risk that concerns me now is not that Ji Sama or one of his colleagues might run away with the isk but that they might fail to generate the expected return. Without a good audit I cannot remedy this concern and therefore I have no choice but to withdraw. I am still holding just under 5b in collateral and my decision to withdraw as an investor has no effect on that.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.07 13:54:00 - [216] Ji, send me your API details and I'll take a look. I make no promises on how fast I can turn around that many accounts.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.05.07 21:25:00 - [217] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 07/05/2009 21:35:53 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Ji, send me your API details and I'll take a look. I make no promises on how fast I can turn around that many accounts. No ****? Well I thought you were already auditing him Take a look here at a convo I had with him: [ 2009.05.04 16:25:45 ] LRN > :D [ 2009.05.04 16:27:56 ] LRN > I could sell those in jita if you changed your mind [ 2009.05.04 16:27:59 ] LRN > just let me know [ 2009.05.04 17:05:38 ] Ji Sama > oi [ 2009.05.04 17:05:39 ] Ji Sama > champ [ 2009.05.04 17:05:45 ] Ji Sama > ye i got your mail [ 2009.05.04 17:06:20 ] Ji Sama > its just im in the middle of an audit process. and the 3.5B would ruin my margin, i really want them, just wanted to know if i could extend the purchase 24 hours... [ 2009.05.04 17:07:54 ] LRN > interesting [ 2009.05.04 17:08:09 ] LRN > you said you already payed for the freighter in your post [ 2009.05.04 17:08:19 ] Ji Sama > fenris and a charon ye [ 2009.05.04 17:08:26 ] LRN > oh [ 2009.05.04 17:08:37 ] LRN > just don't scam [ 2009.05.04 17:08:38 ] LRN > :D [ 2009.05.04 17:08:40 ] Ji Sama > nvm ill get the isk asap [ 2009.05.04 17:08:51 ] Ji Sama > ill just tell kazzac that he has to account [ 2009.05.04 17:08:53 ] Ji Sama > for it [ 2009.05.04 17:09:06 ] Ji Sama > no i bought a charon from ac115 Basically I've mailed the guy that the production was complete and contracted the 3 freighters to him as previously agreed at which point he IGNORED ME even hours later when I convoed him. None of his alts were online aside from Ji Sama, though he posted in the forums in that time interval. Eventually he did reply to the convo, yes it took him quite some time to cook a story but I know that previously he was ignoring me, I could feel it He probably expected to get the investors money in 24h and then add you all to his block list. Black Sun Empire
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.05.07 22:14:00 - [218] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 07/05/2009 22:16:09 Originally by: LaVista Vista Having went trough the last 5 pages, I hardly see people going "nuts". I see you and a few other vocal people. But hardly anything worth mentioning. What's that LVV? You want to underwrite the entire 25 billions yourself? That's splendid. We need more "dedicated" players like LVV. Black Sun Empire
TastyTreat Fraternity of Obnoxious Lemmings	Posted - 2009.05.08 05:07:00 - [219] Arsiiel now owns 250 TMP shares, which I sold to him. Confirming receipt of the agreed upon amount of isk.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.08 06:15:00 - [220] As mentioned earlier please use the ingame channel TMP IPO if you need to contact me. The buyback is open but since confirmation of the transfer can take a bit of time, please have patience in these cases. Confirmed Bad Bobby buyback, 6000 BSHARES TastyTreat sold 250 BSHARES to Arsiiel Please dont trade between each other till the IPO is concluded. Any transactions between characters is hard to track and makes it harder to work the ledger. Please use the sellers buyback, and buyers order their shares in this thread. Note: Ji Sama is out of office till sunday. This means I cant reach him atm. I will be available to answer questions to the extend of my knowledge. Current BSHARES : 9600 Current funds: 19,525 B isk. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread

TastyTreat Fraternity of Obnoxious Lemmings	Posted - 2009.05.08 06:59:00 - [221] Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 28/04/2009 09:27:06 We dont currently plan on buying back at 100%... One dividend payment should be enough to cover any losses associated with selling back the shares to TMP Industries. You are ofcourse welcome to sell the share to other investors for any price you like... Based off of the above quote I assumed that trading/selling shares was fair game. Although in retrospect I may have accidentally interpreted it out of context. I will refrain from any further trading before the conclusion of this IPO.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.08 07:26:00 - [222] @TastyTreat. Yes that was post IPO conclusion. As it stands now this is likely to change a bit. There will be buyback at 100% till the IPO is concluded. Basically a full cancellation option. Once the external audit is finished and the remaining shares distributed the Shares are live and can be traded accordingly. More detail on this will be posted at finalizing. and then there will be cake. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.08 12:43:00 - [223] Originally by: YouGotRipped No ****? Well I thought you were already auditing him Nope, having not logged into my main (read Kazzac) in some days I found a evemail in my box asking for one, but this was before the actual start of anything. At this point I still have nothing as well.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.05.08 17:35:00 - [224] If shares have been issued, why can't you trade them? You only need a ledger if no shares are being issued. Not sure how many are doing this anymore after Xabier. There are a few old timers doing it via ledger, but I don't really like it for newer bonds from people who don't have the rep.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.05.08 17:43:00 - [225] Finally had a thorough read of the post after voicing my concerns on page 1. I really can't believe some of the investors here. 1. OP agrees to an audit, BUT you send cash before audit is done 2. The IPO is launched on the rep of the OP, but the person with the cash is not the OP. 3. Why is Celeb not launching the IPO or having audits done. If you agree to invest after audit, let the OP just post the reservations. When the audit is complete and the auditor gives his/her report then send the money (if your happy with audit). Any other method you deserve to lose your cash. I don't know if Ji Sama will scam, but he certainly is showing all the classic signs of launching an IPO scam.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.08 19:56:00 - [226] @Cosmoray. SCS and in this case I am acting as a third party broker. TMP needs confirmed securities confirmed, and current assets and history confirmed. I think basically all the needed information is all in the above. Reason I am receiving the isk is exactly because audit is not done yet. This way the reservations and distribution of shares can be handled, and the isk is frozen until TMP and Ji Sama has the auditors confirmation. The stocks should not be traded until the IPO is concluded, because until then TMP stocks dont have the value. I am not launching the IPO, because I am not the client I am the broker. I dont see how my assets need an audit for acting as a broker. My net value and my trust has nothing to do with each other, it no concern of the investors if I have 100M or 100B isk to my name. And I fail to see how this is even close to a scam IPO, since there is already almost 100% coverage in security prior to any audit. The only need for the audit as things stand is to validate TMP trade history and his current passive assets ready for profit making. Even though this IPO has suffered a rather bad timing, and hit a few bumps, all in all I would say its already more then safe, the only thing is whether TMP business plan holds up and can generate the promised 7% monthly yield. This however isnt improved by keeping the assets frozen. I hope Ji Sama will have gotten hold of a willing auditor when he returns this sunday. I hope that clears things up a bit.. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.05.08 21:35:00 - [227] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania I am not launching the IPO, because I am not the client I am the broker. I dont see how my assets need an audit for acting as a broker. My net value and my trust has nothing to do with each other, it no concern of the investors if I have 100M or 100B isk to my name. Surely you jest? Notwithstanding LVV's endorsement... If you're the broker for a 25 billion isk IPO/Bond and you have an NAV of 100 mil, with no history at all then I think it'd absolutely be the concern of the investors as to who was handling their money. Bottom line, money goes to you, you give it to Ji Sama. Assuming Ji Sama isn't pulling a fast one, then by adding that extra step that's someone else who can scam. So yes, it is a valid concern for investors.
Gabriel Virtus hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.09 04:48:00 - [228] I am requesting a buyback for my 500 TMP shares. Sent an email to Caleb in-game. Too many mistakes for my blood -GV
PublicRelations Kwint Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2009.05.09 05:34:00 - [229] Originally by: cosmoray If shares have been issued, why can't you trade them? You only need a ledger if no shares are being issued. Not sure how many are doing this anymore after Xabier. There are a few old timers doing it via ledger, but I don't really like it for newer bonds from people who don't have the rep. Ledgers are fine for a small, single-payout bond. Something like Kwint Industries last's 60-day bond fits that model but if you're raising real capital and especially if you intend to make regular payments or keep it open for a long length then you should issue actual shares and allow them to be traded. It's a big courtesy to your investors and it's ultimately easier on the issuer. Now, if one of your investors needs his ISK back quickly he can just sell the shares rather than desperately trying to convince you to buy them back. Plus, the trading of this sort of debt is an integral part of the secondary market and its health is good for us all, at least in the long run. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.09 08:21:00 - [230] Originally by: Viktor Raybach Originally by: Caleb Ayrania I am not launching the IPO, because I am not the client I am the broker. I dont see how my assets need an audit for acting as a broker. My net value and my trust has nothing to do with each other, it no concern of the investors if I have 100M or 100B isk to my name. Surely you jest? Notwithstanding LVV's endorsement... If you're the broker for a 25 billion isk IPO/Bond and you have an NAV of 100 mil, with no history at all then I think it'd absolutely be the concern of the investors as to who was handling their money. Bottom line, money goes to you, you give it to Ji Sama. Assuming Ji Sama isn't pulling a fast one, then by adding that extra step that's someone else who can scam. So yes, it is a valid concern for investors. This. Caleb, statements like you made here and similar statements that Ji Sama has made is exactly why I have voiced concern. From your point of view, you may be trustworthy and if you know JS and LVV in real life then I understand why there would be a circle of trust between you in the same way as I trust many of the eve players that are also real life friends of mine. But that trust does not extend outside that friendship and never really could, barring a Ricdic approved vouch from LVV which we know LVV could not even begin to afford. Putting youself in our shoes, you've got to understand that we do not know you from adam. You are just a guy that showed up into MD recently and has been doing some stuff on the periphery that some (but not all) of us have witnessed. Some of us have viewed your activities as positive and some of us have viewed them as negative or just a mess. But still none of that goes to how much we can trust you not to steal our isk. The greater problem, from my perspective, is that although I can understand the relationship you have with those that do trust you and I am personally optimistic that you and Ji Sama are honest people, I still see comments like this and cringe. It goes to my verdict of you and Ji's competence and business acumen that you've made a bit of a muddle of this launch, you make bizzarre choices including this brokerage nonsense and then make totally facepalm statements like the one I've quoted. It's ok to make mistakes and say daft things when you are new and untested, it's also ok to make mistakes and say daft things when you've built up a reputation, it's all forgivable. But at key times like this, when you're asking for isk or handling isk belonging to other people, you've got to work on a flawless performance because people get really touchy about this kind of thing. Saying daft things that suggest you have little regard for the perfectly reasonable reservations that investors have, when you are holding their money, is PR suicide. So far, in this launch, I'd say Ji has done a fair job. But there have been a whole raft of mistakes that should never have come about. He's demonstrated both prior to and during this launch that he's a little too ready to trust people and his level of organisation may not be that great. If his intent is to manage a corp and the people within it, he's going to need to perform a whole lot better than the glimpse we have seen so far. You on the other hand have demonstrated fair organisation but little insight or sympathy for the views of those who's money you are handling. If your intent is to go forward with brokerage as a venture, you need to work on that one. Anyway, once the audit is done, the mess is cleaned up and dividends start flowing this will all be water under the bridge. I expect both of you to go on to greater things. Just try not to sabotage your potentially good name in the intervening period eh?

Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.09 09:14:00 - [231] @Bad Bobby Thanks for the clean tone, and constructive criticism. I have admit that basically all your statements are correct. I do however not entirely agree with all the conclusions. If the questions and attacks to this IPO was mainly from investors I would, but the case is that the voiced opposition is mainly from non investors. Since their money arent at risk I dont see why they need to voice their concerns in a way that makes it seem like every new IPO is an attempted scam. I agree there is a need for testing the legitimacy of a new business proposal in the secondary markets, but there is a thing called benefit of the doubt. Also I personally think this IPO has gone above and beyond in trying to make the investors feel safe. The fact that I am brokering the deal and holding the funds is just one of these attempts to share the risk, and make sure the earlier doubts in Ji Sama could be alliviated. Whether or not I am trusted enough for that should be the investors and Ji Samas business and not outsiders yelling "Scammer" at everyone entering the MD. And no I am not that new to the MD, although I rejoined the game recently. Maybe my history dont grant me a card blanche on trust, but at least a spotless and scamless track record since 14 days after game launch should count for something. The only dirt you could find on me in here and in EVE in general is my tendencies to voice opinions. All that be as it may, I am glad you voiced the concerns in a way that actually made sense, and I hope those reading it make up their own mind in these matters and judge the entire thread before jumping to any conclusions. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.09 09:58:00 - [232] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Thanks for the clean tone, and constructive criticism. Thanks for taking my comments in the spirit in which they were meant. Forum-Fu can make this a terrible medium for conveying the feeling behind a statement and it gets ten times harder when dealing with a multi-language userbase. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania If the questions and attacks to this IPO was mainly from investors I would, but the case is that the voiced opposition is mainly from non investors. Since their money arent at risk I dont see why they need to voice their concerns... Well, in fairness I think if the answers to the attacks had been better pitched, you might have found that a lot of those people would have become investors or would have endorsed your product. If you are getting attacked, you might want to consider that the war is started by two parties even if one is only playing the part of the victim. You should also be wary or writing off posters as irrelevant noise in any of these threads because today's troll could easily be tommorrows client or investor. The ability to handle the conflict ridden environment that is MD and come out looking good is one of the greater accolades you can achieve here. Even some of the MD regulars with the highest trusted reputations can be terrible at dealing with that side of things. You're not alone in getting a kicking on the forums every now and then, obviously. Treat it as an opertunity to demonstrate your PR and people-handling ability. Also, try not to be so shallow in your preception of peoples agendas. Many of the people most likely to critique or attack a proposal are not that likely to invest in any but the most ironclad or lucrative schemes, the two sides of that are strongly linked. But when acting as a militia protecting the secondary market from scams AND bad plans AND bad risks we are actually working on raising the standards and protecting the pool of isk available for investment. Scams getting through are not good for the health of that potential investment pool. Failed plans and bad risks also undermine that pool. We may not go about it in the best or most friendly way but we are trying to help, even if we are ultimately helping ourselves. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania ...in a way that makes it seem like every new IPO is an attempted scam. That's a very narrow perspective I feel. Yes there are some people who are very eager to call the scam and there are some ventures which are just bait for those people. But screening EVERY venture for the likelyhood of scam is what we have to do, just because a lot of ventures fail at that stage and never go on to further scrutiny does not mean that we are being unreasonable... if anything it means we are being effective. We may cull a lot of the weak along with the actual scams but if that is the cost of the process then that is a price I am willing to see paid. You may disagree, but I'm here to make money and ensure there are good oppertunities in the future for making even more. I'm pretty good at it too. I've never been scammed, I tend to be pretty fair in my criticism unless provoked, but I am paranoid. I can accept the bad with the good in me... and many people trust me with large amounts of their isk because they know that robbing me would be a difficult task. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania there is a thing called benefit of the doubt. Yes, and people comming to MD asking for money do not get that benefit. The 'doubt' will always go against them. That's the way it has to be, it's called caution and those of us that do not practice it soon get parted from their isk. In the real world things are a little different, but EVE will never be that way.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.09 10:17:00 - [233] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Also I personally think this IPO has gone above and beyond in trying to make the investors feel safe. Trying yes, but succeeding? The strange thing is that even though you have gone to a lot of effort it hasn't actually been all that effective. A lot of that is down to the way you have gone about it and the way you have handled (or not) the mood of this thread. But your efforts are appreciated and I personally hope you learn from this experience and bring this level of effort to other ventures... but with just a little more skill. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania The fact that I am brokering the deal and holding the funds is just one of these attempts to share the risk, and make sure the earlier doubts in Ji Sama could be alliviated. Sadly, all it did was double the number of people that we had to worry about. Sharing the risk did not reduce it or divide it... it multiplied it. You would have had to have a much stronger and current reputation to have achieved what you set out to do with that. But if you handle this and later ventures well you can be sure you will gain that. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Whether or not I am trusted enough for that should be the investors and Ji Samas business and not outsiders yelling "Scammer" at everyone entering the MD. I've covered that ground already, but I'll re-state that just because some of us are not putting money on the table (or in my case did briefly and reconsidered) it does not mean we do not have a stake in this venture succeeding or failing... or the manner in which it succeeds or fails. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania And no I am not that new to the MD, although I rejoined the game recently. Maybe my history dont grant me a card blanche on trust, but at least a spotless and scamless track record since 14 days after game launch should count for something. The only dirt you could find on me in here and in EVE in general is my tendencies to voice opinions. Sadly, that counts for very little. If it were not for your connection to other people that have been actively involved while you've been away, you'd have the sum total of zip. It may seem harsh, but you will need to understand and accept some of these realities. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania All that be as it may, I am glad you voiced the concerns in a way that actually made sense, No problem. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania and I hope those reading it make up their own mind in these matters and judge the entire thread before jumping to any conclusions. Lemmings and sheep are everywhere, but most people will make their own minds up. Those that consider or choose to invest will generally put a lot more thought into it than the casual commentators, so if there was a real chance of you getting money from someone then discussion like this is rarely going to harm your chances... provided you and Ji handle it well!
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.05.09 12:24:00 - [234] The problem with having a broker, again is the trust issue. When you invest in an IPO, you are investing in the IPO manager. If you hand over ISK to a broker, you now have to trust them at least an equal amount to the IPO manager. Why would I need an audit of a broker? Do I trust the broker? You haven't done anything to put you in the trustworthy category. When I hear broker, I think of people with a large reputation that they can be 100% trusted with any amount of funds. Names that spring to mind are Kazuo, EBANK, Kwint, Bad Bobby, Ray, Shar, AC155, LVV, Cosmo, PP, plus a couple of others. Bottom line Caleb, you have done nothing to prove level of trust except your wordy statements. For us as a community to accept your word at facevalue is foolhardy at best. Trust comes with proof, you haven't done it yet. So far the launch has been "hey guys I need 25B in an IPO, and I promise to get an audit done meanwhile send your money to my mate who has done nothing in the game. When the audit is done I'll get the cash" Sound like Evn7289 & Xabier???
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.05.09 12:30:00 - [235] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 09/05/2009 12:35:46 Originally by: cosmoray "hey guys I need 25B in an IPO, and I promise to get an audit done meanwhile send your money to my mate who has done nothing in the game. When the audit is done I'll get the cash" Sound like Evn7289 & Xabier??? Sounds more like you haven't actually followed the thread at all. But that might just be me Not only did your argument base around ad hominem, but you also ignore the fact that Ji Sama was extremely upfront about the fact that he would be fine with an audit. The second somebody mentioned, he took contact to a large amount of auditors. Sadly, as you would have noticed, it didn't go very well, because the current supply of auditors is... limited.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.09 13:13:00 - [236] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania I fail to see how this is even close to a scam IPO, since there is already almost 100% coverage in security prior to any audit. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Add to this the POS estimated at 5B (Bobby or the Audit can confirm this estimate) Keyser Kahn Underwriting with 3B, and myself personally for 4B. I make that 12b or about 50% security, I know we talked about other securities but were any others actually enacted? Not a criticism or a call for more, just trying to clarify the details. In the case of Keyser and yourself being 7b of security, I'm sure you can forgive me for not actually feeling that secured by that since you're all very involved with the risk itself in one way or another. You can turn this same criticism on me, but I have the rep to brush that off along with any claims of conflict. The point I am leading to here is from my perspective it would 'feel' safer if you two hadn't come forward to underwrite it, because it smelt badly of sales hook. I'm a PvPer, I know bait, that looked like it. Obviously I'm not in any way innocent of using sales tactics and baited hooks, even in this thread. But it takes a slightly more sensitive nose to detect the odour that my work leaves behind. If you are going to do this kind of thing, be good at it, or if you don't intend to do that kind of thing, beware looking like you are by accident. When it comes to deception, the best people at it are those that appear to be the opposite of what they really are and the only evidence of them passing through is a slight soreness and uneasy feeling of being violated in your sleep. You won't find that wording in Sun Tzu, but he would understand what I am trying to say. Originally by: LaVista Vista you also ignore the fact that Ji Sama was extremely upfront about the fact that he would be fine with an audit. The second somebody mentioned, he took contact to a large amount of auditors. This is true and one of the reasons why I haven't torn this venture to shreds. I get the impression that there is an honest and potentially successfull venture in this thread, ill-starred though it may be. Time will tell on that one. Originally by: LaVista Vista Sadly, as you would have noticed, it didn't go very well, because the current supply of auditors is... limited. MD audits are currently broken and I'm concerned about how long it will be until normal service can be resumed. It's an open door right now to conveniently slipping something through without an audit while appearing to be seeking one. I'm not saying that's what has happened here, allthough on the surface it fits the mold, but if it isn't happening here it's happening somewhere else.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.09 19:28:00 - [237] I'm still available, and still awaiting API keys. IN fact I have free time until monday afternoon at which point I'll be nose deep in a new VOIP system so don't expect to even hear from me for awhile.
PublicRelations Kwint Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2009.05.09 19:53:00 - [238] Originally by: LaVista Vista Not only did your argument base around ad hominem, but you also ignore the fact that Ji Sama was extremely upfront about the fact that he would be fine with an audit. The second somebody mentioned, he took contact to a large amount of auditors. Sadly, as you would have noticed, it didn't go very well, because the current supply of auditors is... limited. Ji Sama actually asked me a few days ago if I would be willing to audit this so I can confirm that he is indeed serious about having it audited. Unfortunately, I'm absurdly busy at the moment and haven't even really had time to manage my own finances, let alone seriously evaluate someone else's. I actually owe the man a bit of an apology as I haven't even responded to his request but before I type that out I should get back to counting neutrons....I really wish that were an analogy. Right, well, I do not plan to invest in this venture and certainly see short comings in its structure but from my position he is at least serious about being audited and that is a decidedly good sign. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Companion Qube	Posted - 2009.05.09 20:10:00 - [239] Caleb, Since Ji is out of town until Sunday can you forward his API keys to Kazzac? Getting the ball rolling on the audit front should make people feel a bit better.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.09 20:22:00 - [240] Confirming I will get a hold of Kazzac and arrange the audit. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread



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