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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.05 07:24:00 -
[181]
Originally by: TastyTreat Confirming that I received 1000 shares. Also, if anyone is looking for some additional TMP shares please contact me in game.
currently the shares arent worth anything, so i recomend against trading them. the shares wont have a value untill after an audit is completet...
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The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.05 09:07:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Ricdic Tell me I am missing something here and you guys didn't just take a giant risk after all that crap in pages 1-6
I took 5b in collateral off Ji Sama before handing over my 3b to Caleb, so while I thought it was both odd, stupid and pointless to be involving an untrusted third party in the transaction I ignored it on the principle that I didn't give two hoots if either of them take my isk.
I'm getting increasingly concerned about the effect the SCC lounge is having. Far too many people are engaging in trust based transactions on the basis of a bit of smalltalk with someone they met on the internet. All I can say is don't come crying to me when your new pal turns out to be Riethe engaging in another social engineering project.
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.05 09:46:00 -
[183]
i dont think thats fair tbh.. SCS was announced on the first page as the broker. besides this isnt solely a trust based investment! atm i have 22B in frozen IPO funds. and i have provided more than 14B in securities!
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The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
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Keyser Kahn
Stellar-Parallax Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.05 09:47:00 -
[184]
I note the comments and concerns raised above and can only say that my decisions in this matter are based upon previous business dealings with both Ji and Caleb as well as numerous discussions with Caleb primarily on TS & IM rather than just simply taking part in an ingame channel.
This isn't to say it is impossible for this to be a comprehensive socialy engineered heist because clearly there are no guarantees in Eve. My personal view, however, is that all is above board in this matter.
As I understand it the point of the SCC-Lounge is to help network and build some trust/experience amongst other things but is not supposed to be carte blanche trust all who frequent it .
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2009.05.05 09:52:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Ricdic Tell me I am missing something here and you guys didn't just take a giant risk after all that crap in pages 1-6
I took 5b in collateral off Ji Sama before handing over my 3b to Caleb, so while I thought it was both odd, stupid and pointless to be involving an untrusted third party in the transaction I ignored it on the principle that I didn't give two hoots if either of them take my isk.
Of course, you do realize that in the event of a scam you'll have to split the collateral between the investors.
Black Sun Empire |
Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.05 09:52:00 -
[186]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Ricdic Tell me I am missing something here and you guys didn't just take a giant risk after all that crap in pages 1-6
I took 5b in collateral off Ji Sama before handing over my 3b to Caleb, so while I thought it was both odd, stupid and pointless to be involving an untrusted third party in the transaction I ignored it on the principle that I didn't give two hoots if either of them take my isk.
Of course, you do realize that in the event of a scam you'll have to split the collateral between the investors.
idd, im sure he is aware of that :D
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The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
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Chris15
RennTech Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.05 10:07:00 -
[187]
Chris15 Confirming Receipt of 100 Shares for Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Ricdic
Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.05 10:31:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Ji Sama i dont think thats fair tbh.. SCS was announced on the first page as the broker. besides this isnt solely a trust based investment!
Care to show me where it was announced on first page as a broker? I searched SCS and SCC and only found reference that they would come in and clean up in the event of your disappearance.
This could have (and still could) blow up if Caleb decides to run with the cash. Will you remain liable for the debt if this happen Ji Sama? Have you done any background check on Caleb? Has an auditor checked out Caleb prior to receipt of funds? Has it been made clear from the start that Caleb would be in holding of 20+ billion isk?
I really don't want to screw with Caleb because I personally think he is ok, but he has been somewhat untested and you are risking the public's funds on someone unrelated and unlisted in the IPO (or at least not clearly clarified).
If you can't counter this claim don't try, just accept a mistake was made, update your OP, make sure existing people are aware of this (which really they should be as they sent the cash to Caleb already) and move forward. I think both Ji Sama and Caleb have shown potential to do great things in the future so consider the constructive criticism as building you up to make sure you putty up all those cracks. |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2009.05.05 11:00:00 -
[189]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 05/05/2009 11:00:34
Originally by: Ricdic
I really don't want to screw with Caleb because I personally think he is ok [...]
Caleb seems to be the idealistic type with a far too bigger mouth to handle scamming on top of it. Ji on the other hand is walking talking liability.
Now that my business with Ji Sama has been completed I might provide an unbiased evaluation of this offering. If I'm not too lazy that is.
Black Sun Empire |
Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2009.05.05 13:09:00 -
[190]
Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 05/05/2009 11:30:17
Originally by: Ricdic
I really don't want to screw with Caleb because I personally think he is ok [...]
Caleb seems to be the idealistic type with a far too bigger mouth to handle scamming on top of it. Ji on the other hand is a walking talking liability.
Now that my business with Ji Sama has been completed I might provide an unbiased evaluation of this offering. If I'm not too lazy that is.
Uhh Thank you... (I think)
I am well aware there is a risk that the "intimacy" the lounge brings can make some jump the gun on high risk investments. To that I have to say I hope the lounge can also be a source to make people understand these risks.
- Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways.
Feed your Brain:
Innovation Thread |
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.05 13:10:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Ricdic
This could have (and still could) blow up if Caleb decides to run with the cash. Will you remain liable for the debt if this happen Ji Sama? Have you done any background check on Caleb? Has an auditor checked out Caleb prior to receipt of funds? Has it been made clear from the start that Caleb would be in holding of 20+ billion isk?
I wasn't going to say anything since I figured this little faux pas by the OP was pretty clear as day and Bobby was still in board despite being liable to split that POS asset. |
Malakai Cross
Cross and Cross Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.05.05 15:25:00 -
[192]
50 Million transferred to Caleb via Cross and Cross Enterprises.
Fortune favours the cunning, not the bold. |
Maxwell Terallis
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Posted - 2009.05.06 09:36:00 -
[193]
Payment sent to Caleb Ayrania for 1000 shares @ 500M isk.
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Lecherito
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Posted - 2009.05.06 09:55:00 -
[194]
Edited by: Lecherito on 06/05/2009 10:01:10 I'm posting to confirm that I have invested 600 million into TMP Industries, buying a total of 1200 shares.
As for the criticism directed toward the SCC in regards to their fostering of an overly trust based investment mentality, I ask you, exactly which investments in EvE do not revolve 100% around trust? How many investment opportunities actually provide 100% collateral? The last person to provide security for the entire investment was laughed out of MD, with everyone instructing him that such a scheme would only serve to augment the reputation of Dbank, and not his own. No, unfortunately the secondary markets in EvE are 100% based on trust. If the SCC serves to provide a forum through which trustworthy individuals can establish both themselves and their reputation, what, I ask you, is the problem with that? In the end every individual is personally responsible for his individual funds. Information exists to provide a reasonable analysis as to whether an individual is trustworthy or not. SCC enables this in a way that the overtly hostile MD forum does not.
-L
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Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
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Posted - 2009.05.06 15:21:00 -
[195]
Unfortunately we've seen so many scams come through MD, that we're a bit desensitized to it, and further most are unwilling to give a new guy a shot.
Imagine, if you will, that you really did want to give the 1 millionth visitor to your website a free xbox. You set up a flashy banner letting him know he won - but are surprised to find out he didn't give you his phone number or shipping address to mail the prize.
Not your fault, just a very jaded generation of internet junkies.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.05.06 20:23:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Ricdic
This could have (and still could) blow up if Caleb decides to run with the cash. Will you remain liable for the debt if this happen Ji Sama? Have you done any background check on Caleb? Has an auditor checked out Caleb prior to receipt of funds? Has it been made clear from the start that Caleb would be in holding of 20+ billion isk?
I can vouch for BOTH Caleb and Ji Sama.
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Ricdic
Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.07 03:27:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Lecherito As for the criticism directed toward the SCC in regards to their fostering of an overly trust based investment mentality, I ask you, exactly which investments in EvE do not revolve 100% around trust? -L
I think you missed the point I was making. At no point through the process were people informed that not one but two people would have access to the funds (3 if you count his director friend). The IPO seeker and a trustee who had yet been trusted with anything.
Point is, people investing should have known from the start that the trustee was being used so that they could make a suitable decision on whether or not to invest based on their analysis of the parties involved. It really doesn't matter who the trustee was, what matters is how it wasn't advised to shareholders in the IPO or following documentation. |
Ricdic
Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.07 03:28:00 -
[198]
Originally by: LaVista Vista I can vouch for BOTH Caleb and Ji Sama.
So are you stating officially right here that if either of these characters default or scam through this offering you will repay the entire debt or be responsible for the whole debt? |
Bonhomme Carnaval
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Posted - 2009.05.07 03:35:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Ricdic
Originally by: LaVista Vista I can vouch for BOTH Caleb and Ji Sama.
So are you stating officially right here that if either of these characters default or scam through this offering you will repay the entire debt or be responsible for the whole debt?
No he's not. He's saying that from his own experience they seem to be trustworthy. Also, investors sent their ISK to Caleb. Their ISK was not transfered to Caleb by the IPO manager without the investors' permissions.
By the way, you should try to be more professional, read : not putting words in other people's mouths like children do when argueing. |
Janson Webb
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.07 04:11:00 -
[200]
Isn't the point Ricdic has raised about Caleb a valid one? Ji was required to extensively justify his trustworthiness and then the ISK went to Caleb...huh? Maybe he has a nice long history of handling these sums of ISK, but it isn't documented in this thread. I know investors are supposed to do their own research, but it's a stark contrast to the information provided by Ji about himself.
I thought it odd at the time, but since I've only invested a tiny amount in this I just went with it. Not a good mentality but I am new to MD and wanted to see if anyone raised concerns over it before voicing my own. My gut tells me they are both trustworthy but that's not really the point.
That said, best of luck with your venture Ji, looking forward to my dividends.
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Companion Qube
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Posted - 2009.05.07 04:27:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Janson Webb Isn't the point Ricdic has raised about Caleb a valid one? Ji was required to extensively justify his trustworthiness and then the ISK went to Caleb...huh? Maybe he has a nice long history of handling these sums of ISK, but it isn't documented in this thread. I know investors are supposed to do their own research, but it's a stark contrast to the information provided by Ji about himself.
I thought it odd at the time, but since I've only invested a tiny amount in this I just went with it. Not a good mentality but I am new to MD and wanted to see if anyone raised concerns over it before voicing my own. My gut tells me they are both trustworthy but that's not really the point.
That said, best of luck with your venture Ji, looking forward to my dividends.
The point is valid, and everyone who sent ISK to a non-vetted broker is taking a significant personal risk.
Personally, Caleb seems like an alright guy who wants to run some sort of financial service for personal satisfaction. I could be wrong, internetspaceships players are famous for social engineering, and this could be an elaborate scam but let's withhold judgment of Caleb until we have more information.
I think the real lol worthy moment here is that the majority of a very large IPO in money has already changed hands before either the broker was vetted or the fund recipient completed an audit. I'm keeping my iskies until someone has had a look at the financials of Ji's business. This has no bearing on my perception of the involved parties, it's simply risk mitigation.
That said, much <3 and good luck Ji and Caleb.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.05.07 05:19:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Ricdic
Originally by: LaVista Vista I can vouch for BOTH Caleb and Ji Sama.
So are you stating officially right here that if either of these characters default or scam through this offering you will repay the entire debt or be responsible for the whole debt?
Last time I checked, the word "vouch" meant nothing of that sort.
Quote: assert or confirm as a result of one's own experience that something is true or accurately so described : ò confirm that someone is who they say they are or that they are of good character : he was refused entrance until someone could vouch for him.
Especially seeing as I'm personally barely worth 20bill, do you think that's likely or what's up with that?
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Ricdic
Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.07 05:43:00 -
[203]
Edited by: Ricdic on 07/05/2009 05:43:16
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Ricdic
Originally by: LaVista Vista I can vouch for BOTH Caleb and Ji Sama.
So are you stating officially right here that if either of these characters default or scam through this offering you will repay the entire debt or be responsible for the whole debt?
Last time I checked, the word "vouch" meant nothing of that sort.
Quote: to attest; guarantee; certify (usually fol. by for): to vouch for someone in a business transaction.
Thats from dictionary.com
You can see there can be many insinuations with the word vouch, hell there was a long MD thread on it where it was somewhat agreed that Vouch meant to guarantor.
Heres the thread I started, you can see the a large group of the participants believe that a vouch means a guarantee of sorts. So with you saying "vouch" above without clarification it can be incredibly misleading.
-------------------- Your response either way clarified that you had nothing more than a character reference on those two and won't be liable for any issues that arise as a result of scam/failure etc. --------------------
That is necessary to avoid misleading investors into a false sense of security LV. |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.05.07 06:08:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Ricdic
Your response either way clarified that you had nothing more than a character reference on those two and won't be liable for any issues that arise as a result of scam/failure etc.
First of all, let me rephrase:
I can vouch for the integrity of Ji Sama and Caleb. I know for a fact that they are good guys and I would trust them with hell of a lot more than 20bill.
As for the speculation you put forward about how I "had nothing more than a character reference", Ricdic, I think that you should really consider not posting about things which you know nothing about.
Let me try and explain to you the process I consider when I either vouch for somebody or don't.
I split people into 2 categories:
1) People whom I know in real life and know are sound and honest people 2) Hexxx
Ji Sama and Caleb falls into the first category.
Please notice that I have never actually vouched for anybody else before, not even your ventures.
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Ricdic
Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.07 06:19:00 -
[205]
So you didn't read that thread? If you aren't guaranteeing their operation then it's a character reference? |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.05.07 06:21:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Ricdic So you didn't read that thread? If you aren't guaranteeing their operation then it's a character reference?
Hey, Ricdic. Lets play a game
It's called: StopUsingStrawmanArguments(SUSA for short)
Let me quote myself and then be done with this stupid argument.
Quote: I can vouch for the integrity of Ji Sama and Caleb. I know for a fact that they are good guys and I would trust them with hell of a lot more than 20bill.
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Athre
Minmatar The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2009.05.07 06:21:00 -
[207]
Ric, are you saying every single person you have characterally vouched for you will pay back any of them that have scammed? wow that EIB tab is pretty big :D
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Ricdic
Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.07 06:41:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Athre Ric, are you saying every single person you have characterally vouched for you will pay back any of them that have scammed? wow that EIB tab is pretty big :D
Actually yes thats exactly what I am saying. Oh, and I never vouched for EIB.
My point wasn't that LV wanted to state his support but that his statement was open to interpretation as per the other 3 page thread I linked that he failed to read.
Again, he has quoted just above poorly worded information that doesn't actually determine if he is liable or not.
See the Wylker IPO for understanding on how a vouch can be seriously misinterpreted (people vouched for him and were then *****ing and moaning when others tried forcing them to repay the debt).
This is common sense people. If a statement can be misinterpreted, just clarify it. Don't be sooks and whingers, just make sure it's clear so it doesn't come back to bite you in the ass in the future. |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:02:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Ricdic his statement was open to interpretation as per the other 3 page thread I linked that he failed to read.
I didn't fail to read it at all. I just fundamentally disagree with it.
And if you read those 3 pages of thread I supposed "failed to read"(Again, you are assuming too much), then you would realize that Shardale was the only person who directly agreed with you.
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:22:00 -
[210]
TMP Industries General Announcement:
First I would like to thank the investors for showing patience and understanding. Then I would like to apologize to the investors for my delay in bringing this announcement forward. I assure you that I delayed this for a good reason, I and have hold back this announcement for as long as it was responsible and possible.
TMP industries will launch phase 4 this Friday, with a small adjustment. Because of the major lack of auditors all of the sudden, it has been impossible to get another auditor for this IPO. (Before launching phase 4)
I have mailed and tried to have conversations with them all. Only 1 bothered actually rejecting my offer, the rest havenÆt just been able to manage a reply, in game at least. Because of the lack of audit, instead of offering 95 % buyback from this Friday we offer all investors a way out with no loss involved, i.e. 100 % Buyback. (100 % buyback stops on Sunday the 10th May 2009) After this the normal 95 % buyback is in effect.
So if you are an investor, and you think; ôI want out of this,ö just send your shares back to Caleb, and he will refund the entire amount. Do get a hold of him before you do this please, for easy verification!
Any shares that arenÆt sold, TMP Industries will buy up. And relist on the exchange.
A performance audit will be created in the nearest future, as soon as some viable solution to this has been found.
Expect the next economical report in less than 21 days. This report should be backed up the before mentioned audit. This is our new deadline for an audit.
To the rest of the investors that havenÆt fled this apparently sinking ship: Thank you all for you vote of faith and confidence, I could not have gone through this without you.
First dividend is scheduled for the 7th of June.
Lastly I want to apologize to the investors that did not know that SCS would broker this deal. Since there are at least 2 investors that didnÆt know that, the message of this havenÆt been clear enough.
Securities are in place, IPO funds are frozen until Friday, where they will be released to TMP Industries. SCS will hold a small portion of that, in case any investor wants to use the 100 % buyback option.
As a general info; I will be away on vacation till Sunday.
Quote:
The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
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