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Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 08:05:00 - [1] Tash-Murkon Prime Industries IPO Plan º1 Summary º2 Background º3 Governance º4 Business Plan .a Marketing Plan .b Innovation Plan .c Research & Development Plan .d Investment Plan º5 Net Asset Value º6 Risks º7 Mains & Alts º8 Break Even Analysis º9 Initial Public Offering º10 Frequently Asked Questions Summary TMP Industries are primarily an investment and trading corporation. On the side the corporation is involved in mining, logistics, research and development. We also have the capability to start production of rigs, modules, battleships and cruiser-class ships of tier 1 and 2. Our current monthly revenue is around 30 Billion and our estimated NAV is around 50 Billion. The corporation currently employs around 10 people of a total of 20+ accounts. Background I started up TMP Industries 6 months ago with some real life friends of mine, we wanted an industrial corporation where we could sit back and donÆt think about trust issues and generally just make a nice profit so we can hoard assets. You see that is what we like to do in TMP Industries; we like to look at market screens and graphs. Buy low, sell high, stockpile when market is saturated. Manipulate and control the flow of goods and wares. (First thing I taught them was to make a Jita and Rens alt. (we operated out of Dodixie at the time, and Rens being our former primary now secondary hub.)) About 2 months ago, we decided that it was time to open up the corporation to outsiders. Since then the corporation has been majorly exposed and interest was so high, that in order to keep the integrity and soul of the corporation we had to close recruitment within a week. Since then we have operated TMP Industries on a new level. We currently employ 3 primary and 2 secondary key-account managers that operate the market on behalf of the corporation, getting all the benefits that a large corporation stockpile and wallet brings. We also have 5+ Miners and 4+ Freighter Haulers (in the making eta 7, 14, 14, 30 days) and the OrcaÆs and the last freighters have been paid and are currently being build. We set up a Large Death Star POS that is currently mostly offline in regards to defence/offence instead its running ME and PE research on some t1 rigs BPOÆs We also have our hands on a lot of behind the curtain deals and investments. And currently have more than 10 Billion invested in the secondary market in the form of bonds. The corporation has now matured to a level which allows for the launch of an IPO to increase the return on all of our current niches, markets and investments. Governance Currently the corporation is being run by Ji Sama as Creative Director. Her role in the corporation is that of the squid while still holding the corporation steady on its course. She has full control of the key accounts in the corporation. Currently there is one other director role-holder in the corporation, and that is Scorpious Kross. The corporation operates out of 5 accounts totalling 18 wallets. These accounts are: Antiquarian (marketing alt 8 wallets) Ji Sama (main 8 wallets) TMP Primary (bank alt 1 wallet) Main Account (bank alt 1 wallet) Of these 18 wallets currently 5 are exposed to other corporation employees. Corporation primary wallet: Ji Sama, Avendale Armarrious, Avendale and Scorpious Kross Primary wallet 1: Maxwell Terallis Primary wallet 2: Dess Epin Secondary wallet: Emrr Representations wallet: All permanent employees Total in liabilities: 10B+ Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 08:07:00 - [2] Business Plan .a Our marketing plan is based on more than 1 year of market research and analysis. We buy low, sell high. Stockpile on assets that doesnÆt loose value and in addition if possible have a chance to increase in value. (We do multi-region trading, thatÆs a lot of work, and sometimes its dangerous, but giving margins in the 100-1000%+ range) What exactly our niches are and what exactly we trade in cant be disclosed. But in general terms, we trade in ore, minerals, salvage, alloys, ice, gas, ships and modules. Of the total invested capital we plan to use the majority of the capital in this sector. (The majority being more than 50% i.e. 12B+) .b Our innovation long term plan is to expand the corporation into many branches; these branches are focused on meta-gaming. And since they are more like an overall vision for the corporation based on. We also plan to become a large scale investor in the secondary market, and are looking into the possibility that corporations that share this core idea can form a thought of hedge fund. In a short down to earth phrase; we are looking to expand our current portfolio as well as broaden this portfolio! (Around 10-15%% of the total investment will be allocated into reinvestment and meta-gaming venues. Like EMMA, GMBA and the SCC-Lounge etc.) .c We are currently running R&D on some rig BPOÆs we plan to expand this operation with around 10-15%+ of the total investment. We want to start a production run, so we can actually see if this is a place we would want to expand further. The funds allocated to this R&D plan will be used to launch this demo. .d Our investment plan is easy to understand. We simply invest in the secondary market and the revenue that get us is an extra profit to the corp. Currently we have only touched the bond market, but we will with this investment try to move some of this over into the IPO market. Investments that are deemed low risk will only be made on behalf of the corp. Net Asset Value The estimated net worth of all liabilities, solid & liquid assets are: POS currently set up for R&D 5B ISK Tier 1 fleet 2.14B Tier 2 fleet 1.01B Faction fleet 2.58B Tier 1, Meta 3-4, Tier 2 and faction modules 4.19B Misc. solid assets; minerals, salvage, ice and trade goods etc. 3B+ Blueprint copies and originals 2B+ Market sell-order 8B+ Market buy-order 2B+ Contracts 2B+ Liquid Capital 1.5B Investments 13.6B Ordered assets under construction 3.6B Estimated total: 51.5 Billion ISK Risks The largest risk of failure involves fraud or scam. And since the largest liquid and solid asset worth is placed under the control of Ji Sama and her alts. The biggest loss would be if I scammed. To help relieve doubt any investor would have about this. I am disclosing full RL identity and Internet History. Facebook Profile The biggest guarantee I personally can give you is that I am not a scammer and I never will be a scammer. I have never scammed in a MMO, the closest thing I get to something remotely close to this, is when I played UO and I was pickpocket burglar, luring players out of the city so I could rob them etc.. And thatÆs a long time ago. Ji Sama is an integrated part of me, and therefore this is one thing that I am absolutely sure about. Also I have already invested over 30 Billion ISK in the secondary market. Biggest RL risk is me getting hit by a bus, in such case the SCC- Lounge will have access to my account data through my wife. And can liquidate all assets and distribute it to the investors, friends and my corp. mates! Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 08:09:00 - [3] Mains & Alts My main is Ji Sama. She is a year old character, and I encourage you to do your own research on my posts within the forum and my corporate history. In fact, do this before you buy any shares at all. It's a good habit to get into if you're a first time investor. Ji Sama (Jack of all trades) Antiquarian (Marketing Alt) Childeric III (Marketing Alt) Abdul Razzaq (Industrial Science Hauler Miner) CSO (Recon Alt) SamaÆs Minion (Recon Alt) Tzu Sama (Recon Alt) S717 (Recon Alt) Chotrud (Industrial Miner Science) TMP Industries (Security Alt) TMP Curator (Marketing Alt) Main Account (Bank Alt) TMP Paladin (Security Alt) TMP Primary (Bank Alt) Avendale (Marketing Alt) Avendale Amarrious (Marketing Alt) TGAOTU (Recon and Security Alt) Break Even Analysis This is quite simple, if for some reason I donÆt want to or arenÆt able to continue, assets will be liquidated, bonds and investments collected to repay investors at 95% buyback. Initial Public Offering Total number of shares: 100.000 Shares allocated for IPO ASTOCK 9000 BSTOCK 40000 Price per share 500.000 ISK Estimated total worth 24.5 Billion ISK Dividend is paid monthly. Return on investment will be 33% of the profit estimated at a 7% return per month i.e. 35.000 ISK per share per month. This offering will consist of 4 phases. First phase: announcement Second phase: ASTOCK shares will be sold to Friends, Fools and Family Third phase: BSTOCK shares will be sold to the public Fourth phase: TMP Industries offers buy back at 95% ASTOCK reservations status: Inactive BSTOCK reservations status: Inactive Corporation buyback status: Inactive Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.04.28 08:15:00 - [4] And the first magic word is....Audit?
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 08:18:00 - [5] Frequently Asked Questions How do I know this isnÆt a scam? You donÆt, simple as that. How do I know you will be successful? I have over the last year proven myself in just this particular line of business. I have also showed that I have done my research. I canÆt see this operation as a failure, and even so I have provided my investors with a break even analysis. Why are you doing this? Well I have wanted to launch an IPO since I started. I actually got hooked on EVE and the whole trade, secondary market and corporate management aspect of the game. What is you background? I am a 28 year old Danish male; I have a wife and 2 sons. IÆve worked inside the IT and Security Business, and have a military leadership education, that I use in the National Guard. I started playing UO then did a little bit of EQ then some DAOC then some AO then some WOW and now EVE. I wanted to play EVE from the start, but since I am a social person, I hang around for 3+ years in wow, just so I could play with my friends. I am a gamer by heart, and just to mention a few of my favourites: Civilization 1+2+3+4 CivNET Colonization 1+4 Alpha Centauri Call to Power 1+2 Starcraft Warcraft 1+2+3 Diablo 1+2 Dune 1+2 All EOTB and Dungeon Crawler type games Elite and Freelancer Total War the series Counter-Strike 1+2 Etc. I have run several ôguildsö all successful in their own environment. I am what you would call a FOTM-* and an AH *. I am also a role-player, with a former professional career behind me as game master and LARP manager. I also love sci-fi and own most series on DVD; Farscape, Stargate, Star-Trek, Babylon 5 and BSG etc. Lastly, my biggest interest is physics, philosophy and Aryan esoterically spiritualistic learning. I am also a bit of a tinfoil madman some would say, and I have an old war VR injury that causes me to trollà Well you ever buy back shares?** Yes, when we launch phase 4 TMP Industries will buy back shares that investors want to part with at 95% i.e. 475.000 ISK per share. What if someone ôwar decsö us? We have good standing with two mercenary corps. We also have ties to the PVP environment. While it is certain that a ôwar decö will cost the corporation greatly, profit wise. It is also certain that we will come out on the other side of the ôwar decö with minimum losses. Too explain. While it is true that we wouldnÆt be able to haul ourselves, and perhaps not even mine etcà We would still be able to turn around our stockpile while sitting in the station. Also to minimize chance of a ôwar decö no smack or grieving is allowed by our corporation members and the CEO (thatÆs me) has stopped trolling the C&P to assure the investors the stability of their shares. What is this 1 TRILLION IPO SCAM you tried to launch once? Original Thread Original Document Truth is there has never been a 1 trillion ISK IPO proposal. In my very first IPO offering I made the mistake of saying there was 1 Million shares for sale at 1 Million ISK each. (I also said I would buy half the shares, and I didnÆt have 500B ISKà No one ever seemed to want to see this, the mistake had been made.) While the manifest that was created asked for 10-20 Billion ISK. It never even reached the investor phase. Do I have to sell my shares back to the corporation? No you donÆt, itÆs a ôget out of jail free cardö that we offer as a service to our investors. Will the shares continue to pay dividend? Yes the share will continue to pay dividend, though an investor majority vote could change this, for a numerous of reasons. When can i buy shares? BSTOCK reservations will open on the 1st of May. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 08:19:00 - [6] reserved Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 08:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Viktor Raybach And the first magic word is....Audit? I have asked that your post be deleted, since it is disrupting my presentation. But I have quoted and answered it in this post, so I hope you donÆt mind. An audit will be performed if the investors wish for it. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.04.28 08:30:00 - [8] Originally by: Ji Sama Originally by: Viktor Raybach And the first magic word is....Audit? I have asked that your post be deleted, since it is disrupting my presentation. But I have quoted and answered it in this post, so I hope you donÆt mind. An audit will be performed if the investors wish for it. I do actually, that's why you reserve posts. So, let me get this right. Or rather, let me parse your statement for the viewers because i'm hoping you're meaning something other than how it actually reads and this is an ESL issue. If the investors (people who have already given you their money) ask for an audit, then you'll do one. Not, 'i'll have an audit done prior to the launch so that the auditor can verify everything i've claimed'? I just want to be absolutely clear which of those statements you're meaning with your answer.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 08:38:00 - [9] Well thank you for your cooperation. I had a format problem when I was about to post the FAQ. Not everything fitted so I had to reformulate some questions. Thank you for your understanding. You ask: It is of course potential investors I mean. If the ASTOCK buyers want an audit, they will get one. Later in the process if the ASTOCK buyers didnÆt want an audit, but the potential BSTOCK investors want, we will get an audit done then. Overall, if the potential investors want an audit done, they will get an audit. Hope that clears it upà Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Lui Kai Logistics Incorporated	Posted - 2009.04.28 08:41:00 - [10] 1. ASTOCK reservations open when? 2. Maybe I missed it, but divined payment begins how long after share distribution? 3. Share buyback offered how long after? 4. Hit-by-a-bus failsafe. If you disappeared, is Scorpious Kross (or anyone else) enabled to carry on the IPO, or execute the buybacks? ----------------

Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 08:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Lui Kai 1. ASTOCK reservations open when? 2. Maybe I missed it, but divined payment begins how long after share distribution? 3. Share buyback offered how long after? 4. Hit-by-a-bus failsafe. If you disappeared, is Scorpious Kross (or anyone else) enabled to carry on the IPO, or execute the buybacks? 1: reservations will be open from 16:00 today server time 2: Dividend payments begin one month after BSTOCK shares have been sold or on the the 8th of May, which ever comes first 3: Phase 4 i.e. buyback is offered right after phase 2 and 3 are done i.e. on the 8th of May at the latest. 4: There is currently no one in the corp that can take over my roles. But Scorpious Kross will have access to my accounts, if anything should happen to me. He has permession to give out these data to the SCC-Lounge SCS's Managers, they can then liquidate and buyback all shares. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 08:53:00 - [12] Originally by: Viktor Raybach Edited by: Viktor Raybach on 28/04/2009 08:22:50 And the first magic word is....Audit? And continuing on because my inner sceptic demands it: Originally by: Ji Sama Risks The largest risk of failure involves fraud or scam. And since the largest liquid and solid asset worth is placed under the control of Ji Sama and her alts. The biggest loss would be if I scammed. To help relieve doubt any investor would have about this. I am disclosing full RL identity and Internet History. Facebook Profile Linking to a facebook profile doesn't prove it's actually you. Nor does it provide any reassurance regarding scamming at all. There's no reason you can't scam because people know your (assuming it's yours) real name. As such your claim that this would relieve all doubt...doesn't hold up. Originally by: Ji Sama The biggest guarantee I personally can give you is that I am not a scammer and I never will be a scammer. I have never scammed in a MMO, the closest thing I get to something remotely close to this, is when I played UO and I was pickpocket burglar, luring players out of the city so I could rob them etc.. And thatÆs a long time ago. As I'm sure you're aware yourself, every scammer in the past week has said (to paraphrase) 'I'm not a scammer, doubledutch cross heart i'm not'. Originally by: Ji Sama Ji Sama is an integrated part of me, and therefore this is one thing that I am absolutely sure about. Also I have already invested over 30 Billion ISK in the secondary market. And those you've invested with will confirm it i'm sure. In essence this all comes back around to - audit needed. The profile is real, if you looked at the daily quotes you will see ive confirmed by writting that i am currently playing EVE on Ji Sama. The other point you bring, i cant argue against. There is nothing to stop me from scamming anyways. Just that it wouldn't be very nice to have a bunch of games harrasing me because i scammed them in a game. My RL associates and friends would wonder what all that was about.. I.e. i have no interest to bring any form of slander into my real life... I said it was a personal guarantee, it isn't worth anything and it is the best i can do. Not all investors want to disclose that what they owe or owed TMP Industries. And this part would not be included in any audit, except for those willing to step forward, of their own free will. Moreover there are plenty of posts here in the MD that confirms my investments.. Lastly, its 30B total invested over 1 year, i dont have 30B invested atm, as my NAC clearly states. Hopes that answer it. If not or you have any other questions, dont hesitate to ask :D Thanks for contributing to this thread! Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Lecherito	Posted - 2009.04.28 09:06:00 - [13] Hey mate, Business proposal looks good. An audit may be necessary, but I think your history/reputation speaks for itself. Looking forward to investing. -L
Lecherito	Posted - 2009.04.28 09:07:00 - [14] Oh, at any point will you offer 100% buybacks? Or will investors essentially have to ride out enough dividends just to "break even" ? -L
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.04.28 09:19:00 - [15] Comments 1. You have been on forums a decent amount of time, but have a pretty varied posting history to say the least. Several aborted business attempts and as you say your 1 Trillion IPO. 2. Due to some of your posts and the high amount of ISK asked for you ABSOLUTELY require an audit to even get any capital. You have an MD history, but it is a huge amount of cash. You still qualify as no previous IPO history so 24B is a lot. I required a full audit when I tried to raise 15B, and I would say I had a better MD history than you in terms of time, posts and content. 3. If you have a NAV of 50B+ why do you even need more cash? You must be very profitable, I wouldn't see why you need further capital investment. Seems wierd IPO, and you require an AUDIT to even start or no play.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 09:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Lecherito Oh, at any point will you offer 100% buybacks? Or will investors essentially have to ride out enough dividends just to "break even" ? -L We dont currently plan on buying back at 100%... One dividend payment should be enough to cover any losses with selling back to TMP Industries. You are ofcourse welcome to sell the share to other investors for any price you like... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 09:26:00 - [17] Originally by: cosmoray Comments 1. You have been on forums a decent amount of time, but have a pretty varied posting history to say the least. Several aborted business attempts and as you say your 1 Trillion IPO. 2. Due to some of your posts and the high amount of ISK asked for you ABSOLUTELY require an audit to even get any capital. You have an MD history, but it is a huge amount of cash. You still qualify as no previous IPO history so 24B is a lot. I required a full audit when I tried to raise 15B, and I would say I had a better MD history than you in terms of time, posts and content. 3. If you have a NAV of 50B+ why do you even need more cash? You must be very profitable, I wouldn't see why you need further capital investment. Seems wierd IPO, and you require an AUDIT to even start or no play. Hey Cosmo, thanks for dropping by... 1: I have no aborted or failed business attempts, since i have never gotten to an investment phase before... Only IPO i attempted to launch was my first as you mention the infamous 1 trillion IPO.. The other thing you are refering to was only a discussion... 2: Well ASTOCK shares are gonna go no matter i do an audit or not. But i have decided to get an audit done, and i am contacting an auditor now... 3: Well since my NAV is very diversified and it clearly shows that my liquids arent that high. The reasons are stated in the BP... a. to establish a firmer grip on the market b. so i dont have to roll over hard assets at a price i dont like because i need liqiud isk asap... etc. It would provide us with more freedom thought of speak. That last sentance i didnt quite catch on too. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.04.28 09:35:00 - [18] Originally by: Ji Sama 1: I have no aborted or failed business attempts, since i have never gotten to an investment phase before... Only IPO i attempted to launch was my first as you mention the infamous 1 trillion IPO.. The other thing you are refering to was only a discussion... You say that you have no aborted business attempts but then go on to say that you 'attempted to launch' an IPO. As this didn't launch, how can you claim it's not an aborted business attempt? Originally by: Ji Sama 2: Well ASTOCK shares are gonna go no matter i do an audit or not. But i have decided to get an audit done, and i am contacting an auditor now... I look forward to it, however, will this be an audit of all your characters or just this one? Originally by: Ji Sama 3: Well since my NAV is very diversified and it clearly shows that my liquids arent that high. The reasons are stated in the BP... a. to establish a firmer grip on the market b. so i dont have to roll over hard assets at a price i dont like because i need liqiud isk asap... etc. It would provide us with more freedom thought of speak. As it's public knowledge given I and many other people were in the channel at the time, and as I have no connection with Ebank... You attempted to get a loan from Ebank about a week ago. I don't see any mention of this debt in your NAV. Were you refused the loan, was it short-term (and will you ask for someone from Ebank to confirm if it was short-term and paid in full) etc? Moreover, attempting to get a loan and then a week later launching an IPO seems a little odd to me, especially given your NAV.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 09:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Viktor Raybach Originally by: Ji Sama 1: I have no aborted or failed business attempts, since i have never gotten to an investment phase before... Only IPO i attempted to launch was my first as you mention the infamous 1 trillion IPO.. The other thing you are refering to was only a discussion... You say that you have no aborted business attempts but then go on to say that you 'attempted to launch' an IPO. As this didn't launch, how can you claim it's not an aborted business attempt? Originally by: Ji Sama 2: Well ASTOCK shares are gonna go no matter i do an audit or not. But i have decided to get an audit done, and i am contacting an auditor now... I look forward to it, however, will this be an audit of all your characters or just this one? Originally by: Ji Sama 3: Well since my NAV is very diversified and it clearly shows that my liquids arent that high. The reasons are stated in the BP... a. to establish a firmer grip on the market b. so i dont have to roll over hard assets at a price i dont like because i need liqiud isk asap... etc. It would provide us with more freedom thought of speak. As it's public knowledge given I and many other people were in the channel at the time, and as I have no connection with Ebank... You attempted to get a loan from Ebank about a week ago. I don't see any mention of this debt in your NAV. Were you refused the loan, was it short-term (and will you ask for someone from Ebank to confirm if it was short-term and paid in full) etc? Moreover, attempting to get a loan and then a week later launching an IPO seems a little odd to me, especially given your NAV. 1: well it gets into a definition battle then.. since i never got to the phase where investors where asked to invest, i dont consider it a failed business, because there never was a business to begin with... 2: It will be an audit on the relevant accounts. 3: Its really simple.. I have tried a couple of times to get a loan from ebank, but never got to the phase were i was bothered applying... The reason for this is not that they turned me down, its the other way around. If i see a good deal, and i dont have the liquids to invest in it, i loan... thats easy... so instead of gaining 0% extra profit i get perhaps 25% profit of which i have to pay 10% interest etc. and 0% > 15% imo... Problem is with solid assets that when the time comes for a fast turn over you will loose profit. I am trying to stop myself out of the habbit of cutting profit for a faster roll over... I have explained that NAV doesnt equal Liquid ISK! The Businessplan also states what the ISK will be used for. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Janson Webb Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.28 10:34:00 - [20] Do you intend to set a minimum number of shares per reservation?

cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.04.28 10:37:00 - [21] Problem with some of your previous IPO discussions you did try to sell shares on more than one occasion. 1. You tried with your 1 Trillion ISK IPO, and then made a bunch of edits (which you do frequently). 2. You tried a 20B IPO (discussion) more recently for the small investor, and in the end even offered about 15B in collateral to make it work. You still didn't get any bites. 3. Many of your IPO discussions lead you to dropping the proposal which isn't good for the investor confidence. 4. Although you do have an extensive posting history it mainly consists of jokes and quips, and minimal constructive comment followed by repeated edits to many posts. 5. Did you apply for a loan? I would like EBANK to clarify. Did they reject you? Now if you were willing to throw 15B collateral for a previous failed IPO attempt why not put that amount up again this time. That would make the the IPO 60% secured. 60% security with audit would help out. Another factor not helping you though is that Atima seems to have disappeared on a 60B IPO with 80% security.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 10:39:00 - [22] Originally by: Janson Webb Do you intend to set a minimum number of shares per reservation? There is no minimum on ASTOCK shares. BSTOCK is limited to lots of 100 shares i.e. 50.000.000 ISK Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.04.28 10:58:00 - [23] Originally by: Ji Sama There is no minimum on ASTOCK shares. BSTOCK is limited to lots of 100 shares i.e. 50.000.000 ISK You expect to get 400 different investors? You've not really thought this number through, have you?
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 11:02:00 - [24] Edited by: Ji Sama on 28/04/2009 11:02:46 Originally by: Viktor Raybach Originally by: Ji Sama There is no minimum on ASTOCK shares. BSTOCK is limited to lots of 100 shares i.e. 50.000.000 ISK You expect to get 400 different investors? You've not really thought this number through, have you? Thank you for pointing that out i wasnt clear, it is ofcourse a minimum... ie. there are no minimum on ASTOCK but the minimum on BSTOCK is 100 share lots. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 11:14:00 - [25] Originally by: cosmoray Problem with some of your previous IPO discussions you did try to sell shares on more than one occasion. 1. You tried with your 1 Trillion ISK IPO, and then made a bunch of edits (which you do frequently). 2. You tried a 20B IPO (discussion) more recently for the small investor, and in the end even offered about 15B in collateral to make it work. You still didn't get any bites. 3. Many of your IPO discussions lead you to dropping the proposal which isn't good for the investor confidence. 4. Although you do have an extensive posting history it mainly consists of jokes and quips, and minimal constructive comment followed by repeated edits to many posts. 5. Did you apply for a loan? I would like EBANK to clarify. Did they reject you? Now if you were willing to throw 15B collateral for a previous failed IPO attempt why not put that amount up again this time. That would make the the IPO 60% secured. 60% security with audit would help out. Another factor not helping you though is that Atima seems to have disappeared on a 60B IPO with 80% security. Hey again cosmo :D 1: Well EVE search should have the original... But when i think about it you are right... i did offer shares on the 1000 trillion isk ipo... i stand corrected, memory did me wrong there.. 2: there was plenty of interest in the small time investor ipo.. id didnt launch because i didnt go forward with it. and that was a pure discussion, nothing was being offered... I think it was Bobby and Kwint that had some excellent points on why it wasnt a good idea.. 3: well i dont drop out without a reason, and i see it as my right to drop out at anytime up untill actual payment. In return i grant the same right to the 7 investors that have already reserved 4650 ASTOCK shares. They can pull the plug on this investment right up till the actual transfer.. then the deal is sealed. 4: dont know what you want me to say here.. 5: No i did not apply for the loan, i got it through i private investor that saw that i was looking for a loan. that saved me the hazzle of the ebank procedure... I dont see why ebank would turn me down, since it was 110% secured loan. 6: I am not throwing security at this for 1 reason, some of the MD'ers i do discuss with brought it to my attention that it would just be unhealthy for TMP Industries to provide the security. Its just not good business for us.. And we are doing this to create good business for us and for the investors.. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.04.28 11:41:00 - [26] If you want to generate trust in the investor community who are the investors who have reserved. I see none in this thread. You have seen enough IPO launches to know that is an absolute no-no for IPO launches to state all reservations are not in the public IPO post. You will get flamed for scam tactic if you don't reveal or get some to post their reservations.
Jadun	Posted - 2009.04.28 11:47:00 - [27] yo ho all This seems oki doki so far. Got a little Question to throw in. Will there be any difference between A and B stock? Meaning Are Payouts or buybacks different? I am still noobish with the MD forum and got a lot to learn, but me thinks that Ji Sama put some hard work into Presenting TMPI Best of luck to Tash-Murkon Prime Industries. Jadun P.S. Is there a ingame Chat Channel where questions could be asked?
Lui Kai Logistics Incorporated	Posted - 2009.04.28 11:50:00 - [28] Edited by: Lui Kai on 28/04/2009 11:50:45 Though I have no mentionable reputation in MD - I'm one of the folks who've reserved 100 A-stock. I've talked with Ji about the IPO in SCC - and told him my impression on it. I pointed out that the IPO has 0 in-game failsafes, and the only out of game failsafe would be pestering him/his friends/family via Facebook/Myspace. Despite this fact, I chose to invest for purely subjective reasons (I'm of the impression that Ji values his character/corporate rep more than the funds he's raising). I'm investing (very) modestly, and the return is respectable. Ji openly agreed with me that he found the above accurate. ----------------
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 11:58:00 - [29] Originally by: cosmoray If you want to generate trust in the investor community who are the investors who have reserved. I see none in this thread. You have seen enough IPO launches to know that is an absolute no-no for IPO launches to state all reservations are not in the public IPO post. You will get flamed for scam tactic if you don't reveal or get some to post their reservations. Ofcourse i just didnt want to announce the list of investors untill the reservation on the ASTOCK is in fact opened.. Post will be updated with investor list and status of investment... I am 100% open about this, and have been so in every answer, in here and in various chats around EVE. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 12:01:00 - [30] Originally by: Jadun yo ho all This seems oki doki so far. Got a little Question to throw in. Will there be any difference between A and B stock? Meaning Are Payouts or buybacks different? I am still noobish with the MD forum and got a lot to learn, but me thinks that Ji Sama put some hard work into Presenting TMPI Best of luck to Tash-Murkon Prime Industries. Jadun P.S. Is there a ingame Chat Channel where questions could be asked? There are no diference in A vs B Stock when it comes to payment, worth, dividend etc. And ofcourse the fact that there are no minimum on the ASTOCK where it is 100 shares in the BSTOCK! There are channels you can join. scc-lounge and there are other legit trading channels. i also recomend that you join ebank channel. atleast to pick up on whats moving around that part. And welcome to the MD forum :D Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com

Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 12:02:00 - [31] Originally by: Lui Kai Edited by: Lui Kai on 28/04/2009 11:50:45 Though I have no mentionable reputation in MD - I'm one of the folks who've reserved 100 A-stock. I've talked with Ji about the IPO in SCC - and told him my impression on it. I pointed out that the IPO has 0 in-game failsafes, and the only out of game failsafe would be pestering him/his friends/family via Facebook/Myspace. Despite this fact, I chose to invest for purely subjective reasons (I'm of the impression that Ji values his character/corporate rep more than the funds he's raising). I'm investing (very) modestly, and the return is respectable. Ji openly agreed with me that he found the above accurate. Confirming we are in agreement on the security issues.. Thanks for the kind words.. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Takemikazuki Celrydreahad Finance	Posted - 2009.04.28 12:17:00 - [32] It would be a smoother launch if ye arranged an audit before presenting the IPO to the public.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 12:27:00 - [33] Originally by: Takemikazuki It would be a smoother launch if ye arranged an audit before presenting the IPO to the public. i actually never planned on doing this without an audit. i have contacted an auditor that has worked for me in the past. we will see if the auditor accepts my proposal.. if not then your right, it would create a bump in the launch... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.04.28 13:28:00 - [34] Originally by: Ji Sama i actually never planned on doing this without an audit. i have contacted an auditor that has worked for me in the past. we will see if the auditor accepts my proposal.. if not then your right, it would create a bump in the launch... That's odd because you made no mention of an audit in any of your initial material. When I raised the subject of an audit you stated you'd do one if the investors asked, later clarified to if the potential investors asked. You then went on to say you'd do one. Could you explain why, if you planned on doing an audit from the start, you made no mention of it until asked and didn't contact an auditor until after it had been raised in the thread? It might seem like a very minor point as far as the timeline is concerned, but I have a distrust of inconsistency in any business proposal or explanation of such.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 13:36:00 - [35] Originally by: Viktor Raybach Originally by: Ji Sama i actually never planned on doing this without an audit. i have contacted an auditor that has worked for me in the past. we will see if the auditor accepts my proposal.. if not then your right, it would create a bump in the launch... That's odd because you made no mention of an audit in any of your initial material. When I raised the subject of an audit you stated you'd do one if the investors asked, later clarified to if the potential investors asked. You then went on to say you'd do one. Could you explain why, if you planned on doing an audit from the start, you made no mention of it until asked and didn't contact an auditor until after it had been raised in the thread? It might seem like a very minor point as far as the timeline is concerned, but I have a distrust of inconsistency in any business proposal or explanation of such. The reason you have holes are because you arenÆt in my loop... And that is not your own fault, so I will enlighten. I tried to convo up my auditor earlier today. He was afk. I then announce in the scc-lounge that I am launching TMP Industries as an IPO. I then get into various private chats with different people from the MD where they all are very helpful in pointing out things I need to elaborate on. That being the lack of audit information amongst others. My plan was, just to have the auditor post here, confirming that he would be doing the audit. I think what you see as inconsistencies are simply my limited vocabulary and lack of ability to properly make my self understandable.. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:24:00 - [36] Originally by: Takemikazuki It would be a smoother launch if ye arranged an audit before presenting the IPO to the public. Originally by: Ji Sama i actually never planned on doing this without an audit. i have contacted an auditor that has worked for me in the past. I've done some auditing for Ji Sama before so I'll go ahead and dip into this one again. The delay was purely my own as Ji did try contacting me prior to the posting. I can see why people may think that waiting for the audit results might be wise but the flipside not waiting shows a mark of confidence in the results. (I've been busy the past couple of days - Ooops) Please allow 24 - 48 hours for me to do this. Also we haven't discussed any compensation (though in the past Ji has, imho, overcompensated me for work done) so I'd like to say, "Don't count your reservations as firm until I've had a chance to argue payroll with Ji."
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:30:00 - [37] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Takemikazuki It would be a smoother launch if ye arranged an audit before presenting the IPO to the public. Originally by: Ji Sama i actually never planned on doing this without an audit. i have contacted an auditor that has worked for me in the past. I've done some auditing for Ji Sama before so I'll go ahead and dip into this one again. The delay was purely my own as Ji did try contacting me prior to the posting. I can see why people may think that waiting for the audit results might be wise but the flipside not waiting shows a mark of confidence in the results. (I've been busy the past couple of days - Ooops) Please allow 24 - 48 hours for me to do this. Also we haven't discussed any compensation (though in the past Ji has, imho, overcompensated me for work done) so I'd like to say, "Don't count your reservations as firm until I've had a chance to argue payroll with Ji." Moslty because there was no mention of an audit in the primary offering and when asked he stated only when the question arrizes from investors for an audit.Then above he replied he allways meant to do an audit. I can see how the other poster would find this odd and in contradiciton with the OP's previous words. I am sure with you backing him up on the fact he asked for it prior to the offering it will assure people of his intentions.
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:35:00 - [38] Originally by: flakeys I can see how the other poster would find this odd and in contradiciton with the OP's previous words. I am sure with you backing him up on the fact he asked for it prior to the offering it will assure people of his intentions. IMHO, grill the hell out of him. Just because I'm doing an audit doens't mean he gets a pass on the usual roasting. I just can't do it (though I'd like to) as my position is a bit ambiguous at this point.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:36:00 - [39] Originally by: flakeys Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Takemikazuki It would be a smoother launch if ye arranged an audit before presenting the IPO to the public. Originally by: Ji Sama i actually never planned on doing this without an audit. i have contacted an auditor that has worked for me in the past. I've done some auditing for Ji Sama before so I'll go ahead and dip into this one again. The delay was purely my own as Ji did try contacting me prior to the posting. I can see why people may think that waiting for the audit results might be wise but the flipside not waiting shows a mark of confidence in the results. (I've been busy the past couple of days - Ooops) Please allow 24 - 48 hours for me to do this. Also we haven't discussed any compensation (though in the past Ji has, imho, overcompensated me for work done) so I'd like to say, "Don't count your reservations as firm until I've had a chance to argue payroll with Ji." Moslty because there was no mention of an audit in the primary offering and when asked he stated only when the question arrizes from investors for an audit.Then above he replied he allways meant to do an audit. I can see how the other poster would find this odd and in contradiciton with the OP's previous words. I am sure with you backing him up on the fact he asked for it prior to the offering it will assure people of his intentions. Well i actually need to step in here for a little sec. The way this was posted, it was prior to post. I can see i wasnt clear enough on what i meant with; the investors gets an audit if they want one. I was mainly refering to ASTOCK as i knew these would sell before any audit could be concluded. I have always said, and im saying it again; that if i was ever to launch an IPO, i would disclose RL data, all accounts and alt, and submit to peer review and a full audit.. The blame is on me for not being clear enough on this... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:37:00 - [40] Edited by: Ji Sama on 28/04/2009 14:38:47 Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: flakeys I can see how the other poster would find this odd and in contradiciton with the OP's previous words. I am sure with you backing him up on the fact he asked for it prior to the offering it will assure people of his intentions. IMHO, grill the hell out of him. Just because I'm doing an audit doens't mean he gets a pass on the usual roasting. I just can't do it (though I'd like to) as my position is a bit ambiguous at this point. Well i would expect you to give me no parlor in this audit... So bring me what you got... EDIT: also i have informed Hawk that no matter the outcome of the audit, he will get full compensation for is work... just so we are clear here... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com

Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:53:00 - [41] Edited by: Viktor Raybach on 28/04/2009 14:54:57 Originally by: Ji Sama The reason you have holes are because you arenÆt in my loop... And that is not your own fault, so I will enlighten. I tried to convo up my auditor earlier today. He was afk. I then announce in the scc-lounge that I am launching TMP Industries as an IPO. I then get into various private chats with different people from the MD where they all are very helpful in pointing out things I need to elaborate on. That being the lack of audit information amongst others. My plan was, just to have the auditor post here, confirming that he would be doing the audit. I think what you see as inconsistencies are simply my limited vocabulary and lack of ability to properly make my self understandable.. Minor point but that's still not matching up with the timeline. You announce IPO, make no mention of Audit I raise the subject of audit You say one will be done if the investors/potential investors ask for one Other people say an audit is needed Only then do you say that you're going to do an audit. It's not until after this that you then say you always intended to do one. However that's directly contradicted by your earlier statement that you'd have one done if the investors asked you to. Note, you'd do one if they asked, not 'I of course will get one done and am waiting to hear back from an auditor'. With Shar confirming it then your claim's born out but that's not what you said, and it certainly wasn't reflected in your responses on the subject. As I said, it's a minor point, but it's inconsistent.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 15:05:00 - [42] Originally by: Viktor Raybach Edited by: Viktor Raybach on 28/04/2009 14:54:57 Originally by: Ji Sama The reason you have holes are because you arenÆt in my loop... And that is not your own fault, so I will enlighten. I tried to convo up my auditor earlier today. He was afk. I then announce in the scc-lounge that I am launching TMP Industries as an IPO. I then get into various private chats with different people from the MD where they all are very helpful in pointing out things I need to elaborate on. That being the lack of audit information amongst others. My plan was, just to have the auditor post here, confirming that he would be doing the audit. I think what you see as inconsistencies are simply my limited vocabulary and lack of ability to properly make my self understandable.. Minor point but that's still not matching up with the timeline. You announce IPO, make no mention of Audit I raise the subject of audit You say one will be done if the investors/potential investors ask for one Other people say an audit is needed Only then do you say that you're going to do an audit. It's not until after this that you then say you always intended to do one. However that's directly contradicted by your earlier statement that you'd have one done if the investors asked you to. Note, you'd do one if they asked, not 'I of course will get one done and am waiting to hear back from an auditor'. With Shar confirming it then your claim's born out but that's not what you said, and it certainly wasn't reflected in your responses on the subject. As I said, it's a minor point, but it's inconsistent. Well your right anyways... It is an inconsistency, i have tried to explain this.. This IPO isnt something that was launched on a day to day basis. The model have been under quite some discussion, and i was actually convinced into limiting the audit i wanted... There are many from the Lounge and the MD forum that will confirm what i have said. If i where to launch an IPO i would always commit to an audit... I was talking in context about the ASTOCK shares. I hope we have cleared this matter out now. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.04.28 15:15:00 - [43] Originally by: Viktor Raybach As I said, it's a minor point, but it's inconsistent. If this is as bad as the critique of this IPO is going to get, Ji's got this one in the bag even without an audit. (I.e. Tempest in a teapot it seems)
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.04.28 16:02:00 - [44] Originally by: Ji Sama Currently there is one other director role-holder in the corporation, and that is Scorpious Kross. It seems unlikely to be necessary to audit all employees (if the enterprise's exposure to each is sufficiently limited). However, a second Director sounds like (at least) one more account for the auditor to examine.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.28 16:06:00 - [45] Originally by: Thoraemond Originally by: Ji Sama Currently there is one other director role-holder in the corporation, and that is Scorpious Kross. It seems unlikely to be necessary to audit all employees (if the enterprise's exposure to each is sufficiently limited). However, a second Director sounds like (at least) one more account for the auditor to examine. I should be a requirement, anyone with director roles and access has damn near the same liability as a CEO as far as a public interest goes. Standard employees can be skipped for the most part, however names will need to be provided so that a background check against eve-search and employment history can be done. Depending on time involved, whoever is doing the audit should spend at least 3-4 hours on this one. Scrubbing your corporate wallets, your director's wallet, your wallet, and then spamming that against employment histories. ...at least this is what I would do.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 16:59:00 - [46] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Thoraemond Originally by: Ji Sama Currently there is one other director role-holder in the corporation, and that is Scorpious Kross. It seems unlikely to be necessary to audit all employees (if the enterprise's exposure to each is sufficiently limited). However, a second Director sounds like (at least) one more account for the auditor to examine. I should be a requirement, anyone with director roles and access has damn near the same liability as a CEO as far as a public interest goes. Standard employees can be skipped for the most part, however names will need to be provided so that a background check against eve-search and employment history can be done. Depending on time involved, whoever is doing the audit should spend at least 3-4 hours on this one. Scrubbing your corporate wallets, your director's wallet, your wallet, and then spamming that against employment histories. ...at least this is what I would do. That is a fair point, i would have to run it past him of course before giving his api out. Though it is an uninteresting account in regards to the corp assets and wallets. Since he doesnt have the roles because he has the qualifications to be a NCO, (in EVE that is.) But he purely have these roles because i have known him for 23 years and i would trust him with my life (we serve in the same squad in the national guard) So i never thought twice about granting him director roles. He is also the corps failsafe mechanism should i be hit by a bus. I will get his agreement to send his API key to Hawk... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.04.28 17:23:00 - [47] Edited by: Viktor Raybach on 28/04/2009 17:23:54 Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Viktor Raybach As I said, it's a minor point, but it's inconsistent. If this is as bad as the critique of this IPO is going to get, Ji's got this one in the bag even without an audit. (I.e. Tempest in a teapot it seems) 1) Contentious (note contentious, not shady) past history with 1 abandoned IPO of dubious merit (1 trillion isk) 2) No security 3) Large amount of Isk requested for first launch Those three in and of themselves are going to put off X amount of potential investors even with an audit.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 17:33:00 - [48] Originally by: Viktor Raybach Edited by: Viktor Raybach on 28/04/2009 17:23:54 Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Viktor Raybach As I said, it's a minor point, but it's inconsistent. If this is as bad as the critique of this IPO is going to get, Ji's got this one in the bag even without an audit. (I.e. Tempest in a teapot it seems) 1) Contentious (note contentious, not shady) past history with 1 abandoned IPO of dubious merit (1 trillion isk) 2) No security 3) Large amount of Isk requested for first launch Those three in and of themselves are going to put off X amount of potential investors even with an audit. 1: It wasnt 1 trillion isk, it was 20B tops.. But a good thing i never launched, because i had underestimated the move from millions to billions, and that ballgame actually took me 3 months to figure out... 2: No security, nothing to argue about here, i have stated why this IPO doesnt provide any security other than a break even analysis.. 3: Its half our NAV i actually think that the shares could sell for more. Though i took an amount i knew i would be comfortable with... Anything higher and i might begin to tilt. Anything lower and i could just aswell get a bond... This is a real deal IPO, its not for short term profit, this investment is not for everyone. Its an investment in the corp, not your wallet. The ROI is just an incentive... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.28 17:43:00 - [49] Well, that's some impressive quanitity of text I've just had to read through! It's fairly obvious that you have put some time and effort into this, which is in stark contrast with the rubbish we have been bombarded with in MD recently. Well done! However... 24.5 billion? Handed over to you and your corpmates? For an estimated 7% return? With no real security? No way, no how. That's far too much to hand over to a publicly untested entity no matter how decent and upstanding they may appear to be in forums and in-game channels. I can understand your ASTOCK investors will invest because they know you better than I do and because they have made their call based on the trust you have built up with them. But for me and other potential BSTOCK investors, it would be simply stupid for us to hand over that much isk to you without security while preserving any good expectations of seeing it back again. In my opinion there simply has to be more security on this. That said, I think there is potential here and with a little more work this could be made to fly. I'll be back when I've had more time to think and re-read.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 17:48:00 - [50] Originally by: Bad Bobby Well, that's some impressive quanitity of text I've just had to read through! It's fairly obvious that you have put some time and effort into this, which is in stark contrast with the rubbish we have been bombarded with in MD recently. Well done! However... 24.5 billion? Handed over to you and your corpmates? For an estimated 7% return? With no real security? No way, no how. That's far too much to hand over to a publicly untested entity no matter how decent and upstanding they may appear to be in forums and in-game channels. I can understand your ASTOCK investors will invest because they know you better than I do and because they have made their call based on the trust you have built up with them. But for me and other potential BSTOCK investors, it would be simply stupid for us to hand over that much isk to you without security while preserving any good expectations of seeing it back again. In my opinion there simply has to be more security on this. That said, I think there is potential here and with a little more work this could be made to fly. I'll be back when I've had more time to think and re-read. Thank you very much for your input bobby. I can see the cause of your concern, and i know that i am asking for alot considering this is my first real public offer. All ASTOCK shares was reserved because of the lobby work ive done before hand i agree here. And no that doesnt mean squat ** to you, i can understand that. Actually just for as general information the interest in this has been huge, way over what i expected, and i did expect the IPO to fill but not this fast. If i wanted to i could have sold 25% of the BSTOCK already, because quite frankly there was just to little ASTOCK involved in this. Thats my mistake however. If you could somehow come with an idea on how i could increase security without limiting myself on my margin i would be very open to that. thanks for contributing to this thread... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE** is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com

PublicRelations Kwint Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:06:00 - [51] It's always nice to see an offering that has had some serious thought and time put into writing it up, especially these days. However, I'm am wary of putting 24.5B of unsecured ISK into the hands of an untested man. That is a very large number to start with (far larger than I or anyone of the other regulars started with to give a measure of perspective) and as such I am quite hesitant to invest. Since you're relying on trading, surely this number could be cut down a bit in the beginning. With regular audits tracking your progress -something I'm a fan of for all business, not just yours- it would be clear that you are indeed running a legitimate business and perhaps you could issue additional shares monthly until you have 24.5B and beyond but as a first venture, this seems inordinately high. When dealing with something so ambiguous yet readily verifiable as trading, I think an audit ought always to be called for and I will certainly do so now. If Shar produces a nice detailed report showing tons of complex and lucrative trading then it would go a long way towards convincing me that you can be entrusted with 24.5B but failing that we are left with a string of failed IPO attempts and your posting history which at a glance seems more fluff than substance. I expect I'll be reserving further comment until that audit comes through, then we can really debate this. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:07:00 - [52] Originally by: Ji Sama Actually just for as general information the interest in this has been huge, way over what i expected, and i did expect the IPO to fill but not this fast. If i wanted to i could have sold 25% of the BSTOCK already, because quite frankly there was just to little ASTOCK involved in this. Thats my mistake however. Then you are a superb lobbyist with a good handle on PR and/or have many friends willing to take a chance on you. This does not make the investment sound by any measure usually applied in MD. The total lack of any worthwhile investment oppertunities over recent months is no doubt contributing to this, just as if you had dangled a bag of crack in front of a cold turkeyed addict's nose. But desperation is no excuse for throwing out the rulebook. Originally by: Ji Sama If you could somehow come with an idea on how i could increase security without limiting myself on my margin i would be very open to that. Now we are talking. Let's look at this: POS currently set up for R&D 5B ISK Tier 1 fleet 2.14B Tier 2 fleet 1.01B Faction fleet 2.58B Tier 1, Meta 3-4, Tier 2 and faction modules 4.19B Misc. solid assets; minerals, salvage, ice and trade goods etc. 3B+ Blueprint copies and originals 2B+ Market sell-order 8B+ Market buy-order 2B+ Contracts 2B+ Liquid Capital 1.5B Investments 13.6B Ordered assets under construction 3.6B I've underlined 20.6b of assets that may have potential for use as collateral without impacting your margins. Let's talk about those.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:12:00 - [53] Edited by: Ji Sama on 28/04/2009 18:12:38 Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Ji Sama Actually just for as general information the interest in this has been huge, way over what i expected, and i did expect the IPO to fill but not this fast. If i wanted to i could have sold 25% of the BSTOCK already, because quite frankly there was just to little ASTOCK involved in this. Thats my mistake however. Then you are a superb lobbyist with a good handle on PR and/or have many friends willing to take a chance on you. This does not make the investment sound by any measure usually applied in MD. The total lack of any worthwhile investment oppertunities over recent months is no doubt contributing to this, just as if you had dangled a bag of crack in front of a cold turkeyed addict's nose. But desperation is no excuse for throwing out the rulebook. Originally by: Ji Sama If you could somehow come with an idea on how i could increase security without limiting myself on my margin i would be very open to that. Now we are talking. Let's look at this: POS currently set up for R&D 5B ISK Tier 1 fleet 2.14B Tier 2 fleet 1.01B Faction fleet 2.58B Tier 1, Meta 3-4, Tier 2 and faction modules 4.19B Misc. solid assets; minerals, salvage, ice and trade goods etc. 3B+ Blueprint copies and originals 2B+ Market sell-order 8B+ Market buy-order 2B+ Contracts 2B+ Liquid Capital 1.5B Investments 13.6B Ordered assets under construction 3.6B I've underlined 20.6b of assets that may have potential for use as collateral without impacting your margins. Let's talk about those. rgr. the investment is currently in bond form spread out on 4 investments loans (one i would describe as high risk and would consider that as a bigger liability than the rest! (it is however only a very small loan) i dont see how i can use that as security... the blueprints could be used as security np there, since we are doing limited research atm, we arent using most (about 99% of the bpo's and bpc's) the pos i dont see how you could secure, if you by secure mean take down... ps: i wasnt saying that my lobbying should be a sign of a legit investment, i was only saying that i didnt make enough :D EDIT: the faction fleet could in theory be liquidated, since its only bling bling, and expensive bling bling at that... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:12:00 - [54] The POS is number 1 on the security list. It would be pretty trivial to move this to a holdings corporation and have TMP join in an alliance so that access could still be had and operations continue. There is the obvious small details of tearing down/putting up/refuel but its pretty small. The prints would be the next best option, but then you get into issues of how to secure them and still maintain some type of corporation since to build off them, the build alt would have to be in the holding corporation unless things were run off a copy system. Copies could work depending on your consumption amounts. I know there are a number of people here that could do the former, and quite a bit that could assist with the latter.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:16:00 - [55] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria The POS is number 1 on the security list. It would be pretty trivial to move this to a holdings corporation and have TMP join in an alliance so that access could still be had and operations continue. There is the obvious small details of tearing down/putting up/refuel but its pretty small. The prints would be the next best option, but then you get into issues of how to secure them and still maintain some type of corporation since to build off them, the build alt would have to be in the holding corporation unless things were run off a copy system. Copies could work depending on your consumption amounts. I know there are a number of people here that could do the former, and quite a bit that could assist with the latter. i just wanna be clear that we are talking a very big pos here... its not something you just take down... since we are only starting to move into the bpo / construction business, alot of this could be secured... imo... i would be thankful for any pointers as who could help with this. though i must say atm. taking the pos down seems out of the question.. it would take some 24 hours i think to offline and unanchor it all! Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:22:00 - [56] I have to log off now, so I'll pick this up tommorrow. But I'll say that Kazzac has it right with the POS and BPOs. Those could easily be secured with myself or Kazuo or one of many other trusted parties. If the principle is acceptable to you then we can get into the details next. The investments could be transferred over to a trusted third party who will then send back any dividends/interest to you. But obviously this depends on the investments in question. Once again, if the principle is acceptable to you then we can discuss the details.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:22:00 - [57] i have a problem though, (it doesnt have to be a problem) if i use the pos and the bpo's + the returned investments as security. i would effectively neuter my R&D plan imo.. And since that has an estimated 10-15% of the invesment this ipo brings in, this could in theory be removed, but this changes to much of the overall plan imo. nothing i couldnt handle, but i still think that the whole IPO should be reviewed then.. i dont know, im just not comfortable with making huge changes in the BP after the offer has started, and investments has been reserved. dunno, im in two minds here... (im thinking out loud here, i have no current plan to divert from the BP, but i am more than open to suggestions on how to increase security without limiting my potential profit.) Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:23:00 - [58] Originally by: Ji Sama i just wanna be clear that we are talking a very big pos here... its not something you just take down... since we are only starting to move into the bpo / construction business, alot of this could be secured... imo... i would be thankful for any pointers as who could help with this. though i must say atm. taking the pos down seems out of the question.. it would take some 24 hours i think to offline and unanchor it all! EDIT: ok 24 hours is a bit over the top, but it has alot of anchored offline weapon systems etc... hardeners! etc. You don't necessarily have to take that POS down immediately. Funds are secured and used to purchase the exact same items and then powered up at the same time while you tear the first one down. TMP is then left to liquidate the first POS at their leisure. The purchase of the second POS would be handled by the previous mentioned holding corp. A somewhat smaller model of how this works in operation is a public investment handled by Bad Bobby by which he secured a capital ship from the OP, funds from the investors, distributed funds to the OP, and then held the carrier until bond completion. Only this in instance, the POS would be placed up and running. Just for sh*ts and giggles, if you could securitize the POS and prints, you've easily gotten almost to 50% security. Add in the bonds and you're damn near at 100%. With that much security you might even be able to negotiate a lower public rate
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:24:00 - [59] Originally by: Bad Bobby I have to log off now, so I'll pick this up tommorrow. But I'll say that Kazzac has it right with the POS and BPOs. Those could easily be secured with myself or Kazuo or one of many other trusted parties. If the principle is acceptable to you then we can get into the details next. The investments could be transferred over to a trusted third party who will then send back any dividends/interest to you. But obviously this depends on the investments in question. Once again, if the principle is acceptable to you then we can discuss the details. i agree on the principle, we can discuss terms and details later, we have plenty of time imo. i am really glad you decided to contribute to this ! its just a big pos, but perhaps its feels this way because i set it up solo... :P in a badger :p Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:25:00 - [60] Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 28/04/2009 18:16:19 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria The POS is number 1 on the security list. It would be pretty trivial to move this to a holdings corporation and have TMP join in an alliance so that access could still be had and operations continue. There is the obvious small details of tearing down/putting up/refuel but its pretty small. The prints would be the next best option, but then you get into issues of how to secure them and still maintain some type of corporation since to build off them, the build alt would have to be in the holding corporation unless things were run off a copy system. Copies could work depending on your consumption amounts. I know there are a number of people here that could do the former, and quite a bit that could assist with the latter. i just wanna be clear that we are talking a very big pos here... its not something you just take down... since we are only starting to move into the bpo / construction business, alot of this could be secured... imo... i would be thankful for any pointers as who could help with this. though i must say atm. taking the pos down seems out of the question.. it would take some 24 hours i think to offline and unanchor it all! EDIT: ok 24 hours is a bit over the top, but it has alot of anchored offline weapon systems etc... hardeners! etc. Believe me, I have put up and taken down more POSes than you can possibly imagine. I understand what is involved in that, both with and without heavy firepower assistance.

Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:27:00 - [61] Originally by: Ji Sama i have a problem though, (it doesnt have to be a problem) if i use the pos and the bpo's + the returned investments as security. i would effectively neuter my R&D plan imo.. And since that has an estimated 10-15% of the invesment this ipo brings in, this could in theory be removed, but this changes to much of the overall plan imo. nothing i couldnt handle, but i still think that the whole IPO should be reviewed then.. i dont know, im just not comfortable with making huge changes in the BP after the offer has started, and investments has been reserved. dunno, im in two minds here... (im thinking out loud here, i have no current plan to divert from the BP, but i am more than open to suggestions on how to increase security without limiting my potential profit.) The ways around issues are pretty easy depending on what you intended goal is. I know you don't want to let the cat out of the bag on some things, so if you'd like feel free to get in touch with myself of Bad Bobby, or any one of the many trusted folks around here. Either of us can be trusted to go over details and help you discuss your plan and how it might fit into any securitized options. This way you might be able to make up your mind one way or the other if you're (and your corpmates too ) comfortable with that.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:29:00 - [62] Edited by: Ji Sama on 28/04/2009 18:32:59 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Ji Sama i just wanna be clear that we are talking a very big pos here... its not something you just take down... since we are only starting to move into the bpo / construction business, alot of this could be secured... imo... i would be thankful for any pointers as who could help with this. though i must say atm. taking the pos down seems out of the question.. it would take some 24 hours i think to offline and unanchor it all! EDIT: ok 24 hours is a bit over the top, but it has alot of anchored offline weapon systems etc... hardeners! etc. You don't necessarily have to take that POS down immediately. Funds are secured and used to purchase the exact same items and then powered up at the same time while you tear the first one down. TMP is then left to liquidate the first POS at their leisure. The purchase of the second POS would be handled by the previous mentioned holding corp. A somewhat smaller model of how this works in operation is a public investment handled by Bad Bobby by which he secured a capital ship from the OP, funds from the investors, distributed funds to the OP, and then held the carrier until bond completion. Only this in instance, the POS would be placed up and running. Just for shts and giggles, if you could securitize the POS and prints, you've easily gotten almost to 50% security. Add in the bonds and you're damn near at 100%. With that much security you might even be able to negotiate a lower public rate well its not about the rate tbh, i wanted to make a fair and real IPO offering, that would benefit the corp and its investors. this isnt a short termed bond. i didnt know that about the pos, also, atm its overkill, and with the right standings it could be moved and made smaller ie. cut down on the armory... its posible, i am more than willing to discuss this in further detail. imo the poss is only 20% security. the bpo's are around 8% security. the bonds are worth 55% of the investment. the problem with the bond is that one atleast isnt mature for another 4 mth, there is a 10 billion bond that will mature on the 9th of may... (thats the day after the phase 3 closes) (that could be moved one day wouldnt be a problem!) (but then again, i kinda accounted for this already, and was planing reinvest this into another project here in the MD) edit: tired and typing to fast, im really sorry for mistreating your language... Quote:* The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:31:00 - [63] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Ji Sama i have a problem though, (it doesnt have to be a problem) if i use the pos and the bpo's + the returned investments as security. i would effectively neuter my R&D plan imo.. And since that has an estimated 10-15% of the invesment this ipo brings in, this could in theory be removed, but this changes to much of the overall plan imo. nothing i couldnt handle, but i still think that the whole IPO should be reviewed then.. i dont know, im just not comfortable with making huge changes in the BP after the offer has started, and investments has been reserved. dunno, im in two minds here... (im thinking out loud here, i have no current plan to divert from the BP, but i am more than open to suggestions on how to increase security without limiting my potential profit.) The ways around issues are pretty easy depending on what you intended goal is. I know you don't want to let the cat out of the bag on some things, so if you'd like feel free to get in touch with myself of Bad Bobby, or any one of the many trusted folks around here. Either of us can be trusted to go over details and help you discuss your plan and how it might fit into any securitized options. This way you might be able to make up your mind one way or the other if you're (and your corpmates too ) comfortable with that. i am taking you up on that offer, thanks... i will contact you ingame, need some dinner first though :p will catch you asap. i trust you and bobby, so there is no issues there for me to reveal "sensitive" data. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:32:00 - [64] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 28/04/2009 18:16:19 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria The POS is number 1 on the security list. It would be pretty trivial to move this to a holdings corporation and have TMP join in an alliance so that access could still be had and operations continue. There is the obvious small details of tearing down/putting up/refuel but its pretty small. The prints would be the next best option, but then you get into issues of how to secure them and still maintain some type of corporation since to build off them, the build alt would have to be in the holding corporation unless things were run off a copy system. Copies could work depending on your consumption amounts. I know there are a number of people here that could do the former, and quite a bit that could assist with the latter. i just wanna be clear that we are talking a very big pos here... its not something you just take down... since we are only starting to move into the bpo / construction business, alot of this could be secured... imo... i would be thankful for any pointers as who could help with this. though i must say atm. taking the pos down seems out of the question.. it would take some 24 hours i think to offline and unanchor it all! EDIT: ok 24 hours is a bit over the top, but it has alot of anchored offline weapon systems etc... hardeners! etc. Believe me, I have put up and taken down more POSes than you can possibly imagine. I understand what is involved in that, both with and without heavy firepower assistance. ye its just saddens me to see my fine pos be taken down, even though it havent happened yet. i put alot of work into that setup :p Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:40:00 - [65] Im getting ready to go program our wireless net here, so I'll be unavailable till tonight some time. But feel free and I'll get back with you to with my personal addy.
GuildNavigator Amarr	Posted - 2009.04.28 20:37:00 - [66] seems a decent investment opportunity, a well spread out base... I'm in!
Claire Marqetts	Posted - 2009.04.28 21:13:00 - [67] Ji, Good luck with your IPO. I look forward to the "B Group" shares becoming available.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.04.28 21:17:00 - [68] 1. Start small 2. I agree with the comments about using your POS and blueprints and covert it into liquid asset. You can always join a research alliance if you need to use a lab for your R&D plan. It's actually cheaper that way and easier to manage. 3. Your behavior in regards to RC's scam kind of put you in a grey area, seems kind of odd that someone would pay back the victims and stick his neck out for a scammer. 4. If A and B shares are paying out the same then why not make it one share? It'll be easier to manage that way. 5. Because you have 33 members in your corp, I feel that there is a need for a auditor to come in and verify that the titles and role management has been setup correctly to ensure that corp thief can occur. You talk about branching out to different area including mining, production, research and development, etc etc. It's pretty easy to miss something for a corp of your size. 6. I'm going to wait until an audit is completed before dipping my toe any further. Blueprint Store
Pixie Rollins	Posted - 2009.04.29 04:48:00 - [69] TLDR - your numbers don't make sense. show us how you calculated a 33% return on investment and explain your break even analysis. Here lies a conundrum, your break even analysis (if thatÆs what you call it) is not based on conventional business metrics, which casts a doubt on the calculation of your return on investment. With a 100-1000% profit margins, a 33% ROI is underwhelming. LONG VERSION: I am fairly certain, based on personal intuition, that you are not a scammer. However, your IPO seems way way too risky, due to faulty risk analysis: Originally by: Ji Sama Risks The largest risk of failure involves fraud or scam. And since the largest liquid and solid asset worth is placed under the control of Ji Sama and her alts. The biggest loss would be if I scammed. To help relieve doubt any investor would have about this. I am disclosing full RL identity and Internet History. Here is your first error. Assuming that you are not a scammer, the largest risk is business risk û i.e that your profit will not support the required dividend, and capital loss on the value of the shares. I will try to address some of the glaring business risks that i see in your IPO: Vacuous business plan: Originally by: Ji Sama .a Our marketing plan is based on more than 1 year of market research and analysis. We buy low, sell high. Stockpile on assets that doesnÆt loose value and in addition if possible have a chance to increase in value. (We do multi-region trading, thatÆs a lot of work, and sometimes its dangerous, but giving margins in the 100-1000%+ range) What exactly our niches are and what exactly we trade in cant be disclosed. But in general terms, we trade in ore, minerals, salvage, alloys, ice, gas, ships and modules. Of the total invested capital we plan to use the majority of the capital in this sector. (The majority being more than 50% i.e. 12B+) I understand your reluctance to disclose your trading strategy, but you are effectively asking for a carte-blanch to speculate in the market with investorÆs ISK. Here are some questions you have to answer, if not to investors than to yourself: 1. You said return on investment will be 33%. How did you get this number? With 100-1000%+ margins I'd expect ROI to be much higher. Do you have a record of a 1 year market research and analysis? If you do, than kindly divulge your ROA, ROI, turn-over rate. A screen shot of a spreadsheet will go a long way here. 2. Why do you require an additional 25 billion in capital? Does it make business sense? with a 100-1000%+ profit margin you should be able to raise that capital through organic growth without the hustle of an IPO. Is it impatience, greed, or something else? 3. What kind of volumes do you allocate for each asset class (modules, minerals, ore, ect)? This should help us form some kind of indication regarding your expected profit margin, turn-over rate, ROI and ROA. For example, if you are heavily invested in minerals then a 100-1000%+ profit margin sounds exaggerated. 4.Your 8 billion in sell orders looks a tad suspicious. It must be supported with further information such as turnover rate and average holding period. For example, you can inflate your value by taking an item and marking it up 10 times above the average market price. But if your turn over rate is low, you would only lose money. Ji-Sama, because i like you, IÆll be gentle. We have no way to tell whether a 7% dividend is a fair compensation for the market risk of this IPO. All we can decide is whether we want to invest in the person, based on your history on the MD forums, which is cheery but uninsightful. If you want to improve your IPO, you should at least show a record of your 1 year market research and analysis. If you feel that it will compromise your trading strategy, donÆt to reveal it fully û ratio analysis and a screenshot of a (partially blackened) spreadsheet will do the trick.
Pixie Rollins	Posted - 2009.04.29 04:59:00 - [70] Do you understand the disadvantages of an IPO? Very simply, an IPO subjects you to the scrutiny and judgement of *******s like me. I donÆt really expect every trader to perform a ratio analysis, use spreadsheets and keep a log of their transactions. But coming out with a large IPO puts you in a different category. Understand that what you are selling here is your ability as a trader and a business; The only way to prove these abilities is by showing hard numbers. If the burden of proof and scrutiny lies too heavily on your shoulders, don't proceed with the IPO.

Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.29 05:46:00 - [71] Originally by: Pixie Rollins show us how you calculated a 33% return on investment Reading error, Pixie: Originally by: Ji Sama Return on investment will be 33% of the profit estimated at a 7% return per month i.e. 35.000 ISK per share per month. It's not a 33% ROI, its an estimated 7% ROI that is generated by taking 33% of whatever profit he does make. In short, he shares out a third of all profits to shareholders as dividends.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.29 06:36:00 - [72] Edited by: Bad Bobby on 29/04/2009 06:40:37 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria The ways around issues are pretty easy depending on what you intended goal is. I know you don't want to let the cat out of the bag on some things, so if you'd like feel free to get in touch with myself of Bad Bobby, or any one of the many trusted folks around here. Either of us can be trusted to go over details and help you discuss your plan and how it might fit into any securitized options. This way you might be able to make up your mind one way or the other if you're (and your corpmates too ) comfortable with that. Confirming this. I see potential in the relationship that could be formed between [Ugly.] and [T-M P] in this endeavour. From an investors perspective we can fill the role of security and use our established reputation to provide a leg up for your untested one. But I also see potential for us to actually add value to your business as well. On the subject of the POS & BPOs, I see some alternatives: 1. Take down your POS, hand it over to me, I put it back up under one of my R&D corps. Lock down your BPOs in one of my R&D corps with access to your POS plus all of mine. The result is you have a nice chunk of security (7b by your estimates), you have lost nothing and you have gained a whole lot of extra R&D capabilities that come with having access to my corps. There is also potential for your POS to see higher utilisation under my control than it would see under yours, which could make more isk for both of us if you want to go that way. 2. Sell off your POS and buy some more of your own shares with the proceeds. Arrange to lock down your BPOs in one of my R&D corps with access to full POS facilities. You retain control of more of your corp, you stand to profit more from your venture and you still get all the POS facilities you could ever need without the headache of maintaining any of it. The security level of this option is poor, but as a result you would be asking for less money. I do understand that this option probably doesn't fit in with your vision of running an IPO, so it's not going to be a favourite for you, but I have to put the option forward so that you can compare it to the alternatives. 3. Take down your POS, use it's value as security but don't put it back up again. Arrange to lock down your BPOs in one of my R&D corps with access to full POS facilities. A very simple option. More security than option 2, but it makes less sense unless you are just after raising more public money for the sake of it. It also has less potential for making us both additional income than option 1. I'm also open to other ideas and discussion on this, I'm sure we can come up with something that works for you, me and all investors. Option 1 is my favourite, because it makes the most business sense. But all three options involve me performing a service for you while saving you time, work and money. All three have a revenue stream for me, so I do ok out of it too, this is important in any business relationship. But option 1, I feel, will make us both more isk than your original plan and any of the other alternatives I have suggested here. Give it all some thought and see what your potential investors think. Don't rush into a decision on this and also remember that I am not the only person that can provide this service. If you trust me and think I'll do a better job than the others, then fine, but don't take that decision lightly. [EDIT] I don't use a spellchecker and it often shows
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.29 07:20:00 - [73] One more point that I overlooked, although MD regulars know me and many of you have done business with me in the past, the newer players may not be so familiar with my activities. So in order to help them see why I might be considered trustworthy: Small Gods Bond is the capital ship secured bond that Kazzac mentioned earlier in this thread, all concluded without a hitch. I can't take any credit for the idea but I stepped up to be the trusted party in this and discharged my responsibilities to the satisfaction of all involved. Ugly Toys IPO is my ongoing IPO which revolves around providing R&D/POS services. It's been going for quite a while now and has expanded from it's original 3 billion isk to just short of 10 billion. Investor confidence in me is high as you can gather if you take the time to read it all, but there is a lot of stuff in there and a lot of links to other threads with even more about it all. Also, I've been an investor in a great many IPOs and Bonds over the years, I'd like to think I qualify as a trusted MD regular and that my contribution to the criticism of various MD threads is taken as proof of my intelligence, insight and integrity. On the flip side, I have never hidden the fact that at least one of my mains is a pirate of the very -ve sec status variety. I'm a PvPer first and foremost. I kill people and I take their stuff. However, every pirate needs a logistics operation to replace all the shiny stuff he loses due to excessive rum consumption, so that's where Bad Bobby comes into the picture. Over the years Bobby has gone from a griefing alt that followed ore-farmers about in hi-sec stealing their ore repeatedly until they get fed up and attacked me, to a logistics operator that supplied me and my corp mates in low-sec and 0.0, to the head of an industrial corp in it's own right that makes all the isk we need to fund our mostly fail PvP activities. Also, I'm not offering any prizes for people who figure out who some of my mains are. It's not particularly hard. Several of the MD regulars have flown with my mains or have been on the receiving end of my piracy. I think that's the sales pitch over, you can go back to your regularly scheduled viewing now.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.29 07:32:00 - [74] Originally by: Brock Nelson 1. Start small 2. I agree with the comments about using your POS and blueprints and covert it into liquid asset. You can always join a research alliance if you need to use a lab for your R&D plan. It's actually cheaper that way and easier to manage. 3. Your behavior in regards to RC's scam kind of put you in a grey area, seems kind of odd that someone would pay back the victims and stick his neck out for a scammer. 4. If A and B shares are paying out the same then why not make it one share? It'll be easier to manage that way. 5. Because you have 33 members in your corp, I feel that there is a need for a auditor to come in and verify that the titles and role management has been setup correctly to ensure that corp thief can occur. You talk about branching out to different area including mining, production, research and development, etc etc. It's pretty easy to miss something for a corp of your size. 6. I'm going to wait until an audit is completed before dipping my toe any further. 1+2: I did start small, but this should be of a size where i can justifying this being an IPO To small and i could just aswell get a bond. I dont mind scrapping the R&D of this IPO, if the investors will feel more secure about that. that could take the whole IPO down 2B and take it further down by collateralizing the POS and BPO's with around 7B for 9B max... 3: Ye i can see that, though i have had all the affected investors thank me personally in game, the reason i did it might not be visible. I did it because it was the right thing to do, and because i knew that RC wasnt a scammer. His MD rep is ruined for his entire career in EVE, but that doesnt make it right to keep the 600M he scammed. So i convinced him ( he didnt need much though) to pay back the investors. (And since your so smart (tounge in cheek here) yes you could in theory say it was me that paid, my denying that would be a lie.) 4: They are exactly the same. ASTOCK where just sold before BSTOCK to privateinvestors/friends/corpmates and the scc-lounge. The reason for this should be obvious, i only regret not making the 19000 ASTOCK that i planned on from the start... 5: I have offered the auditor access to my corp via. an alt. but roles are set up right, and becides Kross, people only get roles on a need basis. And with that being said, the people in the corp with access to over 1 billion i trust, otherwise they wouldnt have these roles.. A corp theif would only have access to the warehouse, which hold a limited ammount of ore/mins/ammo/drones/misc items etc. totalling not over 2-3B at the max at any given time.. This is a risk im prepared to take.. We cant lock everything down, and its just crazy that a director should authorize anyone that wants a extra drone or some more small hybrid ammo.. because of the sheer sizes of the piles they are worth allot.. but i have yet to hear of the infamous ammo corp thief :D anyways, your point is fair. and you bring 1 additional case for the auditor to check. thanks for that. (though it have been the plan¦from mide side all along) 6: rgr that, thanks for contributing. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.29 08:00:00 - [75] Hey Pixie: I am sorry that you think my numbers donÆt make sense. I am not an accountant, and since I have done all the numbers myself, it is very possible that I have made an error in my estimation, hence the estimate. I donÆt expect this estimate to be any higher or lower than 20%. That is also the reason I placed the total value of the IPO a good count below the NAV. Also since our goods move as they do, its very hard to give a precise number on how much exactly is in the corp possession at any given time.. I therefore did some estimates based on the Revenue and Holdings etc. They are not 100% accurate numbers.. First as Bobby pointed out, I never said I made a 33% ROI, I said that from the profit which is X ROI I will pay out 33% of that as dividend each month, for an estimated shareholder ROI of 7%. I donÆt assume I am not a scammer, I KNOW that I am not a scammer. But that is not the issue here; the issue is that YOU donÆt know. But it would just be the lamest scam in history, because I have funnelled out more into the secondary market and its members over the last 3 months than I am asking for in this IPO. So if I was a scammer I would be a really bad scammer coming out of this with more than 5 billion in the red. I will not disclose any data about what I trade, the specific margins that I trade with, or for that matter where I trade. I have already given out more than enough even telling the MD who my market alts are.. I require the extra capital for the reasons I give in the overall BP. I have recently found myself in a position where I would have to liquidate assets at a price that was to low (for me) and instead of continuing down that path, and doing the extra 2-3 billion bonds I decided with the corp. and my advisors that the time for expansion had come. But I will give you some general data: My margins are as low as 5% and as high as 1000% My daily move is as low a 0.2 and as high as 10.000.000 depending on the good My overall ROA is 50% (this is a estimate, but I can see that my NAV has gone up with over the last 6 month with around 50% per month) My over ROI I would say is around 20-25% I have set this a little lower than it actually is, because I donÆt want to give the investors the wrong impression. Since this isnÆt done because you want a fast ROI on your portfolio, this is done because you believe in the corp. But since some of it doesnÆt move at all i.e. its no up for sale, and others move perhaps once every odd day, while others moves 1000Æs per day. ItÆs a bit tricky for me to give you hard numbers. If an accountant could be hired for this job I would be more than happy to provide them with the API. (ofc. Under the agreement that nothing specific is disclosed) I might have mixed up a few things hereà I will standby to clarify! My 8 billion in sell orders isnÆt suspicious. While I hate to admit it, I do have a couple of items (around 2-3 I think that is up at an inflated priceà there is a reason for this! Controlling the market makes this a profitable business, if you are the only one in the system selling badgers, some git will come along an buy one of you for 800M instead of 800K) This isnÆt scamming just to make it clear, and I admit I have 2-3 of these orders atm. (Its just expensive to take them down when you arenÆt manipulating the market) But I also assure you that atm. Not more than 400M in sell orders is up at inflated priceà I have a lot of orders up and not everything roll over daily, some even only roll over weekly, but because my margins are so big on these items, it makes it worth it. I donÆt know where you get the idea from that I have no idea of what an IPO is, and what I take! I have after all been reading in here. Thanks for adding to this threadà. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.29 08:14:00 - [76] Originally by: Bad Bobby Edited by: Bad Bobby on 29/04/2009 06:40:37 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria The ways around issues are pretty easy depending on what you intended goal is. I know you don't want to let the cat out of the bag on some things, so if you'd like feel free to get in touch with myself of Bad Bobby, or any one of the many trusted folks around here. Either of us can be trusted to go over details and help you discuss your plan and how it might fit into any securitized options. This way you might be able to make up your mind one way or the other if you're (and your corpmates too ) comfortable with that. Confirming this. I see potential in the relationship that could be formed between [Ugly.] and [T-M P] in this endeavour. From an investors perspective we can fill the role of security and use our established reputation to provide a leg up for your untested one. But I also see potential for us to actually add value to your business as well. On the subject of the POS & BPOs, I see some alternatives: 1. Take down your POS, hand it over to me, I put it back up under one of my R&D corps. Lock down your BPOs in one of my R&D corps with access to your POS plus all of mine. The result is you have a nice chunk of security (7b by your estimates), you have lost nothing and you have gained a whole lot of extra R&D capabilities that come with having access to my corps. There is also potential for your POS to see higher utilisation under my control than it would see under yours, which could make more isk for both of us if you want to go that way. 2. Sell off your POS and buy some more of your own shares with the proceeds. Arrange to lock down your BPOs in one of my R&D corps with access to full POS facilities. You retain control of more of your corp, you stand to profit more from your venture and you still get all the POS facilities you could ever need without the headache of maintaining any of it. The security level of this option is poor, but as a result you would be asking for less money. I do understand that this option probably doesn't fit in with your vision of running an IPO, so it's not going to be a favourite for you, but I have to put the option forward so that you can compare it to the alternatives. 3. Take down your POS, use it's value as security but don't put it back up again. Arrange to lock down your BPOs in one of my R&D corps with access to full POS facilities. A very simple option. More security than option 2, but it makes less sense unless you are just after raising more public money for the sake of it. It also has less potential for making us both additional income than option 1. I'm also open to other ideas and discussion on this, I'm sure we can come up with something that works for you, me and all investors. Option 1 is my favourite, because it makes the most business sense. But all three options involve me performing a service for you while saving you time, work and money. All three have a revenue stream for me, so I do ok out of it too, this is important in any business relationship. But option 1, I feel, will make us both more isk than your original plan and any of the other alternatives I have suggested here. Give it all some thought and see what your potential investors think. Don't rush into a decision on this and also remember that I am not the only person that can provide this service. If you trust me and think I'll do a better job than the others, then fine, but don't take that decision lightly. [EDIT] I don't use a spellchecker and it often shows thanks for that input, ill think about it, option 1 is the only viable option imo... 2+3 doesnt fit what this corp is about, and i have actually been saving up for that pos, because i wanted to use it. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.29 08:35:00 - [77] Originally by: Ji Sama thanks for that input, ill think about it, option 1 is the only viable option imo... 2+3 doesnt fit what this corp is about, and i have actually been saving up for that pos, because i wanted to use it. That is exactly what I expected. You can be certain that if we go ahead with that option you will have full use of your POS, have less work to do keeping it running and will get plenty of added benefits including more income and a MUCH larger capacity for research than your current tower could offer. This kind of service is the foundation of my business, so I know all the details of what works and what doesn't. If you have any questions, concerns or points you wish to discuss I'm quite happy to handle them either publicly in this thread of privately in eve-mails, convos of on voice comms. Also, I don't mind laying out the details of the plan with you even if you are not committed to using me for the service, just having this kind of deal publicly visible is a great advert for my services so I can't really lose out. Obviously, I can't offer any personal investment into your venture until after we've concluded this discussion as well as the audit, I don't want to create a conflict of interest. So I'm not even going to consider investment until that's all finalised, just don't let it all sell out before I get to put my isk in!
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.29 09:36:00 - [78] Bobby i want to thank you for your offer, and i will have to respectively accept on behalf of TMP Industries. I will contact you ingame for the details. I would rather we all waited untill after the audit with signing and underwriting of any deal :D Once again thank you for this offer :D Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.29 10:29:00 - [79] Originally by: Ji Sama Bobby i want to thank you for your offer, and i will have to respectively accept on behalf of TMP Industries. I will contact you ingame for the details. I would rather we all waited untill after the audit with signing and underwriting of any deal :D Once again thank you for this offer :D Sounds good to me. I'll be online after DT today, if only briefly, and then I'll be online plenty tonight. This deal would account for around 7b of collateral, based on the figures I've seen so far and that will have to be confirmed later. Do we want to discuss further collateral using other assets or investments?
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.29 10:39:00 - [80] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Ji Sama Bobby i want to thank you for your offer, and i will have to respectively accept on behalf of TMP Industries. I will contact you ingame for the details. I would rather we all waited untill after the audit with signing and underwriting of any deal :D Once again thank you for this offer :D Sounds good to me. I'll be online after DT today, if only briefly, and then I'll be online plenty tonight. This deal would account for around 7b of collateral, based on the figures I've seen so far and that will have to be confirmed later. Do we want to discuss further collateral using other assets or investments? well no harm in discussing it.. but its the only viable security i can offer without decreasing my ROI.. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com

Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.29 10:55:00 - [81] Well, if any of these investments involve respectable shares in IPOs/Bonds that have a reasonably low risk factor then they can be handed over to a respectable financial entity to hold in trust. When you repay your investors, you get it all back. Obviously over time the trust level your investors have with you will increase and it's likely that there will be little resistance to you breaking isk out of that trust in future if you need it for further ventures/investments. If any of those investments mature during the trust period you could even have the trust buy in to new investments with the proceeds while keeping them inside the trust. In the meantime, all the dividends/interest/returns from these investments can be relayed to you by the trust holder. As I've already said, it just comes down to the nature of the investments and having someone who is willing to oversee the trust, which will involve a trusted person but not a great deal of work on their part. I'd say that DBANK, EBANK or some other trusted third party could easily deal with this for you. If you are stuck for someone, I could even do it, but I'm not sure it's appropriate for me to be holding all the collateral for this venture. The R&D part obviously works well in my hands, but I don't bring any value to holding your investments that would make me better than any of the more lofty financial entities.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.29 11:10:00 - [82] atleast 3 billion of the bonds could be handed over to a trustfund.. it would be no problem, the big bond i have that matures next saturday, is kinda dubvious and wouldnt feel comfortable exposing that, and i am 100% sure that the investor would not want his bond in other hands... i would have no problem doing something like this. the way i see it... I hand over all POS & BPO assets to Ugly Toys. They might aswell just handle the other 3 Billion, as they can be handed over immediately, and one them is even maturing during phase 3... so thats actually perfect... (all these are in bond form, i have no "proof" of their existance other than my own and the bond holders word. Though I am sure that the bond not maturing during phase 3 wont cause any trust issues. just so we are clear, the return i am getting arent being used as security, that will still go to me. And the liquids would have to be reinvested into the secondary market so they dont stagnate. TBH one thing i am sure about is that i can trust you with my assets. Im not the one with trust issues here :D I just dont want to pay a price for your (ie. the investors) trust that would cause me to loose profit. And that is actually what we have achieved here imo. So thank you for that. tldr: Sure thing bobby, you can hold all of the collateral! Bonds would have to be reinvested though. at a minimum 7% return... dont know how we do that... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.29 11:35:00 - [83] Originally by: Ji Sama atleast 3 billion of the bonds could be handed over to a trustfund.. Ok, that brings us up to around 10b of collateral, although not all of it is 'solid' in that your investments could still fail and undermine the collateral value at a later date. Originally by: Ji Sama I hand over all POS & BPO assets to Ugly Toys. They might aswell just handle the other 3 Billion, as they can be handed over immediately, Ok, if we're only taking about 3 billion then I see no issue handling it. I just didn't feel comfortable with people entrusting me with a huge amount of collateral when my reputation, while good, does not justify it. Originally by: Ji Sama just so we are clear, the return i am getting arent being used as security, that will still go to me. And the liquids would have to be reinvested into the secondary market so they dont stagnate. Exactly. I think I said that in my post. You get back all proceeds. Originally by: Ji Sama TBH one thing i am sure about is that i can trust you with my assets. Im not the one with trust issues here :D Steady on, remember what happened last time you trusted someone? Obviously I'm not RC, but still, your trust of any individual that you meet on the internet should have it's limits. Originally by: Ji Sama I just dont want to pay a price for your (ie. the investors) trust that would cause me to loose profit. And that is actually what we have achieved here imo. So thank you for that. Not a problem at all. Handling your investments would involve no real work, just the odd isk transfer. Handling your research division fits nicely into my own business and will make money for both of us. As we can see here Win:Win situations are possible. Originally by: Ji Sama Bonds would have to be reinvested though. at a minimum 7% return... dont know how we do that... You make the investments in the MD marketplace as normal and instruct me to send isk from the trust. However, I will have to approve those investments on behalf of the trust to ensure you're not just asking me to send isk to one of your alts. I expect plenty of oversight from other investors in this IPO too, so I won't be left to throw your money about without any controls! It should be business as usual for you, just with a little extra communication cost making sure that everyone is happy that the collateral is sufficiently secure. Obviously, I'll need to have details of these bonds. If they were arranged through MD then I see no issue with you linking the threads here for us all to see. If they were arranged outside MD then I think this should fall inside Shar's audit and he should satisfy himself that these investments are vaguely sound and give his impression on how much faith potential investors should place in their 3 billion isk valuation as collateral. Anyway, I think we've come a long way to improving the security of this venture and without causing any harm to the core concept of what you are trying to do.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.29 11:43:00 - [84] Idd i know some thought of cap would be put on the trusted isk.. since nothing would stop me from investing them into my own scam etc. I trust you because i have read your post in here over the last year. Even though you dont want to admit it, your character or persona shines through. You arent in this so you can scam me out of 10B.. I know this the same way i know that i arent in this to scam MD out of 24B I still trust RC on a personal level, that does not mean that i will risk any of TMP Industries assets with him. (Since they are no longer my own) Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.29 12:16:00 - [85] Originally by: Ji Sama atleast 3 billion of the bonds could be handed over to a trustfund.. it would be no problem, the big bond i have that matures next saturday, is kinda dubvious and wouldnt feel comfortable exposing that, and i am 100% sure that the investor would not want his bond in other hands... Depending on what the investments were and what they entailed I could take the entire 10b and roll it into my current operations. Most likely if its liquid isk, it would just be rolled over into my current trading operations while any asset style items would be held locked down in my research corporation. I'd even be willing to offer a small return on it.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.29 12:25:00 - [86] Originally by: Ji Sama You arent in this so you can scam me out of 10B.. Damn right! If anyone was to claim that I would consider scamming for anything less than 10 times my personal assets, I would feel rather insulted. I don't think I've given anyone cause to think I would be that stupid. 10B is hardly enough to justify me raising an eyebrow! But to me, it's not a matter of trust but pure economics. I can get 10B from MD just by making a forum post, I dare say I could raise 50B from MD with a decent business plan without great difficulty, with a reputation worth that much and growing fast I would be insane to destroy it. What I understand and petty scammers do not, is that trust is an asset of extreme value that opens doors and brings in profits they would never have thought possible. Of course, if I come out tommorrow with a 500B scheme to build Titans you would all be welcome to shout scam in large font, bold, italic, underlined and bracketed with plenty of smack. My reputation is not there... yet. I'll leave the Titan games to Ricdic
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.29 12:27:00 - [87] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Ji Sama atleast 3 billion of the bonds could be handed over to a trustfund.. it would be no problem, the big bond i have that matures next saturday, is kinda dubvious and wouldnt feel comfortable exposing that, and i am 100% sure that the investor would not want his bond in other hands... Depending on what the investments were and what they entailed I could take the entire 10b and roll it into my current operations. Most likely if its liquid isk, it would just be rolled over into my current trading operations while any asset style items would be held locked down in my research corporation. I'd even be willing to offer a small return on it. Consider this carefully. Don't worry about hurting my feelings if you go with Kazzac, or anyone else, on this. It's all business and I think he can add more to this side of the venture than I can.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.29 12:36:00 - [88] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Ji Sama atleast 3 billion of the bonds could be handed over to a trustfund.. it would be no problem, the big bond i have that matures next saturday, is kinda dubvious and wouldnt feel comfortable exposing that, and i am 100% sure that the investor would not want his bond in other hands... Depending on what the investments were and what they entailed I could take the entire 10b and roll it into my current operations. Most likely if its liquid isk, it would just be rolled over into my current trading operations while any asset style items would be held locked down in my research corporation. I'd even be willing to offer a small return on it. Consider this carefully. Don't worry about hurting my feelings if you go with Kazzac, or anyone else, on this. It's all business and I think he can add more to this side of the venture than I can. i have considered this, and while i would have no problem with kazzac handling this, you already have a business i can use... and as such im actually gaining more when i give you my pos, than i would keeping it. (ie. i dont have control but i have access, and it is the access i need, not the control) but still, as of now i have not decided what to do about the bonds. I think ill create a trust fund for this exact purpose... I might go with kazzac or bobby or even scc here... and to be honest, this isnt in a hurry aslong as the cummunity are willing to help out here.. we can choose who exactly will secure the assets/bonds over the weekend :D also @ kazzac we are talking about the large bond i have that matures on the 8th? if thats the case; i see no problem rolling this over into your business for a return that could be justified to my investors... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.29 12:44:00 - [89] Originally by: Ji Sama also @ kazzac we are talking about the large bond i have that matures on the 8th? if thats the case; i see no problem rolling this over into your business for a return that could be justified to my investors... This was what I meant by consider going with Kazzac because he can offer you more than I can. My business doesn't need 10B dropped into it, I spend too much time pew-pewing to make use of more isk than I already have, but Kazzac can put that money to work. This is particularly appealing from an investor's point of view as this brings the level of security up to around 20B which would be a very attractive feature. On the POS/BPO front, yes, I'm in that business already and am probably better positioned than most people to deliver what you need. Splitting the collateral between Kazzac and myself also spreads the risk for you, no matter how little you believe that risk to be.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.29 12:51:00 - [90] Originally by: Ji Sama also @ kazzac we are talking about the large bond i have that matures on the 8th? if thats the case; i see no problem rolling this over into your business for a return that could be justified to my investors... The options are pretty limitless here. You could even just wait until maturity on the 8th, cash it out and then launch at a reduced amount. Or launch now, once it cashes out I'll run your buyback program to reduce your liability over time, etc... Sky is the limit. Evemail the details of what it is, consists of, etc.. and I can get back to you by end of day on what sorta return I could offer if any on it.

HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.04.29 16:03:00 - [91] Couple of things: 1 - 7 Accounts to Audit. Gonna take a bit longer than expected. 2 - Smooth one Bobby. Bring up all the vulnerabilities that push this IPO into providing you with a client and security holding. (Just so you know that you did not get that one past unnoticed.)
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.29 16:16:00 - [92] Edited by: Bad Bobby on 29/04/2009 16:19:57 Originally by: HawkBlade Smooth one Bobby. Bring up all the vulnerabilities that push this IPO into providing you with a client and security holding. (Just so you know that you did not get that one past unnoticed.) I'll take that as a compliment ... A man has to make a living one way or another doesn't he? I must confess I've been waiting all day for this post from you, I knew you would have something to say about my antics but I was actually expecting something a little more... well you know... harsh! In any case, I think you have to agree that some level of security is needed on something of this size. If it wasn't me, it would be someone else, I just got up earlier than the competition.
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.04.29 16:23:00 - [93] Originally by: Bad Bobby In any case, I think you have to agree that some level of security is needed on something of this size. If it wasn't me, it would be someone else, I just got up earlier than the competition. There's a time for self interest to be involved and then there's self promotional. I agree that some form of security and service would make this IPO more attractive but I see it as a conflict of interest the way your promoted vulnerabilities that dovetail with your own services. Understandable, yes. Commendable, no.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.29 16:42:00 - [94] I saw the vulnerability and I saw the oppertunity, I took it. Ji Sama will soon have my skills working alongside him so we'll soon see if this marginal conflict of interest turns into a unique selling point all of its own. But I'll rest my case on this, it's up to Ji and the investors.
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.04.29 16:45:00 - [95] Originally by: Bad Bobby I saw the vulnerability and I saw the oppertunity, I took it. Please don't mistake me. I'm not saying you were wrong. I'll leave this alone now though.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.29 16:47:00 - [96] I see this as a win-win situation, while i am not ignorant to the fact what bobby did here. I am not some puppet that just goes along with who ever crashed my IPO thread. With that being said, i agree 100% with shar's statement, it was a slick move, promoting yourself and at the same time securing a client. :D but i dont mind, i would have said so if it was a problem :D @shar it is no problem, i know its a large work load i have asked you to help me with, no matter the outcome i will make it worth your time, again thanks for doing this :D Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.04.29 17:57:00 - [97] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 29/04/2009 18:00:54 I've been doing business with Ji lately and suffice to say we are both satisfied how things turned out. Looking forward to further develop our business relations after you get the much needed capital. P.S. Hoping for another discount! Also, the three submarines you have requested are approaching completion. Black Sun Empire
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.29 18:29:00 - [98] Edited by: Ji Sama on 29/04/2009 18:30:05 Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 29/04/2009 18:23:36 I've been doing business with Ji lately and suffice to say we are both satisfied how things turned out. Looking forward to further develop our business relation after you get the much needed capital. You'll get investors whether you provide collateral or not, IMHO running your business via the corp wallet and accepting an alt of a trusted MD member as director in your corp to counter a sudden disappearance event will do. Of course you might learn something from working with Bad Bobby, the choice is yours. thanks for dropping by YGR :D confirming that YGR has bought over 6.5B worth of minerals... also confirming that we are both happy with this arrangement, due to limits on my behalf, i have had to set it on standby, while stockpiling! this is only temp. though, next batch will be done next week.. anyways... you are absolutely right, i could do this without security, for that matter i could do this without an audit. I could have sold all 49K shares on the first day, and i could have done this without going to the MD.. So why did i do this? Why did i decide to provide an audit and security (without limiting my profit ofc) I did it because i believe in the MD. I did it because i dont think it would be healthy for the secondary market if i just steamrolled this investment through. There are safety mechanism and procedures that i think is essential if the secondary market is to protect itself. Anyways. thanks for bringing up a nice point :D See you ingame :p Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Keyser Kahn Stellar-Parallax Corp	Posted - 2009.04.29 20:39:00 - [99] From reading through this IPO and based upon the responses above my post and discussion with the OP in SCC-Lounge I would like to make the following offer: I am happy to underwrite 3 billion of this venture for a period of 3 months. Money to be deposited with Dbank or Ebank in an interest bearing account that I do not have access to until 3 months from the commencement of the IPO (ofc I would want any interest generated for the period). I have not made enquiries to either institution at this moment but will do should MD in general feel that this would be beneficial to the launch of this IPO. This offer reflects my view of the OP and abilities and is also based on previous experience with Ji Sama. By my reckoning that would bring the secured level of the ipo that is currently un-allocated to 50% (albeit my 3 bill only for a period of 3 months). For an IPO in general this would be a level of security that I would be happy investing in. Regardless - good luck with this venture Ji
Indy Indy	Posted - 2009.04.29 20:43:00 - [100] I'm going to have to say that after reading all 4 pages, I can't see much risk left in this IPO. Ji has done more than a fair job of trying to figure out ways to secure this IPO and working towards resolving any concerns potential investors have. This to me shows a level of commitment that I think will be needed to make this IPO work. Make sure to let me know as soon as I can researve some bstock shares. Nice work Ji.

EVEHelpisSeriousBusiness	Posted - 2009.04.29 20:55:00 - [101] Originally by: Indy Indy I'm going to have to say that after reading all 4 pages, I can't see much risk left in this IPO. Ji has done more than a fair job of trying to figure out ways to secure this IPO and working towards resolving any concerns potential investors have. This to me shows a level of commitment that I think will be needed to make this IPO work. Make sure to let me know as soon as I can researve some bstock shares. Nice work Ji. There's still plenty of risk, but 50% secured is a reasonable mitigation.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:51:00 - [102] I would like to confirm I will underwrite this with 1.5B of current cash holdings. In addition I am confirming that should the need arise Merotech owned and governed by Ji Sama holds a claim in my current assets of 2.5B as seen in earlier notary post. In conclusion I am confirming that SCS is servicing this IPO's rather extensive needs, and will upon conclusion have a number part of the service price paid in BSHARES.(amount undetermined at present moment) PS: Wishing you clear skies ahead on your endeavours Ji Sama - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.30 08:45:00 - [103] Alright... Thanks to all for contributing to this thread, and thanks to those that showed support :D Its gonna go down like this.. Bobby will get control over our POS and all our BPO's (the ones that are worth anything anyways.) ie estimated 6B Keyser will underwrite for 3B Caleb will underwrite for 4B Thats 13B total in security... More than 55% of the total IPO To top that, i will insure the investors that the next big bond that matures will be fully invested into a 3rd party and be locked down for an interest over 7% That should bring the total securities up to 23B ie. 95% of the IPO.. I can do this without cutting to much into my profit. All securities run on a 3 mth basis. After the 3 mths, some of the securities are highly likely to be pulled, and reinvested into more profitable areas... Thank you all again, for helping me launch this IPO. Also a big thanks to all the investors. I have no doubt in my mind / pending shars audit ofc. that this IPO will be filled over the weekend. Take care all.. (in general, i am not availible this evening as i have some RL meetings etc.. Just so you dont think i am ignoring any questions etc.) Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.30 21:18:00 - [104] BSTOCK shares will be open for reservations in 3 hours. Remember do not send ISK to Ji Sama. All reservations are pending audit... Confirming that 49K shares have been transferred to SCS! Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Keyser Kahn Stellar-Parallax Corp	Posted - 2009.04.30 21:51:00 - [105] Just to confirm that I have transferred 3 billion to Dbank to be locked down to the end of July. Funds to be released to the investors should that become necessary.
Manalapan Dynasty Banking	Posted - 2009.04.30 22:01:00 - [106] Edited by: Manalapan on 30/04/2009 22:05:54 Edited by: Manalapan on 30/04/2009 22:02:13 I am confirming that Dynasty Banking is now holding 3,000,000,000.00 These funds are locked down for the next 3 months and will be released at continued success at that time or returned to investors at the failure of this IPO. EDIT: Better Explanation Dynasty Banking
GuildNavigator Amarr	Posted - 2009.04.30 23:17:00 - [107] reserving 450 B-shares for 225M (+ 50 A-shares for 25M) totals the sum at 250.000.000 isk (250M).
brutoid Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.30 23:23:00 - [108] I'd like to reserve 400 B-shares (for 200M) please.
Chris15 RennTech Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.30 23:30:00 - [109] I'd like to reserve 100 shares (50million ISK)
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.04.30 23:48:00 - [110] In to confirm I have recieved the 49.000 TMP shares. Awaiting Audit and recieving the complete ledger of shareholders. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread

Marcus Baltar	Posted - 2009.05.01 00:01:00 - [111] I would like to reserve 200 shares at 500,000 ISK each (100,000,000 ISK value), please. -- DesuSigs
Varo Jan Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.01 00:21:00 - [112] I'd like to reserve 200 B shares - 100M ISK, please.
B's Mogul	Posted - 2009.05.01 00:31:00 - [113] I would like to reserve 1,000 shares (500M ISK) please.
Miyuki Suzumiya	Posted - 2009.05.01 01:02:00 - [114] I would like to reserve 4,000 shares (2Bil ISK) please.
Companion Qube	Posted - 2009.05.01 01:05:00 - [115] Pending an audit I'd like to reserve 1B in shares.
Aakmer	Posted - 2009.05.01 01:10:00 - [116] Would like to reserve 100 shares (50M ISK).
RED 5N4kE	Posted - 2009.05.01 01:59:00 - [117] Would like to reserve 100 shares (50M ISK). thx
Victoria Akmea Gallente Sentient Biotechnology Invention	Posted - 2009.05.01 03:10:00 - [118] Victoria Akmea would like to reserve 100 shares. (50 Million Interstellar Kredits)
Indy Indy	Posted - 2009.05.01 03:16:00 - [119] Confirming my order for 300 shares (150mil value)
Selina Candor Chernobyl Trading Corporation	Posted - 2009.05.01 03:49:00 - [120] Like to reserve 300 BShares in addition to the 300 AShares reserved. Total being 300mil worth.

TastyTreat	Posted - 2009.05.01 04:10:00 - [121] I would like to reserve 1000 shares (500 mil isk worth) please.
Malakai Cross Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.01 04:18:00 - [122] After debate with my silent partners, I am authorized to reserve 100 shares (50 million). Fortune favours the cunning, not the bold.
Cassperz	Posted - 2009.05.01 04:23:00 - [123] id like to reserve 1000 shares (500m)
Katsou Makoto	Posted - 2009.05.01 05:25:00 - [124] I will take 500 shares (250) mil
Gabriel Virtus hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.01 05:42:00 - [125] Reserving 500 shares - 250m. Thanks
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.01 06:42:00 - [126] Confirming reservations... Will update public ASTOCK Ledger now. 9000 ASTOCK Reserved: SOLD OUT 28750 BSTOCK Reserved: 11250 Left Do NOT send isk to Ji Sama. All reservations are pending audit. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Azrel Kyoha Shinto	Posted - 2009.05.01 07:22:00 - [127] Reservation for 2000 shares (1Bil)
Mr Grimness	Posted - 2009.05.01 07:52:00 - [128] reserving 2000 shares (1bil)
Cinta Verick Amarr 4th Dimension Investments	Posted - 2009.05.01 08:24:00 - [129] Reserve 200 shares (100m)
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.01 09:04:00 - [130] Oh well, I'll have to get in now before they all go... Reserving 6000 shares (3 billion)

Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.01 09:22:00 - [131] Confirming Reservations. Confirming that i will be contacting Bobby now regarding prep for pos take down. Confirming that all ASTOCK and 38750 BSTOCK shares are reserved pending audit. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Seline Gylen	Posted - 2009.05.01 09:40:00 - [132] reserving 1000 shares (500mil)
Roger Kiyosaki	Posted - 2009.05.01 09:44:00 - [133] Reserving 400 shares (200m)
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.01 09:49:00 - [134] Edited by: Ji Sama on 01/05/2009 09:54:14 All shares are reserved, standing by for audit report. DO NOT SEND ISK TO JI SAMA EDIT: I am sorry Roger but there are no more stocks up for reservation. I am putting yours on the reserve reservation list. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Roger Kiyosaki	Posted - 2009.05.01 11:09:00 - [135] Originally by: Ji Sama EDIT: I am sorry Roger but there are no more stocks up for reservation. I am putting yours on the reserve reservation list. D'oh! Thanks for the info. I'll take the front of the waiting list then.
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.05.01 14:39:00 - [136] Not a drama bomb but I'm pulling out of doing this audit. 8 accounts to audit takes more than just a few days and I don't take to kindly to being pressured for faster turn around. Actually I think I got fired so screw it.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.01 14:44:00 - [137] Originally by: HawkBlade Not a drama bomb but I'm pulling out of doing this audit. 8 accounts to audit takes more than just a few days and I don't take to kindly to being pressured for faster turn around. Actually I think I got fired so screw it. ? Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.01 14:51:00 - [138] Originally by: HawkBlade Not a drama bomb but I'm pulling out of doing this audit. 8 accounts to audit takes more than just a few days and I don't take to kindly to being pressured for faster turn around. Actually I think I got fired so screw it. Shar if you want to split the load, I'd be happy to help I got some time this weekend
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.01 15:11:00 - [139] I am kinda at a loss atm. this was unforseen. I have a plea for the investors. Standby, let me see if this can be salvaged. If not reservations will be cancelled. This is my passive eve weekend. (have a weekend kid) So will only be very little online. Just want to say thanks to all those that helped, and all those that showed support. I am sorry if this ones turns out to be a time waster :( Wish all of you a nice weekend. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bonhomme Carnaval	Posted - 2009.05.01 15:16:00 - [140] What, you're saying Shar the troll is controlled by his emotions instead of controlling them?! How surprising! And what a great characteristic for an auditor... It goes well with his newfound unreliability! Disclaimer : My opinion is based on unverified information and represents the opinion of your entire corp and alliance.

Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.01 15:36:00 - [141] Originally by: Bonhomme Carnaval What, you're saying Shar the troll is controlled by his emotions instead of controlling them?! How surprising! And what a great characteristic for an auditor... It goes well with his newfound unreliability! Disclaimer : My opinion is based on unverified information and represents the opinion of your entire corp and alliance. A bit of patience might be in order, before throwing around these things. Sounds to me like RL is the culprit and the rather complex and big account number of Ji Sama. When the relevant parties have talked about these things with Ji to make the tasks a bit simpler I am sure it will be sorted out. I can offer to help w security and account confirmation on Ji Sama less active characters if needed. I can not do the important ones, since I could be accused as biased having JI Sama as a client in this endeavor. @ Kazzac and Shar; Let me know if I can be of assistence in clearing the audit workload. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.01 15:47:00 - [142] I request as OP we keep this thread clean, untill further notice please. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.02 02:17:00 - [143] Unofficial and preliminary findings of SCS temp psw access. I was granted access to all Ji Sama's 7 disclosed accounts. In All I have looked through a total of 18 characters out of the 21 slots possible. Characters I can confirm the list of characters mentioned in Ji Sama's earlier post. Of these none of them have any notable access or values of importance in this audit. All the relevant characters appears to be on Ji Samas main account. security It was clear that even the alts were not granted full access to TMP assets. Global wallet access was held by 6 characters, 4 from Ji Samas accounts and 2 from his RL friend mentioned as "hit by truck" backup. Going through the TMP current assets I found a few questions regarding hangar access, that I will have Ji comment on. The security access was not that tough considering the relative small corp of a total 32 members. (fits on one page in corp administration) Assets At the time of access there was liquid assets of about 5B and 3B in market sell and buy orders. A quick look also confirmed to me the approximated 2B in contracts. Since this was only an on location check, I can not confirm the total values of current items values. Nor can I confirm the assets under construction, nor the Investments. For these you have to wait for the pending actual audit. Ji Sama's Value Doing a quick search on character trade I found it relevant to mention that skillpoint value of the character would imo be an estimate of around 2-3B isk. SCS confirmed Assets Confirmed 12-14B Add to this the POS estimated at 5B (Bobby or the Audit can confirm this estimate) Keyser Kahn Underwriting with 3B, and myself personally for 4B. Thats totalling approx 24B Security evaluation conclusion Since Ji Sama has disclosed full access to all his 7 accounts, his personal RL information (which I can personally confirm for what that is worth), his tight and limited access control to his corp assets, I must conclude that his opened and disclosed more than can be demanded. Since Ji has involved himself rather heavy in secondary markets network, I would find it stupid for him to cut and run with the IPO cash, since his net value is on par with what he is trying to obtain in liquidity, and his reputation value added to that would make this compete with Armoured Cs scam. Tha ofc is my personal view. The future earnings could then be questioned. I could tell from transactions that at elast Ji knows how to make his living, his short time in game and high NAV would also go far to support this. Just on his current NAV he would be able to sacrifice the promised ROI for at least 10 months before hitting red numbers. I also took the time to try and see if any of the disclosed alts had posting history, I only found the 3 main characters mentioned had posting history. Childeric III Antiquarian Ji Sama Note: This is not an actual audit, its a preliminary security evaluation of Ji Sama and the IPO he is offering. Nothing is 100% sure in EVE, but considering the work already put in this I would find it highly unlikely its a big elaborate scam. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.02 08:25:00 - [144] Edited by: Ji Sama on 02/05/2009 08:32:59 Thank you Caleb for taking the time to do this. While some of the numbers im not in agreement with, the overall security check had me think. I have revoked some rights from some RL friends, that had full access to the hangar. Also revoked the director role rights of Scorpious Kross Alt. Also did a full overhaul of rights and roles in the corp, to make it more up to date. Also notifying that we have hired an accountant to work out our economic monthly reports. Standby for the Audit on my Main Account,(EDIT=) AND on Scorpious Kross. Please be patient. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Kapila Parthalan Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.02 22:05:00 - [145] I'd like to reserve 1000 shares (500M), if any become available.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.03 16:11:00 - [146] There have been a bit of trouble getting the external audit handled. Since the number of trusted auditors are limited to a total of less than 10. In order to get this deal partially concluded I am suggesting the following: As broker for TMP I will recieve the payments in full, that means I will hold the total raised liquidity, and will then distribute the stocks according to the list. As a security I will freeze 50% of the assets till the external audit is ready. Please make sure when you transfer to mark the transfer w TMP IPO somehow. For larger amounts I would like to suggest you consider in convo confirmation. I will have the channel TMP IPO open for this purpose. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.03 16:16:00 - [147] Confiming that ISK goes to Caleb.. Remember to write the reason for the ISK transfer as.. Payment for TMPI XXX shares @ XXX million isk Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Marcus Baltar	Posted - 2009.05.03 17:15:00 - [148] Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 01/05/2009 09:59:53 What margins do you get? I currently have margins as low as 5% and as high as 1000% I have a very diversified portfolio, i generally generate around a 20% total return Are you doing this IPO just to do an IPO? No, though i have always admitted that i wanted to do an IPO. The timing is right and the corp. is mature. Will you do an audit? Yes if the potential investors want an audit they will get an audit! INVESTOR LIST: A STOCK (SOLD OUT) Arsiiel: 1200 Caleb: 1000 Dess Epin: 1000 Gawain Edmond: 300 GuildNavigator: 50 Jadun: 4000 Janson Webb: 50 Kross, Scorpious: 1000 Lui Kai: 100 Selina candor: 300 B STOCK (SOLD OUT) Varo Jan: 200 LarcatofZion: 500 Keyser: 6000 Selina candor: 300 Brett Frost: 400 Komiches: 200 Miranda Zoar: 800 Aegam: 500 ***********: 2000 (NOT TO BE DISCLOSED) Indy Indy: 300 Teavan: 200 Gaiwan: 300 Alamalacha: 400 Maxwell: 1000 Caleb: 1500 Arsiiel: 400 GuildNavigator: 450 ReadSn4ke: 100 Brutoid: 400 Chris15: 100 Marcus Baltar: 200 BÆs Mogul: 1000 Miyuki Suzumiya: 4000 Companion Cube: 2000 Aakmer: 100 Victoria Akmea: 100 TastyTreat: 1000 Malakai Cross: 100 Cassperz: 1000 Katsuo Makoto: 500 Gabriel Virtus: 500 Azrel: 2000 Mr Grimness: 2000 Cinta Verick: 200 Bad Bobby: 6000 Jadun: 250 Seline Gylen: 1000 100,000,000 ISK sent 2009.05.03 17:09 to Caleb Ayrania ( [r]=Payment for 200 TMPI shares @ 500K each ) as requested. Originally by:** Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 03/05/2009 16:19:01 Confiming that ISK goes to Caleb.. Remember to write the reason for the ISK transfer as.. Payment for TMPI XXX shares @ XXX million isk EDIT: Since i can't get a hold on Bobby atm. I will transfer all POS parts to Caleb untill i can get a hold on Bobby! -- DesuSigs
Brett Frost Caldari Frost Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.03 18:12:00 - [149] 2009.05.03 18:07 Payment sent to Caleb Ayrania 400 shares @ 200m
TastyTreat	Posted - 2009.05.03 18:42:00 - [150] Payment sent to Caleb Ayrania for 1000 shares @ 500 mil isk.

GuildNavigator Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.03 18:48:00 - [151] Payment sent to Caleb 500 shares @ 250.000.000 (250M) Pleasure doing business :)
Sir Elliot	Posted - 2009.05.03 19:03:00 - [152] Will send payment after audit is completed.
Victoria Akmea Gallente Sentient Biotechnology Invention	Posted - 2009.05.03 20:15:00 - [153] Payment Sent to Caleb Ayrania, (50M Interstellar Kredits) for 100 shares. Please Confirm Receipt of Funds.
Indy Indy	Posted - 2009.05.03 20:45:00 - [154] Edited by: Indy Indy on 03/05/2009 20:45:27 150million Isk sent for 300 TMP Bstock shares sent to Caleb Ayrania
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.03 20:51:00 - [155] Confirming transfer and received payments. Total 4.675 B isk worth of shares distributed. Marcus Baltar 200 BSHARES Brett Frost 400 BSHARES TastyTreat 1000 BSHARES Guildnavigator 450 BSHARES 50 ASHARES Victoria Akmea 100 BSHARES "undisclosed" 2000 BSHARES and 4250 "undisclosed" ASHARES The undisclosed will be public when all is concluded and the "in street name" or public named is handled. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
brutoid Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.03 21:21:00 - [156] Payment Sent to Caleb Ayrania, (200M ISK) for 400 shares.
Marcus Baltar	Posted - 2009.05.03 21:45:00 - [157] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Edited by: Caleb Ayrania on 03/05/2009 20:59:13 Confirming transfer and received payments. Total 4.675 B isk worth of shares distributed. Marcus Baltar 200 BSHARES Brett Frost 400 BSHARES TastyTreat 1000 BSHARES Guildnavigator 450 BSHARES 50 ASHARES Victoria Akmea 100 BSHARES "undisclosed" 2000 BSHARES Indy Indy 300 BSHARES and 4250 "undisclosed" ASHARES The undisclosed will be public when all is concluded and the "in street name" or public named is handled. Confirming receipt of 200 Tash-Murkon Prime Industries "B" shares at a cost of 100,000,000 ISK (500,000 ISK per share); Tash-Murkon Prime Industries (In-game Info details) Ticker; T-M P CEO & Founder; Ji Sama Share number; 100,000 Member count; 34 Tax Rate; 0.0% Corporation Founded; 2008.11.02 -- DesuSigs
Azrel Kyoha Shinto	Posted - 2009.05.03 22:21:00 - [158] Payment for the 2000 shares @ 500k sent to Caleb
Miranda Zoar	Posted - 2009.05.04 00:12:00 - [159] 400 million for 800 shares transferred to Caleb.
Victoria Akmea Gallente Sentient Biotechnology Invention	Posted - 2009.05.04 00:23:00 - [160] Victoria Akmea Confirming Receipt of 100 Shares, Tash-Murkon Prime Industries.

RED 5N4kE	Posted - 2009.05.04 01:55:00 - [161] Payment Sent to Caleb Ayrania, (50M ISK) for 100 shares.
RED 5N4kE	Posted - 2009.05.04 02:36:00 - [162] confirming shares received
Gabriel Virtus hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.04 05:05:00 - [163] 250M sent to Caleb for 500 shares. -GV
Varo Jan Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.04 05:11:00 - [164] Payment for TMPI 200 shares @ 100 million ISK sent to Caleb Ayrania.
Aakmer	Posted - 2009.05.04 05:56:00 - [165] Payment sent to Caleb. Payment for TMPI 100 shares @ 50 million ISK.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.04 07:32:00 - [166] Payment for 6000 TMPI shares @ 3000m sent to Caleb. Shares received. Ji Sama has transferred the following to me as collateral: 10x Drug Lab = 675m 2x Equipment Assembly Array = 108m 10x Rapid Equipment Assembly Array = 90m 2x Small Ship Assembly Array = 180m 5x Mobile Laboratory = 450m 1x Large Ship Assembly Array = 81m 1x Advanced Small Ship Assembly Array = 90m 1x Advanced Medium Ship Assembly Array = 90m 1x Advanced Large Ship Assembly Array = 90m 10x Experimental Laboratory = 1000m 1x Apocalypse Blueprint (unresearched original) = 1,012.5m 1x Caldari Control Tower = 360m 5x Advanced Mobile Laboratory = 750m Total value at NPC price = 4976.5m Remember that liquidation, if needed, may not yield that.
Mr Grimness	Posted - 2009.05.04 08:37:00 - [167] 1bil isk sent to Caleb for 2000 shares.
Cinta Verick Amarr 4th Dimension Investments	Posted - 2009.05.04 08:42:00 - [168] 100m isk sent to Caleb for 200 shares
Keyser Kahn Stellar-Parallax Corp	Posted - 2009.05.04 15:20:00 - [169] 3 billion Isk sent and 6000 shares received. Many thanks Caleb for stepping in and brokering and good luck Ji. kthxbai
Cassperz	Posted - 2009.05.04 21:48:00 - [170] 500m sent to caleb for 1000 shares

Varo Jan Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.04 23:15:00 - [171] Confirming receipt of 200 shares in Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
Aegam	Posted - 2009.05.05 00:35:00 - [172] Payment sent to Caleb Ayrania, 250 million ISK for 500 shares.
Aegam	Posted - 2009.05.05 01:31:00 - [173] Confirming receipt of 500 shares.
Janson Webb Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.05 02:12:00 - [174] Payment for 50 TPMI ASTOCK shares @ 25 million ISK sent to Caleb Ayrania.
Ricdic Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.05 03:35:00 - [175] Forgive me if this is incorrect as I haven't been as active here as normal. But did you guys spend the past 6 pages drilling Ji Sama about all different possible ways the plan could fail, risk assessment etc? Then, after all this drilling on Ji Sama you wire billions of isk to Caleb? Again, forgive me if this is incorrect but I don't believe Caleb has ever run a public ipo/bond or been entrusted with public funds. If this is correct, then you guys have just completely missed the biggest security risk of them all. Caleb only showed up in MD a few months back. Whilst his posts have been plentiful were they worth 24 billion isk? Tell me I am missing something here and you guys didn't just take a giant risk after all that crap in pages 1-6
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.05 03:42:00 - [176] Originally by: Ricdic Forgive me if this is incorrect as I haven't been as active here as normal. But did you guys spend the past 6 pages drilling Ji Sama about all different possible ways the plan could fail, risk assessment etc? Then, after all this drilling on Ji Sama you wire billions of isk to Caleb? Again, forgive me if this is incorrect but I don't believe Caleb has ever run a public ipo/bond or been entrusted with public funds. If this is correct, then you guys have just completely missed the biggest security risk of them all. Caleb only showed up in MD a few months back. Whilst his posts have been plentiful were they worth 24 billion isk? Tell me I am missing something here and you guys didn't just take a giant risk after all that crap in pages 1-6 Thanks for the vote of confidence ric. I believe a few around the game knows that I care little for actual isk. My sole motivation in the game is the community. Going through my history you will find that I did not just show up. I returned from RL caused break. No I have never worked anything like this. Back when I was around in the pre Hexxx era there wasnt much around and much maturity in the secondary markets. Also I was more focused on internal corp management back then. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Miyuki Suzumiya	Posted - 2009.05.05 03:47:00 - [177] Payment sent to Caleb. Payment for TMPI 4000 shares @ 2 billion ISK.
Ricdic Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.05 04:16:00 - [178] Yeh Caleb it wasn't a dig at you at all, just a concern that after all those mechanisms at the last second a middle man was chosen without history of this kind of thing. Well, after this venture Ji Sama will either be stuck with no isk and a 20b debt or you will be known as trusted to at least 20b
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.05 04:22:00 - [179] Originally by: Ricdic Yeh Caleb it wasn't a dig at you at all, just a concern that after all those mechanisms at the last second a middle man was chosen without history of this kind of thing. Well, after this venture Ji Sama will either be stuck with no isk and a 20b debt or you will be known as trusted to at least 20b Fair point, and your right ricdic, i saw this as well. Now i knew Caleb wouldnt take the 24B and run with them.. I knew this because of the OMFGYAMB Factor... Also confirming that TMP Industries will be bringing the investors an announcement later today! Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
TastyTreat	Posted - 2009.05.05 07:21:00 - [180] Confirming that I received 1000 shares. Also, if anyone is looking for some additional TMP shares please contact me in game.

Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.05 07:24:00 - [181] Originally by: TastyTreat Confirming that I received 1000 shares. Also, if anyone is looking for some additional TMP shares please contact me in game. currently the shares arent worth anything, so i recomend against trading them. the shares wont have a value untill after an audit is completet... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.05 09:07:00 - [182] Originally by: Ricdic Tell me I am missing something here and you guys didn't just take a giant risk after all that crap in pages 1-6 I took 5b in collateral off Ji Sama before handing over my 3b to Caleb, so while I thought it was both odd, stupid and pointless to be involving an untrusted third party in the transaction I ignored it on the principle that I didn't give two hoots if either of them take my isk. I'm getting increasingly concerned about the effect the SCC lounge is having. Far too many people are engaging in trust based transactions on the basis of a bit of smalltalk with someone they met on the internet. All I can say is don't come crying to me when your new pal turns out to be Riethe engaging in another social engineering project.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.05 09:46:00 - [183] i dont think thats fair tbh.. SCS was announced on the first page as the broker. besides this isnt solely a trust based investment! atm i have 22B in frozen IPO funds. and i have provided more than 14B in securities! Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Keyser Kahn Stellar-Parallax Corp	Posted - 2009.05.05 09:47:00 - [184] I note the comments and concerns raised above and can only say that my decisions in this matter are based upon previous business dealings with both Ji and Caleb as well as numerous discussions with Caleb primarily on TS & IM rather than just simply taking part in an ingame channel. This isn't to say it is impossible for this to be a comprehensive socialy engineered heist because clearly there are no guarantees in Eve. My personal view, however, is that all is above board in this matter. As I understand it the point of the SCC-Lounge is to help network and build some trust/experience amongst other things but is not supposed to be carte blanche trust all who frequent it .
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.05.05 09:52:00 - [185] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Ricdic Tell me I am missing something here and you guys didn't just take a giant risk after all that crap in pages 1-6 I took 5b in collateral off Ji Sama before handing over my 3b to Caleb, so while I thought it was both odd, stupid and pointless to be involving an untrusted third party in the transaction I ignored it on the principle that I didn't give two hoots if either of them take my isk. Of course, you do realize that in the event of a scam you'll have to split the collateral between the investors. Black Sun Empire
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.05 09:52:00 - [186] Originally by: YouGotRipped Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Ricdic Tell me I am missing something here and you guys didn't just take a giant risk after all that crap in pages 1-6 I took 5b in collateral off Ji Sama before handing over my 3b to Caleb, so while I thought it was both odd, stupid and pointless to be involving an untrusted third party in the transaction I ignored it on the principle that I didn't give two hoots if either of them take my isk. Of course, you do realize that in the event of a scam you'll have to split the collateral between the investors. idd, im sure he is aware of that :D Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Chris15 RennTech Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.05 10:07:00 - [187] Chris15 Confirming Receipt of 100 Shares for Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
Ricdic Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.05 10:31:00 - [188] Originally by: Ji Sama i dont think thats fair tbh.. SCS was announced on the first page as the broker. besides this isnt solely a trust based investment! Care to show me where it was announced on first page as a broker? I searched SCS and SCC and only found reference that they would come in and clean up in the event of your disappearance. This could have (and still could) blow up if Caleb decides to run with the cash. Will you remain liable for the debt if this happen Ji Sama? Have you done any background check on Caleb? Has an auditor checked out Caleb prior to receipt of funds? Has it been made clear from the start that Caleb would be in holding of 20+ billion isk? I really don't want to screw with Caleb because I personally think he is ok, but he has been somewhat untested and you are risking the public's funds on someone unrelated and unlisted in the IPO (or at least not clearly clarified). If you can't counter this claim don't try, just accept a mistake was made, update your OP, make sure existing people are aware of this (which really they should be as they sent the cash to Caleb already) and move forward. I think both Ji Sama and Caleb have shown potential to do great things in the future so consider the constructive criticism as building you up to make sure you putty up all those cracks.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.05.05 11:00:00 - [189] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 05/05/2009 11:00:34 Originally by: Ricdic I really don't want to screw with Caleb because I personally think he is ok [...] Caleb seems to be the idealistic type with a far too bigger mouth to handle scamming on top of it. Ji on the other hand is walking talking liability. Now that my business with Ji Sama has been completed I might provide an unbiased evaluation of this offering. If I'm not too lazy that is. Black Sun Empire
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.05 13:09:00 - [190] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 05/05/2009 11:30:17 Originally by: Ricdic I really don't want to screw with Caleb because I personally think he is ok [...] Caleb seems to be the idealistic type with a far too bigger mouth to handle scamming on top of it. Ji on the other hand is a walking talking liability. Now that my business with Ji Sama has been completed I might provide an unbiased evaluation of this offering. If I'm not too lazy that is. Uhh Thank you... (I think) I am well aware there is a risk that the "intimacy" the lounge brings can make some jump the gun on high risk investments. To that I have to say I hope the lounge can also be a source to make people understand these risks. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread

Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.05 13:10:00 - [191] Originally by: Ricdic This could have (and still could) blow up if Caleb decides to run with the cash. Will you remain liable for the debt if this happen Ji Sama? Have you done any background check on Caleb? Has an auditor checked out Caleb prior to receipt of funds? Has it been made clear from the start that Caleb would be in holding of 20+ billion isk? I wasn't going to say anything since I figured this little faux pas by the OP was pretty clear as day and Bobby was still in board despite being liable to split that POS asset.
Malakai Cross Cross and Cross Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.05 15:25:00 - [192] 50 Million transferred to Caleb via Cross and Cross Enterprises. Fortune favours the cunning, not the bold.
Maxwell Terallis	Posted - 2009.05.06 09:36:00 - [193] Payment sent to Caleb Ayrania for 1000 shares @ 500M isk.
Lecherito	Posted - 2009.05.06 09:55:00 - [194] Edited by: Lecherito on 06/05/2009 10:01:10 I'm posting to confirm that I have invested 600 million into TMP Industries, buying a total of 1200 shares. As for the criticism directed toward the SCC in regards to their fostering of an overly trust based investment mentality, I ask you, exactly which investments in EvE do not revolve 100% around trust? How many investment opportunities actually provide 100% collateral? The last person to provide security for the entire investment was laughed out of MD, with everyone instructing him that such a scheme would only serve to augment the reputation of Dbank, and not his own. No, unfortunately the secondary markets in EvE are 100% based on trust. If the SCC serves to provide a forum through which trustworthy individuals can establish both themselves and their reputation, what, I ask you, is the problem with that? In the end every individual is personally responsible for his individual funds. Information exists to provide a reasonable analysis as to whether an individual is trustworthy or not. SCC enables this in a way that the overtly hostile MD forum does not. -L
Dzil Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division	Posted - 2009.05.06 15:21:00 - [195] Unfortunately we've seen so many scams come through MD, that we're a bit desensitized to it, and further most are unwilling to give a new guy a shot. Imagine, if you will, that you really did want to give the 1 millionth visitor to your website a free xbox. You set up a flashy banner letting him know he won - but are surprised to find out he didn't give you his phone number or shipping address to mail the prize. Not your fault, just a very jaded generation of internet junkies.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.05.06 20:23:00 - [196] Originally by: Ricdic This could have (and still could) blow up if Caleb decides to run with the cash. Will you remain liable for the debt if this happen Ji Sama? Have you done any background check on Caleb? Has an auditor checked out Caleb prior to receipt of funds? Has it been made clear from the start that Caleb would be in holding of 20+ billion isk? I can vouch for BOTH Caleb and Ji Sama.
Ricdic Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.07 03:27:00 - [197] Originally by: Lecherito As for the criticism directed toward the SCC in regards to their fostering of an overly trust based investment mentality, I ask you, exactly which investments in EvE do not revolve 100% around trust? -L I think you missed the point I was making. At no point through the process were people informed that not one but two people would have access to the funds (3 if you count his director friend). The IPO seeker and a trustee who had yet been trusted with anything. Point is, people investing should have known from the start that the trustee was being used so that they could make a suitable decision on whether or not to invest based on their analysis of the parties involved. It really doesn't matter who the trustee was, what matters is how it wasn't advised to shareholders in the IPO or following documentation.
Ricdic Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.07 03:28:00 - [198] Originally by: LaVista Vista I can vouch for BOTH Caleb and Ji Sama. So are you stating officially right here that if either of these characters default or scam through this offering you will repay the entire debt or be responsible for the whole debt?
Bonhomme Carnaval	Posted - 2009.05.07 03:35:00 - [199] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: LaVista Vista I can vouch for BOTH Caleb and Ji Sama. So are you stating officially right here that if either of these characters default or scam through this offering you will repay the entire debt or be responsible for the whole debt? No he's not. He's saying that from his own experience they seem to be trustworthy. Also, investors sent their ISK to Caleb. Their ISK was not transfered to Caleb by the IPO manager without the investors' permissions. By the way, you should try to be more professional, read : not putting words in other people's mouths like children do when argueing.
Janson Webb Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.07 04:11:00 - [200] Isn't the point Ricdic has raised about Caleb a valid one? Ji was required to extensively justify his trustworthiness and then the ISK went to Caleb...huh? Maybe he has a nice long history of handling these sums of ISK, but it isn't documented in this thread. I know investors are supposed to do their own research, but it's a stark contrast to the information provided by Ji about himself. I thought it odd at the time, but since I've only invested a tiny amount in this I just went with it. Not a good mentality but I am new to MD and wanted to see if anyone raised concerns over it before voicing my own. My gut tells me they are both trustworthy but that's not really the point. That said, best of luck with your venture Ji, looking forward to my dividends.

Companion Qube	Posted - 2009.05.07 04:27:00 - [201] Originally by: Janson Webb Isn't the point Ricdic has raised about Caleb a valid one? Ji was required to extensively justify his trustworthiness and then the ISK went to Caleb...huh? Maybe he has a nice long history of handling these sums of ISK, but it isn't documented in this thread. I know investors are supposed to do their own research, but it's a stark contrast to the information provided by Ji about himself. I thought it odd at the time, but since I've only invested a tiny amount in this I just went with it. Not a good mentality but I am new to MD and wanted to see if anyone raised concerns over it before voicing my own. My gut tells me they are both trustworthy but that's not really the point. That said, best of luck with your venture Ji, looking forward to my dividends. The point is valid, and everyone who sent ISK to a non-vetted broker is taking a significant personal risk. Personally, Caleb seems like an alright guy who wants to run some sort of financial service for personal satisfaction. I could be wrong, internetspaceships players are famous for social engineering, and this could be an elaborate scam but let's withhold judgment of Caleb until we have more information. I think the real lol worthy moment here is that the majority of a very large IPO in money has already changed hands before either the broker was vetted or the fund recipient completed an audit. I'm keeping my iskies until someone has had a look at the financials of Ji's business. This has no bearing on my perception of the involved parties, it's simply risk mitigation. That said, much <3 and good luck Ji and Caleb.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.05.07 05:19:00 - [202] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: LaVista Vista I can vouch for BOTH Caleb and Ji Sama. So are you stating officially right here that if either of these characters default or scam through this offering you will repay the entire debt or be responsible for the whole debt? Last time I checked, the word "vouch" meant nothing of that sort. Quote: assert or confirm as a result of one's own experience that something is true or accurately so described : ò confirm that someone is who they say they are or that they are of good character : he was refused entrance until someone could vouch for him. Especially seeing as I'm personally barely worth 20bill, do you think that's likely or what's up with that?
Ricdic Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.07 05:43:00 - [203] Edited by: Ricdic on 07/05/2009 05:43:16 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: LaVista Vista I can vouch for BOTH Caleb and Ji Sama. So are you stating officially right here that if either of these characters default or scam through this offering you will repay the entire debt or be responsible for the whole debt? Last time I checked, the word "vouch" meant nothing of that sort. Quote: to attest; guarantee; certify (usually fol. by for): to vouch for someone in a business transaction. Thats from dictionary.com You can see there can be many insinuations with the word vouch, hell there was a long MD thread on it where it was somewhat agreed that Vouch meant to guarantor. Heres the thread I started, you can see the a large group of the participants believe that a vouch means a guarantee of sorts. So with you saying "vouch" above without clarification it can be incredibly misleading. -------------------- Your response either way clarified that you had nothing more than a character reference on those two and won't be liable for any issues that arise as a result of scam/failure etc. -------------------- That is necessary to avoid misleading investors into a false sense of security LV.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.05.07 06:08:00 - [204] Originally by: Ricdic Your response either way clarified that you had nothing more than a character reference on those two and won't be liable for any issues that arise as a result of scam/failure etc. First of all, let me rephrase: I can vouch for the integrity of Ji Sama and Caleb. I know for a fact that they are good guys and I would trust them with hell of a lot more than 20bill. As for the speculation you put forward about how I "had nothing more than a character reference", Ricdic, I think that you should really consider not posting about things which you know nothing about. Let me try and explain to you the process I consider when I either vouch for somebody or don't. I split people into 2 categories: 1) People whom I know in real life and know are sound and honest people 2) Hexxx Ji Sama and Caleb falls into the first category. Please notice that I have never actually vouched for anybody else before, not even your ventures.
Ricdic Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.07 06:19:00 - [205] So you didn't read that thread? If you aren't guaranteeing their operation then it's a character reference?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.05.07 06:21:00 - [206] Originally by: Ricdic So you didn't read that thread? If you aren't guaranteeing their operation then it's a character reference? Hey, Ricdic. Lets play a game It's called: StopUsingStrawmanArguments(SUSA for short) Let me quote myself and then be done with this stupid argument. Quote: I can vouch for the integrity of Ji Sama and Caleb. I know for a fact that they are good guys and I would trust them with hell of a lot more than 20bill.
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2009.05.07 06:21:00 - [207] Ric, are you saying every single person you have characterally vouched for you will pay back any of them that have scammed? wow that EIB tab is pretty big :D
Ricdic Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.07 06:41:00 - [208] Originally by: Athre Ric, are you saying every single person you have characterally vouched for you will pay back any of them that have scammed? wow that EIB tab is pretty big :D Actually yes thats exactly what I am saying. Oh, and I never vouched for EIB. My point wasn't that LV wanted to state his support but that his statement was open to interpretation as per the other 3 page thread I linked that he failed to read. Again, he has quoted just above poorly worded information that doesn't actually determine if he is liable or not. See the Wylker IPO for understanding on how a vouch can be seriously misinterpreted (people vouched for him and were then *****ing and moaning when others tried forcing them to repay the debt). This is common sense people. If a statement can be misinterpreted, just clarify it. Don't be sooks and whingers, just make sure it's clear so it doesn't come back to bite you in the ass in the future.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.05.07 08:02:00 - [209] Originally by: Ricdic his statement was open to interpretation as per the other 3 page thread I linked that he failed to read. I didn't fail to read it at all. I just fundamentally disagree with it. And if you read those 3 pages of thread I supposed "failed to read"(Again, you are assuming too much), then you would realize that Shardale was the only person who directly agreed with you.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.07 08:22:00 - [210] TMP Industries General Announcement: First I would like to thank the investors for showing patience and understanding. Then I would like to apologize to the investors for my delay in bringing this announcement forward. I assure you that I delayed this for a good reason, I and have hold back this announcement for as long as it was responsible and possible. TMP industries will launch phase 4 this Friday, with a small adjustment. Because of the major lack of auditors all of the sudden, it has been impossible to get another auditor for this IPO. (Before launching phase 4) I have mailed and tried to have conversations with them all. Only 1 bothered actually rejecting my offer, the rest havenÆt just been able to manage a reply, in game at least. Because of the lack of audit, instead of offering 95 % buyback from this Friday we offer all investors a way out with no loss involved, i.e. 100 % Buyback. (100 % buyback stops on Sunday the 10th May 2009) After this the normal 95 % buyback is in effect. So if you are an investor, and you think; ôI want out of this,ö just send your shares back to Caleb, and he will refund the entire amount. Do get a hold of him before you do this please, for easy verification! Any shares that arenÆt sold, TMP Industries will buy up. And relist on the exchange. A performance audit will be created in the nearest future, as soon as some viable solution to this has been found. Expect the next economical report in less than 21 days. This report should be backed up the before mentioned audit. This is our new deadline for an audit. To the rest of the investors that havenÆt fled this apparently sinking ship: Thank you all for you vote of faith and confidence, I could not have gone through this without you. First dividend is scheduled for the 7th of June. Lastly I want to apologize to the investors that did not know that SCS would broker this deal. Since there are at least 2 investors that didnÆt know that, the message of this havenÆt been clear enough. Securities are in place, IPO funds are frozen until Friday, where they will be released to TMP Industries. SCS will hold a small portion of that, in case any investor wants to use the 100 % buyback option. As a general info; I will be away on vacation till Sunday. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com

Ricdic Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.07 08:24:00 - [211] Now read the Wylker IPO thread and take note at the people going nuts at those who vouched for Wylker and even some who had war declared on them as a result. It isn't really up for debate as to the true meaning of the word vouch, the only thing of importance is to clarify your position when using the word (as regardless it has been shown via dictionary.com that it is easily misinterpreted if not clarified). Why are you arguing this point? Not that a 'vouch' locks you into anything, just that it needs to come with clarification...
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.05.07 08:42:00 - [212] I hate to keep de-railing this thread, but: Quote: Now read the Wylker IPO thread and take note at the people going nuts at those who vouched for Wylker and even some who had war declared on them as a result. Having went trough the last 5 pages, I hardly see people going "nuts". I see you and a few other vocal people. But hardly anything worth mentioning. Quote: It isn't really up for debate as to the true meaning of the word vouch, the only thing of importance is to clarify your position when using the word (as regardless it has been shown via dictionary.com that it is easily misinterpreted if not clarified). And the fact is that I never said that I would garauantee anything. Now lets kill this discussion. It doesn't exactly belong in this thread.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.07 08:44:00 - [213] Originally by: LaVista Vista snip Now lets kill this discussion. It doesn't exactly belong in this thread. Thank you Lavista :D Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Alex555	Posted - 2009.05.07 09:01:00 - [214] there is one big rule for any investor out there besides auditing, checking, double checking, etc - invest into something/someone you can afford to trust. there's always a possibility of scam in both RL and eve world. Noone will ever gurantee a 100% security. hence in the end there's a matter of trust or some inner feelings about a project. if there's too much pressure on a nerve system than better move along and leave an investment opportunity alone.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.07 13:10:00 - [215] The lack of audit is a step too far out of my comfort zone so I have returned my 6000 shares and received my 3b investment back. I am reasonably convinced of Ji Sama's honesty as is evidenced by the fact that I handed over my isk. However, I am not yet convinced of his business acumen. The risk that concerns me now is not that Ji Sama or one of his colleagues might run away with the isk but that they might fail to generate the expected return. Without a good audit I cannot remedy this concern and therefore I have no choice but to withdraw. I am still holding just under 5b in collateral and my decision to withdraw as an investor has no effect on that.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.07 13:54:00 - [216] Ji, send me your API details and I'll take a look. I make no promises on how fast I can turn around that many accounts.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.05.07 21:25:00 - [217] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 07/05/2009 21:35:53 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Ji, send me your API details and I'll take a look. I make no promises on how fast I can turn around that many accounts. No ****? Well I thought you were already auditing him Take a look here at a convo I had with him: [ 2009.05.04 16:25:45 ] LRN > :D [ 2009.05.04 16:27:56 ] LRN > I could sell those in jita if you changed your mind [ 2009.05.04 16:27:59 ] LRN > just let me know [ 2009.05.04 17:05:38 ] Ji Sama > oi [ 2009.05.04 17:05:39 ] Ji Sama > champ [ 2009.05.04 17:05:45 ] Ji Sama > ye i got your mail [ 2009.05.04 17:06:20 ] Ji Sama > its just im in the middle of an audit process. and the 3.5B would ruin my margin, i really want them, just wanted to know if i could extend the purchase 24 hours... [ 2009.05.04 17:07:54 ] LRN > interesting [ 2009.05.04 17:08:09 ] LRN > you said you already payed for the freighter in your post [ 2009.05.04 17:08:19 ] Ji Sama > fenris and a charon ye [ 2009.05.04 17:08:26 ] LRN > oh [ 2009.05.04 17:08:37 ] LRN > just don't scam [ 2009.05.04 17:08:38 ] LRN > :D [ 2009.05.04 17:08:40 ] Ji Sama > nvm ill get the isk asap [ 2009.05.04 17:08:51 ] Ji Sama > ill just tell kazzac that he has to account [ 2009.05.04 17:08:53 ] Ji Sama > for it [ 2009.05.04 17:09:06 ] Ji Sama > no i bought a charon from ac115 Basically I've mailed the guy that the production was complete and contracted the 3 freighters to him as previously agreed at which point he IGNORED ME even hours later when I convoed him. None of his alts were online aside from Ji Sama, though he posted in the forums in that time interval. Eventually he did reply to the convo, yes it took him quite some time to cook a story but I know that previously he was ignoring me, I could feel it He probably expected to get the investors money in 24h and then add you all to his block list. Black Sun Empire
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.05.07 22:14:00 - [218] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 07/05/2009 22:16:09 Originally by: LaVista Vista Having went trough the last 5 pages, I hardly see people going "nuts". I see you and a few other vocal people. But hardly anything worth mentioning. What's that LVV? You want to underwrite the entire 25 billions yourself? That's splendid. We need more "dedicated" players like LVV. Black Sun Empire
TastyTreat Fraternity of Obnoxious Lemmings	Posted - 2009.05.08 05:07:00 - [219] Arsiiel now owns 250 TMP shares, which I sold to him. Confirming receipt of the agreed upon amount of isk.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.08 06:15:00 - [220] As mentioned earlier please use the ingame channel TMP IPO if you need to contact me. The buyback is open but since confirmation of the transfer can take a bit of time, please have patience in these cases. Confirmed Bad Bobby buyback, 6000 BSHARES TastyTreat sold 250 BSHARES to Arsiiel Please dont trade between each other till the IPO is concluded. Any transactions between characters is hard to track and makes it harder to work the ledger. Please use the sellers buyback, and buyers order their shares in this thread. Note: Ji Sama is out of office till sunday. This means I cant reach him atm. I will be available to answer questions to the extend of my knowledge. Current BSHARES : 9600 Current funds: 19,525 B isk. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread

TastyTreat Fraternity of Obnoxious Lemmings	Posted - 2009.05.08 06:59:00 - [221] Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 28/04/2009 09:27:06 We dont currently plan on buying back at 100%... One dividend payment should be enough to cover any losses associated with selling back the shares to TMP Industries. You are ofcourse welcome to sell the share to other investors for any price you like... Based off of the above quote I assumed that trading/selling shares was fair game. Although in retrospect I may have accidentally interpreted it out of context. I will refrain from any further trading before the conclusion of this IPO.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.08 07:26:00 - [222] @TastyTreat. Yes that was post IPO conclusion. As it stands now this is likely to change a bit. There will be buyback at 100% till the IPO is concluded. Basically a full cancellation option. Once the external audit is finished and the remaining shares distributed the Shares are live and can be traded accordingly. More detail on this will be posted at finalizing. and then there will be cake. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.08 12:43:00 - [223] Originally by: YouGotRipped No ****? Well I thought you were already auditing him Nope, having not logged into my main (read Kazzac) in some days I found a evemail in my box asking for one, but this was before the actual start of anything. At this point I still have nothing as well.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.05.08 17:35:00 - [224] If shares have been issued, why can't you trade them? You only need a ledger if no shares are being issued. Not sure how many are doing this anymore after Xabier. There are a few old timers doing it via ledger, but I don't really like it for newer bonds from people who don't have the rep.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.05.08 17:43:00 - [225] Finally had a thorough read of the post after voicing my concerns on page 1. I really can't believe some of the investors here. 1. OP agrees to an audit, BUT you send cash before audit is done 2. The IPO is launched on the rep of the OP, but the person with the cash is not the OP. 3. Why is Celeb not launching the IPO or having audits done. If you agree to invest after audit, let the OP just post the reservations. When the audit is complete and the auditor gives his/her report then send the money (if your happy with audit). Any other method you deserve to lose your cash. I don't know if Ji Sama will scam, but he certainly is showing all the classic signs of launching an IPO scam.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.08 19:56:00 - [226] @Cosmoray. SCS and in this case I am acting as a third party broker. TMP needs confirmed securities confirmed, and current assets and history confirmed. I think basically all the needed information is all in the above. Reason I am receiving the isk is exactly because audit is not done yet. This way the reservations and distribution of shares can be handled, and the isk is frozen until TMP and Ji Sama has the auditors confirmation. The stocks should not be traded until the IPO is concluded, because until then TMP stocks dont have the value. I am not launching the IPO, because I am not the client I am the broker. I dont see how my assets need an audit for acting as a broker. My net value and my trust has nothing to do with each other, it no concern of the investors if I have 100M or 100B isk to my name. And I fail to see how this is even close to a scam IPO, since there is already almost 100% coverage in security prior to any audit. The only need for the audit as things stand is to validate TMP trade history and his current passive assets ready for profit making. Even though this IPO has suffered a rather bad timing, and hit a few bumps, all in all I would say its already more then safe, the only thing is whether TMP business plan holds up and can generate the promised 7% monthly yield. This however isnt improved by keeping the assets frozen. I hope Ji Sama will have gotten hold of a willing auditor when he returns this sunday. I hope that clears things up a bit.. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.05.08 21:35:00 - [227] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania I am not launching the IPO, because I am not the client I am the broker. I dont see how my assets need an audit for acting as a broker. My net value and my trust has nothing to do with each other, it no concern of the investors if I have 100M or 100B isk to my name. Surely you jest? Notwithstanding LVV's endorsement... If you're the broker for a 25 billion isk IPO/Bond and you have an NAV of 100 mil, with no history at all then I think it'd absolutely be the concern of the investors as to who was handling their money. Bottom line, money goes to you, you give it to Ji Sama. Assuming Ji Sama isn't pulling a fast one, then by adding that extra step that's someone else who can scam. So yes, it is a valid concern for investors.
Gabriel Virtus hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.09 04:48:00 - [228] I am requesting a buyback for my 500 TMP shares. Sent an email to Caleb in-game. Too many mistakes for my blood -GV
PublicRelations Kwint Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2009.05.09 05:34:00 - [229] Originally by: cosmoray If shares have been issued, why can't you trade them? You only need a ledger if no shares are being issued. Not sure how many are doing this anymore after Xabier. There are a few old timers doing it via ledger, but I don't really like it for newer bonds from people who don't have the rep. Ledgers are fine for a small, single-payout bond. Something like Kwint Industries last's 60-day bond fits that model but if you're raising real capital and especially if you intend to make regular payments or keep it open for a long length then you should issue actual shares and allow them to be traded. It's a big courtesy to your investors and it's ultimately easier on the issuer. Now, if one of your investors needs his ISK back quickly he can just sell the shares rather than desperately trying to convince you to buy them back. Plus, the trading of this sort of debt is an integral part of the secondary market and its health is good for us all, at least in the long run. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.09 08:21:00 - [230] Originally by: Viktor Raybach Originally by: Caleb Ayrania I am not launching the IPO, because I am not the client I am the broker. I dont see how my assets need an audit for acting as a broker. My net value and my trust has nothing to do with each other, it no concern of the investors if I have 100M or 100B isk to my name. Surely you jest? Notwithstanding LVV's endorsement... If you're the broker for a 25 billion isk IPO/Bond and you have an NAV of 100 mil, with no history at all then I think it'd absolutely be the concern of the investors as to who was handling their money. Bottom line, money goes to you, you give it to Ji Sama. Assuming Ji Sama isn't pulling a fast one, then by adding that extra step that's someone else who can scam. So yes, it is a valid concern for investors. This. Caleb, statements like you made here and similar statements that Ji Sama has made is exactly why I have voiced concern. From your point of view, you may be trustworthy and if you know JS and LVV in real life then I understand why there would be a circle of trust between you in the same way as I trust many of the eve players that are also real life friends of mine. But that trust does not extend outside that friendship and never really could, barring a Ricdic approved vouch from LVV which we know LVV could not even begin to afford. Putting youself in our shoes, you've got to understand that we do not know you from adam. You are just a guy that showed up into MD recently and has been doing some stuff on the periphery that some (but not all) of us have witnessed. Some of us have viewed your activities as positive and some of us have viewed them as negative or just a mess. But still none of that goes to how much we can trust you not to steal our isk. The greater problem, from my perspective, is that although I can understand the relationship you have with those that do trust you and I am personally optimistic that you and Ji Sama are honest people, I still see comments like this and cringe. It goes to my verdict of you and Ji's competence and business acumen that you've made a bit of a muddle of this launch, you make bizzarre choices including this brokerage nonsense and then make totally facepalm statements like the one I've quoted. It's ok to make mistakes and say daft things when you are new and untested, it's also ok to make mistakes and say daft things when you've built up a reputation, it's all forgivable. But at key times like this, when you're asking for isk or handling isk belonging to other people, you've got to work on a flawless performance because people get really touchy about this kind of thing. Saying daft things that suggest you have little regard for the perfectly reasonable reservations that investors have, when you are holding their money, is PR suicide. So far, in this launch, I'd say Ji has done a fair job. But there have been a whole raft of mistakes that should never have come about. He's demonstrated both prior to and during this launch that he's a little too ready to trust people and his level of organisation may not be that great. If his intent is to manage a corp and the people within it, he's going to need to perform a whole lot better than the glimpse we have seen so far. You on the other hand have demonstrated fair organisation but little insight or sympathy for the views of those who's money you are handling. If your intent is to go forward with brokerage as a venture, you need to work on that one. Anyway, once the audit is done, the mess is cleaned up and dividends start flowing this will all be water under the bridge. I expect both of you to go on to greater things. Just try not to sabotage your potentially good name in the intervening period eh?

Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.09 09:14:00 - [231] @Bad Bobby Thanks for the clean tone, and constructive criticism. I have admit that basically all your statements are correct. I do however not entirely agree with all the conclusions. If the questions and attacks to this IPO was mainly from investors I would, but the case is that the voiced opposition is mainly from non investors. Since their money arent at risk I dont see why they need to voice their concerns in a way that makes it seem like every new IPO is an attempted scam. I agree there is a need for testing the legitimacy of a new business proposal in the secondary markets, but there is a thing called benefit of the doubt. Also I personally think this IPO has gone above and beyond in trying to make the investors feel safe. The fact that I am brokering the deal and holding the funds is just one of these attempts to share the risk, and make sure the earlier doubts in Ji Sama could be alliviated. Whether or not I am trusted enough for that should be the investors and Ji Samas business and not outsiders yelling "Scammer" at everyone entering the MD. And no I am not that new to the MD, although I rejoined the game recently. Maybe my history dont grant me a card blanche on trust, but at least a spotless and scamless track record since 14 days after game launch should count for something. The only dirt you could find on me in here and in EVE in general is my tendencies to voice opinions. All that be as it may, I am glad you voiced the concerns in a way that actually made sense, and I hope those reading it make up their own mind in these matters and judge the entire thread before jumping to any conclusions. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.09 09:58:00 - [232] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Thanks for the clean tone, and constructive criticism. Thanks for taking my comments in the spirit in which they were meant. Forum-Fu can make this a terrible medium for conveying the feeling behind a statement and it gets ten times harder when dealing with a multi-language userbase. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania If the questions and attacks to this IPO was mainly from investors I would, but the case is that the voiced opposition is mainly from non investors. Since their money arent at risk I dont see why they need to voice their concerns... Well, in fairness I think if the answers to the attacks had been better pitched, you might have found that a lot of those people would have become investors or would have endorsed your product. If you are getting attacked, you might want to consider that the war is started by two parties even if one is only playing the part of the victim. You should also be wary or writing off posters as irrelevant noise in any of these threads because today's troll could easily be tommorrows client or investor. The ability to handle the conflict ridden environment that is MD and come out looking good is one of the greater accolades you can achieve here. Even some of the MD regulars with the highest trusted reputations can be terrible at dealing with that side of things. You're not alone in getting a kicking on the forums every now and then, obviously. Treat it as an opertunity to demonstrate your PR and people-handling ability. Also, try not to be so shallow in your preception of peoples agendas. Many of the people most likely to critique or attack a proposal are not that likely to invest in any but the most ironclad or lucrative schemes, the two sides of that are strongly linked. But when acting as a militia protecting the secondary market from scams AND bad plans AND bad risks we are actually working on raising the standards and protecting the pool of isk available for investment. Scams getting through are not good for the health of that potential investment pool. Failed plans and bad risks also undermine that pool. We may not go about it in the best or most friendly way but we are trying to help, even if we are ultimately helping ourselves. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania ...in a way that makes it seem like every new IPO is an attempted scam. That's a very narrow perspective I feel. Yes there are some people who are very eager to call the scam and there are some ventures which are just bait for those people. But screening EVERY venture for the likelyhood of scam is what we have to do, just because a lot of ventures fail at that stage and never go on to further scrutiny does not mean that we are being unreasonable... if anything it means we are being effective. We may cull a lot of the weak along with the actual scams but if that is the cost of the process then that is a price I am willing to see paid. You may disagree, but I'm here to make money and ensure there are good oppertunities in the future for making even more. I'm pretty good at it too. I've never been scammed, I tend to be pretty fair in my criticism unless provoked, but I am paranoid. I can accept the bad with the good in me... and many people trust me with large amounts of their isk because they know that robbing me would be a difficult task. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania there is a thing called benefit of the doubt. Yes, and people comming to MD asking for money do not get that benefit. The 'doubt' will always go against them. That's the way it has to be, it's called caution and those of us that do not practice it soon get parted from their isk. In the real world things are a little different, but EVE will never be that way.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.09 10:17:00 - [233] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Also I personally think this IPO has gone above and beyond in trying to make the investors feel safe. Trying yes, but succeeding? The strange thing is that even though you have gone to a lot of effort it hasn't actually been all that effective. A lot of that is down to the way you have gone about it and the way you have handled (or not) the mood of this thread. But your efforts are appreciated and I personally hope you learn from this experience and bring this level of effort to other ventures... but with just a little more skill. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania The fact that I am brokering the deal and holding the funds is just one of these attempts to share the risk, and make sure the earlier doubts in Ji Sama could be alliviated. Sadly, all it did was double the number of people that we had to worry about. Sharing the risk did not reduce it or divide it... it multiplied it. You would have had to have a much stronger and current reputation to have achieved what you set out to do with that. But if you handle this and later ventures well you can be sure you will gain that. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Whether or not I am trusted enough for that should be the investors and Ji Samas business and not outsiders yelling "Scammer" at everyone entering the MD. I've covered that ground already, but I'll re-state that just because some of us are not putting money on the table (or in my case did briefly and reconsidered) it does not mean we do not have a stake in this venture succeeding or failing... or the manner in which it succeeds or fails. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania And no I am not that new to the MD, although I rejoined the game recently. Maybe my history dont grant me a card blanche on trust, but at least a spotless and scamless track record since 14 days after game launch should count for something. The only dirt you could find on me in here and in EVE in general is my tendencies to voice opinions. Sadly, that counts for very little. If it were not for your connection to other people that have been actively involved while you've been away, you'd have the sum total of zip. It may seem harsh, but you will need to understand and accept some of these realities. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania All that be as it may, I am glad you voiced the concerns in a way that actually made sense, No problem. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania and I hope those reading it make up their own mind in these matters and judge the entire thread before jumping to any conclusions. Lemmings and sheep are everywhere, but most people will make their own minds up. Those that consider or choose to invest will generally put a lot more thought into it than the casual commentators, so if there was a real chance of you getting money from someone then discussion like this is rarely going to harm your chances... provided you and Ji handle it well!
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.05.09 12:24:00 - [234] The problem with having a broker, again is the trust issue. When you invest in an IPO, you are investing in the IPO manager. If you hand over ISK to a broker, you now have to trust them at least an equal amount to the IPO manager. Why would I need an audit of a broker? Do I trust the broker? You haven't done anything to put you in the trustworthy category. When I hear broker, I think of people with a large reputation that they can be 100% trusted with any amount of funds. Names that spring to mind are Kazuo, EBANK, Kwint, Bad Bobby, Ray, Shar, AC155, LVV, Cosmo, PP, plus a couple of others. Bottom line Caleb, you have done nothing to prove level of trust except your wordy statements. For us as a community to accept your word at facevalue is foolhardy at best. Trust comes with proof, you haven't done it yet. So far the launch has been "hey guys I need 25B in an IPO, and I promise to get an audit done meanwhile send your money to my mate who has done nothing in the game. When the audit is done I'll get the cash" Sound like Evn7289 & Xabier???
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.05.09 12:30:00 - [235] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 09/05/2009 12:35:46 Originally by: cosmoray "hey guys I need 25B in an IPO, and I promise to get an audit done meanwhile send your money to my mate who has done nothing in the game. When the audit is done I'll get the cash" Sound like Evn7289 & Xabier??? Sounds more like you haven't actually followed the thread at all. But that might just be me Not only did your argument base around ad hominem, but you also ignore the fact that Ji Sama was extremely upfront about the fact that he would be fine with an audit. The second somebody mentioned, he took contact to a large amount of auditors. Sadly, as you would have noticed, it didn't go very well, because the current supply of auditors is... limited.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.09 13:13:00 - [236] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania I fail to see how this is even close to a scam IPO, since there is already almost 100% coverage in security prior to any audit. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Add to this the POS estimated at 5B (Bobby or the Audit can confirm this estimate) Keyser Kahn Underwriting with 3B, and myself personally for 4B. I make that 12b or about 50% security, I know we talked about other securities but were any others actually enacted? Not a criticism or a call for more, just trying to clarify the details. In the case of Keyser and yourself being 7b of security, I'm sure you can forgive me for not actually feeling that secured by that since you're all very involved with the risk itself in one way or another. You can turn this same criticism on me, but I have the rep to brush that off along with any claims of conflict. The point I am leading to here is from my perspective it would 'feel' safer if you two hadn't come forward to underwrite it, because it smelt badly of sales hook. I'm a PvPer, I know bait, that looked like it. Obviously I'm not in any way innocent of using sales tactics and baited hooks, even in this thread. But it takes a slightly more sensitive nose to detect the odour that my work leaves behind. If you are going to do this kind of thing, be good at it, or if you don't intend to do that kind of thing, beware looking like you are by accident. When it comes to deception, the best people at it are those that appear to be the opposite of what they really are and the only evidence of them passing through is a slight soreness and uneasy feeling of being violated in your sleep. You won't find that wording in Sun Tzu, but he would understand what I am trying to say. Originally by: LaVista Vista you also ignore the fact that Ji Sama was extremely upfront about the fact that he would be fine with an audit. The second somebody mentioned, he took contact to a large amount of auditors. This is true and one of the reasons why I haven't torn this venture to shreds. I get the impression that there is an honest and potentially successfull venture in this thread, ill-starred though it may be. Time will tell on that one. Originally by: LaVista Vista Sadly, as you would have noticed, it didn't go very well, because the current supply of auditors is... limited. MD audits are currently broken and I'm concerned about how long it will be until normal service can be resumed. It's an open door right now to conveniently slipping something through without an audit while appearing to be seeking one. I'm not saying that's what has happened here, allthough on the surface it fits the mold, but if it isn't happening here it's happening somewhere else.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.09 19:28:00 - [237] I'm still available, and still awaiting API keys. IN fact I have free time until monday afternoon at which point I'll be nose deep in a new VOIP system so don't expect to even hear from me for awhile.
PublicRelations Kwint Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2009.05.09 19:53:00 - [238] Originally by: LaVista Vista Not only did your argument base around ad hominem, but you also ignore the fact that Ji Sama was extremely upfront about the fact that he would be fine with an audit. The second somebody mentioned, he took contact to a large amount of auditors. Sadly, as you would have noticed, it didn't go very well, because the current supply of auditors is... limited. Ji Sama actually asked me a few days ago if I would be willing to audit this so I can confirm that he is indeed serious about having it audited. Unfortunately, I'm absurdly busy at the moment and haven't even really had time to manage my own finances, let alone seriously evaluate someone else's. I actually owe the man a bit of an apology as I haven't even responded to his request but before I type that out I should get back to counting neutrons....I really wish that were an analogy. Right, well, I do not plan to invest in this venture and certainly see short comings in its structure but from my position he is at least serious about being audited and that is a decidedly good sign. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Companion Qube	Posted - 2009.05.09 20:10:00 - [239] Caleb, Since Ji is out of town until Sunday can you forward his API keys to Kazzac? Getting the ball rolling on the audit front should make people feel a bit better.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.09 20:22:00 - [240] Confirming I will get a hold of Kazzac and arrange the audit. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread

brutoid Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.10 15:07:00 - [241] Hi, i notice Ji's back online today and was wondering if we can get an update on proceedings? Thanks.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.10 16:00:00 - [242] I just got home 4 hours ago. Im still unpacking and fixing practical RL stuff. Will comment and update on TMP Industries current status. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.10 16:28:00 - [243] A small update on the SHARES. 40400 SHARES have been distributed, and payment have been recieved. The current total: 20.2 B isk. There is 4100 reserved Leaving 4500 SHARES left for reservations. Any questions can be asked in the ingame channel "TMP IPO" - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Selina Candor Chernobyl Trading Corporation	Posted - 2009.05.10 17:52:00 - [244] As part of a SCS intiative and with Ji Sama's consent, API keys for the TMP IPO have also been released to Brock Nelson. The goal of this program is to allow smaller auditors to gain experience and credibility by working on projects that would usually be reserved only for MD's very trusted. Both auditors will work seperately to produce their reports. Ideally, the 'intern' report will be completed and posted first followed by the 'Senior' report. This will allow any potential flaws in the 'intern' report to be pointed out and discussed so that the new auditor may improve his or her skills. The SCS will be doing a full announcement of this program at a later date.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.05.10 17:59:00 - [245] Originally by: Selina Candor As part of a SCS intiative and with Ji Sama's consent, API keys for the TMP IPO have also been released to Brock Nelson. The goal of this program is to allow smaller auditors to gain experience and credibility by working on projects that would usually be reserved only for MD's very trusted. Both auditors will work seperately to produce their reports. Ideally, the 'intern' report will be completed and posted first followed by the 'Senior' report. This will allow any potential flaws in the 'intern' report to be pointed out and discussed so that the new auditor may improve his or her skills. The SCS will be doing a full announcement of this program at a later date. Exciting stuff, to be bloody honest.
Marcus Baltar	Posted - 2009.05.10 19:51:00 - [246] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Leaving 4500 SHARES left for reservations. Reserving another 300 TMPI shares. 150,000,000 ISK sent 2009.05.10 19:38 to Caleb Ayrania ( [r]=Payment for 300 TMPI shares @ 500K each ) as requested. In addition to the 200 TMPI shares reserved here, paid for here and received here. Thanks. -- DesuSigs
Marcus Baltar	Posted - 2009.05.10 20:07:00 - [247] Confirming receipt of 300 Tash-Murkon Prime Industries "B" shares at a cost of 150,000,000 ISK (500,000 ISK per share); Tash-Murkon Prime Industries (In-game Info details) Ticker; T-M P CEO & Founder; Ji Sama Share number; 100,000 Member count; 34 Tax Rate; 0.0% Corporation Founded; 2008.11.02 Making 500 TMPI shares held. Thanks for the speedy response. -- DesuSigs
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.05.10 22:30:00 - [248] Confirming that I'm auditing Ji Sama and any other relevant characters. Blueprint Store
Biruni Khan	Posted - 2009.05.11 00:32:00 - [249] Originally by: Marcus Baltar Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Leaving 4500 SHARES left for reservations. Reserving another 300 TMPI shares. If they're still available, I'd like to buy 1,000 shares (500,000,000 isk).
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.11 08:11:00 - [250] Edited by: Caleb Ayrania on 11/05/2009 08:11:25 Confirming reservation of 1000 SHARES Biruni Khan Leaving 3500 SHARES. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread

Roger Kiyosaki	Posted - 2009.05.11 12:10:00 - [251] Edited by: Roger Kiyosaki on 11/05/2009 12:11:07 Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Leaving 4500 SHARES left for reservations. What about my reservation that went unfilled? I certainly hope I get some allocated this time around... From page 5: Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki Reserving 400 shares (200m)
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.11 12:31:00 - [252] Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki Edited by: Roger Kiyosaki on 11/05/2009 12:11:07 Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Leaving 4500 SHARES left for reservations. What about my reservation that went unfilled? I certainly hope I get some allocated this time around... From page 5: Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki Reserving 400 shares (200m) If you are on the reserve list, just send the isk to caleb, and he will send you the shares. There should be around 3200 shares left.. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Roger Kiyosaki	Posted - 2009.05.11 13:37:00 - [253] Originally by: Ji Sama Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki Edited by: Roger Kiyosaki on 11/05/2009 12:11:07 Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Leaving 4500 SHARES left for reservations. What about my reservation that went unfilled? I certainly hope I get some allocated this time around... From page 5: Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki Reserving 400 shares (200m) If you are on the reserve list, just send the isk to caleb, and he will send you the shares. There should be around 3200 shares left.. Perfect. Will send the ISK this evening.
Biruni Khan	Posted - 2009.05.11 14:00:00 - [254] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Edited by: Caleb Ayrania on 11/05/2009 08:11:25 Confirming reservation of 1000 SHARES Biruni Khan Leaving 3500 SHARES. Thanks. ISK sent.
Dzil Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division	Posted - 2009.05.11 14:53:00 - [255] Originally by: Selina Candor As part of a SCS intiative and with Ji Sama's consent, API keys for the TMP IPO have also been released to Brock Nelson. The goal of this program is to allow smaller auditors to gain experience and credibility by working on projects that would usually be reserved only for MD's very trusted. Both auditors will work seperately to produce their reports. Ideally, the 'intern' report will be completed and posted first followed by the 'Senior' report. This will allow any potential flaws in the 'intern' report to be pointed out and discussed so that the new auditor may improve his or her skills. The SCS will be doing a full announcement of this program at a later date. I like this as a potential way to get more auditors into the secondary market - as we have seen with this launch the lack of can create some pretty big showstoppers in the secondary markets.
Roger Kiyosaki	Posted - 2009.05.11 21:53:00 - [256] Originally by: Ji Sama If you are on the reserve list, just send the isk to caleb, and he will send you the shares. There should be around 3200 shares left.. 200 mil ISK sent to Caleb. And confirming receipt of 400 shares.
Biruni Khan	Posted - 2009.05.12 01:54:00 - [257] Originally by: Biruni Khan Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Edited by: Caleb Ayrania on 11/05/2009 08:11:25 Confirming reservation of 1000 SHARES Biruni Khan Leaving 3500 SHARES. Thanks. ISK sent. Shares received.
Horatio von'Reel	Posted - 2009.05.12 06:30:00 - [258] Want to buy 1000 shares for 500 m.
Wishdokkta CEO Powersync	Posted - 2009.05.12 09:45:00 - [259] I would also like to invest. 500 for 250mill please.
Kouryusei	Posted - 2009.05.12 10:17:00 - [260] What's the minimum share ownership cap?

Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.12 11:34:00 - [261] No minimum.. Noting reservation, stocks are almost all gone. Audit is forthcoming asap. expecting the report from Brock Nelson soon(tm) - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.12 12:15:00 - [262] Just an update that I'll be finished with this likely tomorrow or day after. That is assuming these catalyst switches cooperate with this Nortel router.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.05.12 12:37:00 - [263] I'm just about done, just waiting to hear from other people who can verify some of the claims that Ji Sama made. Blueprint Store
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.12 13:13:00 - [264] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania No minimum.. Noting reservation, stocks are almost all gone. Audit is forthcoming asap. expecting the report from Brock Nelson soon(tm) minimum shares per investor are 100... ie. 500M also thanks to Brock and Kazzac for taking the time to do this. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Saehta	Posted - 2009.05.12 13:27:00 - [265] By my count there are 700 shares left, is this the case?
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.12 13:44:00 - [266] All SHARES are sold now. Hold further reservation till the current ones are transferred or cancelled. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.05.13 12:25:00 - [267] Task-Murkon Prime Industries IPO Audit Result Business Plan Analysis A: I went through TMPÆs market orders and wallet journal and there is a fair amount of activities leading me to believe that Ji Sama has a grasp on how to find something to trade and turn a profit. B: This plan involves making several investments in meta-gaming including EMMA, SCC, etc. IÆve contacted the maker of EMMA and havenÆt gotten a response at this time. C: Ji Sama has a good number of rigging skills that allows her to partake in research and production of Rigs. IÆve quickly looked at the cost of production and the market price of different rigs; I can say that with proper research and bargain hunting, Ji Sama can be successful in the production and sales of Rigs. For your information, IÆve used Jita prices and Eve Material Calculator with blueprint at a reasonable ME level. D: This plan involves heavy investment in secondary market. It has been uncovered that Ji Sama has an alt who is CEO of an known investment corporation. It may be relevant to mention if this alt corporation has any involvement in this particular plan. Character Analysis As part of Character Analysis, I went through Eve-search, corporate history and skill to verify that there is no scam attempts, questionable conducts, omitted information that may not have been included on the OP. Ji Sama One thing that curious very much about Ji Sama is her start date of playing Eve. Ji Sama is the oldest character, and presumably her first character. However, her creation state is July 2nd 2008. However, itÆs noted in her employment history that ôToxick Administrationö (Which was created by Ji Sama) was created little over an hour after her creation date. It brings up two points: First; how does a new player get funding to start a new corporation? Second; while new players can start out with Corporation Management skill, a new player wouldÆve spent the first hour trying to figure out how to play with the game and figure out how to start a new corporation, much less know how to start a new corporation. Ji SamaÆs response to that question was that she had another character prior to the creation of Ji Sama named Tox Brutor. This character has been deleted since, very little information is found about this character other than 2 posts. Other Alts Most of the alts are a member of TMP with the exception of Antiquarian and Childeric III, both of which are in different corporation. Besides those three characters, all other alts have no forum history, no employment history other than starter NPC corp and TMP. Antiquarian (Marketing Alt) Childeric III (Marketing Alt) Abdul Razzaq (Industrial Science Hauler Miner) CSO (Recon Alt) Tzu Sama (Recon Alt) S717 (Recon Alt) Chrotrud (Industrial Miner Science) TMP Industries (Security Alt) TMP Curator (Marketing Alt) Main Account (Bank Alt) TMP Paladin (Security Alt) TMP Primary (Bank Alt) Avendale (Marketing Alt) Avendale Amarrious (Marketing Alt) TGAOTU (Recon and Security Alt) Notable Information TMP IPO document has changed over time to have their POS operation moved to Ugly Toy Holdings. This will allow reduction of risk to investors in event of scams as well increasing liquid isk for TMP. I should point out that Ji Sama has made a statement that TMP has good standings with two mercenary corporations. I have spoken to the CEO for one of them and he has stated that her mercenary corporation has neither formal relationship nor standings with TMP. As for the other mercenary corp in which Ji Sama is a former member of, their CEO has not gotten back to me at this time. As I said before, TMP biggest risk in a war was the loss of their POS and that has since been transferred to Ugly Toy Holdings, the relevance of mercenary corporations no longer applies. Blueprint Store
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.05.13 12:26:00 - [268] Final Thought It has been brought up that Caleb as a broker in this IPO might bring additional risk to this IPO, IÆve brought that up with Caleb and in response, he is willing to do so under the condition that a more experienced auditor carries the audit out. It's true that with Ji Sama bringing in Caleb as a broker with little announcement might be questionable but it's already happened and not much we can do about it, the only thing we can do is verify if Caleb can be trusted to some extend. Ji Sama has quirky personality and has a good grasp of how trade and manufacturing works in Eve Online, I have no doubt that she is capable of carrying out the stated business plan. As a reference, IÆve used the following program to verify information Eve Online û Verify Employment History Evemon û Verify Skill EveTycoon û Verify trade history Blueprint Store
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.13 12:43:00 - [269] reserved! Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.13 14:07:00 - [270] Originally by: Brock Nelson TMP IPO document has changed over time to have their POS operation moved to Ugly Toy Holdings. This will allow reduction of risk to investors in event of scams... ...As I said before, TMP biggest risk in a war was the loss of their POS and that has since been transferred to Ugly Toy Holdings, the relevance of mercenary corporations no longer applies. In the interest of accuracy: Ji Sama's POS is currently held by Ugly Toys. Ugly Toys Holdings is a different, but related, corp which was created for my IPO and now administrates my new bond. The two should not be confused. I guarentee that Ji Sama's POS assets will be returned to him in good order at the appropriate time. I take responsibility for any risks that those assets are exposed to until that time and will cover any losses. I would expect that the list of mercenaries and allies I have at my disposal, should the need arise, would satisfy most knowledgeable investors. However, since the risk is monetary rather than territorial I see no reason to expose my relationships with these parties to public scrutiny when my word and personal worth should be sufficient. The POS has not been anchored in a new location as yet. Further communication with Ji Sama is required before that can go ahead and I have not bothered him further with these matters because I am sure he has more pressing things on his mind. I am in no rush, as long as Ji Sama is not.

Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.13 14:09:00 - [271] I'll be finishing up my end here by COB today assuming no one bothers me during my lunch hour.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.13 14:13:00 - [272] Edited by: Ji Sama on 13/05/2009 14:36:48 Thank you Bobby and Kazzac. @ Bobby... I have a place for the POS, just want this audit business to be over before giving you the go to set it up :D EDIT: Also regarding the POS, i only took the labs down, and invested in a new control tower. So we still have a low sec pos somewhere out there.. However should it be lost, IPO funds will not be used to replace it, ie. it is not a liability to the investors... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.13 14:44:00 - [273] Originally by: Ji Sama Also regarding the POS, i only took the labs down, and invested in a new control tower. So we still have a low sec pos somewhere out there.. However should it be lost, IPO funds will not be used to replace it, ie. it is not a liability to the investors... Thanks for the clarification Ji. This brings me to a related point that I could not mention until this fact was made public: Brock, how did you not notice the low-sec POS when performing your audit?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.13 15:46:00 - [274] You can find my audit report here. This is also the half official roll out of evefas
brutoid Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.13 16:08:00 - [275] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria You can find my audit report here. This is also the half official roll out of evefas Thanks, looks to be a great format.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.13 16:11:00 - [276] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria You can find my audit report here. This is also the half official roll out of evefas thank you for that, will comment shortly. Good work Kazzac. I want to thank escpecially Caleb and SCS for making this happen. I also wanna thank Shar, Keyser & Brock for helping me out here. And lastly to the man of the day, once more thank you Kazzac for stepping in and getting the job done. Expenses associated with IPO launch 1.5B ISK First dividend payment on 8th of june. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.13 18:18:00 - [277] Answering Kazzacs concerns in this post. Overall my sales ie. profit has been smaller this week because of my vacation. Also since ive used some funds to secure this IPO, these havent been availeble to me. In regards to the time barrier, i am aware that i cant keep on scalling forever, i am also aware that i have reached with this IPO my maximum capacity. In regards to investment in the secondary market, i am aware of the fact that this is a liability, and i will make sure that any losses wont effect the investors. I will also try to minimize the dependency on secondary market. In regards to management fees and apanache. There currently are no plans that i should recieve any payment for this. When this whole thing closes down, i will ofcourse take a piece of the pie. But that piece will only be taken after all investors have been bought out. In case of a burn out or the posibility that i am hit by a bus etc. There are more than enough assets to cover the buy back of all shares, within a reasonable timeframe... (not more than 1 week imo) Also with the securities in place, there should really not be any problem. Biggest risk is still me running with the ISK. This IPO is now launched. Buy back at 95% is active. Next economic report scheduled for the 28th of may. Next general report scheduled for 2nd of june. Dividend scheduled for the 8th of june. Lastly i want to thank all the investors for being patient and very supportive. I wont let you down. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.13 19:31:00 - [278] 42600 SHARES distributed. Reservations pending processing 6400 Isk transfered to Ji Sama totalling 21.3 Billion Any SHARES left will be for sale at 100% or highest bidder when reservation list is concluded. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.13 19:33:00 - [279] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania 42600 SHARES distributed. Reservations pending processing 6400 Isk transfered to Ji Sama totalling 21.3 Billion Any SHARES left will be for sale at 100% or highest bidder when reservation list is concluded. Confirming receipt of 21.3 Billion ISK Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ricdic Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.13 23:41:00 - [280] Let's talk about this a little bit: Quote: This plan involves heavy investment in secondary market. It has been uncovered that Ji Sama has an alt who is CEO of an known investment corporation. It may be relevant to mention if this alt corporation has any involvement in this particular plan. Quote: This was a big red flag IMHO, and while TMP is not propped up by these investments at all, there is a secondary risk because of this. Technically anything that could happen to this investment corporation can affect TMP as well. Something investors should weigh heavily. IÆll leave Ji Sama to explain this out in detail and any risk mitigation that has or will be taken. So according to the above, you are an alt of someone here who runs a public IPO/Bond already? How much is that bond valued at? Who is the character? I think previous bond/ipo history and listing of current operations is crucial and extremely important. I don't want to throw 30b at someone who already has an 80b bond here. So please advise, I don't think it's fair to keep something as integral as this hidden in a corner. How well does the other IPO/Bond perform? Are investors happy? Has it been meeting stated returns? Exceeding Returns? Is it secured? If so how much? It is quite disturbing seeing the lack of people on MD questioning these kinds of thing, most notably that investors aren't even asking the questions. Frankly I think these so called investors enjoy gambling more than they do investing. Nothing against Ji Sama here but we need to know what public operations you are currently running.

Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.14 01:22:00 - [281] Originally by: Ricdic Nothing against Ji Sama here but we need to know what public operations you are currently running. Agreed, and Im glad Ric pointed it out. I hate being the judge and jury and much rather prefer to just be the information presenter.
Lo Lightshard Insurrection Inc Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.14 02:10:00 - [282] Also, those funds were released pretty quickly. I'd guess investors would hope that "pending audit" means "pending a clean audit". Basically, the audit became a formality when Ji's mate had yo money? [IMA6E REMOVED]
Gabriel Virtus hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.14 02:39:00 - [283] I am sorry, but when did investors get a chance to decide if after the audit was complete, that we were alright with the funds being released. It seems a bit strange that "pending an audit" means as soon as the audit is done, funds will automatically be released and everything is fine. There were serious concerns raised in both of the audits and this might have changed the mind of some of the investors. You should still offer buyback for a week in order to make sure the shareholders were actually satisfied with the audit and alright for the funds to be released. So... many... mistakes. Having an undisclosed toon and investment corporation is a bit much. Having the investment corp and not releasing any information about said investment corp including previous offerings and investor testimonials is even more. Anyway, buyback should still be offered at full cost until the investors can judge whether the audit satisfied their problems with the IPO offering. -GV
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.05.14 03:29:00 - [284] Edited by: Brock Nelson on 14/05/2009 03:29:42 Blueprint Store
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2009.05.14 04:16:00 - [285] Well, no one should really be complaining about the funds being released IMO. None of you specified the circumstances behind the funds being released other than "pending audit" or some other such wording. Also, and this isn't a cut against Caleb as it could happen to anyone, but this is why I didn't understand the need to involve a broker or third party to hold the isk until the audit was done. Wait for the audit, look at audit, decide to transfer your isk or not transfer your isk based on audit results and the response to the audit. You guys totally went out of order for god knows why. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.05.14 04:17:00 - [286] Quote: So according to the above, you are an alt of someone here who runs a public IPO/Bond already? How much is that bond valued at? Who is the character? I think previous bond/ipo history and listing of current operations is crucial and extremely important. Given the fact that the all his alts are listed, shouldn't one be able to figure it out by oneself? It's a fact that Ji Sama is a main, so Ji Sama can't be an alt of a main. If it's NOT the case that the alt in question isn't listed there, then the auditor sure didn't do his job good enough at pointing that out. And I don't think that investment corporation == IPO/Bond. IPO's and bonds are specific to the secondary market and the market discussion forum especially. Quote: I don't want to throw 30b at someone who already has an 80b bond here. This comment had me a laughing a bit. You aren't going to throw 30bill at this anyways, especially seeing as the WHOLE IPO itself is valued at less than 25bill.
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2009.05.14 04:26:00 - [287] Originally by: LaVista Vista Quote: So according to the above, you are an alt of someone here who runs a public IPO/Bond already? How much is that bond valued at? Who is the character? I think previous bond/ipo history and listing of current operations is crucial and extremely important. Given the fact that the all his alts are listed, shouldn't one be able to figure it out by oneself? It's a fact that Ji Sama is a main, so Ji Sama can't be an alt of a main. If it's NOT the case that the alt in question isn't listed there, then the auditor sure didn't do his job good enough at pointing that out. And I don't think that investment corporation == IPO/Bond. IPO's and bonds are specific to the secondary market and the market discussion forum especially. Quote: I don't want to throw 30b at someone who already has an 80b bond here. This comment had me a laughing a bit. You aren't going to throw 30bill at this anyways, especially seeing as the WHOLE IPO itself is valued at less than 25bill. Maybe you two could get a room? Lots of back and forth lately, getting really old. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.14 13:06:00 - [288] There are no undisclosed main, Ji Sama is my main, you can only have one main character. The CEO in question was disclosed on page 1 aswell as in Calebs and Brocks reports. If any investors feel i have not been forthcomming with information regarding this IPO. They are free to exhange their shares at cost. i.e. 100% I have had nothing but support from my investors, i could not have wished for this IPO to have launched in any other way, i want to thank all who contributed with support and feedback. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.14 15:26:00 - [289] Just wanted a chance to explain why I released the funds as fast as I did. The reason for freezing the assets was to secure the investors for any scams or wrong numbers disclosed by Ji Sama initially. This was the security offered by the broker. Thus I ofc waited for the conclusive audit report, to see if there was any reasons for me not to release the funds. Since everything looked nice and no alarms where set of I opted to release the funds to TMP, so they could start working and not loose further earnings due to the lack of assets. The red flag raised was concerning Merotech, since this is an affiliate business of Ji Samas's I would ofc expect any cross comapny business to be posted if and when needed. As far as I was informed Merotech is for future endeavours in the secondary market, but with no noteworthy activity atm. In conclusion had there been a more valid reason to keep the funds frozen for investor buyback, ofc I would have kept that window open longer. I believe granting TMP the funds to start earning the money for the investors was a better choice. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.05.14 16:02:00 - [290] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Just wanted a chance to explain why I released the funds as fast as I did. The reason for freezing the assets was to secure the investors for any scams or wrong numbers disclosed by Ji Sama initially. This was the security offered by the broker. Thus I ofc waited for the conclusive audit report, to see if there was any reasons for me not to release the funds. Since everything looked nice and no alarms where set of I opted to release the funds to TMP, so they could start working and not loose further earnings due to the lack of assets. The red flag raised was concerning Merotech, since this is an affiliate business of Ji Samas's I would ofc expect any cross comapny business to be posted if and when needed. As far as I was informed Merotech is for future endeavours in the secondary market, but with no noteworthy activity atm. In conclusion had there been a more valid reason to keep the funds frozen for investor buyback, ofc I would have kept that window open longer. I believe granting TMP the funds to start earning the money for the investors was a better choice. Ultimately the issue here is the whole brokerage concept that you have embraced is a total waste of time offering no security and increased risk. Investors are not able to trust you based on reputation because you have not yet built one. Investors are not able to trust you due to any other security layer in your operation because there isn't one. Investors are not able to consider your service as working for them because you are clearly working for the IPO issuer and respond to their demands rather than those of the investors, if this was not the case then you would have asked for explicit confirmation from the investors prior to releasing the funds. Even if you performed the role of broker properly, then you would just add another delay into the process of getting funds from investor to investee once due dillegence was performed. Add all that to the fact that each investor could have held on to their isk until they were satisfied by the audit or any other concerns they may have had and then transferred this isk themselves... and you have a non-service adding an additional layer of liability to an endeavour that does not need it. You're welcome to develop a brokerage service, but you need to actually find a need that has to be filled and develop the reputation and skills required to fill it.

cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.05.14 16:37:00 - [291] If anyone only invests "pending audit" they should keep their cash. The OP can take reservations, pending audit, and once complete people can send their reservation money. What has the broker done in this case??? Someone of no rep has held cash, and after the audit immediately handed it over. I thought successful audit meant that the OP would first answer any questions arising from audit. Not in this case, just hand the cash over. Good luck to Ji Sama on this IPO but if any investors lose money you only have yourselves to blame on how you handled the IPO reservation process.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.14 17:45:00 - [292] This IPO have been rather victim to some unforeseen issues. The thing with developing a brokerage service is supposedly to streamline and speed up the process, and to make it possible for the issuer to save some time and work. I think that is rather obvious in the "service" part of the name. In addition it is supposed to add a level of security in case of a faulty offering, and a reason to suspect a scam or a lack of ability to generate the suggested profit and payouts. In this IPO the service have hammered into quite a few walls, walls that should not normally be an issue. Auditor problems being among the main problems. All that aside I see some rather interesting developments in the direction of the secondary markets with what is on the horizon. More streamlined services and consulting options. SCS and EVE-FAS, and ofc the already existing line of parties, dbank, ebank, real time exchange etc. With the coming ebank exchange service all these different aspects will have the possibility to bring a lot of interesting new opertunities and business to the New Eden Economy. That is my personal conclusion to this bumpy IPO ride. I hope I am not the only one with such naive eyes on the events. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Bonhomme Carnaval	Posted - 2009.05.14 19:05:00 - [293] Edited by: Bonhomme Carnaval on 14/05/2009 19:11:26 Edited by: Bonhomme Carnaval on 14/05/2009 19:09:33 Originally by: cosmoray If anyone only invests "pending audit" they should keep their cash. The OP can take reservations, pending audit, and once complete people can send their reservation money. What has the broker done in this case??? Someone of no rep has held cash, and after the audit immediately handed it over. I thought successful audit meant that the OP would first answer any questions arising from audit. Not in this case, just hand the cash over. Good luck to Ji Sama on this IPO but if any investors lose money you only have yourselves to blame on how you handled the IPO reservation process. I hope you're talking about the investors being to blame, not the IPO handlers (note that I agree Caleb seemed to be pretty much unnecessary in this whole thing). On the other hand, here are two meaningful paragraphs where the second is made pretty solid by the first. Originally by: Ji Sama If any investors feel i have not been forthcomming with information regarding this IPO. They are free to exhange their shares at cost. i.e. 100% I have had nothing but support from my investors I never thought someone who tried to launch a 1 trillion ISK IPO could be legit but hey, what do you know... I think if this was a scam we'd know about it now. Kudos to Ji for doing something about the problems that come up instead of denying them or apologizing uselessly like some would do. (reffering to the 100% buyback offer for unsatisfied investors).
Alex555	Posted - 2009.05.14 20:13:00 - [294] Edited by: Alex555 on 14/05/2009 20:14:42 Sorry for being dumb, but IÆve covered 10 pages and still got no idea what are u guys planning to do with isks. Now seriously What is this "Our marketing plan is based on more than 1 year of market research and analysis" or this "Our innovation long term plan is to expand the corporation into many branches; these branches are focused on meta-gaming." What does the phrase - "meta-gaming" - suppose to mean? Really, I didn't get it Then u say something about R&D. That's more or less clear for me. And then in the end u have got me with this - "Our investment plan is easy to understand. We simply invest in the secondary market and the revenue that get us is an extra profit to the corp". Why have I read all above written if your plan was about to be the simpliest in eve universe :). One more serious thing now :) What are the guarantees for return of investments? There are a lot of scam on IPO market right now. And what would happen if u experience failure with your investments. What is the main aim of this IPO? Create a new product? Or in the end of the first month u say that sorry guys I was wrong with my calculation and I am ready to buyback all your shares at 95%. Pretty cool tbh. It makes 1,25 of pure profit for simply doing nothing. Do not get me too personal, but I was just trying to analyze your IPO. And frankly speaking I didn't get how u would repay investors 100% + dividends. Due to the fact that u r not going to produce/create anything. Buy high/sell low is a great thing, but I guess it is a bit hard to base IPO on that
Bonhomme Carnaval	Posted - 2009.05.14 20:37:00 - [295] Edited by: Bonhomme Carnaval on 14/05/2009 20:37:53 Originally by: Alex555 Buy high/sell low is a great thing, but I guess it is a bit hard to base IPO on that I agree that buying high and selling low is not profitable enough to pay the investment + dividends + reasonable profit. (now I understand why some people try to trade and give up after losing their starting capital )
Gabriel Virtus hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.14 22:31:00 - [296] Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 14/05/2009 22:36:02 Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Well, no one should really be complaining about the funds being released IMO. None of you specified the circumstances behind the funds being released other than "pending audit" or some other such wording. Also, and this isn't a cut against Caleb as it could happen to anyone, but this is why I didn't understand the need to involve a broker or third party to hold the isk until the audit was done. Wait for the audit, look at audit, decide to transfer your isk or not transfer your isk based on audit results and the response to the audit. You guys totally went out of order for god knows why. Under the same logic, the money should be released no matter what once there is an audit performed... any audit, by anyone... and even if the audit returned saying that a scam was likey. I think it is reasonable to assume that when someone says "pending an audit" they mean pending a satisfactory audit by a trusted member of the MD community. Under this circumstance, with a broker involved ( I do not agree that the broker added any sort of insurance and in fact increased the risk two-fold), the broker should have asked for the approval of the investors to release funds to the IPO. The reservations should have just kept their money until the IPO was actually going online. I am not trying to insult Caleb or Ji, I just think the broker was done by someone clearly on the side of the IPO offerer and provided no additional security. I think the 100% buyback that Ji offered for unhappy investors a couple of posts ago was all that needed to eliminate this concern. -GV edit: I cant spell for ****
Ricdic Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.15 00:55:00 - [297] Ok main things to learn from this: 1) The broker option added an extra layer of risk with no real benefit 2) Sending funds after completion of audit without conditions imposed is an issue (would have been avoided anyway if number 1 wasn't in use) 3) The investment corporation probably should have been listed or at least clarified. From speaking with LaVista it seems it's just a private investment amongst friends. Had this been clarified (either in audit or prior) I wouldn't have requested all that extra information. I thought it was a regular public operation Meredian? was running on. 4) Audit Delays caused confusion however were unavoidable. A few other things Now this could have failed spectacularly. Current investors need to count their lucky stars. This could have easily backfired on a few of the points above and all your cash could have been lost. You were all lucky that Ji Sama and Caleb seem to be legitimate. I am glad it all worked out but it needs to be stressed that this cannot become the standard as it can be abused heavily. LV contacted me on MSN asking why I am trolling this thread. It's not trolling, it is me wanting to make sure the standard protocols are not bypassed as that sets precedent and always leads up to a scam.
Jadun	Posted - 2009.05.15 01:33:00 - [298] Originally by: Ricdic Ok main things to learn from this: 1) The broker option added an extra layer of risk with no real benefit 2) Sending funds after completion of audit without conditions imposed is an issue (would have been avoided anyway if number 1 wasn't in use) 3) The investment corporation probably should have been listed or at least clarified. From speaking with LaVista it seems it's just a private investment amongst friends. Had this been clarified (either in audit or prior) I wouldn't have requested all that extra information. I thought it was a regular public operation Meredian? was running on. 4) Audit Delays caused confusion however were unavoidable. A few other things Now this could have failed spectacularly. Current investors need to count their lucky stars. This could have easily backfired on a few of the points above and all your cash could have been lost. You were all lucky that Ji Sama and Caleb seem to be legitimate. I am glad it all worked out but it needs to be stressed that this cannot become the standard as it can be abused heavily. LV contacted me on MSN asking why I am trolling this thread. It's not trolling, it is me wanting to make sure the standard protocols are not bypassed as that sets precedent and always leads up to a scam. While reading this. A Pic of a Singing Sock Puppet jumped into my mind. 1. Donot see it. 2. What conditions would you apply???? 3. Up to Ji me thinks 4. The sky is Blue. come on Ricdi gime more. Explain 42. Any IPO can fail. I count sheep before going to bed. does that count also? There is always risk in isk changing hands that 1 party will scram. I am pretty sure that Caleb + Ji seem to be playing eve. Also I am very sure that there will never be a standart in eve. As why I wasted my time posting this. I am all for setting the precedent of joining a good plan. Used to watch A-TEAM on rainy afternoons. If I can find a good IPO it always leads up to a Investment P.S. Using words like never + always will always find a way to bite you in the *. P.s. Any Investment could be a scam, if you cannot affort to lose isk do not invest.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.05.15 01:45:00 - [299] 1. Caleb runs with the isk 2. The condition set by some investors that the isk were to be sent after audit is completed. The audited revealed some questionable things but it was sent regardless. 3. Shouldn't be up to Ji, its not his money Blueprint Store
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.15 03:00:00 - [300] Ok getting a bit tired of the Caleb scammer plug ... If anyone had done a search on me the mere age and amount of time and the content of posts should be enough to show that I am not the liability here. I might have been away a while, and true the account might have been taken over by someone else, but could we get off that claim soon? I offered Ji Sama what little rep(memory) I had to avoid the rather harsh climate in here, and initially I had no idea if Ji was actually a scammer, so I found the broker idea more than just an addition of risk, but rather a way to help both Ji Sama and in case he was not legit help the community of investors. Why this is being called a flawed system I dont understand. In any case just because I went on a break dont make me a new kid, and as far as I see it there was no sign saying new ideas couldnt be added to the MD and secondary market. Oh and back WAY BACK WHEN .. I actually was part of some of the first successful secondary market businesses Bazaar (non scc loot shop, and related projects) Not that it means much any more, but calling me newcomer and potential scammer is getting on my nerves, especially considering some of the things I have added and worked on the last 5-6 months. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread

Selina Candor Chernobyl Trading Corporation	Posted - 2009.05.15 03:50:00 - [301] Thanks for the comments on what transpired guys. Was going to post a report card yesterday but was too tired after work. So here is a report card summarising what SCS did, right and wrong. -------------------- What Went Wrong ---------- 1) Brokerage system I have my personal reservations against this system. Among other things, the brokerage system managed to convince many investors to send their isk to Caleb before a satisfactory audit had been completed. Had it been anyone else, the chances of a tag-team scam would have been sky high. 2) ISK transferred to IPO manager once audit had been completed. Not after it had been reviewed. Once both audit reports had been published, the ISK was quickly wired to Ji. This after Kazzac's report highlighted a red flag. I believe the SCS was too hasty in sending the ISK to Ji once the report had been published. Although most investors had not raised any objections, the fact remained that the ISK had already been transferred; any objections raised now would have been moot. 3) SCS was not proactive in seeking additional Auditor support. After Shar was unable to complete the IPO audit, the IPO languished in a state of limbo for several days before Kazzac was brought onboard. This in spite of an offer from Kazzac himself to work on the audit. API keys were finally transferred sometime on Sunday and the audit was completed within a few days. A big thanks goes out to Kazzac for quickly finishing the audit, even thought I believe he was very busy the following week. As an IPO service provider, SCS should have been more proactive in seeking additional auditors for the IPO and not after much prodding, both internal and external. Will not be touching on the investment arm issue as that falls under the Auditor's field of work. What Went Right ---------- 1) Launch of the Intern Auditor Program One of the few bright spots in this launch, the SCS managed to bring Brock on as an 'intern' auditor. This program should be able to help address the problem of there not being enough auditors in MD. 2) Ji's 100% buyback offer I'm of the opinion that this was one of the reasons we didn't see too many people abandoning the IPO. However it comes down to the fact that ji shouldnt have been offering a buyback as the ISK really should not have already been transferred. Which leads back to point 1 of WWW. 3) That the IPO launched at all. In spite of all the problems encountered, the IPO didn't die before it was even in operation. I mark this as a plus for Ji and am confident it will carry over into his conduct during the IPO's run. -------------------- And thus ends my report card on the SCS's activities for this launch. Theres plenty of room for improvement. Alot of it. Apologies for the rambling nature of some of the points. Now I need to get myself some coffee.
Indy Indy	Posted - 2009.05.15 04:42:00 - [302] Being one of the many investors (albiet a small one) in this venture I felt I had a right to voice my opinions on the matters at hand. I posted something similair to this quite a few pages back but I feel it's important to say it again. While this IPO has had many risks and flaws pointed out, I think it is important to point out that Ji has done an excellent job trying to mitigate and eliminate risks. While I personally did not mind my isk being transfered right away I can understand why some others may have been concerned. I would not have invested at all had I not found both Caleb and Ji to be up front and honest to begin with. A large portion of the investors have talked to both Caleb and Ji in the SCC lounge and I think that has added a small layer of trust (deserved or not) and it allowed all of us to guage both of them before making a decision. All IPO's have some risked involved and the fact that Ji has showed some thick skin and a level of dedication to the launch tells me either that my isk is in good hands or Ji just pulled a great scam (which I seriously doubt is the case). Anyway that is just my two cents for what it is worth.
Alex555	Posted - 2009.05.15 06:11:00 - [303] Btw I have a question to everyone Why do y'll think that amount of MD forum posts may say whether a person is going to scam or not? Seriously ain't it a bit naive? Smart talk doesn't generate any cashflow
Mme Pinkerton Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.15 06:44:00 - [304] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania I offered Ji Sama what little rep(memory) I had to avoid the rather harsh climate in here, and initially I had no idea if Ji was actually a scammer, so I found the broker idea more than just an addition of risk, but rather a way to help both Ji Sama and in case he was not legit help the community of investors. I feel somewhat dumb for having to ask this, but how does the brokerage system help investors? without brokerage: IPO announcement -> reservations -> audit -> money transferred by investors with brokerage: IPO announcement -> reservations -> money transferred by investors -> audit -> money transferred by broker Obviously it is of benefit for the investment manager as he gets the complete funding more or less instantly after the (successfully) completed audit instead of having to wait for the money to trickle in & he saves some accounting work which has been shifted towards the broker - obviously it is of benefit for the broker who gets some days of interest on the transferred money - but how exactly does this system benefit the actual investors (who lose out on interest)? To me this looks like the investors pay for some extra convenience of the IPO manager.
Brett Frost Caldari Frost Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.15 07:50:00 - [305] Originally by: Mme Pinkerton I feel somewhat dumb for having to ask this, but how does the brokerage system help investors? without brokerage: IPO announcement -> reservations -> audit -> money transferred by investors with brokerage: IPO announcement -> reservations -> money transferred by investors -> audit -> money transferred by broker Obviously it is of benefit for the investment manager as he gets the complete funding more or less instantly after the (successfully) completed audit instead of having to wait for the money to trickle in & he saves some accounting work which has been shifted towards the broker - obviously it is of benefit for the broker who gets some days of interest on the transferred money - but how exactly does this system benefit the actual investors (who lose out on interest)? To me this looks like the investors pay for some extra convenience of the IPO manager. In this specific case, because of delays surrounding the audit that were not the fault of Ji Sama, some of us that invested smaller sums chose to use the broker to get the transaction out of the way, accepting increased risk in the process. In most cases, there would be no benefit to using a broker.
EVEHelpisSeriousBusiness	Posted - 2009.05.15 08:39:00 - [306] To be honest the broker basically inserted himself into a pre-existing deal in order to pad his own reputation. That's cool but why are investors risking their money to build someone else's rep? In a perfect world Caleb should be paying money to be involved in this, rather than taking a fee.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.15 08:45:00 - [307] Thank you for that report Selina. I agree with all your conclusions, but i am confident that the SCS will prevail. Thank you for being a part of this, and i actually think i forgot to thank you in my final statement :( (that sucks) Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.15 08:46:00 - [308] Originally by: EVEHel**eriousBusiness To be honest the broker basically inserted himself into a pre-existing deal in order to pad his own reputation. That's cool but why are investors risking their money to build someone else's rep? In a perfect world Caleb should be paying money to be involved in this, rather than taking a fee. haha, the way you put it... touche.... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.05.15 09:21:00 - [309] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/05/2009 09:24:28 11 pages, FFS, give him the isk already (in advance for everything he'll ever ask for) and put this thread to rest. Black Sun Empire
Maxwell Terallis	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:50:00 - [310] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/05/2009 09:24:28 11 pages, FFS, give him the isk already (in advance for everything he'll ever ask for) and put this thread to rest. That's just it.... This IPO has launched. It's done. Ji has the isk, the investors have their shares. I'm not sure why people continue to criticize and analyze when it's finished. Final thoughts are great, but continuing to debate when the IPO has finished is not producing anything constructive toward this IPO. If people wish to continue the debates of the right / wrong ways to handle an IPO, a new thread would serve that purpose instead of this one.

YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.05.15 23:16:00 - [311] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/05/2009 23:16:15 Originally by: Maxwell Terallis Originally by: Yougotripped 11 pages, FFS, give him the isk already (in advance for everything he'll ever ask for) and put this thread to rest. That's just it.... This IPO has launched. It's done. Ji has the isk, the investors have their shares. Not quite. Given the focus of the IPO and the high return, I trust the auditor will retain possession of those API keys and validate future monthly reports... for fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering... and premature burnout leads to Ponzi schemes. Black Sun Empire
EVEHelpisSeriousBusiness	Posted - 2009.05.16 00:04:00 - [312] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/05/2009 23:16:15 Originally by: Maxwell Terallis Originally by: Yougotripped 11 pages, FFS, give him the isk already (in advance for everything he'll ever ask for) and put this thread to rest. That's just it.... This IPO has launched. It's done. Ji has the isk, the investors have their shares. Not quite. Given the focus of the IPO and the high return, I trust the auditor will retain possession of those API keys and validate future monthly reports... for fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering... and premature burnout leads to Ponzi schemes. Don't you mean: premature burnout leads to a "second round of funding" ?
Maxwell Terallis	Posted - 2009.05.16 00:45:00 - [313] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/05/2009 23:16:15 Originally by: Maxwell Terallis Originally by: Yougotripped 11 pages, FFS, give him the isk already (in advance for everything he'll ever ask for) and put this thread to rest. That's just it.... This IPO has launched. It's done. Ji has the isk, the investors have their shares. Not quite. Given the focus of the IPO and the high return, I trust the auditor will retain possession of those API keys and validate future monthly reports... for fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering... and premature burnout leads to Ponzi schemes. Sure, I don't see any issue with that. However, this has nothing to do with the constant deconstruction of the IPO on this thread. That part is done, and no amount of bickering will change what has happened. I encourage those who believe there were mistakes made in this IPO to address those concerns in a new thread, directed at future IPOs, with references to this one in the hopes of avoiding any issues in the future.
Ricdic Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.16 01:34:00 - [314] Agreed with Maxwell. What's done is done. Let's just hope we learn from it in the future.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.16 02:45:00 - [315] Originally by: YouGotRipped Not quite. Given the focus of the IPO and the high return, I trust the auditor will retain possession of those API keys and validate future monthly reports... for fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering... and premature burnout leads to Ponzi schemes. Every person I've ever audited has their own group in my EMMA installs. (You can imagine the size of that damn database) If the key remains live I'll keep pulling data and just keep it to myself until its needed for whatever reason.
Pixie Rollins	Posted - 2009.05.17 04:10:00 - [316] Originally by: Alex555 Edited by: Alex555 on 14/05/2009 20:14:42 Sorry for being dumb, but IÆve covered 10 pages and still got no idea what are u guys planning to do with isks. Now seriously What is this "Our marketing plan is based on more than 1 year of market research and analysis" or this "Our innovation long term plan is to expand the corporation into many branches; these branches are focused on meta-gaming." What does the phrase - "meta-gaming" - suppose to mean? Really, I didn't get it Then u say something about R&D. That's more or less clear for me. And then in the end u have got me with this - "Our investment plan is easy to understand. We simply invest in the secondary market and the revenue that get us is an extra profit to the corp". Why have I read all above written if your plan was about to be the simpliest in eve universe :). One more serious thing now :) What are the guarantees for return of investments? There are a lot of scam on IPO market right now. And what would happen if u experience failure with your investments. What is the main aim of this IPO? Create a new product? Or in the end of the first month u say that sorry guys I was wrong with my calculation and I am ready to buyback all your shares at 95%. Pretty cool tbh. It makes 1,25 of pure profit for simply doing nothing. Do not get me too personal, but I was just trying to analyze your IPO. And frankly speaking I didn't get how u would repay investors 100% + dividends. Due to the fact that u r not going to produce/create anything. Buy high/sell low is a great thing, but I guess it is a bit hard to base IPO on that Thats exactly what I was saying on page 2 This IPO has no clear purpose beyond taking investors money, no coherent business plan, and it was handled rather badly.The security provided by Bad Bobby and the audit may relieve some fraud risk, but ignores the risk of losing money due to bad business decisions.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.05.17 04:31:00 - [317] Whats not clear about the following plan: A: Market trading B: Basically investment in tools that helps the game C: Production D: Investment Blueprint Store
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.17 08:28:00 - [318] Edited by: Ji Sama on 17/05/2009 08:30:06 Well i dont see the problem Alek and Pixxie point out. But i will try to explain the plan. Please respect that this IPO is launched. You can always start a new thread that discuss BP's and IPO's in general. I have a shop. This shop sells oranges, apples and bananas! But since these things arent always in season i need more capital, so i dont have to sell apples and bananas when oranges are in season. I also heard that kiwis and carrots are a nice market, so i also want to get into that market. There are other players that also have shops, they have tools that makes it easier for my shop to sell oranges, so i take a small part of my capital and invest into this shop! Its also good business to build your own oranges, and make research into how you can build these oranges so you save time and capital building these oranges. Lastly, there are alot of other shops dealing in fruits and vegetables. Sometimes they offer a return that competes with my own return, and therefor its lucrative to invest in these shops. again a small part of all the capital! Most if not almost all will go into buying fruits and vegetables at a very low price, and then sell at a very high price, when the market is mature for it. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ricdics Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.17 09:13:00 - [319] Does part of the above say you will be giving some money to other people to spend? If they scam, will you cover the loss?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.05.17 10:07:00 - [320] Originally by: Ricdics Does part of the above say you will be giving some money to other people to spend? If they scam, will you cover the loss? Last time I checked, the main difference between an IPO and a bond, is following: Bond(Debt financing): - Fixed rate - Investors always gets their principle back in full - No ownership in the corporation IPO(Corporation ownership): - Variable rate - Shared risk - Partial ownership in the corporation In the IPO plan, it's clearly stated that you invest into a corporation, who also invests and stuff. If it's a corporation, it's by definition a set of people, not just a person. So don't be surprised that he will be giving ISK for others to spend. I'm not saying that Ji Sama won't actually cover any loss. However let it be clear that it's not something that HAS to be done.

Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.17 10:46:00 - [321] Thank you Lavista... I just have one thing to add.. /startquote TMP Industries will cover any losses associated with internal/external scamming, theft or assets/capital lost to investments that defaults for whatever reason that might be. /endquote Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Pixie Rollins	Posted - 2009.05.18 21:11:00 - [322] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Ricdics Does part of the above say you will be giving some money to other people to spend? If they scam, will you cover the loss? Last time I checked, the main difference between an IPO and a bond, is following: Bond(Debt financing): - Fixed rate - Investors always gets their principle back in full - No ownership in the corporation False! Debt holders get a priority over shareholder for the remaining capital, but very often they take heavy losses. For example,bond holders ore owed 100$ when a company goes bankrupt,and the company has only 50$ in assets. In that case bondholders lose 50% on their investment and shareholders are wiped out.
Pixie Rollins	Posted - 2009.05.18 21:23:00 - [323] Originally by: Ji Sama I have a shop. This shop sells oranges, apples and bananas! Well Ji, now that you talk in apples and oranges your business plan is crystal clear. While my criticism of your IPO may be construed as trolling, it carries the merit of being (almost) the sole criticism of your vacuous business plan because your IPO sets a very low bar in terms of communicating to investors what you are planning to do with their money. But you are not the problem here, Ji Sama, the investors are. If every investment decision must evaluate potential risk vs. reward, your investors could not perform due diligence simply because your business plan does not provide them with the necessary information. For the record, letÆs divide the risk of your IPO into two broad categories: 1.Risk of fraud û over all I think you covered that risk very well; it has been discussed in length so I wonÆt elaborate. 2.Market risk û this is the risk that despite youÆre best efforts, and without fraud, investors lose on their investments due to market operations. You have not addressed this risk at all; indeed it looks as if you are not even aware of it. When an IPO is concentrated around industry and manufacturing, investors can make an educated guess about projected earning, because prices of raw materials and finished goods are known, as well as game mechanics controlling the efficiency and rate of production. The problem with your IPO is that it is heavily concentrated in trading and investment û in which in games skills have very little bearing, and returns are extremely volatile. Investment in meta-gaming items is even harder to evaluate. Consequently, investors are totally in the dark about what kind of risk they are taking vs. their expected rewards. You could have alleviated some of the uncertainty by providing some meaningful information about your past performance. Keyword: meaningful. Ad hoc numbers 10-1000% profit margin are meaningless. After one year of market research, you should be able to provide some concrete numbers û because if you donÆt have numbers than you didnÆt do market research. Instead, you explanation was ôbuying low and selling highö - which is usually the response reserved for noobs asking how to trade on the MD forums.Ironically, your quip about oranges and bananas was more detailed than the information you let up on your trading business.
Pixie Rollins	Posted - 2009.05.18 21:27:00 - [324] Dear investors, here are just some of the questions you should have asked: 1.If trading in EVE is widely regarded as a PVP activity, why are you volunteering to finance someone elseÆs pvp activity? ShouldnÆt your rate of return be considerably higher than a similar investment in a manufacturing operation? (Assuming that manufacturing is analogues to pve because itÆs less risky). I think the appropriate rate is the rate you would ask when loaning the capital for a vagabond to a pirate. 2. What is the rational behind an IPO in the first place? If a trader has a 10-1000% margin (should I assume a 500% margin on average?) than he should be able to double his capital every so often (again, canÆt say how often because Ji-Sama doesnÆt know his turn over rate). If thatÆs the case than why does he need investorÆs capital when organic growth should be enough? 3.Ji ûSamaÆs reluctance to release meaningful information about his past performance - at least some kind of financial metric that indicate if performance is good or bad û suggests that he is not has not collected this information for himself. Again, nothing wrong with that if you are any Joe Blow; but when you are launching an IPO you need to show higher standards. 4.Why invest in a blackbox without solid proof that it works? 5.Does Ji-Sama provide investors with any thing they canÆt do themselves? With respect to investments in EMMA and other meta-gaming items, the answer is a resounding NO. Investors could have just buy EMMA bonds themselves and save the management fee. Not to mention that investing in Ji Sama is riskier than investing in EMMA.With respect to trading, Ji-Sama can prove that he is doing some kind bookkeeping and numerical analysis by posting images of spreadsheets - if he can. Ji Sama, I am not coming out with this criticism because I wish you any ill. I do it because you investors showed a complete lack of motivation or ability to asses your IPO from a risk/return point of view.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.18 21:43:00 - [325] reserved Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Pixie Rollins	Posted - 2009.05.18 23:01:00 - [326] Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 18/05/2009 22:30:30 I donÆt think we will reach an agreement to be honest. (Might be because im tired :P) But I will try to answer your concerns in full. Ji Sama, we can agree to disagree, i have no problem with that. My questions were directed at the investors and not at you. My beef is with them for not being more critical of your IPO - performing due diligence is the investors prerogative. If you benefited from their cluelessness, all the power for you. I am glad you hired an accountant, it shows that you are already improving. With regard to my interpretation of your numbers - you really didn't give much to interpret: Originally by: Ji Sama Business Plan .a Our marketing plan is based on more than 1 year of market research and analysis. We buy low, sell high. Stockpile on assets that doesnÆt loose value and in addition if possible have a chance to increase in value. (We do multi-region trading, thatÆs a lot of work, and sometimes its dangerous, but giving margins in the 100-1000%+ range) What exactly our niches are and what exactly we trade in cant be disclosed. But in general terms, we trade in ore, minerals, salvage, alloys, ice, gas, ships and modules. Of the total invested capital we plan to use the majority of the capital in this sector. (The majority being more than 50% i.e. 12B+) You could have given more information or produced a spreadsheet without revealing trade secretes, for example. But at the end it worked in your favor because you got your capital for much cheaper than the risk of your IPO. Credit due: the spreadsheet I linked belongs to Corestwo.
Professor Leech Transmetropolitan	Posted - 2009.05.18 23:56:00 - [327] Originally by: Pixie Rollins You could have given more information or produced a spreadsheet without revealing trade secretes, for example. But at the end it worked in your favor because you got your capital for much cheaper than the risk of your IPO. My understanding is that the accountant is producing a summary that you are requesting. Perhaps there is a communication issue here. Who can complain about receiving cheap capital. Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
Pixie Rollins	Posted - 2009.05.19 00:09:00 - [328] Originally by: Professor Leech Who can complain about receiving cheap capital. Receiving cheap capital is great. Providing it is not so great.
Professor Leech Transmetropolitan	Posted - 2009.05.19 00:18:00 - [329] Originally by: Pixie Rollins Originally by: Professor Leech Who can complain about receiving cheap capital. Receiving cheap capital is great. Providing it is not so great. That is the issue in md at the moment. Plenty of people with capital to invest but a lack of options. Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
Companion Qube	Posted - 2009.05.19 23:54:00 - [330] Confirming receipt of 1000 TMP shares via Caleb and transfer of 500M. @Ji: Don't Madoff me bro!

Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.20 08:26:00 - [331] Edited by: Ji Sama on 20/05/2009 08:27:55 Originally by: Companion Qube Confirming receipt of 1000 TMP shares via Caleb and transfer of 500M. @Ji: Don't Madoff me bro! Hi Qube... Hmm that Madoff fellow sounds like a nice guy though, he gave alot to charity :p EDIT: That being said, there is still around 2000 reserved but unpaid shares. These will be sold to highest bidder if they arent paid asap... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Gabriel Virtus hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.21 05:16:00 - [332] As I reread the IPO plan, and the AT LEAST 2 edits that have gone through on the part about buyback, I realize that in the event of a completely successful IPO and business, Ji Sama still has the ability to rebuy all the shares at 95% of value. At first, I thought this was an offer to investors that wanted to liquidate their shares early and should rightly suffer a penalty. He has built in a guaranteed profit for himself. I thought it was an offer for investors needing liquidity, but it is what he is absolutely going to buy back all his shares for... less than people paid for them in the first place. How does this possibly make any sort of sense? Best case scenario with a very successful business plan, Ji still makes 1.25B in profit built into the plan. Why do you keep editing the business plan an unknown amount of times? Why would you buyback shares after a successful business at a price lower than the initial investment? In the event of a closed IPO, all shares should be liquidated and all assets should be returned to share holders after debts are paid. You liquidate all assets belonging to TMP and payback debts and then split the rest to the shareholders. I can understand a penalty for those wanted to sell shares back to you, but why would you penalize an initial investment when YOU decide to liquidate shares? This is ridiculous, I am a new investor and have learned quite a bit after watching the rocky launching of this IPO and rather strange business plan and can honestly say that I regret investing in the first place. -GV
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.05.21 05:25:00 - [333] Linkage Ji hasn't made any changes to the buyback plan. If you didn't like that part to begin with, then why invest in it? Blueprint Store
Gabriel Virtus hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.21 07:20:00 - [334] Originally by: Brock Nelson Linkage Ji hasn't made any changes to the buyback plan. If you didn't like that part to begin with, then why invest in it? I am new to investing and I assumed that it was an offer to buyback shares from investors trying to get out before the IPO closes, etc. Not a 95% buyback plan that can be forced on investors at any point, including now and make everyone take a 5% loss. It was my mistake to not read more carefully, but still think this is rather odd feature to use even after a successful IPO. -GV
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.05.21 08:04:00 - [335] Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Originally by: Brock Nelson Linkage Ji hasn't made any changes to the buyback plan. If you didn't like that part to begin with, then why invest in it? I am new to investing and I assumed that it was an offer to buyback shares from investors trying to get out before the IPO closes, etc. Not a 95% buyback plan that can be forced on investors at any point, including now and make everyone take a 5% loss. It was my mistake to not read more carefully, but still think this is rather odd feature to use even after a successful IPO. -GV A 95% buyback is a nessescary evil. It yields several benefits. - Keeps people from investing and then selling their shares back straight after first payout. Keeps people invested rather than people only picking up shares right around payout days. - It makes sure that people are less likely to sell back, which could cause liquidity problem for the IPO
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.21 08:05:00 - [336] There is no problem. 95% Buyback is more than fair. There is no hidden profit in this for me. Considering a minimum of 7% return ie, 35K per share: you just need 1 dividend payment as an investor and your at 102% ie. 2% ROI But since i aint closing shop for atleast the first half year. And i expect this Joint Stock Venture to run for no less than a full year. There is more than an incetement for any investor. Not counting the fact, that i have just tripled your share value. But as stated, if you feel i havent been fourthcomming, just return your shares and you will be compensated in full... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Maxwell Terallis	Posted - 2009.05.22 20:10:00 - [337] Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Originally by: Brock Nelson Linkage Ji hasn't made any changes to the buyback plan. If you didn't like that part to begin with, then why invest in it? I am new to investing and I assumed that it was an offer to buyback shares from investors trying to get out before the IPO closes, etc. Not a 95% buyback plan that can be forced on investors at any point, including now and make everyone take a 5% loss. It was my mistake to not read more carefully, but still think this is rather odd feature to use even after a successful IPO. -GV Here is the line from the business plan: Quote: Fourth phase: TMP Industries offers buy back at 95% That says: "offers" buy back. Where are you getting Ji can "force" a buyback at any time on people? This is an opportunity for people to get out with minimal loss, if they believe this IPO is going to fail during the buyback period of the phases, which is right now. It isn't even physically possible for Ji to "force" people to sell back their shares. That's like me forcing you to give me your ship. You are in possession of the shares you purchased. The only way Ji is getting those back is if you transfer them over to him.
sherlock homes	Posted - 2009.05.24 03:32:00 - [338] I would be willing to invest. around 300mill to 400mill. I see this as a risk/reward. it seems ok. I can lose this amount of isk as i can easly get it back. the plan looks ok. we will see how it goes sherlock homes out.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.24 10:36:00 - [339] all shares are currently sold out, you would have to get in contact with a shareholder. current estimated share value is 1.35M per share... Quote: "Lecherito on Market Discussion: Though I have to go down on the record as saying that I'm convinced the majority of the MD community is ******ed"
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.06.02 21:08:00 - [340] Ji Sama made an announcement in the SCC lounge saying that a dividend report is soon coming out. This is the part that got me confused; She said that the NAV has tripled. How did it tripled? The IPO started out with 24.5 billion as per Ji Sama. The NAV was adjusted to reflect the addition of 50 billion in hard and soft asset from TMP. I asked Ji if TMP had issued shares for the 50 billion and she replied no. So, this transaction has effectively tripled the NAV. Ji Sama also told everyone in SCC lounge that the value of the shares is tied to the NAV. So, this change in how shares are valued has basically tripled everybody's investment. Ji has also said that the buyback price of shares will be at what the current value of the shares is as opposed to the 90% in the original IPO document. Now, I'm just looking out for Ji Sama here but when she buyback the shares at NAV value, she would effectively be out of 50 billion right? Blueprint Store

Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.06.02 21:16:00 - [341] First off.. TMP Industries is CURRENTLY offering buyback @ 95% ie. 475K per share. Its also stated that when this whole thing is over, i and perhaps other key persons will be taking an unspecified share of TMP Industries. But yes, if i dont take a piece of TMP Industries when it closes shop, i will effectively be out of 50B..... Quote: "Lecherito on Market Discussion: Though I have to go down on the record as saying that I'm convinced the majority of the MD community is ******ed"
Victoria Akmea Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.06.05 15:00:00 - [342] Edited by: Victoria Akmea on 05/06/2009 15:00:36 Logged on and found some flashy wallet. First dividend payout, methinks. May have missed one though. To the tune of 10.1% initial investment. Profits are flowing more than normal, me doth cry.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.06.05 15:26:00 - [343] dividends have been paid out a day in advance... enjoy :D Quote: "Lecherito on Market Discussion: Though I have to go down on the record as saying that I'm convinced the majority of the MD community is ******ed"
Marcus Baltar	Posted - 2009.06.05 17:43:00 - [344] Confirmation of payment (dividend) received; 2009.06.05 12:29, 12:34, 12:36 Total of 25,249,999.99 ISK received in wallet from three in-game dividend payments totalling 5,050,000,000 ISK. 500 Tash-Murkon Prime Industries shares (cost 500,000 ISK each) in my wallet confirms a 50,499.99 ISK dividend. This dividend means 100,000 shares are in existence. Total received to date (500,000 ISK IPO share value): ( 50,499.99 ISK dividend per share : 10.09% return ) -- --- -- DesuSigs
TastyTreat Fraternity of Obnoxious Lemmings	Posted - 2009.06.05 22:15:00 - [345] Confirming receipt of 37,874,999.99 isk in dividends for 750 shares.
Gabriel Virtus hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.06 03:39:00 - [346] Confirming receipt of 25,249,999.99 isk on 500 shares(250mil) or 10.09% dividend. Dividend was paid on 6/05/09 @ roughly 12:30 server time. Thanks Ji Sama and TMPI! Div paid ahead of schedule and above expected returns. -GV
Indy Indy	Posted - 2009.06.06 06:11:00 - [347] payment of dividend recieved better that expected return thanks!
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.06 07:41:00 - [348] Quote: In a perfect world Caleb should be paying money to be involved in this, rather than taking a fee Business is based on the premise the world is not perfect. Think about the implications of my above sentence...
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.06.07 04:56:00 - [349] My real life bank account says that I am.. so the ambiguity is complete.. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.06.25 13:01:00 - [350] This is a general service announcement brought to you by TMPI. Be advised: Lecherito is no longer affiliated in any way whatsoever with TMPI. His resignation takes effect later today. This will not have an effect on TMPI's NAV, ROI, ROA or REV. TMPI

TastyTreat Fraternity of Obnoxious Lemmings	Posted - 2009.07.05 22:51:00 - [351] Confirming receipt of two dividend payments of 13,211,625 isk totaling 26,423,250 isk for 750 shares. Any reason why there has been no word from Ji Sama concerning this month's dividends? Seems kind of odd for there to be no statement from the IPO manager when dividends are being disbursed. Still happy with the ROI so far, keep it up Ji!
Varo Jan Minmatar	Posted - 2009.07.06 00:11:00 - [352] Ji¦s on holiday RL at the moment. He must have escaped from the wife and kids long enough to disburse dividends.
TastyTreat Fraternity of Obnoxious Lemmings	Posted - 2009.07.06 00:13:00 - [353] Originally by: Varo Jan Ji¦s on holiday RL at the moment. He must have escaped from the wife and kids long enough to disburse dividends. Ah, thanks for the info... I must have missed the memo.
Marcus Baltar	Posted - 2009.07.06 18:37:00 - [354] Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Confirmation of payment (dividend) received; 2009.07.03 15:25, 15:26 Total of 17,615,500 ISK received in wallet, made by "Ji Sama" using 2 in-game dividend payments totalling 3,523,100,000 ISK. Using "Tash-Murkon Prime Industries" (ticker: T-M P) shares in my wallet confirms a 35,231 ISK (7.04%) dividend per share. This dividend means 100,000 shares are in existence. Total received since 2009.05.10 (link) (500,000 ISK per share value at share purchase date): ( 85,730.99 ISK per share : 17.14% return ). (This was the second (2nd) payment since 2009.05.10) Thanks. -- DesuSigs
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.07.11 15:29:00 - [355] I have been away on holiday; i had the choice between paying out late with an announcement, or paying out on time, without an announcement. i hope you understand the choice i took. confirming interest payment of 7.19% thank you for your patience. i promise you that reports are made, and are currently being made ready for disclosure! because of the sheer workload these reports generate, we have gone from monthly to quarterly reports.. again, thank you for you understanding and support.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.07 10:50:00 - [356] Dividends totalling 8.3% have been paid out today. Enjoy!
TastyTreat Fraternity of Obnoxious Lemmings	Posted - 2009.08.07 13:47:00 - [357] Confirming receipt 4 dividend payments. Thanks Ji!!!
Taram Caldar GK inc.	Posted - 2009.08.07 19:13:00 - [358] Confirming receipt of 4 dividend payments TYVM! Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.08 12:56:00 - [359] hmm, i think i made a calculation error, enjoy the 12.04% return :) i will calculate this against the next months dividend payment.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.08 13:00:00 - [360] Originally by: Ji Sama i will calculate this against the next months dividend payment. Aka. THIS WILL BE DEALT WITH.

Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.08 13:22:00 - [361] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Ji Sama i will calculate this against the next months dividend payment. Aka. THIS WILL BE DEALT WITH. QFT
Companion Qube	Posted - 2009.08.08 22:03:00 - [362] Originally by: Ji Sama hmm, i think i made a calculation error, enjoy the 12.04% return :) i will calculate this against the next months dividend payment. Heh, I wasn't going to say anything but I noticed it when the payout hit.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.08 22:18:00 - [363] Edited by: Ji Sama on 08/08/2009 22:18:43 I can understand that Qube :)
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys	Posted - 2009.08.24 10:06:00 - [364] Ji Sama has contacted me regarding release of collateral. I am told there is a shareholder vote in progress to approve this. The collateral I currently hold is... Originally by: Bad Bobby Ji Sama has transferred the following to me as collateral: 10x Drug Lab = 675m 2x Equipment Assembly Array = 108m 10x Rapid Equipment Assembly Array = 90m 2x Small Ship Assembly Array = 180m 5x Mobile Laboratory = 450m 1x Large Ship Assembly Array = 81m 1x Advanced Small Ship Assembly Array = 90m 1x Advanced Medium Ship Assembly Array = 90m 1x Advanced Large Ship Assembly Array = 90m 10x Experimental Laboratory = 1000m 1x Apocalypse Blueprint (unresearched original) = 1,012.5m 1x Caldari Control Tower = 360m 5x Advanced Mobile Laboratory = 750m Total value at NPC price = 4976.5m All of it is ready to be returned when I get the go-ahead. The Apoc BPO has received a few levels of ME research while it was in my care.
Keyser Kahn Stellar-Parallax Corp Legio Mithras	Posted - 2009.08.24 11:29:00 - [365] For the sake of completeness I underwrote this IPO to the tune of 3 billion to expire at the end of July. Sadly as I chose Manaplan of Dynasty to hold the isk it's return or otherwise appears to be a moot point. This is purely a FYI post as the subject of collateral return has been raised and I felt it appropriate to mention. o/
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.08.24 12:04:00 - [366] What happened to Ji Sama? - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.24 13:31:00 - [367] Nothing happened, i just need the securities for other investments. a vote will be placed later to today asking investors for the release of the securities. in regards to keyser; i have contacted manalapan, asking him to release you 3B sadly i have had no response.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.24 13:32:00 - [368] also, in the event, that manapalan doesnt the return the securities to keyser, TMPI will be forced to pay the 3B he lost out of its own pocket.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.24 13:40:00 - [369] the vote is now live for the next 24 hours!
Mikael Genexi Gallente Product Number 3	Posted - 2009.08.24 13:50:00 - [370] So to clarify, you are asking us to approve the release of the collateral from lockdown with this vote? Securities has other meanings in regards to the investment world.

Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.24 13:53:00 - [371] Edited by: Ji Sama on 24/08/2009 13:54:07 collateral was placed as security :) and yes, i am asking for the release of the collateral... edit: it isnt locked down, its hold by a 3rd party ie. bad bobby
Mikael Genexi Gallente Product Number 3	Posted - 2009.08.24 13:55:00 - [372] Thank you for the clarification.
Keyser Kahn Stellar-Parallax Corp Legio Mithras	Posted - 2009.08.24 14:53:00 - [373] Originally by: Ji Sama also, in the event, that manapalan doesnt the return the securities to keyser, TMPI will be forced to pay the 3B he lost out of its own pocket. Ji - that wasn't the point of the post, very decent of you, but wasn't the point - risk is an inherent part of the game and you can't always be right (well I know I can't ). o/
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.24 15:16:00 - [374] I know that it wasnt, but i feel obligated none the less, your post wasnt what made me make the choice, the choice was made along time ago, during our first conversations ingame, in regards to dbank...
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.25 15:14:00 - [375] The results are in. 91% voted Yes 9% voted No 0% Abstained. (for the record, Ji Sama didnt vote with her 51% majority) I will let this stand for another 24 hours before it takes effect! Please sound your voice, if you think the voting is bugged.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.26 13:46:00 - [376] The release of the collateral takes effect today, I will contact Bad Bobby later today for the transfer of the securities!
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys	Posted - 2009.08.26 15:07:00 - [377] Originally by: Ji Sama The results are in. 91% voted Yes 9% voted No 0% Abstained. (for the record, Ji Sama didnt vote with her 51% majority) I will let this stand for another 24 hours before it takes effect! Please sound your voice, if you think the voting is bugged. I will need a third party to verify this as I do not hold shares in the venture and therefore cannot see the vote myself. Can someone vaguely trustworthy who has isk in this please step forward?
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys	Posted - 2009.08.26 15:29:00 - [378] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Ji Sama The results are in. 91% voted Yes 9% voted No 0% Abstained. (for the record, Ji Sama didnt vote with her 51% majority) I will let this stand for another 24 hours before it takes effect! Please sound your voice, if you think the voting is bugged. I will need a third party to verify this as I do not hold shares in the venture and therefore cannot see the vote myself. Can someone vaguely trustworthy who has isk in this please step forward? No need, Ji has sent me a share so I can see the vote.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.26 15:31:00 - [379] Originally by: Bad Bobby Ji Sama has contacted me regarding release of collateral. I am told there is a shareholder vote in progress to approve this. The collateral I currently hold is... Originally by: Bad Bobby Ji Sama has transferred the following to me as collateral: 10x Drug Lab = 675m 2x Equipment Assembly Array = 108m 10x Rapid Equipment Assembly Array = 90m 2x Small Ship Assembly Array = 180m 5x Mobile Laboratory = 450m 1x Large Ship Assembly Array = 81m 1x Advanced Small Ship Assembly Array = 90m 1x Advanced Medium Ship Assembly Array = 90m 1x Advanced Large Ship Assembly Array = 90m 10x Experimental Laboratory = 1000m 1x Apocalypse Blueprint (unresearched original) = 1,012.5m 1x Caldari Control Tower = 360m 5x Advanced Mobile Laboratory = 750m Total value at NPC price = 4976.5m All of it is ready to be returned when I get the go-ahead. The Apoc BPO has received a few levels of ME research while it was in my care. confirming collateral recieved. thank you bad bobby! for your assitance with this IPO.
W1ndWalk3r	Posted - 2009.09.07 08:26:00 - [380] wonna buy 200 shares contact me please

Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.09.07 18:21:00 - [381] Edited by: Brock Nelson on 07/09/2009 18:21:51 Ji, could you clarify how much the shares is valued at and how it is valued?
Taram Caldar GK inc.	Posted - 2009.09.08 15:01:00 - [382] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 08/09/2009 15:05:42 Originally by: Ji Sama all shares are currently sold out, you would have to get in contact with a shareholder. current estimated share value is 1.35M per share... Ji posted this back on May 25th. It's on page 12 of the thread. From what I gather the share value is based on the NAV of TMP. Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
Kapila Parthalan	Posted - 2009.09.08 22:38:00 - [383] Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 08/09/2009 15:07:14 Originally by: Ji Sama all shares are currently sold out, you would have to get in contact with a shareholder. current estimated share value is 1.35M per share... Ji posted this back on May 25th. It's on page 12 of the thread. From what I gather the share value is based on the NAV of TMP. Ji, can you clarify what the share value means? Does this mean that the shares will be bought back at that price? My understanding is that the buyback price is still .5m (or 95% of that).
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.09.08 23:09:00 - [384] My guess is no. Ji added 50b of assets (whatever the actual figure is) to the IPO without issuing shares for it and thus, it affected the price. So, my guess he will take the asset back before buying the share back.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:08:00 - [385] Ok to clarify: When TMPI closes shop, we will buy back shares based on our NAV, that is why we currently valuate our shares on our NAV. When that is said, i will of course be taking my cut of the pie, currently i am working with figures around 5-10% (in total) for myself and key members of TMPI. Currently our latest undisclosed NAV Report shows a minor loss in TMPI NAV, valuating the entire corp around 74B There are many reasons for this, reasons i cannot address yet. Suffice to say, TMPI is still rolling, we have no intention of closing yet, currently we have paid out more than 12B in dividends. Hope this answer your questions; lastly i just want to say; that i have no intention of taking back the assets that where injected into TMPI, they are now owned by TMPI, and will remain TMPI assets untill we close shop.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:39:00 - [386] Let me get this right. IPO starts with 24.5 billion correct? All belongs to investor correct? You add 50b to the IPO correct? You said just now you won't be reclaiming the 50b correct? So, you just lost 50 billion for nothing because it now belongs to the investors.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.24 01:05:00 - [387] I dont understand why you didnt get this 6 mths ago, repeating the question will not change the answer. I am currently working with numbers around 5-10% of the total nav for my compensation when this is over. The rest will go back to the investors, that is correct. So if we where to use the current set up for a close shop scenario it would looke something like this. 74B NAV 7.4B Salaries 66.6B Investor Pay Out
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.09.24 01:18:00 - [388] So, you ARE personally going to lose 50 billion? Yes or no? Don't give us some link to an old post, that's the past, we're talking about now.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.24 01:20:00 - [389] i dont understand what it is you dont get, and of course i will refer you to an old post, because i stand by what was said. was it smart? that can always be discussed. i did what i did. period. to answer your question: YES
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.24 01:34:00 - [390] So you're the worst businessman ever? Step 1. Give away 50b with no intention of recovery. Step 2. ??? Step 3. Loss.

Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.24 01:50:00 - [391] If your unhappy with the way i am managing this IPO you are welcome to use your right as an investor and get your shares bought back at 95% of initial stock price :) As it stands with more than 12 billion ISK paid back to investors in the form of dividend, all investors would get what i call a decent return here in the unsecured part of the IPO market, should they chose to part with their stock ahead of time.
Lui Kai Better Than You	Posted - 2009.09.27 05:31:00 - [392] Originally by: Solisk So you're the worst businessman ever? Step 1. Give away 50b with no intention of recovery. Step 2. ??? Step 3. Loss. Quoting truth. Eve players do some really stupid ** sometimes, but working one's butt off, enduring criticism, and dealing with forum e-paperwork nonsense - all to give away 50b? You could have just held a free-entry raffle and be considered nice. Doing it this route, you just look ****ed. ----------------
Taram Caldar GK inc.	Posted - 2009.09.28 15:18:00 - [393] TBH I'm trying to figure out why you guys are raising such a stink. So far he's been 100% on time with dividends twice as high as he originally projected for the IPO. Who cares if he wanted to stick an extra 50b in assets into the corp. TBH it's not really any of your business if you don't own shares. If you do own shares then why do you care if the 50b in assets is there or not? If you own them and bought them at 500k each then quit complaining. If you don't agree with the 1.35mil value of the shares after he's added the 50b in assets then don't buy them from people re-selling at that price. It's really just that simple. Regardless how you slice it he's been on time or early with all dividend payments and has been completely up front about how he is handling the stock. Whether you LIKE it or not isn't really an issue. If you want out, sell your shares back to him at 95%, you've already earned more than enough dividends to have made it a profitable venture for you even at a 95% buy back. After all is said and done, this is a game. Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
Signore Kaeota Caldari Caelum Incognitum	Posted - 2009.09.28 15:29:00 - [394] Originally by: Taram Caldar TBH I'm trying to figure out why you guys are raising such a stink. So far he's been 100% on time with dividends twice as high as he originally projected for the IPO. Who cares if he wanted to stick an extra 50b in assets into the corp. TBH it's not really any of your business if you don't own shares. If you do own shares then why do you care if the 50b in assets is there or not? If you own them and bought them at 500k each then quit complaining. If you don't agree with the 1.35mil value of the shares after he's added the 50b in assets then don't buy them from people re-selling at that price. It's really just that simple. Regardless how you slice it he's been on time or early with all dividend payments and has been completely up front about how he is handling the stock. Whether you LIKE it or not isn't really an issue. If you want out, sell your shares back to him at 95%, you've already earned more than enough dividends to have made it a profitable venture for you even at a 95% buy back. After all is said and done, this is a game. Unfortunately it's not quite that simple. That was a major alteration of the stock value (via a NAV increase) without warning or compensation, and makes him look like he is trying to scam people by making the stock worth more than it is. While no intentions may ever have existed, we play a game where laws and rules are non-enforceable and, as such, anything that /could/, not matter how remotely, unjustly benefit one or more individuals, is going to be scrutinised, picked over, insulted and everything else under the sun - regardless of past, present, personality etc, as it can all be faked. For the record; my understanding is that this all happened some months ago, and anyone who benefited from it unfairly has already done so, and thus slipped under the radar. Though personally, from what I've seen of Ji, I doubt that's the case. -_-_-_- I, Signore Kaeota, hereby apologise for any and all offence caused by the contents of this above post, and all others that I have written, or otherwise been responsible for. -_-_-_
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.09.28 16:12:00 - [395] Originally by: Taram Caldar After all is said and done, this is a game. I'll lay odds that you would not invest in someone who said this regarding your isk. But let's get right into the grit of the matter: If it is a game then there are rules. Being that there are rules people who start breaking them draw fouls. In the case, cries of "foul". TBH I find that people who point out that it is "just a game" are in fact the ones taking things too seriously. You see people saying something and you read extremis into their expression of your own creation. Then to cure your own discomfort the mantra comes out "Just a game, need a life, just a game". The simple point is this: There's rational ways to do things and then there is irrational. When it is your own money, you are eccentric. When it is the public's money, you are scrutinized. (Not much else can be done, sadly.) Burying your head in the sand is irrational even for lemmings. However there is the cliff, have it. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Dzil Caldari Sausage Banking	Posted - 2009.09.28 20:21:00 - [396] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Taram Caldar After all is said and done, this is a game. Burying your head in the sand is irrational even for lemmings. However there is the cliff, have it. Oh, now you've done it. You've spent all your troll points, and even your rollover minutes. The cliche analogies are running together into drivel. Recharge good man, get some sleep :P Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
Dzil Caldari Sausage Banking	Posted - 2009.09.28 20:50:00 - [397] Originally by: Taram Caldar TBH I'm trying to figure out why you guys are raising such a stink. ... Regardless how you slice it he's been on time or early with all dividend payments and has been completely up front about how he is handling the stock. Gonna go with NO on this one. (That's where the stink's coming from, though a lot of the details were raised in Keyser Khan's sale thread instead of this one.) And yes, it's equally important as the timely dividends: if something jeopardizes you getting your initial investment back at the end or when you sell out, it can overturn months/years of timely dividends. In fact, most ponzi schemes work exactly like this: they'll pay out billions on the investment interest, but in the end turn a profit for the manager who keeps the original principal. As far as who's business it is: there's been at least 3 threads selling shares of TMPI in the last two months. Should the prospective buyer ask their questions before or after buying in? If you think after, I'll be launching a new offering soon called the "Send isk now, ask questions later!!" bond, just for you. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
Taram Caldar GK inc.	Posted - 2009.09.30 21:51:00 - [398] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 30/09/2009 21:53:06 Originally by: Signore Kaeota Originally by: Taram Caldar TBH I'm trying to figure out why you guys are raising such a stink. So far he's been 100% on time with dividends twice as high as he originally projected for the IPO. Who cares if he wanted to stick an extra 50b in assets into the corp. TBH it's not really any of your business if you don't own shares. If you do own shares then why do you care if the 50b in assets is there or not? If you own them and bought them at 500k each then quit complaining. If you don't agree with the 1.35mil value of the shares after he's added the 50b in assets then don't buy them from people re-selling at that price. It's really just that simple. Regardless how you slice it he's been on time or early with all dividend payments and has been completely up front about how he is handling the stock. Whether you LIKE it or not isn't really an issue. If you want out, sell your shares back to him at 95%, you've already earned more than enough dividends to have made it a profitable venture for you even at a 95% buy back. After all is said and done, this is a game. Unfortunately it's not quite that simple. That was a major alteration of the stock value (via a NAV increase) without warning or compensation, and makes him look like he is trying to scam people by making the stock worth more than it is. While no intentions may ever have existed, we play a game where laws and rules are non-enforceable and, as such, anything that /could/, not matter how remotely, unjustly benefit one or more individuals, is going to be scrutinised, picked over, insulted and everything else under the sun - regardless of past, present, personality etc, as it can all be faked. For the record; my understanding is that this all happened some months ago, and anyone who benefited from it unfairly has already done so, and thus slipped under the radar. Though personally, from what I've seen of Ji, I doubt that's the case. I agree. I just wish people would refrain from the personal and ad hominem attacks on people just because they disagree with an action taken. I understand how the injection of assets raises questions. And I raised questions myself (in game) with Ji. His answer satisfied my questions at the time. I'm all for mature discussion but the constant insults don't help anyone or help the situation. Just wish people would learn to communicate in a mature and respectful manner instead of always resorting to insults when they don't get the answer they want to hear. I agree he should have been more up front about the why's and hows when injecting 50b in assets into the IPO but I think there's been a bit of a witch hunt going on and at this point its doing more harm than good. The questions have been raised. Ji has answered them to an extent and then the attacks started and now there's no communication at all, making the entire IPO a lot less 'safe'. Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.09.30 22:33:00 - [399] He didn't answer the question, he gave incomplete answer and when the matter was pursued, he avoided it and tried to turn the table on us.
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.30 23:01:00 - [400] Most of the questions asked and concerns raised were all completely legitimate, might I add.

Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.10.08 23:37:00 - [401] Edited by: Ji Sama on 08/10/2009 23:41:05 Dividends have been paid. an estimate of 2475000000,00 ISK ie. 10.1% of 24.5B A vote have been send out to investors regarding TMPI NAV. In the case of a reset, any investor that have bought shares at the inflated price, will be compensated in full. Unfortunatly, i can only compensate people who have bought shares through MD, where i can confirm the transfer! I am sorry for the inconvenience .
Krathos Morpheus Gallente Legion Infernal	Posted - 2009.10.08 23:50:00 - [402] Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 08/10/2009 23:41:05 Dividends have been paid. an estimate of 2475000000,00 ISK ie. 10.1% of 24.5B A vote have been send out to investors regarding TMPI NAV. In the case of a reset, any investor that have bought shares at the inflated price, will be compensated in full. Unfortunatly, i can only compensate people who have bought shares through MD, where i can confirm the transfer! I am sorry for the inconvenience . That opens up a heaven for alts selling to themselves. No more than one signature image may be used. Edo
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.10.09 00:11:00 - [403] emphazise on BOUGHT
Lecherito	Posted - 2009.10.09 00:38:00 - [404] dividends received! -L
Aion Morpheus	Posted - 2009.10.09 01:09:00 - [405] Edited by: Aion Morpheus on 09/10/2009 01:09:28 Originally by: Ji Sama emphazise on BOUGHT Sure. People sells to themselves the shares through alts and people ensures that even if you take your money back they will enjoy the inflated price.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.10.09 01:28:00 - [406] Really can't explain it better: If you have BOUGHT shares BEFORE this vote was initiated, you are entitled to a refund, IF you can verify the stock purchase with a forum post, that is dated before this announcement AND at the inflated NAV price. Won't eleborate on this any further.
Companion Qube	Posted - 2009.10.09 04:47:00 - [407] Dividends recieved, thanks champ.
Aion Morpheus	Posted - 2009.10.09 06:49:00 - [408] Originally by: Ji Sama Really can't explain it better: If you have BOUGHT shares BEFORE this vote was initiated, you are entitled to a refund, IF you can verify the stock purchase with a forum post, that is dated before this announcement AND at the inflated NAV price. Won't eleborate on this any further. I'm sorry, looks like the privation of sleep has bad effects on my reading comprenhension. I missed the line about the vote taking place now and I thought you said that the refunds would take place in case of a future undetermined in time withdrawal.
Taram Caldar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.10.09 12:24:00 - [409] Dividends recieved. Thank you :) Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.10.09 21:04:00 - [410] Hey Ji, would you be willing to tell those of us who don't have shares what the vote question is and what options there is?

Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.10.09 22:13:00 - [411] Originally by: Brock Nelson Hey Ji, would you be willing to tell those of us who don't have shares what the vote question is and what options there is? The vote will run for seven days. Subject: Regarding the NAV of TMPI Option 1: Reset the NAV to 24.5B ISK Option 2: Keep the current NAV of 74B ISK Option 3: Abstain
Aion Morpheus	Posted - 2009.10.09 22:33:00 - [412] Originally by: Ji Sama Originally by: Brock Nelson Hey Ji, would you be willing to tell those of us who don't have shares what the vote question is and what options there is? The vote will run for seven days. Subject: Regarding the NAV of TMPI Option 1: Reset the NAV to 24.5B ISK Option 2: Keep the current NAV of 74B ISK Option 3: Abstain What implies those options? Will resetting the NAV give you back the money? Will keep the current NAV give investors that money? Will you abstain from voting?.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.10.09 22:34:00 - [413] I have never used my majority vote to this date, and i dont plan on doing it now. You answered your other questions all by yourself.
Aion Morpheus	Posted - 2009.10.09 22:38:00 - [414] Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 09/10/2009 22:37:15 Edit: Will resetting the NAV give you back the money? Yes Will keep the current NAV give investors that money? Yes Will you abstain from voting?. Yes Great, just wanted to be sure. Thanks.
Roger Kiyosaki Community for Active Tax Evasion	Posted - 2009.12.23 14:02:00 - [415] Any more recent threads/updates? I've been away from Eve for a couple of months, not sure if I've missed anything crucial. Having said that, my wallet greeted me with a blinkfest in div payments. Thanks Ji.
Roger Kiyosaki Community for Active Tax Evasion	Posted - 2009.12.23 14:23:00 - [416] Found it, I think. So forget about the post above. This is the follow-up thread (correct me if I'm wrong).


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