Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jan Ors
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:06:00 -
[61]
I agree completely. ________
My chosen sig won't fit. Fah. |
Jan Ors
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:06:00 -
[62]
I agree completely. ________
My chosen sig won't fit. Fah. |
Nafri
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:21:00 -
[63]
signed Wanna fly with me?
|
Nafri
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:21:00 -
[64]
signed Wanna fly with me?
|
Tolkh
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:37:00 -
[65]
Something to consider though is that when you talk about specialisation you usually have a path that requires a sacrifice to reach the end. The idea being that not everyone will be willing to pay the price to specialise wich is the idea since it makes the people who did specialise, well "special" =) .
So the question is, if they don't do it this way, what way can they do it by retaining the notion of a big enough sacrifice that not everyone wants to do this ? If every BS pilot takes these skills then there is simply no specialisation.
|
Tolkh
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:37:00 -
[66]
Something to consider though is that when you talk about specialisation you usually have a path that requires a sacrifice to reach the end. The idea being that not everyone will be willing to pay the price to specialise wich is the idea since it makes the people who did specialise, well "special" =) .
So the question is, if they don't do it this way, what way can they do it by retaining the notion of a big enough sacrifice that not everyone wants to do this ? If every BS pilot takes these skills then there is simply no specialisation.
|
Ardor
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:39:00 -
[67]
I disagree. I understand your arguments and I think they are somehow valid. But...
The big problem is a MMOG always needs new players. The new players dont want to play as cannonfodder for us vets. Surprise! If we make it too easy to gain specialization in large guns it would be 1.) not very specialized and 2.) the difference between newbies and vets will stay the same.
The goal of a fair skillsystem (fair for noobs) is give them a chance to catch up while vets always have a small advantage. This advange of vets will decrease over time in effectivness but will not decrease in number of reached skillpoints. As long as both (the new player and the vet) are always training their skills the new player will always come closer in effectivness to a vet but he will never be able to become equal if both train the same skills. This is fair for noobs and rewarding the vets.
The other options would be 1. make it too easy for vets to stay at the top which will be the death for Eve because no new player wants to join being cannonfodder forever. 2. skill cap for vets which I very much dislike. 3. a different and harder way for specialization. Example: you want to be specialized in large guns only. Ok, large blaster specialization is now a rank 16 skill.
I like it the way it is now. To be able to specialize in T2 medium blaster you must be able to handle T2 small blaster etc. I dont see a problem here.
|
Ardor
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:39:00 -
[68]
I disagree. I understand your arguments and I think they are somehow valid. But...
The big problem is a MMOG always needs new players. The new players dont want to play as cannonfodder for us vets. Surprise! If we make it too easy to gain specialization in large guns it would be 1.) not very specialized and 2.) the difference between newbies and vets will stay the same.
The goal of a fair skillsystem (fair for noobs) is give them a chance to catch up while vets always have a small advantage. This advange of vets will decrease over time in effectivness but will not decrease in number of reached skillpoints. As long as both (the new player and the vet) are always training their skills the new player will always come closer in effectivness to a vet but he will never be able to become equal if both train the same skills. This is fair for noobs and rewarding the vets.
The other options would be 1. make it too easy for vets to stay at the top which will be the death for Eve because no new player wants to join being cannonfodder forever. 2. skill cap for vets which I very much dislike. 3. a different and harder way for specialization. Example: you want to be specialized in large guns only. Ok, large blaster specialization is now a rank 16 skill.
I like it the way it is now. To be able to specialize in T2 medium blaster you must be able to handle T2 small blaster etc. I dont see a problem here.
|
Marcus Grisbius
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:41:00 -
[69]
I think people are kinda missing the direction of the specialization. It's not specialization in Turret Size but rather in Turret Type. You specialize in blasters or railguns or beams or pulses not large, medium or small. It allows you to specialize at your fighting STYLE not you ship. The ship is sort of just a platform to support your style. That way you can be a great blaster pilot and someone else can be a great rail pilot.
It makes sense that you would need to learn the lower level gun skills before you would be able to learn the higher level ones. So in that way it makes a lot more sense to be able to specialize in the type of turret rather than the size of turret.
Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn |
Marcus Grisbius
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:41:00 -
[70]
I think people are kinda missing the direction of the specialization. It's not specialization in Turret Size but rather in Turret Type. You specialize in blasters or railguns or beams or pulses not large, medium or small. It allows you to specialize at your fighting STYLE not you ship. The ship is sort of just a platform to support your style. That way you can be a great blaster pilot and someone else can be a great rail pilot.
It makes sense that you would need to learn the lower level gun skills before you would be able to learn the higher level ones. So in that way it makes a lot more sense to be able to specialize in the type of turret rather than the size of turret.
Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn |
|
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:43:00 -
[71]
Two points from me.
1) Support cruisers the first of the elite cruisers don't need a elite frigate skill. Don't bet on others not requiring them.
2) You're specializing, not in a given turret such as large hybrid. You specialize in a given turret type, such as rails, autocannons, pulse lasers. Which follows the same linear progression the normal turrets do. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:43:00 -
[72]
Two points from me.
1) Support cruisers the first of the elite cruisers don't need a elite frigate skill. Don't bet on others not requiring them.
2) You're specializing, not in a given turret such as large hybrid. You specialize in a given turret type, such as rails, autocannons, pulse lasers. Which follows the same linear progression the normal turrets do. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:55:00 -
[73]
I want to specialize is large railguns.
Why am I forced to specialize in small and medium railguns?
It defeats the entire purpose of specialization when I'm forced to train skills I don't require.
And, please, what is with the idea that specialization should be difficult?
It should be a choice not a requirement.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 18:55:00 -
[74]
I want to specialize is large railguns.
Why am I forced to specialize in small and medium railguns?
It defeats the entire purpose of specialization when I'm forced to train skills I don't require.
And, please, what is with the idea that specialization should be difficult?
It should be a choice not a requirement.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Damajink
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:19:00 -
[75]
Specialisation
|
Damajink
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:19:00 -
[76]
Specialisation
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:23:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Damajink Specialisation
It can be spelled both ways.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:23:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Damajink Specialisation
It can be spelled both ways.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
DJTheBaron
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:25:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert I want to specialize is large railguns.
Why am I forced to specialize in small and medium railguns?
It defeats the entire purpose of specialization when I'm forced to train skills I don't require.
And, please, what is with the idea that specialization should be difficult?
It should be a choice not a requirement.
you need to train small to use medium, smal and medium to train large and its been that way for over a year, why does this suprise you and why are you complaining over diction __________________________________________________
Scum, your all scum. |
DJTheBaron
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:25:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert I want to specialize is large railguns.
Why am I forced to specialize in small and medium railguns?
It defeats the entire purpose of specialization when I'm forced to train skills I don't require.
And, please, what is with the idea that specialization should be difficult?
It should be a choice not a requirement.
you need to train small to use medium, smal and medium to train large and its been that way for over a year, why does this suprise you and why are you complaining over diction __________________________________________________
Scum, your all scum. |
|
cashman
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:35:00 -
[81]
Originally by: DJTheBaron
Originally by: Joshua Calvert I want to specialize is large railguns.
Why am I forced to specialize in small and medium railguns?
It defeats the entire purpose of specialization when I'm forced to train skills I don't require.
And, please, what is with the idea that specialization should be difficult?
It should be a choice not a requirement.
you need to train small to use medium, smal and medium to train large and its been that way for over a year, why does this suprise you and why are you complaining over diction
Dude, can't you read? Or didn't you even bother to read the rest of the thread?
*sigh*
____________________________________
»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
|
cashman
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:35:00 -
[82]
Originally by: DJTheBaron
Originally by: Joshua Calvert I want to specialize is large railguns.
Why am I forced to specialize in small and medium railguns?
It defeats the entire purpose of specialization when I'm forced to train skills I don't require.
And, please, what is with the idea that specialization should be difficult?
It should be a choice not a requirement.
you need to train small to use medium, smal and medium to train large and its been that way for over a year, why does this suprise you and why are you complaining over diction
Dude, can't you read? Or didn't you even bother to read the rest of the thread?
*sigh*
____________________________________
»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
|
Harry Voyager
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:43:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Harry Voyager on 01/09/2004 19:47:36 Edited by: Harry Voyager on 01/09/2004 19:47:17 What happens when CCP nerfs them, after people have had to invest 3.4 millions skillpoints, just to get them?
I just plugged the numbers, and I'd need around 3 million skillpoints (I have 4.5m total) just to use Mega Pulse IIs. Considering that they each take an aditional 250mw of power grid to run, and only offer a 3.6 damage modifier and a range improvement, they are not worth dedicating three months of my training time, just to get a weapon that will be nerfed into oblivion by the time I can actually use it.
Someone once said, "There is a difference between risk, and dousing oneself in deer blood, smacking a bear, and then saying, I'll just take what's coming my way."
Harry Voyager
|
Harry Voyager
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:43:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Harry Voyager on 01/09/2004 19:47:36 Edited by: Harry Voyager on 01/09/2004 19:47:17 What happens when CCP nerfs them, after people have had to invest 3.4 millions skillpoints, just to get them?
I just plugged the numbers, and I'd need around 3 million skillpoints (I have 4.5m total) just to use Mega Pulse IIs. Considering that they each take an aditional 250mw of power grid to run, and only offer a 3.6 damage modifier and a range improvement, they are not worth dedicating three months of my training time, just to get a weapon that will be nerfed into oblivion by the time I can actually use it.
Someone once said, "There is a difference between risk, and dousing oneself in deer blood, smacking a bear, and then saying, I'll just take what's coming my way."
Harry Voyager
|
Tamur
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:51:00 -
[85]
Just a thought here, but forget for 1 minute that the skills are called 'Specialization' skills. They are simply the required skills that enable you to use the new Tech II turrets.
They could be called 'Tech II Turret Skills' - so the feeling of being 'special' is not really a factor. When you wanted to use large turrets you had to train small ones, then medium ones to enable the use of large ones - ok its a bit of a broader scale as the Tech II turrets are already clasified as 'small, medium and large' but having to train the skills up in this way kinda builds up to the excitement of being able to use them no?
So having to train the Tech II turret skills in this way is simply keeping the manor in way turrets are trained the same, only I will agree that the pre-requisite skills are rather high!
|
Tamur
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:51:00 -
[86]
Just a thought here, but forget for 1 minute that the skills are called 'Specialization' skills. They are simply the required skills that enable you to use the new Tech II turrets.
They could be called 'Tech II Turret Skills' - so the feeling of being 'special' is not really a factor. When you wanted to use large turrets you had to train small ones, then medium ones to enable the use of large ones - ok its a bit of a broader scale as the Tech II turrets are already clasified as 'small, medium and large' but having to train the skills up in this way kinda builds up to the excitement of being able to use them no?
So having to train the Tech II turret skills in this way is simply keeping the manor in way turrets are trained the same, only I will agree that the pre-requisite skills are rather high!
|
cashman
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:53:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Harry Voyager Edited by: Harry Voyager on 01/09/2004 19:47:36 Edited by: Harry Voyager on 01/09/2004 19:47:17 What happens when CCP nerfs them, after people have had to invest 3.4 millions skillpoints, just to get them?
I just plugged the numbers, and I'd need around 3 million skillpoints (I have 4.5m total) just to use Mega Pulse IIs. Considering that they each take an aditional 250mw of power grid to run, and only offer a 3.6 damage modifier and a range improvement, they are not worth dedicating three months of my training time, just to get a weapon that will be nerfed into oblivion by the time I can actually use it.
Someone once said, "There is a difference between risk, and dousing oneself in deer blood, smacking a bear, and then saying, I'll just take what's coming my way."
Harry Voyager
Thats why they need to change this now. Before people waste too much training in this.
____________________________________
»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
|
cashman
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:53:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Harry Voyager Edited by: Harry Voyager on 01/09/2004 19:47:36 Edited by: Harry Voyager on 01/09/2004 19:47:17 What happens when CCP nerfs them, after people have had to invest 3.4 millions skillpoints, just to get them?
I just plugged the numbers, and I'd need around 3 million skillpoints (I have 4.5m total) just to use Mega Pulse IIs. Considering that they each take an aditional 250mw of power grid to run, and only offer a 3.6 damage modifier and a range improvement, they are not worth dedicating three months of my training time, just to get a weapon that will be nerfed into oblivion by the time I can actually use it.
Someone once said, "There is a difference between risk, and dousing oneself in deer blood, smacking a bear, and then saying, I'll just take what's coming my way."
Harry Voyager
Thats why they need to change this now. Before people waste too much training in this.
____________________________________
»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
|
Safronique
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:59:00 -
[89]
could someone explain too me please, but say you have a large projectile II fitted to your Tempest...
How does the damage modifier work out?
is it Base of gun, i.e. 6 with 5% increase per level of BS you have, plus 5% per level of large turret you have, plus any level of surgical strike you may have then plus 2% for the specialization skill?
so e.g. if I had the following: Minmatar BS 5 Large Turret 5 Surgical Strike 5 Specialization 5
the dmg of a tech II 1400 would be someting like this: approx 11.9 ?? (my maths is total poo BTW so its probably way out lol)
|
Safronique
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 19:59:00 -
[90]
could someone explain too me please, but say you have a large projectile II fitted to your Tempest...
How does the damage modifier work out?
is it Base of gun, i.e. 6 with 5% increase per level of BS you have, plus 5% per level of large turret you have, plus any level of surgical strike you may have then plus 2% for the specialization skill?
so e.g. if I had the following: Minmatar BS 5 Large Turret 5 Surgical Strike 5 Specialization 5
the dmg of a tech II 1400 would be someting like this: approx 11.9 ?? (my maths is total poo BTW so its probably way out lol)
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |