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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Gasparde
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Posted - 2004.09.29 20:06:00 -
[211]
Its all about the dollar. The longer it takes you to train the longer you will stay playing (the theory anyway).
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Gasparde
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Posted - 2004.09.29 20:06:00 -
[212]
Its all about the dollar. The longer it takes you to train the longer you will stay playing (the theory anyway).
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Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.09.29 21:32:00 -
[213]
bottom line: if you don't intend to use the medium and small guns anyway what difference does it make?
i agree it's odd that the pre-req for Large specialisation skills includes the medium and small specialisations at level 4 but the training times are about right, especialy now we have advanced learning skills
there's no reason for CCP to change the pre-reqs
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Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.09.29 21:32:00 -
[214]
bottom line: if you don't intend to use the medium and small guns anyway what difference does it make?
i agree it's odd that the pre-req for Large specialisation skills includes the medium and small specialisations at level 4 but the training times are about right, especialy now we have advanced learning skills
there's no reason for CCP to change the pre-reqs
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Kaladryn
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Posted - 2004.09.29 22:03:00 -
[215]
I totally disagree with the original post, battleships skills have always been build on requirements from cruisers and frigs...
Kaladryn |
Kaladryn
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Posted - 2004.09.29 22:03:00 -
[216]
I totally disagree with the original post, battleships skills have always been build on requirements from cruisers and frigs...
Kaladryn |
Aitrus
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Posted - 2004.09.29 23:02:00 -
[217]
It would appear that CCP does not consider weapon SIZE a specialization. Weapon TYPE is the specialization. Therefore, you're a Railgun specialist, or a Blaster specialist. Not a small turrent specialist.
I understand that people want to specialize in the large guns of your choice without training the small, but did you fly a battleship before training cruiser skills? Were you able to use large turrents without specialization while skipping medium? The training path that turrent specialization takes is consistent with what was already set. Honestly, I'm suprised that elite cruisers don't have a frigate 5 pre-requisite.
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2004.09.29 23:02:00 -
[218]
It would appear that CCP does not consider weapon SIZE a specialization. Weapon TYPE is the specialization. Therefore, you're a Railgun specialist, or a Blaster specialist. Not a small turrent specialist.
I understand that people want to specialize in the large guns of your choice without training the small, but did you fly a battleship before training cruiser skills? Were you able to use large turrents without specialization while skipping medium? The training path that turrent specialization takes is consistent with what was already set. Honestly, I'm suprised that elite cruisers don't have a frigate 5 pre-requisite.
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Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.09.29 23:06:00 -
[219]
exactly the pic here reads Large Railgun Specialization not Railgun Large Specilization __________________________________________
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Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.09.29 23:06:00 -
[220]
exactly the pic here reads Large Railgun Specialization not Railgun Large Specilization __________________________________________
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.09.29 23:07:00 -
[221]
This specialization business will absolutely kill the tech 2 large weapon market. --
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.09.29 23:07:00 -
[222]
This specialization business will absolutely kill the tech 2 large weapon market. --
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2004.09.30 01:10:00 -
[223]
well... they simply should rename the specialisation skills into timehog skills or something...
all it does is making a frig and cruiser jockey out of everyone who wants to go for large spezialisation...
meaning, there will be nothing SPEZIAL about tech2 small guns... only a small percentage of the people will not be able to use them because of the socalled specialisation skills...
if they want to make sure training takes long, they could have simply upped the rank of the skill in question.... would ahve made more sense than the approach ccp took now...
so, yes, signed, give us specialisation instead of uniformity
----
Manfred Doomhammer Fleet Admiral CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2004.09.30 01:10:00 -
[224]
well... they simply should rename the specialisation skills into timehog skills or something...
all it does is making a frig and cruiser jockey out of everyone who wants to go for large spezialisation...
meaning, there will be nothing SPEZIAL about tech2 small guns... only a small percentage of the people will not be able to use them because of the socalled specialisation skills...
if they want to make sure training takes long, they could have simply upped the rank of the skill in question.... would ahve made more sense than the approach ccp took now...
so, yes, signed, give us specialisation instead of uniformity
----
Manfred Doomhammer Fleet Admiral CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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cashman
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Posted - 2004.09.30 01:55:00 -
[225]
Edited by: cashman on 30/09/2004 01:56:49
Originally by: Aitrus It would appear that CCP does not consider weapon SIZE a specialization. Weapon TYPE is the specialization. Therefore, you're a Railgun specialist, or a Blaster specialist. Not a small turrent specialist.
I understand that people want to specialize in the large guns of your choice without training the small, but did you fly a battleship before training cruiser skills? Were you able to use large turrents without specialization while skipping medium? The training path that turrent specialization takes is consistent with what was already set. Honestly, I'm suprised that elite cruisers don't have a frigate 5 pre-requisite.
[offtopic]
ITS TURRETS!! T-U-R-R-E-T-S ! NO "N" IN THAT WORD! AAAGGHHH! TURRET!
[/offtopic]
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cashman
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Posted - 2004.09.30 01:55:00 -
[226]
Edited by: cashman on 30/09/2004 01:56:49
Originally by: Aitrus It would appear that CCP does not consider weapon SIZE a specialization. Weapon TYPE is the specialization. Therefore, you're a Railgun specialist, or a Blaster specialist. Not a small turrent specialist.
I understand that people want to specialize in the large guns of your choice without training the small, but did you fly a battleship before training cruiser skills? Were you able to use large turrents without specialization while skipping medium? The training path that turrent specialization takes is consistent with what was already set. Honestly, I'm suprised that elite cruisers don't have a frigate 5 pre-requisite.
[offtopic]
ITS TURRETS!! T-U-R-R-E-T-S ! NO "N" IN THAT WORD! AAAGGHHH! TURRET!
[/offtopic]
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Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2004.09.30 04:23:00 -
[227]
agreed -- Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2004.09.30 04:23:00 -
[228]
agreed -- Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2004.09.30 05:12:00 -
[229]
yea I realy dont wanna train "high speed chase" to learn how to "Drive monster truck" or learn how to "fly a hellicopter" to "fly a jumbo jet"
/signed
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This i |
Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2004.09.30 05:12:00 -
[230]
yea I realy dont wanna train "high speed chase" to learn how to "Drive monster truck" or learn how to "fly a hellicopter" to "fly a jumbo jet"
/signed
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This i |
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Lachenlaud
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Posted - 2004.09.30 05:32:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert Specialization is a misnomer because we are being forced to specialize in areas in which we may hold no interest.
Why should I, as a battleship pilot, be forced to train Small Hybrid/Medium Hybrid specialization just so I can then train/specialize in Large Hybrids?
It goes against the very idea of specialization and, to be honest, I think this is just another silent nerf on battleship users.
Oh cry me a river... no offense against you specifically Joshua... but the whole idea of all these new skills is not just for battleship pilots...
Too many people look for instant gratification. Consider what the skills do, not to mention the weapons they allow you to use. For that type of destructive power (multi-racial battleship pilot that I am) you should HAVE to work up to it.
Even in the military - they don't let you play with the BIG guns until you can use the little ones....
Stop being indignant people... you just gotta deal...
Oh - and in case you haven't noticed - they added ADVANCED LEARNING SKILLS. Prior to all these new skills in the game - gunnery, learning, corp management, and trading... it would have taken you 10+ years to max them out. Now... with ALL the new skills and the advanced learning skills - you can max them all out in 8+ years. So as far as time spent, etc... play your cards right and it won't take all that long at all.
[email protected] http://www.goi-eve.com/forums/ Check out the Eve Master Datasheet here!! |
Lachenlaud
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Posted - 2004.09.30 05:32:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert Specialization is a misnomer because we are being forced to specialize in areas in which we may hold no interest.
Why should I, as a battleship pilot, be forced to train Small Hybrid/Medium Hybrid specialization just so I can then train/specialize in Large Hybrids?
It goes against the very idea of specialization and, to be honest, I think this is just another silent nerf on battleship users.
Oh cry me a river... no offense against you specifically Joshua... but the whole idea of all these new skills is not just for battleship pilots...
Too many people look for instant gratification. Consider what the skills do, not to mention the weapons they allow you to use. For that type of destructive power (multi-racial battleship pilot that I am) you should HAVE to work up to it.
Even in the military - they don't let you play with the BIG guns until you can use the little ones....
Stop being indignant people... you just gotta deal...
Oh - and in case you haven't noticed - they added ADVANCED LEARNING SKILLS. Prior to all these new skills in the game - gunnery, learning, corp management, and trading... it would have taken you 10+ years to max them out. Now... with ALL the new skills and the advanced learning skills - you can max them all out in 8+ years. So as far as time spent, etc... play your cards right and it won't take all that long at all.
[email protected] http://www.goi-eve.com/forums/ Check out the Eve Master Datasheet here!! |
Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2004.09.30 07:04:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Lachenlaud
Originally by: Joshua Calvert Specialization is a misnomer because we are being forced to specialize in areas in which we may hold no interest.
Why should I, as a battleship pilot, be forced to train Small Hybrid/Medium Hybrid specialization just so I can then train/specialize in Large Hybrids?
It goes against the very idea of specialization and, to be honest, I think this is just another silent nerf on battleship users.
Oh cry me a river... no offense against you specifically Joshua... but the whole idea of all these new skills is not just for battleship pilots...
Too many people look for instant gratification. Consider what the skills do, not to mention the weapons they allow you to use. For that type of destructive power (multi-racial battleship pilot that I am) you should HAVE to work up to it.
Even in the military - they don't let you play with the BIG guns until you can use the little ones....
Stop being indignant people... you just gotta deal...
Oh - and in case you haven't noticed - they added ADVANCED LEARNING SKILLS. Prior to all these new skills in the game - gunnery, learning, corp management, and trading... it would have taken you 10+ years to max them out. Now... with ALL the new skills and the advanced learning skills - you can max them all out in 8+ years. So as far as time spent, etc... play your cards right and it won't take all that long at all.
You just dont understand, its not about instant gratification, its about ballance. Right now, the rule of thumb is that if someone has the skills to pilot a battleship and you dont, generally speaking, they will mop the floor with you in terms of total combat skills. If specialization was actually specialization, this would change, but because it is the way it is, a cruiser or frigate pilot will never beat someone who has specialized in large weapons, and do you know why? Because they will have level 4 in the skill for both small and medium, and if you have level 5, chances are an extra 2-5% isnt going to help you any.
Trust me, this will bite the game in the ass, not now, but later, probably 6 months down the road people will still be calling for nerfs to battleship pilots, and it wont be their fault that they are the best in all ship classes, it will be because CCP made it easy for them to be the best, now they have an incentive to train up the other ships and be jack of all trades characters. They have the specialization for small and medium? Why waste it now that you have it?
You may not believe it now, but it will happen, that I can guarantee.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate . <Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market? <Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2004.09.30 07:04:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Lachenlaud
Originally by: Joshua Calvert Specialization is a misnomer because we are being forced to specialize in areas in which we may hold no interest.
Why should I, as a battleship pilot, be forced to train Small Hybrid/Medium Hybrid specialization just so I can then train/specialize in Large Hybrids?
It goes against the very idea of specialization and, to be honest, I think this is just another silent nerf on battleship users.
Oh cry me a river... no offense against you specifically Joshua... but the whole idea of all these new skills is not just for battleship pilots...
Too many people look for instant gratification. Consider what the skills do, not to mention the weapons they allow you to use. For that type of destructive power (multi-racial battleship pilot that I am) you should HAVE to work up to it.
Even in the military - they don't let you play with the BIG guns until you can use the little ones....
Stop being indignant people... you just gotta deal...
Oh - and in case you haven't noticed - they added ADVANCED LEARNING SKILLS. Prior to all these new skills in the game - gunnery, learning, corp management, and trading... it would have taken you 10+ years to max them out. Now... with ALL the new skills and the advanced learning skills - you can max them all out in 8+ years. So as far as time spent, etc... play your cards right and it won't take all that long at all.
You just dont understand, its not about instant gratification, its about ballance. Right now, the rule of thumb is that if someone has the skills to pilot a battleship and you dont, generally speaking, they will mop the floor with you in terms of total combat skills. If specialization was actually specialization, this would change, but because it is the way it is, a cruiser or frigate pilot will never beat someone who has specialized in large weapons, and do you know why? Because they will have level 4 in the skill for both small and medium, and if you have level 5, chances are an extra 2-5% isnt going to help you any.
Trust me, this will bite the game in the ass, not now, but later, probably 6 months down the road people will still be calling for nerfs to battleship pilots, and it wont be their fault that they are the best in all ship classes, it will be because CCP made it easy for them to be the best, now they have an incentive to train up the other ships and be jack of all trades characters. They have the specialization for small and medium? Why waste it now that you have it?
You may not believe it now, but it will happen, that I can guarantee.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate . <Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market? <Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Burga Galti
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Posted - 2004.09.30 09:12:00 -
[235]
/signed
Josh is right, this doesn't make a great deal of sense. You see, to be an expert in using a tank sized gun I don't have to be an expert in using a sniper rifle. If I did, then any tank expert would also be a sniper expert which would devalue the role of bein a sniper.
The same applies here, yes the time sink should be neccesary, but with the current tree this will be a nerf to the elite frigate & elite cruiser pilots who will find that an elite battleship pilot will be able to step down into their shoes quite easily. That kills all notion of specialisation.
Tales from the EVE Cluster |
Burga Galti
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Posted - 2004.09.30 09:12:00 -
[236]
/signed
Josh is right, this doesn't make a great deal of sense. You see, to be an expert in using a tank sized gun I don't have to be an expert in using a sniper rifle. If I did, then any tank expert would also be a sniper expert which would devalue the role of bein a sniper.
The same applies here, yes the time sink should be neccesary, but with the current tree this will be a nerf to the elite frigate & elite cruiser pilots who will find that an elite battleship pilot will be able to step down into their shoes quite easily. That kills all notion of specialisation.
Tales from the EVE Cluster |
jukriamrr
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Posted - 2004.09.30 10:21:00 -
[237]
Edited by: jukriamrr on 30/09/2004 10:37:20 Edited by: jukriamrr on 30/09/2004 10:24:14 Edited by: jukriamrr on 30/09/2004 10:23:10 Signed again.
This makes a weapon class a mere prerequisite for any higher-size class.
ie:
- small is a prereq. for medium and large. - medium is a prereq for large.
Where is the pleasure (and gamer's pride) where the skills you spent 1 month traning are **only** a stepstone to something bigger?
To sum it up: Frigate pilots need to know they are unique. Cruiser pilots need to know they are unique. Battleship pilots need to know they are unique.
Here's what it would be nice to have:
small (short-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 3 - Motion Prediction 3 - Small turret 5
small (long-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 3 - sharpshooter 3 - Small turret 5
medium (short-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 4 - Motion prediction 4 - Medium turret 5
medium (long-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 4 - sharpshooter 4 - Medium turret 5
large (short-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 5 - Motion Prediction 5 - Large turret 5
large (long-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 5 - sharpshooter 5 - Large turret 5
Although it is true it would be too fast specializing...
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jukriamrr
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Posted - 2004.09.30 10:21:00 -
[238]
Edited by: jukriamrr on 30/09/2004 10:37:20 Edited by: jukriamrr on 30/09/2004 10:24:14 Edited by: jukriamrr on 30/09/2004 10:23:10 Signed again.
This makes a weapon class a mere prerequisite for any higher-size class.
ie:
- small is a prereq. for medium and large. - medium is a prereq for large.
Where is the pleasure (and gamer's pride) where the skills you spent 1 month traning are **only** a stepstone to something bigger?
To sum it up: Frigate pilots need to know they are unique. Cruiser pilots need to know they are unique. Battleship pilots need to know they are unique.
Here's what it would be nice to have:
small (short-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 3 - Motion Prediction 3 - Small turret 5
small (long-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 3 - sharpshooter 3 - Small turret 5
medium (short-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 4 - Motion prediction 4 - Medium turret 5
medium (long-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 4 - sharpshooter 4 - Medium turret 5
large (short-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 5 - Motion Prediction 5 - Large turret 5
large (long-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 5 - sharpshooter 5 - Large turret 5
Although it is true it would be too fast specializing...
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2004.09.30 13:35:00 -
[239]
Edited by: Manfred Doomhammer on 30/09/2004 13:37:09
Originally by: jukriamrr Edited by: jukriamrr on 30/09/2004 10:37:20 Edited by: jukriamrr on 30/09/2004 10:24:14 Edited by: jukriamrr on 30/09/2004 10:23:10 Signed again.
This makes a weapon class a mere prerequisite for any higher-size class.
ie:
- small is a prereq. for medium and large. - medium is a prereq for large.
Where is the pleasure (and gamer's pride) where the skills you spent 1 month traning are **only** a stepstone to something bigger?
To sum it up: Frigate pilots need to know they are unique. Cruiser pilots need to know they are unique. Battleship pilots need to know they are unique.
Here's what it would be nice to have:
small (short-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 3 - Motion Prediction 3 - Small turret 5
small (long-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 3 - sharpshooter 3 - Small turret 5
medium (short-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 4 - Motion prediction 4 - Medium turret 5
medium (long-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 4 - sharpshooter 4 - Medium turret 5
large (short-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 5 - Motion Prediction 5 - Large turret 5
large (long-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 5 - sharpshooter 5 - Large turret 5
Although it is true it would be too fast specializing...
sounds good, and in fact, it doesnt mean that specialising would be too fast.... simply up the rank of the specialising skill by a hefty bit... i dont want specialising to be shorter work, i just hate the thought that everyone going for large specialisation automatically has the small specialisation too... somehow cuts down the speciality of dedicated frigate- (or cruiser-) jockeys...
----
Manfred Doomhammer Fleet Admiral CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2004.09.30 13:35:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Manfred Doomhammer on 30/09/2004 13:37:09
Originally by: jukriamrr Edited by: jukriamrr on 30/09/2004 10:37:20 Edited by: jukriamrr on 30/09/2004 10:24:14 Edited by: jukriamrr on 30/09/2004 10:23:10 Signed again.
This makes a weapon class a mere prerequisite for any higher-size class.
ie:
- small is a prereq. for medium and large. - medium is a prereq for large.
Where is the pleasure (and gamer's pride) where the skills you spent 1 month traning are **only** a stepstone to something bigger?
To sum it up: Frigate pilots need to know they are unique. Cruiser pilots need to know they are unique. Battleship pilots need to know they are unique.
Here's what it would be nice to have:
small (short-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 3 - Motion Prediction 3 - Small turret 5
small (long-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 3 - sharpshooter 3 - Small turret 5
medium (short-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 4 - Motion prediction 4 - Medium turret 5
medium (long-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 4 - sharpshooter 4 - Medium turret 5
large (short-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 5 - Motion Prediction 5 - Large turret 5
large (long-range) turret specialisation - Gunnery 5 - sharpshooter 5 - Large turret 5
Although it is true it would be too fast specializing...
sounds good, and in fact, it doesnt mean that specialising would be too fast.... simply up the rank of the specialising skill by a hefty bit... i dont want specialising to be shorter work, i just hate the thought that everyone going for large specialisation automatically has the small specialisation too... somehow cuts down the speciality of dedicated frigate- (or cruiser-) jockeys...
----
Manfred Doomhammer Fleet Admiral CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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