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New Specialization Skills Are Contradictory

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DeerHunter GE	Posted - 2004.09.30 13:45:00 - [241] CCP, what do you think? I have to agree with this topic ! However, to bring in more time consuming skills for further advanced players is good....but this way its just to bad.... Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you!
DeerHunter GE	Posted - 2004.09.30 13:45:00 - [242] CCP, what do you think? I have to agree with this topic ! However, to bring in more time consuming skills for further advanced players is good....but this way its just to bad.... Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you!
Aneu Angellus	Posted - 2004.09.30 13:50:00 - [243] Edited by: Aneu Angellus on 30/09/2004 13:57:25 Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Antinea I agree with Joshua... I dont mind the time spent specialising. I dont mind having several lvl 5 prereqs like Sharpshooter, Motion prediction, etc. I do mind having to train Small Specilization to lvl 4 in order to get Medium Specialization. It is pointless, and makes no sense. Does anyone have Large Specialization yet? Im on Medium Hybrid Spec level 4, training 5 now, Then i can start training large Hybrid Spec level 1, i allready got Gallante BS 5 and Large Hybrid 5... ________________ Aneu Angellus Vengeance Of The Fallen - WolfPack Military Captain
Aneu Angellus	Posted - 2004.09.30 13:50:00 - [244] Edited by: Aneu Angellus on 30/09/2004 13:57:25 Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Antinea I agree with Joshua... I dont mind the time spent specialising. I dont mind having several lvl 5 prereqs like Sharpshooter, Motion prediction, etc. I do mind having to train Small Specilization to lvl 4 in order to get Medium Specialization. It is pointless, and makes no sense. Does anyone have Large Specialization yet? Im on Medium Hybrid Spec level 4, training 5 now, Then i can start training large Hybrid Spec level 1, i allready got Gallante BS 5 and Large Hybrid 5... ________________ Aneu Angellus Vengeance Of The Fallen - WolfPack Military Captain
jukriamrr	Posted - 2004.09.30 13:50:00 - [245] Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer somehow cuts down the speciality of dedicated frigate- (or cruiser-) jockeys... Don't tell me man....
jukriamrr	Posted - 2004.09.30 13:50:00 - [246] Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer somehow cuts down the speciality of dedicated frigate- (or cruiser-) jockeys... Don't tell me man....
shivan	Posted - 2004.09.30 14:43:00 - [247] Im a battleship piloit and think these new skills are good, not only does it mean i might have to wait a while before i can use something, but it means that i cant specilize in all the large guns in a couple of weeks, seeing as i got sharpshooter 5 before the guns where even on the market. Not to mention all the other skill i need to start specilizing in projectilles. Thing is, its not going for a certain size of gun, your specilizeing in a race of gun, then what type, so in my case im speclizing in projectilles, then either auto cannons or artys. Open your eyes and see what CCP are trying to do. I could learn large proctilles till i had learnt medium, and not medium till i had small, why shold specelizing in say large arty be any different, i need to know how to do them tricks with small guns and work my way up. Only my 2 cents and what i think, but hey, every1 else is entitled to ur own opipions. --------------------------------------- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
shivan	Posted - 2004.09.30 14:43:00 - [248] Im a battleship piloit and think these new skills are good, not only does it mean i might have to wait a while before i can use something, but it means that i cant specilize in all the large guns in a couple of weeks, seeing as i got sharpshooter 5 before the guns where even on the market. Not to mention all the other skill i need to start specilizing in projectilles. Thing is, its not going for a certain size of gun, your specilizeing in a race of gun, then what type, so in my case im speclizing in projectilles, then either auto cannons or artys. Open your eyes and see what CCP are trying to do. I could learn large proctilles till i had learnt medium, and not medium till i had small, why shold specelizing in say large arty be any different, i need to know how to do them tricks with small guns and work my way up. Only my 2 cents and what i think, but hey, every1 else is entitled to ur own opipions. --------------------------------------- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
BoBoZoBo	Posted - 2004.09.30 15:53:00 - [249] Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 30/09/2004 16:00:08 Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 30/09/2004 15:59:25 How can you master bigger and better if you have not mastered the small and easy? You think that you could be a good at hyperdimetional physics if you could not master addition? or fly a spaceshuttle without the ablilty to be a badss in a cropduster? or start college without graduating highschool? or leatrn advanced hand combat without basic physical endurance? or handle high-power/ high-calible weapons without being a hotshot with smaller arms? You need to master the basics before you can be good at the advanced stuff. CCPs logic is understandable. ========================= Operator 9*
BoBoZoBo	Posted - 2004.09.30 15:53:00 - [250] Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 30/09/2004 16:00:08 Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 30/09/2004 15:59:25 How can you master bigger and better if you have not mastered the small and easy? You think that you could be a good at hyperdimetional physics if you could not master addition? or fly a spaceshuttle without the ablilty to be a badss in a cropduster? or start college without graduating highschool? or leatrn advanced hand combat without basic physical endurance? or handle high-power/ high-calible weapons without being a hotshot with smaller arms? You need to master the basics before you can be good at the advanced stuff. CCPs logic is understandable. ========================= Operator 9*
jukriamrr	Posted - 2004.09.30 16:02:00 - [251] Originally by: BoBoZoBo Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 30/09/2004 16:00:08 Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 30/09/2004 15:59:25 How can you master bigger and better if you have not mastered the small and easy? You think that you could be a good at hyperdimetional physics if you could not master addition? or fly a spaceshuttle without the ablilty to be a badss in a cropduster? or start college without graduating highschool? or leatrn advanced hand combat without basic physical endurance? or handle high-power/ high-calible weapons without being a hotshot with smaller arms? You need to master the basics before you can be good at the advanced stuff. CCPs logic is understandable. The usefulness of RL analogies apart... Probably not, but you can learn how to: - fire a stinger without ever touching a M-16 - fire a M-60 without ever touching a M-16 - fire a M-16 without ever touching a gloack pistol - fly a plane without knowing how to bike... It's not plausible, it's possible*
jukriamrr	Posted - 2004.09.30 16:02:00 - [252] Originally by: BoBoZoBo Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 30/09/2004 16:00:08 Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 30/09/2004 15:59:25 How can you master bigger and better if you have not mastered the small and easy? You think that you could be a good at hyperdimetional physics if you could not master addition? or fly a spaceshuttle without the ablilty to be a badss in a cropduster? or start college without graduating highschool? or leatrn advanced hand combat without basic physical endurance? or handle high-power/ high-calible weapons without being a hotshot with smaller arms? You need to master the basics before you can be good at the advanced stuff. CCPs logic is understandable. The usefulness of RL analogies apart... Probably not, but you can learn how to: - fire a stinger without ever touching a M-16 - fire a M-60 without ever touching a M-16 - fire a M-16 without ever touching a gloack pistol - fly a plane without knowing how to bike... It's not plausible, it's possible*
BoBoZoBo	Posted - 2004.09.30 16:16:00 - [253] Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 30/09/2004 16:22:02 I fail to see how the analogy applies, Please note how I stayed in the same category Bikes and airplanes are apples and oranges. bikes to motorbikes maybe. M-60, M-16, Stinger systems and a Glock pistol are all considered small arms so yes, you would do those things, but you would still probably have a good understanding to small arms theory The question is would you handle the next size up wihout at least an good understanding and experience with the previous class. Anything is "possible" but on the average when playing with fire like that, you wanna know what the hell you are doing. Yes, that is RL and this is a game, there should ba a modifyer once you get to a certain level that increases the speed of lower calibre (not level) skills in the same category. But to say that specializing in something means that you should not have to learn the lower end of the skill is rediculous. If you SPECIALIZE in a certain type of medicine do you stop learining biology? NO.. you learn MORE of the basics so you can sharpen your specialization. ========================= Operator 9
BoBoZoBo	Posted - 2004.09.30 16:16:00 - [254] Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 30/09/2004 16:22:02 I fail to see how the analogy applies, Please note how I stayed in the same category Bikes and airplanes are apples and oranges. bikes to motorbikes maybe. M-60, M-16, Stinger systems and a Glock pistol are all considered small arms so yes, you would do those things, but you would still probably have a good understanding to small arms theory The question is would you handle the next size up wihout at least an good understanding and experience with the previous class. Anything is "possible" but on the average when playing with fire like that, you wanna know what the hell you are doing. Yes, that is RL and this is a game, there should ba a modifyer once you get to a certain level that increases the speed of lower calibre (not level) skills in the same category. But to say that specializing in something means that you should not have to learn the lower end of the skill is rediculous. If you SPECIALIZE in a certain type of medicine do you stop learining biology? NO.. you learn MORE of the basics so you can sharpen your specialization. ========================= Operator 9
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:02:00 - [255] Real life analogies aside, the current specialization training method brings us back to a situation wherein a battleship pilot can do everything. It doesn't make a battleship specialized. It makes him an all-rounder. Only a frigate pilot could be considered specialized because he only has to train the first step to receive his advantage. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:02:00 - [256] Real life analogies aside, the current specialization training method brings us back to a situation wherein a battleship pilot can do everything. It doesn't make a battleship specialized. It makes him an all-rounder. Only a frigate pilot could be considered specialized because he only has to train the first step to receive his advantage. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Number SixtyNine	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:03:00 - [257] "I fail to see how the analogy applies, Please note how I stayed in the same category" To stay on the 'same category' ground, the requirements are along the lines of requiring the would-be pilot of advanced, large passenger jets to first master the acrobatics with single-person plane. The pilot in question is expected to know how to fly a small plane. They are not expected to be ultimate expert in subjects relating strictly to these small planes, though. That's the difference between requiring specialization in the subject, and familiarity with the subject. "But to say that specializing in something means that you should not have to learn the lower end of the skill is rediculous. If you SPECIALIZE in a certain type of medicine do you stop learining biology? NO.. you learn MORE of the basics so you can sharpen your specialization." It's not what people are saying; having to learn lower end in order to specialize in the higher end is something very different from having to specialize in lower end in order to specialize in higher end. To use your analogy, it's like requiring expert in pediatrics to first become expert in gynaecology because hey, both concern the children so one should first become the expert on where they come from, right..? ;s
Number SixtyNine	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:03:00 - [258] "I fail to see how the analogy applies, Please note how I stayed in the same category" To stay on the 'same category' ground, the requirements are along the lines of requiring the would-be pilot of advanced, large passenger jets to first master the acrobatics with single-person plane. The pilot in question is expected to know how to fly a small plane. They are not expected to be ultimate expert in subjects relating strictly to these small planes, though. That's the difference between requiring specialization in the subject, and familiarity with the subject. "But to say that specializing in something means that you should not have to learn the lower end of the skill is rediculous. If you SPECIALIZE in a certain type of medicine do you stop learining biology? NO.. you learn MORE of the basics so you can sharpen your specialization." It's not what people are saying; having to learn lower end in order to specialize in the higher end is something very different from having to specialize in lower end in order to specialize in higher end. To use your analogy, it's like requiring expert in pediatrics to first become expert in gynaecology because hey, both concern the children so one should first become the expert on where they come from, right..? ;s
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:05:00 - [259] j0? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:05:00 - [260] j0? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Number SixtyNine	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:17:00 - [261] ;p 'tis what you get for not training "Specialization: Forum Whoring, Corporation Discussions" all way to lvl.5 ... some info goes unnoticed -.^
Number SixtyNine	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:17:00 - [262] ;p 'tis what you get for not training "Specialization: Forum Whoring, Corporation Discussions" all way to lvl.5 ... some info goes unnoticed -.^
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:20:00 - [263] Originally by: Number SixtyNine ;p 'tis what you get for not training "Specialization: Forum Whoring, Corporation Discussions" all way to lvl.5 ... some info goes unnoticed -.^ Glad to see you're back. If you need anything to help you get back into the swing of things, just send me an evemail. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:20:00 - [264] Originally by: Number SixtyNine ;p 'tis what you get for not training "Specialization: Forum Whoring, Corporation Discussions" all way to lvl.5 ... some info goes unnoticed -.^ Glad to see you're back. If you need anything to help you get back into the swing of things, just send me an evemail. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Number SixtyNine	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:34:00 - [265] Nahh, not back really atm... might try to reactivate the main after Shiva thingie, but it's just trial account so i'd post ;s But thanks, if i do check back will take liberty to pester you with some noobie questions.. ^^ ("hey am in New Caldari, wtf did the stargate to Nonni go o.O; <-- me, yesterday >>;
Number SixtyNine	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:34:00 - [266] Nahh, not back really atm... might try to reactivate the main after Shiva thingie, but it's just trial account so i'd post ;s But thanks, if i do check back will take liberty to pester you with some noobie questions.. ^^ ("hey am in New Caldari, wtf did the stargate to Nonni go o.O; <-- me, yesterday >>;
BoBoZoBo	Posted - 2004.09.30 18:52:00 - [267] I agree with what you are saying, but I must admit you are wrong. The author was indicating small hybrids with larger ones, they are in a direct line with one another. Your would be right if he had to train small hybrids in order to train a high general weapons skill, but that is not the case. As far as the analogies, you and I are saying the same thing, but you analysis is tainted and shortened in order to support your thesis But, if you need to be right, so be it. My apologies, ========================= Operator 9
BoBoZoBo	Posted - 2004.09.30 18:52:00 - [268] I agree with what you are saying, but I must admit you are wrong. The author was indicating small hybrids with larger ones, they are in a direct line with one another. Your would be right if he had to train small hybrids in order to train a high general weapons skill, but that is not the case. As far as the analogies, you and I are saying the same thing, but you analysis is tainted and shortened in order to support your thesis But, if you need to be right, so be it. My apologies, ========================= Operator 9
Kaleigh Doyle	Posted - 2004.09.30 19:24:00 - [269] Edited by: Kaleigh Doyle on 30/09/2004 19:27:11 Just a silly question, but with the recent changes to turret tracking and all, hasn't CCP encouraged the usage of multiple gun sizes on a battleship(obviously depending on your roles)? Wouldn't it be advantageous for a Battleship pilots to have better skills in the smaller guns as well?(i.e. to be an effective battleship pilot, you'll prolly wanna specialize in the smaller guns) Perhaps it was a subtle suggestion on the devs part. (edited for english readers ) Glamour Bunnies Entertainment Corporation
Kaleigh Doyle	Posted - 2004.09.30 19:24:00 - [270] Edited by: Kaleigh Doyle on 30/09/2004 19:27:11 Just a silly question, but with the recent changes to turret tracking and all, hasn't CCP encouraged the usage of multiple gun sizes on a battleship(obviously depending on your roles)? Wouldn't it be advantageous for a Battleship pilots to have better skills in the smaller guns as well?(i.e. to be an effective battleship pilot, you'll prolly wanna specialize in the smaller guns) Perhaps it was a subtle suggestion on the devs part. (edited for english readers ) Glamour Bunnies Entertainment Corporation

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