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Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 20:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
The idea is simple, A sub capital ship about the size of an Orca, that can use jump gates, can go in high sec, and DOES NOT have a jump drive. It can field five fighters, or drones. Does not have a corp hanger or ship maintenance array. Cannot fit triage module. The point is to have a ship that can provide the gameplay style of a carrier pilot, without the capital ship. Cost should be between 400-500 million isk.
Should have a drone capacity of 25500, this allows for 5 fighters with 500 extra for drones.
The bonuses on it should be similar to the carrier as far as logistics is concerned, but not able to fit capital shield/armor/cap relays, instead allow them to fit BS/logistics sized modules with a bonus to range and maybe a bonus to cycle time. It should not have a large bonus to fighter damage. It is not designed to be a smaller package of equal kick-assery to full fledged carriers. More like a BS tank combined with a logistics ship and the ability to field a single flight of fighters.
Caveat: I am not a carrier pilot, I am a logistics pilot and I feel there is a gap here that could be fun to play. This thread is not a "give me cap ships before I am ready" or a "fix 0.0 fights by adding _____ ship" thread. It is just an idea that I think would be fun to play, so please keep the flames to a minimum. Also, the stats I posted are obviously open for discussion and balancing. I am just curious if a light carrier idea is viable and if people think it would be fun or not. |

Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar Intrepid Crossing
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 21:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
I dislike the idea of fighters in hisec due to their ability to warp around. Perhaps give it the carrier bonus of +1 drone per level but restrict it to heavies. Ie 10 drones at max level. However in all other respects I do quite like your proposal. I speak only for myself and my corp. My views are not representative of my alliance. |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 21:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Christopher AET wrote:I dislike the idea of fighters in hisec due to their ability to warp around. Perhaps give it the carrier bonus of +1 drone per level but restrict it to heavies. Ie 10 drones at max level. However in all other respects I do quite like your proposal.
I can see your point, Ability to use more drones instead of using fighters due to the warping thing.
Could this also be solved by preventing fighters from warping in high sec? Not sure how this could be accomplished. |

XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
243
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 21:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
No. Use a dominix.
If you want to play with big ships and "higher end content" you'll need to leave the Concord blanket at home. |

PinkKnife
The Scope Gallente Federation
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 21:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Outside of the "fun" argument, what role does this ship serve? How does it fit inbetween the current ships? |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 21:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:No. Use a dominix.
If you want to play with big ships and "higher end content" you'll need to leave the Concord blanket at home.
A dominix is a BS with drone bonus's. Not the same thing.
Also, I am not under a concord blanket, nor am I talking about "higher end content" Please read my "caveat" from my OP.
PinkKnife wrote: Outside of the "fun" argument, what role does this ship serve? How does it fit inbetween the current ships?
More versatile than a logi, more mobile than a carrier, less expensive than a carrier in both cost and skills, less effective at logistics than a pure logi.
And, its a game, does it need more than just "fun" if it works? I thought the point of the game was to "have fun" |

Felsusguy
Try-Cycle Mining Industry
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 21:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
I love this idea.
That is all.
Good work. |

Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 21:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
It's too overpowered for high sec as it's unchallenged, OP ofcourse knows this and tries to hide this by calling it "fun". |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 21:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:It's too overpowered for high sec as it's unchallenged, OP ofcourse knows this and tries to hide this by calling it "fun".
If it does about the damage of a BS, and can do some logistics, with a commiserate price tag associated, how is that overpowered or unchallenged?
If a Battleship can fight it, then it is not "unchallenged"
|

Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
486
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 22:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:It's too overpowered for high sec as it's unchallenged, OP ofcourse knows this and tries to hide this by calling it "fun". If it does about the damage of a BS, and can do some logistics, with a commiserate price tag associated, how is that overpowered or unchallenged? If a Battleship can fight it, then it is not "unchallenged"
It can do that damage while hiding in a safespot though.
Maybe if it had BS tank, restrictions on the range of it's fighters (IE unable to assign them or use them out of regular drone control range) and an actual purpose. |

Danel Tosh
EVE Protection Agency Intrepid Crossing
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 22:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Good Idea +1
I would love to fly one. what about a T2 version? Since its not a capital we could get a T2 version of this setup too. |

Danel Tosh
EVE Protection Agency Intrepid Crossing
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 22:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
as far as roles are concerned, I could use this in cap chain fleets to run difficult missions or sites. As far as pvp is concerned these ships could support regualar logistics ships. they could also support larger BS fleets as well, thier ability jump through gates and stay with other subcaps helps them in this role.
I think there should be somthing else to these ships though to separate them form traditional carriers and battleships more.
|

Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
244
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 22:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
My thoughts.
For each lvl of the skill required to fly this ship, you gain the ability to fit one drone control unit.
This means at lvl 5 you're able to fit 5, for a max of ten drones, but DOES NOT use fighters.
With a full flight of 10 drones is should have comperable dps to battleships, and also have comperable tank.
That, or they can be fitted with logistics, but due to their shorter range than logis and less bonuses to rep output, they don't replace logis. |

Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar Intrepid Crossing
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 00:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:My thoughts.
For each lvl of the skill required to fly this ship, you gain the ability to fit one drone control unit.
DCU's are already governed by the advanced drone interfacing skill. Plus DCU's are a capital sized mod. However +1 drone per level would be a more appropriate way of going about it without the DCU. I'm still against allowing it to deploy fighters though.
I speak only for myself and my corp. My views are not representative of my alliance. |

XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
244
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 00:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote: Also, I am not under a concord blanket, nor am I talking about "higher end content" Please read my "caveat" from my OP.
you want carrier like abilities in high sec
how about no? |

Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
150
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 01:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:Outside of the "fun" argument, what role does this ship serve? How does it fit inbetween the current ships? A pure drone ship for highsec.
There isn't one, it's an obvious hole, especially for Gallente who theoretically have drones as their racial weapon.
It should be roughly equal in net power to current BS's (but without guns or missiles). |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 02:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Loius Woo wrote: Also, I am not under a concord blanket, nor am I talking about "higher end content" Please read my "caveat" from my OP.
you want carrier like abilities in high sec how about no?
Actually, I want it for roaming gangs in null, but it doesn't make sense to restrict it to null sec if it can jump through gates.
Dont assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a high sec care bear.
Your opinion regarding the idea has been made clear. You don't win points by continuing to make it over and over. Thanks for playing. |

Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
244
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 02:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
Christopher AET wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:My thoughts.
For each lvl of the skill required to fly this ship, you gain the ability to fit one drone control unit.
DCU's are already governed by the advanced drone interfacing skill. Plus DCU's are a capital sized mod. However +1 drone per level would be a more appropriate way of going about it without the DCU. I'm still against allowing it to deploy fighters though.
My reasoning behind this is because it forces the player to either decide to be logistics with only 5 drones, or to be a heavy drone boat.
In allowing them to fit logistics AND have a fleet of 10 drones is a bit OP. However, not giving them high slots would be detrimental. |

Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
216
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 03:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
I've liked the idea for a while. The concept of a light carrier though should not be confused with the existing carrier, really I find it's closer to the supercarrier.
A ship designed to launch 5 drones or fighters and only that. Very few high slots (2 or 3 at most) and no other "carrier" abilities. Fighters cannot be assigned to other pilots, but can follow in warp to prevent what would become the ubiquitous highsec carrier alt.
I'm sure with a few small scripting changes, they missions could easily make assault frigate NPCs primary fighters over everything else as well.
Also, consider that they would be flying fully unbonused fighters at standard drone range. |

El Geo
Pathfinders. Mining For Profit Alliance
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 12:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
i like the idea of a combat orientated orca or "mini-carrier", something that can use gates and some of the smaller wormholes but the op's idea doesnt fit that bill for me, and i think it should cost more than an orca.
no ore bay reduced corp hanger and cargo hold size drone bay increased (maybe so it can only use 5xheavies but the option for drone control mod) reduced structure but higher base resists for shield and armour slot layout change, maybe 4/4/4
tbh theres a bunch of ship ideas floating about that sound useful and fun, lots of players use the orca as a sort of modile office but i expect if it could defend itself better they would use it for combat aswell, most of the ideas i'd like to see are based in ships that people already use but arent able to be used properly for that role, like cloaky dictors (covert dictors) after all, if its got an application that people already use it for but cant push it any farther surely some corporation would see it as marketable
/me shrugs, thats my two pence |

Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
187
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 15:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1 drone per level is almost the same as +20% drone damage per level (as with drone interfacing)
Take a Domi, give up its guns and buff the drone bonus from 10 to 20, and you now have a BS ship fielding the equivalent of 10 drones worth of firepower.
I'd see a light carrier as something that is meant to deploy smaller craft to fight for it - it wouldn't be an oversized logi, or a mobile base.
-No capital reps, no capability similar to T2 logis -No ship hangar/clone vat/etc
Just a large drone bay for deploying smaller ships that must stay near the light carrier. I suppose you could make a "Light Fighter" that is like a normal fighter, but lacks a warp drive.
Or you could just make it an ++ber-drone boat.
How about this: Role bonus: +50 km to drone control range Bonus #1: +10% to drone damage, HP, speed, combat utility drone effect strength (tps, energy drain, web, jam, etc), and repair amount per level Bonus #2: +1 to max drone control per level
So at lvl 5, you field 10 drones doing 1.5x the damage of normal drones (or with 1.5x the repair amount for shield/armor maintenance bots, or 1.5x the TP/energy drain/sensor damp. web effectiveness) going 1.5x faster
With max skills, those drones have a base control range of 110 km
I'm not sure how you'd very a light carrier by race, or what non-racial faction would produce it... a vessel made by ORE for deep space patrol of their mining fields?
Maybe we make a new class of T2 combat BS's, and this is the Gallente design? I don't think it would work like that - it would be **** in fleets, but whatever non-drone T2 BS you give to the other races will probably be pretty good in fleets (unless the caldari one is a missile boat) |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 16:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:+1 drone per level is almost the same as +20% drone damage per level (as with drone interfacing)
Take a Domi, give up its guns and buff the drone bonus from 10 to 20, and you now have a BS ship fielding the equivalent of 10 drones worth of firepower.
I'd see a light carrier as something that is meant to deploy smaller craft to fight for it - it wouldn't be an oversized logi, or a mobile base.
-No capital reps, no capability similar to T2 logis -No ship hangar/clone vat/etc
Just a large drone bay for deploying smaller ships that must stay near the light carrier. I suppose you could make a "Light Fighter" that is like a normal fighter, but lacks a warp drive.
Or you could just make it an ++ber-drone boat.
How about this: Role bonus: +50 km to drone control range Bonus #1: +10% to drone damage, HP, speed, combat utility drone effect strength (tps, energy drain, web, jam, etc), and repair amount per level Bonus #2: +1 to max drone control per level
So at lvl 5, you field 10 drones doing 1.5x the damage of normal drones (or with 1.5x the repair amount for shield/armor maintenance bots, or 1.5x the TP/energy drain/sensor damp. web effectiveness) going 1.5x faster
With max skills, those drones have a base control range of 110 km
I'm not sure how you'd very a light carrier by race, or what non-racial faction would produce it... a vessel made by ORE for deep space patrol of their mining fields?
Maybe we make a new class of T2 combat BS's, and this is the Gallente design? I don't think it would work like that - it would be **** in fleets, but whatever non-drone T2 BS you give to the other races will probably be pretty good in fleets (unless the caldari one is a missile boat)
I personally am more for the "light fighter" that can't warp idea than I am for the "every race gets a drone boat BS" Idea.
The original point was to be able to provide "some" of the carrier abilities at a reduced level to roaming gangs where it can keep up since it can jump through gates.
I might also be amenable to the idea of a sub cap with a very large drone bandwidth and boosts to all assigned drones and a boost to sensor res so that there would be a good reason to have all in fleet assign drones to it and have it be able to warp with others drones, all of this instead of having "light fighters." That is just an idea a friend of mine threw out yesterday.
EDIT: So for clarity, a ship that is designed to be able to take control of a large group of friendly drones and warp with them, providing its own boosts to damage, range, HP etc of the drones. This light carrier should also have SOME logistics abilities IMO or it just doesn't do enough to be included. |

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
618
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 16:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Use a Dominix, as stupid idea is stupid. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Use a Dominix, as stupid idea is stupid.
As I said to the last "use a dominix" post, they are different things. If you had read the thread you would know that.
Thanks for your input. |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1453
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote:The idea is simple, A sub capital ship about the size of an Orca, that can use jump gates, can go in high sec, and DOES NOT have a jump drive. It can field five fighters, or drones. Does not have a corp hanger or ship maintenance array. Cannot fit triage module. The point is to have a ship that can provide the gameplay style of a carrier pilot, without the capital ship. Cost should be between 400-500 million isk.
Should have a drone capacity of 25500, this allows for 5 fighters with 500 extra for drones.
The bonuses on it should be similar to the carrier as far as logistics is concerned, but not able to fit capital shield/armor/cap relays, instead allow them to fit BS/logistics sized modules with a bonus to range and maybe a bonus to cycle time. It should not have a large bonus to fighter damage. It is not designed to be a smaller package of equal kick-assery to full fledged carriers. More like a BS tank combined with a logistics ship and the ability to field a single flight of fighters.
Caveat: I am not a carrier pilot, I am a logistics pilot and I feel there is a gap here that could be fun to play. This thread is not a "give me cap ships before I am ready" or a "fix 0.0 fights by adding _____ ship" thread. It is just an idea that I think would be fun to play, so please keep the flames to a minimum. Also, the stats I posted are obviously open for discussion and balancing. I am just curious if a light carrier idea is viable and if people think it would be fun or not.
Nah.
Rather give us more carrier hulls. |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Loius Woo wrote:The idea is simple, A sub capital ship about the size of an Orca, that can use jump gates, can go in high sec, and DOES NOT have a jump drive. It can field five fighters, or drones. Does not have a corp hanger or ship maintenance array. Cannot fit triage module. The point is to have a ship that can provide the gameplay style of a carrier pilot, without the capital ship. Cost should be between 400-500 million isk.
Should have a drone capacity of 25500, this allows for 5 fighters with 500 extra for drones.
The bonuses on it should be similar to the carrier as far as logistics is concerned, but not able to fit capital shield/armor/cap relays, instead allow them to fit BS/logistics sized modules with a bonus to range and maybe a bonus to cycle time. It should not have a large bonus to fighter damage. It is not designed to be a smaller package of equal kick-assery to full fledged carriers. More like a BS tank combined with a logistics ship and the ability to field a single flight of fighters.
Caveat: I am not a carrier pilot, I am a logistics pilot and I feel there is a gap here that could be fun to play. This thread is not a "give me cap ships before I am ready" or a "fix 0.0 fights by adding _____ ship" thread. It is just an idea that I think would be fun to play, so please keep the flames to a minimum. Also, the stats I posted are obviously open for discussion and balancing. I am just curious if a light carrier idea is viable and if people think it would be fun or not. Nah. Rather give us more carrier hulls.
You mean like a tier 2 carrier? So each race has 2 carriers? I don't see the point, but I am not a carrier pilot so I may not be in the know enough to see it. |

XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
246
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote: Actually, I want it for roaming gangs in null, but it doesn't make sense to restrict it to null sec if it can jump through gates.
Dont assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a high sec care bear.
Your opinion regarding the idea has been made clear. You don't win points by continuing to make it over and over. Thanks for playing.
You must be new to posting.
The idea is bad and this thread is bad and you should feel bad. |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Loius Woo wrote: Actually, I want it for roaming gangs in null, but it doesn't make sense to restrict it to null sec if it can jump through gates.
Dont assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a high sec care bear.
Your opinion regarding the idea has been made clear. You don't win points by continuing to make it over and over. Thanks for playing.
You must be new to posting. The idea is bad and this thread is bad and you should feel bad.
Your opinion regarding the idea has been made clear. You don't win points by continuing to make it over and over. Thanks for playing.
Also, after perusing your 26 pages of posts in the forums it is clear that you have never contributed to any discussion you have dropped into ever. |

XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
246
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote: Also, after perusing your 26 pages of posts in the forums it is clear that you have never contributed to any discussion you have dropped into ever. /hide posts. Done.
hahahahahahaha
oh so little you know
you're adorable, can i keep you? |

Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
245
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 18:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Loius Woo wrote: Also, after perusing your 26 pages of posts in the forums it is clear that you have never contributed to any discussion you have dropped into ever. /hide posts. Done.
hahahahahahaha oh so little you know you're adorable, can i keep you?
Hey sketch, good to see you back and trolling again. Its been a while. |
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