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Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.05.12 07:17:00 -
[91] - Quote
Marwolaeth Arglwydd wrote:Reading these posts reminded me of the "create a starship" contest that was run on deviantArt a while ago. Some one came up with an idea very close to this. http://kero40.deviantart.com/The Escort Carrier...
Heck, they even look the perfect part of a battleship sized light carrier. "Escort carrier" is a good term for their role too.
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XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 07:18:00 -
[92] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:
The ones I can think of that did fill a role that was needed Rorqual Dreads Logistics Interceptors Interdictors Heavy interdictors Industrial ships
Yeah, jump freighters don't have a role. Tier 3 BCs? Yeah no role Freighters? You're right, they were just put in for fun. Black ops bs? Yeah, they were put in game for giggles
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XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 07:20:00 -
[93] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:
If every ship put into Eve was required to fill a needed role, there wouldn't be any ships in Eve, and their certainly wouldn't be capitals. Ships are features of Eve, not necessities and role fillers.
This statement just shows a blatant failure to understand the game on a larger scale.
What exactly do you do in Eve?
Spaceships and spaceship combat and thus spaceship roles and balancing are literally the core components of Eve. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
257
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:00:00 -
[94] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:I'm really bad at posting.
Cute...and also immature..
Quote:I like the part where its me trolling when you disagree with me, but me being perfectly fine when you agree with me.
Hint: you're not very smart.
and each of those ships you listed? fills a role
I've yet to see a role that this proposed ship fills
No, I didn't call you a troll because I disagreed with you, I called you a troll because you're disagreeing simply for the sake of disagreeing. Again, you have not served up a valid argument. All you keep saying is "it doesn't fill a role.", which isn't a valid arguement because, as I've said, very few ships that were put into Eve were put there because they NEEDED to fill a specific role.
Quote:Yeah, jump freighters don't have a role. Tier 3 BCs? Yeah no role Freighters? You're right, they were just put in for fun. Black ops bs? Yeah, they were put in game for giggles
They didn't fill a role that was NEEDED.... the NEEDED was the part that you NEEDED to notice. I didn't say they didn't fill a role, I said they didn't fill a role that was NEEDED.
We didn't NEED tier 3 bc's We didn't NEED freighters We really didn't NEED Black ops bs's
Quote:This statement just shows a blatant failure to understand the game on a larger scale.
What exactly do you do in Eve?
Spaceships and spaceship combat and thus spaceship roles and balancing are literally the core components of Eve.
Thus making them a key FEATURE of Eve.
Perhaps I should define FEATURE for you......
fea-+ture GÇé GÇé[fee-cher] Show IPA noun, verb, fea-+tured, fea-+tur-+ing.
noun 1. a prominent or conspicuous part or characteristic: Tall buildings were a new feature on the skyline.
2. something offered as a special attraction: This model has several added features.
3. Also called feature film . the main motion picture in a movie program: What time is the feature?
4. any part of the face, as the nose, chin, or eyes: prominent features.
5. features, the face; countenance: to compose one's features for the photographers.
What I do in Eve is fly spaceships which is a key FEATURE of Eve. |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:02:00 -
[95] - Quote
Whether the role was "needed" or not is irrelevant.
You or anyone else in this thread has yet to say what this ships role is. What this ship adds. What role is missing that ship would fill besides "haha wouldn't it be cool if..."
also, Iol at the definitions
my point was that you noted ships as being nothing more than just another "feature," implying that the roles they serve aren't very important, when its the complete opposite; their roles are key to the game |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:08:00 -
[96] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote: If every ship put into Eve was required to fill a needed role, there wouldn't be any ships in Eve, and their certainly wouldn't be capitals. Ships are features of Eve, not necessities and role fillers.
.
This is the relevant part where you are mistaken.
You're right. No roles are "needed." But, ships nonetheless have roles. They fill a purpose that was otherwise not filled.
Ships are not just "shiny features" of Eve. They are literally the core components of Eve. Ships need to have roles in order to fit into the game.
Now, answer my question. What role does the propose ship fill? How does it fit into the game besides "it'd be cool if..." What role is missing that this ship would fill? |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
257
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:13:00 -
[97] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Whether the role was "needed" or not is irrelevant.
No, it is not irrelevant because creating a ship for a role that was not "needed" is no different than creating ships for sheer awesomeness and entertainment value.
Quote:You or anyone else in this thread has yet to say what this ships role is. What this ship adds. What role is missing that ship would fill besides "haha wouldn't it be cool if..."
The original ships put into Eve were put their simply for the "haha, wouldn't it be cool if..." factor. If CCP had gone through every ship they put in game from the begining saying "Hmm, this ship is cool, but what role does it fill?" Then they would have never been able to make Eve. They had to start with the "cool" factor and go from there. None of the original ships released with Eve were released because they "needed" to fill a role. They were just cool.
Quote:also, Iol at the definitions
my point was that you noted ships as being nothing more than just another "feature," implying that the roles they serve aren't very important, when its the complete opposite; their roles are key to the game
No, not every ship in Eve has roles that are key to the game. Dreads, sure Rorqual, sure industrials and transports, sure carriers, not really supercarriers, not at all (almost been nerfed out of the game) Titans, absolutely not (they've been nerfed to nothing more than a capital anti-capital)
What I'm saying overall is that if CCP were to discredit every ship design in Eve that wasn't needed to fill a role, then there would basically be no ships in Eve because the ones with needed roles are only there because of the ones without needed roles. |
Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:18:00 -
[98] - Quote
"Haha wouldn't it be cool if..." is the entire basis of creating games to begin with. >.> |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
257
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:20:00 -
[99] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Joe Risalo wrote: If every ship put into Eve was required to fill a needed role, there wouldn't be any ships in Eve, and their certainly wouldn't be capitals. Ships are features of Eve, not necessities and role fillers.
. This is the relevant part where you are mistaken. You're right. No roles are "needed." But, ships nonetheless have roles. They fill a purpose that was otherwise not filled. Ships are not just "shiny features" of Eve. They are literally the core components of Eve. Ships need to have roles in order to fit into the game. Now, answer my question. What role does the propose ship fill? How does it fit into the game besides "it'd be cool if..." What role is missing that this ship would fill?
what role does the drake fill? What role does the raven fill? Megathron? Hyperion? Dominix? Wait, how about the Abaddon? Caracal? Harbinger? Uhh, maybe Maelstrom? etc. etc. etc., through the entire list of t1 ships. Wait, what about faction a pirate ships? What roles do they fill? Maybe the "cool" or "fun" factor roles?
You keep trying to throw out this crap about roles, but you continuously fail to realize that MANY ships in Eve still don't serve a role, and many of those that do have roles that are only there because of these ships that don't.
Xhaiden Ora wrote: "Haha wouldn't it be cool if..." is the entire basis of creating games to begin with. >.>
My point exactly.... |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:31:00 -
[100] - Quote
Its like talking to a wall with you...
Okay. I'll post a thread tomorrow asking for a frigate that can use battleship guns and covert cloaks.
Its a cool idea I think and it'd be fun to have. |
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
257
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:33:00 -
[101] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Its like talking to a wall with you...
Okay. I'll post a thread tomorrow asking for a frigate that can use battleship guns and covert cloaks.
Its a cool idea I think and it'd be fun to have.
lol... WOW....terrible terrible attempt.
Those exist...they're called stealth bombers.
lol...see...It sounded like a cool idea, and poof, there it is.... |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:35:00 -
[102] - Quote
what role does the drake fill? cheap damage at long range, shield tanking ship; can also be used for close brawler engagements
What role does the raven fill? meh, long range damage ship; needs work IMO
Megathron? brawler, awesome damage, with microjumpdrives could open up a whole new doctrine
Hyperion? needs work but does great damage; local tank bonus is kind of stupid
Dominix? great drone boat, can use highs as utilities, i.e. neuts or RR
Wait, how about the Abaddon? amazing tank and great damage; stay tuned for a new doctrine forming around this beast
Caracal? long range, cheap anti frigate boat with AML
Harbinger? I don't know much about this ship, admittedly
Uhh, maybe Maelstrom? literally an entire doctrine around this ship right now, called alphafleet...high alpha damage at range
would you like a lesson on any other ships? |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:35:00 -
[103] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote: lol... WOW....terrible terrible attempt.
Those exist...they're called stealth bombers.
lol...see...It sounded like a cool idea, and poof, there it is....
it was a joke bro
notice they fill a role |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:37:00 -
[104] - Quote
And a really important role I might add. Stealth bombers can literally turn the tide of a battle.
Again, they have a role.
Answer my question: what role does the proposed ship fill that is currently missing in eve? |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
257
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:45:00 -
[105] - Quote
what role does the drake fill? cheap damage at long range, shield tanking ship; can also be used for close brawler engagements - Not a role, it's a design
What role does the raven fill? meh, long range damage ship; needs work IMO - no role, and does need work
Megathron? brawler, awesome damage, with microjumpdrives could open up a whole new doctrine - again, not a role
Hyperion? needs work but does great damage; local tank bonus is kind of stupid - not a role
Dominix? great drone boat, can use highs as utilities, i.e. neuts or RR - not a role (also, you just explained the mini carrier design we're talking about, only the subject design has more drone focus....Weird)
Wait, how about the Abaddon? amazing tank and great damage; stay tuned for a new doctrine forming around this beast - also not a role
Caracal? long range, cheap anti frigate boat with AML - Ehh, anti-frig is a role, but since frigs can take out other frigs, not a needed role
Harbinger? I don't know much about this ship, admittedly - It's basically just another ship with a design that doesn't fill a specific or needed role
Uhh, maybe Maelstrom? literally an entire doctrine around this ship right now, called alphafleet...high alpha damage at range - Sniper boat is a weak attempt at a role, but i'll be nice and consider it a role.. However, not a needed role...
Quote:would you like a lesson on any other ships?
It also stated the entire list of t1 ships, faction, and pirate ships.
Sure, I wouldn't mind a lesson on ships that weren't designed to fill a specific role. Last time I checked, CCP had stated that t1 ships were designed not to fill a specific role and to be more versatile, while t2 ships were designed to fill a specific role.
So, what role does this ship design fill? Perhaps a t1 role? |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:51:00 -
[106] - Quote
:psyduck: |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:51:00 -
[107] - Quote
You literally just don't get it. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
257
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 08:52:00 -
[108] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:And a really important role I might add. Stealth bombers can literally turn the tide of a battle.
Again, they have a role.
Answer my question: what role does the proposed ship fill that is currently missing in eve?
Agreed, bombers to fill a very valid role. They're one of the best ships to use to crash null sec gate camps, besides hot dropping on them.
However, along the lines of the last part of my former statement, they're a t2 ship, which are designed to fill specific roles. T1's aren't.
So, this mini carrier ship suggestion would fit well as a t1 ship.
If you went with my suggestion of giving it
5 high slots +1 drone contol unit per lvl able to fit triage with large bonuses to remote rep amount command bonuses
This allows this ship to fit 3 roles.
The dominix style t1 drone boat, only more drone focused, high sec POS and/or close range heavy immobile logistics, or a heavy tank command ship(limited to on grid bonuses) |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:54:00 -
[109] - Quote
Ship "designs" as you put it push them into certain roles. You don't see people using a sacrilege as a sniping ship do you?
Yes, T2 ships are the "specialized" role ships. But that doesn't mean other ships don't fit roles within the game based on their "designs." Thats what the different ship bonuses do. They push ships toward various roles that we as players come up with based on these designs.
Now tell me, what "design" does this proposed ship fill? |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
257
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:55:00 -
[110] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:You literally just don't get it.
Lol, is this all the argument you have left?
What do I not get?
Do I not get that CCP designed Eve off the cool and fun factor?
Do I not get that many ships have been implemented cause they'd be fun or cool?
Do I not get that there are and has always been ships in Eve that don't fill roles?
Do I not get that certain ships in Eve fill roles that aren't needed?
Do I not get that t1 ships are the exact description of what ships that don't fill specific roles are?
Or, is it that I don't get that YOU don't want this ship so WE shouldn't want it either? |
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XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:55:00 -
[111] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:
The dominix style t1 drone boat, only more drone focused, high sec POS and/or close range heavy immobile logistics, or a heavy tank command ship(limited to on grid bonuses)
The problem with this, is that you are essentially combining various roles that already exist into one ship. |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 08:56:00 -
[112] - Quote
You know you're being more of a troll than I am right?
You've literally become what you dislike. How's it feel? |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
257
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 08:59:00 -
[113] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Ship "designs" as you put it push them into certain roles. You don't see people using a sacrilege as a sniping ship do you?
Yes, T2 ships are the "specialized" role ships. But that doesn't mean other ships don't fit roles within the game based on their "designs." Thats what the different ship bonuses do. They push ships toward various roles that we as players come up with based on these designs.
Now tell me, what "design" does this proposed ship fill?
T1 ships don't fill certain roles, they're specifically designed not to fill a specific role.
The different ships bonuses are designed as fun and cool factor, but are also part of balancing a racial aspects, such as bonuses to target painters, neuts, webs, or jams.
The design it fills is almost the same as the design you gave for the dominix, only more drone focused, like I said. |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 09:02:00 -
[114] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote: T1 ships don't fill certain roles, they're specifically designed not to fill a specific role.
The different ships bonuses are designed as fun and cool factor, but are also part of balancing a racial aspects, such as bonuses to target painters, neuts, webs, or jams.
The design it fills is almost the same as the design you gave for the dominix, only more drone focused, like I said.
They fill certain roles when put in combat. CCP balances their designs based on what roles they might fill. Destroyers are T1 and I'm pretty sure they are designed with bonuses to make them anti-frigate, which is a role, is it not? The griffin has ECM bonuses and is thus an ecm boat; pretty sure ECM ship is a role, is it not?
The problem with the proposed ship is that its trying to fill a hole that doesn't exist.
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
257
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 09:02:00 -
[115] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:You know you're being more of a troll than I am right?
You've literally become what you dislike. How's it feel?
No, a troll comes in and post without supplying any argument... They just post to either disagree, or for the sheer annoyance it gives other people.
I have not trolled. I have not only supplied to the argument, but have given existing, credible, and factual evidence to why it is possible for this ship to exist.
You have simply said it can't exist because it doesn't need to exist. |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 09:06:00 -
[116] - Quote
Precisely.
Others have as well. Go back and look through the thread. Multiple people have said "what role does this ship fill?"
And the question has yet to be answered.
Randomly adding ships "for fun" is a horrible idea. Citation: titans. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
257
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Posted - 2012.05.12 09:08:00 -
[117] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:
They fill certain roles when put in combat. CCP balances their designs based on what roles they might fill. Destroyers are T1 and I'm pretty sure they are designed with bonuses to make them anti-frigate, which is a role, is it not? The griffin has ECM bonuses and is thus an ecm boat; pretty sure ECM ship is a role, is it not?
The problem with the proposed ship is that its trying to fill a hole that doesn't exist.
Again, you're suggesting I look at ships that have been given a relative role that isn't a needed role. Frigs can kill frigs, cruisers can kill frigs, bs's can kill frigs, drones can kill frigs, so why did I need a destroyer to kill frigs? Cause it's cool?
Ecm is not a needed role either. It's there for the "cool" and/or "fun" factor.
Other classes designed to fill holes that didn't exist Marauders mining barges exhumers black ops titans carriers super carriers etc. etc.
I keep saying this because it's true. |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2012.05.12 09:08:00 -
[118] - Quote
If you can tell me a viable role that this ship would fill that is otherwise missing in the game and would not imbalance anything in the game or lead to abuse because of its abilities, I would gladly support it. |
Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.05.12 09:13:00 -
[119] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Precisely.
Others have as well. Go back and look through the thread. Multiple people have said "what role does this ship fill?"
1 other person asked what role does it fill and was replied too. Multiple people have answered you specifically over this question however. The majority of the thread has been positive in support of the concept. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
257
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 09:13:00 -
[120] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:If you can tell me a viable role that this ship would fill that is otherwise missing in the game and would not imbalance anything in the game or lead to abuse because of its abilities, I would gladly support it.
If it were able to fit a triage module, and while in triage got a bonus to range and high bonuses to rep amount of remote reps, but left immobile while doing so, then it would be a high sec POS repper.
Which, like I've also said, if we had a high sec mini dread for POS bashing, then they would both serve valid purposes and would basically have the same uses as dreads and carriers in low/null sec, but with a design built specifically with high sec in mind. |
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