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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
943
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:wonderful so all the systems the minnies have been steamrolling for the past week will stay they way till the new changes make it take 5x as long.
that makes sense thanks. /sarcasm/ Stock up on Amarr navy ships now, sell later when prices spike to afford your own steamroller? Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Tia Aves
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:ZenithDK wrote:This looks pretty awesome!
Have been thinking about getting into FW for a long time, but I didn't see much point in it - with 2 characters doing datacore mining, there will suddenly be a big interest in it for me.
One thing though: Doesn't this sort of encourage that you take sov, buy all your data cores - loose sov, watch prices spike, and then you dump your cheaply acquired stash? If a sufficiently large corp in FW can be deciding factor/work together with others, what's to prevent this? Aaaaand we have our first metagaming idea for the new FW system: datacore cartel!
I like this idea a lot, deals between opposing sides which could result in increased profit. It would probably be fairly hard to do but its a great notion. |
Valkyrs
Deep Vein Trading
6
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:58:00 -
[33] - Quote
Great work guys, the idea of Factional Warfare sounded interesting to me when I started, but was urged by my mentor never to touch it, it was pretty much broken. Glad to see these things being resurrected. It gives me a conduit into PVP.
I'm a RP farmer, so I appreciate it not being phased out, I've spent a lot of time farming rep on several R&D corps. The added cost is low enough that it doesn't bother me, if it provides a money pit to bury some inflation I'm fine with that.
Also for the factional warfare system, I haven't played on Singularity but how will you handle unbalanced situations, where everyone joins FW for the faction with the most control? I realize that you plan on having diminishing returns, but it seems like that won't be enough to sway people to the losing side, or even keep the ones that are already on it.
Possible Improvements:
I believe running missions for R&D agents currently doubles your RP for the day, and ups your rep with that agent. Why not tie the price of cores to the agents rep, maybe making it more expensive then what you've set up, and have it go to a minimum of half. I'd personally run the missions more often if I knew they had a lasting effect on my wallet, I love that almost everything in EVE has an impact or can be changed.
Give incentive to players on a losing/smaller team. Perhaps a portion of all LP gained for a faction (5%, etc) could be distributed amongst all it's members, and thus there would be an allure just to be in small factions. Maybe once a faction reaches a critical size, systems that are farther away from the core of the faction receive a debuff relative to their distance, such as weaker guns or weaker tanks. And inversely a very small faction could get outlaying buffs to promote growth (and obviously, combat!).
Maybe you guys already have mechanics for this in place, I'm just thinking of the extreme cases where factions are close to collapse, where you want to entice players to join the losing faction as much as the winning one. Other then that I think the diminishing returns idea will provide a nice ebb and flow.
Keep up the good work!
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Vanessa Vansen
Cybermana
20
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
Excellent idea with the datacore! (yes, it is ironic)
Datacore available via Faction LP store -> no need to train science skills at all. Together with new LP reward, you might be able to profit by teaming up with your enemy.
Destroy ship, get datacores form LP, sell datacores, profit (which is btw not restricted to datacores)
I hope you did take that into calculations.
Short, I don't know about the faction warfare changes but changes in R&D handling ... why at all? CCP does not like it and now they are kicking the ass of those who invested their training time to be able to use it, just because it's too passive. Well, how about getting rid of
- Moon Mining? --- passive isk for corps/alliances and
- T2 BPOs? --- passive isk for their owners, compared to inventing T2 BPCs from T1 BPC and the profit is great
So, unless providing access to some data, that's the wrong way to go. |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
2314
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:59:00 -
[35] - Quote
I made the pictures in the blog a little bigger and made them link to even bigger versions. Go click them and stuff! CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
77
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
From the Blog: Capturing complexes will also cause half of the gained LP amount to be removed from the enemy Infrastructure Hub in the solar system
All below assumes solo plex capture.
a) If the enemy system you capture the plex in has no LP in its iHUB, do you still get the same amount of LP (e.g. 10,000 for a minor)
b) If the enemy system you capture the plex in has LP in it's iHUB, do you get more LP (e.g. 10,000 base + 5,000 = 15,000 LP for a minor) |
wallenbergaren
University of Caille Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
The price fluctuations in the LP store seem way too big. The difference between the two price extremes is a factor of 16. You're going to end up with LP being worthless because everything in the LP store costs too much, or LP being worthless because everything is too cheap and the market is oversaturated. |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
78
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:Is current Sov held staying the same or being reset, sounds like it is staying the same? We won't reset anything. Occupancy will be directly translated into Sovereignty in FW systems.
There will be tears. Though, I think this is the only option. |
Cristl
Perkone Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
Forums, you can eat my posts but you will never take my freedom! Anyway:
Are you sure about the datacore changes? Tying them to factional warfare doesn't seem to fit with research to be honest, and datacore farming was touted as passive income from the start.
Why else would you grind those horrible standings, pay all that money in skillbooks and then take up months of skill training time if not to either invent for yourself or sell to other inventors. It's the whole point. The missions are as boring as hell and pay poorly - no one does it for anything other than passive income. Now that's deemed undesirable? And why would the militia get datacores, surely they should get faction shiny stuff instead? |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1606
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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PC5
Szwadron Frozen Synapse
3
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:09:00 -
[41] - Quote
@CCP Ytterbium
1. Do you plan to check LP store item requirements? Some offers are crazy!
For example : Imperial Navy Medium EMP Smartbomb BPC 5 run - costs 270k LP + 108m isk + 358 Republic Fleet Captain Insignia I + 595 Republic Fleet High Captain Insignia I where Republic Fleet Captain Insignia I x1 = 1,7m Republic Fleet Captain Insignia I x358 = 608,6m Republic Fleet High Captain Insignia I x1 = 0,7m Republic Fleet High Captain Insignia I x595 = 416,5m
Lets Assume 1k lp = 1m
Total cost for that BPC in isks - 1133,1m + 270m = 1403,1 - thats just plain wroooong. After manufacturing (who would be so stupid to teake that offer and do that) - 280,62m / module
Theres at last 20 such offers which requirements are totaly inbalanced. Ive pointed out just one.
2. What about cynojamers? No info about them in devblog. Have you abandoned that idea for FW?
I and other pilots would be realy grateful if you can answer those questions.
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Dirk Smacker
Inglorious-Basterds
28
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:09:00 -
[42] - Quote
Bagehi wrote:[quote=CCP Ytterbium] There will be tears. Though, I think this is the only option. If the NFL were to change the number of points for a touchdown from six to one, they wouldn't do during the Super Bowl with one team down by five.
I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
943
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:11:00 -
[43] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?
-Liang All of the people looking for cheap rewards will join the winning faction, which can be good for the losing one if they want to gain heaps of LP from killing clueless people looking for easy money. Plus, it is very hard to swap factions due to the massive standings penalties you take from running the complexes or missions, so it provides reasons for people to stick with their side and drive it forward.
The 4x multiplier seems exaggerated, but it sounds like it would only occur when one side literally owns all FW space and has it all upgraded. I'm expecting more of a 1.5x multiplier maximum with the regular sovereignty swings. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Dirk Smacker
Inglorious-Basterds
28
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:12:00 -
[44] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?
-Liang I made the suggestion there be an underdog modifier for a losing faction's PvP kills. It probably got lost in the forum heroics. I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one. |
Tanaka Aiko
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
69
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:13:00 -
[45] - Quote
PC5 wrote:
2. What about cynojamers? No info about them in devblog. Have you abandoned that idea for FW?
oh yeah, that should be on the iHub upgrade list, they told about it before
anyway, it seems to be nice change for now, i'll give a try later :) |
BlindFury
Genbuku.
7
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
I can't remember if this already happens or not, but why not put datacores as a reward in hacking and analyzing deadspace sites along with the other changes listed?
BF |
Sheena Tzash
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:14:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sounds good but I'll try and get the obvious stuff out of the way:
1) How do we participate in FW? Will there be any sort of fleet finder & chat channels specifically available for FW?
2) Are the sites going to be balanced in a way to try and encourage solo and small gang pvp? If not how do you plan to stop / reduce a huge blob dominating FW or blobs camping out the FW sites setting an ambush?
3) How will participation affect my standings? I don't want to do some funtime pvp to find I've wrecked my faction standings and now I can't move into other factions space without being shot at.
4) How will participation affect me in high sec? Will it be open season to anyone flagged for FW or will the usual rules apply?
5) Will rewards be divided equally; even without entering combat? I could forsee fleets employing a dedicated scout to find war targets and I'm sure they'll want to get paid too, even if they don't fire a shot.
6) If we sign up for FW can we pick it up and drop is as much as we want to with affecting standings?
Thats all I can think of for now :D |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
51
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
Is there any benefit for fighting in a heavily upgraded system as opposed to a lightly upgraded system? better rewards for trying to take a Dominated system as opposed to newly conquered one? or are all payouts the same? ~ i can forsee there being one or two heavily defended systems that everyone uses to cash their LP in using alt couriers(for tags), while all the fighting goes on in contested systems,
How exactly are Datacores being introduced into FW? through LP stores? through FW only research agents? will they still require skills to use?
Why no rebalance of tags needed for individual items? or look at which tags drop from which types of npc ships?
Changes to where FW missions are located? only in contested areas or low upgraded areas?
Who is dropping the ihub? how/when is that dropped? Does all the LP have to be drained out of it first before it can be killed? |
Dirk Smacker
Inglorious-Basterds
28
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
BlindFury wrote:I can't remember if this already happens or not, but why not put datacores as a reward in hacking and analyzing deadspace sites along with the other changes listed?
BF They already are. I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1607
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?
-Liang All of the people looking for cheap rewards will join the winning faction, which can be good for the losing one if they want to gain heaps of LP from killing clueless people looking for easy money. Plus, it is very hard to swap factions due to the massive standings penalties you take from running the complexes or missions, so it provides reasons for people to stick with their side and drive it forward. The 4x multiplier seems exaggerated, but it sounds like it would only occur when one side literally owns all FW space and has it all upgraded. I'm expecting more of a 1.5x multiplier maximum with the regular sovereignty swings.
If there's one thing I've learned about Eve, it's that people take things to the max. The 4x modifier will be hit almost immediately. How long did it take FW to be "won" the first time? Not long at all
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
77
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?
-Liang
There is none. Even the plexing system is set up so you get no rewards for defensive plexing: Until all systems are held by one side both sides will just attack enemy plexes to get LP (and it's just as effective to attack an enemy system as it is to defend your own, and the former gives you LP while you do it). |
Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Dark Matter Coalition
1072
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
This all sounds incredibly awesome and is making me consider joining. For the first time PVP could truly be profitable and/or sustainable :P The Drake is a Lie |
MR rockafella
Santa's Factory
12
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:18:00 -
[53] - Quote
How about you fix the fukin r.a.m. rounding bug in production first, a +4 year old bug still in game. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
729
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:19:00 -
[54] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?
-Liang I don't think player behavior will go that way. I for one would rather join the side that is loosing the war (unless it's amarr... never joining them) because you know there will be plenty of targets and joining the side that is already winning isn't much of an accomplishment. Some people would rather turn the tide of the war than mooch off the side that's winning, besides, you can always have an alt join the other team. In terms of absolute fighters, the winning side's numbers will probably tend to inflate more quickly... but I don't think victory will be stable as those who want to fight defect for the loosing side.
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Zor'katar
Leeole's Legion
2
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:21:00 -
[55] - Quote
Any chance that when this hits, those with RP in the 50RP/DC agents could have those doubled? (You know, like just assume that we were all smart enough to cash out right before, and not make us actually do it at a time you determine?) |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1152
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
Caiman Graystock wrote:Does this mean that if the caldari militia gain sovereignty over a system that was previously gallente, for instance, that system actually falls under the complete sovereignty of the Caldari State, and becomes Caldari Space whilst it is held? This is a interesting question - as in will there be faction police hammering my minmatarish jump freighter if my faction loses the sovereignty. That is when I'm not taking part in faction warfare. Couldn't quite find the answer from the blog.
edit: ...and I'm not saying that it would be bad thing - I'm just saying that fair warning would be in place if this is the case.
Get |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
51
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
utility of items in the LP stores for nonFW people will drive most of the FW actual combat, Sale of cheap items from the FW store will drive most of the fighting, however because of the ship loss Lp mechanics, i don't think that there will be huge swings of Sov after the initial drive by Caldari / amarr fleet.
also various regions will have extremely crazy markets for a while |
Dirk Smacker
Inglorious-Basterds
28
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:24:00 -
[58] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Is there any benefit for fighting in a heavily upgraded system as opposed to a lightly upgraded system? better rewards for trying to take a Dominated system as opposed to newly conquered one? or are all payouts the same? The upgrades on SiSi are subsequential market benefits until the defenders fillit it up, the last milestone being a buffer. I'm assuming this is a buffer that has to have its LP taken through plexes to make the system contested.
Kusum Fawn wrote:~ i can forsee there being one or two heavily defended systems that everyone uses to cash their LP in using alt couriers(for tags), while all the fighting goes on in contested systems, There are some hi sec militia bases. That's the preferred spot for buying faction ships.
Kusum Fawn wrote:How exactly are Datacores being introduced into FW? through LP stores? through FW only research agents? will they still require skills to use? On Sisi, you buy them five at a time. Per unit cost is 200k isk and 200 LP. Capturing more of the warzone will make them cheaper if I read the dev blog correctly.
Kusum Fawn wrote:Who is dropping the ihub? how/when is that dropped? Does all the LP have to be drained out of it first before it can be killed? The I-Hub is like the bunker is now and goes nowhere when captured. I'm not sure if the defenders can add LP while the system is contested to add a buffer. I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one. |
Dirk Smacker
Inglorious-Basterds
28
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?
-Liang I don't think player behavior will go that way. I for one would rather join the side that is loosing the war (unless it's amarr... never joining them) because you know there will be plenty of targets and joining the side that is already winning isn't much of an accomplishment. Some people would rather turn the tide of the war than mooch off the side that's winning, besides, you can always have an alt join the other team. In terms of absolute fighters, the winning side's numbers will probably tend to inflate more quickly... but I don't think victory will be stable as those who want to fight defect for the loosing side. Would you join the side whose enemies could blob at will when they want to lock you out of your home or the ones doing the blobbing for lulz. The latter seems more fun from a gaming perspective even before the economic benefit. I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
943
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:28:00 -
[60] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?
-Liang All of the people looking for cheap rewards will join the winning faction, which can be good for the losing one if they want to gain heaps of LP from killing clueless people looking for easy money. Plus, it is very hard to swap factions due to the massive standings penalties you take from running the complexes or missions, so it provides reasons for people to stick with their side and drive it forward. The 4x multiplier seems exaggerated, but it sounds like it would only occur when one side literally owns all FW space and has it all upgraded. I'm expecting more of a 1.5x multiplier maximum with the regular sovereignty swings. If there's one thing I've learned about Eve, it's that people take things to the max. The 4x modifier will be hit almost immediately. How long did it take FW to be "won" the first time? Not long at all -Liang If the Minmatar militia "wins" and captures most Amarr systems, a few things will happen:
- The bottom drops out of the Minmatar faction stuff market
- Amarr faction ships become far more expensive
- Amarr militia old guard will continue attacking FW space and easily taking complexes (because there are so many systems with so many complexes), being able to keep their own wallets up by selling the more expensive items less often.
- Militia false weather friends will get bored and go do something else when Firetails sell for 2 mil apiece.
- Possible Amarr resurgence.
Or I could be completely wrong and something else would happen. This is a very large list of changes with very complex consequences, and I'm not sure that we can simply predict what will happen. We will just have to wait and see, and have fun in the meantime. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
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