Whatever CCP comes up with for NPC balance, future plexing mechanics, whatever... I hope they follow the principles below:

GÇó Offensive plexing should be rewarded more than defensive plexing because offensive plexing drives conflict. (Defensive plexing is a reaction to offensive plexing.)
GÇó Plexes (both offensive and defensive) should be run most efficiently by the appropriately sized ship. (Frigs/Dessies for L1, Cruisers/T2 frigs for L2, BC/T2 cruisers for L3, BS/T2 BCs for L4)
GÇóPlex mechanics should encourage pvp, not pve.

Potential Solutions:

GÇó (Much) higher LP rewards for offensive plexing.
GÇó Timer slows down if appropriately sized ship is not running the button. Ex: If frigate is on timer of L4 plex, then plex timer should slow down by a factor of eight.
GÇó Timer move toward baseline if no ship is close to button. This enables players interested in pvp to run off those not interested in pvp and still be successful. (This has been discussed extensively elsewhere).

I agree with you, except the whole "appropriate sized" ship stuff. If i want to fight a cruiser in a frigate(s) or a bc in a cruiser(s) i should be able to. I shouldn't be punished. Typically it will be several frigates against a cruiser or a few cruisers against a bc. But whatever, I love those sorts of fights.

Until we see that amarr can actually fight their way back then I would say we shouldn't even consider any lp for defensive plexing. At this point I think ccp should consider giving missions a slight nerf to the lp payout as well.

I did say that completing a plex should be done most efficiently with an appropriately sized ship. Current plex size restrictions would still hold. You could fight with destroyers in any size plex. This thread is not about FW missions.

I tried running some majors with a cyclone asb fit pvp ship. I wanted to see if it was viable to do them in a pvp ship post ewar removal.

Conclusion: No go even on the closed plexes. I was using cap boosters too fast and without the ability to dock and resupply my cargo it is not really doable. Its extremely unlikely I would take a fight in a major plex even if the enemy ship was quite a bit smaller. Its just stupid to think people will actually pvp in these things with the rats doing so much damage. Unfortunately for pvp I am limitted to the medium and minor plexes.

I run medium plexes in a faction cruisers. They are still not doable in most of my regular t1 pvp cruisers. (although yes they can be done in a caracal) Even with the faction cruisers if the spawn has continued to build up it is a no go.

Minor plexes are fine. No real complaints there.

It does appear that the elimination of ewar has allowed amarr to speed tank major plexes in gunnless frigates.

I still recomend the following:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1463058#post1463058

Right but if you try to run a say a medium plex with 3 destroyers instead of 1 cruiser the timer would take longer under your proposal.

The thread is about plexing. If we "nerf" plexing so you can't run them in frigates you are indirectly buffing missions. Its important that ccp understand that connection, or their whole goal of making plexing pay better than missions won't be achieved.

Unless of course the rats stop attacking when an enemy comes in.

I havn't read anything here, just want to mention that first.

I say make FW rats point. would make it harder to farm plexes while avoiding pvp.

Ohh and make them not attack neutrals.. Being attacked by the Caldari navy when you're actually in good standing with it and not a part of any militia is kinda silly.

Actually it's absolutely appropriate, you have no business in a military installation, and you sure as hell have no business shooting FW pod pilots in their own military installation. The use of standings by FW Plex NPCs should be removed entirely, it's not appropriate to the setting. It shouldn't matter how good your standings are, if you're not part of the appropriate militia you get shot.

There's increasing militia use of fiddled standings (sometimes at corp level) to make FW plex rats ignore pilots. The outcome is hostile militia pilots "capturing" a plex while the Empire military just sits there on it's ass. Though really, this too could be fixed by requiring the rats to be killed to cap the plex.

Just to re-iterate what players have been saying about the current state of affairs within FW. This is a conversation that occurred in local after a minmatar FW player's CNI was killed.

[08:24:36] EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Haras
[08:24:40] Minmatar Player > gf
[08:24:52] Amarr Player > Sorry mate I brought something a little bigger this time
[08:24:58] Minmatar Player > I don't really care
[08:25:03] Minmatar Player > I still make 1b/h per char
[08:25:04] Minmatar Player > and I run 3
[08:25:40] Amarr Player > Really? I thought you were alright. Apparently I was wrong
[08:25:59] Minmatar Player > All I care about is milking as much isk I can untill ccp patches this broken ****

Not players names have been replaced rather than place individuals in the spotlight.

So still making 1 bill / hour per character, incursions were nerfed for this kind of isk output...fixing sooner rather than later would be good.

Okay FW is totaly broken, everyone fears the minmatar farming armada

Ok, so I've spent quite a bit more time in FW than I had when I posted before,
and I believe people are correct in saying that completely removing the NPC's is not the answer.

I can't say what the final solution is, but there is something that is certain - if NPC's are to stay, they must all be equally tankable.
I am referring here to the number of missiles in caldari plexes that can't be speed tanked in the same way as gallente plexes.


Also, and perhaps most importantly - make it so that plexers have to kill the rats.
I am sick to death of chasing down caldari plexers only to find they have two warp core stabs on.
(I could not even count how many have warped out in flames with a scram on them.)

Making it so that the rats must be killed, would prevent speed tanking in stabbed plexing ships with no thought to combat effectiveness, thus reducing the feesability for using warp core stabs.

(Also, couldn't you make it so that warp core stabs stop you from being able to target anything? )

Fearing an army of unfit ships....

I do not like the idea that NPC is the only defence, there should be some reason for players to defend.
Anyway if you remove all npc and players can be with pvp fitted ship does not change the fact that they escape too if you chase them away with too power full ship.

NPC is not the solution or the problem, there should be some reason/reward to chase enemy away or kill them and take the plex they started.

We can address the fact that defensive plexing is an unpaid boring chore, effectively rendering half of all plexes undesirable as an activity to participate in.

There are numerous reasons why no direct reward for d-plexing is a good plan. Including encouraging pvp and allowing the smaller militia to establish a foothold. Giving rewards just does the opposite. It entrenches the winning team and it gives people a reason to stay docked while the enemy captures an offensive plex instead of fighting them for it.