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Finnbarr Dreydus Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 00:22:00 - [31] I agree. There needs to be rewards and real benefits for FW.
Logan Xerxes 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 02:11:00 - [32] Fix the lag and things get massively better with just that. As said by many others in this thread. Most of us do't want to goto 0.0, or don't want to go back. I personally prefer to fight in an area where there's some variance in ship and skill levels rather than just BS/BC/T2/Cap.
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.05.21 03:34:00 - [33] I was in a 0.0 alliance long before I was in FW and have now been in FW for a very long time. I do not miss bubbles and pos warfare one bit. Low sec is great fun to pvp in. Having said that, there are a number of issues which are dragging down faction warfare and it appears there are few options on the upcoming CSM to get CCPs attention back to this feature. I posted a thread recently addressing my ideas for improving FW and would like to repost them here, if for no other reason than - if I post it enough - at some point there must be a dev response of some kind: a.) Wardec mechanics which allow pirate corps to 'cherry pick' individual FW player corps without drawing aggression from the rest of the militia. This fix would mean nothing more than making all four militia factions into Alliances insofar as wardec game mechanics are concerned. Can't dec one corp within without deccing them all. Hell, it'd probably involve changing one line of code for each militia. b.) Provide a real advantage to establishing sovereignty. Deny station services (but allow docking) to enemy combatants in non-militia (npc corp) stations and disallow docking altogether in militia-labeled stations. Doesn't have to be complicated, doesn't need any new set of rules. Just use the nullsec docking code for FW with those stations that are militia in nature (those having the respective militia in their names - Tribal Liberation Force Logisitics Plant, 24th Imperial Crusade Testing Facilities, etc.). If you don't have occupancy, your militia can't dock in those stations. You could still dock in any non-militia stations in any system (Quafe Company Warehouse, etc.) regardless of occupancy, but perhaps with station services cut off to whichever militia does not have system occupancy. Perhaps cutting off station services in NPC stations might be seen as too extreme, I don't know. Some faction warfare systems have NPC corp stations in them, others do not. Systems which have only militia stations will be something for enemies to consider when flying through an enemy-occupied system -- and give them a good reason for taking said systems themselves. This would make FW a little bit more like 0.0-with-training-wheels, as CCP say they intend. If you are "behind enemy lines" roaming or fighting in enemy occupied space, it will not be so easy to just dock up and get repairs (or avoid fights). c.) Plex spawning. Insure the mechanics are such that plexes spawn more evenly throughout the day and in plenty of out-of-the-way FW systems to encourage more solo and small gang roaming outside the major pipes (Kamela/Kourm/Auga/Amamake, Tama/Suj/Heyd/OMS). This requires no further explanation, as most everyone - CCP included - agree the plex spawning mechanics are fubared at the moment. As far as cloaking and speedtanking the plexes, the solution there is also a simple one: One must destroy all NPCs in a plex in order to finish said plex. You can still run the timer down, cloak up and speed tank all you like, but it will just keep flashing "0.00 seconds" until someone finishes off any and all rats. (continued) -- Meridius Dex Visit the Gunship Forums --
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.05.21 03:34:00 - [34] d.) Establish modest Loyalty Point awards for FW activity. This should be low enough that high-level mission running is still far more lucrative to dissuade farming, yet provide enough incentive to plex, thus opening more pvp opportunities in more systems not in the main pipes mentioned above. Taking a couple minor plexes down might grant enough LPs to buy faction ammo, for example. Changing sovereignty (or successfully defending a bunker) should grant enough LP to purchase faction frigates. Faction cruisers and other significant rewards should be the result of accumulating larger amounts of LP. I don't think giving actual ISK rewards would be the way to go with this at all. It should be Loyalty Point based for such items as may be purchased only in the Faction store. And to avoid farming, make taking a Major Unrestricted plex scale to about 2/3 what a single Level IV mission would earn a high sec carebear, and scale all LP rewards for lesser plexes down from there. Remember that this is not like mission running. If these changes are implemented, you'll have to not only kill all the rats in a plex but do so with potentially scores of WTs searching through many of these systems looking to gank you. As always, make offensive plexing more rewarding then defensive plexing. -- Meridius Dex Visit the Gunship Forums --
Lord Zekk Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 07:34:00 - [35] Edited by: Lord Zekk on 21/05/2009 07:35:41 Who over thinks faction warfare is fine the way it is only thinks so for one reason. "It's a free wardec! Thousands of targets to shoot at anywhere in low sec as well as high sec!" That's all about FW that works the way it should. Everything else needs more work. Lag Missions Plexing Occupancy Did I mention lag? Just once I would like to get into a FW fight involving 50 pilots and actually see myself die, not find out that I popped after 5 minutes of starting at frozen screen only to wake up in a station or have to relog to find myself in a pod. That is not too much to ask. ---------------------------------------- We are recruiting. Visit our recruitment page here or visit our http://www
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 07:53:00 - [36] Originally by: Meridius Dex d.) stuff a. This is not so simple thing. Making it possible to war dec whole militia may bring alliances to faction warfare. Getting war dec example from goons to whole militia could be worse than single corp wardecs. Also being under militia protection could be used to protect your corp against war dec. So i think ccp has thought this quite well and current situation is only possible option in practise. b. making some thing not available for enemy faction does not work. If you have to dock to station where station services etc. are disabled you will just quit militia and fix your ship and go away and rejoin later. If they implement some advantages it should be something extra, like free repair etc (could be exloitable too) c. cloaking and speed tanking are not major problem. If you speed tank you can not fight against enemy. It is ment that other players defend plexes not npc. npc is there only for getting some advantage to defender making it little harder for attacker. plex spawning is quite compilicated thing. There is always plexes somewhere you just have to find them. giving plexes all day to one system could make it flip just faster. Capturing plex in system A may result it spawn to system X. So current plex spawning system makes it worth to plex all over fw area not just in system that is currently under attack. d. maybe conversing victory points to lp points and putting some extra to fw lp store may be enough. best plexers have under 400k victory point so it is not much compared to normal mission running lp points
Lord Zekk Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 08:01:00 - [37] Originally by: Bad Messenger d. maybe conversing victory points to lp points and putting some extra to fw lp store may be enough. best plexers have under 400k victory point so it is not much compared to normal mission running lp points This is a suggestion that I have heard many times and probably the best way to introduce some kind of rewards to plexing. Between LP for plexes and removing the ability to take plexes while cloaked, the plexing bit of FW would be great and it would address the problem of rewards without going overboard which would result in farming. ---------------------------------------- We are recruiting. Visit us at http://www.22ndbrdu.com
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.21 09:23:00 - [38] I'd like to see an overhaul of the FW missions. As things stand, they take longer than normal missions, they're tougher than normal missions, but they don't offer better rewards than ordinary missions. How about reducing their travel distances and and offering unique items in the militia LP stores? I'd also like more input from the factions themselves. The couple of times when NPCs have ordered militias to focus on specific systems worked well, in my view. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Gabriel Darkefyre Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.21 09:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Bad Messenger Originally by: Meridius Dex d.) stuff a. This is not so simple thing. Making it possible to war dec whole militia may bring alliances to faction warfare. Getting war dec example from goons to whole militia could be worse than single corp wardecs. Also being under militia protection could be used to protect your corp against war dec. So i think ccp has thought this quite well and current situation is only possible option in practise. How about a simple solution then? Keep it possible to Wardec Single Corporations within the Militia using the current Mechanics, However Also Add the Following:- - You Flag as a Valid Target for all members of that Particular Militia and can be shot at without NPC Repercussions (CONCORD / Gate Guns). However, you can only engage members of the Corp you Wardecced UNLESS engaged by another Militia Member in which case you gain aggression to them and can return Fire. I.E. Say you Wardec PERVS, you become a Valid target for the entire Caldari Militia, but you can only shoot PERVS Freely, shooting any other Caldari Militia Member requires them to fire first. --------------- Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 09:27:00 - [40] Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre Originally by: Bad Messenger Originally by: Meridius Dex d.) stuff a. This is not so simple thing. Making it possible to war dec whole militia may bring alliances to faction warfare. Getting war dec example from goons to whole militia could be worse than single corp wardecs. Also being under militia protection could be used to protect your corp against war dec. So i think ccp has thought this quite well and current situation is only possible option in practise. How about a simple solution then? Keep it possible to Wardec Single Corporations within the Militia using the current Mechanics, However Also Add the Following:- - You Flag as a Valid Target for all members of that Particular Militia and can be shot at without NPC Repercussions (CONCORD / Gate Guns). However, you can only engage members of the Corp you Wardecced UNLESS engaged by another Militia Member in which case you gain aggression to them and can return Fire. I.E. Say you Wardec PERVS, you become a Valid target for the entire Caldari Militia, but you can only shoot PERVS Freely, shooting any other Caldari Militia Member requires them to fire first. I do not see any problems on current situation. Why it should be different? Why you should have different rules in fw?

Lord Zekk Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 10:22:00 - [41] The current system for war deccing militia corporations is fine. We've gone through plenty in the 22nd and we've dealt with each one. What you propose would be abused by the bears. If your corp gets decced then sign your corp up with a militia so that the attacking corp has to now deal with an entire militia. ---------------------------------------- We are recruiting. Visit us at http://www.22ndbrdu.com
crockett EXE Minmatar Mutineers	Posted - 2009.05.21 11:40:00 - [42] Edited by: crockett EXE on 21/05/2009 11:45:02 Why does this seem like yet another cloaked Caldri thread about why PVE plexing should mean something?? Plexing doesn't need to mean anything, other than a way to get faction standings and to get PVP fights. The only changes I'd make to plexing would be to do away with the acceleration gates and maybe give some faction LP points or something. The reason plexing has nothing to do with Sov and so on IMO is because it would turn into a bunch of PVEr's running from any fight and trying to ninja any plex they can with out any resistance. That or it would be nothing but blobs instead of small gang warfare. Plexing, should be nothing more than a way to force the other side to ship down to get a fight. Plexes have the ability to be a battlefield equalizer if they were adjusted a bit, however to do that the acceleration gates need to go. The reason I say this, is because it's far too easy right now for one side to park BS's, BC's, Cruisers ect...ect on the gates of say Minors for example to kill any frigs that try to get in. IMO the plexes should all be set up like unrestricteds, but should only show up on overview if you are in a ship that can fit in it. A simple change like this would allow plexes to become a ship equalizer as I think they were designed to be. We don't need SOV BS to come to FW, it's great with out all the dumb null sec politics and it's nice to have quick fights. If you want system captures to mean something, then go to null sec where they do mean something. The only other changes I'd make, would be to fix the lag and to make FW missions worth doing. Other than that, FW is fine for what it was made for and that's lots of WT's and quick fights with out all the null sec BS.
Gabriel Darkefyre Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.21 11:47:00 - [43] Originally by: Lord Zekk The current system for war deccing militia corporations is fine. We've gone through plenty in the 22nd and we've dealt with each one. What you propose would be abused by the bears. If your corp gets decced then sign your corp up with a militia so that the attacking corp has to now deal with an entire militia. Not as abusable as you may think. Yes, you could sign up for the Militia to make the Attacking Corp have to deal with the Militia as well as you, however that then makes you a valid target to the Entirity of Both Opposing Militia's as well. And we've seen enough High Sec raiding by all the Militia's to know that even in the depths of your own High Sec you're never safe if you're in the Militia. To use an example, a Corp based in Gallente Space joins the Gallente Militia in response to a Wardec. Suddenly they've increased the pool of people that can shoot at them legally by over 5000 from the Caldari Militia alone as well as cutting themselves off from easy access to Amarr or Caldari Space. Yes, they could join the Militia for Protection, but that protection comes with a cost. Question is, whether the Cost is worth it. --------------- Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs
Parmenides Elea Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.21 12:06:00 - [44] War dec rules are fine. If you get war decc'd just don't join the militia blobs, fight it out as a corp. PvP is why joined FW isn't it? Lag is the main issue with FW and CCP has recognised this and are working on it, patienece people! I'm not going to enter the plexing debate, people know where WOLFY stand on this and I'm getting tired of typing the same things over and over again. What other "problems" are there in FW? Personally I love what CCP have done and have great fun every time I log on, win or loose.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.05.21 13:04:00 - [45] null Originally by: Bad Messenger FW is not broken. It is Gallente morale that is broken. They fight back at the beginning in Ladistier, vifrevaert, some parts of verge vendor, in oms were big figts for plexes. But gallente just finally lost so much in those fight that they have no more guts to come in plexes. Personally i can say that i have had many good fights in fw and most of them in fw plexes. Today was the first day in fw history when there was moment when there was no gallente plex to capture. All were taken. You blaim different things and ask this and that, but it is all about gallente people who just does not want to do anything. Stop whining about fw and go to do something else. You do not need fw for camping tama nourv gate, it has always been camped by pirates. Umm, that's someone on your side making the claims.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.05.21 13:19:00 - [46] Originally by: Logan Xerxes Fix the lag and things get massively better with just that. As said by many others in this thread. Most of us do't want to goto 0.0, or don't want to go back. I personally prefer to fight in an area where there's some variance in ship and skill levels rather than just BS/BC/T2/Cap. I agree with that 100%. The plexing mechanics need tinkering to make the whole thing actually worth something, but it's the lag that requires the attention first of all.
Val Erian Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia	Posted - 2009.05.21 14:09:00 - [47] Quote: Plexing, should be nothing more than a way to force the other side to ship down to get a fight. Plexes have the ability to be a battlefield equalizer if they were adjusted a bit, however to do that the acceleration gates need to go. No on the accell gates. Its just another good way to get combat. And TBH its easier to kill whoever is parked on a minor gate in a BS/BC etc because they cant get away by jumping/docking/warping. The problem with plexs not meaning more is that people wont go into them :) you want them to go there. As for Bad Messenger, for someone who is so clever about lots of things he is very mis informed about other aspects of FW. best example is his prior inistance that the Timezone and RL advantage he enjoys with his fellow corp mates/ Finns is entirely meaningless. ie the ability to play right afte DT when the most plexs are available. So one of the changes needed is a truely dynamic plex spawn so that the majority of plexs do not spawn at a particular time, so that whoever dominates right after DT cant run away with it. And Parm....thxs be that you will stop repeating yourself over and over again. As you said we know where your corp stands. One thing that was suggested earlier Might make things more interesting, is a proposal that ship types be timed to timer running. ie A major plex timer could only be turned by a bc+ ship, medium by cruiser/t2 frig, that way we could get away from the speed tanking wcs merlin running a major. Doubt any such change will be implemented just as others will not be.
Ziriko Keplit	Posted - 2009.05.21 14:14:00 - [48] With all respect to pro-FW block lead by Bad Messenger, I must cast my vote for those who said that rewards in faction warfare is not nearly enough. As soon as our glorious Caldari militia will get 100% occupancy, I will seriouslly consider moving to Ammar militia or somewhere else (and I can absolutelly honestly say that I believe many will do same - move to ammars, 0.0, empire etc. that will lead to radical number drop in active caldari militia pilots). When occupancy will hit 100% there will be no any motivation stay here (i am not fanatical caldari roleplayer). PvP and standing boost you can get in ammar militia as well (or maybe even better). Only thing that keeps mere here for now - i want see total occupancy. And celebrate with rest caladari that "We won Eve" (c) unknown goon. As soon as this stimule will be gone... All rest i probably will easily find in ammar militia. I did not think about this seriouslly YET, so nothing set in stone, but I have feeling that rewards is not enough to keep me interested for much longer.
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.21 14:25:00 - [49] Edited by: Raimo on 21/05/2009 14:26:27 Originally by: Meridius Dex b.) Provide a real advantage to establishing sovereignty. Deny station services (but allow docking) to enemy combatants in non-militia (npc corp) stations and disallow docking altogether in militia-labeled stations. Doesn't have to be complicated, doesn't need any new set of rules. Just use the nullsec docking code for FW with those stations that are militia in nature (those having the respective militia in their names - Tribal Liberation Force Logisitics Plant, 24th Imperial Crusade Testing Facilities, etc.). If you don't have occupancy, your militia can't dock in those stations. You could still dock in any non-militia stations in any system (Quafe Company Warehouse, etc.) regardless of occupancy, but perhaps with station services cut off to whichever militia does not have system occupancy. Perhaps cutting off station services in NPC stations might be seen as too extreme, I don't know. Some faction warfare systems have NPC corp stations in them, others do not. Systems which have only militia stations will be something for enemies to consider when flying through an enemy-occupied system -- and give them a good reason for taking said systems themselves. No to denying station services but allowing docking. Just get a neutral alt to follow you/ your gang (Hell, put him in a cov ops to scout for you or god forbid a logistics boat) and trade anything needing repairs to him and back... Tho I don't like limiting docking either but I guess it would indeed provide an incentive to plex... ---
crockett EXE Minmatar Mutineers	Posted - 2009.05.21 14:56:00 - [50] Edited by: crockett EXE on 21/05/2009 15:03:04 Originally by: Val Erian No on the accell gates. Its just another good way to get combat. And TBH its easier to kill whoever is parked on a minor gate in a BS/BC etc because they cant get away by jumping/docking/warping. The problem with plexs not meaning more is that people wont go into them :) you want them to go there. Well I have to say I do disagree with you there about fights on the plex gates. The idea behind the different types of plexes is to allow people in various types of ships to get good fights with others in the same ship class. Having T2 frigs, Cruisers, BC's and BS's parked on a minor gate for example totally negates the entire point of the plex being a minor, being it takes a min to get into it, T2 frigs can easily warp jam a normal frig and it's all over before it begin. There is plenty of places you can fight with the bigger stuff, but plexes are the only place you can get equal ship class fights and the camps on the plex gates kill that option so many times. I do though agree on the random plex spawns, as I actually said this in local the other day as me and my self watched about 10 amarr take all the plexes in Lantorn, just after DT. See that's the problem on our front (minmatar/amarr) with the plexes.. Amarr have pies and a few others whom jump in right after DT and grab all the plexes in the important systems. Minmatar just can't get the numbers that care right after DT to stop them, which makes plexing a moot point.

Kade Jeekin Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:04:00 - [51] Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 21/05/2009 15:06:36 CCP don't want to develop FW until they've sorted out the 0.0 sovereignity gameplay. People loving FW more than 0.0 is exactly what they don't want! To be honest, it's just another example of our need for them to share with us their vision of the future of EVE beyond adding more features. ie Is their a dynamic role for the players in the developing history of the EVE universe? If they want us to write our own stories in 0.0 then why have so much NPC space? There is much potential for making NPC space more dynamic. I guess it's just a question of what they want their developers to focus on. --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:07:00 - [52] Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre Originally by: Lord Zekk The current system for war deccing militia corporations is fine. We've gone through plenty in the 22nd and we've dealt with each one. What you propose would be abused by the bears. If your corp gets decced then sign your corp up with a militia so that the attacking corp has to now deal with an entire militia. Not as abusable as you may think. Yes, you could sign up for the Militia to make the Attacking Corp have to deal with the Militia as well as you, however that then makes you a valid target to the Entirity of Both Opposing Militia's as well. And we've seen enough High Sec raiding by all the Militia's to know that even in the depths of your own High Sec you're never safe if you're in the Militia. To use an example, a Corp based in Gallente Space joins the Gallente Militia in response to a Wardec. Suddenly they've increased the pool of people that can shoot at them legally by over 5000 from the Caldari Militia alone as well as cutting themselves off from easy access to Amarr or Caldari Space. Yes, they could join the Militia for Protection, but that protection comes with a cost. Question is, whether the Cost is worth it. Congratulations to Gabriel, the only man in EVE so far who 'gets it' when it comes to proposed changes to the wardec mechanics of FW. Merely joining FW would not be the immunization from hostilities you opponents claim it would be, for it then opens up said corp to attacks from all in the rival militias. And your corp would not be able to join any militia if currently under any existing wardecs, either ones you declared or were declared against you. You might even have a timer wherein there must be one week of no wars before any player corp can even join FW. The people most opposed to changing the borked mechanics of FW wardecs fall into two camps: 1.) Player corps large enough and rich enough to field the proper response to pirates wardeccing them within the confines of FW and 2.) Pirate corps themselves who are currently enjoying the exploit by which they can attack a soldier from an allied force and kill him right in front of his fellow soldiers, while they are unable to do absolutely anything about it. It's retrded and needs to be fixed. -- Meridius Dex* Visit the Gunship Forums --
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:38:00 - [53] Edited by: EVIL SYNNs on 21/05/2009 15:39:02 Originally by: Meridius Dex The people most opposed to changing the borked mechanics of FW wardecs fall into two camps: 1.) Player corps large enough and rich enough to field the proper response to pirates wardeccing them within the confines of FW and 2.) Pirate corps themselves who are currently enjoying the exploit by which they can attack a soldier from an allied force and kill him right in front of his fellow soldiers, while they are unable to do absolutely anything about it. As a corp who has been war decc'ed numerous times and we also have 2 active wars we pay for at the moment, who have been in FW since day 1 and only number 40 people (including alts), never had more than 20 logged in at one time. I don't think we fall into 1 or 2 of the above. We have a simple solution (which I think GDip actually do), and that is fly as a corp see the militia as friends, not allies.
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:53:00 - [54] That is, indeed, what we do. And, yes, my corp is not one of those who suffer under this mechanic. What I am doing, however, is trying my best to be objective and see FW from a perspective other than my own. Regardless of whether I or my corp have ever been handicapped by the issue, it remains a serious one for Faction Warfare at large and skews the concept of these two warring militias fighting one another. It also allows large 'bully' pirate corps to cherry pick smaller, weaker corps who are exposed to them only because they are participating in FW fleets with their comrades. I stand by my assertion that it's a f'ked mechanic. -- Meridius Dex Visit the Gunship Forums --
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 16:19:00 - [55] Originally by: Meridius Dex Pirate corps themselves who are currently enjoying the exploit by which they can attack a soldier from an allied force and kill him right in front of his fellow soldiers, while they are unable to do absolutely anything about it. I assume this happens in low sec. So why are they "unable to do absolutely anything about it"? Certainly, they could just attack said 'pirates'.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 16:40:00 - [56] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 16:44:43 I'm agreeing with Gabriel Darkefyre a lot on his points. And he has good ones. The WarDec mechanic for FW is something that I too feel must be changed. Being in a fleet and of the Militia and having them not able to help you beyond repping you is just not right in my eyes. Originally by: Neacail Originally by: Meridius Dex Pirate corps themselves who are currently enjoying the exploit by which they can attack a soldier from an allied force and kill him right in front of his fellow soldiers, while they are unable to do absolutely anything about it. I assume this happens in low sec. So why are they "unable to do absolutely anything about it"? Certainly, they could just attack said 'pirates'. But they run a risk, if they attack the pirates they recieve a global criminal countdown and are now open to attack by gate guns. With the amount of Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers that fly in fleets on all sides this is just not an option. --- Once again I must stress that this is not about a single faction, this is about everyone as players and how I feel we've been slighted by CCP.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 16:53:00 - [57] Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 16:44:43 I'm agreeing with Gabriel Darkefyre a lot on his points. And he has good ones. The WarDec mechanic for FW is something that I too feel must be changed. Being in a fleet and of the Militia and having them not able to help you beyond repping you is just not right in my eyes. Originally by: Neacail Originally by: Meridius Dex Pirate corps themselves who are currently enjoying the exploit by which they can attack a soldier from an allied force and kill him right in front of his fellow soldiers, while they are unable to do absolutely anything about it. I assume this happens in low sec. So why are they "unable to do absolutely anything about it"? Certainly, they could just attack said 'pirates'. But they run a risk, if they attack the pirates they recieve a global criminal countdown and are now open to attack by gate guns. With the amount of Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers that fly in fleets on all sides this is just not an option. --- Once again I must stress that this is not about a single faction, this is about everyone as players and how I feel we've been slighted by CCP. Hey if i am attacking pirate i am not getting globals, wtf are you talking guys?
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 16:56:00 - [58] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 16:57:22 Originally by: Bad Messenger Hey if i am attacking pirate i am not getting globals, wtf are you talking guys? Well technically you're talking about attacking a person with an "Outlaw" Status or a Global Criminal Countdown. We're talking about people committing the act of Piracy Someone can be a Pirate but not have a Permanent Global Flag
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:07:00 - [59] Originally by: Shun Makoto But they run a risk, if they attack the pirates they recieve a global criminal countdown and are now open to attack by gate guns. With the amount of Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers that fly in fleets on all sides this is just not an option. Good solution here is to go to plexes then. I mean, while back a neutral corp with wardec on Caldari corp hunted fleet members. We went to plex and they followed. I think they assumed we valued our sec status too much as they engaged. Our entire fleet happily took globals and killed the gang theirs for no losses. Then we just ran the button down and global was gone by time we were done. Also, main problem with the decs is the fact that people live in Nourvukaiken. Move to low-sec or even other high-sec to be get some more safety and where people can assist you without CONCORD. Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:13:00 - [60] Originally by: Shun Makoto But they run a risk, if they attack the pirates they recieve a global criminal countdown and are now open to attack by gate guns. With the amount of Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers that fly in fleets on all sides this is just not an option. No. Frigs and Destroyers? Sure. But if I can kill an entire gang of yours with 3 T1 cruisers under sentry fire, you can do so the same with your blob. Sentry fire only does 350 DPS and is spread through whoever has received a GCC. 5 buffered T1 cruisers will last minutes while under said fire. It isn't our problem that your fleet is afraid of a challenge. Besides, as someone mentioned, you can take the fight to a plex or any celestial really. Pirates harassing you? Bait them.



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