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CCP have abandoned Factional Warfare

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Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:16:00 - [61] When you're you have WarDec'd fleetmates the first thing you usually hear is "I'm scrammed!" Not much baiting you can do at that point.
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:26:00 - [62] Originally by: Shun Makoto When you're you have WarDec'd fleetmates the first thing you usually hear is "I'm scrammed!" Not much baiting you can do at that point. Shoot the guy scrambling said fleetmate. Oh wait, you're 22nd. Considering you have to bring 8 guys to kill a (blinky) T1 cruiser, I doubt you'd be willing to take some sentry fire to save a friend. And yes, I'm trolling, but I'm also telling the truth. You're not the only pansies in FW though. You're just the ones I fight the most. Makes me wonder why you even bother to ask why CCP has abandoned FW.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:59:00 - [63] Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 16:57:22 Originally by: Bad Messenger Hey if i am attacking pirate i am not getting globals, wtf are you talking guys? Well technically you're talking about attacking a person with an "Outlaw" Status or a Global Criminal Countdown. We're talking about people committing the act of Piracy Someone can be a Pirate but not have a Permanent Global Flag So you talking about neutrals then. okey. Now you are asking that when you are in militia you should get automatically killing rights when some civilians has unfinished business with your fellow militia members. Come on guys :D There is always option to be in npc militia corp without extra war dec.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:13:00 - [64] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:15:00 We're saying that when a Corporation WarDecs on Militia Corporation they WarDec all of the Militia, not just a little section of it. It makes no logical sense that they can freely attack part of the militia and not get attacked by the entire militia. There should be extra risk involved when WarDecing the Militia just like there is when you WarDec a Corporation that is part of an Alliance. Neacail: I will not have any form of trolling in this thread. You've been warned.
Turelus Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:23:00 - [65] Maybe the Pirate NPC space should get their own militias so pirate corps can join them and fight for space! ALL OUT WAR! I have seen some awesome ideas in this thread, and thank you Shun for doing something I wanted to do a long time ago but wimped out on (troll's scare me now I lost my +3 flaming sword) I think the wardec system is fine, sure it sucks to get singled out but if you a corp pilot maybe you should fly with your corp or bring friends with you instead of going out alone to join the tama blob. Plexing LP is still one of the greatest ideas ever! Everyone keeps saying plexing is PVE so let's get some bloody PVE rewards! LP payouts equal to the VP would be fine, and just have some rare/unique items on the market for us! Caldari Milita Raven? System occupancy should mean something because the Gallenre ARE RIGHT! really when we get last last ten systems then what? the 22nd is talking about leaving FW now because we have nothing left to do, we spent six months painting a map blue and other than some standing/fights/fame what did it do?
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:25:00 - [66] You have to understand that there is NPC militia corporations who are not player corps. So it can not be regular alliance. It seems so hard to understand that ccp has protected faction warfare itself by making npc militia corps. It has nothing to do with player corps who are allowed to join faction warfare as corporation. They do not form alliance, they are only part of same militia and fighting only for their country not for some private war things. That is why those have different colour etc...
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:26:00 - [67] Edited by: Neacail on 21/05/2009 18:28:49 Originally by: Shun Makoto We're saying that when a Corporation WarDecs on Militia Corporation they WarDec all of the Militia, not just a little section of it. It makes no logical sense that they can freely attack part of the militia and not get attacked by the entire militia. There should be extra risk involved when WarDecing the Militia just like there is when you WarDec a Corporation that is part of an Alliance. This is just a mechanic to prevent what would otherwise be an alliance with thousands of players from protecting a single, somewhat unrelated corporation. It works. If you want to help your friends, do it. Once again, if you're afraid of sentries, you can take the fight somewhere else. Remember to always ask if anybody in your fleet is part of a wardec, and prepare accordingly. Although Bad Messenger is right in saying that it makes sense private wardecs are separated from a faction sanctioned war involving volunteer (militia) fighters. If you don't want to deal with both kinds of war targets, you can just leave FW for the duration of the wardec. Stop trying to make things easier than they already are. Originally by: Shun Makoto Neacail: I will not have any form of trolling in this thread. You've been warned. You seem to think I care.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:31:00 - [68] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:35:25 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:31:58 Forgive if I'm wrong but a Corporation that joins the Militias joins the State Protectorate, the Federal Defense Union, 24th Imperial Crusade, or Tribal Liberation Force because these are the Corporations charged by their Governments to run the War? Are those Corporations not unlike an overlying Executor Corporation? And if those Corps that join the Militia are indeed Sub Corporations of the Caldari State, Gallente Federation, Amarr Empire, or Minmatar Republic then would not WarDecing us cause those who do so open to attacks by Navy and Customs Ships? Originally by: Neacail Originally by: Shun Makoto Neacail: I will not have any form of trolling in this thread. You've been warned. You seem to think I care. Good then you won't mind that you've already been reported for trolling in a thread.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:35:00 - [69] Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:31:58 Forgive if I'm wrong but a Corporation that joins the Militias joins the State Protectorate, the Federal Defense Union, 24th Imperial Crusade, or Tribal Liberation Force because these are the Corporations charged by their Governments to run the War? Are those Corporations not unlike an overlying Executor Corporation? And if those Corps that join the Militia are indeed Sub Corporations of the Caldari State, Gallente Federation, Amarr Empire, or Minmatar Republic then would not WarDecing us cause those who do so open to attacks by Navy and Customs Ships? As i said, Corporations join to Faction Warfare and fights for their country not vice versa.
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:35:00 - [70] Edited by: Neacail on 21/05/2009 18:37:22 You should look up the definition of 'Militia'. But I will tell you, it can be interpreted, and therefore easily justified, that the militia should not receive any form of assistance against something (private wardecs) that is not, in any form, related to the war at hand (FW). Originally by: Shun Makoto Originally by: Neacail Originally by: Shun Makoto Neacail: I will not have any form of trolling in this thread. You've been warned. You seem to think I care. Good then you won't mind that you've already been reported for trolling in a thread. Actually, I appreciate the gesture. I guess I do care after all.

Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:37:00 - [71] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:48 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:16 So we are to fight for our State, Empire whatever and they leave us in the dust when we come under attack from outside forces? That I see as ridiculous. (I am of course speaking of when we are in High Security space.)
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:38:00 - [72] Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:16 So we are to fight for our State, Empire whatever and they leave us in the dust when we come under attack from outside forces? That I see as ridiculous. Happens in real life too. Big deal. Originally by: Shun Makoto (I am of course speaking of when we are in High Security space. I would expect help in Low Security space) Move to low sec and fight back.
Draco Rosso	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:39:00 - [73] Originally by: Neacail Originally by: Shun Makoto When you're you have WarDec'd fleetmates the first thing you usually hear is "I'm scrammed!" Not much baiting you can do at that point. Shoot the guy scrambling said fleetmate. Oh wait, you're 22nd. Considering you have to bring 8 guys to kill a (blinky) T1 cruiser, bla bla bla bla I love pirate tears. All I want to see from these numerous threads is for ccp to set the record straight.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:40:00 - [74] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:42:00 I personally do live in Low Security space fyi, but this isn't about me, this is about the playerbase and Factional Warfare, what needs to change, what needs to stay the same and letting CCP know that we won't be the forgotten project of EVE. Because no matter how much you want to deny it we have been the forgotten project of EVE, if you can't acknowledge that I don't know where you've been sticking your head for the past couple of months.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:41:00 - [75] Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:48 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:16 So we are to fight for our State, Empire whatever and they leave us in the dust when we come under attack from outside forces? That I see as ridiculous. (I am of course speaking of when we are in High Security space.) Factions have problems to fight against each others, that is why they are asking their citizens to help. They have no resources to protect you as corporation. If you need protection you should join npc militia corporation, there they have those things in order.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:44:00 - [76] Originally by: Bad Messenger Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:48 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:16 So we are to fight for our State, Empire whatever and they leave us in the dust when we come under attack from outside forces? That I see as ridiculous. (I am of course speaking of when we are in High Security space.) Factions have problems to fight against each others, that is why they are asking their citizens to help. They have no resources to protect you as corporation. If you need protection you should join npc militia corporation, there they have those things in order. I get your point, really I do. Don't misunderstand that, I just don't agree with how the wardec situation was setup. This is my personal opinion though. Back to the Issue at hand. CCP Did they Abandon Factional Warfare? Your Thoughts and Comments! (And Show your support)
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:45:00 - [77] Originally by: Draco Rosso Originally by: Neacail Originally by: Shun Makoto When you're you have WarDec'd fleetmates the first thing you usually hear is "I'm scrammed!" Not much baiting you can do at that point. Shoot the guy scrambling said fleetmate. Oh wait, you're 22nd. Considering you have to bring 8 guys to kill a (blinky) T1 cruiser, bla bla bla bla I love pirate tears. All I want to see from these numerous threads is for ccp to set the record straight. Tears? I got a few kills and left. It was a fun fight (out of many I had with you). I assure you, you have never killed me. By the way, didn't Shun state no trolling in this thread? I guess you can't help but sink as low as me, though. Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:42:00 I personally do live in Low Security space fyi, but this isn't about me, this is about the playerbase and Factional Warfare, what needs to change, what needs to stay the same and letting CCP know that we won't be the forgotten project of EVE. Because no matter how much you want to deny it we have been the forgotten project of EVE, if you can't acknowledge that I don't know where you've been sticking your head for the past couple of months. I agree FW needs some attention and some things need to be changed. This is not one of them.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:47:00 - [78] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:47:48 Then please go ahead and state what you feel needs to be changed. (if you did already and I missed it then feel free to slap me with a large trout (kudos to all who know that one)) Yes I did say did say no Trolling, Draco...behave... (even though I know its impossible)
Turelus Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:50:00 - [79] Yeah I think we should save the arguments over ideas until CCP actually notice us and ask what we would like changed. FW NEEDS LOVE!
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:50:00 - [80] I have not been part of FW since the first few months. As such, I do not have any specific suggestions. I think the corp/wardec situation is fine, though. As people state, there should be more incentives for actually holding systems, but there have been hundreds of suggestions for that. It's up to CCP, not us, to decide what, when and if something will be done about it.

Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:54:00 - [81] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:54:05 Originally by: Neacail As people state, there should be more incentives for actually holding systems, but there have been hundreds of suggestions for that. Agreed Originally by: Neacial It's up to CCP, not us, to decide what, when and if something will be done about it. Not-Agreed. I believe it's us to make sure CCP remembers that we are still here and that theres a huge amount of players that love FW and we want love too! (All the love is going to 0.0 ) [p.s. Leaving campus for a bit, bbl]
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 19:02:00 - [82] Edited by: Neacail on 21/05/2009 19:02:29 Originally by: Shun Makoto Originally by: Neacail It's up to CCP, not us, to decide what, when and if something will be done about it. Not-Agreed. I believe it's us to make sure CCP remembers that we are still here and that theres a huge amount of players that love FW and we want love too! (All the love is going to 0.0 ) CCP knows about the thousands of players that participate in FW regularly. I'm pretty sure they are aware of its problems and realize something should be done. But I have to ask: since FW was released, what kind of (direct) love has 0.0 received? Most of the changes that affected it (whether good or not) were directed towards most of new eden. And no, wormhole space doesn't count.
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.05.21 19:34:00 - [83] Here's a strange idea, war dec the offending corporations. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
X Gallentius MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.05.21 20:00:00 - [84] Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:48 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:16 So we are to fight for our State, Empire whatever and they leave us in the dust when we come under attack from outside forces? That I see as ridiculous.(I am of course speaking of when we are in High Security space.) You fight for your militia faction, not the state. RP answer: There would be all-out war if the state were officially involved.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.21 20:35:00 - [85] Edited by: chatgris on 21/05/2009 20:35:36 Originally by: X Gallentius Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:48 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:16 So we are to fight for our State, Empire whatever and they leave us in the dust when we come under attack from outside forces? That I see as ridiculous.(I am of course speaking of when we are in High Security space.) You fight for your militia faction, not the state. RP answer: There would be all-out war if the state were officially involved. Then the militia should stick together, and bribe concord a bit of cash to go all out (meaning, the militia can shoot them without concord interference) on anyone who decs a militia corp IMO. RP style of course ;)
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 21:33:00 - [86] Recent things I can name From CCP To 0.0: The Torpedo Stealth Bombers The Addition of Covert Ops Ability to T3 (They can use Cov Ops Jump Bridges)
Parmenides Elea Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.21 22:21:00 - [87] Originally by: Shun Makoto Recent things I can name From CCP To 0.0: The Torpedo Stealth Bombers The Addition of Covert Ops Ability to T3 (They can use Cov Ops Jump Bridges) Stealth bomber changes have made rr bs gangs almost redundent so thats not 0.0 specific as we have found out. You can use cov ops cyno's in low sec as well, WOLFY have done so on a couple of occasions, so again thats hardly a 0.0 specific gain is it. FW is essentially just one big war dec with other bits added on so why should fw pilots be offered any preferences over say low sec pirates for instance. There is only one requirement to join fw and thats standing so anyone can join with very little work to do so. With that in mind ask yourself what have we done to earn special treatment? 0.0 Alliances have to fight to hold onto space and if they fail they loose their incomes etc, if we loose a system what changes, what risk is there to us? OK we loose ships and have to pay for those so I can see merit in the lps for vps idea, it would help some of the younger players or people on tight isk budgets stay in the game longer, but to demand CCP provide fw war pilots with special treatment for doing something that we can join and leave at a whim seems a bit baseless.
Veebora Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.22 00:12:00 - [88] FW is the CCP ugly child. And unhappily they really have lied to us. FW has made no difference on game at all, beside to whom is fighting in it that is currently a lot more poor
Lord Zekk Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.22 01:01:00 - [89] Originally by: Parmenides Elea Originally by: Shun Makoto Recent things I can name From CCP To 0.0: The Torpedo Stealth Bombers The Addition of Covert Ops Ability to T3 (They can use Cov Ops Jump Bridges) Stealth bomber changes have made rr bs gangs almost redundent so thats not 0.0 specific as we have found out. You can use cov ops cyno's in low sec as well, WOLFY have done so on a couple of occasions, so again thats hardly a 0.0 specific gain is it. FW is essentially just one big war dec with other bits added on so why should fw pilots be offered any preferences over say low sec pirates for instance. There is only one requirement to join fw and thats standing so anyone can join with very little work to do so. With that in mind ask yourself what have we done to earn special treatment? 0.0 Alliances have to fight to hold onto space and if they fail they loose their incomes etc, if we loose a system what changes, what risk is there to us? OK we loose ships and have to pay for those so I can see merit in the lps for vps idea, it would help some of the younger players or people on tight isk budgets stay in the game longer, but to demand CCP provide fw war pilots with special treatment for doing something that we can join and leave at a whim seems a bit baseless. Nobody is demanding that we receive any special treatment. All that has been stated, as mentioned in the topic, FW is being ignored and we are trying to get the attention of CCP to make some improvements to said aspect of the game. I wouldn't want FW to be given "special treatment", just treated fairly. Since the launch of FW what has ccp done for FW? 1) Modified something to do with faction navy spawns in high sec 2) Allowed players to warp to acc gate at range (this happened in the second last patch) 3) Somehow allowed players to take plexes while cloaked 4) Created a countdown glitch that has plexes continue to countdown, on occasion, even when there are no pilots in the plex. 5) Tried to do something about lag, but failed miserably. If there is something I'm missing please let me know. This is all the work CCP has put in to FW since it was released over a year ago. ---------------------------------------- We are recruiting. Visit us at http://www.22ndbrdu.com
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.22 07:09:00 - [90] ccp has also made changes that help low sec / fw people. Example latest agility and scan resolution changes were very important for low sec and high sec pvp. You can use bomber in low sec / high sec too (not bombs though) so it was not only for 0.0.



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