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Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.20 20:57:00 - [1] This isn't about the one specific Militia, its about all of us as people who love Factional Warfare. CCP gave us a feature that they said would effect the state of the game. They lied. We barely get IC Coverage anymore, the Factional Warfare Correspondents barely cover anything. I know they are volunteers but if they are too busy with their "life" then we need more of them to fill that hole. Plexing and Bunker Busting doesn't do anything beyond faction standing grinding. We are always posting in this forum suggestions and ideas about what can make Factional Warfare better but do we get any notice from CCP? No, they're too busy with their precious Null Security Space. Well here's some new for you CCP, we have thousands of players engaging in High Security and Low Security Play and we need some attention from you. So CCP you have two options, straighten up, listen to us and improve this Game Feature that you've half-assed or Get rid of it. I'm not a public speaker type people, please post your thoughts too.
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.05.20 21:07:00 - [2] I think the problem with Factional Warfare is the limited scope and lack of goals coupled with being limited to strategic predictability. Pirates don't hang around FW hotzones for the nachos after all. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.20 21:22:00 - [3] Edited by: chatgris on 20/05/2009 21:24:37 Edited by: chatgris on 20/05/2009 21:22:53 My thoughts? Improving it is great. I don't even care if system occupancy is changed to mean something and it gives the other side an advantage, it will just give the gallente a reason to plex for something other than pvp (because, lets face it, capturing a system is most efficiently done as a pure pve activity where possible). Having said that, DO NOT GET RID OF IT. I'm not going to 0.0, and I don't wanna go pie for my pvp, or war dec some noob mining corp in high sec for my pvp fix. I am very appreciative for what fw currently is (a way to get lots of GOOD fights from people who actually want to fight), even if it is never changed.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.20 21:28:00 - [4] My point is that FW is a broken game mechanic, no one can deny that. There's issues with it. We had to twist so many arms just get them to fix little lag issues with fleets in low security. Its just going to keep getting worse.
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2009.05.20 21:40:00 - [5] Don't get rid of it! I believe CCP wanted it to be a way to push people towards 0.0, well I don't want to go to 0.0 I want to stay here. There is a lot of fun to be had in FW, even in its current state, if you know how to find it. But I think a change to the whole occupancy/plex system would really liven things up. Not just so that its "fair" for the gallente (lol - gallente plexers), but a more tangible reward for this occupancy will, at least I think, lead to better fights for plex's. and a revived pvp atmosphere. I used to like this game because of the dev interaction, but Shun, I agree with you, whether it is the fact that they have made no statements on cloaked plexing, or they refuse to acknowledge the problems in FW, its like they just don't give a ****.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.20 21:45:00 - [6] Originally by: Zach Donnell Don't get rid of it! I believe CCP wanted it to be a way to push people towards 0.0, well I don't want to go to 0.0 I want to stay here. There is a lot of fun to be had in FW, even in its current state, if you know how to find it. But I think a change to the whole occupancy/plex system would really liven things up. Not just so that its "fair" for the gallente (lol - gallente plexers), but a more tangible reward for this occupancy will, at least I think, lead to better fights for plex's. and a revived pvp atmosphere. I used to like this game because of the dev interaction, but Shun, I agree with you, whether it is the fact that they have made no statements on cloaked plexing, or they refuse to acknowledge the problems in FW, its like they just don't give a ****. Yeah this is pretty much my feelings.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.20 21:54:00 - [7] I challenge CCP here and now to make an official statement about their plans for FW.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.05.20 21:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Shun Makoto I challenge CCP here and now to make an official statement about their plans for FW. Good luck with that one. What is the exact issue with Factional Warfare that makes it so 'broken'. From what i've been seeing around the low-sec hubs is that it's pretty much alive and kicking.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:04:00 - [9] 1. There's no Dev interaction with Factional Warfare 2. No reward system like the Devs stated they would make (They did say they would make one down the road when they started this project) 3. Plexing while giving a sense of accomplishment does not effect the state of Factional Warfare like it should. 4. We're effectively in the Game Feature Waste Basket. 5. There are still loop holes in the Factional Warfare system, whether plexes (cloaked plexing) or the others constantly mentioned on these boards. 6. Did I mention there's no Dev interaction?
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:09:00 - [10] FW is not broken. It is Gallente morale that is broken. They fight back at the beginning in Ladistier, vifrevaert, some parts of verge vendor, in oms were big figts for plexes. But gallente just finally lost so much in those fight that they have no more guts to come in plexes. Personally i can say that i have had many good fights in fw and most of them in fw plexes. Today was the first day in fw history when there was moment when there was no gallente plex to capture. All were taken. You blaim different things and ask this and that, but it is all about gallente people who just does not want to do anything. Stop whining about fw and go to do something else. You do not need fw for camping tama nourv gate, it has always been camped by pirates.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Bad Messenger FW is not broken. It is Gallente morale that is broken. They fight back at the beginning in Ladistier, vifrevaert, some parts of verge vendor, in oms were big figts for plexes. But gallente just finally lost so much in those fight that they have no more guts to come in plexes. LOL. I guess you gotta live up to your corp name :)
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Bad Messenger FW is not broken. It is Gallente morale that is broken. They fight back at the beginning in Ladistier, vifrevaert, some parts of verge vendor, in oms were big figts for plexes. But gallente just finally lost so much in those fight that they have no more guts to come in plexes. Personally i can say that i have had many good fights in fw and most of them in fw plexes. Today was the first day in fw history when there was moment when there was no gallente plex to capture. All were taken. You blaim different things and ask this and that, but it is all about gallente people who just does not want to do anything. Stop whining about fw and go to do something else. You do not need fw for camping tama nourv gate, it has always been camped by pirates. Damn it BM this isn't about Caldari or Gallente. I said that from the start. I'm saying we've been abandoned, the Devs don't care about us anymore. If you don't have anything else to add to this thread but trolling against Gallente then get out. If you post again with another off-topic troll, I'll report you.
StarGlider7 Gallente Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:19:00 - [13] Just a mo.... The OP clearly stated this wasn't about any particular Faction. Stop trying to use this valid thread, as either propaganda or simply trolling. Fac War is loved by many people...its just getting a bit "Stale" or a bit "samey". The Fact is, alot of folk have been in FW since its inception, they've prolly covered just about every facet of FW. What we're justified in asking, is where CCP consider taking FW for those (irrespective of Faction) who actually enjoy this aspect of the game.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:28:00 - [14] Originally by: Shun Makoto Originally by: Bad Messenger FW is not broken. It is Gallente morale that is broken. They fight back at the beginning in Ladistier, vifrevaert, some parts of verge vendor, in oms were big figts for plexes. But gallente just finally lost so much in those fight that they have no more guts to come in plexes. Personally i can say that i have had many good fights in fw and most of them in fw plexes. Today was the first day in fw history when there was moment when there was no gallente plex to capture. All were taken. You blaim different things and ask this and that, but it is all about gallente people who just does not want to do anything. Stop whining about fw and go to do something else. You do not need fw for camping tama nourv gate, it has always been camped by pirates. Damn it BM this isn't about Caldari or Gallente. I said that from the start. I'm saying we've been abandoned, the Devs don't care about us anymore. If you don't have anything else to add to this thread but trolling against Gallente then get out. If you post again with another off-topic troll, I'll report you. Devs have not forgot us. They are interested about biggest problem in fw , the fw lag. They were with us in that 'lag op' before apocrypha, but they were busy with apocrypha expansion. I am sure that now they have time to fix that lag issue and they are doing all to get thigs better. Other issues are minor issues.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:30:00 - [15] Edited by: chatgris on 20/05/2009 22:32:38 Shun, for not being a public speaker kinda guy, you are doing very well. (I especially like your points to bring up to CCP). Now just remove that "or get rid of it" part, and I'll back you up 100%. I'm not saying this because I think that my opinion really matters in the grand scheme of things, but if you are looking for support, I see that one line as the biggest, most divisive stumbling block.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:36:00 - [16] Originally by: chatgris Edited by: chatgris on 20/05/2009 22:32:38 Shun, for not being a public speaker kinda guy, you are doing very well. (I especially like your points to bring up to CCP). Now just remove that "or get rid of it" part, and I'll back you up 100%. I'm not saying this because I think that my opinion really matters in the grand scheme of things, but if you are looking for support, I see that one line as the biggest, most divisive stumbling block. Fix'd How you like it now?
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Shun Makoto Fix'd How you like it now? The alternative makes me shudder in my boots. The moderators will have to bring dev attention to this issue now! Support :)
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:41:00 - [18] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 20/05/2009 22:41:49 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 20/05/2009 22:41:24 Originally by: Bad Messenger Devs have not forgot us. They are interested about biggest problem in fw , the fw lag. They were with us in that 'lag op' before apocrypha, but they were busy with apocrypha expansion. I am sure that now they have time to fix that lag issue and they are doing all to get thigs better. Other issues are minor issues. The Devs have forgotten us. The lag hasn't gotten much better, there's no call on SiSi to study it further, I don't see GMs or ISD near our battles when they happen, and there's always forewarning, just pay attention to the militia channels. But this isn't just about what they've recently said. They said from the beginning they were going to keep working on Factional Warfare, they were going to make it awesome and they were really excited about it and they were going to keep adding in new and exiting things for us, their player base. Well it seems like CCP was the kid who got the new toy and threw it away when he got bored with it.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 20/05/2009 22:41:49 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 20/05/2009 22:41:24 Originally by: Bad Messenger Devs have not forgot us. They are interested about biggest problem in fw , the fw lag. They were with us in that 'lag op' before apocrypha, but they were busy with apocrypha expansion. I am sure that now they have time to fix that lag issue and they are doing all to get thigs better. Other issues are minor issues. The Devs have forgotten us. The lag hasn't gotten much better, there's no call on SiSi to study it further, I don't see GMs or ISD near our battles when they happen, and there's always forewarning, just pay attention to the militia channels. But this isn't just about what they've recently said. They said from the beginning they were going to keep working on Factional Warfare, they were going to make it awesome and they were really excited about it and they were going to keep adding in new and exiting things for us, their player base. Well it seems like CCP was the kid who got the new toy and threw it away when he got bored with it. Has there been really so important battles that those should go to news ?
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:53:00 - [20] It ain't broke, your just bored, move on. Its a sandbox.. no one forces you to do your thing. You want to see gallente space all blue/green (not sure which is which). I want to see CCP hosted killboard stats. FW is great for both these things. Leave it alone, its fine!!!!!!
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:56:00 - [21] Originally by: EVIL SYNNs It ain't broke, your just bored, move on. Its a sandbox.. no one forces you to do your thing. You want to see gallente space all blue/green (not sure which is which). I want to see CCP hosted killboard stats. FW is great for both these things. Leave it alone, its fine!!!!!! OMG, this must be fisrts time i agree with EVIL SYNNs
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:58:00 - [22] If WOLFY and PERVS agree on something ... its time to leave FW!! anyone looking for smacking talking pvp corp.. p.s. we don't want to leave tama!
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.20 23:00:00 - [23] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 20/05/2009 23:03:02 Originally by: EVIL SYNNs It ain't broke, your just bored, move on. Its a sandbox.. no one forces you to do your thing. You want to see gallente space all blue/green (not sure which is which). I want to see CCP hosted killboard stats. FW is great for both these things. Leave it alone, its fine!!!!!! Evil what the hell did I just say in my original post? This isn't about a single faction, ffs man, FW could be so much more then this, FW could use some simple patches and it could be better. I'm not asking for a complete overhaul here. I'm just asking for the Devs to pay attention to this project that they've seemly left behind. This has nothing to do with my own goals or my Corp's goals.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.20 23:07:00 - [24] Originally by: Bad Messenger Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 20/05/2009 22:41:49 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 20/05/2009 22:41:24 Originally by: Bad Messenger Devs have not forgot us. They are interested about biggest problem in fw , the fw lag. They were with us in that 'lag op' before apocrypha, but they were busy with apocrypha expansion. I am sure that now they have time to fix that lag issue and they are doing all to get thigs better. Other issues are minor issues. The Devs have forgotten us. The lag hasn't gotten much better, there's no call on SiSi to study it further, I don't see GMs or ISD near our battles when they happen, and there's always forewarning, just pay attention to the militia channels. But this isn't just about what they've recently said. They said from the beginning they were going to keep working on Factional Warfare, they were going to make it awesome and they were really excited about it and they were going to keep adding in new and exiting things for us, their player base. Well it seems like CCP was the kid who got the new toy and threw it away when he got bored with it. Has there been really so important battles that those should go to news ? I see it that every day a IC report should be released, Factional Warfare should be a Storyline driving feature and it isn't. I mean if you've forgotten we're fighting a War! That's pretty damn important. When I turn on the TV some of the first stories the News stations report is "Enemies in Such and Such place were taken down by Such and Such Army, more news at eleven" This game has a rich storyline which should not be forgotten, we participate and shape it.
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.20 23:07:00 - [25] Edited by: EVIL SYNNs on 20/05/2009 23:08:54 Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 20/05/2009 23:03:02 Originally by: EVIL SYNNs It ain't broke, your just bored, move on. Its a sandbox.. no one forces you to do your thing. You want to see gallente space all blue/green (not sure which is which). I want to see CCP hosted killboard stats. FW is great for both these things. Leave it alone, its fine!!!!!! Evil what the hell did I just say in my original post? This isn't about a single faction, ffs man, FW could be so much more then this, FW could use some simple patches and it could be better. I'm not asking for a complete overhaul here. I'm just asking for the Devs to pay attention to this project that they've seemly left behind. This has nothing to do with my own goals or my Corp's goals. I read what the hell you said.. WHERE IN MY POST DOES IT TALK ABOUT FACTIONS? You need to calm down dear, get out of the plex, do something different.. your losing it. and I think I speak for 90% of the eve population when i say "NO MORE PATCHES!", can't even go 5 jumps without relogging atm. And why don't you apply to be a ISD? Instead of *****ing.. do something about it? and again I agree with BM.. when has their been something noteworthy in the last couple of months. You can't even get a 20v10 without everyone relogging.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.20 23:10:00 - [26] Originally by: Shun Makoto Originally by: Bad Messenger Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 20/05/2009 22:41:49 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 20/05/2009 22:41:24 Originally by: Bad Messenger Devs have not forgot us. They are interested about biggest problem in fw , the fw lag. They were with us in that 'lag op' before apocrypha, but they were busy with apocrypha expansion. I am sure that now they have time to fix that lag issue and they are doing all to get thigs better. Other issues are minor issues. The Devs have forgotten us. The lag hasn't gotten much better, there's no call on SiSi to study it further, I don't see GMs or ISD near our battles when they happen, and there's always forewarning, just pay attention to the militia channels. But this isn't just about what they've recently said. They said from the beginning they were going to keep working on Factional Warfare, they were going to make it awesome and they were really excited about it and they were going to keep adding in new and exiting things for us, their player base. Well it seems like CCP was the kid who got the new toy and threw it away when he got bored with it. Has there been really so important battles that those should go to news ? I see it that every day a IC report should be released, Factional Warfare should be a Storyline driving feature and it isn't. I mean if you've forgotten we're fighting a War! That's pretty damn important. When I turn on the TV some of the first stories the News stations report is "Enemies in Such and Such place were taken down by Such and Such Army, more news at eleven" This game has a rich storyline which should not be forgotten, we participate and shape it. Here it is daily report
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.20 23:11:00 - [27] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 20/05/2009 23:12:19 Originally by: EVIL SYNNs You want to see gallente space all blue/green (not sure which is which). Bolded Italicized and Underlined since you can't obviously can't remember what you typed @BM: I'm talking about the little news excepts that are on the main page everyday. I want a small paragraph telling me what happened, not graphs and charts. (p.s. I'm leaving campus, so you all don't chase this thread to hell, [though it might already be there], I'll be back later)
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.20 23:21:00 - [28] you got me, edited. Now everyone is calm again. the people who post those little stories are players, like you and me. They felt they wanted to contribute to the story. They gave up their own time, for free, to write these stories, about battles, system captures, story lines. And they did a great job. I can link you to the ISD program if you want, I myself put an app in, however it was to report on the great battles we used to have in FW. However those days are gone, not cause there is no one left to fight, but because the LAG! And I can't roleplay, so the capturing systems wasn't worth my time reporting. Do I think CCP are doing nothing about the lag? NO! I think they are working on it. However as I stated above, there are other people who play this game... how long did people ***** about 0.0 lag fests, or the cyno doomsday, or any other crap. CCP have only a limited number of resources, they have to prioritize things and they will get it. Could FW do with better things? FOR SURE, but so could lots of other professions in eve, they are everyone elses priority. SANDBOX DUDE.... you make of it what you will.
Gabriel Darkefyre Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.20 23:44:00 - [29] Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre on 20/05/2009 23:44:06 It's often said that the Dev's see 0.0 as being the "Endgame" of EVE. If that's truely the case then why are so many guys leaving 0.0 to get involved in FW? To bring up that old Sandbox analogy, the Endgame of EVE is whatever you choose to make of it. We're just asking that the Developers provide the same Standard of Shovel to shape that Sandbox for all parts of the Game rather than giving 0.0 All the Shiny, New Shovels while expecting the likes of FW to make do with the Rusty, Damaged ones. For me, Today's Endgame is firmly in FW. Next Month, it may be 0.0... or Empire Mercenary Work... Or Trading... Or Capital Building... Or Wormholes... Or... Or... Well, you get the picture. --------------- Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs
Unfamed II	Posted - 2009.05.21 00:17:00 - [30] Fix the lag and I'll start getting blown up in bigger ships. Originally by: Sandslinger of CA So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
Finnbarr Dreydus Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 00:22:00 - [31] I agree. There needs to be rewards and real benefits for FW.
Logan Xerxes 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 02:11:00 - [32] Fix the lag and things get massively better with just that. As said by many others in this thread. Most of us do't want to goto 0.0, or don't want to go back. I personally prefer to fight in an area where there's some variance in ship and skill levels rather than just BS/BC/T2/Cap.
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.05.21 03:34:00 - [33] I was in a 0.0 alliance long before I was in FW and have now been in FW for a very long time. I do not miss bubbles and pos warfare one bit. Low sec is great fun to pvp in. Having said that, there are a number of issues which are dragging down faction warfare and it appears there are few options on the upcoming CSM to get CCPs attention back to this feature. I posted a thread recently addressing my ideas for improving FW and would like to repost them here, if for no other reason than - if I post it enough - at some point there must be a dev response of some kind: a.) Wardec mechanics which allow pirate corps to 'cherry pick' individual FW player corps without drawing aggression from the rest of the militia. This fix would mean nothing more than making all four militia factions into Alliances insofar as wardec game mechanics are concerned. Can't dec one corp within without deccing them all. Hell, it'd probably involve changing one line of code for each militia. b.) Provide a real advantage to establishing sovereignty. Deny station services (but allow docking) to enemy combatants in non-militia (npc corp) stations and disallow docking altogether in militia-labeled stations. Doesn't have to be complicated, doesn't need any new set of rules. Just use the nullsec docking code for FW with those stations that are militia in nature (those having the respective militia in their names - Tribal Liberation Force Logisitics Plant, 24th Imperial Crusade Testing Facilities, etc.). If you don't have occupancy, your militia can't dock in those stations. You could still dock in any non-militia stations in any system (Quafe Company Warehouse, etc.) regardless of occupancy, but perhaps with station services cut off to whichever militia does not have system occupancy. Perhaps cutting off station services in NPC stations might be seen as too extreme, I don't know. Some faction warfare systems have NPC corp stations in them, others do not. Systems which have only militia stations will be something for enemies to consider when flying through an enemy-occupied system -- and give them a good reason for taking said systems themselves. This would make FW a little bit more like 0.0-with-training-wheels, as CCP say they intend. If you are "behind enemy lines" roaming or fighting in enemy occupied space, it will not be so easy to just dock up and get repairs (or avoid fights). c.) Plex spawning. Insure the mechanics are such that plexes spawn more evenly throughout the day and in plenty of out-of-the-way FW systems to encourage more solo and small gang roaming outside the major pipes (Kamela/Kourm/Auga/Amamake, Tama/Suj/Heyd/OMS). This requires no further explanation, as most everyone - CCP included - agree the plex spawning mechanics are fubared at the moment. As far as cloaking and speedtanking the plexes, the solution there is also a simple one: One must destroy all NPCs in a plex in order to finish said plex. You can still run the timer down, cloak up and speed tank all you like, but it will just keep flashing "0.00 seconds" until someone finishes off any and all rats. (continued) -- Meridius Dex Visit the Gunship Forums --
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.05.21 03:34:00 - [34] d.) Establish modest Loyalty Point awards for FW activity. This should be low enough that high-level mission running is still far more lucrative to dissuade farming, yet provide enough incentive to plex, thus opening more pvp opportunities in more systems not in the main pipes mentioned above. Taking a couple minor plexes down might grant enough LPs to buy faction ammo, for example. Changing sovereignty (or successfully defending a bunker) should grant enough LP to purchase faction frigates. Faction cruisers and other significant rewards should be the result of accumulating larger amounts of LP. I don't think giving actual ISK rewards would be the way to go with this at all. It should be Loyalty Point based for such items as may be purchased only in the Faction store. And to avoid farming, make taking a Major Unrestricted plex scale to about 2/3 what a single Level IV mission would earn a high sec carebear, and scale all LP rewards for lesser plexes down from there. Remember that this is not like mission running. If these changes are implemented, you'll have to not only kill all the rats in a plex but do so with potentially scores of WTs searching through many of these systems looking to gank you. As always, make offensive plexing more rewarding then defensive plexing. -- Meridius Dex Visit the Gunship Forums --
Lord Zekk Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 07:34:00 - [35] Edited by: Lord Zekk on 21/05/2009 07:35:41 Who over thinks faction warfare is fine the way it is only thinks so for one reason. "It's a free wardec! Thousands of targets to shoot at anywhere in low sec as well as high sec!" That's all about FW that works the way it should. Everything else needs more work. Lag Missions Plexing Occupancy Did I mention lag? Just once I would like to get into a FW fight involving 50 pilots and actually see myself die, not find out that I popped after 5 minutes of starting at frozen screen only to wake up in a station or have to relog to find myself in a pod. That is not too much to ask. ---------------------------------------- We are recruiting. Visit our recruitment page here or visit our http://www
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 07:53:00 - [36] Originally by: Meridius Dex d.) stuff a. This is not so simple thing. Making it possible to war dec whole militia may bring alliances to faction warfare. Getting war dec example from goons to whole militia could be worse than single corp wardecs. Also being under militia protection could be used to protect your corp against war dec. So i think ccp has thought this quite well and current situation is only possible option in practise. b. making some thing not available for enemy faction does not work. If you have to dock to station where station services etc. are disabled you will just quit militia and fix your ship and go away and rejoin later. If they implement some advantages it should be something extra, like free repair etc (could be exloitable too) c. cloaking and speed tanking are not major problem. If you speed tank you can not fight against enemy. It is ment that other players defend plexes not npc. npc is there only for getting some advantage to defender making it little harder for attacker. plex spawning is quite compilicated thing. There is always plexes somewhere you just have to find them. giving plexes all day to one system could make it flip just faster. Capturing plex in system A may result it spawn to system X. So current plex spawning system makes it worth to plex all over fw area not just in system that is currently under attack. d. maybe conversing victory points to lp points and putting some extra to fw lp store may be enough. best plexers have under 400k victory point so it is not much compared to normal mission running lp points
Lord Zekk Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 08:01:00 - [37] Originally by: Bad Messenger d. maybe conversing victory points to lp points and putting some extra to fw lp store may be enough. best plexers have under 400k victory point so it is not much compared to normal mission running lp points This is a suggestion that I have heard many times and probably the best way to introduce some kind of rewards to plexing. Between LP for plexes and removing the ability to take plexes while cloaked, the plexing bit of FW would be great and it would address the problem of rewards without going overboard which would result in farming. ---------------------------------------- We are recruiting. Visit us at http://www.22ndbrdu.com
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.21 09:23:00 - [38] I'd like to see an overhaul of the FW missions. As things stand, they take longer than normal missions, they're tougher than normal missions, but they don't offer better rewards than ordinary missions. How about reducing their travel distances and and offering unique items in the militia LP stores? I'd also like more input from the factions themselves. The couple of times when NPCs have ordered militias to focus on specific systems worked well, in my view. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Gabriel Darkefyre Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.21 09:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Bad Messenger Originally by: Meridius Dex d.) stuff a. This is not so simple thing. Making it possible to war dec whole militia may bring alliances to faction warfare. Getting war dec example from goons to whole militia could be worse than single corp wardecs. Also being under militia protection could be used to protect your corp against war dec. So i think ccp has thought this quite well and current situation is only possible option in practise. How about a simple solution then? Keep it possible to Wardec Single Corporations within the Militia using the current Mechanics, However Also Add the Following:- - You Flag as a Valid Target for all members of that Particular Militia and can be shot at without NPC Repercussions (CONCORD / Gate Guns). However, you can only engage members of the Corp you Wardecced UNLESS engaged by another Militia Member in which case you gain aggression to them and can return Fire. I.E. Say you Wardec PERVS, you become a Valid target for the entire Caldari Militia, but you can only shoot PERVS Freely, shooting any other Caldari Militia Member requires them to fire first. --------------- Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 09:27:00 - [40] Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre Originally by: Bad Messenger Originally by: Meridius Dex d.) stuff a. This is not so simple thing. Making it possible to war dec whole militia may bring alliances to faction warfare. Getting war dec example from goons to whole militia could be worse than single corp wardecs. Also being under militia protection could be used to protect your corp against war dec. So i think ccp has thought this quite well and current situation is only possible option in practise. How about a simple solution then? Keep it possible to Wardec Single Corporations within the Militia using the current Mechanics, However Also Add the Following:- - You Flag as a Valid Target for all members of that Particular Militia and can be shot at without NPC Repercussions (CONCORD / Gate Guns). However, you can only engage members of the Corp you Wardecced UNLESS engaged by another Militia Member in which case you gain aggression to them and can return Fire. I.E. Say you Wardec PERVS, you become a Valid target for the entire Caldari Militia, but you can only shoot PERVS Freely, shooting any other Caldari Militia Member requires them to fire first. I do not see any problems on current situation. Why it should be different? Why you should have different rules in fw?
Lord Zekk Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 10:22:00 - [41] The current system for war deccing militia corporations is fine. We've gone through plenty in the 22nd and we've dealt with each one. What you propose would be abused by the bears. If your corp gets decced then sign your corp up with a militia so that the attacking corp has to now deal with an entire militia. ---------------------------------------- We are recruiting. Visit us at http://www.22ndbrdu.com
crockett EXE Minmatar Mutineers	Posted - 2009.05.21 11:40:00 - [42] Edited by: crockett EXE on 21/05/2009 11:45:02 Why does this seem like yet another cloaked Caldri thread about why PVE plexing should mean something?? Plexing doesn't need to mean anything, other than a way to get faction standings and to get PVP fights. The only changes I'd make to plexing would be to do away with the acceleration gates and maybe give some faction LP points or something. The reason plexing has nothing to do with Sov and so on IMO is because it would turn into a bunch of PVEr's running from any fight and trying to ninja any plex they can with out any resistance. That or it would be nothing but blobs instead of small gang warfare. Plexing, should be nothing more than a way to force the other side to ship down to get a fight. Plexes have the ability to be a battlefield equalizer if they were adjusted a bit, however to do that the acceleration gates need to go. The reason I say this, is because it's far too easy right now for one side to park BS's, BC's, Cruisers ect...ect on the gates of say Minors for example to kill any frigs that try to get in. IMO the plexes should all be set up like unrestricteds, but should only show up on overview if you are in a ship that can fit in it. A simple change like this would allow plexes to become a ship equalizer as I think they were designed to be. We don't need SOV BS to come to FW, it's great with out all the dumb null sec politics and it's nice to have quick fights. If you want system captures to mean something, then go to null sec where they do mean something. The only other changes I'd make, would be to fix the lag and to make FW missions worth doing. Other than that, FW is fine for what it was made for and that's lots of WT's and quick fights with out all the null sec BS.
Gabriel Darkefyre Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.21 11:47:00 - [43] Originally by: Lord Zekk The current system for war deccing militia corporations is fine. We've gone through plenty in the 22nd and we've dealt with each one. What you propose would be abused by the bears. If your corp gets decced then sign your corp up with a militia so that the attacking corp has to now deal with an entire militia. Not as abusable as you may think. Yes, you could sign up for the Militia to make the Attacking Corp have to deal with the Militia as well as you, however that then makes you a valid target to the Entirity of Both Opposing Militia's as well. And we've seen enough High Sec raiding by all the Militia's to know that even in the depths of your own High Sec you're never safe if you're in the Militia. To use an example, a Corp based in Gallente Space joins the Gallente Militia in response to a Wardec. Suddenly they've increased the pool of people that can shoot at them legally by over 5000 from the Caldari Militia alone as well as cutting themselves off from easy access to Amarr or Caldari Space. Yes, they could join the Militia for Protection, but that protection comes with a cost. Question is, whether the Cost is worth it. --------------- Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs
Parmenides Elea Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.21 12:06:00 - [44] War dec rules are fine. If you get war decc'd just don't join the militia blobs, fight it out as a corp. PvP is why joined FW isn't it? Lag is the main issue with FW and CCP has recognised this and are working on it, patienece people! I'm not going to enter the plexing debate, people know where WOLFY stand on this and I'm getting tired of typing the same things over and over again. What other "problems" are there in FW? Personally I love what CCP have done and have great fun every time I log on, win or loose.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.05.21 13:04:00 - [45] null Originally by: Bad Messenger FW is not broken. It is Gallente morale that is broken. They fight back at the beginning in Ladistier, vifrevaert, some parts of verge vendor, in oms were big figts for plexes. But gallente just finally lost so much in those fight that they have no more guts to come in plexes. Personally i can say that i have had many good fights in fw and most of them in fw plexes. Today was the first day in fw history when there was moment when there was no gallente plex to capture. All were taken. You blaim different things and ask this and that, but it is all about gallente people who just does not want to do anything. Stop whining about fw and go to do something else. You do not need fw for camping tama nourv gate, it has always been camped by pirates. Umm, that's someone on your side making the claims.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.05.21 13:19:00 - [46] Originally by: Logan Xerxes Fix the lag and things get massively better with just that. As said by many others in this thread. Most of us do't want to goto 0.0, or don't want to go back. I personally prefer to fight in an area where there's some variance in ship and skill levels rather than just BS/BC/T2/Cap. I agree with that 100%. The plexing mechanics need tinkering to make the whole thing actually worth something, but it's the lag that requires the attention first of all.
Val Erian Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia	Posted - 2009.05.21 14:09:00 - [47] Quote: Plexing, should be nothing more than a way to force the other side to ship down to get a fight. Plexes have the ability to be a battlefield equalizer if they were adjusted a bit, however to do that the acceleration gates need to go. No on the accell gates. Its just another good way to get combat. And TBH its easier to kill whoever is parked on a minor gate in a BS/BC etc because they cant get away by jumping/docking/warping. The problem with plexs not meaning more is that people wont go into them :) you want them to go there. As for Bad Messenger, for someone who is so clever about lots of things he is very mis informed about other aspects of FW. best example is his prior inistance that the Timezone and RL advantage he enjoys with his fellow corp mates/ Finns is entirely meaningless. ie the ability to play right afte DT when the most plexs are available. So one of the changes needed is a truely dynamic plex spawn so that the majority of plexs do not spawn at a particular time, so that whoever dominates right after DT cant run away with it. And Parm....thxs be that you will stop repeating yourself over and over again. As you said we know where your corp stands. One thing that was suggested earlier Might make things more interesting, is a proposal that ship types be timed to timer running. ie A major plex timer could only be turned by a bc+ ship, medium by cruiser/t2 frig, that way we could get away from the speed tanking wcs merlin running a major. Doubt any such change will be implemented just as others will not be.
Ziriko Keplit	Posted - 2009.05.21 14:14:00 - [48] With all respect to pro-FW block lead by Bad Messenger, I must cast my vote for those who said that rewards in faction warfare is not nearly enough. As soon as our glorious Caldari militia will get 100% occupancy, I will seriouslly consider moving to Ammar militia or somewhere else (and I can absolutelly honestly say that I believe many will do same - move to ammars, 0.0, empire etc. that will lead to radical number drop in active caldari militia pilots). When occupancy will hit 100% there will be no any motivation stay here (i am not fanatical caldari roleplayer). PvP and standing boost you can get in ammar militia as well (or maybe even better). Only thing that keeps mere here for now - i want see total occupancy. And celebrate with rest caladari that "We won Eve" (c) unknown goon. As soon as this stimule will be gone... All rest i probably will easily find in ammar militia. I did not think about this seriouslly YET, so nothing set in stone, but I have feeling that rewards is not enough to keep me interested for much longer.
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.21 14:25:00 - [49] Edited by: Raimo on 21/05/2009 14:26:27 Originally by: Meridius Dex b.) Provide a real advantage to establishing sovereignty. Deny station services (but allow docking) to enemy combatants in non-militia (npc corp) stations and disallow docking altogether in militia-labeled stations. Doesn't have to be complicated, doesn't need any new set of rules. Just use the nullsec docking code for FW with those stations that are militia in nature (those having the respective militia in their names - Tribal Liberation Force Logisitics Plant, 24th Imperial Crusade Testing Facilities, etc.). If you don't have occupancy, your militia can't dock in those stations. You could still dock in any non-militia stations in any system (Quafe Company Warehouse, etc.) regardless of occupancy, but perhaps with station services cut off to whichever militia does not have system occupancy. Perhaps cutting off station services in NPC stations might be seen as too extreme, I don't know. Some faction warfare systems have NPC corp stations in them, others do not. Systems which have only militia stations will be something for enemies to consider when flying through an enemy-occupied system -- and give them a good reason for taking said systems themselves. No to denying station services but allowing docking. Just get a neutral alt to follow you/ your gang (Hell, put him in a cov ops to scout for you or god forbid a logistics boat) and trade anything needing repairs to him and back... Tho I don't like limiting docking either but I guess it would indeed provide an incentive to plex... ---
crockett EXE Minmatar Mutineers	Posted - 2009.05.21 14:56:00 - [50] Edited by: crockett EXE on 21/05/2009 15:03:04 Originally by: Val Erian No on the accell gates. Its just another good way to get combat. And TBH its easier to kill whoever is parked on a minor gate in a BS/BC etc because they cant get away by jumping/docking/warping. The problem with plexs not meaning more is that people wont go into them :) you want them to go there. Well I have to say I do disagree with you there about fights on the plex gates. The idea behind the different types of plexes is to allow people in various types of ships to get good fights with others in the same ship class. Having T2 frigs, Cruisers, BC's and BS's parked on a minor gate for example totally negates the entire point of the plex being a minor, being it takes a min to get into it, T2 frigs can easily warp jam a normal frig and it's all over before it begin. There is plenty of places you can fight with the bigger stuff, but plexes are the only place you can get equal ship class fights and the camps on the plex gates kill that option so many times. I do though agree on the random plex spawns, as I actually said this in local the other day as me and my self watched about 10 amarr take all the plexes in Lantorn, just after DT. See that's the problem on our front (minmatar/amarr) with the plexes.. Amarr have pies and a few others whom jump in right after DT and grab all the plexes in the important systems. Minmatar just can't get the numbers that care right after DT to stop them, which makes plexing a moot point.
Kade Jeekin Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:04:00 - [51] Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 21/05/2009 15:06:36 CCP don't want to develop FW until they've sorted out the 0.0 sovereignity gameplay. People loving FW more than 0.0 is exactly what they don't want! To be honest, it's just another example of our need for them to share with us their vision of the future of EVE beyond adding more features. ie Is their a dynamic role for the players in the developing history of the EVE universe? If they want us to write our own stories in 0.0 then why have so much NPC space? There is much potential for making NPC space more dynamic. I guess it's just a question of what they want their developers to focus on. --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:07:00 - [52] Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre Originally by: Lord Zekk The current system for war deccing militia corporations is fine. We've gone through plenty in the 22nd and we've dealt with each one. What you propose would be abused by the bears. If your corp gets decced then sign your corp up with a militia so that the attacking corp has to now deal with an entire militia. Not as abusable as you may think. Yes, you could sign up for the Militia to make the Attacking Corp have to deal with the Militia as well as you, however that then makes you a valid target to the Entirity of Both Opposing Militia's as well. And we've seen enough High Sec raiding by all the Militia's to know that even in the depths of your own High Sec you're never safe if you're in the Militia. To use an example, a Corp based in Gallente Space joins the Gallente Militia in response to a Wardec. Suddenly they've increased the pool of people that can shoot at them legally by over 5000 from the Caldari Militia alone as well as cutting themselves off from easy access to Amarr or Caldari Space. Yes, they could join the Militia for Protection, but that protection comes with a cost. Question is, whether the Cost is worth it. Congratulations to Gabriel, the only man in EVE so far who 'gets it' when it comes to proposed changes to the wardec mechanics of FW. Merely joining FW would not be the immunization from hostilities you opponents claim it would be, for it then opens up said corp to attacks from all in the rival militias. And your corp would not be able to join any militia if currently under any existing wardecs, either ones you declared or were declared against you. You might even have a timer wherein there must be one week of no wars before any player corp can even join FW. The people most opposed to changing the borked mechanics of FW wardecs fall into two camps: 1.) Player corps large enough and rich enough to field the proper response to pirates wardeccing them within the confines of FW and 2.) Pirate corps themselves who are currently enjoying the exploit by which they can attack a soldier from an allied force and kill him right in front of his fellow soldiers, while they are unable to do absolutely anything about it. It's retrded and needs to be fixed. -- Meridius Dex* Visit the Gunship Forums --
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:38:00 - [53] Edited by: EVIL SYNNs on 21/05/2009 15:39:02 Originally by: Meridius Dex The people most opposed to changing the borked mechanics of FW wardecs fall into two camps: 1.) Player corps large enough and rich enough to field the proper response to pirates wardeccing them within the confines of FW and 2.) Pirate corps themselves who are currently enjoying the exploit by which they can attack a soldier from an allied force and kill him right in front of his fellow soldiers, while they are unable to do absolutely anything about it. As a corp who has been war decc'ed numerous times and we also have 2 active wars we pay for at the moment, who have been in FW since day 1 and only number 40 people (including alts), never had more than 20 logged in at one time. I don't think we fall into 1 or 2 of the above. We have a simple solution (which I think GDip actually do), and that is fly as a corp see the militia as friends, not allies.
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:53:00 - [54] That is, indeed, what we do. And, yes, my corp is not one of those who suffer under this mechanic. What I am doing, however, is trying my best to be objective and see FW from a perspective other than my own. Regardless of whether I or my corp have ever been handicapped by the issue, it remains a serious one for Faction Warfare at large and skews the concept of these two warring militias fighting one another. It also allows large 'bully' pirate corps to cherry pick smaller, weaker corps who are exposed to them only because they are participating in FW fleets with their comrades. I stand by my assertion that it's a f'ked mechanic. -- Meridius Dex Visit the Gunship Forums --
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 16:19:00 - [55] Originally by: Meridius Dex Pirate corps themselves who are currently enjoying the exploit by which they can attack a soldier from an allied force and kill him right in front of his fellow soldiers, while they are unable to do absolutely anything about it. I assume this happens in low sec. So why are they "unable to do absolutely anything about it"? Certainly, they could just attack said 'pirates'.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 16:40:00 - [56] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 16:44:43 I'm agreeing with Gabriel Darkefyre a lot on his points. And he has good ones. The WarDec mechanic for FW is something that I too feel must be changed. Being in a fleet and of the Militia and having them not able to help you beyond repping you is just not right in my eyes. Originally by: Neacail Originally by: Meridius Dex Pirate corps themselves who are currently enjoying the exploit by which they can attack a soldier from an allied force and kill him right in front of his fellow soldiers, while they are unable to do absolutely anything about it. I assume this happens in low sec. So why are they "unable to do absolutely anything about it"? Certainly, they could just attack said 'pirates'. But they run a risk, if they attack the pirates they recieve a global criminal countdown and are now open to attack by gate guns. With the amount of Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers that fly in fleets on all sides this is just not an option. --- Once again I must stress that this is not about a single faction, this is about everyone as players and how I feel we've been slighted by CCP.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 16:53:00 - [57] Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 16:44:43 I'm agreeing with Gabriel Darkefyre a lot on his points. And he has good ones. The WarDec mechanic for FW is something that I too feel must be changed. Being in a fleet and of the Militia and having them not able to help you beyond repping you is just not right in my eyes. Originally by: Neacail Originally by: Meridius Dex Pirate corps themselves who are currently enjoying the exploit by which they can attack a soldier from an allied force and kill him right in front of his fellow soldiers, while they are unable to do absolutely anything about it. I assume this happens in low sec. So why are they "unable to do absolutely anything about it"? Certainly, they could just attack said 'pirates'. But they run a risk, if they attack the pirates they recieve a global criminal countdown and are now open to attack by gate guns. With the amount of Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers that fly in fleets on all sides this is just not an option. --- Once again I must stress that this is not about a single faction, this is about everyone as players and how I feel we've been slighted by CCP. Hey if i am attacking pirate i am not getting globals, wtf are you talking guys?
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 16:56:00 - [58] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 16:57:22 Originally by: Bad Messenger Hey if i am attacking pirate i am not getting globals, wtf are you talking guys? Well technically you're talking about attacking a person with an "Outlaw" Status or a Global Criminal Countdown. We're talking about people committing the act of Piracy Someone can be a Pirate but not have a Permanent Global Flag
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:07:00 - [59] Originally by: Shun Makoto But they run a risk, if they attack the pirates they recieve a global criminal countdown and are now open to attack by gate guns. With the amount of Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers that fly in fleets on all sides this is just not an option. Good solution here is to go to plexes then. I mean, while back a neutral corp with wardec on Caldari corp hunted fleet members. We went to plex and they followed. I think they assumed we valued our sec status too much as they engaged. Our entire fleet happily took globals and killed the gang theirs for no losses. Then we just ran the button down and global was gone by time we were done. Also, main problem with the decs is the fact that people live in Nourvukaiken. Move to low-sec or even other high-sec to be get some more safety and where people can assist you without CONCORD. Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:13:00 - [60] Originally by: Shun Makoto But they run a risk, if they attack the pirates they recieve a global criminal countdown and are now open to attack by gate guns. With the amount of Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers that fly in fleets on all sides this is just not an option. No. Frigs and Destroyers? Sure. But if I can kill an entire gang of yours with 3 T1 cruisers under sentry fire, you can do so the same with your blob. Sentry fire only does 350 DPS and is spread through whoever has received a GCC. 5 buffered T1 cruisers will last minutes while under said fire. It isn't our problem that your fleet is afraid of a challenge. Besides, as someone mentioned, you can take the fight to a plex or any celestial really. Pirates harassing you? Bait them.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:16:00 - [61] When you're you have WarDec'd fleetmates the first thing you usually hear is "I'm scrammed!" Not much baiting you can do at that point.
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:26:00 - [62] Originally by: Shun Makoto When you're you have WarDec'd fleetmates the first thing you usually hear is "I'm scrammed!" Not much baiting you can do at that point. Shoot the guy scrambling said fleetmate. Oh wait, you're 22nd. Considering you have to bring 8 guys to kill a (blinky) T1 cruiser, I doubt you'd be willing to take some sentry fire to save a friend. And yes, I'm trolling, but I'm also telling the truth. You're not the only pansies in FW though. You're just the ones I fight the most. Makes me wonder why you even bother to ask why CCP has abandoned FW.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:59:00 - [63] Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 16:57:22 Originally by: Bad Messenger Hey if i am attacking pirate i am not getting globals, wtf are you talking guys? Well technically you're talking about attacking a person with an "Outlaw" Status or a Global Criminal Countdown. We're talking about people committing the act of Piracy Someone can be a Pirate but not have a Permanent Global Flag So you talking about neutrals then. okey. Now you are asking that when you are in militia you should get automatically killing rights when some civilians has unfinished business with your fellow militia members. Come on guys :D There is always option to be in npc militia corp without extra war dec.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:13:00 - [64] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:15:00 We're saying that when a Corporation WarDecs on Militia Corporation they WarDec all of the Militia, not just a little section of it. It makes no logical sense that they can freely attack part of the militia and not get attacked by the entire militia. There should be extra risk involved when WarDecing the Militia just like there is when you WarDec a Corporation that is part of an Alliance. Neacail: I will not have any form of trolling in this thread. You've been warned.
Turelus Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:23:00 - [65] Maybe the Pirate NPC space should get their own militias so pirate corps can join them and fight for space! ALL OUT WAR! I have seen some awesome ideas in this thread, and thank you Shun for doing something I wanted to do a long time ago but wimped out on (troll's scare me now I lost my +3 flaming sword) I think the wardec system is fine, sure it sucks to get singled out but if you a corp pilot maybe you should fly with your corp or bring friends with you instead of going out alone to join the tama blob. Plexing LP is still one of the greatest ideas ever! Everyone keeps saying plexing is PVE so let's get some bloody PVE rewards! LP payouts equal to the VP would be fine, and just have some rare/unique items on the market for us! Caldari Milita Raven? System occupancy should mean something because the Gallenre ARE RIGHT! really when we get last last ten systems then what? the 22nd is talking about leaving FW now because we have nothing left to do, we spent six months painting a map blue and other than some standing/fights/fame what did it do?
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:25:00 - [66] You have to understand that there is NPC militia corporations who are not player corps. So it can not be regular alliance. It seems so hard to understand that ccp has protected faction warfare itself by making npc militia corps. It has nothing to do with player corps who are allowed to join faction warfare as corporation. They do not form alliance, they are only part of same militia and fighting only for their country not for some private war things. That is why those have different colour etc...
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:26:00 - [67] Edited by: Neacail on 21/05/2009 18:28:49 Originally by: Shun Makoto We're saying that when a Corporation WarDecs on Militia Corporation they WarDec all of the Militia, not just a little section of it. It makes no logical sense that they can freely attack part of the militia and not get attacked by the entire militia. There should be extra risk involved when WarDecing the Militia just like there is when you WarDec a Corporation that is part of an Alliance. This is just a mechanic to prevent what would otherwise be an alliance with thousands of players from protecting a single, somewhat unrelated corporation. It works. If you want to help your friends, do it. Once again, if you're afraid of sentries, you can take the fight somewhere else. Remember to always ask if anybody in your fleet is part of a wardec, and prepare accordingly. Although Bad Messenger is right in saying that it makes sense private wardecs are separated from a faction sanctioned war involving volunteer (militia) fighters. If you don't want to deal with both kinds of war targets, you can just leave FW for the duration of the wardec. Stop trying to make things easier than they already are. Originally by: Shun Makoto Neacail: I will not have any form of trolling in this thread. You've been warned. You seem to think I care.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:31:00 - [68] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:35:25 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:31:58 Forgive if I'm wrong but a Corporation that joins the Militias joins the State Protectorate, the Federal Defense Union, 24th Imperial Crusade, or Tribal Liberation Force because these are the Corporations charged by their Governments to run the War? Are those Corporations not unlike an overlying Executor Corporation? And if those Corps that join the Militia are indeed Sub Corporations of the Caldari State, Gallente Federation, Amarr Empire, or Minmatar Republic then would not WarDecing us cause those who do so open to attacks by Navy and Customs Ships? Originally by: Neacail Originally by: Shun Makoto Neacail: I will not have any form of trolling in this thread. You've been warned. You seem to think I care. Good then you won't mind that you've already been reported for trolling in a thread.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:35:00 - [69] Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:31:58 Forgive if I'm wrong but a Corporation that joins the Militias joins the State Protectorate, the Federal Defense Union, 24th Imperial Crusade, or Tribal Liberation Force because these are the Corporations charged by their Governments to run the War? Are those Corporations not unlike an overlying Executor Corporation? And if those Corps that join the Militia are indeed Sub Corporations of the Caldari State, Gallente Federation, Amarr Empire, or Minmatar Republic then would not WarDecing us cause those who do so open to attacks by Navy and Customs Ships? As i said, Corporations join to Faction Warfare and fights for their country not vice versa.
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:35:00 - [70] Edited by: Neacail on 21/05/2009 18:37:22 You should look up the definition of 'Militia'. But I will tell you, it can be interpreted, and therefore easily justified, that the militia should not receive any form of assistance against something (private wardecs) that is not, in any form, related to the war at hand (FW). Originally by: Shun Makoto Originally by: Neacail Originally by: Shun Makoto Neacail: I will not have any form of trolling in this thread. You've been warned. You seem to think I care. Good then you won't mind that you've already been reported for trolling in a thread. Actually, I appreciate the gesture. I guess I do care after all.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:37:00 - [71] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:48 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:16 So we are to fight for our State, Empire whatever and they leave us in the dust when we come under attack from outside forces? That I see as ridiculous. (I am of course speaking of when we are in High Security space.)
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:38:00 - [72] Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:16 So we are to fight for our State, Empire whatever and they leave us in the dust when we come under attack from outside forces? That I see as ridiculous. Happens in real life too. Big deal. Originally by: Shun Makoto (I am of course speaking of when we are in High Security space. I would expect help in Low Security space) Move to low sec and fight back.
Draco Rosso	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:39:00 - [73] Originally by: Neacail Originally by: Shun Makoto When you're you have WarDec'd fleetmates the first thing you usually hear is "I'm scrammed!" Not much baiting you can do at that point. Shoot the guy scrambling said fleetmate. Oh wait, you're 22nd. Considering you have to bring 8 guys to kill a (blinky) T1 cruiser, bla bla bla bla I love pirate tears. All I want to see from these numerous threads is for ccp to set the record straight.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:40:00 - [74] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:42:00 I personally do live in Low Security space fyi, but this isn't about me, this is about the playerbase and Factional Warfare, what needs to change, what needs to stay the same and letting CCP know that we won't be the forgotten project of EVE. Because no matter how much you want to deny it we have been the forgotten project of EVE, if you can't acknowledge that I don't know where you've been sticking your head for the past couple of months.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:41:00 - [75] Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:48 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:16 So we are to fight for our State, Empire whatever and they leave us in the dust when we come under attack from outside forces? That I see as ridiculous. (I am of course speaking of when we are in High Security space.) Factions have problems to fight against each others, that is why they are asking their citizens to help. They have no resources to protect you as corporation. If you need protection you should join npc militia corporation, there they have those things in order.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:44:00 - [76] Originally by: Bad Messenger Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:48 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:16 So we are to fight for our State, Empire whatever and they leave us in the dust when we come under attack from outside forces? That I see as ridiculous. (I am of course speaking of when we are in High Security space.) Factions have problems to fight against each others, that is why they are asking their citizens to help. They have no resources to protect you as corporation. If you need protection you should join npc militia corporation, there they have those things in order. I get your point, really I do. Don't misunderstand that, I just don't agree with how the wardec situation was setup. This is my personal opinion though. Back to the Issue at hand. CCP Did they Abandon Factional Warfare? Your Thoughts and Comments! (And Show your support)
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:45:00 - [77] Originally by: Draco Rosso Originally by: Neacail Originally by: Shun Makoto When you're you have WarDec'd fleetmates the first thing you usually hear is "I'm scrammed!" Not much baiting you can do at that point. Shoot the guy scrambling said fleetmate. Oh wait, you're 22nd. Considering you have to bring 8 guys to kill a (blinky) T1 cruiser, bla bla bla bla I love pirate tears. All I want to see from these numerous threads is for ccp to set the record straight. Tears? I got a few kills and left. It was a fun fight (out of many I had with you). I assure you, you have never killed me. By the way, didn't Shun state no trolling in this thread? I guess you can't help but sink as low as me, though. Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:42:00 I personally do live in Low Security space fyi, but this isn't about me, this is about the playerbase and Factional Warfare, what needs to change, what needs to stay the same and letting CCP know that we won't be the forgotten project of EVE. Because no matter how much you want to deny it we have been the forgotten project of EVE, if you can't acknowledge that I don't know where you've been sticking your head for the past couple of months. I agree FW needs some attention and some things need to be changed. This is not one of them.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:47:00 - [78] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:47:48 Then please go ahead and state what you feel needs to be changed. (if you did already and I missed it then feel free to slap me with a large trout (kudos to all who know that one)) Yes I did say did say no Trolling, Draco...behave... (even though I know its impossible)
Turelus Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:50:00 - [79] Yeah I think we should save the arguments over ideas until CCP actually notice us and ask what we would like changed. FW NEEDS LOVE!
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:50:00 - [80] I have not been part of FW since the first few months. As such, I do not have any specific suggestions. I think the corp/wardec situation is fine, though. As people state, there should be more incentives for actually holding systems, but there have been hundreds of suggestions for that. It's up to CCP, not us, to decide what, when and if something will be done about it.
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:54:00 - [81] Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:54:05 Originally by: Neacail As people state, there should be more incentives for actually holding systems, but there have been hundreds of suggestions for that. Agreed Originally by: Neacial It's up to CCP, not us, to decide what, when and if something will be done about it. Not-Agreed. I believe it's us to make sure CCP remembers that we are still here and that theres a huge amount of players that love FW and we want love too! (All the love is going to 0.0 ) [p.s. Leaving campus for a bit, bbl]
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.21 19:02:00 - [82] Edited by: Neacail on 21/05/2009 19:02:29 Originally by: Shun Makoto Originally by: Neacail It's up to CCP, not us, to decide what, when and if something will be done about it. Not-Agreed. I believe it's us to make sure CCP remembers that we are still here and that theres a huge amount of players that love FW and we want love too! (All the love is going to 0.0 ) CCP knows about the thousands of players that participate in FW regularly. I'm pretty sure they are aware of its problems and realize something should be done. But I have to ask: since FW was released, what kind of (direct) love has 0.0 received? Most of the changes that affected it (whether good or not) were directed towards most of new eden. And no, wormhole space doesn't count.
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.05.21 19:34:00 - [83] Here's a strange idea, war dec the offending corporations. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
X Gallentius MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.05.21 20:00:00 - [84] Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:48 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:16 So we are to fight for our State, Empire whatever and they leave us in the dust when we come under attack from outside forces? That I see as ridiculous.(I am of course speaking of when we are in High Security space.) You fight for your militia faction, not the state. RP answer: There would be all-out war if the state were officially involved.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.21 20:35:00 - [85] Edited by: chatgris on 21/05/2009 20:35:36 Originally by: X Gallentius Originally by: Shun Makoto Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:48 Edited by: Shun Makoto on 21/05/2009 18:37:16 So we are to fight for our State, Empire whatever and they leave us in the dust when we come under attack from outside forces? That I see as ridiculous.(I am of course speaking of when we are in High Security space.) You fight for your militia faction, not the state. RP answer: There would be all-out war if the state were officially involved. Then the militia should stick together, and bribe concord a bit of cash to go all out (meaning, the militia can shoot them without concord interference) on anyone who decs a militia corp IMO. RP style of course ;)
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.21 21:33:00 - [86] Recent things I can name From CCP To 0.0: The Torpedo Stealth Bombers The Addition of Covert Ops Ability to T3 (They can use Cov Ops Jump Bridges)
Parmenides Elea Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.21 22:21:00 - [87] Originally by: Shun Makoto Recent things I can name From CCP To 0.0: The Torpedo Stealth Bombers The Addition of Covert Ops Ability to T3 (They can use Cov Ops Jump Bridges) Stealth bomber changes have made rr bs gangs almost redundent so thats not 0.0 specific as we have found out. You can use cov ops cyno's in low sec as well, WOLFY have done so on a couple of occasions, so again thats hardly a 0.0 specific gain is it. FW is essentially just one big war dec with other bits added on so why should fw pilots be offered any preferences over say low sec pirates for instance. There is only one requirement to join fw and thats standing so anyone can join with very little work to do so. With that in mind ask yourself what have we done to earn special treatment? 0.0 Alliances have to fight to hold onto space and if they fail they loose their incomes etc, if we loose a system what changes, what risk is there to us? OK we loose ships and have to pay for those so I can see merit in the lps for vps idea, it would help some of the younger players or people on tight isk budgets stay in the game longer, but to demand CCP provide fw war pilots with special treatment for doing something that we can join and leave at a whim seems a bit baseless.
Veebora Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.22 00:12:00 - [88] FW is the CCP ugly child. And unhappily they really have lied to us. FW has made no difference on game at all, beside to whom is fighting in it that is currently a lot more poor
Lord Zekk Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.22 01:01:00 - [89] Originally by: Parmenides Elea Originally by: Shun Makoto Recent things I can name From CCP To 0.0: The Torpedo Stealth Bombers The Addition of Covert Ops Ability to T3 (They can use Cov Ops Jump Bridges) Stealth bomber changes have made rr bs gangs almost redundent so thats not 0.0 specific as we have found out. You can use cov ops cyno's in low sec as well, WOLFY have done so on a couple of occasions, so again thats hardly a 0.0 specific gain is it. FW is essentially just one big war dec with other bits added on so why should fw pilots be offered any preferences over say low sec pirates for instance. There is only one requirement to join fw and thats standing so anyone can join with very little work to do so. With that in mind ask yourself what have we done to earn special treatment? 0.0 Alliances have to fight to hold onto space and if they fail they loose their incomes etc, if we loose a system what changes, what risk is there to us? OK we loose ships and have to pay for those so I can see merit in the lps for vps idea, it would help some of the younger players or people on tight isk budgets stay in the game longer, but to demand CCP provide fw war pilots with special treatment for doing something that we can join and leave at a whim seems a bit baseless. Nobody is demanding that we receive any special treatment. All that has been stated, as mentioned in the topic, FW is being ignored and we are trying to get the attention of CCP to make some improvements to said aspect of the game. I wouldn't want FW to be given "special treatment", just treated fairly. Since the launch of FW what has ccp done for FW? 1) Modified something to do with faction navy spawns in high sec 2) Allowed players to warp to acc gate at range (this happened in the second last patch) 3) Somehow allowed players to take plexes while cloaked 4) Created a countdown glitch that has plexes continue to countdown, on occasion, even when there are no pilots in the plex. 5) Tried to do something about lag, but failed miserably. If there is something I'm missing please let me know. This is all the work CCP has put in to FW since it was released over a year ago. ---------------------------------------- We are recruiting. Visit us at http://www.22ndbrdu.com
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.22 07:09:00 - [90] ccp has also made changes that help low sec / fw people. Example latest agility and scan resolution changes were very important for low sec and high sec pvp. You can use bomber in low sec / high sec too (not bombs though) so it was not only for 0.0.
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.22 07:54:00 - [91] I GOT THE ANSWER.. I forgot about this.. its a simple solution to the war dec... let me tell you a story... MENTL join the gallente and base with WOLFY in and around Tama. So did Arzu and (can't remember the name) but Jaorwits corp. We shared a intel channel, for setting up gangs, chat etc. MENTL got war decc'ed by Nights Dawn. As soon as the mail came through WE ALL WAR DECC'ed Nights Dawn. Cost us 50M isk. and 24 hours after MENTL we were all fighting Nights Dawn. I even remember them wotking with the squids so they could get a massive fleet to come into tama, of course the squids let them down and left them hanging and they all jumped (slowly) in to a turkey shoot. So there is the solution, if your friends get war decc'ed war dec them back! AGAIN this goes to everything I want to see in Miltia's. A group of corps working together in their own bit of space, working with each other, defending each other. NOT WHOLE MILITIAs working together, making massive blobs and blocking the sun out with their ships.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.05.22 08:08:00 - [92] Quote: With that in mind ask yourself what have we done to earn special treatment? Maybe it's not something heroic, but I spend a monthly fee in expectation not to be lagged out to death everytime there's more than 15v15. What did the 0.0 guys did to earn the special treatment to be able to fight in bigger fleets? Do they pay more?
Parmenides Elea Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.22 08:38:00 - [93] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: With that in mind ask yourself what have we done to earn special treatment? Maybe it's not something heroic, but I spend a monthly fee in expectation not to be lagged out to death everytime there's more than 15v15. What did the 0.0 guys did to earn the special treatment to be able to fight in bigger fleets? Do they pay more? Lag is an issue, I doubt anyone will deny that but ccp has acknowledged the problem and is working on a fix. Lps for Vps is a good idea, again I doubt there will be many people who disagree with that one either. However the war decs, occupancy, rewards etc are debatable subjects and as such are unlikely to be high priority fixes for ccp to look at. And I believe what the 0.0 guys did and have to do every day is fight to keep their space and their benefits, as I said in an earlier post if one of our systems fall how are we effected?
IronGoldenEagle Orchestrated Violence Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.05.22 08:45:00 - [94] QQ some more 22nd, yall always so funny! Only problem with FW is the lag. And the people, really hate the people. Except Evil synns, the best alt ive ever had!
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2009.05.22 10:49:00 - [95] Nah, I wouldn't say that ccp abandoned FW, its more that they currently abandoned this forums and working on eve in general ^^ I guess they are working on something.. they just aren't telling their customers what they are working on. The rapid growth seemed to mutated them into the typical large company asshats in terms of communication with us.
Bill Bucanon	Posted - 2009.05.22 11:11:00 - [96] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: With that in mind ask yourself what have we done to earn special treatment? Maybe it's not something heroic, but I spend a monthly fee in expectation not to be lagged out to death everytime there's more than 15v15. What did the 0.0 guys did to earn the special treatment to be able to fight in bigger fleets? Do they pay more? they can let a game master know there is going to be a large engagement, and the zones they are going to engage in will get a dedicated blade.
Ahura Dracul	Posted - 2009.05.22 14:08:00 - [97] Just remove the pve from FW. Who genius thought to include pve into a feature meant for pvp anyway... In my opinion FW shouldn't be about making ISK/LP but about blowing your ISK away easy and fast. Rewards should be of fame like perhaps most destructive corp gets it's name on the empire pillboards.
Droog 1 Black Rise Inbreds	Posted - 2009.05.22 16:36:00 - [98] Edited by: Droog 1 on 22/05/2009 16:38:55 There are only 2 things which need fixing. 1-Lag. 2-Complex spawn timers. Giving rewards for a PvP activity would be game breaking. Removing docking rights etc would make it harder to have spare ships in the surrounding Systems and would result in less PvP. CCP have deliberately set out to make it as easy as possible to get a fight without having to worry about things like Sov and making Occupancy 'matter' won't improve Faction Warfare one bit. The only thing people should be concentrating on is how do we get more fights. Having the majority of Systems and Control Bunkers become vulnerable at 14:00 Evetime is not a good start.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.05.22 22:15:00 - [99] I've raised many FW issues through the CSM the past year, and I strongly dislike CCP's non-committing attitude regarding everything FW. * The lag has been very noticeable for over half a year now, yes CCP is "aware of it", but it was supposed to be "wrapped up right after Apocrypha". Well two months later and we still haven't heard anything. * (RP)Alliances in FW: Sure not everyone might like the idea, but CCP said it would be at the top of the list of (FW)things to implement after the EA launch. Well, almost a year later, still vague "Yeah, CCP will do it at some point". If they would fix this, then it would hopefully fix at least some of the wardec cherry-picking problems that currently plague FW. * CCP promised "Unique rewards available only through FW" in their pre-launch propaganda, well, where are they? * "Exciting FW missions where player standings affect mission events and outcomes" Anyone seen any of this? * Complex spawn mechanics: CCP knows they're broken and said they can use the WH spawn mechanics for the FW plexes, but of course nothing happened. * Cloaking Exploit - After the POS exploit we were promised that exploit petitions would be handled immediately, sure that must be why my report was untouched for over a month and why the exploit is still not fixed. I rubbed this into their face extra hard at last weekend's CSM-CCP meeting so I hope they assign some hamsters to fixing it once and for all, if not they'll face my wrath at fanfest. * Incentives for plexing and system occupation, rewards for kills: Acknowledged issue by CCP, heavily discussed this at fanfest as well, but once again doesn't seem to get any priority with CCP. "We agree this is a problem, but hey, we can't commit to doing anything about it" just isn't acceptable in my book. ---
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.05.22 23:39:00 - [100] I've spoken with Ankhe about this and believe she has been on the right path in regards to improving FW. That's why earlier today I voted for Erik for CSM. Still some time left, hope others do the same. -- Meridius Dex Visit the Gunship Forums --
Atraxerxes Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.23 02:40:00 - [101] Quite frankly I agree partly with the fact that FW is awesome and I'd hate to see it go, but I also believe that CCP sole reason for FW was to help get their clients excited about pvp, at least enough so to move into 0.0 space where most of the devs spend their playing time. I think what CCP wasn't expecting was essentially a revolt from it's clients over FW, as it has clearly become more than the launching point for 0.0, as numerous former 0.0 pilots who have a RL and can't do alarm clock ops and hate PoS bashing are deciding to stay in FW. instead of going back to 0.0. AX EVE's #1 (full length) podcast "Fly Reckless" Fly Reckless Voted "Best New Comer" EON Magazine 2009. Listen to it today
Capt Thryss	Posted - 2009.05.23 07:55:00 - [102] Edited by: Capt Thryss on 23/05/2009 07:57:03 for as many posts as there have been concerning FW, the only one I've ever seen CCP reply to is the lag which to my knowledge still has not be completely fixed. I would really like to see someone reply from CCP with their intentions on FW. I'm to the point were i feel the developers don't care about his game mechanic at all any more. I would love to see a post full of people asking them to reply and nothing more....no suggestions, no trolling, just asking them to reply. I honestly believe we deserve that much. I know if I do go to fanfest, I'll be asking why the have neglected FW and the people who are willing to support this aspect of the game.
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.23 09:23:00 - [103] I go to fanfest, and if they do the round tables again I will make sure its mentioned to ad nauseum and hopefully other FW's will as well (and hopefully buy me a drink as well)! ALL YOUR DRINK TOKENS BELONG TO ME as I will be camping the bar in a rapier while you are in caracals!
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.05.23 14:32:00 - [104] I'll be at the fanfest FW roundtables as well, hope to see you there! ---
Shpuntik Invicta. Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.05.23 17:30:00 - [105] i was surprised the big fight we had vs the milita along with bydi in suj wasn't covered along with our fight against dark rising with cry havoc in old man star wasn't put up. They were over 100+ involved and lots of ship kills. ---InViCtA---
Zverofaust	Posted - 2009.05.30 22:14:00 - [106] I agree. It's kind of sad. I was hoping for something more from FW but its pretty much a let-down. Intense lag issues, little purpose... A lot of people have been leaving FW because it's just meh. Neither Amarr nor Minmatar are very interested in capturing systems. It's just blob, lag, go home.
Procopius	Posted - 2009.05.31 00:02:00 - [107] so the biggest mutual problem = lag. solution = CCP finally springs for another server. can it be as simple as that?
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.31 09:27:00 - [108] Originally by: Procopius so the biggest mutual problem = lag. solution = CCP finally springs for another server. can it be as simple as that? This kind of lag is bug in code, making new server does not help much.
Pesets The Hunt Club	Posted - 2009.05.31 11:03:00 - [109] On the wardec mechanics - perhaps the militia itself shouldn't be considered an alliance. But last i heard, you cannot be in militia and a player alliance at the same time, meaning that joining militia forces you to be on your own against anything that decides to wardec you. Correct me if i'm wrong, but that's kinda broken in my opinion.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.05.31 11:57:00 - [110] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: With that in mind ask yourself what have we done to earn special treatment? Maybe it's not something heroic, but I spend a monthly fee in expectation not to be lagged out to death everytime there's more than 15v15. What did the 0.0 guys did to earn the special treatment to be able to fight in bigger fleets? Do they pay more? There was more of them and it went on for long enough for CCP to do something about it.
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.31 12:41:00 - [111] Originally by: Pesets On the wardec mechanics - perhaps the militia itself shouldn't be considered an alliance. But last i heard, you cannot be in militia and a player alliance at the same time, meaning that joining militia forces you to be on your own against anything that decides to wardec you. Correct me if i'm wrong, but that's kinda broken in my opinion. Militia is NOT an alliance and the rules for alliances SHOULD NOT be used for militia. A Militia is a group of people fighting on the same side, but not always together. WOLFY fly with a few "like" minded corps in the militia and we have an agreement, if they get war decc'ed we war dec (24 hour delay behind) if we war dec someone they war dec. I means its a WHOLE 2M ISK!
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.31 15:28:00 - [112] Originally by: Shun Makoto If you Troll in this Thread I will Report you. You report me, I wardec you. K? PS. Don't whine PvE. "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Citation Registration Commission	Posted - 2009.05.31 16:06:00 - [113] Well at least Erik is at it. ---
Booby Trap	Posted - 2009.05.31 16:31:00 - [114] Now that the last gallante system has fallen how are new caldari players supposed to get standings gains and medals . As I understand it there will be no complexes.
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.05.31 16:40:00 - [115] I think it's both good and bad that the Caldari have finally capped all the Gallente systems. It's good because it will finally force CCP to do fix mechanics that have been broken since FW started. It's bad because they've pretty much guaranteed that occupancy will forever being meaningless, and by extension FW as a whole. Barring a complete overhaul of occupancy mechanics, of course. Failure to do either of these fairly soon will drive down FW participation even lower than it is now - doing nothing will cause a lot of Caldari who've put in a lot of time to emoragequit FW and suddenly slapping the Gallente with a beatstick because they decided not to care about something that was always irrelevant before would do the same thing on the other side. I know some excessively hardcore Caldari militia members would love to say 'We beat the Frogs!' and go home, but that's not what would be best for EvE as a whole. FW still has the potential to be great and free wardecs are always welcome but it could be so much more.
Pesets The Hunt Club	Posted - 2009.05.31 18:16:00 - [116] Edited by: Pesets on 31/05/2009 18:21:19 Originally by: EVIL SYNNs Militia is NOT an alliance and the rules for alliances SHOULD NOT be used for militia. I'm not saying Militia is an alliance. I'm saying that it shouldn't prevent you from being in an actual player alliance - which, as far as i'm aware, it does now. Right now Militia works like a half-assed alliance - the game thinks you're in one, except you aren't really. And sure, i can come cry in Militia chat if i get wardecced, and see if anyone cares, but i'd prefer to have other options as well. Originally by: Booby Trap Now that the last gallante system has fallen how are new caldari players supposed to get standings gains and medals . As I understand it there will be no complexes. Do FW missions?
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.31 18:31:00 - [117] Originally by: Kessiaan I think it's both good and bad that the Caldari have finally capped all the Gallente systems. It's good because it will finally force CCP to do fix mechanics that have been broken since FW started. It's bad because they've pretty much guaranteed that occupancy will forever being meaningless, and by extension FW as a whole. Barring a complete overhaul of occupancy mechanics, of course. Failure to do either of these fairly soon will drive down FW participation even lower than it is now - doing nothing will cause a lot of Caldari who've put in a lot of time to emoragequit FW and suddenly slapping the Gallente with a beatstick because they decided not to care about something that was always irrelevant before would do the same thing on the other side. I know some excessively hardcore Caldari militia members would love to say 'We beat the Frogs!' and go home, but that's not what would be best for EvE as a whole. FW still has the potential to be great and free wardecs are always welcome but it could be so much more. Why they should fix anything? There is no more plexes with gallente rats, but nothing else has actually changed. War continues. Now it is Gallente turn to fight agains npc and caldari militia, if they want to get systems back.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Citation Registration Commission	Posted - 2009.05.31 18:32:00 - [118] Originally by: Bad Messenger if they want to get systems back. Chances are big that they don't want them back, no rewards and no consequences isn't a good motivator. Although the consequences remain to be seen of course, who knows what CCP does tomorrow... ---
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2009.05.31 18:39:00 - [119] Edited by: Nyphur on 31/05/2009 18:45:02 Originally by: Bad Messenger Now it is Gallente turn to fight agains npc and caldari militia, if they want to get systems back. Pretty sure most of the gallente militia don't care about system ownership. And most that are interested lose their taste for capping complexes after being permajammed by the NPCs. Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Originally by: Bad Messenger if they want to get systems back. Chances are big that they don't want them back, no rewards and no consequences isn't a good motivator. Although the consequences remain to be seen of course, who knows what CCP does tomorrow... That is a big problem. If they do introduce consequences for system ownership now, they'd be condemning Gallente to having lost a fight that for a year wasn't worth winning. Or they could reset FW system ownership, which would have the effect of ****ing off all the caldari corps that wasted their time grinding the downtime-spawn plexes to capture them. EDIT: For those that haven't seen it, I touched on this issue in last week's EVE Evolved column, entitled "Has faction warfare been abandoned?" EVE-Tanking.com - Helping you keep your hull in-tact.
Swwils	Posted - 2009.05.31 18:53:00 - [120] "the benefits of system ownership would be added later " CCP, Caldari militia are owed 101x of those benefits. Thanks :).
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.06.01 02:48:00 - [121] So how long is it going to take them to fix the map now that another thing from FW broke.
GavinGoodrich	Posted - 2009.06.01 03:45:00 - [122] Lots of really good suggestions to make it more enticing for your usual FW player. Unfortunately for me, there's not enough depth for this to keep going. We took every lowsec system and there's absolutely no change. Roleplay effect is great n' all, but nothing changes for me from a tactical view. No gateguns or faction NPC's shooting me 'cause i'm in a hostile lowsec, any corp or player can dock whatever ship they like in whatever lowsec they like without reprocussion. That to me just seems...off. I'm leaving for 0.0 after some awesome times with some of you, and fighting the others. And some of the stuff went on Youtube for all to see. I'll be leaving for IRON shortly. CCP for me, didn't deliver and/or took way to long to fix a major issue that was plauging hundreds of subscribers from some of the fun of the game. 80 people in one fleet desynching constantly just to get somewhere, then not even being able to turn on your guns/reppers/Ewar and KNOWING you were going to run into this an hour from a fleet forming, and praying you logged back in to an intact ship when the fight just got started...c'mon CCP. You think that's how hundreds of subscribers want to spend thier off-time? Anyways, that's -1 more FW'er I guess. Fix it or you'll lose more. You won't lose 'em all, but you'll lose a lot more on a very much stale game mechanic with little to no reward except for part-time pew pew.
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.06.01 08:13:00 - [123] Originally by: GavinGoodrich Lots of really good suggestions to make it more enticing for your usual FW player. Unfortunately for me, there's not enough depth for this to keep going. We took every lowsec system and there's absolutely no change. Roleplay effect is great n' all, but nothing changes for me from a tactical view. No gateguns or faction NPC's shooting me 'cause i'm in a hostile lowsec, any corp or player can dock whatever ship they like in whatever lowsec they like without reprocussion. That to me just seems...off. I'm leaving for 0.0 after some awesome times with some of you, and fighting the others. And some of the stuff went on Youtube for all to see. I'll be leaving for IRON shortly. CCP for me, didn't deliver and/or took way to long to fix a major issue that was plauging hundreds of subscribers from some of the fun of the game. 80 people in one fleet desynching constantly just to get somewhere, then not even being able to turn on your guns/reppers/Ewar and KNOWING you were going to run into this an hour from a fleet forming, and praying you logged back in to an intact ship when the fight just got started...c'mon CCP. You think that's how hundreds of subscribers want to spend thier off-time? Anyways, that's -1 more FW'er I guess. Fix it or you'll lose more. You won't lose 'em all, but you'll lose a lot more on a very much stale game mechanic with little to no reward except for part-time pew pew. Sry to hear this, your one of the few decent FC's in Squids. However CCP will read your post and go.. "THATS EXACTLY WHAT WE PLANNED!".
Pearre Dash	Posted - 2009.06.01 08:25:00 - [124] You all seem to be forgetting that it took CCP two years for the Khanid Mk. II changes to be implemented, and that was just shuffling around ship stats. Look forward to new and improved FW Winter 2011!
Turelus Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.06.01 08:26:00 - [125] I just made a post about a simple plexing change, for those of you here who like it some support would be nice. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1087075 I was also just speaking over at the 22nd boards about maybe getting a forums set up for us FW players to talk about new changes, it would be neutral ground where faction/side has no meaning and we just work together to think of ideas/improvements together. If you interested give me some feedback I might be able to get it set up this week.
Dern Al'Malik Minmatar Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2009.06.01 10:05:00 - [126] Originally by: Turelus I was also just speaking over at the 22nd boards about maybe getting a forums set up for us FW players to talk about new changes, it would be neutral ground where faction/side has no meaning and we just work together to think of ideas/improvements together. If you interested give me some feedback I might be able to get it set up this week. I think the problem is not in the amount of ideas to improve FW but in the complete lack of CCP response to the ideas. I think the problems of FW have already been presented and analyzed in this board, so I don't think setting up a new forums would change anything.
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.06.01 10:23:00 - [127] Originally by: Dern Al'Malik Originally by: Turelus I was also just speaking over at the 22nd boards about maybe getting a forums set up for us FW players to talk about new changes, it would be neutral ground where faction/side has no meaning and we just work together to think of ideas/improvements together. If you interested give me some feedback I might be able to get it set up this week. I think the problem is not in the amount of ideas to improve FW but in the complete lack of CCP response to the ideas. I think the problems of FW have already been presented and analyzed in this board, so I don't think setting up a new forums would change anything. There is already the Features and Ideas Discussion the CSM et al. CCP have priorties (as every company does), I run my own "virtual world" business and the mantra "You can't please all the people" is true, I can list the positive things CCP have done and they far out weight the negative things CCP have done. Eve is a sandbox, they give you the spade and bucket its up to you to make something, knowing the sands is rather dry, contains some dog dirt etc!
Ziriko Keplit State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.06.01 13:04:00 - [128] Originally by: EVIL SYNNs Originally by: GavinGoodrich Lots of really good suggestions to make it more enticing for your usual FW player. Unfortunately for me, there's not enough depth for this to keep going. We took every lowsec system and there's absolutely no change. Roleplay effect is great n' all, but nothing changes for me from a tactical view. No gateguns or faction NPC's shooting me 'cause i'm in a hostile lowsec, any corp or player can dock whatever ship they like in whatever lowsec they like without reprocussion. That to me just seems...off. I'm leaving for 0.0 after some awesome times with some of you, and fighting the others. And some of the stuff went on Youtube for all to see. I'll be leaving for IRON shortly. CCP for me, didn't deliver and/or took way to long to fix a major issue that was plauging hundreds of subscribers from some of the fun of the game. 80 people in one fleet desynching constantly just to get somewhere, then not even being able to turn on your guns/reppers/Ewar and KNOWING you were going to run into this an hour from a fleet forming, and praying you logged back in to an intact ship when the fight just got started...c'mon CCP. You think that's how hundreds of subscribers want to spend thier off-time? Anyways, that's -1 more FW'er I guess. Fix it or you'll lose more. You won't lose 'em all, but you'll lose a lot more on a very much stale game mechanic with little to no reward except for part-time pew pew. Sry to hear this, your one of the few decent FC's in Squids. However CCP will read your post and go.. "THATS EXACTLY WHAT WE PLANNED!". And then rest caldari militia member will read that and go "Screw this. We will leave too"... And then my little nice cute Synns, whom you will fight when there will be no more caladari militia members
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.06.01 14:26:00 - [129] We fight pirates, we fight neutrals, we fight anyone we don't like the look of. CCP want people to leave FW and go 0.0. But as eve is a sandbox THEY DON'T MAKE US! If we get bored I promise to tell you all. But 1300 kills last month, number 9 corp in Battleclinc tells me WOLFY are happy with the current climate.
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.06.01 14:26:00 - [130] I definitely feel that FW has fallen by the wayside, which is disappointing as it had so much promise initially. The primary problem is that it has no real impact. We assumed back when it came out that eventually system sov/occupancy would mean SOMETHING but apparently it actually means NOTHING. So, sure, Caldari get massive epeen boost and bragging rights for wiping gallente off the face of the map but where is the motivation for (a) gallente to stage a comeback (b) caldari to keep in the fight I think participation in FW is probably about to nosedive, with both caldari and gallente concluding there's not a whole lot of point in it. With the plexxing masses leaving, then you're pretty much left with roaming gangs looking for...non existent opponents. I don't really see any, which is disappointing. I think having a healthy, thriving low sec war theatre would be great for the game and essentially provide two different types of fighting when paired with 0.0 I dunno, give all members of the caldari militia a fleet cruiser and all memebers of the gallente militia a fleet frigate and 'reset' it or something, only this time make capturing systems take longer so you can work out a meaningful impact for it to have before the next time one side 'wins' :)
Simon TheSkull	Posted - 2009.06.01 14:51:00 - [131] OK this may attract flame but meh... One reason Gallente have "failed" FW is due to the imbalance of the plex NPC and a few Caldari corps plexing straight after DT and taking all the plexes. CCP transposed mission NPCs in plex. Gallente hulled, Serpentis are a a lot easier to tank than Caldari based Gurista. This is true for FW plex, the Caldari plex need PvE setups or player numbers, where as Caldari can fit PvP setups and speed tank useless Gallente turret NPCs. [/tinder box]
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.06.01 15:33:00 - [132] Originally by: Simon TheSkull OK this may attract flame but meh... One reason Gallente have "failed" FW is due to the imbalance of the plex NPC and a few Caldari corps plexing straight after DT and taking all the plexes. CCP transposed mission NPCs in plex. Gallente hulled, Serpentis are a a lot easier to tank than Caldari based Gurista. This is true for FW plex, the Caldari plex need PvE setups or player numbers, where as Caldari can fit PvP setups and speed tank useless Gallente turret NPCs. [/tinder box] I don't care about rats, to do what the caldari does requires allot of dedication and work. The bigger side always has the advantage (look at 0.0) but that doesn't mean they WILL win and there is nothing to stop gallente plexing after DT, we just chose to not do it, they did and deserve the plaudits
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn	Posted - 2009.06.02 07:21:00 - [133] Originally by: Simon TheSkull One reason Gallente have "failed" FW is due to the imbalance of the plex NPC and a few Caldari corps plexing straight after DT and taking all the plexes. While the NPCs are more annoying I don't think it's the deciding factor. The main factor is that the Caldari faction is much bigger and thus able to recruit more people with all the advantages (like, if you are in a group even the most boring task can become tolerable. Just look at a mining op compare to solo mining). They also had the better organisation after FOOM left FW - there was no GalMil corp dedicated to plexing any more against three on the Caldari side, and the few FDU plexers that were organized were quickly outblobbed. The post-DT plexing is much overrated IMO - from what I understand it only took major effect when only a few systems were available for a certain type of ple and IMO it's mainly used as an excuse to cover up the unwillingness to go plexing. It's much easier to say "it will not matter due to post-DT plexing" than to actually spend the time to orbit beacons. Not that I blame anyone, plexing is the most boring thing I ever saw. You are right that Caldari NPCs are harder to fight than Gallente ones, but that was only the icing on the cake of the Caldari having bigger numbers. Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn"
Turelus Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.06.02 08:07:00 - [134] Honestly I don't think the size of the Militia made the diference in "winning the war" I mean if you looked at who was doing most of the plexing it was three corps, and even then only a handful of the 22nd were doing it. Most of the mass Caldari militia pilots in those stats are just sat in highsec running mission and have never been into a single FW fight, or just do the pipe blobs every day. On working for new features etc though, I do feel all plex's should have EWAR removed or balanced! yeah it's awesome that each side has it's own racial EWAR in them but it is bloody unbalanced when you think about it. Damping vs ECM? Again on the idea of money/LP rewards for plexing, I don't think money is too great of an idea but it could work (that's what tags are for though) the LP is something I think we should get, I mean LP equal to VP would be so worthless any way! but at least we could save it up and get some cheap navy ammo or something. I still think if CCP wanted to get people to plex more, making system occupancy mean something would go a long way to doing that, as I have said before 0.0 players do mindless pos busting all day because when they do get a system it helps them! I would love to hear some ideas from WOLFY pilots about what kinds of things would interest you into plexing, I know you guys are primarily a PVP corp but could anything be done to make you think about plexing?
qanatas Minmatar Cadre Assault Force	Posted - 2009.06.02 08:39:00 - [135] IMHO The rewards for plexing don't have to be huge. Some lp's for faction ammo, maybe a nice faction frig / cruiser. Not something that would make you really rich, just something to use in the war !
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.06.02 09:30:00 - [136] How can people say numbers don't matter. CCP gave us the ICS page for FW. all the proof you need is there.. in black and white. Caldari average points daily 9,487 Gallente average points daily 9185 taking that the number of systems the gallente ever captured were no more than 10, while the caldari have captured 61. Add into that the gallente number 20-30% less members since day 1. Yet Caldari have won, add into that that every system caldari captured means less system to do the easy defensive plex. Come on. Caldari did a great job, but NUMBERS come it to it alot. Numbers you have, you got and you used, I'm not taking that away, but to say numbers don't come in to it?
TooNu Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.06.02 10:07:00 - [137] THe FDU plex channel had more in it than ours, I guess they were all AFK or couldn't get on after downtime. Here are 2 well known FW facts. 1. !fter downtime plexing is the only way to plex. After this time you have only to scan the systems you are focussing on nad shift plexs from them to the regions you want, this of course is chance based. We did this much better than you and we won. 2. Wolfy spend their time in Tama and kill alot of blobbers and people looking for garaunteed fights in Nourv. Plexing does not occur in Tama in any significant way so it only helps to blockade this system if the results are you don't lose systems. Otherwise the blockade is fail. However, you are there for fights and you do it very very well and that won't change. I jsut want to say that my money is on PERVs over you guys any day of the week

CCP Ytterbium	Posted - 2009.06.02 12:17:00 - [138] I hope you don't mind the interruption, spotted odd noises filtering through the door so I couldn't help but enter. Even if we have been quite silent on this, we haven't abandoned Factional Warfare as we are aware of the issues mentioned in this thread and others. For having discussions about it lately, we do have plans on improving it and it is in our to-do list. Of course you will understand that we cannot give any specific detail at the time being since we cannot promise anything at this point, but keep hope, do not lose faith for there is light at the end of the tunnel.

RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.06.02 12:34:00 - [139] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium I hope you don't mind the interruption, spotted odd noises filtering through the door so I couldn't help but enter. Even if we have been quite silent on this, we haven't abandoned Factional Warfare as we are aware of the issues mentioned in this thread and others. For having discussions about it lately, we do have plans on improving it and it is in our to-do list. Of course you will understand that we cannot give any specific detail at the time being since we cannot promise anything at this point, but keep hope, do not lose faith for there is light at the end of the tunnel. Is it a freight train carrying a new shipment of Nerf Bats? Caldari have acheived something interesting in FW, it does look to the playerbase that its being ignored and that whatever pre-written storyline was prepared has now been derailed. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.06.02 13:57:00 - [140] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium I hope you don't mind the interruption, spotted odd noises filtering through the door so I couldn't help but enter. Even if we have been quite silent on this, we haven't abandoned Factional Warfare as we are aware of the issues mentioned in this thread and others. For having discussions about it lately, we do have plans on improving it and it is in our to-do list. Of course you will understand that we cannot give any specific detail at the time being since we cannot promise anything at this point, but keep hope, do not lose faith for there is light at the end of the tunnel. No offense, we've all heard this before, and we will believe it when we see it. Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success
Gabriel Darkefyre Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.06.02 14:18:00 - [141] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium I hope you don't mind the interruption, spotted odd noises filtering through the door so I couldn't help but enter. Even if we have been quite silent on this, we haven't abandoned Factional Warfare as we are aware of the issues mentioned in this thread and others. For having discussions about it lately, we do have plans on improving it and it is in our to-do list. Of course you will understand that we cannot give any specific detail at the time being since we cannot promise anything at this point, but keep hope, do not lose faith for there is light at the end of the tunnel. Mind the interuption? No. To be honest, we'd rather that you guys were talking with us with regards to FW Problems and Potential Solutions rather than staying Silent in case we take something out of context and start a Flame Filled Lynch Mob as a result. And while we understand that you can't go into specifics, some General Ideas of how CCP would like to Develop FW in the Future would be appreciated. What we don't expect:- "Capturing and Holding Systems will lead to X, Y and Z happening for definate" What we'd like to see:- "We'd Like Capturing Systems to mean something. Some ideas we had are X, Y and Z, It's not set in Stone yet, but what do you guys think? How can we improve these ideas? Are there things that make sense that we haven't thought of yet?" --------------- Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs
Turelus Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.06.02 14:21:00 - [142] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium I hope you don't mind the interruption, spotted odd noises filtering through the door so I couldn't help but enter. Even if we have been quite silent on this, we haven't abandoned Factional Warfare as we are aware of the issues mentioned in this thread and others. For having discussions about it lately, we do have plans on improving it and it is in our to-do list. Of course you will understand that we cannot give any specific detail at the time being since we cannot promise anything at this point, but keep hope, do not lose faith for there is light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you for a post, others may not see this as anything but to me it is at least a sign that our non stop whining at least gets read by CCP. I would hope to see future improvements to FW as it's the main reason I play EVE and I know it is for many others as well.
Fyrkraag Caldari The Knights Templar	Posted - 2009.06.02 16:01:00 - [143] They will probably abandon wormholes too, and move to the next newest feature, which will undoubtedly be broken as well, left unfixed and abandoned, for yet another new design idea. --------- TKT - Fyrkraag The Knights Templar - Achievement with style: Maturity, integrity, respect.
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.06.02 22:32:00 - [144] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium I hope you don't mind the interruption, spotted odd noises filtering through the door so I couldn't help but enter. Even if we have been quite silent on this, we haven't abandoned Factional Warfare as we are aware of the issues mentioned in this thread and others. For having discussions about it lately, we do have plans on improving it and it is in our to-do list. Of course you will understand that we cannot give any specific detail at the time being since we cannot promise anything at this point, but keep hope, do not lose faith for there is light at the end of the tunnel. I want that light. Please bring it, because FW needs a serious kick in the arse to get it going again. All this potential cannot be wasted, and seeing this post by you has completely set my hopes again, please dont let our community down.
EvilSpork Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.02 23:46:00 - [145] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium stuff lol im not even involved in FW and i think that is a complete cop out answer. FW had soooo many things promised and exactly zero of them have been implemented. fw is exactly was it was the day you released it. be a good dev and get some played interaction and input. this "habe faith" crap is unacceptable. the player base wants more dev interaction in ALL aspects of the game. throw us a bone...
Shun Makoto Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.06.03 01:18:00 - [146] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium I hope you don't mind the interruption, spotted odd noises filtering through the door so I couldn't help but enter. Even if we have been quite silent on this, we haven't abandoned Factional Warfare as we are aware of the issues mentioned in this thread and others. For having discussions about it lately, we do have plans on improving it and it is in our to-do list. Of course you will understand that we cannot give any specific detail at the time being since we cannot promise anything at this point, but keep hope, do not lose faith for there is light at the end of the tunnel. We thank you very much for posting.
Atraxerxes Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.06.03 01:42:00 - [147] CCP Ytterbium I can't thank you enough for just sticking your head in the utility closet known as Factional War. The mere fact that you even posted a response acknowledging that anybody in CCP reads our thoughts, is honestly more than we ever thought we'd get. That being said, from talking with dozens of current & former FW pilots, the Dev team associated with FW needs to know that while I doubt it will ever lose all the pilots involved in FW. The fervor and excitement they once had for it will most likely never be the same and it may need more than a shinny coat of pain. Basically what I'm saying is, I know you guys are professional game developers, but please ask yourselves this question before you do anything to FW; Is this change(s) going to make people excited about Factional War again? If the answer is no or you are unsure, I'd suggest just saving the man power to work on something cooler and leave FW alone to be what it has become to most of the militia members. Which is nothing more than a free war dec on a couple of thousand pilots. As for myself and most of my corpmates, not sure how long we will hold out for change, but if & when it happens I'll be sure to get back in to ruin my Gallente standings once again if you make it exciting. Atraxerxes EVE's #1 (full length) podcast "Fly Reckless" Fly Reckless Voted "Best New Comer" EON Magazine 2009. Listen to it today
Trebor DeCaldar	Posted - 2009.06.03 15:32:00 - [148] You mean someone from CCP actually acknowledges that FW exists?!?!?! Now if two of them get together, we might can get something done around here
Serapo Petrotestes Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.06.03 16:35:00 - [149] I can't help but feel that CCP are a bit in a conundrum here with FW. As has been stated by many ideas and suggestions, making FW much better doesn't really require too much effort. The problem is, if they make FW too good, they will have thousands of players from 0.0 and empire heading for FW and clogging up those low sec systems. Which I think is not what they want FW to effect. After all, experienced players should carve their lives in 0.0 and FW should be a casual introduction to pvp for newbs, which kind of won't happen if FW actually is great fun for experienced PvPers.
Parmenides Elea Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.06.03 16:51:00 - [150] Originally by: Serapo Petrotestes After all, experienced players should carve their lives in 0.0 and FW should be a casual introduction to pvp for newbs, which kind of won't happen if FW actually is great fun for experienced PvPers. Says you! I've done 0.0 and it sucks. The politicing, the mind numbing pos warfare, the blob horror. FW offers a fantastic place for small gang pewpew that can be found nowhere else in the eve universe.
Trebor DeCaldar	Posted - 2009.06.03 17:57:00 - [151] Originally by: Parmenides Elea Originally by: Serapo Petrotestes After all, experienced players should carve their lives in 0.0 and FW should be a casual introduction to pvp for newbs, which kind of won't happen if FW actually is great fun for experienced PvPers. Says you! I've done 0.0 and it sucks. The politicing, the mind numbing pos warfare, the blob horror. FW offers a fantastic place for small gang pewpew that can be found nowhere else in the eve universe. /This\ Not all of us are thrilled with Cap Fleet Blobbing and POS-Pong Some of us prefer the T1 frig battles that FW gives
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.06.03 18:24:00 - [152] Originally by: EvilSpork Edited by: EvilSpork on 03/06/2009 01:33:00 Originally by: CCP Ytterbium stuff lol im not even involved in FW and i think that is a complete cop out answer. FW had soooo many things promised and exactly zero of them have been implemented. fw is exactly was it was the day you released it. be a good dev and get some played interaction and input. this "have faith" crap is unacceptable. the player base wants more dev interaction in ALL aspects of the game. throw us a bone... Actually, almost everything that was promised was delivered. Besides, most dev members are actually working, not surfing the forums replying to threads.
Serapo Petrotestes Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.06.03 18:38:00 - [153] Originally by: Trebor DeCaldar Originally by: Parmenides Elea Says you! I've done 0.0 and it sucks. The politicing, the mind numbing pos warfare, the blob horror. FW offers a fantastic place for small gang pewpew that can be found nowhere else in the eve universe. /This\ Not all of us are thrilled with Cap Fleet Blobbing and POS-Pong Some of us prefer the T1 frig battles that FW gives Oh, I agree with you guys. That is exactly the point. I was just offering the perspective that CCP has been voicing, according to some reports. CCP will have a big problem if they make FW much more fun and compelling than 0.0. That is my point. They would need to take out the tedium of POS warfare and stuff before they move to improve FW significantly. Else they would end up with way too crowded low sec FW systems and way to many unpopulated 0.0 systems.
Hurtado Soneka Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.06.03 18:44:00 - [154] vast 0.0 systems rarely get seen, making FW more enjoyable will benefit the people that play FW, not make null sec anymore of a ghost town.
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.06.03 23:27:00 - [155] CCP can do what ever wants with 0.0 (dev holiday center, or maybe goon empire). Anyway since several years i played this game i hade never so much fun as in factional warfare. Actualy its a hidden dream of each pvper to have plenty of targets and not to make fuss around pos spams, pos defense and pos refueling. In this way factional warfare is much better. Sure it lacks high end ore and npc battleship bounties but money can be made in empire too. And people have 0 responsibilities which brings more people inside. Personaly i think ccp opened pandoras box as factional warfare is more pro pvp then 0.0 and only people who will be interested to play for their own space will leave to 0.0. The rest who enjoys good low sec pvp without sentry fire will stay in factional warfare.
Steve Floros	Posted - 2009.06.08 14:23:00 - [156] Is CCP even read Forums? I think they don't. Are they going to announce something about the Caldari-Gallente war result? Just so we know if we gonna continue fighting or not. There is really no point fighting on, if nothing ever changes...
Val Erian Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia	Posted - 2009.06.08 23:27:00 - [157] Quote: Are they going to announce something about the Caldari-Gallente war result? Just so we know if we gonna continue fighting or not. There is really no point fighting on, if nothing ever changes... Stave....hate to break it to you but the war doesnt end :) There are no victory conditions to be met. Its supposed to be an endless war dec.
Oftherocks Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.06.09 01:33:00 - [158] Originally by: Steve Floros Is CCP even read Forums? I think they don't. Are they going to announce something about the Caldari-Gallente war result? Just so we know if we gonna continue fighting or not. There is really no point fighting on, if nothing ever changes... http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3113&tid=7 Originally by: Sheriff Jones No, i play hello kitty online and just paid for 5 years to come here and make comments about stuff i know nothing about and Wranglers pants.
T 2 Minmatar Tribal Core	Posted - 2009.06.09 10:46:00 - [159] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Even if we have been quite silent on this, we haven't abandoned Factional Warfare as we are aware of the issues mentioned in this thread and others. For having discussions about it lately, we do have plans on improving it and it is in our to-do list. ♪♫♫♪ \o_ ♫♪♪♫ _o/ ♪♫♫♫ _o_ ♪♪♫ \o/ ♪♫♪♪♫ I'm so looking forward into what you guys are cooking up. Hopefully something sooner than later :-) Best Regards and thanks for letting us know you have not forgotten FW, T 2 ----------- Member of Tribal Core - fighting for Minmatar Militia. Death to Amarr; long live the Minmatar Nation.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.06.09 12:56:00 - [160] Originally by: Hurtado Soneka vast 0.0 systems rarely get seen, making FW more enjoyable will benefit the people that play FW, not make null sec anymore of a ghost town. Good point, but I know a few 0.0 players who have moved to FW. Perhaps it is time to take FW beyond it's existing borders and let it slip into 0.0. There could be a rush to colonise the 0.0 systems to fuel the war, turning them from nullsec to lowsec, thus expanding the FW area. Surely it is CCPs task to supply us with what we want, not to force us down a specific path. That is what has made this game so good. The ability to choose. If they worked on one side and not the other, then either side would start bleeding players into the other, and the neglected one would suffer, which would be to the detriment of the remaining players. They should be working on both sides simultaneously, not just the one. It might take longer, but at least it will be more consistent.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.06.09 13:03:00 - [161] Originally by: Oftherocks Originally by: Steve Floros Is CCP even read Forums? I think they don't. Are they going to announce something about the Caldari-Gallente war result? Just so we know if we gonna continue fighting or not. There is really no point fighting on, if nothing ever changes... This If that's all the reward you get for all the hours of revolving around a small circle you did, it must seem like a brutal betrayal. However, it's nice to see that some of the regular Caldari posters are starting to get it. This war will never end. If it did, there would be no-one to shoot anymore. Well, not without having to get involved in nullsec politics.
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2009.06.09 16:41:00 - [162] Originally by: Turelus On working for new features etc though, I do feel all plex's should have EWAR removed or balanced! yeah it's awesome that each side has it's own racial EWAR in them but it is bloody unbalanced when you think about it. Damping vs ECM? It would actually be balanced if rats didn't cheat. Your sensor strength is not taken into account wrt rats jam probabilities (nor do rats use any kind of racial ecm). So there is no way to mitigate the jamming by fitting ECCM. On the other hand fitting sensor boosters works against the dampening of rats. Fix this imbalance first and see (it would make ratting Guristas much less of a pain too). The day Caldari Navy rats get ECM obeying the game mechanics players are subject too is the day people start fitting ECCM and kicking their butts.
Syringe Oedipus Complex	Posted - 2009.06.09 17:17:00 - [163] Originally by: EvilSpork Edited by: EvilSpork on 03/06/2009 01:33:00 Originally by: CCP Ytterbium stuff lol im not even involved in FW and i think that is a complete cop out answer. FW had soooo many things promised and exactly zero of them have been implemented. fw is exactly was it was the day you released it. be a good dev and get some played interaction and input. this "have faith" crap is unacceptable. the player base wants more dev interaction in ALL aspects of the game. throw us a bone... Something tells me you'll GTFOver it. Take a laxative, the devs do their best with what they have. When they get too involved in the player base, people whine about corruption or broken promises or favoritism or any such crap. It's a double edged sword.
Steve Floros	Posted - 2009.06.09 18:57:00 - [164] If its true and its a never-ending war, with no point, no benefits or no rewards, at least CCP should say so. Then everyone decides if he stays or moves on. CCP must inform us. We are CUSTOMERS, not sheep. (Ofcourse I already know we r getting no answer from them )
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn	Posted - 2009.06.10 08:54:00 - [165] I guess the future of FW depends on how CCP approaches the current situation. Approach A: "There are only X pilots enrolled out of Y total characters, it's not worth assigning programmer hours to such a minority" Approach B: "There are only X pilots enrolled out of Y total characters, we definitely need to do something so it draws in more people." I read more of Approach A into Ytter's post - at least I understand it as "Yes, we know there is an issue and one day we'll think about doing something about it". shrugs For now everyone has to accept it as it is, or leave FW. Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn"
Kazzzi	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:58:00 - [166] Edited by: Kazzzi on 11/06/2009 17:59:07 Have the devs told the Navy NPCs about the web nerf yet?
Richard Third Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.06.12 03:37:00 - [167] Huh I think the more personnel CCP hires the less work gets done. Lots of organizations lose focus and get stuck. Eve stuck. -- You can't do that with a Planet.
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2009.06.12 17:44:00 - [168] Quote: Of course you will understand that we cannot give any specific detail at the time being since we cannot promise anything at this point, but keep hope, do not lose faith for there is light at the end of the tunnel. Its a long way, till CCP will understand the meaning of transparency. But trust me - its worth the effort.
Stokar Gallente Caprica Corp	Posted - 2009.08.31 01:38:00 - [169] My understanding of a given war declaration was to engage any declared member of my specific war target (in this case, a corp) without Concord intervention, or station and jump gate guns. I engaged a hostile pilot from the very corp I war decc'ed, and the station and gate guns began firing on ME. Unless the rules have changed, I'd like to know why Those guns shot at me. Stokar-
Jonna Red	Posted - 2009.08.31 07:31:00 - [170] Originally by: Stokar My understanding of a given war declaration was to engage any declared member of my specific war target (in this case, a corp) without Concord intervention, or station and jump gate guns. I engaged a hostile pilot from the very corp I war decc'ed, and the station and gate guns began firing on ME. Unless the rules have changed, I'd like to know why Those guns shot at me. Stokar- Did you your corp just enter FW? I think there was some stuff about that you need to wait till next dt till you can freely shoot them. Some kind of bug, not sure.
MaxxOmega Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2009.09.02 18:30:00 - [171] Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre It's often said that the Dev's see 0.0 as being the "Endgame" of EVE. If that's truely the case then why are so many guys leaving 0.0 to get involved in FW?. Funny you should mention that. I just left my corp in 0.0 to come and try some FW for a change of pace... The huge fleet ops were great but I got fed up with the drama and alliance bull****.
Saint VII Minmatar Murientor Tribe	Posted - 2009.09.02 19:12:00 - [172] I posted some critique and suggestions here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1171271 No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting.
Azirapheal Amarr Armored Core Inc. The Council.	Posted - 2009.09.03 11:26:00 - [173] i read absolutely none of your post im afraid. i saw this big white bolded bit at the bottom saying you would report anyone that didnt agree with your own viewpoint. report me if you wish Originally by: CCP Zymurgist SoonÖ
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.09.03 12:33:00 - [174] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/09/2009 12:33:54 FW needs a "outlaw militia" which is at war with all the other militia corps tbh ;) Would be fun to be able to fight FW guys using small ships and such on gates. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Unfamed II Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.09.03 12:49:00 - [175] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/09/2009 12:33:54 FW needs a "outlaw militia" which is at war with all the other militia corps tbh ;) Would be fun to be able to fight FW guys using small ships and such on gates. Oh god this please! Originally by: Sandslinger of CA So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
Greg6	Posted - 2009.09.03 13:03:00 - [176] Eh. If BIDY, or any other pies, want to fight FW members in small stuff all the pies have to do is take said small ships and go to a planet or belt. Giving them a kind of "add on," status in FW won't make most FW members forget the tendency of BIDY to hot drop capital ships and thus won't make most FW members any more willing to engage BIDY than they are now. But guys, anytime you want to fight in small stuff come to Nenn. Q-cats will likely even be up for an arranged fight of agreed upon numbers if you ask and we're on line. But make sure you sing out and make any such agreement clear. We always follow our word in such things, or there is hell to pay internally, but in the absence of such an agreement we're as happy as the next guys to gank the hell out of a target. :)
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.09.03 14:24:00 - [177] Originally by: Greg6 Eh. If BIDY, or any other pies, want to fight FW members in small stuff all the pies have to do is take said small ships and go to a planet or belt. So much more fun when it's not consensual on both sides tbh ;) It'd make small ship roaming rather interesting. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.09.03 14:33:00 - [178] Originally by: Azirapheal i read absolutely none of your post im afraid. i saw this big white bolded bit at the bottom saying you would report anyone that didnt agree with your own viewpoint. report me if you wish Thanks for your intelligent contribution to this thread. Who necro'd this topic btw??? And, has the new LP points and LP store items made FW any better??? Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success
Sebastien LaForge Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.09.03 14:50:00 - [179] Still waiting for kill LP to be fixed so everyone gets some LP when they kill their faction rival. So far it seems you only get LP if you get the killmail, and nobody else gets any.
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.09.03 15:55:00 - [180] Originally by: Cpt Branko FW needs a "outlaw militia" which is at war with all the other militia corps tbh ;) Would be fun to be able to fight FW guys using small ships and such on gates. If you want to fight FW guys in small ships, then join an opposing FW. :) Or if you want the freedom to attack everyone, stay a pirate. The downside is you can't really use your small ships on the gate. You can't really have everything, EVE has tradeoffs. Not too mention, such a militia would immediately become the most popular by far and everyone would join that. Then...no targets :(

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