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Looks like we're winning the war: Highsec mining drops by HALF!

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Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3937	Posted - 2012.05.24 14:38:00 - [271] - Quote Why, in Deklein of course. Where else would they mine if not their own space? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
B3AST MODE B3AST Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 20	Posted - 2012.05.24 14:47:00 - [272] - Quote Goon space is pretty comfy...I find most of my ships cheaper than Jita prices! LOL SRRY BOUT UR HISEC MINING.
Andre Jean Sarpantis University of Caille Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2012.05.24 14:50:00 - [273] - Quote James 315 wrote: John Caligan wrote: I don't get it: Is your endgame to get rid of bots, or just to stop all hisec mining forever? The latter. Quote: If it's the latter, than YOU ARE A F**** IDIOT. Yes, you WILL stop hisec mining. But you then forget that with no hisec miners, volumes of the lower-level ores will drastically decrease, causing HUGE price spikes. Even if that's true, so what? Quote:** Yes, the current stockpiles will last a long time, and YES there will still be SOME income, but it will all be in losec, where everything will have turned into mass resources wars. Picture what would happen if the real world suddenly ran out of fossil fuels and the only way left to power things were national reserves. Extermination of hisec mining would be that ONE HUNDREDFOLD. None of that sounds like a bad thing for EVE, in fact you paint a rather positive picture... YOU Mister, doesn't seem to have any sligthes clue about the Eve economy truely works if you favour the totally remove of Hisec mining you only will get alot negative results like as CCP will loose lots of active subscribers, also loose income, so will go down the actual Online numbers also it will raise the prices into Astronomical highs you won't even thing of. So Mister 'ThenthousandI'mSoCleverBrain' What will this lead to? I'm telling you.....First less peoples around to play with, second lesser updates and a more stagnant game without expansions within an acceptable timeframe so in this case again more stagnating subscribers. I'm not sure out of what freaking hole you crawled out but with your assumptions you're seemingly want to see Eve dieying rather then prospering. Following current happenings....if CCP doesn't steps in and bangs a shoe on the table to get things fixed E.g. Rebalancing Ships especially Miner and industrial ships in a way they'll get a bit higher survive chance against halfhearthed led Ganks i'm foreseeing a more stagnant decrease of player counts within the next half up to one year in a way CCP really will get in some serious payement troubles. sincerly Andre Jean Sarpantis ( Roleplayed nepew from the Serpentis Founder )
URDEAD2ME Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities 21	Posted - 2012.05.24 15:01:00 - [274] - Quote ah the OP is the guy who spends 3 hours bumping one hulk around for a mill isk and calls him self the owner of some npc system ... and then thinks hes best thing since hulkageddon lol
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 553	Posted - 2012.05.24 15:14:00 - [275] - Quote Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote: YOU Mister, doesn't seem to have any sligthes clue about the Eve economy truely works if you favour the totally remove of Hisec mining you only will get alot negative results like as CCP will loose lots of active subscribers, also loose income, so will go down the actual Online numbers also it will raise the prices into Astronomical highs you won't even thing of. So Mister 'ThenthousandI'mSoCleverBrain' What will this lead to? I'm telling you.....First less peoples around to play with, second lesser updates and a more stagnant game without expansions within an acceptable timeframe so in this case again more stagnating subscribers. I'm not sure out of what freaking hole you crawled out but with your assumptions you're seemingly want to see Eve dieying rather then prospering. Following current happenings....if CCP doesn't steps in and bangs a shoe on the table to get things fixed E.g. Rebalancing Ships especially Miner and industrial ships in a way they'll get a bit higher survive chance against halfhearthed led Ganks i'm foreseeing a more stagnant decrease of player counts within the next half up to one year in a way CCP really will get in some serious payement troubles. sincerly Andre Jean Sarpantis ( Roleplayed nepew from the Serpentis Founder ) Contrary to your assumptions, minerals have not always gushed forth with the intensity of water coming through a ruptured dam. The economy had to be built up, in order for it to be coming down. Are minerals getting more expensive? Sure. Is it necessarily a bad thing? No. Stuff will still be built, and stuff will still be destroyed. There will always be miners. We are simply culling those that are weak and ignorant. And quite frankly, I prefer it this way. When things are expensive, pvp feels less like an inconsequential deathmatch.
Andre Jean Sarpantis University of Caille Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2012.05.24 15:21:00 - [276] - Quote Destiny Corrupted wrote: Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote: Contrary to your assumptions, minerals have not always gushed forth with the intensity of water coming through a ruptured dam. The economy had to be built up, in order for it to be coming down. Are minerals getting more expensive? Sure. Is it necessarily a bad thing? No. Stuff will still be built, and stuff will still be destroyed. There will always be miners. We are simply culling those that are weak and ignorant. And quite frankly, I prefer it this way. When things are expensive, pvp feels less like an inconsequential deathmatch. YOu're such a hardcore PvPer huh? So you're for sure will enjoy the future hardcore Prices as maybe will like as 10 -20 Millions for a T1 frig, 50 -90 Millions for a t1 Cruiser.....150--200 Millions for a simple T1 BC and maybe 350 - 500+ Millions for a simple t1 BS....and those are only the prices will be for non factional ships incoming perhaps. So Hopefully you SO proud Hardcore Elite PvPers will enjoy your Selfcreated Hardcore ELite Prices Sincerly Andre Jean Sarpantis (Roleplayed Nepew from the Serpentis founder)
Veflingen Battle Force Industries Tactical Invader Syndicate 0	Posted - 2012.05.24 15:44:00 - [277] - Quote James 315 wrote: rant James, as much as I respect that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I am amazed that you took the time to write a manifesto yet did not cite ANY source as evidence in favor of your position. No charts. No official documents. No quotes from other persons of note. Now, as you might have guessed I am a carebear yet I have no desire to rid highsec of PvP. If this claim of mine is true that alone invalidates your entire manifesto. My personal problem with mining in lowsec is that my ship costs around 500mill on todays market (thank you for that, btw), and that it can be taken out so easily that the risk is just not worth it. Still for what it is worth I applaud your effort to provide an argument to justify ganking miners. I do not agree.
Chris Cooley Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2012.05.24 15:54:00 - [278] - Quote A lot of Eves fame in the real word community comes from its player driven economy/market. Its been mentioned in the Wall street Journal and many other mainstream media sources. Anyone that wants to make that disappear has their head up their assault frig.
Immogen Telvani Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2012.05.24 16:11:00 - [279] - Quote Tobiaz wrote: Malcanis wrote: No, what we'll get is more people mining in 0.0 In fact it's happening already. Even goons are mining now, I know for a fact. So pack up your Hulk, start looking for a 0.0 corp and prepare to make more ISK than you've seen before. Goons mining? Please someone post a screenshot, that must be so emberrassing They have much experience of 'shooting' things that don't fire back, it's a natural progression.
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 553	Posted - 2012.05.24 16:12:00 - [280] - Quote Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote: Contrary to your assumptions, minerals have not always gushed forth with the intensity of water coming through a ruptured dam. The economy had to be built up, in order for it to be coming down. Are minerals getting more expensive? Sure. Is it necessarily a bad thing? No. Stuff will still be built, and stuff will still be destroyed. There will always be miners. We are simply culling those that are weak and ignorant. And quite frankly, I prefer it this way. When things are expensive, pvp feels less like an inconsequential deathmatch. YOu're such a hardcore PvPer huh? So you're for sure will enjoy the future hardcore Prices as maybe will like as 10 -20 Millions for a T1 frig, 50 -90 Millions for a t1 Cruiser.....150--200 Millions for a simple T1 BC and maybe 350 - 500+ Millions for a simple t1 BS....and those are only the prices will be for non factional ships incoming perhaps. So Hopefully you SO proud Hardcore Elite PvPers will enjoy your Selfcreated Hardcore ELite Prices Sincerly Andre Jean Sarpantis (Roleplayed Nepew from the Serpentis founder) You have a lack of understanding of basic economics principles. People will exploit opportunities. If mining becomes competitive with other pve activities (it is starting to), then people will brave the increased risks to reap much higher rewards (they are starting to). If the prices you quoted above ever come to pass, it would mean that ISK has become very common, or that minerals have become extremely rare. Neither will happen if a few thousand high-sec miners quit playing, because their output simply isn't that significant. You are giving high-sec carebears more credit than they are due.
Asuri Kinnes Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 432	Posted - 2012.05.24 20:04:00 - [281] - Quote James 315 wrote: More Stuff Just wondered, did you miss Post 250 or are you just ignoring it so you don't have to answer to your unfounded conclusions/assumptions....? James 315 wrote: You also pay undue attention to the specific number of the (many thousands of) miners killed by Hulkageddon. *You completely failed to account for the much larger impact of miners who stopped mining because* of Hulkageddon, and who weren't in the belts to be shot at.** You know the old saying--if there are ten crows on a fence and you hit one by throwing a rock at it, how many are left? None, because the others flew away. To go with your "10 crows on a wire" analogy, that leaves 9 miners in station who will be back when it's "safer". I for one (as a former participant in Hulkageddon) don't think Hulkageddon can last all year... Or to put it bluntly, how long after hulkageddon ends before the miners are back? dolt. Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Antisocial Malkavian Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 104	Posted - 2012.05.24 20:09:00 - [282] - Quote Pak Narhoo wrote: Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Goons did say theyre here to destroy the game after all No, no, no, no. Get it right for once. They are here to destroy YOUR! game. Sigh.... Yes its funny how they walked that statement back... Its called a lie. look it up Or do actions speak less loudly than words to only you? James 315 wrote: John Caligan wrote: I don't get it: Is your endgame to get rid of bots, or just to stop all hisec mining forever? The latter. Quote: If it's the latter, than YOU ARE A F****** IDIOT. Yes, you WILL stop hisec mining. But you then forget that with no hisec miners, volumes of the lower-level ores will drastically decrease, causing HUGE price spikes. Even if that's true, so what? Pretty much SHOWS the lie in that walkback. He doesnt want to kill bots, he wants all highsec mining destroyed. Yeah THAT wont affect the game AT ALL http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2317/JKES0811.17.1 Bees That Drink Human Tears -- ITS SCIENCE!!!
Antisocial Malkavian Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 104	Posted - 2012.05.24 20:14:00 - [283] - Quote Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote: Contrary to your assumptions, minerals have not always gushed forth with the intensity of water coming through a ruptured dam. The economy had to be built up, in order for it to be coming down. Are minerals getting more expensive? Sure. Is it necessarily a bad thing? No. Stuff will still be built, and stuff will still be destroyed. There will always be miners. We are simply culling those that are weak and ignorant. And quite frankly, I prefer it this way. When things are expensive, pvp feels less like an inconsequential deathmatch. YOu're such a hardcore PvPer huh? 540 kills says yes especially vs your 0 and 2 losses http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2317/JKES0811.17.1 Bees That Drink Human Tears -- ITS SCIENCE!!!
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 862	Posted - 2012.05.24 20:15:00 - [284] - Quote Malcanis wrote: No, what we'll get is more people mining in 0.0 In fact it's happening already. Even goons are mining now, I know for a fact. So pack up your Hulk, start looking for a 0.0 corp and prepare to make more ISK than you've seen before. So it's true. "EvE is a sandbox" they preach. but then they force people to play their way or the highway. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Meryl SinGarda Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team 511	Posted - 2012.05.24 20:15:00 - [285] - Quote I'm just going to pretend I read everything you've written and say that you're overlooking the fact that Diablo 3 was released last week. Edit: Nevermind, this is a necroed thread. CEO of B.U.T.T. -á(recruitment is open) Twitter: @MerylSinGarda http://EVEportraits.com
James 315 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1741	Posted - 2012.05.24 20:44:00 - [286] - Quote Asuri Kinnes wrote: Just wondered, did you miss Post 250 or are you just ignoring it so you don't have to answer to your unfounded conclusions/assumptions....? The gist of your post is that you're questioning whether CCP has made an announcement that it didn't do any mass bot-bannings during the intervening week before the comparison weeks. Occasionally CCP will make an announcement that it's performed a mass bot-banning, but I can't think of any occasion when it announced "we didn't do a mass bot-banning this week." So it's a silly question from that perspective. Instead, you would be looking for evidence that CCP did perform a mass ban during that week, correct? The burden of proof is squarely on you to support your alternate explanation for the near 50% decline in highsec mining that coincided with Hulkageddon. Here's some suggestions for you as you go about trying to prove that there was a mass bot-banning during that week: 1. Did CCP announce a mass bot-banning? 2. Did the botter/uncensored forums light up with activity complaining about bans? 3. Was there any anecdotal evidence indicating bot banning? The answer to all three of these, so far, is a resounding "no." The only thing that happened during the relevant period was Burn Jita and Hulkageddon. Unless you're being willfully ignorant or dishonest, the explanation for the near 50% decline in highsec mining is painfully obvious. I trust that we are on the same page now? Quote: To go with your "10 crows on a wire" analogy, that leaves 9 miners in station who will be back when it's "safer". I for one (as a former participant in Hulkageddon) don't think Hulkageddon can last all year...Or to put it bluntly, how long after hulkageddon ends before the miners are back? This, too, was addressed in the OP, which I invite you to read. Quote: dolt. Next time please save your gratuitous insults for after you have finished reading/comprehending the OP. Otherwise it looks like instead of asking honest questions, you're just trolling on behalf of carebears and MD pseudointellectuals. Unless of course you were just signing your post that way.
James 315 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1741	Posted - 2012.05.24 20:46:00 - [287] - Quote Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Pretty much SHOWS the lie in that walkback. He doesnt want to kill bots, he wants all highsec mining destroyed. Yeah THAT wont affect the game AT ALL Is this news? I have always said that I want all highsec mining destroyed. And I never denied that the game would be affected by said destruction; quite the opposite. But I believe the effects will be universally positive.
Antisocial Malkavian Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 106	Posted - 2012.05.24 20:46:00 - [288] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Malcanis wrote: No, what we'll get is more people mining in 0.0 In fact it's happening already. Even goons are mining now, I know for a fact. So pack up your Hulk, start looking for a 0.0 corp and prepare to make more ISK than you've seen before. So it's true. "EvE is a sandbox" they preach. but then they force people to play their way or the highway. Its not a sandbox cause there are right ways to play it and wrong ones. And NPC seeds Buy Orders etc CCP should really remove that from the description. Its too misleading for ppl. James 315 wrote: Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Pretty much SHOWS the lie in that walkback. He doesnt want to kill bots, he wants all highsec mining destroyed. Yeah THAT wont affect the game AT ALL Is this news? I have always said that I want all highsec mining destroyed. And I never denied that the game would be affected by said destruction; quite the opposite. But I believe the effects will be universally positive. No.. the lie was Goons saying they wanna destroy your game not THE game. At least you all are admitting it now. http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2317/JKES0811.17.1 Bees That Drink Human Tears -- ITS SCIENCE!!!
Ziranda Hakuli Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens 58	Posted - 2012.05.24 20:55:00 - [289] - Quote Blowing up a defensless exhumer is NOT PVP!!!!
Andemnon Kohort Protagonists Of Doom 18	Posted - 2012.05.24 20:59:00 - [290] - Quote Ziranda Hakuli wrote: Blowing up a defensless exhumer is NOT PVP!!!! PVP doesnt have to be voluntary, or fair..
I Accidentally YourShip eHarmony Inc. Brushie Brushie Brushie 173	Posted - 2012.05.24 21:37:00 - [291] - Quote Ziranda Hakuli wrote: Blowing up a defensless exhumer is NOT PVP!!!! It is if it has a player pilot.
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 3924	Posted - 2012.05.24 21:37:00 - [292] - Quote technically miners are not pilots. Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
Malphilos State War Academy Caldari State 40	Posted - 2012.05.24 21:49:00 - [293] - Quote James 315 wrote: [... the near 50% decline in highsec mining that coincided with Hulkageddon. Wasn't it just a decrease in total m3 for one week compared to one other week? I only saw one tweet, but that hardly coincides with Hulkageddon (still ongoing?) or proves a decline in mining.
Fabulousli Obvious State War Academy Caldari State 282	Posted - 2012.05.24 21:59:00 - [294] - Quote Nova Fox wrote: technically miners are not pilots. I'm dissapointed in you ofa ll people for once. That's the silliest statement I've read all day. I think that God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability. In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900
Ditra Vorthran State War Academy Caldari State 14	Posted - 2012.05.24 21:59:00 - [295] - Quote I'll bet that the Inferno patch with the Inventory rework did more damage to Bots than CCP Screegs and his team did. :P
Fabulousli Obvious State War Academy Caldari State 284	Posted - 2012.05.24 22:16:00 - [296] - Quote Ditra Vorthran wrote: I'll bet that the Inferno patch with the Inventory rework did more damage to Bots than CCP Screegs and his team did. :P And damage to regular players abilities as well. NOT a solution here at all. I think that God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability. In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900
Ditra Vorthran State War Academy Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.05.24 22:41:00 - [297] - Quote Fabulousli Obvious wrote: Ditra Vorthran wrote: I'll bet that the Inferno patch with the Inventory rework did more damage to Bots than CCP Screegs and his team did. :P And damage to regular players abilities as well. NOT a solution here at all. Take it easy man. Why so serious? I'd suggest a Jita riot except I can't find my ammo... Just give me a minute. It's around here somewhere... ... ***** Seriously though, I like it. If nothing else it's a good start to something that can be improved upon.
Asuri Kinnes Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 432	Posted - 2012.05.24 22:42:00 - [298] - Quote Your making this easier than ganking a botting hulk, of which I've killed (for sure, pods kept warping back to the belt...) four. YOU are the OP, YOU made the assertions, assumptions and presented your conclusions. The burden of proof is on YOU. You have no proof, because you had no facts. I did not start the thread - burden of proof is not on me and I called your conclusions into doubt, because your proofs were vaporware... James 315 wrote: The burden of proof is squarely on you to support your alternate explanation for the near 50% decline in highsec mining that coincided with Hulkageddon. From the OP wrote: I know there are some skeptics who will grasp to the straws of any alternate explanation, *so I'll provide a preemptive debunking service here.* The mining of ore in highsec did not decline during the measured period due to a drop in botting. Over the relevant period, there was no mass-banning of bots by CCP. Quite the opposite, in fact. My own observations, corroborated by the dedicated bot-watchers in Crime & Punishment, have actually seen a proportionate increase in botting of late; a new network of easily-identified botters is crawling over the belts in highsec as we speak. A) That is a report of new ICE mining bots... B) The report is limited to two or three factual (as much as anything not from CCP) posts, and the rest discussing it or trolling it - so your conclusion that "the mining of ore in hi-sec did NOT decline do to a drop in botting" is totally, completely made up. C) Your "Dedicated Bot Watchers" don't seem to be talking about the same subject you were... D) You also make the declarative statement that "there was no mass-banning of bots by CCP - again, burden of proof is on you to back up your assertion with fact. The fact is, you can't. E) you then try to conflate Ice mining bots, with Ore mining bots (which I will readily agree - not much difference) but again, you have zero proof... From the OP wrote: Thus, the decrease in mining among humans in highsec is greater than 45.53%. We don't have official statistics on what percentage of the total mining in highsec is done by bots, but by all accounts it's a hefty amount. Therefore, this is the bottom line: The majority of human highsec miners have quit mining. This assumption is totally bereft of any supporting proof, it is just your "Fox News" spin on something you have no concrete proof of... Welcome to modern journalism... James 315 wrote: Next time please save your gratuitous insults for after you have finished reading/comprehending the OP. Otherwise it looks like instead of asking honest questions, you're just trolling on behalf of carebears and MD pseudointellectuals. Unless of course you were just signing your post that way. I was asking honest questions. I am still asking honest questions (i.e. prove your assertions) and I still think your a dolt... p.s. - After four years in game, I really don't give a dam about the carebears (other than as paying subscribers for CCP or as targets for me) or MD discussions. I stay out of Market Discus because I know I don't know enough about the topics at hand to contribute anything worthwhile. I'm here, on the other hand, to call out your BS... Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Sam Flynn The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.05.24 23:19:00 - [299] - Quote I for one protest the removal of highsec mining ops. THINK OF OTHER PLAYERS!!!! removing highsec mining removes like what 60% to 70% of the industry? that would have major consequences on ship and module construction, thus bloated costs. Lets not make this harder for eve players. This sort thing will be the game's TRUE undoing, a mass exodus of players unsubscribing! Lowsec and nullsec is dangerous enough to risk actually going there, I lost like 60 mill isk on this toon just entering nullsec!!! lets not give lowsec and nullsec trolls an edge, instead lets keep the mining the way it is foir the newbie players and for CCP's sake. After all, EVE is CCP's most played MMO, and the scenario I and several players are just trying to explain would mean the end of CCP AND EVE!!!
James 315 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1741	Posted - 2012.05.24 23:23:00 - [300] - Quote Quote: Your making this easier than ganking a botting hulk, of which I've killed (for sure, pods kept warping back to the belt...) four. YOU are the OP, YOU made the assertions, assumptions and presented your conclusions. The burden of proof is on YOU. You have no proof, because you had no facts. I did not start the thread - burden of proof is not on me and I called your conclusions into doubt, because your proofs were vaporware... Nice try. Highsec mining declined by nearly 50% after Hulkageddon began. You are claiming that the massive drop in highsec mining was a result of a massive bot-ban during the week before Hulkageddon. The burden of proof to establish this phantom bot-banning is, as I said, on you. So far, you have provided a lot of whining, but no evidence whatsoever. You have failed to even begin to meet your burden of proof. If you are not claiming that the massive drop in highsec mining after Hulkageddon began was due to bot-banning, then your entire series of posts is moot. In which case I invite you to contribute something meaningful to the thread. Quote: A) That is a report of new ICE mining bots... B) The report is limited to two or three factual (as much as anything not from CCP) posts, and the rest discussing it or trolling it - so your conclusion that "the mining of ore in hi-sec did NOT decline do to a drop in botting" is totally, completely made up. C) Your "Dedicated Bot Watchers" don't seem to be talking about the same subject you were... D) You also make the declarative statement that "there was no mass-banning of bots by CCP - again, burden of proof is on you to back up your assertion with fact. The fact is, you can't. E) you then try to conflate Ice mining bots, with Ore mining bots (which I will readily agree - not much difference) but again, you have zero proof... Once again, you have entirely misinterpreted the situation. Since CCP does not announce "we did not perform a massive bot ban this week," the question of whether a bot ban occurred must be presented in an alternate fashion, otherwise you are asking me to prove a negative--even though the burden of proof rests on your shoulders. Once again, here's how you can provide evidence to support your bot-banning theory: 1. An announcement by CCP that they performed a mass bot-ban during the week in question. 2. Evidence from botting/uncensored forums that people lost their bots. 3. Anecdotal evidence of bot-banning. Note that I'm being generous by allowing you to include #3. But you haven't even supplied anything from that category. So I'll challenge you a second time: Provide some proof that a mass bot ban occurred during the week in question, or concede to common sense. As for my common-sense position, it's informed by the absence of any evidence of bot-banning. Even on the permissive category #3, anecdotal evidence suggests a visible bot presence. (The fact that bots mine ice is, as you say, an irrelevant distinction.) Absent an official announcement from CCP that says "we didn't do a massive bot-ban that week," that's all the evidence you can get that a bot-ban didn't occur--it's a dog that didn't bark--no announcement, no evidence from botters, and no anecdotal bot banning evidence. To ask for more than that--particularly when there is no evidence to suggest otherwise--indicates you are either willfully ignorant, or you are being intellectually dishonest. Let me be clear. You can't hide behind statements like "the burden of proof is on you" when all possible proof has already been provided you, and you can't rebut it. Quote: This assumption is totally bereft of any supporting proof, it is just your "Fox News" spin on something you have no concrete proof of... Here, unfortunately, you show your inability to comprehend basic math. I'll make it simple for you: Total highsec mining dropped by 45.53%. I claimed that a majority (i.e. greater than 50%) of the human mining in highsec dropped. This assumes that the amount of highsec mining performed by bots is at least 9% (100 - [45.53 x 2] ). 9% is an extremely conservative estimate. If I had claimed 50% or 75% of mining was done by bots, you might have a point, since that would be speculative. But even if botters only account for 9% of mining, I am still correct in saying the majority of human mining stopped, since the drop was at least 50% of the remainder--unless your phantom bot ban happened to occur right before Hulkageddon. Of course, if you wish to make the absurd claim that botting is less than 9% of the total, you're free to provide some evidence, but I have a feeling you won't be able to deliver. Quote: I was asking honest questions. I am still asking honest questions (i.e. prove your assertions) No, actually you're not. You're doing either of the following: 1. Making a ridiculous request for an announcement from CCP that they didn't perform a mass bot-ban during the week in question. 2. Being dishonest in a misguided effort to cheerlead for carebears. Quote: and I still think your a dolt... Your opinions haven't proven to be of much worth so far.

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