| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 .. 14 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
wtbrandomnamegenerator
   |
Posted - 2009.06.17 21:14:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: CommmanderInChief
Originally by: Sky Marshal
Local is fine, period.
The sofware "help" tool is an another problem, if it exists... I wouldn't be surprised if a pro-local remover use bad methods to have what they want.
it did exist one i only know was bacon..but thats no longer available..but obviously ppl will have distributed it..
Obviously nothing like this is around now |
Christopher Multsanti
Euphoria Released
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 21:14:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Christopher Multsanti on 17/06/2009 21:15:46
Ok here is a proposal, obviously server lag issues need to be considered.
The overview is split into 2 parts:
The top part: Your normal overview, with tabs and settings etc.
The bottom part: A much smaller section which only shows ships not on the grid within, for example purposes only, 40AU. Think of the drone window, you have drones in space and drones in distant space, this is the same principal. The second part will show you approaching players, incoming fleets and when they arrive on grid they transfer to the original overview and the game continues as normal.
Now, I don't want to blow my own trumpet, but that sounds like a damn fine idea.  |
Descrambled
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 21:28:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Descrambled on 17/06/2009 21:30:50
Originally by: Christopher Multsanti
Edited by: Christopher Multsanti on 17/06/2009 21:15:46
Ok here is a proposal, obviously server lag issues need to be considered.
The overview is split into 2 parts:
The top part: Your normal overview, with tabs and settings etc.
The bottom part: A much smaller section which only shows ships not on the grid within, for example purposes only, 40AU. Think of the drone window, you have drones in space and drones in distant space, this is the same principal. The second part will show you approaching players, incoming fleets and when they arrive on grid they transfer to the original overview and the game continues as normal.
Now, I don't want to blow my own trumpet, but that sounds like a damn fine idea.
yeppers as long as Local the way we know it now is gone. wwill require true skill and effort to acquire intel. Not some system setup to appeal to carebear
To be clear- I like this idea 
|
Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 22:04:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 17/06/2009 22:04:31
Originally by: wtbrandomnamegenerator
Obviously nothing like this is around now
And ?
It would permit to reduce chinese farmers, maybe... The time that macros or "help software" would be adapted to use the Scan Window instead, and macro miners and haulers would still be here.
The thing I despite, is that you use this excuse to ask for a removal of Local... |
Lady Aja
Caldari
Eradication Project
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 22:08:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
It's amusing, every time I travel through the Drone Regions there's 2-3 ravens belonging to the same Solar Wing corp (of about 90 members) in every system. Soon as you enter local they safespot and cloak, no chance of catching em. 
If the hourly Jump Freighters going past their LXQ pipe are any indication, I'd say they were making a good 10bil/day from it 
warp to safe spot... and cloak.. they will either log or leave system. then there is the fact you can anchor large bubbles on the gate... then they cannot leave in a hurry. if at all.
|
Mama's Boy
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 22:15:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Escador
taken from feature side of a EVE "help" tool:
Current Version main features
- Monitors local channel for hostiles
- Warps to safe spot on ôHostile Spottedö and ôLow Tankö events
- Optional alarm sound on events
- Boosts shield or repaires armor when needed
- Cloaks in safe spot and remains cloaked until local is safe
- Turns on the active resistance modules when resumes hunting after cloak
++++++++++++
have a roam in deep 0.0 and you will find a endless amount of people using this or similar software....
please remove local 0.0 !!!!
escador
|
Lady Aja
Caldari
Eradication Project
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 22:16:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Jobby
Macroers pay subscriptions, too.
That's all CCP cares about.
no they dont so get a clue!!
|
CHAOS100
Widowmakers
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 22:24:00 -
[98]
This whole local issue in 0.0 is focused on only 1 aspect: ratters using local as a warning to run when someone comes in.
Yet you also used it to know that the ratter was there in the first place. PVPers use local as much, if not more, than ratters. Your average roaming gang uses it to get warning of impending doom as local fills with a 50 man gang to kill you. You use it to see where the ratting hotspots are in 0.0, and where the ratters are in the first place.
Is there a big gatecamp ahead in that 100au system with no planet near the destination gate? Well you could only know with local.
Without local you would be scanning down every system to try to find a ship, and when you find a ship on scan, chances are it is probably an empty ship at a pos. Later in the US timezone especially, 0.0 gets a bit sparse of targets. You could go 5 jumps or more without finding anything. It will get a wee bit tedious to scan down every single system to only find a target at a POS, or nothing at all. |
Turin
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 22:41:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Christopher Multsanti
Originally by: Jan Deltord
Lots of words.
Your missing the point. The auto scanner would not scan everything, you still have the directional scanner to narrow people down. The auto scanner would only show ships. It dosent have to load every object on every grid.
Originally by: Turin
The scanner would have to be FAR FAR more than 20 AU to even consider this.
TBH, if your only warning that someone is closing in on you, is a 20 AU warning on your scanner, then you are already dead. It takes a ship 2-3 seconds to go 20AU while in warp. Less for some.
At 20AU, you MIGHT have 2-3 seconds to react if you dont want to die. Most likely less. I would put my money on the ratter dieing EVERY time. I mighgt loose on a rare occasion, but over the long haul, I would win a far lot more than I lost.
Yes, but you still have to slow down and drop out of warp, which makes the 2-3 seconds around 10 seconds to drop out of warp and get a lock.
But you make a good point, the range of the scanner would have to be tested to see what ranges would make it viable.
That depends on the ship. Intercepters and Dicters come out of warp very fast, and can align to a target almost instantly. Furthermore, a Hulk for example, takes at least a good 15 seconds just to get up to speed and warp, and thats already after its aligned. A hulk would NEVER get away.
I still stand by mty statement. If I am ratting or mining ( especially mining ), and I see a ship on my scan only 20AU away, at that point, I am dead. They just havent popped my ship yet.
|
Admiral IceBlock
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 22:59:00 -
[100]
CCP should delay local appearance of people that jumps in by the time they are cloaked from jumping. So at most, 30 sec, if you break cloak you appear. |
Mifter Hogdido
Amarr
The 0ri
Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 23:03:00 -
[101]
Can we now have threads about this locked?  |
needrandomnamegenerator
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 23:04:00 -
[102]
Edited by: needrandomnamegenerator on 17/06/2009 23:05:33
Originally by: Sky Marshal
The thing I despite, is that you use this excuse to ask for a removal of Local...
Well, the thing I "despite" is that you use your own laziness as an excuse to allow the continuation of any game mechanic that obviously aids any macro program this obscene.
Could it be that you use such a program and don't want anything to disturb your safe haven of ratting?
Originally by: CHAOS100
Without local you would be scanning down every system to try to find a ship, and when you find a ship on scan, chances are it is probably an empty ship at a pos. Later in the US timezone especially, 0.0 gets a bit sparse of targets. You could go 5 jumps or more without finding anything. It will get a wee bit tedious to scan down every single system to only find a target at a POS, or nothing at all.
Big hint, this happens now, only, you get to see the ship on scanner for about 2 seconds, then its gone, and its nearly ALWAYS a raven.
5 jumps without a target is nothing, try 3 hours of "Raven....off scan <jump> Raven....off scan"
Originally by: Mifter Hogdido
Can we now have threads about this locked?
Yes, when they do something about the obvious problem that is only around because of local. |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 23:04:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Razin on 17/06/2009 23:05:11
Originally by: Christopher Multsanti
It would be interesting to see a link to the dev post saying that the auto updating scanner would heavily lag the server because we already have the overview which automatically updates when ships come on grid.
The auto updating scanner would simply be a second, longer range overview.
How much can that really crash the server?
Here's what was said by CCP Whisper:
Originally by: CCP Whisper
We will not do that without:
a) having a mechanic available that can be used to gather the same sort of intel local currently gives you.
b) ensuring that this mechanic does not totally wang the server when someone deploys more than one of these in a system.
To be honest, from my point of view server performance takes priority over shiny scanning feature. It does no-one any good for us to introduce something as a knee-jerk reaction and then watch the server buckle under the load of several thousand scanning buoys, IFF transponders, radar transmitters, AWACS drones or any of the hundred suggestions we have already gotten on how to implement this.
Claiming that this somehow means that any auto-scanning implementation would unacceptably lag the server is disingenuous.
I do agree with you that an auto-scanning feature on the directional scanner that only detects occupied ships over a range of 20-50 AU with some kind of IFF at closer ranges should be no problem for the server. |
Descrambled
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 23:15:00 -
[104]
Originally by: CHAOS100
This whole local issue in 0.0 is focused on only 1 aspect: ratters using local as a warning to run when someone comes in.
Yet you also used it to know that the ratter was there in the first place. PVPers use local as much, if not more, than ratters. Your average roaming gang uses it to get warning of impending doom as local fills with a 50 man gang to kill you. You use it to see where the ratting hotspots are in 0.0, and where the ratters are in the first place.
Is there a big gatecamp ahead in that 100au system with no planet near the destination gate? Well you could only know with local.
Without local you would be scanning down every system to try to find a ship, and when you find a ship on scan, chances are it is probably an empty ship at a pos. Later in the US timezone especially, 0.0 gets a bit sparse of targets. You could go 5 jumps or more without finding anything. It will get a wee bit tedious to scan down every single system to only find a target at a POS, or nothing at all.
Why cant people use direction scanner for this purpose? Most systems are so small you can cover it with directional scanner at max range 360 angle on first scan. This is how people report ship types in Intel channels anyway!
At worst, you might actually have to do a little work and jump around 2-3 times to get a complete scan of all local belts
This will add a nice exploraiton factor which is completely absent in this game. Enemies will have to WORK to find targets.
PVP will be vastly improved because if gang hiding in a safespot they wont know immediately if opposing gang is in local. This way *gasp* you can actually surprise your enemy and get the drop on them
Only thing I can see life might be a little harder on ratters / miners since this will empower hostiles to get a nice surprise factor going for them |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 23:15:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Turin
That depends on the ship. Intercepters and Dicters come out of warp very fast, and can align to a target almost instantly. Furthermore, a Hulk for example, takes at least a good 15 seconds just to get up to speed and warp, and thats already after its aligned. A hulk would NEVER get away.
I still stand by mty statement. If I am ratting or mining ( especially mining ), and I see a ship on my scan only 20AU away, at that point, I am dead. They just havent popped my ship yet.
Unless you're aligned, that is. Right? Don't tell me you don't know how to stay aligned and do your job. |
Face Lifter
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 23:28:00 -
[106]
Even with removed local chat, the farmer macro and players who behave like macros will maintain a high chance of invulnerability
When a farmer sees unknown ship warp to his belt, he can instantly exit game.
Now he will disappear within 1 minute, because even tho he gets attacked, he will not receive aggro timer because he quit before other ship had a chance to complete lock and activate module.
Even if the tackler points the farmer and calls his friends, that warp in with 40-30 seconds left on the timer, at least half the gang will get "target is invulnerable" error as they attempt to get target lock.
In most cases, the farmer will disappear with his ship.
Then when he gets back online, he logs out immediately a 2nd time, then logs back in a 2nd time, and now his ship warps to a safe spot, from which he can safely scan for trouble and cloak.
So, removing local without addressing the log off exploit will have very small impact on daily operations of macro farming.
|
Ms Delerium
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 23:37:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Face Lifter
Even with removed local chat, the farmer macro and players who behave like macros will maintain a high chance of invulnerability
When a farmer sees unknown ship warp to his belt, he can instantly exit game.
Now he will disappear within 1 minute, because even tho he gets attacked, he will not receive aggro timer because he quit before other ship had a chance to complete lock and activate module.
Even if the tackler points the farmer and calls his friends, that warp in with 40-30 seconds left on the timer, at least half the gang will get "target is invulnerable" error as they attempt to get target lock.
In most cases, the farmer will disappear with his ship.
Then when he gets back online, he logs out immediately a 2nd time, then logs back in a 2nd time, and now his ship warps to a safe spot, from which he can safely scan for trouble and cloak.
So, removing local without addressing the log off exploit will have very small impact on daily operations of macro farming.
logoffski was nerfed time ago, now when you log off 2nd time it doesnot matter, it will warp you to original point anyways |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 00:16:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Mifter Hogdido
Can we now have threads about this locked?
macro alt spotted.. |
Enraku Reynolt
Minmatar
Mid Knights
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 01:21:00 -
[109]
Id agree with no local sov IF and ONLY IF sov 4 or sov 5 let you control your gates
if your hostile, you you have to hack the gate to get through, and only cov ops can do this while stealthed, anyone else better be able to tank some guns, or they aint getting through
and of course them means we can post some turrets on our gates |
wtbrandomnamegenerator
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 01:36:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Enraku Reynolt
Edited by: Enraku Reynolt on 18/06/2009 01:32:38
Id agree with no local, IF and ONLY IF sov 4 or sov 5 let you control your gates
if your hostile, you you have to hack the gate to get through, and only cov ops can do this while stealthed, anyone else better be able to tank some guns, or they aint getting through
and of course them means we can post some turrets on our gates
So what your saying is you think roaming gangs in EVE are a bad idea period?
With this stupid idea (locking gates) and the amassed empires around 0.0, you would be able to roam what? NPC 0.0?
|
Enraku Reynolt
Minmatar
Mid Knights
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 01:39:00 -
[111]
Originally by: wtbrandomnamegenerator
Originally by: Enraku Reynolt
Edited by: Enraku Reynolt on 18/06/2009 01:32:38
Id agree with no local, IF and ONLY IF sov 4 or sov 5 let you control your gates
if your hostile, you you have to hack the gate to get through, and only cov ops can do this while stealthed, anyone else better be able to tank some guns, or they aint getting through
and of course them means we can post some turrets on our gates
So what your saying is you think roaming gangs in EVE are a bad idea period?
With this stupid idea (locking gates) and the amassed empires around 0.0, you would be able to roam what? NPC 0.0?
you can roam, you just have to break in so to speak
the door is locked, you have a means to get past that lock
but as it stands now, all sov means is your can dump you stuff on your land, but you cant but a fence up to stop your neighbor's cows from eating on your lands
------------------------------------------------
Do not let the world change you.
Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the same |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 02:00:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Enraku Reynolt
Originally by: wtbrandomnamegenerator
Originally by: Enraku Reynolt
Edited by: Enraku Reynolt on 18/06/2009 01:32:38
Id agree with no local, IF and ONLY IF sov 4 or sov 5 let you control your gates
if your hostile, you you have to hack the gate to get through, and only cov ops can do this while stealthed, anyone else better be able to tank some guns, or they aint getting through
and of course them means we can post some turrets on our gates
So what your saying is you think roaming gangs in EVE are a bad idea period?
With this stupid idea (locking gates) and the amassed empires around 0.0, you would be able to roam what? NPC 0.0?
you can roam, you just have to break in so to speak
the door is locked, you have a means to get past that lock
but as it stands now, all sov means is your can dump you stuff on your land, but you cant but a fence up to stop your neighbor's cows from eating on your lands
Two weeks to a month later everyone who matters will have trained up the required hacking skills and your fence will be gone once moar. Then what? |
Enraku Reynolt
Minmatar
Mid Knights
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 02:23:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Enraku Reynolt on 18/06/2009 02:24:51
didnt say it was a perfect idea, just if they get rid of 0.0 local view (which they probly never will) needs a counter balance, and this was the first thought that came to mind
plus, since it would only protect the top end systems, roaming gangs can still pick on people at the edges |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 02:35:00 -
[114]
Locking gates is a silly idea that goes against the whole premise of gate travel in EVE. Gates are neutral and will let anyone through. That's why someone with a -10 ss can jump through to empire, and it's up to the local Law to deal with him.
If you don't want undesirables in your system put up some bubbles and a gang at the gates, you lazy bum. |
Spurty
Caldari
Ore Mongers
BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 03:21:00 -
[115]
I'm still waiting for people to realize that local gone doesn't help them one bit with regards to finding people ratting.
I have two accounts, I always sit my alt cloaked on the gate with it on my 2nd screen while I rat.
Nothing happens to the in gate without me spotting the flash of light. That is the queue to me warping to a ss waaaaaaaaaaaaaay away from that gate so I can cloak waaaaaaaaaaay before the roaming gang comes through.
Result? They leave immediately as they see 'nothing' in local on any scanners except perhaps a wreck or two.
Good luck getting kills this way, just going to end up doing lots of jumps and not even knowing you are missing systems full of people ratting.
This really *IRKS* me as I pvp more than I rat.
As for thinking an auto-scan will not make the server buckle, are you on drugs? You are clearly not aware of what happens at the transaction level when you perform a 'non-cached' query every second x say 10,000 people undocked.
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
hi cat here
i was thinking earlier about corpses...
|
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 03:27:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Spurty
I'm still waiting for people to realize that local gone doesn't help them one bit with regards to finding people ratting.
I have two accounts, I always sit my alt cloaked on the gate with it on my 2nd screen while I rat.
Nothing happens to the in gate without me spotting the flash of light. That is the queue to me warping to a ss waaaaaaaaaaaaaay away from that gate so I can cloak waaaaaaaaaaay before the roaming gang comes through.
Result? They leave immediately as they see 'nothing' in local on any scanners except perhaps a wreck or two.
Good luck getting kills this way, just going to end up doing lots of jumps and not even knowing you are missing systems full of people ratting.
This really *IRKS* me as I pvp more than I rat.
As for thinking an auto-scan will not make the server buckle, are you on drugs? You are clearly not aware of what happens at the transaction level when you perform a 'non-cached' query every second x say 10,000 people undocked.
So you only rat in dead end systems? Also you are greatly underestimating the patience of the guy that will eventualy bag you regardless of what is changed or not. I do agree about the auto-repeat for scanners though as even a dev stated that having it on for even a small portion of the playerbase would, and I quote, "not be good" for the servers. But really you don't need an auto-repeat just hit the scan button in between the other buttons you push as you rat. With creative placement of the windows you can do it all in a flick of the wrist and a few taps of the finger.  |
Descrambled
Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 03:29:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Descrambled on 18/06/2009 03:30:18
Originally by: Spurty
I'm still waiting for people to realize that local gone doesn't help them one bit with regards to finding people ratting.
I have two accounts, I always sit my alt cloaked on the gate with it on my 2nd screen while I rat.
Nothing happens to the in gate without me spotting the flash of light. That is the queue to me warping to a ss waaaaaaaaaaaaaay away from that gate so I can cloak waaaaaaaaaaay before the roaming gang comes through.
Result? They leave immediately as they see 'nothing' in local on any scanners except perhaps a wreck or two.
Good luck getting kills this way, just going to end up doing lots of jumps and not even knowing you are missing systems full of people ratting.
This really *IRKS* me as I pvp more than I rat.
As for thinking an auto-scan will not make the server buckle, are you on drugs? You are clearly not aware of what happens at the transaction level when you perform a 'non-cached' query every second x say 10,000 people undocked.
silly post, you got a cloakie on every gate?
Also I just happen to dabble in programming. Surely various systems are spread amongst a server cluster. So dont exaggerate 0.0 is not Jita. Far from it. If they can run server side collision detection then a simple radius check is child's play |
Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 03:44:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Rastigan on 18/06/2009 03:44:29
No local for the aggressor kind of sucks also, spamming the scanner isnt too fun.
Simple game changes that would make macro isk farming much harder.
Aggression vs NPC's give it atleast a 3 minute timer, so you cant just insta logoff.
Combat probes, initially it is MUCH harder to probe ships and structures out than the old probing system, why ? A decent solution would be to have probes actually stay in their location when you leave the system(currently they stack ontop of each other) and reconnect to them.. That way you already have the probes in position for a quick scan when you come back..
I would even suggest being able to probe out cloaked ships, but make the cloak hide the signature so that probing is MUCH harder (and covops cloaks are still unprobable), but this would present a huge problem for supercaps.
|
wtbrandomnamegenerator
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 03:54:00 -
[119]
Edited by: wtbrandomnamegenerator on 18/06/2009 03:55:34
Originally by: Spurty
I'm still waiting for people to realize that local gone doesn't help them one bit with regards to finding people ratting.
Maybe then you'll realize (after actually reading the thread) that this is more to do with a program that use the information local passes on to keep ratters completely safe from any form of harm AT ALL.
To make it perfectly clear (since your probably vain enough to read a reply to your own post, even if you haven't actually read this thread):
H-Bot, and programs like it, use local, to allow the program to warp, and cloak, as soon as there is a new contact in local, then resume the hunting program as soon as local clears
The players who use this, are abusing an in game device to keep virtual total immunity to attack, so the most obvious solution is one of two:
1) No more cloaks on non cloaking ships (*this isn't really a solution, as the macro will simply warp off and log off when you enter system)
2) Make 0.0 local like WH local, and the bot program will then have nothing to key off of.
Nobody cares if your too lazy to not use scouts, or scanners to properly assure safety in the part of the game that is supposed to be absolutely unsafe, nobody cares if local will kill your ratting in 0.0 (tbh, for money, you should be in empire farming lvl 4's anyway).
What people care about is that there is a rampant abuse of this throughout the larger portion of the game, by a large portion of ratters in every part of EVE. |
Nel Tu
Minmatar
Lone Star Academy
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 05:01:00 -
[120]
Well ****, if I see hostiles in local I can SS and cloak too. I don't really need a program to do it.
/shrug
This seems like a little bit of column A and a bit of column B. Yeah they're using macros (though you actually have no real proof. I could go copypasta some help tool description too and say someone is using it ). And people are crying because people are doing things with the macro that you can do without them. Like I said, I can set standings, see red in local and SS/Cloak... it's not difficult. Or am I a macroer now?
Leave local alone, it's fine. Instead of altering the game because of an outside program, DO something about it. But then again I haven't said anything that hasn't been said thousands of times before.
/popcorn
==============
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 .. 14 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |