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Large Projectiles - worth it?

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TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.06.29 23:49:00 - [1] Edited by: TimMc on 29/06/2009 23:49:18 I've had all Hybrids trained up for a year now, and all Energy turrets for just over a month. Now I am working towards Projectiles. Simple question, is it worth training Large Projectiles, specifically autocannons, or should I just stop after medium? The Maelstrom looks like a fun ship on paper. (Edit: For PvP). o7
Orakkus Minmatar m3 Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.29 23:55:00 - [2] For T2 ACs, yes.. For T2 Arties.. not so much. That being said, if you have the skills, you are probably better off flying Gallente/Amarr BSes in PVP regardless. I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet.
Raniss	Posted - 2009.06.29 23:58:00 - [3] Projectiles worth it? Lol.
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.06.30 00:06:00 - [4] Well even if they aren't excellent, was thinking it would make me unnerfable... or at least prepare me for when they get buffed. But then it seems that minmatar have been crap so long that anyone who held their breath has died.
AstroPhobic Darkest Depths	Posted - 2009.06.30 03:38:00 - [5] No. At least not the Arty line. The maelstrom is bearable and makes for some good solo pvp footage, but you'll find yourself asking if you really spent a month of training for this crap. If you find Minnie bs or projectiles getting the buffhammer, you'll have enough time to train large projectile 5 before it actually hits. The apocalypse, that is.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.06.30 03:40:00 - [6] ACs would be nice to be able to use barrage which extends your range quite a bit. And Arty, well larges are so damn crappy every bit of extra performance counts, guess its worth it if you want to seriously use them.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Destructive Influence	Posted - 2009.06.30 16:32:00 - [7] For the most part, unless you are already trained deeply into it, it is not worth training Minmatar battleships or capitals. I personally think you should not bother with it. . .but its your 15 bucks. -----------
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.06.30 16:38:00 - [8] Yes, train them now. By the time you are finished maxing your specialization, they should be FOTM. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.06.30 16:41:00 - [9] yes, because Hail is more usefull than conflagration or void and despite popular belief, tempest can be a good fast gank boat using hail, it also has sails
Nullshadow Minmatar Aperture Harmonics	Posted - 2009.06.30 17:40:00 - [10] Edited by: Nullshadow on 30/06/2009 17:40:25 I slightly regret the time I spent on Large projectiles, since I could instead have developed another weapon type and been more useful at the things I am and have been involved with. However, since you already have the other two types of turrets maxed out, you might as well work on projectiles. Large projectiles aren't useless by any means, just weaker than your alternatives in many (most?) situations; there are times that Minnie ships shine, so why not be able to fly them at maximum efficiency when you do? And as others have said, things go in cycles, and in 2-3 years projectiles of all stripes may well be envied. If you have no other specific goal in mind, you might as well prepare for that day.
1600 RT	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:09:00 - [11] atm projectiles arent worth the skill time AC are weak arty is just crap. but if you hope CCP will one day buff projectile train for them, if not train amarr like everyone else.
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:10:00 - [12] If you want to fly minnie bs it obviously is. I trained minnie bs5/t2 large on one of my chars a few months ago and have yet to regret it. You already have 2 t2 large guns trained so i would expect you to be in the 30m+ sp range with maxed gunnery support and at least one bs skill at 5. At that point (or so i've found) its not really wasted sp even if you don't find yourself flying the ships all the time. Its about broader options and being nerfproof. If you're lacking in gunnery supports or don't have amarr/gallente bs 5 i'd prefer working on those i guess. -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
Ichandasil Minmatar Department of Defence	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:11:00 - [13] Originally by: Gneeznow yes, because Hail is more usefull than conflagration or void and despite popular belief, tempest can be a good fast gank boat using hail, it also has sails Tempest is meh and that fit you linked to proves it (lol 3km optimal). Anything you can do in that 'Pest he can do better in a blaster boat. And yes, I have all T2 large projectiles and am currently training lasers because falloff is arse and arty is beyond awful.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:58:00 - [14] Its fun gate camping with friends and your 2x sensor bosted maelstrom/tempest with artillery insta pops ships before your drake friends' missile land on target. Its fun - but not the most effective in a competitive fight. Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You
AstroPhobic Darkest Depths	Posted - 2009.06.30 22:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Gneeznow yes, because Hail is more usefull than conflagration or void and despite popular belief, tempest can be a good fast gank boat using hail, it also has sails The tempest shown in the EFT pic falls very short of anything a torp raven can do. VERY short.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.06.30 22:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Gneeznow yes, because Hail is more usefull than conflagration or void and despite popular belief, tempest can be a good fast gank boat using hail, it also has sails More useful than Conflag or void? Oh be still my beating heart. Seriously, that's really not saying very much...
Fossil Wolf omen. Gay4Life	Posted - 2009.06.30 22:40:00 - [17] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Gneeznow yes, because Hail is more usefull than conflagration or void and despite popular belief, tempest can be a good fast gank boat using hail, it also has sails The tempest shown in the EFT pic falls very short of anything a torp raven can do. VERY short. He's being a trouble maker I tell you!
Traderboz SlaveMart	Posted - 2009.06.30 22:49:00 - [18] Originally by: Gneeznow yes, because Hail is more usefull than conflagration or void and despite popular belief, tempest can be a good fast gank boat using hail, it also has sails The problem in your analysis is that it's better than conflag/void because the other races have a good faction ammo, whereas faction EMP has gimpy damage from the start. If Minmatar had the option of a good faction ammo, Hail would be pretty similar to the other two t2 ammos. As is though, I do agree it's nice (situationally) because of the higher damage and the high explosive component.
Susung Alt Anti-defamation League	Posted - 2009.06.30 23:17:00 - [19] Matari ships, If flown properly, are a training sink. you need Nav, missle, shield and armor skills. In differing quantities per ship. If you want to fly the Mael then train shield and proj. but NOTHING is funner than a phoon IMO but it takes years to fly it right. My main flies strictly matari from back when lasers were crap and peeps were putting projectiles on amarr ships to get some damage out of them. The way it is now will be changed, to what? who knows only the Devegods
me0de Holographic Universe	Posted - 2009.07.01 01:03:00 - [20] The real reason behind Minmatar, and thus Large Projectile superority, is subtle, yet completely relevent.
Kismo	Posted - 2009.07.01 04:04:00 - [21] Large Projectiles are pure win. Trust the flashy flashy pirate boy.... we'll never mislead you! <3 <3 <3
Einar Lightfingers Army 0f Two	Posted - 2009.07.02 04:09:00 - [22] I, for one, thoroughly enjoy having trained up projectiles. I have T2 AC and Arty's, and when used properly, yield some good fun. I don't use AC's much anymore, but my Alphastrom is hilarious out the wazoo. Sure, Projectiles need some adjustments, but it's still fun. _______________________ Once a BEE, always a BEE!
FT Diomedes Gallente Factio Paucorum	Posted - 2009.07.02 04:30:00 - [23] My primary PvP pilot has been flying exclusively Minmatar ships for a long time. I do sometimes envy Amarr pilots, but I have fun using my Tempests and Typhoons in BS fights. ...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.07.02 05:22:00 - [24] I'd put it this way - Minmatar ships can be worth it despite the projectiles. Minni ships aren't pure tank and gank, they try to get some versatility in the mix, speed and agility. To offset all those extra bonuses, CCP decided to give them **** for guns
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2009.07.02 05:51:00 - [25] It is funny watching a nanophoon get torn to bits trying to speed tank against another battleship. Whoever said Minmatar battleships can speed tank are deluded. Tanking with range is still totally possible, but that's why I like artillery better in skirmishes, simply because your opponent will 90% of the time be fitted with short range guns, and you are faster than him.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.07.02 07:27:00 - [26] Back in the day, having artilleries fitted on your gatecamping tempest was a feared and respected thing. [Tempest, Temp] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Signal Amplifier II Signal Amplifier II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Warrior II x5 Then CCP happened to EVE, and everything started sliding downhill. www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.quafeultra.com ò Buy a GTC
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.07.02 09:29:00 - [27] I guess thats a no then lol I will stop at mediums.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.07.02 09:32:00 - [28] Right now training up amarr BS 4 and getting some decent (T1) laser skills will make you work better in fleets. Better tank, better dps, better range. Thing is that starting to train for stuff that is FOTM now might get you in trouble later. Self-proclaimed idiot
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.02 09:34:00 - [29] Originally by: TimMc I guess thats a no then lol I will stop at mediums. Small and medium Projectiles in either Autocannon OR Artillery flavours are great weapons that work very well, you'll be happy with them. Large are a bit disappointing as the thread has already explained. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.07.02 09:36:00 - [30] Originally by: Tzar'rim Right now training up amarr BS 4 and getting some decent (T1) laser skills will make you work better in fleets. Better tank, better dps, better range. Thing is that starting to train for stuff that is FOTM now might get you in trouble later. I already have Amarr bs 5 and all the laser skills to t2.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.07.02 10:03:00 - [31] Originally by: TimMc Originally by: Tzar'rim Right now training up amarr BS 4 and getting some decent (T1) laser skills will make you work better in fleets. Better tank, better dps, better range. Thing is that starting to train for stuff that is FOTM now might get you in trouble later. I already have Amarr bs 5 and all the laser skills to t2. In that case; stay away from large projectiles till you have nothing more interesting to train, kinda like a 'just in case lasers get nerfed and CCP somehow got smart enough to boost minnie BS'. Self-proclaimed idiot
Omar Khayyam Minmatar	Posted - 2009.07.02 10:10:00 - [32] i dont understand why people say artilerries suck that much.. i have a maelstrom with 1200mm arties and i can kill stuff faster than a kronos with railguns or nearly the same as a CNR with cruise missiles.. ofcourse they need moe skills and your ship needs expensive mods to make them usefull (i.e using small or medium complex boosters so you can have space for tracking mods). but i think projectile turrets are quite usefull. p.s.: this doesnt mean they dont need a slight boost.. ------------------------------------------------ cruisers used to be a great power when i started this game :)
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.02 10:30:00 - [33] Originally by: Omar Khayyam i dont understand why people say artilerries suck that much.. i have a maelstrom with 1200mm arties and i can kill stuff faster than a kronos with railguns or nearly the same as a CNR with cruise missiles.. ofcourse they need moe skills and your ship needs expensive mods to make them usefull (i.e using small or medium complex boosters so you can have space for tracking mods). but i think projectile turrets are quite usefull. p.s.: this doesnt mean they dont need a slight boost.. Perhaps the people you fly with aren't flying their ships to their maximum ability? I know for a fact that when I fly my 1400 Mael with my friends in Megas and Domis that it's just an embarrassment and I can assure you that it is not a lack of SP. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Lucian Alucard Caldari Black Vice Industries	Posted - 2009.07.02 10:49:00 - [34] Edited by: Lucian Alucard on 02/07/2009 10:50:48 To be honest first ask yourself really how long do you plan on playing the game and how often? It takes creativity and alot of money to get Artys to be truly awesome. For fleets I still recommend for players 2 years or less to go Amar or Caldari from the get go, at the end of the day if your a pvper you will have every race trained up to some degree. I would personally work on making a TachGeddon for fleets that works first. Arty tracking will always be pants but that wouldn't be so bad if their RoF wasn't brown soggy pants. I doubt we will see another hay-day of the arty anytime soon there are still too many 06-07 players around with emotional scars from us old jerks gate camping with Temps , so ya go Rails or Tachs for now maybe work Ac's up to bs grade screw around with a Phoon for a bit then hop in a Megathron for 3 years like everyone else.
AstroPhobic Darkest Depths	Posted - 2009.07.02 15:07:00 - [35] Originally by: Lucian Alucard It takes creativity and alot of money to get Artys to be truly awesome I almost spit out my coffee. Good one sir, good one. Next time you put "awesome" and "artillery" in the same sentence, put a warning before it so we don't all ruin our keyboards.
Lrrp Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.07.02 15:08:00 - [36] Originally by: Omar Khayyam i dont understand why people say artilerries suck that much.. i have a maelstrom with 1200mm arties and i can kill stuff faster than a kronos with railguns or nearly the same as a CNR with cruise missiles.. ofcourse they need moe skills and your ship needs expensive mods to make them usefull (i.e using small or medium complex boosters so you can have space for tracking mods). but i think projectile turrets are quite usefull. p.s.: this doesnt mean they dont need a slight boost.. I'm maxed skilled in projectiles and mission in a Mael. My 2nd acct is max skilled in missiles and flys a Raven. Using both accts in the the same mission, the raven is killing npc Bs's half again faste than the Mael. Or for those of you who are math deficient...the Raven is halfway killing his 2nd BS before the Mael kills the first one.
Traderboz SlaveMart	Posted - 2009.07.02 15:25:00 - [37] I love vague posts like this. "My Maelstrom (fit not included) which is very creative and expensive is better than my buddy's Raven, thus Maelstrom > Raven in all cases." You convinced me!
Lucian Alucard Caldari Black Vice Industries	Posted - 2009.07.02 21:39:00 - [38] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Lucian Alucard It takes creativity and alot of money to get Artys to be truly awesome I almost spit out my coffee. Good one sir, good one. Next time you put "awesome" and "artillery" in the same sentence, put a warning before it so we don't all ruin our keyboards. Ok let me a bit more clear,if you buy the implants,T2 rigs, officer mods, spend the months maxing out every gunnery support,Minmatar ship skill and adv. gunnery skill yeah you can get some sweet results but if you asked yourself can a Meg or Apoc do the same job for less? Then yes they can and if same things were applied to said ships the results are epic. I just wish we had the old stacking system for low slot damage mods and sensor boosters weren't all borky now otherwise Tachs would be psycho ship melting win guns.
Annalea Lovelace	Posted - 2009.07.02 23:13:00 - [39] Out of curiosity, what caused the transition from "Amarr are terrible" to "Minmatar are terrible"? Because, it seemed like a year ago, people were complaining about how their Large Lasers were terrible compared to everything else, not worth it, etc.
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2009.07.02 23:24:00 - [40] Off the top of my head, EM resistance on armor was taken down by 10% and spread to the other resistances, Amarr turrets got a tracking buff (uncharacteristically in my opinion), bonuses on the Apocalypse? were changed or one of the Amarr battleships got a complete overhaul, as well as the change to Scorch ammo.
Traderboz SlaveMart	Posted - 2009.07.02 23:27:00 - [41] Originally by: Lucian Alucard Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Lucian Alucard It takes creativity and alot of money to get Artys to be truly awesome I almost spit out my coffee. Good one sir, good one. Next time you put "awesome" and "artillery" in the same sentence, put a warning before it so we don't all ruin our keyboards. Ok let me a bit more clear,if you buy the implants,T2 rigs, officer mods, spend the months maxing out every gunnery support,Minmatar ship skill and adv. gunnery skill yeah you can get some sweet results but if you asked yourself can a Meg or Apoc do the same job for less? Then yes they can and if same things were applied to said ships the results are epic. I just wish we had the old stacking system for low slot damage mods and sensor boosters weren't all borky now otherwise Tachs would be psycho ship melting win guns. The (obvious) thing you're missing is that if you officer-fit a good ship like an Abaddon or a Raven/CNR, or any other good mission ship, it's going to outperform the hell out of your officer-fit Maelstrom. Who cares if an officer-fit Mael can outperform another ship that's t2 fit. When you compare the ships with everything else being equal, i.e. one of the most basic requirements of a fair comparison, the ship fitting the artillery falls behind.
Lego Maniac Minmatar Dusty Death Enterprise Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:48:00 - [42] the short answer is no the long answer is NOOOOoooooooOOOOOOOOOoooooooooOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooOOOOOooooooooooooo ˄ ____________ ˄

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