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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Innovations
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:43:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Whitehound Oh, really? I have filed it now as a bug. I do not expect you to understand it. I want a more just system, because I get a lot of money this way into my account, which is rightfully not mine. Most I keep, because it is just a small amounts and the sum only piles up. Just sometimes does a larger payment stand out. If you should ever pay me too much and I notice it will you, too, get an e-mail in which I tell you about it. And you will get your money back.
All the best to you.
Good luck with that. if you ever get a payment from me and refund it i will send you back double the amount and tell you my stupidity let me off lightly first time round.
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:43:00 -
[62]
If you can't stand it, just give the large sums back. If someone buys from a order that is just a bit above yours it's generally because they are lazy, I've bought from higher sell orders plenty of times because I was lazy. Just let the small ones rest and give the big ones back.
Or don't you notice it if someone buys 1000 missiles for 120 million instead of 120k?
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lacretia
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:43:00 -
[63]
You have got to be a Troll...and a darn good one.
The system isnt broken. The eve marketplace inst modeled after ye'Olde auction house in WoW/FFXI/LOTR...nor is it modeled after Wal-Mart.
It is modeled after Wall-Street lined with barbed wire and land mines.
Learn to adapt, stop being a "I r meke 2 much moenies" and go sell some flippin veldspar.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:44:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Breaker77 on 14/07/2009 16:44:46 Edited by: Breaker77 on 14/07/2009 16:44:37
Originally by: Whitehound I have filed it now as a bug.
I can't wait for CCP to bring out the banstickÖ for the RMTer.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:52:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 16:55:18
Originally by: Paul Clavet You also did not address the issues with your proposed solution and the issues it will cause. Most offensive is your ignorance of the effect this will have on the scammers that you so despise... Do you think that this will increase them, or decrease them?
Well, you are wrong. I did mention how to fix it. You only need to think it over. Do not think too much of people making mistakes and deserving to be punished for their mistakes. That is the greed in the people talking. It is not how the world works, really.
And regarding the "Wallstreet market and mine field"-analogy will I include CCP in my prayers tonight. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Paul Clavet
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:58:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 16:55:18
Originally by: Paul Clavet You also did not address the issues with your proposed solution and the issues it will cause. Most offensive is your ignorance of the effect this will have on the scammers that you so despise... Do you think that this will increase them, or decrease them?
Well, you are wrong. I did mention how to fix it. You only need to think it over. Do not think too much of people making mistakes and deserving to be punished for their mistakes. That is the greed in the people talking. It is not how the world works, really.
And regarding the "Wallstreet market and mine field"-analogy will I include CCP in my prayers tonight.
OP is now pretty clearly a troll. ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:01:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Whitehound Do not think too much of people making mistakes and deserving to be punished for their mistakes.
This is not greed talking, but CCP. CCP has stated over and over that they will not step in to stop scamming, trading, or anything else as long as it is not breaking anything in the EULA or using an exploit.
People make a mistake on the market, they better learn from it real quick.
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RothimusPrime
Honored By Death
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:02:00 -
[68]
This has to be the worst, most pointless thread I have ever read in MD. However, I do love reading the OPs defenses and futile attempts at defining this as a bug.
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:03:00 -
[69]
Originally by: lacretia The system isnt broken. The eve marketplace inst modeled after ye'Olde auction house in WoW/FFXI/LOTR...nor is it modeled after Wal-Mart.
It is modeled after Wall-Street lined with barbed wire and land mines.
The problem is on Wall-Street if someone comes to you and you quote him 5 times more then what someone else is offering, the broker doesn't turn around and say - Here take the amount I quoted you and go to this guy and buy them there for the quoted price I gave you.
Because that is exactly what happens here.
I've always disliked this "feature" of EVE because in the toted "Free Market and Economy" this is the single most controlling feature of them all.
Imagine if the market in EVE was converted to real life, there would be all hell breaking lose all over the planet within minutes.
How the devs justify it is out of unspoken pure laziness rather then any real reasoning behind it. Because it certainly doesn't stop ISK seller that's pretty clear so why have it this way.. You simply don't.
You know the ONLY thing, the very very very only thing that make me change my mind is even a more simple market system based off EVE's concept.
"I want to buy x number of items and my high limit is y price, and/or z amount spend"
I want to buy 50,000 standard missiles, I'm willing to go as high as 35,000 ISK per unit, but I only want 50,000 of them, buy all my missile at whatever price you can (Go from cheapest to highest) and stop when I get to 50,000 units.
It then goes out and pays from cheapest to highest 50,000 missiles but I only pay what they are selling for.
Personally this is more n00b friendly so it reduces that steep learning curve, and it makes it considerably more simple and easy to use all the way around.
The system they have in place doesn't even benefit scammers in this way, it benefits the "Cheapest" seller. It's probably the most contributing factor to 0.01 ISK Wars in the game. Why CCP have a system in place that forces market campers to camp heaps of orders every 5 minutes loading up the database with useless records is beyond me.
Amarr for Life |
Ellmar
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:21:00 -
[70]
It's fundamental to the economy of eve and you're arogant to think you got more of an clue than the devs. I'll asume someone has already explained why in this thread a bunch of times but that you've ignored it. This way I can stop reading this thread right now.
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Zero Uptick
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Posted - 2009.07.14 18:06:00 -
[71]
posting in a stealth begging thread
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Daeva Vios
New Eden Credit Bureau
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Posted - 2009.07.14 18:06:00 -
[72]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: lacretia The system isnt broken. The eve marketplace inst modeled after ye'Olde auction house in WoW/FFXI/LOTR...nor is it modeled after Wal-Mart.
It is modeled after Wall-Street lined with barbed wire and land mines.
The problem is on Wall-Street if someone comes to you and you quote him 5 times more then what someone else is offering, the broker doesn't turn around and say - Here take the amount I quoted you and go to this guy and buy them there for the quoted price I gave you.
Because that is exactly what happens here.
I've always disliked this "feature" of EVE because in the toted "Free Market and Economy" this is the single most controlling feature of them all.
Imagine if the market in EVE was converted to real life, there would be all hell breaking lose all over the planet within minutes.
How the devs justify it is out of unspoken pure laziness rather then any real reasoning behind it. Because it certainly doesn't stop ISK seller that's pretty clear so why have it this way.. You simply don't.
You know the ONLY thing, the very very very only thing that make me change my mind is even a more simple market system based off EVE's concept.
"I want to buy x number of items and my high limit is y price, and/or z amount spend"
I want to buy 50,000 standard missiles, I'm willing to go as high as 35,000 ISK per unit, but I only want 50,000 of them, buy all my missile at whatever price you can (Go from cheapest to highest) and stop when I get to 50,000 units.
It then goes out and pays from cheapest to highest 50,000 missiles but I only pay what they are selling for.
Personally this is more n00b friendly so it reduces that steep learning curve, and it makes it considerably more simple and easy to use all the way around.
The system they have in place doesn't even benefit scammers in this way, it benefits the "Cheapest" seller. It's probably the most contributing factor to 0.01 ISK Wars in the game. Why CCP have a system in place that forces market campers to camp heaps of orders every 5 minutes loading up the database with useless records is beyond me.
This is far and away the most (only) useful thing posted in this thread thus far.
And I'm really not sure I agree.
Second post in useless thread, and for the record I didn't know I would be posting until I did!
------------------------------------- NECB |
ingenting
20th Legion Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2009.07.14 18:09:00 -
[73]
Edited by: ingenting on 14/07/2009 18:09:47 working as intended, let it die in silence... _________________ - "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu *BAAOOM*... Told you, newb."
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.14 19:17:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 19:25:51
Originally by: Zero Uptick posting in a stealth begging thread
In fact, I do feel like a beggar. I feel like I am receiving charity or a tip.
I am surprised by how anyone can compare this to today's real-world trading, but it would explain the global financial crisis. If it is not your money then why care about who gets how much?
The best comparison I can come up with is that of an ancient fur market, and where people have no concept of maths beyond their ten fingers. Where the size and quality of a fur is being ignored for the sake of coming to a deal, and not to fight over each one, because the only sharp thing each one has is a knife and not so much a sharp mind.
What does not fit into this picture is the accuracy with which each of these transactions are being logged. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Daeva Vios
New Eden Credit Bureau
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Posted - 2009.07.14 19:30:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Daeva Vios on 14/07/2009 19:34:21
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 19:26:52
Originally by: Zero Uptick posting in a stealth begging thread
In fact, I do feel like a beggar. I feel like I am receiving charity or a tip.
In fact (lol) you are receiving a tip for the services you provide.
You keep prices matched to the value of the items you are trading in, whether that is your ultimate purpose or not. This keeps markets stable relative to supply and demand, which is not to be underestimated. Visit a system where traders don't generally hang out and you'll find the price situation wildly out of balance. People will be paying far too much for items that are relatively common elsewhere, and will be paid far too little for rare items.
Retail does indeed have a purpose. The fact that you are performing this service out of the goodness of your heart and with pure intentions means that you're either a saint or an idiot.
I've placed my bet on which.
Edit: Shamelessly feeding trolls. Edit Redux: Third post in useless thread. ------------------------------------- NECB |
Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.14 19:49:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 19:53:15
Originally by: Daeva Vios In fact (lol) you are receiving a tip for the services you provide.
You almost got me there! I shall see it as a tip if I do not want to see it as an intended feature ..., and keep my mouth shut about this bug, right?
(sarcasm)If you really want to get me to your side then you need to bribe me. Let us say half of all your ISK. You will get a receipt, too.(/sarcasm) -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Seleucid Secundus
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Posted - 2009.07.14 20:01:00 -
[77]
This thread is painful but strangly entertaining to read. Guys, if this nub hasn't gotten the point after 3 pages of people telling him that its not a bug and that its part of the game, he never will. Lets just move on and watch him cry as he makes unintentional profit off of other peoples stupid mistakes
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Paul Clavet
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.14 20:44:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Seleucid Secundus This thread is painful but strangly entertaining to read. Guys, if this nub hasn't gotten the point after 3 pages of people telling him that its not a bug and that its part of the game, he never will. Lets just move on and watch him cry as he makes unintentional profit off of other peoples stupid mistakes
Hear, hear!
I just betcha that the OP is living in a country that once thrived off the back of... gasp... the slave trade! I wonder if he thinks about ending it all every morning, just because he ended up benefiting from an injustice... ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
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Posted - 2009.07.14 22:57:00 -
[79]
Stop. Feeding. Trolls. =P
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.07.14 23:40:00 -
[80]
you have 4 options
1) give the cash back 2) send the cash to one of the developer characters. 3) give the cash to one of the "contests" 4) suck it up and just realise that some people should not play drunk.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.07.14 23:43:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Steve Thomas just realise that some people should not play
QFT
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.14 23:51:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 23:55:02
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste Stop. Feeding. Trolls. =P
Stop calling me or whoever a troll. Instead, use your remaining brain cells to explain to me what this feature's intention is. If it is intended to support your greediness then this thread proves that there is no need for that.
You need to give me a better explanation. We are still in Market Discussion and I am aware that I will find more competitors than buyers here. I do not think that it needs much persuasion to get the mass of buyers onto my side when I tell them that they could get a better price and that it would continue to be fair but only the traders wish to keep exploiting them. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Seleucid Secundus
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Posted - 2009.07.15 00:24:00 -
[83]
Its not considered a feature, its just part of the market. Its not intended to do anything except tell unobserving people to pay attention when they buy/sell stuff. Well, maybe you could consider it a feature cause i (and other traders) use it to buy many items at different prices all at once with one buy order. Umm, just cause some person missused this feature and gave you more money that you expected is a 'problem'???? what?! They learned from their mistake and wont do it again, 'problem' solved. So please, please, end this pleasure/pain entertainment and kill this thread, pretty please?
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.07.15 00:35:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Whitehound Instead, use your remaining brain cells to explain to me what this feature's intention is.
I alone have told you 3 times that it's to stop RMT through the market. Others have told you that as well.
You are the troll as you fit the defination of it.
Quote: a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or collaborative content community with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion
Hopefully the mods will lock this already.
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Zamaranth Sesta
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Posted - 2009.07.15 01:45:00 -
[85]
Whether the OP is a troll or not, I do think there are some issues with the current system that he sort of brought up.
Something just doesn't make sense that huge amounts of money would be spendable with the same ease that smaller amounts... or maybe there should be some sort of system to help players out a bit.
I can't just go accidently spend $300k online instead of $300 at amazon or somewhere else. First off, my credit cards aren't that high, but even if it were a $3000 payment there would be more clicks.
The OP did bring up some Interface issues that would leed to mistakes. An Interface problem isn't quite a bug, but its on that order, its a design flaw.
He brought up issues of items moving as refreshing and he also brought up the text size that make it more likely to make a mistake.
There is a confirmation screen, and people really need to be careful to read it.
It bothers me, that I know that eventually I'll make a multy 10s of million isk mistake when I'm rapidly clicking through what should be a very minor purchase.
The problem with the design is that you need to be just as extremely careful making a 10k isk purchase as a 100million one.
That sort of accident just can't happen going to the Home Depot ... the possibility of mistakes is the type of play design issue that game developers would be well within their calling to optimize.
I am really concerned that as my savings grow into the billions that a momentary bit of haste could cost me months of play...and on what I regarded as a tiny transaction.
I should think that people should be able to lock down their money into seperate accounts, so I' could only put 30 million in my main account and only transfer more money in when I was about to make a larger transaction.
Of course, those of you routinely working with more may op to keep your billions accessable with a click but others of us might want to be more cautious.
I don't know what the solution is to having small type or moving items on a list making what should be a small purchase into millions but in RL there are all sorts of checks on this and there could be some mechanics placed to slow people down even farther than the first confirmation screen when a purchase is an order of magnitude above average exchange values in the database.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.07.15 01:58:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Dzil I'd prefer if we're going to invest dev time on the market side, that we improve the interfacing of the contract system.
Fixing people being stupid goes against the spirit of EVE.
^^^THIS^^^ exactly- improve the contract interface a bit And for the love of veld can we stop spewing nonsense about the (non)broken market mechanics? Ive heard some lame crap in my day but even i have to admit the "this guy paid me too much and now im a sad panda" makes me want to puke.
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Drab Cane
Mining Emporium inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.15 03:22:00 -
[87]
Just another point of view in an epic troll thread:
When a buyer selects a sell order to buy from, having the market select the sell order with the lowest price in the same station (instead of the selected order) rewards the seller for being more competitive.
By letting the buyer buy at the price he selected, the market honors the buyer's free will. He must have wanted to pay that price, 'cause that's the price he selected.
My sympathy goes out to Whitehound, who must have spent days reviewing his transaction history and his spreadsheets, to figure out where the extra ISK came from. When it comes to spreadsheets in space, chaos reigns. -----------------------------------------------
- Who Dares, Wins
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Mephistocles
Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2009.07.15 03:32:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Drab Cane My sympathy goes out to Whitehound, who must have spent days reviewing his transaction history and his spreadsheets, to figure out where the extra ISK came from. When it comes to spreadsheets in space, chaos reigns.
lol
+1 |
Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.15 05:11:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Whitehound on 15/07/2009 05:13:51
Originally by: Breaker77 I alone have told you 3 times that it's to stop RMT through the market. Others have told you that as well.
Look, only because you tell me this a thousand times does not make it true. I have explained to you how it does not stop it and how it can be used to transfer large sums of money from one account to another. The fact that I and others do get huge sums from almost out of no where is proof enough to see that it does not stop these transfers. So why do you insist that this is its intention when I and others have proof of it not working as you say?
You walk around with a frog on your nose and think that it is part of your face.
These transactions are what they are. They are inaccurate and false, because you have no explanation as to why you get this money. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.15 05:58:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Drab Cane By letting the buyer buy at the price he selected, the market honors the buyer's free will. He must have wanted to pay that price, 'cause that's the price he selected.
Why does the market honour a buyer's free will when it comes to his money, but ignores it when it comes to the item? -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
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