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This is not how I want to make money

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.07.14 07:09:00 - [1] Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 07:18:42 Hello, EVE is a wonderful, challenging game. Yet there is one thing that is starting to p' me off. It is people, who pay too much because of scammers. I am currently selling some missiles for about 30 ISK each and it is now the second time that someone paid 37,000.00 ISK instead, resulting each time in a payment of millions of ISK for a handful of standard missiles! Am I complaining about getting rich? No. What I am complaining about is of involuntary scamming of people. Some people like to set up sell orders with prices of a thousand times higher than the average price and some people choose to buy from them. I can only imagine these players play this game while being drunk or that perhaps the window moves and others to use it against them. I could live a happy and ignorant live if the payment went to the person who set up the over-prized sell order. However, the game engine rather takes the amounts from the best, lowest offer, but pays the full height of the selected price rather than for what I am asking. Why is this? Does this have to be this way? It makes me part of the scam, when I want to be an honest and fair trader. If the system chooses to take from my stock then it shall take it for the price I am asking and not for what the system thinks it needs to give me. I do not want to take part in scamming and the system shall not decide how much I get. And neither do I want people's charity. The first guy who I told about his over-payment asked for a refund and I gave him his money back. Now another guy paid me about 22 million for a handful of missiles ... I see this happening on a regular basis, and for much smaller amounts, which I do not bother about or else I would be refunding ISK about every hour. I consider this to be a bug in the transaction system. Who else has this problem? -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.14 07:18:00 - [2] I don't consider it a bug as it does stop RMT via he market that way, and I have repaid over payments a few times - it also teaches people how to use the market properly ... -- RaTTuS @ InEve, Capital Prints for sale
Lost Hamster Hamster Holding Corp	Posted - 2009.07.14 07:22:00 - [3] I had this a couple time, when someone paid more for the item, as it should be, but this is not a bug, this is how the market works. And I will not complain about the extra money either.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.07.14 07:24:00 - [4] Originally by: RaTTuS I don't consider it a bug as it does stop RMT via he market that way, and I have repaid over payments a few times - it also teaches people how to use the market properly ... It is a bug when the system decides to take it of my stock. Only because I get paid too much does not mean it is not a bug. People would feel different about it if they would get less than they are asking for. The amount by which it is wrong (plus or minus) only makes it a pleasant bug. Still, I do not want to support scamming and bugs like this is one of the reasons why people flood local with scam contracts. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.14 07:24:00 - [5] I think the most was 1bil for a t2 cap recharger - this was [mostly] paid back and the victim educated on what he did wrong..., but you cannot get them all -- RaTTuS @ InEve, Capital Prints for sale
Ambo I've Got Nothing	Posted - 2009.07.14 07:25:00 - [6] Edited by: Ambo on 14/07/2009 07:25:45 never mind... -------------------------------------- Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.07.14 08:31:00 - [7] Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 08:35:23 Originally by: Ambo never mind... Sure, if you pay me too much then I will not mind, but it really is not a fair deal for everyone else who is trading with me. Training a skill like Margin Trading or Accounting has little meaning with this kind of system, that is when the amount of profit becomes unpredictable. With only those two over-payments have I made more money then my entire stock is worth. This is just wrong and unrealistic, and needs to be fixed. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer
Future Mutant Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.07.14 09:06:00 - [8] This has to be a scammer troll or an idiot. Fine ill assume its an idiot... You dont like ppl overpaying for your products because you feel it makes you part of the scam eh? What the mechanic actually does is remove any incentive a scammer has to overprice his items in the market. He can overprice all he wants- only the cheapest sell order fills the request. So shut up already, take the isk, and feel warm and fuzzy about your role in preventing scammers from benefiting from their actions. Your stuff iz mine through actions
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.07.14 09:18:00 - [9] Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 09:22:46 Originally by: Future Mutant So shut up already, take the isk, and feel warm and fuzzy about your role in preventing scammers from benefiting from their actions. Why don't you shut up? The system is not the one who gets to make the decision. And if EVE is a futuristic space simulation then how come my trading computer is about as dumb as you? Do people not deserve a trading computer on board their ships and stations, which gives them the best price? The troll is you. Or you are one of those scammers who exploit the game this way. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Innovations	Posted - 2009.07.14 09:29:00 - [10] Edited by: Midas Man on 14/07/2009 09:32:11 Originally by: Whitehound Sure, if you pay me too much then I will not mind, but it really is not a fair deal for everyone else who is trading with me. Sure it is they have the same chance of recieving more money for their products, the mechanics are the same for all not just yourself therefore it is fair to all. Originally by: Whitehound Training a skill like Margin Trading or Accounting has little meaning with this kind of system, that is when the amount of profit becomes unpredictable. With only those two over-payments have I made more money then my entire stock is worth. This is just wrong and unrealistic, and needs to be fixed. 1) Margin Trading - This skill only changes the amount of Isk you need in escrow so you are correct it has little meaning in your example but it is extremely useful for any trader and therefore has great meaning and place in the game 2) Accounting is extremely useful for reducing taxes on trading and therefore a great skill for any trader. Also sales taxes are paid by the seller so the more someone pays the more you save if you have trained accounting so not sure I get your point here. I can only assume you paid too much for something and are annoyed that you didnt get you isk back edit fixed some spelling probably missed more

Fekka Lumberjack Industries	Posted - 2009.07.14 09:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 09:27:25 Why don't you shut up? The system is not the one who gets to make the decision. And if EVE is a futuristic space simulation then how come my trading computer is about as dumb as you? Do people not deserve a trading computer on board their ships and stations, which gives them the best price? The troll here is you who does not understand the situation. Or you are one of those scammers who exploit the game this way or wish it would work in this way for them, too. Your trading computer can and will show you the best price. You still have to choose to buy at that price. That's just the human factor. You can't prevent people from beeing dumb.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.07.14 09:46:00 - [12] Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 09:56:20 Originally by: Fekka Your trading computer can and will show you the best price. You still have to choose to buy at that price. That's just the human factor. You can't prevent people from beeing dumb. You could prevent it with a better trading computer and at the same time make trading a little bit more challenging when only the price decides. In fact it is the prices that decides whose stock the items are being taken off, but it was not me who set up the over-priced order. So if you want it to be fair then it is the one who sets up over-priced order who deserves the money. And there is no self-righteousness involved here. It is only a bug. Do you not see that this invites scams? It allows me to set up two orders, where one has a competitive price and the other is a total scam, but in both cases do I make a profit. Unless of course everyone starts doing it and speculates on that one transaction that is going to pay off the entire other order. In short, it is complete nonsense and because it is a bug that works in some people's favour have many of you not yet made up their mind about it. When was the last time you walked out of a super market and paid for a pack of carrots the price of a small car? And why would you not ask for a refund? I think EVE is a game too good to support this kind of stupidity. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.07.14 09:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Midas Man I can only assume you paid too much for something and are annoyed that you didnt get you isk back No, I happen to be an honest person - something you are not familiar with. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Innovations	Posted - 2009.07.14 10:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Midas Man I can only assume you paid too much for something and are annoyed that you didnt get you isk back No, I happen to be an honest person - something you are not familiar with. A bug is a term used to described something that isnt working as intended. The situation you described is Working as intended. Features and Ideas Discussion This way -------> good luck you will need it.
Fekka Lumberjack Industries	Posted - 2009.07.14 10:05:00 - [15] Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 09:56:20 When was the last time you walked out of a super market and paid for a pack of carrots the price of a small car? And why would you not ask for a refund? I think EVE is a game too good to support this kind of stupidity. You're idea of a fair price just isn't everyones. It all depends. Just for the sake of argument: What if you are in the middle of a desert and carry around a lot of money but have nothing to eat? You gladly would pay the price of a small car for that carrots before you starve. "Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it." Some wise man said that a long time ago and it pretty much concludes the whole thread.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.07.14 10:27:00 - [16] Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 10:28:17 Originally by: Fekka "Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it." Some wise man said that a long time ago and it pretty much concludes the whole thread. Spare me your wisdom. If you want to give me something just donate half of your ISK to me. Thanks. Until then do I see EVE as a game to have fun with. And I get no fun from receiving huge sums of money from people who did not intend to give them to me, who are glad when they receive a refund and would otherwise have thought of me as some greedy arse. I just do not have the time to go after each one of them, to check if each transaction has actually transferred the right amount of money. If I do not care about it now then I will not get any money back once a bug charges me too much or rewards me with too little. See it this way. If others are allowed to act stupid and to pay too much, then why does the system reward me when I could set up under-priced orders and still walk away with a huge profit? Under-priced orders are stupid, too. And what about buy orders? Do they give me less when I try to sell to an under-priced buy order? No, the game does pick the best available price! So stop pretending as if this would be some miracle payment system when it is a bug. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Innovations	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:08:00 - [17] Edited by: Midas Man on 14/07/2009 11:09:32 Originally by: Whitehound more random ditherings wrong again, if i right click an item hit sell. typ 0.01 and hit sell. I will sell my product to the highest buy order which could be 1,000,000,000 isk, guess how much i will recieve.... 0.01isk which is exactly what i asked for, no bug no faulty UI just random stupidity from me. works exactly the same the other way when buy, I buy for the price I offer. The UI doesn't make a value up that is different from what I enter, no bug comes along and changes the price I offer. Everything works fine and as intended, if people rush and make mistakes or are to dumb to realise there is a better offer then there is no flaw in the software. Only people with your level of intellegence are fooled by this.
Fekka Lumberjack Industries	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:10:00 - [18] Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 11:04:05 ... If you want to give me something just donate half of your ISK to me. Thanks... ... I get no fun from receiving huge sums of money from people who did not intend to give them to me... You have a problem with people giving you money and want half my ISK? You really have some issues, Mr...
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Whitehound stop pretending that this would be some miracle payment system when it is a bug. It's not a bug Person A sells 1 unit of whatever for 1 billion isk that he he bought with RL money. Person B sells 1 unit at 10,000 isk. Person C sold the 1 billion for RL money, but ended up giving the isk to Person B. It's designed like this on purpose to stop RMT through the market. If someone is too stupid to setup their market screen to sort from lowest to highest price, oh well. EVE provides you with all the tools necessary to make an informed decision on what you can pay for an item. If you are feeling guilty because some people are not the brightest, then perhaps EVE isn't for you.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Midas Man wrong again, if i right click an item hit sell. typ 0.01 and hit sell. I will sell my product to the highest buy order which could be 1,000,000,000 isk, guess how much i will recieve.... 0.01isk which is exactly what i asked for, no bug no faulty UI just random stupidity from me. That is not same. I might as well hit "trash item" and I would not count it as a bug. You just make up one reason after another to cash in. Fine, be a trader with no morals. I choose to be different. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer

Whitehound	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Fekka You have a problem with people giving you money and want half my ISK? You really have some issues, Mr... No, you have issues. I am still waiting for half of your ISK and am only willing to take it from you, because I think you are special and worth making an exception. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Whitehound Some people like to set up sell orders with prices of a thousand times higher than the average price and some people choose to buy from them. I can only imagine these players play this game while being drunk or that perhaps the window moves, the text is too small and the mouse lands on the wrong line, and others to use it against them. I could live a happy and ignorant live if the payment went to the person who set up the over-prized sell order. However, the game engine rather takes the amounts from the best, lowest offer, but pays the full height of the selected price rather than for what I am asking. Why is this? Does this have to be this way? Ok, I am really confused. As I understand it. a) You buy from sell orders and click on a specific sell order (in a specific station). That sell order might be totally overpriced, but you chose it specifically (maybe due to loaction) you pay the price and the overpriced seller gets your ISK. b) You are dumb/drunk and setup a buy order which is higher than the lowest sell order. The person with the lowest sell order gets more than they asked for because they are paid the amount you had offered. There seem to be two mechanics being mixed up in the OP but no one else has challenged the quoted part of your post so it must be me who is missing something. --- *Let My People Go*
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:47:00 - [23] Originally by: Breaker77 It's designed like this on purpose to stop RMT through the market. Not exactly. It's designed to mimic a stock market in Rl. But it just so happens to stop laundering through the market.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Breaker77 ... If you are feeling guilty because some people are not the brightest, then perhaps EVE isn't for you. Oh, some sure are not the brightest, but I do not think that these are consequently the same who pay too much. You have now compared it, or at least tried to, with real world money. Tell me, when you go in a shop and are being charged too much do you then not deserve a refund? Markets will give you a refund for when an item was mislabelled, however, they do not charge you extra when the price goes up. Human errors are made all the time, and bugs are human errors, too. If you like to be a pirate and rob traders then, well, that is your way. I could understand your point of view, but if I want to be an honest trader then why should I not complain about this? Make your profit the way you want, but do not tell me what to think of this. I think it is a bug and further do I find it immoral to profit from it. I have yet to see a good argument why this is the right kind of trade. If people are supposed to learn how to use the market then a simple message would be sufficient. It does not need to take millions of ISK of them. And if it is meant to stop scams then why does it cost the wrong people's money or why do they not just get the best price like with buy orders? -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer
Wooster Knite	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:59:00 - [25] Originally by: RaTTuS I think the most was 1bil for a t2 cap recharger i was - some years ago - selling T1 torpedo listed at 120 isk. One single torpedo missile was sold for 3 bil (3000mil). unfortunatly it was an "illegal ISK transaction" error from some ISK seller and CCP took it back from me
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.07.14 12:01:00 - [26] Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 12:04:08 Another example of this is: Go and set up a buy order, which pays 10 ISK per item at station A. And further, at the same time there are several sell orders open that sell the item for less. Let us say 8 and 9 ISK at station B and C. What happens is that you buy from all sell orders with an item price of 10 ISK regardless of what the sellers are asking. The system lets you not simply set up a buy order while the item is for sale and in reach, and, it does not let you buy the items for the price they are being advertised. Instead, it assumes that you want to buy them for 10 ISK as well are willing to travel to station B and C. It does not assume that you would rather want to buy them for the price their are being offered for or to only set up a buy order for 10 ISK per item at station A. If you want to set up a buy order for 10 ISK you first need to buy all the cheaper items of the market, one order after another, before you can set up the buy order. The way it works, and that it works this way, can be in nobody's interest. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.07.14 12:21:00 - [27] Edited by: Whitehound on 14/07/2009 12:24:14 Originally by: LaVista Vista It's designed to mimic a stock market in Rl. But it just so happens to stop laundering through the market. Does it? What if I tell you to set up a sell order, and I set up one as well, but far over-priced? I would buy from my own sell order, the item will be taken from your order and you receive the money. There you go. I have given you a huge amount of money. You only need to have the best order for a short time. Depending on the item could this work with a 99.9% guarantee. You think it prevents laundering? I think it is a bug. Besides, CCP probably logs all transactions and for long enough so that no laundering will ever work. So do not think there is a way that any transaction could ever go unnoticed. If they want to they can and will find it. All accounts have transaction logs and journals, and who knows what else CCP has that we only do not see! -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2009.07.14 12:26:00 - [28] Originally by: Whitehound You just make up one reason after another to cash in. Fine, be a trader with no morals. I choose to be different. You know you can always just give back the difference ? Meanwhile, they're getting their missile they indicated they were willing to pay millions for....
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.07.14 12:27:00 - [29] Originally by: Whitehound I think it is a bug. You think an intended feature is a bug? When CCP was intended for the SCC market to be like a stock market. Then how can a fundamental rule be a bug?
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.07.14 12:29:00 - [30] Originally by: Lord Fitz You know you can always just give back the difference ? Meanwhile, they're getting their missile they indicated they were willing to pay millions for.... And I do give back the difference. Next time you better read more carefully. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer



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