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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Vuk Lau
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:03:00 -
[1]
For a long time I am trying to write down this issue without using to much "curse" words in it. Its part of the problem that I personally had a lot of bad experiences with GM team, and I had to try to be as objective as possible, esp cause I am CSM delegate. Before I start my rant I will say that I understand the workload GM dept have on their shoulders, but its the job they choose, and they are to blame for increased workload due to incompetence in their dept. I can speak for the good chunk of people I am in day to day contact (and its several thousands of 0.0 dwellers) and most of them lost any confidence in GM team. I was personal witness of (I will not use word ******ed) completely clueless low level GM answers regarding various gameplay aspects. Sadly due to RoC I cant post any communication between players and Game Masters, but I assure you there is lot off :****: there. In many cases you can get the hint that GM actually read your petition not before 3rd reply. Then its really no wonder why many people ask for escalation to Senior GM right away thus increasing workload on Senior GMs. That would be the 1st part of the issue. Low level GMs, regardless if CCP is/was outsourcing them must IMHO be the active players. On top of that they must pass rigorous knowledge tests so they shouldn't embarrass both GM dept and CCP as company. The much bigger problem then low level GMs are Lead GMs. I will not mention many dubious decisions, but I will focus on one case which basically pushed me to actually raise this issue. I must say that as I met during CSM 2.0 Iceland meetings three Lead/Senior GMs and I saw the passion they have towards EVE, and GM team/CCP really did great job during POS Exploit issue, but simply.....there is so much things to improve there. Anyway most of you were introduced to one of the biggest ****ups of CCP called „BoB reloaded-issue“. It was discussed with GM Grimmi during CSM 2.10 meeting. Chatlog can be found here Chatlog from CSM 2.10 meeting
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Vuk Lau
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:04:00 -
[2]
Anyway I will highlight the most important quotes for lazy guys.
[ 2009.04.05 16:14:37 ] GM Grimmi > About the naming policy.. we want to be able to help people so having everything written in stone is not really the way to go [ 2009.04.05 16:15:05 ] GM Grimmi > but we definately can do with more consistency in applying our rules [ 2009.04.05 16:27:31 ] Vuk Lau > Also can we know was BOBR decision made by lowlevel/senior or lead GMs? [ 2009.04.05 16:27:44 ] Vuk Lau > end [ 2009.04.05 16:34:59 ] Vuk Lau > Can I get an answer from Grimmi who was responsible for BOBR issue. Personaly I hope that guy is shipped to North Pole [ 2009.04.05 16:35:46 ] Ankhesentapemkah > What vuk said, [ 2009.04.05 16:36:00 ] CCP Xhagen > Grimmi [ 2009.04.05 16:36:27 ] GM Grimmi > That issue was debated for a long time and then decided by Lead GM, as well as many others. [ 2009.04.05 16:36:45 ] Vuk Lau > dear lord :D [ 2009.04.05 16:37:03 ] GM Grimmi > it was by no means a unanmous decision Page 4 [ 2009.04.05 16:38:13 ] Tusko Hopkins > If you had such a consensus among the GMs, how come you backed off so easily? It was a very lame thing to do tbh. [/end] [ 2009.04.05 16:38:46 ] Ankhesentapemkah > Issler - because BOB doesnt deserve special treatment in a negative way either. Secondly, reversing the decission was the most damaging of all of this, why did that happen? [ 2009.04.05 16:39:23 ] Omber Zombie > just wondering what the basis was for changing the name as it seems to go against your naming policy, even the unofficial one (end) [ 2009.04.05 16:40:20 ] Issler Dainze > what omber said, as to special negative treatment, it wasn't they lost their name in a legitimate fashion (en) [ 2009.04.05 16:41:15 ] GM Grimmi > There really isn't much more to say about that whole thing than was said on the forums. [ 2009.04.05 16:41:23 ] GM Grimmi > It was a human error that once more proves that assumption is the mother of all f*** ups. [ 2009.04.05 16:42:49 ] Omber Zombie > so, just to be clear, the GM's as a group decided that they should ignore the naming policy and you guys didn't expect a backlash? (end)
So tldr version is: - CCP asks CSM about our opinion. I cant access my csm emails but I think it was opinion of majority if not anonymous that CCP should not intervene there. - GM hot shot crew debate and brainstorm for couple of weeks, and finally make decision to break their official rule - Dramabomb on forums - GM team reverses decision
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Vuk Lau
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:04:00 -
[3]
WTF? Does anyone else thinks its something wrong here. And this is just crown jewel of GM dept, there is lot of other mistakes that could or did interfered with 0.0 warfare in certain weight.
Also I dont see point of Internal Affairs dept when u complain to Arkanon about lead GMs and he just forward your complain to them to give you an answer. I know they are in same rock band, but guys u are running the company with 400k customers. This is not the way to deal with things.
Anyway there is not much I can propose what I already didnt said several times to GMs, but they need to get their **** sorted.
-Clear rules and policies (I think there is only policy about reimbursment which is vague and doesnt a mean a **** with „our logs dont show nothing“ generic answer) -Proper training of all GMs -IA dept. Actually doing their job and start slaping GM dept for their mistakes
I will naturally raise this issue for next meeting, and I am asking for one more CSM – GM meeting in Iceland cause a lot off things were said to CSM in January and nothing actually happened.
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Pr3da1or3
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:09:00 -
[4]
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Imisanna
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:09:00 -
[5]
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of1570
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:10:00 -
[6]
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Typhena
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:10:00 -
[7]
--- Sig Under Construction |
Hinata
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:11:00 -
[8]
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Fen Paci
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:11:00 -
[9]
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Moon Dogg
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:12:00 -
[10]
I am definitely on board for explicit trainings of lower lever GMs as well as testing/vetting of GM applicants!
*********************************** "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..." |
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Endis
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:13:00 -
[11]
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Yuna Terra
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:13:00 -
[12]
Now gimmie my isk Vuk
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KosmikZA
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:14:00 -
[13]
GM's should not abuse their power at all in the game, and those that do get slapped down rightly so.
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Kruselloyne
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:14:00 -
[14]
Our logs indicate that there is no record of your existance. You do not exist. Nothing exists. We are all a figment of your imagination.... deleting life, kbye.
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Ameri Boi
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:14:00 -
[15]
I too would love a degree in Game Mechanics
pew pew boom boom FLASH splat. |
Traderjohn
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:14:00 -
[16]
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agram tabris
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:15:00 -
[17]
fully supported.. me too was a victim of the "our logs don't show anything" generic answer more than once...
no sig. |
Chilled G
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:15:00 -
[18]
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Valgorie
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:15:00 -
[19]
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Calduin
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:15:00 -
[20]
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TyphMaster
Main Office
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:15:00 -
[21]
Supported --- Sig Under Construction |
Molotovney
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:15:00 -
[22]
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Barsak Kressel
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:15:00 -
[23]
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Ved Run2
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:16:00 -
[24]
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machielk
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:16:00 -
[25]
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Trece Fox
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:17:00 -
[26]
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Minthos
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:17:00 -
[27]
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Lrrp
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:17:00 -
[28]
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White Paladin
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:17:00 -
[29]
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Trane J
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:17:00 -
[30]
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Nighthour
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:19:00 -
[31]
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Hidetoshi Rushd
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:20:00 -
[32]
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Fallassar
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:20:00 -
[33]
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Saka Mizuno
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:21:00 -
[34]
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ElvenLord
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:21:00 -
[35]
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Yanis IV
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:21:00 -
[36]
Its quite aparent that "the logs show nothing" means, your petition was too long (i.e. it had more than 1 word in it) and as a gm they were too lazy to check anything. every time i get this response i have discovered that calling them on the fact that they never checked the logs usually makes them actually check the logs, and normally makes them reimburse if its actually their bad. This is a poor way of doing things, but i think they are taking their lead from the way that government agency's delay people to the point of giving up. Somthing should be done, but what?
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Lord Iluvatar
4S Corporation
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:22:00 -
[37]
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Whyt Rhodan
German Kings Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:22:00 -
[38]
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Thimerion
Baptism oF Fire Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:22:00 -
[39]
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ElvenLady
Elf industries
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:23:00 -
[40]
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FunGuy Da'an
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:23:00 -
[41]
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KUNG'FU BOSANAC
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:23:00 -
[42]
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LordElven
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:24:00 -
[43]
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thebaltaci
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:24:00 -
[44]
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Julius Gherhan
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:24:00 -
[45]
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boobietrap
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:24:00 -
[46]
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Stanis
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:24:00 -
[47]
<-- YMCA 4TW! |
Jaquen H'gar
Mothers of EVE
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:24:00 -
[48]
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Mark LT
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:25:00 -
[49]
Vuk Lau is BEST Lau
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MasterOfTheNight
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:25:00 -
[50]
Supported
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mdjacks
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:25:00 -
[51]
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Tycho Rahe
German Kings Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:25:00 -
[52]
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Shalandra
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:26:00 -
[53]
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TheSaint2000
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:26:00 -
[54]
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Sean Naised
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:26:00 -
[55]
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Darekish
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:26:00 -
[56]
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Jenna Jenkins
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:26:00 -
[57]
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Lysandriel
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:26:00 -
[58]
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Alanthar
German Kings Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:26:00 -
[59]
the staff should not manipulate anything ingame ... just giving support
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Melgur
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:28:00 -
[60]
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Tyffanny
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:29:00 -
[61]
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Razor 78
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:29:00 -
[62]
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Blavx
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:29:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Blavx on 01/08/2009 20:29:35
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I'Mouges
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:30:00 -
[64]
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Eddie Walker
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:31:00 -
[65]
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mini mimi
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:33:00 -
[66]
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge is knowing that a Tomato is a fruit.. Wisdom is knowing not to use one in a fruit kocktail... |
Alex SOKOLOFF
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:33:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Alex SOKOLOFF on 01/08/2009 20:33:47
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Makenshi Drakonnen
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:33:00 -
[68]
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Dark Alex
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:34:00 -
[69]
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Lady Ann
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:35:00 -
[70]
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Shelak
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:35:00 -
[71]
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Iss Hogai
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:38:00 -
[72]
--- In the end, everything is grey... Pilot of the Griffin of DOOM |
Malekan
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:38:00 -
[73]
I have to agree with you about a coherent reimbusement policy and implementing it vigorously. This also goes for the training of the front line GM. They are there to take care of the routine items and to gather information for a higher level GM that would actually make a decision.
I have had the standard, "our records don't show..." type of response and I had to whip out my own logs and post them as well as asking for an escalation to someone higher in the GM chain. Why did the front line GM not access the records?
It also took over a week before I got a response from a GM.
A recommendation. GMs should reply within 24 hours with something. Even if it is a statement that the petition is assigned to a GM...and give the GM's name so you know who's hands it is in.
Ok, that is my 2 cents worth.
Mal
You the man Vuk Lau!
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C4pevna
xSPECNAZx
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:41:00 -
[74]
X~ |
AJ Deathwing
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:42:00 -
[75]
This is absolutley correct. With the ammount of time and money that many people invest into this game CCP should be beyond reproach, if my Mobile Telephone company was found to break its rules it would be liable for a law suit no matter weather it was a supervisor or a person answering the telephone. CCP as a company needs to appreciate that people will vote with their feet. If CCP continue to fail they will loose their customer base to other similar game titles and will eventually fail on a corporate level leaving the same dedicated players holding either a much larger subscription bill to keep CCP afloat or with their fave game being taken offline as the provider goes bankrupt.
Let us not forget that CCP already charge more per subscription for this game. Other companies with lower subscription rates manage to keep their GM's in line so how come CCP cant when they cost us more money, personally this me me very sad as i can see that CCP has next to no respect for its customers.
Use our money wisely and sort this out, GMs who abuse the syste or fail to do their job properly should be fired, no two ways about it. It may "just be a game" but FFS CCP its our game, and your ****ing job, if you cant do that right why not take a course on plumbing and see if CCP can get that right?
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Beor0d
Congregatio Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:42:00 -
[76]
_______________________ Current projects by EVE players |
Bolt Charger
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:43:00 -
[77]
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mjed mazga
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:44:00 -
[78]
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bloody johnroberts
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:45:00 -
[79]
totally agree vuk
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Nalme Ark
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:48:00 -
[80]
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ProSaturn
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:49:00 -
[81]
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megetegem
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:50:00 -
[82]
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Nef Erator
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:56:00 -
[83]
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Djerin
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:57:00 -
[84]
Spot on Vuk. Same rules for us, for our enemies and for everyone else. There need to be straight policies, that we can trust in. And for that CCP need to apply and enforce straight rules within their operations. ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo |
Lucas Avidius
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.08.01 20:59:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Lucas Avidius on 01/08/2009 20:59:18 Get it together, GMs, and start doing your jobs. Canned responses help no one.
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Bishop 5
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:04:00 -
[86]
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Karasti
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:09:00 -
[87]
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Kandrew Dorak
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:15:00 -
[88]
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jkepster
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:16:00 -
[89]
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Alucard AR
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:16:00 -
[90]
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RazorCRO
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:17:00 -
[91]
Go get em tiger...i mean Vuk...
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Angeus
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:18:00 -
[92]
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Tira Mitzu
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:28:00 -
[93]
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Danvola
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:32:00 -
[94]
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Higgs Foton
Scoopex Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:38:00 -
[95]
___________________________________
Ich auch, bin schwul
Please resize sig to a maximum file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Chee
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:47:00 -
[96]
Go Vik Luk!
I am/we are not giving a thumbs up because hes in my/our alliance as this may come across as such with alot of MM voting.
I for one dont bother with petitions anymore, I can get myself out of **** much faster and without having to deal with some ******ed responses and wasting time. The e-o incident did it for me, short sighted reasoning from GM dept got me really ****ed off. You need to actually READ the BLOODY petition.
I better stop now before I keep ranting
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Vlajko san
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:47:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Vlajko san on 01/08/2009 21:47:25 I just hope we'll all live to see the day. :)
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Elarian
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:52:00 -
[98]
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Sylvia Veldspar
Civire Armament Manufacturing Services
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:53:00 -
[99]
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R Grainger
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:57:00 -
[100]
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Cas Ca'Dego
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:59:00 -
[101]
No question.
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Warp Warrior
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:08:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Agemmemnon No... no.. no Guns I am going to live in Eve without killing!!
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Solis Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:09:00 -
[103]
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Kwa Zulu
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:11:00 -
[104]
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Zethura
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:15:00 -
[105]
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Elil hrair
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:17:00 -
[106]
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Watauga
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:19:00 -
[107]
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Kasi Kasai
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:23:00 -
[108]
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Komco
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:24:00 -
[109]
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Matke47
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:24:00 -
[110]
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KOMLE
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:25:00 -
[111]
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QwaarJet
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:39:00 -
[112]
Supported.
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AstroBoy1
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:40:00 -
[113]
I'd like to mention there was a time I reported over 20 macro ice miners, linking all of their names so that it would be easy for the GM. None of them ever got banned and they are all still at it today. Fly over to Anatolare in Everyshore and see for yourself. The only response I got was (to summarize) 'we'll look into it, but we can't tell you if we take any action.'
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Lord Kreios
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:48:00 -
[114]
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:56:00 -
[115]
I have to agree with the assessment of the GM team. There are many people I have told to not bother with very legitimate issues that have happened due to the game screwing up for some reason or another and knowing how the GM team works I have told them to not bother because I'm almost certain that they will get the short curt response of "Our logs show nothing".
On another note I have heard any a horror story and witnessed a few my self of GMs stepping over legitimate in game mechanics and returning "stolen property" to people. Mechanics like a friend of mine stole an unmanned Orca out of a belt. The pilot of the ship complained to the GMs and was returned the ship. I'm sorry but where in the rules does it say that that sort of action is illegal or against game mechanics. Another example is that a friend of mine (I don't know how specific with this one I can be) managed to snag a good pile of T2 BPOs from a major alliance. They were given to him by a friend in the alliance. The GMs got involved and put a temp ban on the person who got the BPOs account. And returned to the BPOs to the former owner, who promptly trashed them.
Yah I know this kind of stuff sucks for the people who lost those very expensive items, but it must be said that if the GMs got involved in the same way with other much more famous robberies and or spy jobs (example: GH-SC and the fall of the Imperial Apoc, The disbanding of BoB, the killing of the first Titan to name a few) this game would lose a lot of the rawness that it already has. This is a game where there are no punches pulled. Where only major meta gaming issues are illegal.
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daves dream
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Posted - 2009.08.01 22:58:00 -
[116]
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Yaay
The Aggressors
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Posted - 2009.08.01 23:00:00 -
[117]
I agree 100%, but I've got a much better example of incompetence.
About 5 months ago I petitioned a group for what appeared to be a POS exploit. In the petition, I listed the corp, Linked the system, and put the planet/moon where it happened.
I recieved a reply back from a GM stating thanks for the information, but in order to help you we need the following information:
Planet moon Type of exploit corp holding the moon and system location.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Vuk Lau
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Posted - 2009.08.01 23:08:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Yaay I agree 100%, but I've got a much better example of incompetence.
About 5 months ago I petitioned a group for what appeared to be a POS exploit. In the petition, I listed the corp, Linked the system, and put the planet/moon where it happened.
I recieved a reply back from a GM stating thanks for the information, but in order to help you we need the following information:
Planet moon Type of exploit corp holding the moon and system location.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Pure win
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Romlus Jr
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Posted - 2009.08.01 23:13:00 -
[119]
Too often i have had a wtf? reply from a GM who didn't seem to understand the suituation. Support for players is where EvE really falls behind others... we need CCP to do something about it.
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Tearavygh Quillam
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.01 23:14:00 -
[120]
Constructive replies Signature Locked. Please refrain from amending a moderated warning. Zymurgist |
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Xicho
Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.01 23:15:00 -
[121]
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Gotya
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Posted - 2009.08.01 23:16:00 -
[122]
Originally by: AstroBoy1 I'd like to mention there was a time I reported over 20 macro ice miners, linking all of their names so that it would be easy for the GM. None of them ever got banned and they are all still at it today. Fly over to Anatolare in Everyshore and see for yourself. The only response I got was (to summarize) 'we'll look into it, but we can't tell you if we take any action.'
I think CCP stated this problem somewhere that using a macro doesnt modify the game client and you can't see it in the logs. When I am mining myself I also look like a macro miner :P So if apparantly GMs cant see this "fraud" in the logs its hard to ban someone for something you can't proof. And afaik CCP only bans people when they have proof in their serverlogs.
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Mike Takumi
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:17:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Mike Takumi on 01/08/2009 23:22:40 ^^^^I too stay awake for 23 hours a day 7 days a week
It's pretty bad when you have a department that creates multiple multipage threads with not a single good thing said about them at all.
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Zeturi
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:17:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Zeturi on 01/08/2009 23:18:00 When you have ships getting reimbursed for "lag" and others not getting reimbursed for losses due to a bug on CCP's part theres a bit of an issue.
+ support
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Fural
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:24:00 -
[125]
|
Onerous One
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:31:00 -
[126]
|
J3mH4d4r
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:32:00 -
[127]
|
arf 1
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:33:00 -
[128]
|
Marzzola
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:38:00 -
[129]
|
BlackMail
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:41:00 -
[130]
Need Moar Vuk Lau in your life --------------------------------------- Blackmail Cutting Edge Incorporated All Around Good Guy
|
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Vilth Wiben
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:43:00 -
[131]
|
CBR Superfly
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:45:00 -
[132]
|
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:52:00 -
[133]
The Goonswarm Titan theft which occured at the start of the year is probably the most glaring example of GM idiocy I can think of (for those of you unaware, a Titan was stolen using a compromised account and transferred to another character, the character flying the titan was banned, but the Titan remained on the banned account and was never returned).
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Draskuul Vrallis
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:52:00 -
[134]
(Insert random "our logs show nothing" comment.)
Seriously, this is the #1 thing that ****es me off. We can even provide videos, have dozens of petitions from a single fight, and still get the near robotic response of "our logs don't show a problem."
If you apparently allow GMs to use their own discretion in such serious matters as alliance names, how could you not allow the same discretion in reimbursements?
At the very least large fleet fights that generate multiple petitions need to be reviewed by someone beyond a senior GM. Problems like these are HUGE issues for EVE, and need more attention than a first-level GM pretending to be a petition auto-closing bot.
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Maestr0
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:55:00 -
[135]
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Avalloc
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:55:00 -
[136]
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Tholak Ra
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:56:00 -
[137]
|
Locus Bey
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:00:00 -
[138]
|
Vayn Baxtor
Oberon Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:09:00 -
[139]
Vayn Honor the Gerbils :D!
Q'PLA! |
Joshua MIstweaver
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:12:00 -
[140]
I think CCP is just beyond a point where eve is finally shifting from a startup small scale thingy into a complex project, technically engaging as well forcing the company to a lot of development and progressive work for not letting the eve-train slow down.
The treatment the eve-players need has grown likewise all those rather technical apects of the game into a complex thing. You can change aspects of balancing and and gameplay without many thoughts if you run a free browser game with mediocre sized playerbase. But you cant just do that without deeper thoughts if you got literally thousands of paying customers of whom a given percentage reacts to even the slightest change in game. My point is that not only the game is evolving but the players do so too. So at this point a real good communication is necessary between developer and and player to satisfy both in the long run.
If CCP gets EVE thru this bottleneck and if the game gets better by all our discussions and brawls both sides win.
So to all GMs and and ppl involved on a workly basis: just because the train rolls doesnt mean you can spare your coal and let the fire within die!
'dang im drunk and senseless i spose
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Aegaeonos
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:14:00 -
[141]
------------------------------------------------ Only the Dead see the End of War -PLATO
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Gideon Goldenbelly
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:20:00 -
[142]
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Yuki YokaiYasha
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:20:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Yuki YokaiYasha on 02/08/2009 00:20:35
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Quordan
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:27:00 -
[144]
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GowanIV
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:31:00 -
[145]
|
Arch Ville
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:32:00 -
[146]
|
Zers
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:35:00 -
[147]
this is important, but not nearly as important as the eve forums having a pirate smiley but not a ninja smiley. c'mon guys.
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Ayrion Centare
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:36:00 -
[148]
I support.
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Godfather57104
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:39:00 -
[149]
|
SleepyOSU
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:40:00 -
[150]
|
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Armadaus Baldwin
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:42:00 -
[151]
I have nothing to witty to say.
In honor of 02-05-09, and our new Goon Overlords.
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Tekai Foo
German Kings Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 01:12:00 -
[152]
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DerHund Erste
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 01:19:00 -
[153]
The whole "our logs don't show ..." line is ridiculous. The only way this could be true would be if they had absolutely no activity logging of any sort.
The problem is that the GMs will not reply back with any concrete information. No list of events tracked, no list of events that are logged and reimbursable, nothing. It's not a hard task to extract information from the archived log files around a given timeframe. I've got to believe that there's timestamp/who/what/where/action information that could easily be given in reply.
Is the vagueness a cover for something embarrassing? I've never seen sincere people ever reply without sharable, concrete facts to back up there findings.
- DerHund |
Andrast3
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 01:27:00 -
[154]
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Plague Black
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 01:47:00 -
[155]
|
Matata Hakuna
4S Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 01:48:00 -
[156]
|
Shinma Apollo
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 02:03:00 -
[157]
Not having to pre-escalate my petitions would be nice.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Let's not go near moderation discussion.
However, if the excuse involved role-playing Zorro, this did get full marks for creativity
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sajberk
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 02:14:00 -
[158]
|
Bruha Downs
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 02:26:00 -
[159]
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Ifni Zen
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 02:28:00 -
[160]
---- rawr |
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Yaay
The Aggressors
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 02:35:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Yaay on 02/08/2009 02:35:39
Originally by: Vuk Lau
Originally by: Yaay I agree 100%, but I've got a much better example of incompetence.
About 5 months ago I petitioned a group for what appeared to be a POS exploit. In the petition, I listed the corp, Linked the system, and put the planet/moon where it happened.
I recieved a reply back from a GM stating thanks for the information, but in order to help you we need the following information:
Planet moon Type of exploit corp holding the moon and system location.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Pure win
What's sad is, I have about 20 other stories that compare to that instance. And more still that are lesser degrees of incompetence.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
KracKaTinny
Macabre Votum
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 03:00:00 -
[162]
Edited by: KracKaTinny on 02/08/2009 03:02:32 Even though it is shocking, it is kinda cute how a big company has such a 'backyarder' approach to dealing with their customers. Likely it is a reflection of a company run by nerds, who do not have professionals from customer service industries working there.
"It would be much easier to run this company without customers" A quote from the CEO of Australia's biggest retail outlet. His concern was controlling the logistics of his stock levels, and waiting on customers to buy goods was really inconvenient. CCP gives off the same feeling to its customers, we are just an inconvenience to them. I know it would be much easier to keep the servers up and running without us logging in.
Most of us here love this game. Amazing Internet spaceships, awesome stuff. Running a research department to observer your competition will improve the game experience. What do other MMOs do? How do they handle customer service? How do they deal with in game disconnects?
Yes Eve is a harsh place to live. Every step of the way is fraught with danger. Every step of the way. CSPA charges, what is that in the game for? Why is it there? CCP griefs it's customers in every way imaginable. The harsh environment is part of the appeal, it is not for noobs. However, being told that the 'logs do not show anything' is not part of game play. At the very least, it is poor log design by CCP, and in a product that is as mature as Eve, that basic component should work properly.
And do not get me started on the Eve instruction guide.
Eve addicts will keep logging in, new subscribers will be disappointed and leave when CCP fails, and makes their in-game life unnecessarily disappointing. Getting, and giving, help is hard in a global game. Language barriers, understanding of game mechanics, griefers, people scamming GMs, there is a lot of issues to deal with. Other MMOs handle it fine. Anything to improve the interaction between customers and CCP is totally supported by me.
Regards, KracKaTinny
btw, thanks for a great game, keep up the WIN!
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cyberdistortion
Macabre Votum
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 03:10:00 -
[163]
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 03:19:00 -
[164]
hehe, check out my recent experience with a GM...
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1134317
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BMC DECON
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 03:25:00 -
[165]
|
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 03:25:00 -
[166]
|
Folikar
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 03:34:00 -
[167]
|
Lord EmBra
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 03:51:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Lord EmBra on 02/08/2009 03:52:13 Couldn't have said it better myself. I stopped sending in petitions a long time ago. Doing it just feels so pointless because the GMs doesn't take them seriously anyway.
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Inflatable Lovedoll
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 03:51:00 -
[169]
This seems like a fine idea.
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Kraknar
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 03:56:00 -
[170]
|
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Tempest Wind
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 04:04:00 -
[171]
I couldnt agree more with what you are saying.
I've totally lost faith in Eve GMs. Opening a petition for reimbursement is useless because it doesnt even seem like they know how game mechanics work in the first place so they'll just reject your reimbursement almost before reading it. I dont even petition anymore because of how helpless the GMs are.
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Tasha Voronina
Caldari Navy Reserve Force
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 04:09:00 -
[172]
--- Sig will be updated shortly |
sinsation
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 04:14:00 -
[173]
|
Mashashige
Eternal Perseverance Flight School
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 04:39:00 -
[174]
Supported. Awesome game, worst consumer care ever - and creating a "CSM" to make us feel like our issues are being dealt with is just a ****ing joke.
And the funny thing is, it doesn't start or end with GMs. For one, we have forum mods so jacked up on crack that they seem to lock all the worthy thread, and spend more time monitoring CAOD (troll fest?) rather than acctually doing their jobs.
EVE needs a complete overhaul (and possible replacement) of its GM/MODS/ETC crew, cause atm they fail, and hard.
(sorry if I sound harsh, but when 90% of the people I know ingame dont petition or use the forums cause they know it wont make a licking difference, even if it was CCPs obvious fault.) =======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |
Zord Caller
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 04:39:00 -
[175]
|
Lank Forman
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 04:40:00 -
[176]
|
Mirax Wessiri
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 05:01:00 -
[177]
|
Soul Raven
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 05:05:00 -
[178]
Transparency is the key àà
|
Asguard117
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 05:14:00 -
[179]
|
nox9wyrm
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 05:46:00 -
[180]
|
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Tamtel Skreej
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 06:19:00 -
[181]
|
Clam Spunj
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 06:22:00 -
[182]
|
CrazyWombat
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 06:29:00 -
[183]
ONLY THE DEAD HAVE SEEN THE END OF WAR [PLATO] |
EvilDesire
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 06:30:00 -
[184]
|
WarSears
Minmatar Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 06:30:00 -
[185]
|
DirtyMongrel
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 06:31:00 -
[186]
|
GothSnatch
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 06:32:00 -
[187]
|
angeleyess
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 06:38:00 -
[188]
-Angeleyess- CEI - RZR |
deadmaus
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 06:56:00 -
[189]
|
Steely Dhan
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 06:56:00 -
[190]
|
|
Mexbrutor
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 06:57:00 -
[191]
|
OwlManAtt
Yasashii Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 07:02:00 -
[192]
Nanve GMs?
EVE doesn't have a grid! m0o cannot be exploiting the game that way because it doesn't work like that!
(Wait? It does? Oh #*&@...) --- Owl |
Migitis
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 07:07:00 -
[193]
|
Trillian Mcmillan
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 07:09:00 -
[194]
|
Vrana
Cry Me A River Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 07:10:00 -
[195]
|
Maegashira
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 07:13:00 -
[196]
+
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Blazde
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 07:16:00 -
[197]
I'll paste my 'How did we do?' reply from my last petition when I was overbilled, it sums up my views:
Quote: Same deal as usual, it just seems like 50% of GMs try to fob off petitions hoping you'll give up. Your incentives/rewards to GMs are obviously wrong. It always feels like a game of attrition. Me: the unpaid customer trying in vain to resolve my issue and spending vastly more time than neccesary vs the GM: paid to try and get rid of me. It ain't customer service I'm afraid and it'a a tragedy such a legendary game is lumbered which this.
Update: Then you get a good GM and it goes well. You could probably fire the useless half of your GMs, reduce costs, with no reduction in time to resolve issues (since they don't resolve but just wind us up) and greatly increase customer satisfaction.
For me this wasn't a time critical issue but it was frustrating to waste my time restating the case.
_
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Skallebank
Minmatar Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 07:22:00 -
[198]
supported.
My grammer and spelling arn't perfect,.deal with it. |
karttoon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 07:46:00 -
[199]
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 08:12:00 -
[200]
Edited by: Malcanis on 02/08/2009 08:15:02 I have to say that on the few occasions that I personally have had dealings with the GMs, they have been prompt, courteous and efficient. However I have heard some pretty sad stories from people I trust about inconsistent or flat out incomprehensible rulings.
Given that, it's pretty much a no-brainer that more understanding and experience of the game - the extremely complex, technically advanced, highly competitive game - they're ruling on is a good thing.
It would also be nice to have some public policies or guidelines. A "GM Wiki", if you will, of decisions and precedents, that they could refer you to. This can be updated as and when when the rules change, so you don't need to worry about binding yourself.
In all fairness it should also be said that very many eve players have little knowledge (or regard) for the rules either, and I hear a lot of complaints about GMs that make me think "no, duh?". Most 'griefing' and 'reimbursement' complaints I hear of fall into this category.
(All the more reason for the wiki tbh.)
|
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Qdlaty
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 08:17:00 -
[201]
supported
|
Takeshi Nuwen
The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 08:27:00 -
[202]
|
dtbutch
Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 08:34:00 -
[203]
|
Ninninx Jaasii
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 08:41:00 -
[204]
/Signed
Having to explain game mechanics when in contact with some "GM's" create trust.
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Gritstone
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 08:42:00 -
[205]
|
Subotaj
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 08:57:00 -
[206]
|
Jack Nuddels
Congregatio Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:03:00 -
[207]
|
Athenogorras
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:08:00 -
[208]
I got your back on this one Vuk
|
Doomed Predator
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:13:00 -
[209]
The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again |
Tazerz
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:16:00 -
[210]
Supported
|
|
Beast pilot
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:21:00 -
[211]
|
Cerys Magente
Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:28:00 -
[212]
Supported |
Mysthique
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:37:00 -
[213]
|
Molovova
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:37:00 -
[214]
|
QuarteDeLouis
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:38:00 -
[215]
disable CUT & PASTE for GM answers if petition is classified as bug - GM should forward it to bug team - not tell player to file a bug report
|
orange lotus
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:38:00 -
[216]
|
Lizard Skin
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:42:00 -
[217]
|
KaRa DaVuT
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:52:00 -
[218]
|
Bibbleibble
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 10:17:00 -
[219]
________________________________________________ For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (Now with added summary!) |
Illoua
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 10:19:00 -
[220]
Supported
|
|
Shoog
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 10:23:00 -
[221]
I am simply for fixing the "Our logs don't show anything" bull****.
If your logs are so unreliable. Invest in a new method. Too many times i have petitioned legitimate losses or queries and all I get is "OUR LOGS DONT SHOW.. BLAH BLAH BLAH" Not good enough.!!!!
|
ElrondMD
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 10:27:00 -
[222]
A petition shouldn't be an exercise in having your intelligence insulted.
|
Carcinogenicity
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 10:33:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Lord EmBra Edited by: Lord EmBra on 02/08/2009 03:52:13 Couldn't have said it better myself. I stopped sending in petitions a long time ago. Doing it just feels so pointless because the GMs doesn't take them seriously anyway.
Another great one is when you petition a system that you know is going to have 1000+ people a few hours before downtime, and the GM response you get is "You need a director to use the application we cant help you". When you try to tell them theres no director on atm which is why your petitioning they just tell you tough ****. Or when they claim its reinforced and the node lags out at 500 people
|
Bloody Nyo
Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 10:48:00 -
[224]
|
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 10:50:00 -
[225]
Vuk, I love ya man, but this could easily have been done better.
I see that you point out that the GM department ****s up a lot. You pull out one of the better examples from this year, and yeah, that was a ****up.
You also mention IA, which you have basically no idea what has been doing. How do we know if GMs aren't getting warnings for their ****ups? Fact is that we don't.
You are pointing out a problem, which is communication. But you are trying to make it into an issue which you think the CSM can solve.
How are you going to approach CCP about this, without making the CSM into seeming like a bunch of bitter people who were told that the logs shows nothing?
|
Doc Zid
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 10:51:00 -
[226]
|
DiMage
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 10:58:00 -
[227]
null[url=http://www.razor-eve.org/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=3231] [/url] |
Butternut Squash
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 11:01:00 -
[228]
Originally by: LaVista Vista How are you going to approach CCP about this, without making the CSM into seeming like a bunch of bitter people who were told that the logs shows nothing?
But is that not exactly the point?
The total uselessness of the log files affect every singe one of us ... and yes we are all bitter, some deal with it, some go emo, some go emoragequit ... but I just wonder if any player reading this has not felt bitterly disappointed due to a petition being handled in a manner that the customer thought was unjust.
I am jealous of my wife ... she already has a titan :) |
KOnterfei
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 11:06:00 -
[229]
|
Haku Cabal
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 11:16:00 -
[230]
Edited by: Haku Cabal on 02/08/2009 11:17:26
|
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Naomi Wildfire
Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 11:16:00 -
[231]
I once asked a GM what their logs would show to them, so i could filter the issues myself an decrease the work on the GMs and the answer to it was: "Not the same as your logs".
Wildfire - New Horizons |
VictorSteiner
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 11:36:00 -
[232]
knowledge is the only thing that doubles by shareing! |
firehelix
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 11:41:00 -
[233]
|
Jim Pooley
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 11:44:00 -
[234]
Couldn't agree more. I hope you're not letting the devs off the hook too, they are getting more and more detached from reality these days to the point you wonder if thay actually still play the game. ------------------------------------------
Mines a Pint of Large
|
Fahrq
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 11:54:00 -
[235]
|
maya ibuki2
THORN Syndicate Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:02:00 -
[236]
supported. for me the problem is definitly the low level gm's; they are utterly useless.
i remember one particularly amusing incident for me. i logged off after having some pewpew with bob/tri in one system. an hour later my ship was destroyed by tri in another system. a certain gm (a uniquely useless example imo, lamentably named for one of those religious holidays in febuary) decided that the above was perfectly within game mechanics. the next normal gm (after i cussed that one out) said it was wierd, but were not reimbursing. i escalated and a senior gave me my ship back in about an hour <3 0ok! |
Kim Wilde
Covenant
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:05:00 -
[237]
|
javer
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:05:00 -
[238]
-------------------------------------------- Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience. |
Damaclease
Covenant
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:06:00 -
[239]
|
Paranid
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:10:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Paranid on 02/08/2009 12:16:44 Edited by: Paranid on 02/08/2009 12:09:49
--------------------------------------------
Light Travels faster then sound,
Thats why some people appear bright untill you hear them speak. |
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De Vito
Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:10:00 -
[241]
Edited by: De Vito on 02/08/2009 12:10:56
|
Mysterious Deteis
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:26:00 -
[242]
|
Valuv
Dark Ascendancy The Council.
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:44:00 -
[243]
|
Xavius IV
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:50:00 -
[244]
|
Thodoros
Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:53:00 -
[245]
Edited by: Thodoros on 02/08/2009 12:53:44 Sort out the jump clones issues and our skillpoints that we lose. We should be able to be reimbursed on skillpoints and implants regardless if is not on session logs.
|
Yoohan Urac
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:59:00 -
[246]
|
Vampire Bulwei
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:59:00 -
[247]
Free-Space-Ranger
|
Joe Widowmaker
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:59:00 -
[248]
|
Mojo'tom
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 13:06:00 -
[249]
|
Altaree
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 13:17:00 -
[250]
It has gotten to the point that you just auto escalate because you KNOW that the low level GM isn't going to read your petition. Or that is the general impression in the experienced world. There is a major lack of faith in the low level GM population. --Altaree Eve University |
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Xorth Adimus
The Perfect Storm Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 13:21:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Xorth Adimus on 02/08/2009 13:23:19
Quote: - Clear rules and policies (I think there is only policy about reimbursment which is vague and doesnt a mean a **** with äour logs dont show nothingô generic answer) - Proper training of all GMs - IA dept. Actually doing their job and start slaping GM dept for their mistakes
Complete lack of faith, I never bother with GMs when some ingame issues occur as I know they wont read it or deal with it and will send out the generic...
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Aurora Spacefarer
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 13:30:00 -
[252]
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GashaSerb
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 13:41:00 -
[253]
Edited by: GashaSerb on 02/08/2009 13:42:18 vote pro Dont know where is my tumb up
|
indianheart
Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 13:48:00 -
[254]
|
Splithorizon
The Graduates
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 13:58:00 -
[255]
I like this product.
|
sol murgs
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 13:59:00 -
[256]
I have given up on getting any sort of inteligent response from GM's so that I no longer bother to petition anything.
Also, zee logs show nothing.
|
Vuk Lau
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 14:00:00 -
[257]
Edited by: Vuk Lau on 02/08/2009 14:05:12
Originally by: LaVista Vista Vuk, I love ya man, but this could easily have been done better.
I see that you point out that the GM department ****s up a lot. You pull out one of the better examples from this year, and yeah, that was a ****up.
You also mention IA, which you have basically no idea what has been doing. How do we know if GMs aren't getting warnings for their ****ups? Fact is that we don't.
You are pointing out a problem, which is communication. But you are trying to make it into an issue which you think the CSM can solve.
How are you going to approach CCP about this, without making the CSM into seeming like a bunch of bitter people who were told that the logs shows nothing?
Well even if they are getting warning/fines which I am 99% positive they dont, I still dont see any improvement, and I must add that my experience with CCP/GM dept goes back to 4S Corporation name scandal.
I am so said that NDA, TOS, EULA etc. tied my hands, but you cant believe the ammount of GM **** I received in last 12 hours.
Communication is not the problem, problem is that GM dept S.U.C.K. and ofcourse I am not delusional to believe that CSM can use magic wand and solve the problem. I am sure CCP is aware of the issue, but I am also sure they are not aware/or just dont care cause subscriptions are going up of the size of the problem. CSM can (atleast I believe, and thats why I ran for CSM) show them about importance of the issue.
Yes people are whining about the logs, but logs are the least of the problem here.
And for the end, yes I agree that this could be done a much better. If I was not CSM delegate and someone who represent at least my corporation and my alliance this thread would be much much worse (in terms of civilness sp?). Sadly my gametime is severely limited last couple of weeks due to RL stuff so I didnt had much free time to made more detailed and explicit thread on time to meet deadline to raise this issue for Iceland meeting. Also as I said I met many CCP guys and you can see in everyone of them passion about EVE and they really made something unique, the game without any competition. Also the maturity and hospitality they showed towards CSM was nothing but exceptional. But before CSM delegate I am first a customer, and purpose of bringing this issue was to make whole EVE experience better to everyone, both players and CCP.
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Kaito Haakkainen
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 14:11:00 -
[258]
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Dreadmuppet Four
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 14:26:00 -
[259]
|
Lauriers
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 14:27:00 -
[260]
|
|
RedSplat
Heretic Army
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 14:29:00 -
[261]
Edited by: RedSplat on 02/08/2009 14:32:46 Some of the low level GM's are very uninformed.
Worse, a large percentage of them seem to exhibit bias, although this could be the above.
A particular issues lies with Missionrunners successfully petitioning to have missions reset and ships reimbursed when according to CCP policy they should not have such carried out.
Its really rather damning when someone gloats they know a GM and guess what, a few days later something happen that runs contrary to established policy.
Special interest and Knowledge
There is STILL a real problem with players having access to information they shouldn't have.
Recently the AGGRO alliance forums were compromised and it was exposed that they had been informed by someone working for CCP that Motherships were going to be re-designed in the next big patch and a price spike was likely.
More recent still are grumblings about the owner of ScrapHeapChallenge, specifically the banning of individuals from a private forum using knowledge only available to a GM or CCP employee.
EDIT:
It would be nice if IA actually functioned as it should, they have a reputation for ignoring anything that isnt going to make a splash when they commit it to the bin.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
|
Wap Pie
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 14:31:00 -
[262]
-
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Shammyra
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 14:53:00 -
[263]
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ChinaWillGrowLarger
Heretic Command
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 15:05:00 -
[264]
|
x psy
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 15:10:00 -
[265]
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FlyingSpoonyBadger
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 15:11:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Altaree It has gotten to the point that you just auto escalate because you KNOW that the low level GM isn't going to read your petition. Or that is the general impression in the experienced world. There is a major lack of faith in the low level GM population.
IMO this is definitely true. I haven't been playing as long as some of you guys but hell I've seen a lot of bad calls on the part of the GM's some of which have lead to long term players quitting the game which is the saddest of all things as player retention should surely be a high priority.
I have seen two major issues one where a player I know took a screen shot of him in his ship 15 minutes (by screen clock) after he was podded to offer supporting evidence of the fact he had no control over his ship loss and was then told he faked the image to get a reimbursement.
Second of someone deliberately manipulating the character bazaar to make it look like someone had accepted isk and then not transferred a character. The victim was banned from the game and then when the GM's actually realized that the post was an edited one when his account was reinstated he had 6 billion isk negatively adjusted from his account. Nothing was done to the player who faked the post on the bazaar and the victim was never given the isk back.
There are some awesome GM's who clearly take a lot of pride in their work but to be honest the "auto escalate my complaint" attitude of many players is well founded and based on recieving one too many copy paste responses.
EVE is too good a game to let this continue.
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Elminsters Hat
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 15:12:00 -
[267]
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Rangar
The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 15:13:00 -
[268]
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IvorBigGun
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 15:21:00 -
[269]
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Drakona Malchon
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 15:22:00 -
[270]
Combat Op Director Free-Space-Ranger
Corporate Homepage onlinegaming since 1998
|
|
Konner Kyle
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 15:43:00 -
[271]
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Throrris
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 15:45:00 -
[272]
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Nefertari
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 16:04:00 -
[273]
|
xMada Fuka
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 16:09:00 -
[274]
Thums up . GM have to get their act together.
|
viliar
Neo Spartans
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 16:12:00 -
[275]
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Larkonis Trassler
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 16:21:00 -
[276]
In my time I have had some petitions answered by very competant GMs but by the same token had some answered by GMs who's grasp of both the English language and game mechanics was pretty poor. There certainly needs to be more training and more oversight.
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Aeriana Rose
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 16:39:00 -
[277]
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Hellspawnz
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 16:39:00 -
[278]
|
Evenfall Phoenix
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 16:39:00 -
[279]
|
etgfrogs
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 17:05:00 -
[280]
i've only seen 1 incident with reinforcing a system that was going to have some 600-700 people where there was an issue but that was back in 2007 so it might not apply still, where both sides had filled petition, but people were lagging out at 200 or so, the main reason i suspect why it was ignored because they were less known alliances(dark matter coalition and pure) FROG! |
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William Charmer
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 18:41:00 -
[281]
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leboe
Dark Star Cartel
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 19:06:00 -
[282]
supporting
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Kiora Evon
The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 19:32:00 -
[283]
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Razoq
Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 20:04:00 -
[284]
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Matarka
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 20:24:00 -
[285]
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HorteX
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 20:25:00 -
[286]
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fowshoow
cozy.
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 20:30:00 -
[287]
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Leod Athas
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 20:31:00 -
[288]
|
StallioN SDK1
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 20:37:00 -
[289]
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Slave 2739FKZ
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 21:07:00 -
[290]
|
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ZoXoR
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 21:21:00 -
[291]
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Crudamus
Cynosural United Nuclear Technical Scientists RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 23:54:00 -
[292]
I have contributed to the work load with my shares of potitines. Then again, 95% of those are becuase of failed game mechanics between patches and creatings of exploits/uknown bugs.
The big problem is when GM's have no idea how most the game mechianics should work, that or they don't care to read the potition and are so overloaded they skip the point. It's a joke to get these automated responses, expecialy when I have got many responses that are not even pointed to the issues that is in question.
The best part is there is so many grey areas with the rules and reimbursment, that just based off the GM's mood or relationship to the player can determin the outcome of the potition.
BEST YET! When the denial of responsability by the CCP team to not acknowlage unkown bugs as a right to entitlment for reimbursment. If somthing is clearly broken and not normal without having any published note changes then CCP should take full responsability of falt.
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Riddick I
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 00:20:00 -
[293]
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takeaway1031
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 01:16:00 -
[294]
CCP...petitions,,, heck I'm ready to petition the petitions, oh wait did that already to
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Andraste Enigma
The Graduates
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 02:48:00 -
[295]
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Caladain Barton
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 04:27:00 -
[296]
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Vidar Snow
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 04:28:00 -
[297]
Agree! |
floridajay
Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 04:32:00 -
[298]
|
Ayra Schwarzfeld
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 04:42:00 -
[299]
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Muvas Vaga
Fat J Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 04:44:00 -
[300]
|
|
Benzene8
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 04:50:00 -
[301]
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Mjraa
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 05:00:00 -
[302]
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Celestrias
Mid Knights Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 05:05:00 -
[303]
Tbh, the best response ((Sarcasm)) I've ever had from a GM on a petition is that a plex can escalate to only let you be..
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Friday Dillinja
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 05:23:00 -
[304]
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Amon Duul
Doom Guard Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 05:31:00 -
[305]
|
Staplerfahrer Klaus
Gamma Haulers Against Drama GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 06:02:00 -
[306]
____________________
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Fire Eriwerif
Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 06:04:00 -
[307]
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Nigerian Prince
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 06:05:00 -
[308]
|
Swift Machine
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 06:11:00 -
[309]
Edited by: Swift Machine on 03/08/2009 06:11:51 Right on!
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Ap0ll0n
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 06:55:00 -
[310]
|
|
Vonetta
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 06:57:00 -
[311]
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Serotta Ortot
Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 06:57:00 -
[312]
|
Escobar Noreaga
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 07:22:00 -
[313]
________
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 07:35:00 -
[314]
They could save themselves a lot of workload by not responding asking for information contained in the original petition aka READ THE FRIGGEN THING. Training/game experience should also be stressed much more strongly in the orientation/hiring phase because many GM's clearly do not grasp basic game mechanics.
And i've even had a petition *time out* due to lack of GM response after they sent me an automated one asking for info contained in original. That's like, weeks without it being looked at.
tl;dr supported. ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Piccalo
SUNDERING Zenith Affinity
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 07:37:00 -
[315]
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Andrt
Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 07:41:00 -
[316]
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Ugljesa
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 07:42:00 -
[317]
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Almighty Malachi
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 07:50:00 -
[318]
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Liyrn
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 07:51:00 -
[319]
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Muncitor Calificat
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 07:52:00 -
[320]
|
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Wasea
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 07:52:00 -
[321]
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Xavier de'Lomas
Mercurialis Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 07:54:00 -
[322]
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Darkmind
Mercurialis Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 07:54:00 -
[323]
Edited by: Darkmind on 03/08/2009 07:53:58
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SudoFX
Demon Theory Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 07:54:00 -
[324]
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Calendril
Doom Guard Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 08:12:00 -
[325]
*** Connection Interrupted *** |
Ceriaus
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 08:35:00 -
[326]
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Jorca Focker
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 08:36:00 -
[327]
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Lee Dalton
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 08:45:00 -
[328]
*** You're only as good as your last fight. |
Cruel Fox
Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 08:51:00 -
[329]
GMS r pros Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Saint |
chromez0r
Roving Guns Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 08:57:00 -
[330]
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Syninder
Kuhri Innovations
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Posted - 2009.08.03 08:58:00 -
[331]
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 09:41:00 -
[332]
Do you think this thread might indicate a problem?
Be a good idea to fix this before much else CCP. A support crash could well equal a subscription crash.
|
Information Broker
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 09:43:00 -
[333]
Think WoW GM's will take care of Eve-Related stuffz, they're half competent
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 09:57:00 -
[334]
Originally by: Information Broker Think WoW GM's will take care of Eve-Related stuffz, they're half competent
They actually have quite a decent training system in-place for GMs right? Remember seeing something about their support on TV.
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Daveincius
Psykotic Meat Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 10:00:00 -
[335]
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framolia
Mercurialis Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 10:10:00 -
[336]
"My opinions are my own and not of my corp or alliance!" |
Cat silth
Divine Power.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 10:18:00 -
[337]
signed Fish Fish Fish |
Sethile
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 10:33:00 -
[338]
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 10:52:00 -
[339]
Important link. Nuff' said.
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Firvain
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 11:05:00 -
[340]
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Wraith101
Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 11:15:00 -
[341]
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Taeyn
Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 11:46:00 -
[342]
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Lt George
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Posted - 2009.08.03 12:42:00 -
[343]
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Tailla
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 13:02:00 -
[344]
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JasonKuehn
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 14:11:00 -
[345]
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Ataman Sirko
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 14:14:00 -
[346]
Edited by: Ataman Sirko on 03/08/2009 14:14:28
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5agaydachniy
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 14:15:00 -
[347]
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6onta
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 14:17:00 -
[348]
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Nikodiemus
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 14:22:00 -
[349]
Let us not forget multiple GM not knowing POS sov mechanics when an issue was petitioned by WI. Another good example of GM lacking basic knowledge there.
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DaiTengu
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 15:19:00 -
[350]
Awhile back we had an obvious glitch in the game where a POS moved from one moon to another moon, and was inside another POS. Neither POS could be targeted. Should someone have wanted to come along and siege that system, we would have been petitioned for an exploit.
It took them *3 WEEKS* to even respond to my petition about it. After about 2 weeks I filed a stuck petition, and a GM, who was actually competent, came in and destroyed the bugged POS for us. It only took 5 minutes.
The sheer incompetence in most of the GM staff is absolutely astounding. only *1* GM has ever been useful, helpful, and knowledgable, and I breathe a huge sigh of relief when they wind up answering my petitions.
Something really needs to be done about this. This is more important than the sov overhaul, or even fixing MY MOTHERSHIP.
|
|
Pac man05
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 15:37:00 -
[351]
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Moon Dogg
Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 16:09:00 -
[352]
I just read through the previous pages, and lamented the lack of constructive suggestions. Then I saw that LaVista Vista had the same view. So, without further ado, lets think about what can be done to improve things for the front-line GM.
First, let me say that - despite me being a 2006 character - I lack the indepth knowledge of Eve mechanics to ever serve as a GM. So if I say something stupid here, I blame that :)
1) GM training courses on game-specific areas. For example: a. PvP b. Industry/Mining c. POS d. Sovereignty, Corporations & Alliances e. Factional Warfare f. Wormholes g. Missions/complexes h. Skills i. Standings j. Reimbursement k. Policies & Rules l. Billing & Account m. Markets The idea being that a front-line GM candidate would have to take one or more of courses like the ones listed above. Maybe they are a week in length, maybe less (3 days?). Content is prepared by senior GMs, and is designed around what a front-liner should know to head off a lot of the common incoming petitions for that subject area. To get into that class, a person would have to demonstrate appropriate knowledge on that subject.
Candidates could take more than one course, and - provided they pass a test - would then receive petitions based on what areas they have been deemed competent in. CCP would then have a fair idea of how many GMs were in each area, and could up the number of GMs in areas where there are heavier petition loads.
One of the things that this doesn't take into account is how the petitions are distributed (which I assume is automated).
2) Stress the in-game Help Channel. We have one of these? I had forgotten or wasn't really aware. Is it staffed by competent, CCP-trained individuals, or is this a place populated by well-meaning (or not?) pod pilots who may or may not be knowledgeable in the game?
Regardless, if the Help Channel is meant to be a true first line to head off needless or simple-to-resolve petitions, then CCP needs to make sure that it is populated by people that can answer questions correctly AND that the pilot base is aware of it. Promo the Help Channel more in news postings, messages above the login area, etc.
3) Don't file petitions on minor isues and gameplay questions. Fine. CCP should provide an outline of what those things are.
4) Submitting the petition - give us a template. Yes, we all know that "ze logs, they show notheenk". What information will a GM need? Should there be fields created in the petition that, if left unfilled, will not allow the petition to be filed? Will that just result in pilots putting garbage into the field so their narratives gets submitted - possibly. Probably :) But if we know what basic things they need to know, many of us will provide them. We WANT our petitions to succeed, afterall.
5) Courtesy in the petition process. I am talking about the language used by the submitting pilot here, not the GM responses. I have, in my petitions, never failed to use polite language to frame my problem and ask for assistance. Remember, it isn't their fault that the issue affecting you occured, and you want them to start their interaction with you on a positive note, rather than on a negative one resulting from language that attacks or deingrates the GM and/or CCP.
(continued on next post)
*********************************** "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..." |
Moon Dogg
Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.03 16:11:00 -
[353]
(continued from my last post)
6) GM Incentives I am speaking from ignorance here, so bear with me. Is there any type of incentive program in place for GMs? For example, if you clear 80% of the petitons assigned to you in a quarter without bumping up to a more senior GM, and with a positive satisfaction rating, then that person gets a PLEX from CCP. Or a ship model. Or maybe a snazzy T-shirt! I have to assume that CCP has mechanisms in place to gather customer satisfaction data related to petitions, so develop a metric that, if met by GMs, rewards them for their hard work.
I used to do work for Wizards of the Coast (and TSR, Inc. before them), and when we submitted our project, the reward was X dollars in Dungeons & Dragons product. If I look at the amount of time I put into the projects I did for them, and compared them to the dollar value of the product I received, then my hourly wage was probably in the $2/hour range, but I can tell you that I was happy as could be in getting that package full of D&D stuff!
7) GM Consequences If you provide incentives for positive results, there must be consequences for those that aren't getting them. That might mean a review of GM responses to see if it is a matter of professionalism, a lack of knowledge, failure to fully read and understand the petition, etc. Or maybe it is just that the player didn't get their way and did't rate the GM well as punishment.
Bottom line: institute a review process based on data collected from petitioners. Poor performance is either corrected, results in removal from the category of petition where the performance is lacking, or results in termination from the GM program.
8) The dreaded "English Barrier". English is how most of the business of Eve is conducted, although a significant number of pilots don't speak it. I realize there are options out there (the German support option, for example), but for many, submitting a petition in understandable English is dificult at best. I worry that being unable to clearly impart what the issue is on the player's behalf might result in petitions that are very difficult to address and close positively on the GMs behalf.
I don't have any suggestion on how to address this, but I think it is worth the mention.
These are just some ideas that I had floating around regarding the subject. Hopefully the CSM can take these, if they are worthwhile, or develop their own suggestions that would help to improve the customer service side of the game.
*********************************** "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..." |
D'ceet
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 16:33:00 -
[354]
every time i file a petition, i get the same GM, and it feels like im talking to a robot who doesnt even read my petition, but just copies and pastes whatever fits best.
i fully agree that low level GM's need more training. Please re-size it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes.Applebabe |
Talinthi
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Posted - 2009.08.03 16:34:00 -
[355]
Some great points MoonDog I support the idea of better training gm's, but I'm sure theres already some sort of training scheme in place whether its all inclusive enough or effective enough may be whats in question here. As that is an internal ccp matter I dont know what kind of effect this would have on them but i think theyd start to get the hint after 12 pages and im sure the posts arent done stacking up
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Verri Skerri
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Posted - 2009.08.03 16:39:00 -
[356]
Strongly agree with MoonDog
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ColdCase
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Posted - 2009.08.03 17:50:00 -
[357]
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Maximus Meridas
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
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Posted - 2009.08.03 17:52:00 -
[358]
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PlasticWrap
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Posted - 2009.08.03 18:06:00 -
[359]
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Cidrolin
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Posted - 2009.08.03 18:09:00 -
[360]
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pyklet uk1
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.03 18:12:00 -
[361]
______________________________
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PeveS
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.03 18:36:00 -
[362]
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postal dude
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.03 18:43:00 -
[363]
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mindblow
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 18:47:00 -
[364]
Sig removed, lacks EVE related content. And it scared the bejesus out of me - Mitnal
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Misaki Yuuko
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Posted - 2009.08.03 18:48:00 -
[365]
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Isayo Arkindra
Mercurialis Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 18:48:00 -
[366]
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Silk75
Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 18:55:00 -
[367]
/Signed.
Conflicting definitions of sovereignity mechanics are a nightmare to sort out when you get different answers to differing petitions. Not confidence building.
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F90OEX
F9X Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 18:57:00 -
[368]
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klassasin
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Posted - 2009.08.03 19:15:00 -
[369]
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Quacka
Mercurialis Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 19:18:00 -
[370]
.
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Joao Duarte
Fat J
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Posted - 2009.08.03 19:44:00 -
[371]
Edited by: Joao Duarte on 03/08/2009 19:44:44
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Victor Mason
Mercurialis Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 20:13:00 -
[372]
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Majin82
The 5th Freedom Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 20:39:00 -
[373]
------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns!
Passive Drake For The Win |
Neronious
Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 20:55:00 -
[374]
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Bobbeh
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 22:03:00 -
[375]
support this
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Rochel Hakiri
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.03 22:15:00 -
[376]
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Meno Theaetetus
Mercurialis Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 23:11:00 -
[377]
Agree, from personal experience I have been given incorrect information numerous times relating to serious game play mechanics and rules effecting not only myself but specifically region wide sov mechanics.
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Borun Tal
Virtual Rock Industries
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Posted - 2009.08.03 23:19:00 -
[378]
Just a brief anecdote: I recently posted a petition re: a new station that I was putting up. Fairly simple question, come to find out, but the response I received from a GM was so far off target as to make me think he/she didn't even read the petition. The answer had absolutely ZERO to do with what I asked. I've decided not to petition anything anymore. When I DO get an answer, I just can't trust it.
I support real training for GMs, and installation of GMs that ONLY play the game regularly and have substantial experience in the area they are supporting (that includes my support for using real developers as GMs, and not just "support" guys).
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Hawthniel
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Posted - 2009.08.03 23:46:00 -
[379]
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Wynstone
Mercurialis Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 00:12:00 -
[380]
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Dapto
Dissolution Of Eternity
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Posted - 2009.08.04 00:49:00 -
[381]
Given up petitioning as it serves no point. TBH I think its CCP's policy for GM's to be this way so they never have to do jack. Dapto |
Agam Pecuniam
Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 01:06:00 -
[382]
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Lilkor
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 02:14:00 -
[383]
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EmraldFire
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 02:59:00 -
[384]
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Crow Researcher
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Posted - 2009.08.04 04:22:00 -
[385]
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mazzilliu
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Posted - 2009.08.04 04:32:00 -
[386]
there's a lot of player support for some sort of reform in the GM system. i totally support this and i think that the issue needs a high priority in all the CSM issues we submit for this term.
MAZZILLIU 2009. CHANGE I CAN IMPOSE ON YOU. |
The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.04 05:28:00 -
[387]
supported ...
I held off cuz i saw it was already on page 13 and thought this was an old thread and i missed the boat
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
GeneticFailure
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.04 05:41:00 -
[388]
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General Paton
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Posted - 2009.08.04 05:51:00 -
[389]
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Goa'uld Imhotep
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Posted - 2009.08.04 07:55:00 -
[390]
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psykiller
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.04 08:01:00 -
[391]
=============================================== Strenght and Honour. Heart of one, strenght of many. Glory and Honour in death. Proud to be RAWR |
Arzuanne
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 09:30:00 -
[392]
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sorrotus
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.04 11:30:00 -
[393]
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Dee Tee
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.04 11:51:00 -
[394]
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Amara Jade
Fat J
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:02:00 -
[395]
Hell yea i'll support this. I hate the "our logs show nothing". Half the crap responses are unprofessional and insulting. Things that would get anyone else FIRED from thier jobs! If they hate thier jobs so much they should go back to working at Taco Bell!
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Roastedpot
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:18:00 -
[396]
\o/
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Too Dangerous
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:32:00 -
[397]
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ovarond
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Posted - 2009.08.04 14:32:00 -
[398]
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iP0D
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Posted - 2009.08.04 15:35:00 -
[399]
This topic really should get closed since there is a new and revised thread with much less emo and far better argumentation, supported by the original poster of this thread.
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:06:00 -
[400]
Locking thread to consolidate threads. Please continue discussion in this thread.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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