Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance Flight School
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 13:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Mashashige on 03/08/2009 13:21:27 Edited by: Mashashige on 03/08/2009 13:19:37 This thread is a more in depth and less "whiney" look at the thread by Vuk Lau (located here) - the revised version is aiming to be a bit more constructive and meaningful, as was mentioned/recommended by Lavista Vista.
TL;DR version of prior thread (in BPs):
- GM team has lack of knowledge regarding game-mechanics
- Low-level GM's are unprofessional and usually only warrant an escalation to a more senior GM to solve the issue
- General consensus that GM team is not reading petitions / annoying at "cut+paste" type answers, mostly regarding the "logs show nothing" type answer
- Feeling that GM team is corrupt/incompetent due to issues such as GM's being biased / making decisions along the BOBR name change issue
- Disorganization of GM team, especially regarding the "reimbursement policy" or lack thereof
- The long time it takes for petitions to get answered
- Players loss of trust in the support/GM system
(I think the rest of the points raised are reiterations of the above issues, but please post if you feel I missed something)
Suggested solutions:
- Revisiting the GM hiring policy, including a test (?) for game mechanics knowledge
- Increasing GM count in order to reduce stress on each GM, so we get the feeling of being answered by REAL humans and not a C+P machine
- Creation of a new method to monitor game mechanics in which logs actually mean something and not just an "go-away" GM answer
- Creation of a PUBLIC rules and regulations regarding GM do's and dont's, specifically reimbursement.
- House cleanup by IA department (or creation of one if it doesn't exist) and clearing up all the "rotten apples" . Although there is no public T20 yet, I doubt the GM department is fully clean.
(Again, Ill add suggestions as they come from players).
As a general note, CCP has two main issues at hand ATM:
- Lack of a working support for their game
- Total loss of trust in said support system, to the point of which people saying "don't petition it, it won't make a difference anyhow".
IMO, issue #2 is the more serious of the two, since it foreshadows lack of belief in the developers and will lead to people quitting/finding a way to even out the playing field in illegitimate means.
Also, as a side note, I believe that the lack of response from CCP regarding any issues (be it this forum, or the rebalacing issues a bit back, or 101 other things) is concerning. I'm starting to feel (and many with me) that CCP is just BSing caring about our opinions, and is just doing it to control the public annoyance at certain issues in a closed space. So please CCP, get a dev/mod/wtv to respond to the threads - if we (the players) put the time and effort to write and post on those threads, you can at least take the time to formulate an answer. This will allow us regain some of the trust we've lost in the system.
P.S Even though it's 99% Vuk alts, the thread linked above had 315 supports, which IMO indicates clearly how much this IS an issue to the community.
=======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |

Bibbleibble
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 13:23:00 -
[2]
Supporting this one as well. ________________________________________________ For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (Now with added summary!) |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 14:16:00 -
[3]
This is a better rework.
One thing I would like to add is something that could help the GMs, rather than just criticise them:
Specifically, I am talking about penalties for players abusing the petition system.
|

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 14:23:00 -
[4]
It seems the first (maybe even second) GM is actually an FAQ bot.
Had that same person mysteriously know about issues then not know about them on other occasions.
|

maya ibuki2
THORN Syndicate Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 14:37:00 -
[5]
supportin dis also. 0ok! |

Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance Flight School
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 15:41:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Malcanis This is a better rework.
One thing I would like to add is something that could help the GMs, rather than just criticise them:
Specifically, I am talking about penalties for players abusing the petition system.
Sound like a good idea. How would you go about this though? x time between petitions? Rework the petition system so the GMs can notice an abnormal number of petitions from one person / regarding an issue? (could be useful if many people are reporting an isk buyer, and I doubt a system like that is in place)
And what about punishments? Complete x days ban from petitioning? Warning?
And also, how would you determine if someone is abusing the system/ what does it mean to abuse it? (guess if they publish a public rules+regs that would be there). =======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |

Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance Flight School
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 16:46:00 -
[7]
Snatch and grab from home topic:
Originally by: Moon Dogg I just read through the previous pages, and lamented the lack of constructive suggestions. Then I saw that LaVista Vista had the same view. So, without further ado, lets think about what can be done to improve things for the front-line GM.
First, let me say that - despite me being a 2006 character - I lack the indepth knowledge of Eve mechanics to ever serve as a GM. So if I say something stupid here, I blame that :)
1) GM training courses on game-specific areas. For example: a. PvP b. Industry/Mining c. POS d. Sovereignty, Corporations & Alliances e. Factional Warfare f. Wormholes g. Missions/complexes h. Skills i. Standings j. Reimbursement k. Policies & Rules l. Billing & Account m. Markets The idea being that a front-line GM candidate would have to take one or more of courses like the ones listed above. Maybe they are a week in length, maybe less (3 days?). Content is prepared by senior GMs, and is designed around what a front-liner should know to head off a lot of the common incoming petitions for that subject area. To get into that class, a person would have to demonstrate appropriate knowledge on that subject.
Candidates could take more than one course, and - provided they pass a test - would then receive petitions based on what areas they have been deemed competent in. CCP would then have a fair idea of how many GMs were in each area, and could up the number of GMs in areas where there are heavier petition loads.
One of the things that this doesn't take into account is how the petitions are distributed (which I assume is automated).
2) Stress the in-game Help Channel. We have one of these? I had forgotten or wasn't really aware. Is it staffed by competent, CCP-trained individuals, or is this a place populated by well-meaning (or not?) pod pilots who may or may not be knowledgeable in the game?
Regardless, if the Help Channel is meant to be a true first line to head off needless or simple-to-resolve petitions, then CCP needs to make sure that it is populated by people that can answer questions correctly AND that the pilot base is aware of it. Promo the Help Channel more in news postings, messages above the login area, etc.
3) Don't file petitions on minor isues and gameplay questions. Fine. CCP should provide an outline of what those things are.
4) Submitting the petition - give us a template. Yes, we all know that "ze logs, they show notheenk". What information will a GM need? Should there be fields created in the petition that, if left unfilled, will not allow the petition to be filed? Will that just result in pilots putting garbage into the field so their narratives gets submitted - possibly. Probably :) But if we know what basic things they need to know, many of us will provide them. We WANT our petitions to succeed, afterall.
5) Courtesy in the petition process. I am talking about the language used by the submitting pilot here, not the GM responses. I have, in my petitions, never failed to use polite language to frame my problem and ask for assistance. Remember, it isn't their fault that the issue affecting you occured, and you want them to start their interaction with you on a positive note, rather than on a negative one resulting from language that attacks or deingrates the GM and/or CCP.
(continued on next post)
=======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |

Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance Flight School
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 16:46:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Mashashige on 03/08/2009 16:47:21
Originally by: Moon Dogg (continued from my last post)
6) GM Incentives I am speaking from ignorance here, so bear with me. Is there any type of incentive program in place for GMs? For example, if you clear 80% of the petitons assigned to you in a quarter without bumping up to a more senior GM, and with a positive satisfaction rating, then that person gets a PLEX from CCP. Or a ship model. Or maybe a snazzy T-shirt! I have to assume that CCP has mechanisms in place to gather customer satisfaction data related to petitions, so develop a metric that, if met by GMs, rewards them for their hard work.
I used to do work for Wizards of the Coast (and TSR, Inc. before them), and when we submitted our project, the reward was X dollars in Dungeons & Dragons product. If I look at the amount of time I put into the projects I did for them, and compared them to the dollar value of the product I received, then my hourly wage was probably in the $2/hour range, but I can tell you that I was happy as could be in getting that package full of D&D stuff!
7) GM Consequences If you provide incentives for positive results, there must be consequences for those that aren't getting them. That might mean a review of GM responses to see if it is a matter of professionalism, a lack of knowledge, failure to fully read and understand the petition, etc. Or maybe it is just that the player didn't get their way and did't rate the GM well as punishment.
Bottom line: institute a review process based on data collected from petitioners. Poor performance is either corrected, results in removal from the category of petition where the performance is lacking, or results in termination from the GM program.
8) The dreaded "English Barrier". English is how most of the business of Eve is conducted, although a significant number of pilots don't speak it. I realize there are options out there (the German support option, for example), but for many, submitting a petition in understandable English is dificult at best. I worry that being unable to clearly impart what the issue is on the player's behalf might result in petitions that are very difficult to address and close positively on the GMs behalf.
I don't have any suggestion on how to address this, but I think it is worth the mention.
These are just some ideas that I had floating around regarding the subject. Hopefully the CSM can take these, if they are worthwhile, or develop their own suggestions that would help to improve the customer service side of the game.
Awesome stuff Moon Dogg, I'll organize it in the OP later to condense all the ideas. =======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |

Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 16:55:00 -
[9]
No
Perhaps some more hard fast guidelines need to be in place, especially with regards to reimbursement (which should all be but cut out except in the most extreme cases at this point), but for the most part petitions get answered within a timely manner relevant to their importance.
I realize X issue might be an issue to you now, but that is slightly less lower on the service list than say, someone who cannot log in because toon is stuck in limbo. |

Facial Wipe
Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 17:02:00 -
[10]
Supported 
|
|

iP0D
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 17:05:00 -
[11]
I'm pretty sure that if only 10% of the playerbase would think before posting or writing a petition the load on the customer support would go down by quite a lot.
I'm also quite sure that if another 10% of the playerbase would stop writing silly petitions out of a wierd sense of vengeance for refused reimbursements of the past the load on customer support would go down by quite a lot.
Still, I'm also quite sure that a new GM Bible (not just based on commonalities but on scenario policies) and a few specialisation routing routines would assist quite dearly in providing a flexible but sound foundation for scripting support interactions.
Either way, Customer Support has grown with EVE over the past years, and while severe and sometimes intentional screwups have been made CCP has always made the effort to grow with their own game. EVE is not a product which has had a smooth growth path, it has had and always will evolve through (sometimes painful) growth spurts. Attending to that on a support level is a continuous game of catching up with a racing train, on foot.
People only friggin whine about horrible petitions and responses. Nobody hardly ever says "wow cool" or "thanks" on the forums, so the picture people see is rather biased to negativity. Keep that in mind please.
Heck, once upon a time long ago an array of mine swallowed a mothership in build. Months after the petitioned was opened it had still not gotten anywhere, and ultimately the case was not resolved to satisfaction. Does that mean I have to write off the entirety of customer support? No. I can recall quite a bunch of other cases over the years where I've pretty much lit candles to thank for the effort the GM's made.
|

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 17:13:00 -
[12]
I think that this is a VAST improvement. Good job sir!
Only other thing I could ask for is that maybe the general tone is more of a "This is what a part of the community seems to think. Maybe this is something that could be considered". I totally agree with most of it from my experience. But it's all about approaching it in a way where it's not a direct attack on the GM team.
But very nice job otherwise. 
|

Celestrias
Mid Knights Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 17:54:00 -
[13]
If you have seen Idiocracy... GM Support on Eve is similar to when Joe Bauers (Luke Wilson) goes to the hospital and the lady is doing this to figure out what he's complainin about.
|

Misaki Yuuko
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 18:59:00 -
[14]
better yep
|

Vuk Lau
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 19:05:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Vuk Lau on 03/08/2009 19:05:39 Yup good one. Thanks for this. Sadly everytime I started writing this issue I wanted to explode. The version I posted is like mk10. There are couple of more constructive ones but they were also more emo, so I had to post something to meet the deadline.
Anyway good job, there is couple of more things I could add, but u summed it prety well.
Thank you one more time, to you aswell to everyone else who added constructive posts.
|

Borun Tal
Virtual Rock Industries
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 23:22:00 -
[16]
|

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 01:14:00 -
[17]
A better presentation of the issue than Vuk's. Your proposed changes sound broadly reasonable, and like they'd fix a lot of the problem. Of course, there's limits on how good you can make a customer support centre, but there is room for improvement, and these changes would likely be serious improvements. Supported.
|

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 08:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mashashige
Originally by: Malcanis This is a better rework.
One thing I would like to add is something that could help the GMs, rather than just criticise them:
Specifically, I am talking about penalties for players abusing the petition system.
Sound like a good idea. How would you go about this though? x time between petitions? Rework the petition system so the GMs can notice an abnormal number of petitions from one person / regarding an issue? (could be useful if many people are reporting an isk buyer, and I doubt a system like that is in place)
And what about punishments? Complete x days ban from petitioning? Warning?
And also, how would you determine if someone is abusing the system/ what does it mean to abuse it? (guess if they publish a public rules+regs that would be there).
Petitions can be escalated by players; why not by GMs?
|

Bomberlocks
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 08:47:00 -
[19]
This. I don't know how many GM answers have been copy/paste or have had petitions deleted without any response.
These days I generally just don't petition anything unless it's to troll or for s&g since I don't expect a serious answer anyway.
|

Aelsa
Portal Technologies
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 13:16:00 -
[20]
Supporting this, more measured thread. We the player base don't have enough information about the GM team or their procedures to judge where the problem lies or what needs to be done, but I think it's clear from the response here on the forums that something needs to be done.
Oh, and to address one specific point raised:
There's nothing wrong with copy&paste messages, if used appropriately. Anyone who thinks differently should try responding to a couple of hundred emails containing the same question - and consider how much time you want the GM team to spend on reinventing the wheel.
Of course, pre-written responses doesn't remove the need for GMs to read the initial message and make a judgement about how to handle it, and it sounds as if some of them need to be reminded of that.
|
|

RedSplat
Heretic Army
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 14:29:00 -
[21]
Edited by: RedSplat on 04/08/2009 14:28:46
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
|

ChinaWillGrowLarger
Heretic Command
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 16:28:00 -
[22]
I agree with RedSplat and support this issue. RedSplat is a cool guy.
|

Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 16:36:00 -
[23]
What I really want to see is a GM operation that does more than CTRL+V "Our logs show nothing" to petitions.
Failing that, replace them with trained monkeys to do all the pasting of nonsense answers and spend the savings on more Devs.
My opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my corp or alliance. |

Chee
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 16:44:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Chee on 04/08/2009 16:44:26
Quote: But it's all about approaching it in a way where it's not a direct attack on the GM team
But they need a well deserved spanking, they got it coming for em! Your too nice for my liking :)
|

Thodoros
Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:10:00 -
[25]
Supported. And it has to be said that, Moon Dogg is Top Dog!
|

Moon Dogg
Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:11:00 -
[26]
Thanks for pulling my posts from the locked thread over. I was afraid I was going to have to re-post them here, and for today that is just too much effort (long day at work so far!).
People are stating that we don't know enough about that GM and petition system to formulate an educated response, and they are probably right. My ideas are from the viewpoint of a very "barebones" approach to customer service.
*********************************** "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..." |

Trillian Mcmillan
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:15:00 -
[27]
|

Roastedpot
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:25:00 -
[28]
woo
|

Eato
Wrath of Fenris
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:30:00 -
[29]
|

Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria No
Perhaps some more hard fast guidelines need to be in place, especially with regards to reimbursement (which should all be but cut out except in the most extreme cases at this point), but for the most part petitions get answered within a timely manner relevant to their importance.
I realize X issue might be an issue to you now, but that is slightly less lower on the service list than say, someone who cannot log in because toon is stuck in limbo.
This.
I have always felt my replies were satisfactory even when they didn't agree with my requests.
As pointed in other threads it is only logic that some reply is cut and paste, if the GM had to write a personal reply with different wording every time he get the same question it will lose a lot of time for nothing.
Adding personal has a cost, we are sure we want to bear that?
And the OP calling that there is Quote: Total loss of trust in said support system, to the point of which people saying "don't petition it, it won't make a difference anyhow"
is the usual methodology to say "I am the representative of all EVE players, I have lost my faith in the GM so all player have lost faith in them". No the OP and Vuk and some other people have lost faith in the GM, but that don't make them "all EVE".
|
|

Hinata
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:49:00 -
[31]
|

pandymen
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:54:00 -
[32]
|

Vuk Lau
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:18:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Vuk Lau on 04/08/2009 18:18:15
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Locking thread to consolidate threads. Please continue discussion in this thread.
Lavista please explain me how to be profesional when I have to deal with stuff this. I would like to know the logic behind locking my thread.
Why other 20 pages threads which exist for months on this part of forums and have similar forums threads aswell werent locked for consolidation?
Wonder what answer will I get from IA dept when I petition CCP Zymurgist. Bah why should I bother.
Guys continue bumping this thread until they close this one for consolidation aswell.
|

Red Raider
Caldari Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:19:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Red Raider on 04/08/2009 18:19:51
Originally by: Mashashige Creation of a new method to monitor game mechanics in which logs actually mean something and not just an "go-away" GM answer Creation of a PUBLIC rules and regulations regarding GM do's and dont's, specifically reimbursement.
I would love to see an integrated battle recorder similar to what Battlefield does but only for your account and not everyone like BF's.
Other than that I don't support or not support the topic. Informing a company of your dissatisfaction with services is fantastic and the response here shows that many have had less than happy times with the GM's.
However, I am more concerned about the reason for so many people having constant communications with the GM's which is the feeling I get from the other thread. Is it technical issues that if resolved would be better served fixing the technical issue and stopping the GM contact issue by default? Is it a time thing? Having had my share of dealings in this matter patience is a virtue many people simply do not have. Or is it something else?
A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out. |

postal dude
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:21:00 -
[35]
|

machielk
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:22:00 -
[36]
|

Warp Warrior
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:22:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Agemmemnon No... no.. no Guns I am going to live in Eve without killing!!
|

Minthos
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:22:00 -
[38]
|

Hidetoshi Rushd
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:22:00 -
[39]
|

Mysthique
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:23:00 -
[40]
|
|

Manira Kuget
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:23:00 -
[41]
|

half san
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:23:00 -
[42]
Edited by: half san on 04/08/2009 18:23:07
|

Ved Run2
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:23:00 -
[43]
|

Mol'Tawakil Rushd
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:23:00 -
[44]
|

White Paladin
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:23:00 -
[45]
|

Skygod Horus
Minmatar Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:23:00 -
[46]
|

Molovova
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:24:00 -
[47]
|

Apophis Hotep
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:24:00 -
[48]
|

orange lotus
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:24:00 -
[49]
|

Djerin
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:25:00 -
[50]
---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo |
|

Dreadmuppet Four
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:25:00 -
[51]
|

Chilled G
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:25:00 -
[52]
|

Renius 13th
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:25:00 -
[53]
|

MobyMule
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:26:00 -
[54]
I support this thread
|

Angeus
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:26:00 -
[55]
|

Green Arwen
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:26:00 -
[56]
|

coolj006
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:26:00 -
[57]
|

chinnychinchin
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:26:00 -
[58]
|

Xakura
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:26:00 -
[59]
|

DerTribun
Minmatar Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:27:00 -
[60]
http://www.battleclinic.com/kill_sigs/signature_display.php?string=DerTribun |
|

sonn tzu
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:27:00 -
[61]
|

Lauriers
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:27:00 -
[62]
|

Dee Tee
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:27:00 -
[63]
|

Tamtel Skreej
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:31:00 -
[64]
|

Giliascal
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:31:00 -
[65]
|

Clam Spunj
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:31:00 -
[66]
|

General Madine
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:32:00 -
[67]
|

JohnDoe Lee
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:32:00 -
[68]
|

Talinthi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:32:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Talinthi on 04/08/2009 18:32:12
Originally by: Moon Dogg
People are stating that we don't know enough about that GM and petition system to formulate an educated response, and they are probably right. My ideas are from the viewpoint of a very "barebones" approach to customer service.
I agree that we don't know enough about the actual process to make useful comments on how to improve it. but that being said I think one of the big problems is gms not reading all the way through some petitions. I personally have never had any problems with the way petitions work and have had the majority of petitions i write turn out in my favor(I've had 3-4 ships replaced by ccp over the past 2 years) and I believe the way their ship reimbursement works relatively well as long as there was an actual problem with the game. That being said the only complaint I have on the way the petition program works right now is the TIME involved. I petitioned to get my ship and implants back after losing ship/pod to the gate jump desynch bug I got the implants and ship back(minus dropped modules) but it took a MONTH to get this straightened out. Now I can understand that there were probably thousands of similar petitions but 4 weeks for completion of a simple bug related problem is too long. changes need to be made to the petition process to not only have more informed gms responding to petitions but also to decrease the time involved in resolving the petitions.
well thats just my 2 cents hope people take the time to read it and sorry for the wall of text
|

Commander Bacara
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:33:00 -
[70]
|
|

Adrathis Beta
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:34:00 -
[71]
|

Zanthar Eos
hirr
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:34:00 -
[72]
I second this
|

Gabriel Virtus
hirr
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:34:00 -
[73]
I have lost most trust in GMs. I have to escalate everything in order to be dealt with fairly. If I get one more answer that states "our logs show nothing" I am going to scream.
I understand the workload, but CCP should understand my subscription fee. When game mechanics fail (like the do quite frequently in EVE), there needs to be a dedicated and understanding GM corps to pick up the peices and offer help.
I have run into GMs that were very professional and I appreciate this. I just wish it was the majority instead of the minority.
-GV
|

Migal
Joy Division
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:40:00 -
[74]
|

Aurora Spacefarer
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:41:00 -
[75]
|

Georgiy Rostisla
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:42:00 -
[76]
|

Romlus Jr
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:45:00 -
[77]
|

Kiora Evon
The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:47:00 -
[78]
|

Iss Hogai
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:48:00 -
[79]
--- In the end, everything is grey... Pilot of the Griffin of DOOM |

ElvenLord
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:56:00 -
[80]
|
|

Lady Ann
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:56:00 -
[81]
|

Lord Iluvatar
4S Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:56:00 -
[82]
|

Bloodhands
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:56:00 -
[83]
|

ElvenLady
Elf industries
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:56:00 -
[84]
|

KUNG'FU BOSANAC
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:57:00 -
[85]
|

Alex SOKOLOFF
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:57:00 -
[86]
|

LordElven
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:57:00 -
[87]
|

Jaquen H'gar
Mothers of EVE
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:58:00 -
[88]
|

Dark Alex
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:58:00 -
[89]
|

ED209
Science Experts
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:58:00 -
[90]
|
|

CBR Superfly
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:59:00 -
[91]
|

vftim
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:00:00 -
[92]
Edited by: vftim on 04/08/2009 19:00:30 bump, agreed
|

Saka Mizuno
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:00:00 -
[93]
|

kasaaa
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:04:00 -
[94]
|

bloody johnroberts
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:04:00 -
[95]
i support this thread still think vuks was best
lack of ccp response = nothing in these posts to copy and paste
|

Night Wave
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:06:00 -
[96]
|

Fen Paci
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:06:00 -
[97]
I fully endorse this product
|

Night skipper
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:09:00 -
[98]
|

Gone'Postal
Void Engineers Mass - Effect
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:09:00 -
[99]
Supporting this, But CCP won't change anything.
Originally by: masternerdguy
Officer mods arent spread out because the bpos are innacesible to 99% of eve.
|

silverzee
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:10:00 -
[100]
|
|

MiracleCopy
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:11:00 -
[101]
|

Splithorizon
The Graduates
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:12:00 -
[102]
Very good.
|

kasaa
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:12:00 -
[103]
Edited by: kasaa on 04/08/2009 19:12:15
|

GashaSerb
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:14:00 -
[104]
|

Perun Powerfull
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:15:00 -
[105]
nice work
|

Tawty
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:16:00 -
[106]
|

nox9wyrm
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:16:00 -
[107]
|

TryMyProduct
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:17:00 -
[108]
|

Mashashige
Eternal Perseverance Flight School
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:24:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
And the OP calling that there is Quote: Total loss of trust in said support system, to the point of which people saying "don't petition it, it won't make a difference anyhow"
is the usual methodology to say "I am the representative of all EVE players, I have lost my faith in the GM so all player have lost faith in them". No the OP and Vuk and some other people have lost faith in the GM, but that don't make them "all EVE".
I think 360+ (last I counted) people, even though most were MM and vuk alts and what not, saying they are displeased with the GM crew, to the point that they don't file petitions/escalate all of their petitions. Even if I used an hyperbole to accentuate the problem a little, my point is still viable. Also, the whole point of this forum is to represent the eve player base - if you got so much support for it, I would believe many other less outspoken people are just "suffering" in silence. =======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |

iP0D
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:26:00 -
[110]
This is starting to remind me of old style goon threads on CAOD.
|
|

Jameroz
Echoes of Space
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:29:00 -
[111]
|

Shinma Apollo
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:30:00 -
[112]
/signed. the senior gms are on the ball for sure, but the first line gms are brutal. We should all just use one default pre-scripted response requesting an escalation until the junior level gms handling petition learn their business.
Everyone appreciates that CCP is trying to reduce the time it takes to handle complaints, but getting them resolved properly should be prioritized now.
|

Karentaki
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:35:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Karentaki on 04/08/2009 19:35:44 Supported
Specifically regarding the problem of abuses in the petition system. The number of threads I've read where carebears (and some PvP'ers) promote filing false or fraudulent petitions simply to gain an ingame advantage. The most notable example of this is mission runners petitioning to get their missions reset after they (through their own fault) lose or destroy the mission item. Rather than admitting that it was their fault, they claim the item never spawned.
EDIT: I can't spell.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
|

Fallassar
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:36:00 -
[114]

|

Balacus
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:37:00 -
[115]

|

Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance Flight School
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:39:00 -
[116]
Originally by: iP0D This is starting to remind me of old style goon threads on CAOD.
lol agreed - seems like too many thumbs up, too little opposition and constructive criticism/ideas. But atleast we got all of MM behind us no? =======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |

Nef Erator
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:43:00 -
[117]
|

Yuna Terra
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:49:00 -
[118]
-.-
|

Aeriana Rose
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:49:00 -
[119]
|

GiggMaster
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:50:00 -
[120]
OK .. I will post again but I'm pretty sure CCP will find a way to lock this thread too. []'s GiggMaster |
|

Evenfall Phoenix
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:50:00 -
[121]
|

Salesman 1969
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:54:00 -
[122]
and weeks later you got an answer
|

jkepster
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 20:04:00 -
[123]
|

StallioN SDK1
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 20:05:00 -
[124]
|

ZZ Cool
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 20:06:00 -
[125]
|

Paerb
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 20:09:00 -
[126]
|

muu lufragga
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 20:24:00 -
[127]
Edited by: muu lufragga on 04/08/2009 20:25:29 I agree masha, I lost a chimera to a bug in our old alliance and many people agreed i should of got it back, and now my recent lost of a heavly tanked ship to a single frigate rat they cant explain, and so far they will not esclate to Senior GM (been 2 days since i Asked). I 100% supprot this.
|

Imertu Solientai
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 20:25:00 -
[128]
|

Triax Calingham
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 20:28:00 -
[129]
|

Gaurina
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 20:29:00 -
[130]
|
|

Blavx
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 20:32:00 -
[131]
|

Julius Gherhan
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 20:53:00 -
[132]
|

Hans Binal
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 20:54:00 -
[133]
|

agram tabris
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:09:00 -
[134]
nothing to add.
no sig. |

Amara Jade
Fat J
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:18:00 -
[135]
|

Lizard Skin
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:18:00 -
[136]
|

Zeturi
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:29:00 -
[137]
|

AnarchistUK
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:30:00 -
[138]
|

Estuans interius
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:34:00 -
[139]
|

kula kain
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:36:00 -
[140]
 
|
|

Lady Callia
Perfecto Records
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:36:00 -
[141]
|

Somnus Nemoris
4S Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:36:00 -
[142]
|

Slyferz
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:38:00 -
[143]
|

Kwa Zulu
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:39:00 -
[144]
|

Riakai
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:40:00 -
[145]
|

Elil hrair
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:40:00 -
[146]
|

Xavius IV
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:41:00 -
[147]
|

PsychoUK
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:43:00 -
[148]
|

Fural
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:44:00 -
[149]
|

Favorite Dealer
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:50:00 -
[150]
|
|

Athanasia Athena
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:57:00 -
[151]
|

Arjen1705
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 21:58:00 -
[152]
|

RaZZZaR
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 22:05:00 -
[153]
|

Draskuul Vrallis
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 22:12:00 -
[154]
The animosity of the playerbase towards GMs really boils down to:
- Copy-and-paste / bot replies
- The myriad of (mostly lag-related) issues that lead to "our logs don't show that" responses.
Fix the lag and you fix most of the second issue. I know this is being worked on, and I have enough technical background to fully appreciate the issues in hand. Since some of the issues are inherently unsolvable without MAJOR changes to the codebase, it would be nice to see some effort made towards 'working around' the desync issues caused by the lag (thus generating petitions), or at the very least helping provide feedback for the logs when these conditions occur. If you can't fix it, make it easier to clean up afterwards.
--------
On the point of testing GMs at hire, this may not be possible. I'm sure a number of GMs are in the US office by now. From what I understand in many states hiring exams are forbidden (because, as any American knows, every test of every form are always racist, but that's another flamebait topic).
What they could do, though, is test after hire to weed out the incompetent and provide remedial training. If they don't make the cut after that then they can be ditched easily if it's a work-at-will state.
|

Cidrolin
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 22:15:00 -
[155]
|

Elitess
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 22:22:00 -
[156]
|

Jimer Lins
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 22:30:00 -
[157]
Supported.
It'd be nice if I thought the GMs even played the game.
Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast |

The Jackhammer
Unity Thru Aggression Unity Thru Aggression.
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 22:39:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Jimer Lins It'd be nice if I thought the GMs even played the game.
They did .. they ran with BoB .. why do you think calls seemed to always go their way 
supported
Mmmmm,
The Jackhammer
Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
|

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 22:44:00 -
[159]
GM closing petition faster than it could have been humanly possible to read (literally 3 seconds). ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |

Joshua MIstweaver
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 22:54:00 -
[160]
|
|

ProSaturn
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 22:55:00 -
[161]
Supported
|

Gideon Goldenbelly
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 22:55:00 -
[162]
|

Yuki YokaiYasha
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 22:56:00 -
[163]
|

Ameri Boi
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 23:20:00 -
[164]
rawr
pew pew boom boom FLASH splat. |

Kim Wilde
Covenant
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 23:20:00 -
[165]
while i dont feel the gm team are hopeless there is definitive room for improvements! after having the c+p response enough to just ask for escalation if i get it and the gm failing to read the pet enough so that senior gm kicked it back to the lower gm
|

Shogie Etiene
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 23:46:00 -
[166]
Supported
|

Damagran
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 23:49:00 -
[167]
100% agree
|

Corina Slade
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 23:51:00 -
[168]
|

Zeraphine Akarii
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 01:17:00 -
[169]
|

xMada Fuka
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 01:27:00 -
[170]
Yep, it is time to grow with your clientele..... get support to your customers like a they deserve. Generic answers are so lame.
|
|

Artus Hasius
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 01:29:00 -
[171]
Finally someone speaks up. I hope that CCP will not just ignore this like they did in the past for similar issues.
|

Wap Pie
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 02:37:00 -
[172]
-
|

Barsak Kressel
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 02:37:00 -
[173]
|

Blazde
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 02:44:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Mashashige
Increasing GM count in order to reduce stress on each GM, so we get the feeling of being answered by REAL humans and not a C+P machine
Strongly disagreeing with this idea. I think they need good old fashioned quality over quantity. The problem with giving players bull**** replies is they just reply back, often padding out their original petition with more information that isn't really neccesary and adding all kinds of meta-arguments to explain why their problem is important, then getting into debates with the GMs about the petition itself. If the original GM who replied to the petition was competent and properly incentivised to just resolve it as quickly as possible (and if he can't immediately then spend time learning how to) there'd be a decrease in the number of petitions that need replies. Then all the useless GMs that mostly just type 30 second replies and take pleasure in watching their victims squirm can be layed off.
Yes more good GMs are needed, but more GMs please no. The GM stress I'm sure is a mirror image of the player stress that comes from dealing with the bad apple GMs on a daily basis.
The worst effect of bad GMs is when they make a bad descion and for whatever reason the more competent ones decide to back them up and present a unified front. This seems (anecdotally) to happen much less than it used to, which is perhaps an acknowledgement by the whole department that they are lumbered with so many non-serious GMs that it's impossible to hide it anymore. _
|

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 03:14:00 -
[175]
So I've been docked for the last week waiting for a GM response after the initial auto-FAQ bot reply.
Will I get a refund for that week?
|

R3V0LV3R
Revolt Industries
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 03:26:00 -
[176]
I support this. I have had both bad and good GM's My experience tends to vary. Although I will admit, alot of the answers i get are copy-pasted responses, and that REALLY makes me mad. It is almost like they didnt want to put forth the effort to write something. It honestly makes me a little crazy sometimes.
But there are the good times too. ----
|

Onerous One
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 03:32:00 -
[177]
|

Ifni Zen
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 04:48:00 -
[178]
---- rawr |

Batolemaeus
Money Liberation Services Corp
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 05:00:00 -
[179]
|

Watain
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 05:11:00 -
[180]
----------------------------------
|
|

PaulRPG
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 06:03:00 -
[181]
|

couger malthas
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 06:27:00 -
[182]
support _______________________________________________
|

BJ Services
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 06:28:00 -
[183]
Respect!
|

KosmikZA
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 06:35:00 -
[184]
Edited by: KosmikZA on 05/08/2009 06:35:00
|

Ichabaad Crane
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 06:36:00 -
[185]
|

sol murgs
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 06:50:00 -
[186]
|

Almighty Malachi
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 06:51:00 -
[187]
|

Liyrn
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 06:51:00 -
[188]
|

Wasea
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 06:52:00 -
[189]
|

Ro Bot
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 06:52:00 -
[190]
|
|

Doomed Predator
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 07:53:00 -
[191]
Supporting this cause lets be honest,90% of the GMs suck The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again |

Derek Shmawesome
We Know Derek
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 07:58:00 -
[192]
|

Drakona Malchon
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 08:21:00 -
[193]
Combat Op Director Free-Space-Ranger
Corporate Homepage onlinegaming since 1998
|

Wolf theBold
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 08:22:00 -
[194]
support
|

Boschete Moshu
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 09:35:00 -
[195]
support
|

alexandra123
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 09:36:00 -
[196]
pro
|

Moraru
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 09:36:00 -
[197]
support
|

etgfrogs
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 12:16:00 -
[198]
FROG! |

Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 12:20:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Terra Mikael on 05/08/2009 12:21:43
While everyone else is *****ing...don't leave me out. I have something nonconstructive to say!
So here I am posting in the sh!ttiest thread to grace the assembly hall in quite some time. (IBTL)
Seriously, you honestly believe that anyone will listen to you cry? You got to be pretty ****ing ******ed. The only Guy that reads these forums is mitnal, and that's just to ban turds like me. (I'd like to take this chance to say **** you in advanced for the warning).
Oh, and CSM is ******ed and pointless. As if taking a plane to CCP headquarters and talking to them in person will suddenly make them understand all our problems. lol, thats great - Internet spaceships representatives. You fail at life for the betterment of our collective entertainment.
And CCP? I heard they were a feature, or was it a bug. Or perhaps it was just epic fail.
TL:DR; nobody gives a ****. ccp and regular people included. CSM, CCP, GMs, and ISDs should GDIAF.
Execpt for Larkonis, he's cool. Watch out lark, don't get any fail sauce on you.
Edit:
Thumbs up for a good belly laugh. ________________________________
Originally by: Lone Gunman Yes overpowered would be giving a ship with the Covert ops cloak the ability to fire say..Torpedos, now that would be overpowered. But CCP would
|

GunnaKillYouWithPLeasure
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 12:22:00 -
[200]
|
|

Marzzola
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 12:55:00 -
[201]
|

Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 13:00:00 -
[202]
Seriously, at least say something like "I agree"
You guys look like a bunch of ****ing alts. ________________________________
Originally by: Lone Gunman Yes overpowered would be giving a ship with the Covert ops cloak the ability to fire say..Torpedos, now that would be overpowered. But CCP would
|

Moon Dogg
Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 13:01:00 -
[203]
I forgot to throw my thumbs up in this new thread 
*********************************** "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..." |

Llynia
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 13:13:00 -
[204]
¬Llynia |

Shadoo
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 13:27:00 -
[205]
|

thebaltaci
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 13:28:00 -
[206]
wery nice post absolutly supporting this one !!!!
|

Traderjohn
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 13:28:00 -
[207]
|

Sidzo
SRBI
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 13:29:00 -
[208]
|

Pr3da1or3
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 13:29:00 -
[209]
|

megetegem
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 13:31:00 -
[210]
|
|

Endis
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 13:31:00 -
[211]
|

Cobra5665
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 13:32:00 -
[212]
|

Tomcat
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 13:37:00 -
[213]
I endorse this product and or service.
|

Jai Cee
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 14:05:00 -
[214]
Sorry I want to support this but my keyboard shows nothing The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out! |

Daemon Bourne
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 14:10:00 -
[215]
|

Shadow Angel
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 14:11:00 -
[216]
|

jacktoff
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 14:12:00 -
[217]
|

Dragorin
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 14:50:00 -
[218]
supported [url=http://66.11.226.108/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=47019] [/url] |

BeRSS
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 14:53:00 -
[219]
|

Gargantoi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 15:19:00 -
[220]
suport for this
|
|

Mysterious Deteis
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 15:32:00 -
[221]
Yes
|

Natheniel
Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 15:39:00 -
[222]
supported ---- Balls to the wall or don't go at all
|

Calysia
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 15:43:00 -
[223]
vote 4 this! Free-Space-Rangers | Proud Member of Morsus Mihi
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
|

Calysia
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 16:06:00 -
[224]
Free-Space-Rangers | Proud Member of Morsus Mihi
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
|

Shizah
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 16:16:00 -
[225]
|

Cpt Iwan
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 16:46:00 -
[226]
Yes
|

Dzofle
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 16:48:00 -
[227]
|

Alihahd
The Graduates
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 16:59:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Alihahd on 05/08/2009 16:59:59 The system needs to cleaned up and made transparent. While I'm all for protecting privacy - the lack of transparency leads to the perception of misuse (in many cases the correct perception unfortunately).
Train them, teach them the rules and hold them accountable to the rules no matter what the level of GM.
If it is big issue - unless you have a super-majority of GMs agreeing with the change - Don't do it. The seamonkey has my money.
 About TGRAD |

Ulga Bulga
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 17:06:00 -
[229]
|

RazorCRO
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 17:08:00 -
[230]
supporting this one too!
|
|

Serotta Ortot
Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 17:33:00 -
[231]
Can't remember the last time I filed a petition due to the GM's not having a clue, thus I fully endorse this
|

Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 18:58:00 -
[232]
supported ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |

Patric Riegns
4S Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 19:17:00 -
[233]
|

HunterHH
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 19:19:00 -
[234]
|

Nicolas Vision
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 19:20:00 -
[235]
|

Tragic Sniper
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 19:36:00 -
[236]
A black box process. You give them information they give you a stock reply and no information whatsoever in return.
|

Shalandra
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 19:47:00 -
[237]
|

mdjacks
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 19:48:00 -
[238]
|

Stanis
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 19:49:00 -
[239]
<-- YMCA 4TW! |

Jenna Jenkins
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 19:50:00 -
[240]
|
|

cyberdistortion
Macabre Votum
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 21:14:00 -
[241]
|

Tasha Voronina
Caldari Navy Reserve Force
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 21:54:00 -
[242]
Seeing how the "other" thread got locked and this one sums the points up quite nicely, here goes my support. --- Sig will be updated shortly |

Vrana
Cry Me A River Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 22:04:00 -
[243]
|

MasterOfTheNight
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 23:18:00 -
[244]
Supported, again...
|

Malekan
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 00:47:00 -
[245]
Got to support this as well.
|

Flash Ahhhahhhhh
Temples of Syrinx
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 01:28:00 -
[246]
Edited by: Flash Ahhhahhhhh on 06/08/2009 01:28:35 CCP ... THINK ... how does it look if you attempt to supress people speaking about the way you handle stuff ... seriously ... THINK! <<<<>>>>
He'll save every one of us |

Stublick Hunt
Prince's of the Universe
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 01:30:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Flash Ahhhahhhhh Edited by: Flash Ahhhahhhhh on 06/08/2009 01:28:35 CCP ... THINK ... how does it look if you attempt to supress people speaking about the way you handle stuff ... seriously ... THINK!
Such wisdom from someone who only has 14 hours to save the earth :D
|

Butternut Squash
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 01:31:00 -
[248]
Because ... If we don't say no, CCP will assume we mean yes.
I am jealous of my wife ... she already has a titan :) |

Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 01:33:00 -
[249]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 06/08/2009 01:33:48 Surprise surprise... here I was thinking this thread and the one before this was stupid... emo rage...nothing but a waste of time.
I've never had a problem... until recently.
About 2 weeks ago I had a strange skill queue glitch on me.... I didn't notice because I was just pew pew pew'ing and then I saw it frozen on completing a skill for an hour.
So I report it... and they say I lost 58 to 59 minutes of training (big wup right?).
So I go.. ok... uh.. that's not good.. can I have it back?
They say yes... I say sure.. put it there (points to skill queue)
nope.. won't work there.
I say.. put it there then (points at skill list)
OH we can't do that.. has to be in a skill with exactly same amount of time you lost and must not be training and most not be in the queue.
I just lost it there and said frak it... told them they can keep it and flunked the rating.
Whats happened to the stellar GM service people? Seriously?
Sorry... but my pitchfork is gonna get added to this stack.
Here here!
PS: Seriously.. its just a measily 59 minutes and they couldn't shove it into a skill at random or nudge along my queue? WTH?! ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |

Saju Somtaaw
Kiowa Tribe MagiTech Corp
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 03:45:00 -
[250]
All I've ever had to petition are ISK spammers, and they've all been c&p replies. Though I agree we need some transparency here, if they're worried about privacy don't release the char names, but the GMs "GM Whatever" should be available with their start date, so we can have an idea of how much experience they have, maybe even the month and year of their oldest normal character-no name, just that it was made in January 2005 for example. ---- --- --- Devs Sign Here; GMs and ISD welcome to :) |
|

Zulu Cain
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 04:06:00 -
[251]
|

Kytanos Termek
Darkstorm Command Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 05:31:00 -
[252]
What competence?
Fully supported.
(200 supports out of 250 in less than 7 days?, This is going good)
|

Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 06:07:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 06/08/2009 01:33:48 Surprise surprise... here I was thinking this thread and the one before this was stupid... emo rage...nothing but a waste of time.
Indeed... ________________________________
Originally by: Lone Gunman Yes overpowered would be giving a ship with the Covert ops cloak the ability to fire say..Torpedos, now that would be overpowered. But CCP would
|

pc dude
Ghosts of Ragnarok
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 06:32:00 -
[254]
i think this thread is mostly just a list of people who shall not be getting any petition requests granted any time soon =p
<3 ccp
|

KhumChe
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 07:31:00 -
[255]
|

Valator Uel
N'Th'Rack Squadron Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 11:12:00 -
[256]
Totally supported!
Quote: Aya > Hostile tcf gang coming to h-pa Deva Blackfire > ships? Ralarina > Yes, in ships
|

Franga
NQX Innovations
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:13:00 -
[257]
Edited by: Franga on 06/08/2009 12:14:26 Supporting this. Lower level or 'first port of call' GMs generally seem to lack any idea or just DO NOT READ the petitions. Often replies have nothing to do with what you're petitioning about or are so vague and general you can almost envisage them going with a 'cut and paste' reply. _____________________________

Please resize sig to a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |

Milo Caman
Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:17:00 -
[258]
Been an issue for a very long time. Something really needs to be done about it.
Out of Sinq |

Aegaeonos
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 16:53:00 -
[259]
------------------------------------------------ Only the Dead see the End of War -PLATO
|

Melgur
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 18:27:00 -
[260]
|
|

Blutekinder
|
Posted - 2009.08.07 06:17:00 -
[261]
|

RX 700
|
Posted - 2009.08.07 11:40:00 -
[262]
Edited by: RX 700 on 07/08/2009 11:40:45
|

DerHund Erste
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.07 11:47:00 -
[263]
Quote: Suggested solutions: 1. Revisiting the GM hiring policy, including a test (?) for game mechanics knowledge 2. Increasing GM count in order to reduce stress on each GM, so we get the feeling of being answered by REAL humans and not a C+P machine 3. Creation of a new method to monitor game mechanics in which logs actually mean something and not just an "go-away" GM answer 4. Creation of a PUBLIC rules and regulations regarding GM do's and dont's, specifically reimbursement. 5. House cleanup by IA department (or creation of one if it doesn't exist) and clearing up all the "rotten apples" . Although there is no public T20 yet, I doubt the GM department is fully clean. (Again, Ill add suggestions as they come from players). As a general note, CCP has two main issues at hand ATM: 1. Lack of a working support for their game 2. Total loss of trust in said support system, to the point of which people saying "don't petition it, it won't make a difference anyhow".
Hits the issue perfectly!
- DerHund |

Syaran
IMPERIAL SENATE Cool Kids Club
|
Posted - 2009.08.07 12:42:00 -
[264]
Edited by: Syaran on 07/08/2009 12:42:52 I've had reasonably positive experiences with the GM's so far, but when I speak in alliance chat and find out that different Gm's cannot even agree on a single issue...something has to be done.
For instance, a reasonably well-known example is the capships in hisec issue. Even though several legal ones are flying about (Chribba's Veldnaught for example), different GM's will tell you different things on the issue.
In any support system, the same question should always receive the same answer. Telling someone no once and yes the next time will create a 'spoiled child' effect where players will keep petitioning until they find a GM that will grant their request/give them the answer they want. They then have a screenshot proof and create a precedent.
So yeah, improvements are a good idea!
|

JitaPriceChecker2
|
Posted - 2009.08.07 13:59:00 -
[265]
|

Paipai Caroo
|
Posted - 2009.08.07 15:36:00 -
[266]
|

Nova Satar
Annihilate. Avarice.
|
Posted - 2009.08.07 16:14:00 -
[267]
Are you honestly giving CCP "company advice" on how to hire and train it's staff?
Who the **** are you? Do you know ANYTHING?
I hate SKY, but i haven't given them a seminar on who to employ.
|

Ariandis
|
Posted - 2009.08.07 17:43:00 -
[268]
Edited by: Ariandis on 07/08/2009 17:43:29
|

Ragn Azure
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.07 18:10:00 -
[269]
I support this discussion.
|

Tawron
Macabre Votum
|
Posted - 2009.08.07 18:12:00 -
[270]
About a month and a half ago i was mission running in my paladin i was taking too much damage so i went to warp away. now. i had enough armor to sustain a while but it was getting broken so i wanted to get out and come back in at a better range.
I got the message "you ahve somehow overloaded you cargohold and cant warp" thats not the exact wording but that was the general meaning of it. i checked my cargo i had nearly 1000m3 avail jettisoned a crystal to see if that needed to reset it for some reason still nothing. long and short of it my paladin got blown up due to a game bug. Now. i dont usualy petition losses. ive lost carriers in sea of lag and been blown up before the grids even loaded but havent petitioned the losses as i knew they were the risks of going into combat.
This one i cant let slide though. i petitioned it origionally on the 26th of june 2009 at 18:31 29th of june 2009 at 07:45 i got a reply "We are sorry to hear about your ship loss. Unfortunately we are unable to reimburse the ship as our server-side logs do not indicate that a bug/error within the game or a server related problem was the reason for your loss" I coudlent beleive what i was seeing. I asked for it to be escilated. on the 29th of june 2009 at 13:39 2nd of july 2009 at 00:24 I have escalated your petition and your case will be reviewed by a senior member of our staff as soon as possible. i wait for a response. 13th july 2009 at 15:10 Hi, Senior GM Retrofire here.
I've checked all logs relevant to this case and after doing so I regrettably must concur with GM Horse's decision. Your loss was due to normal game mechanics and thus we are sadly unable to reimburse.
18th july 2009 (i get off holiday) i plea my case and reinstate what happened again
21st july 2009 Hi.
If you check your own combat logs for that time you can see that the message was sent, however due to the amount of damage messages being sent to you it disappeared quite quickly so you must have missed it completely.
Best regards, Senior GM Retrofire
i ask for another escilation
28th july 2009 Hi, senior GM Spiral here.
Thank you for your update.
Before we escalate further, could you please review the logs available to you on your system and give us the exact time stamp and wording of the cargohold message you received?
29th july 2009 i reply i have just looked for the logs and my system dont seem to have any before the date of 11th of july and this petition has been going well over a bloody month now. The customer service i have received has been dispicable. the words i remember were "you have somehow "overflowed? overfilled?" your cargohold" i cant remember much else of the message all i remember is checking my cargo and seeing about 800m3 free i jettisoned something and still nothing.
1st of AUGUST 2009Thank you for your update.
The petition has been forwarded to the lead GMs for review. Please be patient as it can take several days for them to review and respond to your petition.
Best regards, Senior GM Spiral EVE Online Customer Support Team
7th of august 2009Hi.
Lead GM Fate here. I apologize for how long this has taken.
I have reviewed your case and I'm afraid that I have come to the same conclusion as the other GMs that have investigated this. Our logs do not show anything out of the ordinary from around the time you lost your ship. Before we can replace any ships, items or ISK we have to be able to fully verify that a server issue or a gameplay bug directly caused the loss. Since there is no way for us to do that here we are going to have to regretfully decline your reimbursement request.
I hope that you'll recover from your loss quickly and that you don't run into any further problems while playing EVE. If you do then please don't hesitate to contact us again. We'll do everything we can to help.
Best Regards, Lead GM F
|
|

Tawron
Macabre Votum
|
Posted - 2009.08.07 18:16:00 -
[271]
Edited by: Tawron on 07/08/2009 18:17:02 7th of august 2009 my reply i am not going to lie down on this one! i have been very patient for about a month and a half now? is it? over this. Its out of order you are calling me a liar blatently
7th of august 2009 Hi.
I can understand your frustration over this. However we have done everything that we possibly can to help you. 4 different GMs have gone over our logs without finding anything that would allow us to replace your ship.
We are not calling anyone a liar. But as per our policy we must be able to verify every single case before we can give out even a single ISK.
Best Regards, Lead GM Fate The EVE Online Customer Support Team
7th august 2009
my reply
you are blatently calling me a liar. i have barley ever petitioned a ship before. even the other day i undocked from jita 4-4 and warped away, then while in warp i could see myself being shot at and i magically appeared back at the station several times all i kept seeing was "you cant do that while in warp" over and over. but i diddent petition it cause it was lag and i undocked knowing the risks. I am telling you the message i got was "you have somehow overloaded your cargohold" ect ect as ive stated
7th of august 2009 Hi.
While our logs don't help us verify what happened there is nothing we can do. This case has now been investigated by 4 GMs including 2 Seniors and a Lead, with a total of almost 20 years of experience at investigating reimbursement claims, who all have come to the same conclusion. It is clear that the outcome of this case is not going to change and we have explained why we can't help you. I'm afraid that I will now have to close this petition but if you ever need any further help then please don't hesitate to contact us again.
Best Regards, Lead GM Fate The EVE Online Customer Support Team
--------
So after about a month and a half ish He closes the petition. up until that point i had been very polite and patient. ITS NOT ON. its certainly not fair either. anyone know of a way to continue pursuiting this?
|

fuze
Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2009.08.07 20:24:00 -
[272]
|

Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
|
Posted - 2009.08.08 03:40:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Tawron my cargo was overloaded
Don't overload your cargo next time. ________________________________
Originally by: Lone Gunman Yes overpowered would be giving a ship with the Covert ops cloak the ability to fire say..Torpedos, now that would be overpowered. But CCP would
|

Drewbo
|
Posted - 2009.08.08 04:49:00 -
[274]
|

Vendura
|
Posted - 2009.08.08 04:51:00 -
[275]
|

CPAS
|
Posted - 2009.08.08 04:52:00 -
[276]
|

Billericay Dickey
|
Posted - 2009.08.08 04:53:00 -
[277]
|

Fufica
Cry Me A River Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.08.08 12:51:00 -
[278]
|

NereSky
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.08.08 18:45:00 -
[279]
Edited by: NereSky on 08/08/2009 18:49:29 i agree that 'some' of the Gm's have not got a clue re game play however i do believe you are flogging a dead horse, even if a black hole formed, frapsed by 100 people then the black hole subsequently destroyed your ship the logs will always say ' nothing on here
tbh i think they refer to the logs stacked outside of CCP hq - however joking aside you wont win on this issue nor will it ever be listened to or discussed outside of whatever nursery some of the GM's work in, the only hope is appeal to their parents but every child likes to follow in their parents footsteps so dont hold your breath 
|

VCBee2888
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.08.08 22:25:00 -
[280]
someone at CCP needs to review their customer service department
|
|

Innominate
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.08.08 23:42:00 -
[281]
Edited by: Innominate on 08/08/2009 23:43:03 At the best of times the GMs of eve online have made the corruption in the olden days of UO look like honest customer support.
|

Kytanos Termek
Caldari Darkstorm Command Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.08.10 15:39:00 -
[282]
It is less corruption than it appears to be incompetence and lack of consistency. Atleast to my eyes.
|

Intari Vadovas
|
Posted - 2009.08.10 17:06:00 -
[283]
I have had very mixed perfomance with the GM/Petition system. Sometimes wits been quick and helpful, other times its been 3-4 weeks response time. And usually to say 'nothing in the logs' and 'petition closed'.
|

Pilux
|
Posted - 2009.08.11 03:45:00 -
[284]
|

Stil Harkonnen
|
Posted - 2009.08.11 05:03:00 -
[285]
I think just the fact that over 200 people support this idea pretty much speaks for itself
|

Indigo Dean
|
Posted - 2009.08.11 14:27:00 -
[286]
Edited by: Indigo Dean on 11/08/2009 14:27:19 During my university years I have worked for AOL's internal collection dept. Training and management directives called for us to scam, lie, cheat, lie some more, and cash the customers' credit cards for the entire outstanding balance.
Even with this knowledge and experience, I believe that CCP's customer service is way worse than AOL's.
At least we took the time to listen to those poor guys on the other end of the phone.
I can say that the best way to go around this is lodging some complaints with the Better Business Bureau, or even starting talks with players who feel they have been unlawfully treated by this service provider with the final goal of filing a class action lawsuit against them.
Most large companies, and especially service providers, do not give a rat's ass about the customers paying for their cars, mortgages, food and what-not. Individually, we pay a small amount, but collectively we make up for their entire profit margin.
The only inconvenience here is that a lot of people don't have the time or simply think the legal approach to this is not worth it. My advice is never let a company get away with bullying you. Your money fills their pockets. Maybe it's time for their money to fill yours, as moral damages.
Seek legal counsel today and sue them for everything they've got!
|

Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
|
Posted - 2009.08.11 14:35:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Indigo Dean Edited by: Indigo Dean on 11/08/2009 14:27:19 During my university years I have worked for AOL's internal collection dept. Training and management directives called for us to scam, lie, cheat, lie some more, and cash the customers' credit cards for the entire outstanding balance.
Even with this knowledge and experience, I believe that CCP's customer service is way worse than AOL's.
At least we took the time to listen to those poor guys on the other end of the phone.
I can say that the best way to go around this is lodging some complaints with the Better Business Bureau, or even starting talks with players who feel they have been unlawfully treated by this service provider with the final goal of filing a class action lawsuit against them.
Most large companies, and especially service providers, do not give a rat's ass about the customers paying for their cars, mortgages, food and what-not. Individually, we pay a small amount, but collectively we make up for their entire profit margin.
The only inconvenience here is that a lot of people don't have the time or simply think the legal approach to this is not worth it. My advice is never let a company get away with bullying you. Your money fills their pockets. Maybe it's time for their money to fill yours, as moral damages.
Seek legal counsel today and sue them for everything they've got!
That's all good and fine...and good sense no less...but you got a couple of problems.
1: No ones going to sue over a damn video game. 2: CCP is based out of Iceland... not the USA... while they may conduct business here.. they are internationally based.. somehow turning them into the BBB... is childish at best.
The only way your going to get results is 1 of 2 ways.
You quit the game taking away there money... or you complain about it until they can't take it anymore or they do something about it.
Now if this was a different situation such as a service like power or water... or food....something a little more critical... it would be different. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |

Indigo Dean
|
Posted - 2009.08.11 14:39:00 -
[288]
Actually the BBB would redirect you to http://www.econsumer.gov/ .
I'm afraid that this exact approach, i.e. "it's a video game", is their best instrument, and their most trusted safety net under which such abuse and bad service providing is made possible. By us.
If you won't stand up for your own rights, who would you like to do it for you? The CSM? Let's get real. Unless it involves them losing money in court, or damaging their reputation, they won't move a finger unless they want to.
As always, it's -your- call. |

Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
|
Posted - 2009.08.11 15:16:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Indigo Dean Actually the BBB would redirect you to http://www.econsumer.gov/ .
I'm afraid that this exact approach, i.e. "it's a video game", is their best instrument, and their most trusted safety net under which such abuse and bad service providing is made possible. By us.
If you won't stand up for your own rights, who would you like to do it for you? The CSM? Let's get real. Unless it involves them losing money in court, or damaging their reputation, they won't move a finger unless they want to.
As always, it's -your- call.
Rights to what? To play a video game in a fictional environment?
I'm paying for a service much like a magazine.... its nothing more than that
Oh sure I've put a lot of time into it... but I seriously doubt anyone is going to cry over that.
Again... there's a problem... but suggesting these courses of action is utterly ridiculous.
I Stand by my reasoning.... you want to get there attention? Complain or leave... asking a lawyer to sue them for losing your ship is a bit far fetched don't ya think?
CCP let alone the EULA did not guarantee certain things such as same day tech support... the whole basis of your said opinion hinges on rights that you "Assume" to be present to begin with.. hate to break it to you pal.... but you don't have any rights...
As far as anyone is concerned.... CCP can do whatever the #### the want when they see fit to do so.
They could be ignoring us right now... and it wont change a damn thing.
So either you have faith in the CSM that will do there job... or you walk away. If you wan't to sue them for a video game.. be my guest... let me know how that works out for yah. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |

Indigo Dean
|
Posted - 2009.08.11 15:49:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Originally by: Indigo Dean Actually the BBB would redirect you to http://www.econsumer.gov/ .
I'm afraid that this exact approach, i.e. "it's a video game", is their best instrument, and their most trusted safety net under which such abuse and bad service providing is made possible. By us.
If you won't stand up for your own rights, who would you like to do it for you? The CSM? Let's get real. Unless it involves them losing money in court, or damaging their reputation, they won't move a finger unless they want to.
As always, it's -your- call.
Rights to what? To play a video game in a fictional environment?
I'm paying for a service much like a magazine.... its nothing more than that
Oh sure I've put a lot of time into it... but I seriously doubt anyone is going to cry over that.
Again... there's a problem... but suggesting these courses of action is utterly ridiculous.
I Stand by my reasoning.... you want to get there attention? Complain or leave... asking a lawyer to sue them for losing your ship is a bit far fetched don't ya think?
CCP let alone the EULA did not guarantee certain things such as same day tech support... the whole basis of your said opinion hinges on rights that you "Assume" to be present to begin with.. hate to break it to you pal.... but you don't have any rights...
As far as anyone is concerned.... CCP can do whatever the #### the want when they see fit to do so.
They could be ignoring us right now... and it wont change a damn thing.
So either you have faith in the CSM that will do there job... or you walk away. If you wan't to sue them for a video game.. be my guest... let me know how that works out for yah.
I, for one, won't be doing anything of the sort. I don't have to deal with petitions as often as some people.
But seeing grown men act like women and going nerdy-emo, crying out to the CSM, to "solve" their problems simply made me offer an idea so maybe people could open their eyes.
Legally speaking, the service you are paying for, guaranteed by the contract you have with CCP is not provided within the stipulated paramaters to which CCP has obliged itself. It may not be that harsh but still, the least you could do is file a complaint with econsumer.gov to have them listed in their multinational database.
I hope other paying customers will eventually heed my call, and do what they should to protect their rights within the appropriate channels.
My good Drake Draconis, the CSM is nothing more than an outlet which major alliances, and major players use to influence the development of the game. This is because most of them represent the interests of large entities, making up for the majority of EVE's playerbase.
It's both in the interest of CCP and the CSM to see the game going in the direction they want it to. But unfortunately, the eternally poor customer support is seen as a major money sink by most large companies. This is why this particular branch of a lot of companies is outsourced to external companies.
Paying less for customer support in countries like India, Romania, etc. amounts to more profit reeled in by the company.
The game will change at CSM's initiative only on such subjects that involve the gameplay, the development of the game as a whole.
They will NEVER, and I stress never, allow outside people, much less customers, run their business for them.
You look like you require a bit of researching, or better yet, more life experience before taking on issues such as the quality of customer service (which has -always- been somewhere between poor and mediocre).
You wanna do something? Sue them. You feel like it's not worth it? Shut up. Because eventually, this is what most of the people will do, and as soon as a better product emerges on the market they'll be migrating in flocks.
Regards.
|
|

Sun Clausewitz
|
Posted - 2009.08.11 16:33:00 -
[291]
Ummm,if these guys worked in my department, they'd all be part of the growing number of people on unemployment.
One or two mistakes every now and then is fine, we are not that Jesus guy and are expected to make mistakes... but the sheer number of failures by the GM's leads me to only one conclusion... incompetence
Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |

Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
|
Posted - 2009.08.11 19:18:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Indigo Dean emo-rant
Yeah... I choose to shake my head and worry about more important matters.. like real life.
Not internet ships. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |

Kai Lae
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.11 21:29:00 -
[293]
And in other news, we have this fine thread:
Grab a snickers bar because this apparently will take a while
Nice response time. I mean, I'm a bit easy to please in the GM department. I played EnB after all, and petitions in EnB were frequently responded to by GM's saying "Thanks for playing Sims Online" for god's sake. But come on. Also, there's quite deep suspicion that low level GM's are possibly bots, since they always respond with canned messages and never - and I mean never - really fix anything. Sort of like trying to get an answer out of AUDIX when you call a company for customer support, same thing.
Also while you're at it, have a look at your customer support tools. As you can see here (from the same thread linked to above) anyone can respond to a feedback message, not just the person who sent the petition. The result can be seen by clicking on the message. While Vuk I'm sure dig's the gay **** in the responses (it's very 4s) I'm not sure if everyone else wants this sort of stuff on display in eve.
|

Red Raider
Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's
|
Posted - 2009.08.11 21:42:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Originally by: Indigo Dean emo-rant
Yeah... I choose to shake my head and worry about more important matters.. like real life.
Not internet ships.
The irony in this is fantastic. Not to mention that for someone who doesn't worry about internet space ships you certainly troll the forums with the best of the best.
Drake has been on a tear all day. Someone must have peed in his Cheerios.
On another note...supported...because the I just had to file a petition, gave what I consider all the pertinent information before hand because I looked it up prior to filing the petition. Then I got a response asking me for the d@mned information I just sent them in the original petition.
Now I asked to have the petition canceled and its been DAYS and its still open.

A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out. |

Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
|
Posted - 2009.08.12 05:53:00 -
[295]
in all honesty they have always done their best on my personal petitions.
From talking to others it appears this is not always the case and hte lack of overall consistency is alarming.
supporting. rig bpo & bpc sets LDS kb |

Bla QuaZebra
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.12 12:07:00 -
[296]
|

Indigo Dean
|
Posted - 2009.08.12 12:17:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Originally by: Indigo Dean emo-rant
Yeah... I choose to shake my head and worry about more important matters.. like real life.
Not internet ships.
Sir, your total lack of interest is here for all of us to see. Surely exactly this obvious real life orientation that you have is responsible for you posting extensively within this internet spaceshipz thread.
Your obvious trolling attempt has been noted as being very weak, and it denotes lack of arguments as well as an increased level of cowardice. 3/10
Get well soon.
|

Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.08.12 12:42:00 -
[298]
Outsource the whole regular GM system to an Indian call centre. They actually have a real chance to starve if they don't do their job, they have better English comprehension and likely don't play Eve, so far less low to medium level corruption.
You might need to train them about what a skill queue that has locked up YET AGAIN looks like, but once that is done, is all smooth sailing.
|

foksieloy
|
Posted - 2009.08.12 13:55:00 -
[299]
full support.
a friend of mine once reported the fire stuck bug, and after 3 months of being sent from a GM to a GM and telling each one that the missiles never get fired, they are not in the logs, or anything, final reply was: "Do you realize that if you have a missile group, all the missiles fly as one, and you only see one missile".
No **** sherlock. Flying a nighthawk, and only just realised that.
|

R053
U-208 Blade.
|
Posted - 2009.08.12 14:06:00 -
[300]
I haven't posted a lot of petitions, but yes, they can be quite uselss..
NHF, fellas. EVE Never Fades |
|

Damaclease
4S Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.08.12 20:08:00 -
[301]
|

javer
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.12 20:08:00 -
[302]
-------------------------------------------- Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience. |

Beta babe
|
Posted - 2009.08.12 20:10:00 -
[303]
Edited by: Beta babe on 12/08/2009 20:09:58
|

Kraknar
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.12 20:15:00 -
[304]
|

Cao JianWei
|
Posted - 2009.08.13 03:19:00 -
[305]
|

Hoo Is
|
Posted - 2009.08.13 13:49:00 -
[306]
Posting to confirm the GM's here are pretty much fail
Received a forum ban once... petitioned with about 1000000 examples of posts that fit the same description given for why I received the ban... simply asked why they were still posting and I was banned.
Never got an answer to that, just that my ban would remain in place. ---- a reply which adds nothing to a thread or results in a thread being bumped with no new discussion worthy content is considered spam and as such warrants a forum ban |

wootonius
Madhatters Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.08.13 14:50:00 -
[307]
This has been a problem for far too long. CCP really needs to invest in a community relations force to take back their game and finally start showing that they're here to serve their CUSTOMERS and not the other way around.
Forcing players to endure harsh consequences is one thing, not caring and employing over-worked, under qualified slackers is another.
|

Indigo Dean
|
Posted - 2009.08.13 16:00:00 -
[308]
A great idea would be to outsource it. This is where I used to work.
|

Lukac
I dont have that skill
|
Posted - 2009.08.13 22:44:00 -
[309]
|

Vuk Lau
|
Posted - 2009.08.14 08:07:00 -
[310]
Originally by: Indigo Dean A great idea would be to outsource it. This is where I used to work.
Well CCP already was/is outsorcing GMs, and it didnt went well as we can see, but then again as my ppl would say "The Fish Stinks from the Head" i am prety much sure that outsourcing is not the essence of the problem.
If there are proper procedures when recruiting GMs, testing their ingame knowledge and monitoring their work, it would limit the ammount of issues we are having now. Also branching the type of petitions is extremely bad and it needs to be reworked aswell. EVE is a complex world and even I (and I think that I am allrounded player with vast knowledge of mechanics) in many cases dunno how something "realy" works in EVE.
The problem starts when certain (or all, cant say) GMs are covering all kind of petitions. I had cases when same GM who was working on f.e. unstucking from Jita, is answering Sov related petitions where he doesnt have a clue either of what I am petitioning nor what he is answering to me. For certain type of petitions, like billing issues, unstucking chars, and further (cant check right now all they types) char transfer and similar issues you really dont need EVE Einsteins to handle them, cause tbh u need really narrow and shallow EVE knowledge to do that (and we still have 24+ time response on some of them)
For a long time I was pursuing that GMs need to actively play the game, and not just GMs but all CCP employers. I know that many CCP guys are playing as carebears, but I think (i can be wrong ofc, but its rare cases of me being wrong :D ) that there is not much CCP guys doing 0.0 serious warfare. I know that after T20 incident CCP got much more strict and afaik now if u r employed by CCP your accounts got on ice and you can play only with new anonymous new accounts. Somehow I think its not solving any problems, because I personaly think that T20 was CCP fault only in hiring hmm lets be nice and say - bad person, who was ******ed enought to spawn T2 BPOs. Lets be perfectly honest even now with much more improved and tightened internal procedured in CCP you can "theoreticaly" (I am prety much sure there are not any cases of this atm) leak certain info to your favorite ingame entity. Hell I am sure I could work for CCP, not play EVE at all and lead my alliance (also theoreticaly speaking). Only thing stoping me, and I think only thing which can stop at all CCP employes of not doing stupid stuff is their conscience. Same goes for GMs - let them play cause thats the only way for them to realy know what is going ingame. Its realy not enough for them just to spawn when node starts colapsing and to write in blue color in local chat.
I am completely aware that CCP has limited resources which can allocate to GM department but I am 100% positive (ofc I can be wrong :D but as said above its not a common thing to happen) that GM dept can be wastly improved - "Where there's a Will, there's a way"
I hope Lavista will not find this post whiny or unproffesional 
|
|

Lee Weiseng
|
Posted - 2009.08.14 14:53:00 -
[311]
|

Chuck Skull
b.b.k Fidelas Constans
|
Posted - 2009.08.14 17:34:00 -
[312]
. ---
Also available in 'sober' |

Cheyenne Shadowborn
Noob Much Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.08.14 17:57:00 -
[313]
Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 14/08/2009 18:07:59 The whole thing is TL;DR by now but so much:
I totally agree with the initial post. I have at this point very little trust in CCP to the point where I don't bother anymore with petitions, OR bug reports (e.g. because I am just being told to "recreate" a situation on the server thats evidently hard or impossible for me to recreate) or reporting ****posts like the phishing ones because the per-incident reaction is a joke, or reporting RMT, because they also only respond per incident without any visible intent to be improving anything without locking out a RMT'er for more than 5 minutes max.
Add to that the general suckage of the web tools, once you have written the same bug report thrice, it just ain't that important anymore (motivation, especially for helping a company for free, is a b****). I understand they are working on improving the web stuff, but then again was there actually a time when they were not?
It'd take a long time to regain some trust in any case even if they had any intent.
Also, I think its been said, lack of inter-departmental comms wtl.
I would add my own examples of glaring inconsistencies but it'll just get modded anyway so why bother.
Ultimately however, what he said, a couple of pages above, involving that dead horse and the beating.
--
|

Xikorita
Mob Thought
|
Posted - 2009.08.14 18:41:00 -
[314]
supported
|

Havant
|
Posted - 2009.08.15 13:58:00 -
[315]
FFS CCP, take notice.
|

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.08.15 17:06:00 -
[316]
got a copy/paste warning for a GM regarding hopping from alliances multiple times simply to avoid a war dec. Problem is, in addition to not having a war dec to dodge right now, that it would be easily dispelled by the quickest of checks on alliance history which obv the GM didnt want to spend the time to check.
Petitioned but no reponse for nearly 24 so i add this to the pile of complaints and want to warn people that if this isnt a mistake, those supporting this initiative vocally (as we've done on our podcast) might be targeted for harassment. ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |

Kat Bandeis
Virtual Rock Industries
|
Posted - 2009.08.15 19:29:00 -
[317]
I'd like to ask a basic question: if you are paying monthly for a subscription to Service 'X', do you think you should be getting competent support for use of that service? CCP is in business (ie, making money by providing a service) and should be providing it's customers with some level of support. The fact that it's an "internet spaceship game" is irrelevent.
I'm paying $15 per month for each of four accounts: that's $60 (US) per month, or $720 US per year to CCP for the use of their service. "It's just an internet spaceship game" is unacceptable to me: I'm paying good money to use this service, and I expect a competent level of support.
How much have YOU given CCP over the life of your account(s), and do you think the level of support you've received is adequate?
|

Indigo Dean
|
Posted - 2009.08.16 10:55:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Vuk Lau
Originally by: Indigo Dean A great idea would be to outsource it. This is where I used to work.
Well CCP already was/is outsorcing GMs, and it didnt went well as we can see, but then again as my ppl would say "The Fish Stinks from the Head" i am prety much sure that outsourcing is not the essence of the problem.
If there are proper procedures when recruiting GMs, testing their ingame knowledge and monitoring their work, it would limit the ammount of issues we are having now. Also branching the type of petitions is extremely bad and it needs to be reworked aswell. EVE is a complex world and even I (and I think that I am allrounded player with vast knowledge of mechanics) in many cases dunno how something "realy" works in EVE.
The problem starts when certain (or all, cant say) GMs are covering all kind of petitions. I had cases when same GM who was working on f.e. unstucking from Jita, is answering Sov related petitions where he doesnt have a clue either of what I am petitioning nor what he is answering to me. For certain type of petitions, like billing issues, unstucking chars, and further (cant check right now all they types) char transfer and similar issues you really dont need EVE Einsteins to handle them, cause tbh u need really narrow and shallow EVE knowledge to do that (and we still have 24+ time response on some of them)
For a long time I was pursuing that GMs need to actively play the game, and not just GMs but all CCP employers. I know that many CCP guys are playing as carebears, but I think (i can be wrong ofc, but its rare cases of me being wrong :D ) that there is not much CCP guys doing 0.0 serious warfare. I know that after T20 incident CCP got much more strict and afaik now if u r employed by CCP your accounts got on ice and you can play only with new anonymous new accounts. Somehow I think its not solving any problems, because I personaly think that T20 was CCP fault only in hiring hmm lets be nice and say - bad person, who was ******ed enought to spawn T2 BPOs. Lets be perfectly honest even now with much more improved and tightened internal procedured in CCP you can "theoreticaly" (I am prety much sure there are not any cases of this atm) leak certain info to your favorite ingame entity. Hell I am sure I could work for CCP, not play EVE at all and lead my alliance (also theoreticaly speaking). Only thing stoping me, and I think only thing which can stop at all CCP employes of not doing stupid stuff is their conscience. Same goes for GMs - let them play cause thats the only way for them to realy know what is going ingame. Its realy not enough for them just to spawn when node starts colapsing and to write in blue color in local chat.
I am completely aware that CCP has limited resources which can allocate to GM department but I am 100% positive (ofc I can be wrong :D but as said above its not a common thing to happen) that GM dept can be wastly improved - "Where there's a Will, there's a way"
I hope Lavista will not find this post whiny or unproffesional 
CCP: It's called -quality assurance-. Look into it.
Also, why don't you publically release your internal performance index for the customer service dept.?
Oh wait. That wouldn't make a difference since you guys aren't taking customer satisfaction into account with that index, is it?
Because, honestly, if you guys took customer appreciation into account with that index you'd prolly have to fire 3/4 of the dept. |

SupaKudoRio
|
Posted - 2009.08.16 12:23:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan What I really want to see is a GM operation that does more than CTRL+V "Our logs show nothing" to petitions.
A C&P "we are looking into the issue" response would be very nice for non-instant things. Would make me a lot happier at least. 
On another note, how do you like your pods in the morning? |

d4ve
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.16 13:21:00 -
[320]
|
|

qw3l
Great Wildlands Import-Export
|
Posted - 2009.08.16 13:22:00 -
[321]
|

Trebor DeCaldar
|
Posted - 2009.08.17 20:50:00 -
[322]
I would love to click on this and see a Blue Bar
|

Everseeker
Ivy League
|
Posted - 2009.08.17 21:20:00 -
[323]
I had 2 experiences with the Petition system... In the first one, I was sitting, cloaked up, in War, watching a gate.... The WT's in local began to taunt me... no big deal... You mom wears army boots stuff... But then, they "Went there"... deacribing in detail, what they wanted to watch me do with my son, and what they wanted to watch their dogs do to my daughter... Cut/Paste-to-petition/Logoff The next day there was a mail, from the head of their alliance, profusely apologizing for his... ex-team mates (He read what they had posted, then promptly ejected them from his alliance) Turns out the GM was pretty on-the-ball, IDing the people and mailing their management.... 1 step short of a ban, but it DID make me feel better.
The other one... kinda trivial in comparison, had to do with a procedural question re: submitting a bug, was answered in under 15 seconds... ( I mean.... I hit enter on the ticket, got in-game, took a sec to align, and there was a popup asking if I wanted to chat....)
So... my personal experience: GM=2, Forces-of-evil=0
HOWEVER, I support a more "open" policy on GM activity... possibly time-stamping petitions... auto-escalating if not acted on quickly...e-mail on any update to a petition.... EverSeeker |

Klaitu BenJohhn
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.18 03:50:00 -
[324]
I agree with the philosophy behind this thread, but having once worked in the MMO customer service field, I am perhaps more pessimistic about possible changes.
I have a few "Devil's Advocate" points that I've run into in the past which may be food for thought.
CCP is going to resist doing anything that costs more money. hiring more GM's costs money. Training the GM's better also costs money. A GM will only work for X amount of hours a day, and training time is not time spent working.
The people who are GM's are usually people who make so little money that they couldn't afford to play the game they are GMing for. They are stuck to a desk, and every aspect of their performance is monitored via the computer. They are no doubt required to answer a quota number of petitions per day, which their managers then use to determine if the amount of work they do is worth the amount they are being paid.
GM's and other customer service people are "caught in the middle" The players beat on them for sucking, and their management rides them like taskmasters. It is, truly, a thankless job.
When you first start as a GM, you may have visions of being the beacon that the players have been looking for, but you soon find out that your hands are tied to actually make any change that means anything.. and since your hands are tied anyway there are no qualms about the management and the players beating the idealism out of you.
You become a cog in a machine. You learn what your managers expect of you, and you provide exactly that, and not an inch more. Since your company likely prefers to run its current employees on 14 hour days instead of hiring more employees, you get to be a cog for most of your life. When you get home and collapse, the very last thing you want to do is play the game that you work for. You're lucky if you can muster up the willpower to even look at a computer screen.
It's not just the management that's the problem. You and I both know that Eve is chock full of scammers who would like nothing more to pull a fast one on a GM. The last thing a GM wants is to draw attention to himself by being scammed, and the management likely has draconian limits on exactly what GM's can and can't do in many situations for this simple reason.
On top of that, I'll wager that there are a ton of GM petitions that are complete garbage and aren't worth a GM's time anyway. In fact, I'd wager that most petitions are something that the player could have solved themselves. That's not to say that legitimate game problems happen, it's just that when it happens 2 out of every 500 petitions, they are easy to gloss over seeing as how you're not much more than a zombie powered by caffiene at this point.
The bottom line here is that CCP doesn't give Customer Service a very high priority. They don't give it a high priority because real, working customer service is very, very expensive for the company, and the company doesn't make hardly any money from the GM department. It's a giant sink in their budget that doesn't give anything back.
Let's face it, everyone on this thread is irked enough to post something, but few of them are actually willing to quit over it.. and so long as you're not quitting, then what does it matter how your game experience is? CCP still gets their money.
Do you want CCP to give Customer service more priority? They'll have to pull it out of some other department's budget. Which department should get the cuts first? What priority does Customer service hold in the grand scheme of CCP?
If you're going to talk straight to CCP themselves, it would be wise to have answers to these questions.
|

Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.08.18 05:10:00 -
[325]
I'm gonna call bull****, Klaitu.
Here's why: Any company that wishes to make money is going to have to spend it. The question is how much do you spend for how much gain? In the case of the support staff, I would venture that CCP could make more than they spend if they would un-**** the support.
That means: * Better training. * Better oversight (not micromanagement, but consequences for blowing off valid petitions) * More and more competent GMs. * A real commitment to excellence in customer support.
As I note in our most recent podcast (blatant plug), I have spoken personally with many people who have heard about EVE and the horror stories of the support. Like it or not, CCP has dug their own hole on this one and their support IS worse than other MMOs of their caliber. I have played quite a few and while clueless GMs are pretty common, the kind of stuff we see and have gotten so used to with EVE would have made any number of lesser MMOs auger in by now.
Fact is, EVE only survives its abysmal support and the frankly player-hostile perception that most people have of their GM team by dint of the fact that it IS such a great game. But that hole has a bottom.
CCP would do far worse than to spend some time and money repairing their reputation. Closing valid petitions in 3 seconds is not a good way to do it.
Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast |

Tashio Taifune
Rennfeuer Paxton Federation
|
Posted - 2009.08.18 11:17:00 -
[326]
|

Sun Clausewitz
|
Posted - 2009.08.18 17:28:00 -
[327]
Seriously, I've had better customer service at Wal-Mart
Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |

Vuk Lau
|
Posted - 2009.08.18 17:58:00 -
[328]
As a proof that there is a bit of hope for GM dept is something like this Awesome blog by GM Grimmi
|

Hoo Is
|
Posted - 2009.08.18 20:21:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Vuk Lau As a proof that there is a bit of hope for GM dept is something like this Awesome blog by GM Grimmi
That is proof that they are willing to go after people messing up their profits... not actually provide descent customer service ---- a reply which adds nothing to a thread or results in a thread being bumped with no new discussion worthy content is considered spam and as such warrants a forum ban |

Klaitu BenJohhn
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.08.18 21:17:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Jimer Lins I'm gonna call bull****, Klaitu.
Here's why: Any company that wishes to make money is going to have to spend it. The question is how much do you spend for how much gain? In the case of the support staff, I would venture that CCP could make more than they spend if they would un-**** the support.
That means: * Better training. * Better oversight (not micromanagement, but consequences for blowing off valid petitions) * More and more competent GMs. * A real commitment to excellence in customer support.
As I note in our most recent podcast (blatant plug), I have spoken personally with many people who have heard about EVE and the horror stories of the support. Like it or not, CCP has dug their own hole on this one and their support IS worse than other MMOs of their caliber. I have played quite a few and while clueless GMs are pretty common, the kind of stuff we see and have gotten so used to with EVE would have made any number of lesser MMOs auger in by now.
Fact is, EVE only survives its abysmal support and the frankly player-hostile perception that most people have of their GM team by dint of the fact that it IS such a great game. But that hole has a bottom.
CCP would do far worse than to spend some time and money repairing their reputation. Closing valid petitions in 3 seconds is not a good way to do it.
I agree with you, I'm just saying that CCP would have to invest money in improving their GM support, an investment which does not return very much profit.
From CCP's perspective, Eve is a successful, fast-growing game. Improving their GM support will not make Eve that much more successful, and it won't cause Eve to grow that much faster. That's why it's not high on their priority list now.
I hope that the petitions and the CSM are able to make some changes here, I just think that it's an uphill battle.
|
|

JitaPriceChecker2
|
Posted - 2009.08.21 20:38:00 -
[331]
This is to much.
My last petition was mentioning static wormhole. The GM didnt have a f****** clue what i am reffering too.
They said that there are no static wormholes !. Like wormhole form inside are random right ? RIGHT ?.
|

Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance Flight School
|
Posted - 2009.08.22 16:11:00 -
[332]
Bumping an important topic.
Also, I think that after spanning over 40 pages (last thread and this one) and over 1k player support replies CCP should take 10 minutes to post a GM/Dev response. However much CCP would like to keep the Status quo, I will not allow this issue to be swept under the rug - this is a real part of the service we pay for as players, as much as we pay for the hardware and the dev teams. We deserve a WORKING support system! And we DESERVE a reply to this thread, even if it is a plain acknowledgement that the issue at hand is being reviewed.
I think CCP is mistakenly believing that this issue is not important enough, and that we will forget about it in a month or so - I say they are wrong, and that PAYING CUSTOMERS will demand the full service they are paying for. So what will it be CCP - will you ignore us again? Lock this thread? or maybe grow some balls and face the issue, even if its to say that you wont change the system?
=======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |

Sun Clausewitz
|
Posted - 2009.08.24 17:23:00 -
[333]
Poasting on page eleventy-two to keep this topic high on the food charts
Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |

Lee Dalton
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.08.24 21:00:00 -
[334]
One time I had implants that I couldn't repackage and sell on the market. The GM response was that the implants had been "used before", and therefore couldn't be sold.  *** You're only as good as your last fight. |

Soulspatch
|
Posted - 2009.08.25 10:22:00 -
[335]
I had one bugged gun battery on my POS that I could not unanchor because it showed a crystal with 0 charges that I could not remove, clearly a bug. What to do? Partition GM's to fix it. GM's fixed the gun by removing the charge for me, sweet not problem I can finally unanchor this gun battery and reanchor it where I want it. This took almost to a week and a half for the GM's to get round to fixing.
Problem? In order to to fix the problem gun battery, the GM's emptied every single crystal storage bay on my all gun batteries. The GM's of course did not put the crystals back, they did not even put them in the hanger array on the POS, they did not even tell me they had taken all my crystals!!! The GM's are saying that they are unable to put the crystals back in the storage bays (policy). The GM's say they can not give them back to me, the logs do not show that I placed the crystals in the batteries. They say they can only give them to the corp CEO, who is seldom online. So far this has taken 5-6 weeks to get to this point and I still don't have my crystals back.
4 days ago, I asked for a senior GM to resolve this. I got another low level GM who I had to explain everything to. Today he finally asked me if I would like to take this further and have a senior GM look into it, duh, thats what I asked for 4 days ago. These guys don't know what they are doing and they do not read the partitions. There seems to be no guide or real rules for them to follow.
It is crap that a bug fix disadvange a player. I've lost a lot of crystals and my POS has been left in a weakened state due to no ammo reserve's. CCP stole my crystals and will not put them back where they got them from. Complete incompetence on the part of the GM's.
|

Valanan
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.08.25 11:24:00 -
[336]
|

Hoo Is
|
Posted - 2009.08.25 17:09:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Valanan
Even DevSwarm approves ---- a reply which adds nothing to a thread or results in a thread being bumped with no new discussion worthy content is considered spam and as such warrants a forum ban |

Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance
|
Posted - 2009.08.27 22:44:00 -
[338]
Bump.
Almost a month since this has started, and still no response at all from CCP. I'm starting to wonder if this is all a waste of time, as this whole sub-forum and the CSM. Is it really that hard to get a Dev/GM/rep to post anything, even if its damage control?
Also, I finally gave CCP another chance and petitioned a ship loss that happened due to docking mechanics being bull**** as usual. The petition (and another different one) have been "open" for 6 days now with no response at all- but then again, I've had a friend wait for a carrier to be reimbursed for a month, so I'll prob still be waiting till the new CSM gets elected next year  
=======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
|
Posted - 2009.08.28 10:12:00 -
[339]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 28/08/2009 10:12:39 supporting and tiny bit of improvement - i hope this includes BugHunters aswell
reading comprehension is at an all time low and ritalin wont help there. - putting the gist back into logistics |

Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance
|
Posted - 2009.08.28 22:06:00 -
[340]
Bump.
Never gonna give you up. =======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |
|

Stil Harkonnen
|
Posted - 2009.08.28 22:44:00 -
[341]
never gonna let you down.
read through some of the stories in here, and am once again posting here to add my support.
|

Mr Intel
|
Posted - 2009.08.29 05:31:00 -
[342]
Support to this thread, even if a month or 2 late 
Ive never personally had a problem with any GM's, due to the fact that ive only ever petitioned once, which was a bug in the modules, and the GM that responded handled everything quickly and professionally. Forget his name, but hats off to him 
Ideas i liked were Hiring more GM's, which would lift the load on the overtaxed petition system. Also i like the idea of testing GM knowledge and competency, as it is always nice to have the person able to fix my problems to actually know what im talking about. An internal testing/investigation team of CCP or senior GM personel could help root out a few of the "bad apples" that people seem to have trouble with.
|

Gilbert Savonnawong
|
Posted - 2009.08.29 15:47:00 -
[343]
Guess what, another dissatisfied customer here. Just for the thrill, the case where CCP conclusively lost me was a login issue that took weeks to investigate and involved mocking me with an answer containing instructions "if the petition was created ingame". (TBH I finally dicovered that the cause of problem was a stealth virus in my computer, but that does not change the fact that CCP support was outreagous and provided not simple zero, but negative help.)
Now to contribute to the thread. If you want to do something about the situation but - understandably - are not willing to assume the burden of taking legal steps against CCP, consider what i did. 1. I decided not to pay a single penny to CCP until the service is considerably improved. That means I sustain my subsrciption via GTC and PLEX purchases (want to stress that from legal sources only) - if i run out of ISK before the customer service issue is solved, then by-by Eve. 2. I also made sure that my friends who are potential customers are aware of the situation and wont even consider to pay a penny - as long as the problem persists. 3. I enacted a zero tolerance policy towards petition mishandling. In the future, any single time my petition is not treated as it should be, I post an article on my experience in a game mag or other place on the web where it can reach the gaming community. 4. Plus, I will address the GM in question in as a harsh and degrading way as it is possible within the scope of a civilized conversation.
|

Gilbert Savonnawong
|
Posted - 2009.08.29 16:25:00 -
[344]
Let me add a speculation on what will happen. It is entirely true that corporations spend as little on consumer support as possible. However CCP probably spends less than possible (or just the managers are utterly incompetent and/or undermotivated), and as a consequence its support department is easily the worst in the industry. This already limits costumer acquisition (also contributes to erosion of existing customer base, but that effect is minimal, so far), finally nullifying the profitability of Eve and thus killing the game. My guess is, the top management wont notice the scope of the prolem until it is too late, and then they will decide to squeeze out as much profit from Eve in the little time reamining, as possible. This will involve finally sacking the current service team, only to replace them with an even cheaper and even worse cadre.
One more note on historical comparison. I live in a country that was under (unofficial) Russian occupation and ruled by a puppet goverment during the communist era. Almost all of the official corpses - army, police, burocrats, etc. - developed a very characteristic pattern of behaviour (locally called "protecting the honour of the uniform") that included total denial of any problem, uncondicional support of any member of the corp despite the most excessive error or abuse committed, and suppression of critical voices. When CCP employees only notice forum threads like this one to close them, but make a big point not to write even a single reply, harrass ppl who dare to voice their dissatisfaction (see one reported case in this thread), or higher level GMs concur with the obviously stupid actions of lower level ones, that reeks of the odour of the same behaviour. Dear GMs, if you read this, learn from history for your own sake, this has spectacularly proven to be a self-destructive attitude.
|

ShadowGod56
|
Posted - 2009.08.29 17:53:00 -
[345]
supported
|

shuckstar
Hauling hogs
|
Posted - 2009.08.29 19:32:00 -
[346]
Supported and IBTL 
|

H0nkifyouloveafghanistan
|
Posted - 2009.08.30 07:21:00 -
[347]
supported, tired of getting crappy responses with the GM department and/or have the issue ignored
|

Vuk Lau
|
Posted - 2009.08.30 07:58:00 -
[348]
NEVER STOP SUPPORTING!!!!
|

fuze
Gallente Quam Singulari Cult of War
|
Posted - 2009.08.31 09:22:00 -
[349]
How about a petition I filed 3+ months ago and got this email said it was closed. That petition isn't in my list of previous petitions so its simply removed. What gives?
Haven't got the faintest clue why and what happened but I do know players have to keep indicating CCP's customer service still can be improved on.
|

Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 09:43:00 -
[350]
BUMP.
At first I was afraid I was petrified Kept thinking I could never live Without you by my side. But then I spent so many nights Thinking how you did me wrong And I grew strong
And I learned how to get along... =======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |
|

Tomarix Vindigo
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 11:26:00 -
[351]
I just deleted a petition after three full days without any reaction from the team. I think those GMs are all on vacation.
|

Mining Smurf
Shadow Veil Industrial
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 21:44:00 -
[352]
Having experienced the failure first hand of the petition/GM "support" system over a possibly hacked account, I wholeheartedly support this.
MS
|

Garok Nor
Blueprint Haus
|
Posted - 2009.09.02 03:54:00 -
[353]
------------------------------------------------- Items posted by me are in no way a reflection of the policies and/or opinions of my corporation or alliance. {though they maybe really ought to be} |

Juicy Gossip
|
Posted - 2009.09.08 21:02:00 -
[354]
Bumping and supporting.
GM incompetence is a major issue.
|

Bfoster
The Python Cartel.
|
Posted - 2009.09.09 15:13:00 -
[355]
Bump.. ------------
My Killboard- The Python Cartel |

The Optician
|
Posted - 2009.09.09 15:46:00 -
[356]
sounds good
|

Apple Boy
Viper Squad Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.09.09 19:42:00 -
[357]
another suggestion, start a document on the wiki with some of the lesser known, but frequently petitioned, game mechanics so people know how things are supposed to work. For example, I thought that if you logout without aggro that you can't get a 15 minute aggro timer, but if you light a cyno and logout without aggro and a minute passes and you're killed, your pod is given a 15 minute aggro timer and apparently this is an intended game mechanic. Considering that this is contrary to what many thought about aggression timers, it's something worth letting other players know. (Also, it's buggy, this leads to a cyno that never dies until downtime and your spawning in your medical station, but you still keep your clone which is awesome when you have a ton of skillpoints)
|

Crotch Goblin
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:57:00 -
[358]
bump
|

Holy Wanderer
|
Posted - 2009.09.16 05:15:00 -
[359]
/support
|

Marquis Dean
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:07:00 -
[360]
Total incompetents. Waiting TWO weeks for a reply to a petition just doesn't fit in the "customer service" accepted definition.
Start investing some cash in a ****ing call center *****s. So we could get instant telephone support. EVEN AMERICA ONLINE HAS CALL CENTERS.
Oh wait. These guys are way lower in terms of KPI (Key Performance Index). Not mentioning customer satisfaction because there is none. There is only disappointment. |
|

Fechura
|
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:23:00 -
[361]
Edited by: Fechura on 16/09/2009 11:23:29 Edited by: Fechura on 16/09/2009 11:23:13 Whats about BugHunter team?
I got a bug (ID 82646) reported 2009.07.30 22:11:04, and still it is not filtered.
1,5 month for a bug checking?
|

Skandrannon22
|
Posted - 2009.09.16 18:25:00 -
[362]
While most of my dealings with petitions have been just fine, a corp member just had to wait about 2-3 weeks for a hacking issue.
What did CCP do after he reported the hacking? Instant Ban. Now he can't post on forums. He made another account, contacted the GM, banned again. W T F ? ! one 1 !
Why? Why does it take weeks to resolve a hacking issue? Why does the user get absolutely no contact at all during this time except for being banned, or the eventual resolution.
What was done for the user about their 2-3 weeks of lost training time? Not a damn thing. What did they get for their multiple lost ships/isk/mods. Right about just enough to buy them back.
We all play this game, you know training time cannot be replaced with much else.
Why does it take soo long to track a hacking?
I also support a cleaner / clearer communication process, so we know whats going on while our accounts are banned/not working.
-Skan
PS. Why does this game have no phone support?
|

Red Thunder
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.09.16 19:58:00 -
[363]
It just took me about 15 replies to a petition and one escelation over a period of a month for one out of four GMs to realise that there is more than 15 minutes between 16:50 and 17:07 and reimburse me -_-
Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines |

Johnster
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.17 13:36:00 -
[364]
I think this is missing the main issue.
Join one of those alliances filled with GM's (I will not mention names) and i'm sure your petitions will be answered much faster.
You and your alliance will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
|

GavinCapacitor
|
Posted - 2009.09.17 18:35:00 -
[365]
Supporting OP as I have had several petitions where the GM clearly did not even read what I wrote (as in would suggest something I said I did in the first post). I don't even petition stuff anymore - like when that unexpected downtime happened, i had about 1/2 a mining mission done, and when I got enough stuff the site wasn't mined out so I couldn't complete the mission. I just mined the rest of it because I didn't want to deal with a petition.
Also, this is probably old, but one day I was reading the stuff on how BoB was cheating and how they treated (banned) the guy that exposed it. It made me sad.
|

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
|
Posted - 2009.09.19 05:40:00 -
[366]
Ok so I was in leadership for running a 0.0 alliance. I have had lots of dealing with lots of people.
I'd heard lots of stuff about the GMs. I've made lots of petitions. Generally speaking they have been good and straight forward afaik. 9/10 have led to "we will close this now and do what we do" So I cant exactly verify anything.
I have heard massive amounts of improper punishments being placed on players.
Friend who generally trades... got gagged for 24 hours. At around the 25 hour mark... the gm responds saying it was totally inappropriate to gag him and that he will then ungag him... but the gag had already been run out anyway. So he got entirely punished for doing nothing wrong.
There are many other situations where gms give bad information... for example. I have >5.0 sec status. Someone sees this and petitions to find out how to do it. Without asking me. Gm responds that it's impossible to have over 5.0 sec as that's the limit. That anyone who has over 5.0 would have to be a GM or an exploiter. The person who originally made the petition probably didnt drop my name but said person. Then when I got labelled exploiter. He contacts me saying im an exploiter and he's getting me banned. The result wasnt very good.
Despite all this. I still hadnt lost hope in the GMs.
Just now broke that for me. I was on sisi... but the cancer levels of sisi are at such high levels. So I start playing red faction guerilla. That starts crapping out. So I get into eve. I post in 1 channel and only 1 channel. "jitabros pc kronos" iow someone in jita pricecheck kronos. I never did get a response. 45 mins later I get global account gagged for the reason of "Because Jason Edwards"
this exact thing has happened to so many other people now. Gagged for no valid reason.
Something has to be done to fix this situation.
Allow public publishing of GM/CCP convos I think will be the first step toward this tbh.
You may not publish private communications from CCP, their agents or representatives or EVE Online volunteers without authorization.
This should change. It is without a doubt the cause of such a fog of war of the issue.
I think the system has become so poisoned that many people are making bad petitons in protest of the situation... which is what leads to so many more issues. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |

Crotch Goblin
|
Posted - 2009.09.22 23:06:00 -
[367]
Bump, because I'm still dealing with a petition that should have ended weeks ago and won't due to the ignorance and lack of knowledge from GM's. Get a ****ing clue or don't attempt to do a job you aren't capable of. Stop the robot responses. Stop talking to people that have far superior game knowledge than you like their idiots. Get with the program or get the **** out.
|

Lord Kazuhiro
|
Posted - 2009.09.23 05:14:00 -
[368]
Supported. Still have yet to get even a response from GM's/support on two problems. It has now been "THREE MONTHS" and two follow up messages/petitions each later. The support department for this game is easily on the top 5 worst of all time for any game. You know this when getting on a plane and flying to the company in a foreign country to talk in person to a GM is considerably faster and more reliable than e-mail and petitions.
My solution is start monitoring them and begin a mass firing of the lousy ones, (By my experiences, close to 80% of them. As I also figure there are only 4 or 5 total.)
|

Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.09.23 20:26:00 -
[369]
supported
+++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
|

Argonis Valentio
Senex Legio
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 08:56:00 -
[370]
I support this however doubt it will get past CSM and if it goes that far, past CCP.
This is more of an issue of sales rather than game-play. If such a problem existed, which it does, then it should have been addressed several years back when this was occurring. CCP has the add a response for why your leaving EVE Online as a customer. If it was due to this reason then you should have ticked the button which says, "Customer Support lacks Year 5 education" button.
With that said, here are a few more things CCP SHOULD do:
- Disclose ALL petitions to the public in an archive
- Allow GM's to be more flexible in their decisions based on the ETHICAL thing to do
- Actually pay attention to the RATING SYSTEM...I've given 0's for all but one petition
- Actually pay attention to why your losing customers
- Allow volunteers to assist in the process for low-moderate complaints (i.e. reimbursements of less than 5m etc)
- Fix the issue before actually moving to another petition - petitions should take no more than a day to fix, not 1 week...
Furthermore since it's impractical to have CSM decide this due to the complexity and amount of work that should be done to this on a regular basis this should be solely placed in the hands of a CCP employee or form a committee solely to deal with petition rules & policies.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: [one page] |