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Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
251
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 19:48:00 -
[571] - Quote
OP - please point to the marketing video from CCP that does not show people blowing each other up. This is a pvp game. Pvp is not your choice, it is your DESTINY. CCP: Fix Inferno war decs.-áAllies should not be free and unlimited. -á-á |

Drax Dremal
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 19:55:00 -
[572] - Quote
Hulkageddon for a week was just a nuisance. Hulkageddon for a month was still just a nuisance. Hulkageddon for more than a month will start to lower the playerbase. |

Juess
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 19:59:00 -
[573] - Quote
Drax Dremal wrote:Hulkageddon for a week was just a nuisance. Hulkageddon for a month was still just a nuisance. Hulkageddon for more than a month will start to lower the playerbase. I suspect that might be a giant case of "Working as intended." |

baltec1
1254
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 20:00:00 -
[574] - Quote
Drax Dremal wrote:Hulkageddon for a week was just a nuisance. Hulkageddon for a month was still just a nuisance. Hulkageddon for more than a month will start to lower the playerbase.
Only the ones that fail to adapt. |

Lexmana
Imperial Stout
497
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 20:11:00 -
[575] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Drax Dremal wrote:Hulkageddon for a week was just a nuisance. Hulkageddon for a month was still just a nuisance. Hulkageddon for more than a month will start to lower the playerbase. Only the ones that fail to adapt. Yeah, if anything it will strengthen the playerbase. Evolution. |

Haldor Rune
State War Academy Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 20:14:00 -
[576] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:baltec1 wrote:Drax Dremal wrote:Hulkageddon for a week was just a nuisance. Hulkageddon for a month was still just a nuisance. Hulkageddon for more than a month will start to lower the playerbase. Only the ones that fail to adapt. Yeah, if anything it will strengthen the playerbase. Evolution.
Goonswarm has a bunch of economists and people good with calculators, right? I'm sure they predicted what the long-term effects would be before they committed to Unending Hulkageddon. If the playerbase also evolves as a result, then their mission (or, at least, part of it) will actually be complete! |

Drax Dremal
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 20:49:00 -
[577] - Quote
Oddball Six wrote:I do not live in my mother's basement. I am fortunate enough to have full time employment as a fairly successful Solution Architect for a Global consulting firm. I play from a custom built home office and hotels all over the United States. My identity is defined as a father, a husband, and a businessman. Eve has woven itself in as an on-again, off-again diversion where for the last three years I can apply business acumen and some custom tools to build an industrial marketer and manufacturer. Eve is a fun low pressure environment where I make the conscious choice to forgo combat and low sec rewards to maintain the low stress nature of this pursuit. Recently, I was killed mining and even podded in high sec. Losses in my ship of 300mil plus, implant losses of something on the order of a billion and change. Why? Because CCP has chosen by its inaction to allow a loose coalition of players to reward collective behavior against the engineered system of penalties and policies that are intended to make high security zones a low risk, low reward environment. I petition CCP to consider the policy and natural violations that the inaction to date represent, and also suggest a system of natural Consequences which may be of use in curbing such competitions like 'hulkageddon' - or at least limit them to the low- and null-sec systems where they belong. Recognizing the Violations of CCP PolicyAn external competition like hulkageddon depends upon players allying and indeed competing to determine which player is most willing to ignore the disincentives engineered into the game which protect players who participate in high security systems. Indeed the competition organizers have created systematic logs denoting and ridiculing the expressions of distress or outrage by affected players: Quote:" The same cannot be said for the 5000 poor fools that have been deshipped in the first half of this yearGÇÖs Hulkageddon, with over a trillion isk in damages done so far. This hulkageddon has exceeded our wildest expectations. I am so very proud of all our great competitors, and remember the race for the gold is not yet over!" - http://hulkageddon5.machine9.net/?p=96Yet CCP has denoted conduct such as this which determines to interfere with the operation of the system and the enjoyment of other players as verboten through at least two provisions. Quote:"Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy. " -http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp The terms of service at http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp specifically forbids role playing that interferes with others enjoyment of the game as well as forbidding conduct which disallows others to enjoy the game. By organizing large scale operations to eliminate players engaging in high sec mining operations, and entire sector of game play is disrupted. By CCP's own statistics, thousands of players have already been affected in this way to date. Quote:"A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account." -http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336 In the Knowledge Base published by CCP, as well, we find a definition of griefing and its specific prohibition of players deriving a significant portion of their time to game tactics that derive their enjoyment through the harassment of other players ourside of genuine pvp conflict such as corporation wars. Recognizing Inaction as Counter to Real Life AnalogsOne of the other clear guides CCP has applied to player conduct is the consideration of the real life treatment of the analog of the player conduct in a real society. Were a real life band to conspire to affect markets by systematically attacking mining operations, there is ample precedent to recognize that governments and international organizations would act. The grounds to do so are numerous.
- Systematic attacks on the unarmed
- Collusion to manipulate market dynamics
- Collusion to destroy an entire class of entity
We would see concerted action on multiple fronts from the US, the EU, and the UN. Antitrust hearings. Courts and tribunals. Resolutions and committees. CCPs response in the role of the international arbitration? Absent. A Simple ResponseI would suggest the response is simple and two pronged.
- Concord notices the drop in the markets and in order to ensure the supposed stability of the universe, have placed a couple of concord ships resident in high sec asteroid belts only in addition to their current locations.
- CCP begins warning and taking action against blatant high sec offenders.
Anecdotal evidence has already started to surface of player discontent with allowing these actions to remain unpunished and indeed unrestrained. I question how long CCP will wait to allow bands of players to flagrantly collude to ignore intended game mechanics and deny greater segments of the player base the enjoyment of the chosen virtual profession that keeps the real-life game revenue coming in.
I agree. CCP needs to stop any actions that destroy the balance of the game. |

Onyx Nyx
Perkone Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 20:56:00 -
[578] - Quote
Drax Dremal wrote:
I agree. CCP needs to stop any actions that destroy the balance of the game.
I have a big glaring balance issue with the game that I find ultimately ruins EVE.
My negative sec status.
Let me back into hi-sec, I promise I'll be good.
|

Atomic Virulent
Dark Matter Industrial
104
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:00:00 -
[579] - Quote
Brillaint post. However, your argument falls on demented ears. CCP make up much of GSF and allies. CCP Soundwave for example is a "former" Goon director. He is essentially the public face of CCP. Doesn't that make you all warm inside? |

Onyx Nyx
Perkone Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:03:00 -
[580] - Quote
Atomic Virulent wrote:Brillaint post. However, your argument falls on demented ears. CCP make up much of GSF and allies. CCP Soundwave for example is a "former" Goon director. He is essentially the public face of CCP. Doesn't that make you all warm inside?
It gets me warm and fuzzy, just thinking about how much you cringe at the fact that CCP Soundwave is ex-Goon.
edit: CCP Sreegs is the ex-CEO (Darius Johnson) of Goonswarm and he is the head of security. Spontaneous self-combustion next? |

Khadann
First Legion
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:09:00 -
[581] - Quote
ShipToaster wrote:Sandbox.
Still i give the post author a + 1 for posting with a real character and +1 for brining the legal espects in the topic |

Galadriel Vasquez
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:35:00 -
[582] - Quote
Well, I have read all of this thread and I laughed at some of it and am concerned at other areas. Firstly let me say that while losing a pod with that much isk in is a right pisser and would make you sad panda I have to say you brought it on yourself - you should have known that it was open season on Hulks and you should have Dscan on permanently - see Combat Probes? GTFO! Paranoia is your friend in New Eden!
I genuinely hope your bad experience does not cause you to quit and I apply that to all Hulkageddon victims - and before you ask, no I don't gank Miners and I have no alts that do either. Though if I saw you mining in Null and you were red or orange then I would blow you to bits. Unlikely though as no sane Egger mines in enemy Sov right?
Finally to Mittens and his cohorts - I kind of get what your doing and why but be careful what you wish for. I feel our game is at an important junction. I have tin foil hat trained to 5. |

W0z3R
Opportunist Enterprise
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 00:36:00 -
[583] - Quote
Interesting read |

Oddball Six
Oddball Corp
77
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 00:58:00 -
[584] - Quote
Hauling Hal wrote:To the OP, if you are as successful in real life as you imply, why do you care? tl/dr
Because wild sex that is illegal in 7 states takes no more than an hour a day.
More seriously, as far as I am concerned, major cred for the oatmeal reference. Love that site. And for any who haven't worked at any of the the Seattle, WA, USA major tech / consulting firms, some of the passive aggressive crap in the comics on TheOatmeal is JUST how it is. I once went into one of the bathrooms at the braeburn office in Bellevue and someone had put up a paper taped to the mirror about how the toilets cry when people miss when they pee. Seriously. With a picture of a toilet crying. |

Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 02:56:00 -
[585] - Quote
OP: the key phrase in the EULA is "at CCP's discretion". That means they don't have to lift a finger if they don't want to and it's non-binding.
Should they or shouldn't they is a valid question, but logically speaking not on the grounds you've presented in your opining post as they have an out. I <3 Vexors. |

Samuel Wess
SW Consulting
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:07:00 -
[586] - Quote
It just shows a badly architected fitting solution for a hulk.
On the other hand the predators are dependent on their prey, over hunting will exterminate both. |

Nirnias Stirrum
Tr0pa de elite. Against ALL Authorities
180
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:29:00 -
[587] - Quote
Funny thing is if you had fitted at least some tank you would never have died, would never have created this thread and would never have made an absolute fool of yourself to the entire eve community.
Since you have all those shield implants, if you had fitted some shield tank that catalyst would of died long before he even got half your shield down.
It would take at least 4 catalysts to gank a hulk fast enough before concord response.
In short, you fail sir. |

Drax Dremal
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:23:00 -
[588] - Quote
CCP does not seem to care what players want. |

Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:34:00 -
[589] - Quote
Drax Dremal wrote:CCP does not seem to care what players want.
You're right, that's why they created EVE Online and have updated it consistently for 9 years now, because the players never wanted it. |

RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:40:00 -
[590] - Quote
Drax Dremal wrote:CCP does not seem to care what players want.
No, CCP does not share your vision of a pacifistic, safe, boring thempark MMO in Space. Their players seem to like that, since Subs have been up every year since release 9 years ago.
If you don't like it... I'd say there's the door, but... Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |

baltec1
1313
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:20:00 -
[591] - Quote
Samuel Wess wrote:It just shows a badly architected fitting solution for a hulk.
On the other hand the predators are dependent on their prey, over hunting will exterminate both.
We also hate it when people tank them. |

Vicata Heth
The Primary is Primary
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 07:48:00 -
[592] - Quote
I like how the OP assumes there is some high court in eve that his legalese mumbo jumbo will appeal to. News flash, EVE doesn't work like the real world. People don't play games because they want them to be like the real world. As a matter of fact most people play mmos, more specifically sandbox mmos, because they're different from the real world. Whether that's escapism, boredom, or simply a way to kick back, relax, and enjoy the rest of your day after work, is dependent on the player. Point is though, this is EVE, not real life.
If you think spewing your legalese crap in a video game is going to do anything but make people point and laugh at your delicious tears, you are VERY sadly mistaken. You lost a ship, and if you're an active miner I'm sure you've got the isk to replace it. Your time would have been better spent researching why you died and how to prevent it in the future. But alas it appears learning is a foreign concept to you, and anything that doesn't work how you want it to work must be changed. Instead you chose to write a wall of text about why CCP should change game mechanics that the majority of the community enjoys this game for, so that you can mine in peace.
Had you been paying attention, you wouldn't have lost your pod at the very least. If you had a clue about any aspect of EVE other than how fast your hulk can mine roids, for example, how to use your directional scanner, or even adding combat probes to your overview, you probably wouldn't have lost your ship either. On top of that if you bothered to pay attention to anything other than how much veldspar was in your hold, you'd have known that hulkageddon was active. You would have also known that mining in an untanked hulk during hulkageddon was about the dumbest, most careless decision you could have made.
I don't mine anymore, and to be honest I never mined much when I did. My total mining time is probably under 24 hours worth. However even though I don't mine, I still took the time to learn the mechanics. I still take the time to fit a mining ship in EFT to see how much tank it can achieve, and how much ore it can mine. I actively learn the game mechanics, every day I play EVE I learn a new mechanic. If I were you, I would stop crying every time something happens that I don't like, and instead use that energy to educate myself about the mechanic that caused the action I did not want.
Here's a protip for you, if it costs more to blow your ship up than you will lose as a result, your ship probably won't be looked at by gankers much.
This wall of text is starting to compete with yours though. So I'm going to leave this as my final statement.
EVE is not real life, you are not safe, ever, and your ignorance is not reason to change game mechanics that have been in place long before you started playing this game. This is MY EVE, and you should consider yourself lucky you have the privilege to play target practice with us.
EDIT: Oh, and by the way, I didn't even read the OP. I already knew pretty much everything you said, and the type of theme park lover that you are from the quotes in the ganker's response. |

Valya Niell
Lobster of Babel The Dark Nation
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 09:45:00 -
[593] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I have no KM to go on so I will assume you failed to tank your ship while mining when a very well known event was going on. Welcome to EVE, a PVP game full of nasty pirates and terrorists who love people who fail to protect themselves in even the most basic way.
Best you get used to EVE as it is not advertised as a dark and hostile game for nothing.
First, i would like you to point me to where this advertisement is. Second, it is no longer a question of dark and hostile as it is a question of CCP's blatant disregard of their own policies.
Quote:"A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account."
by this definition any of the players participating are not griefers unless they don't accept the imposed bounty. however this still violates the policy of not taking from others enjoyment of the game. counterpoint: some taking of the enjoyment from others is inherrent in all MMO's.
I do believe that a concerted game wide effort goes beyond the call for action from ccp. (if to do nothing other than reword their own policies).
However what i want to see is concerted efforts to take the enjoyment from the people who take it from us industrialists. i propose a sort of coalition or something to rip the control back, re-establish our roles. if these efforts exist already point me them so i may support them. as for you goonies. quit trolling, or at least let me in on the bounty you get for bombing threads against you into a flame war.
PS: i'm curious, do those subscription counts include people paying for multiple accounts and how do they take in to consideration counts deactivated at all.
XTreme Industries: Take back your roids! winners not whiners. If you care about your game experience take it back or find a different game experience to hate. Goonsquad: now offering bounties to troll and flame. inquire within. |

Plaude Pollard
Crimson Cartel
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 10:14:00 -
[594] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:baltec1 wrote:Year on year EVE has grown and in all that time miners have died. Really? In 2010, I really can't remember less than 50k players on weekends, sometimes around 58k. When I started my first account, almost three years ago, it wasn't unusual to see more than 60k pilots online. Over the last month, I've never seen more than 35k online, and hell, when I logged in last night, there weren't even 30k online. Why? Because Hulkageddon is making it impossible to mine in peace, which makes miners quit the game entirely.
Last Wednesday evening, my main's corp was having an Ice-mining operation, in order to fuel our POS. Normally (even during Hulkageddon) we would see about Mining Barges, Mackinaws and Orcas lying in the Ice Field, but that evening there were only 10 ships total. Our 8 and another Orca with a single Mackinaw. And no, we didn't bot-mine. We didn't AFK-mine. In fact, we had our ships tanked out and even stored a Kitsune in the Orca, which one of us would switch to when we saw non-mining ships on D-Scan, and prepare to jam anyone the moment they started aggressing us. We didn't need our tank nor the Kitsune, but we still brought the means to defend ourselves. There were 10 people mining ice, out of the usual 50. If that figure applies everywhere, it would mean that 80% of all miners have quit because it's too dangerous (or they've moved to more hostile environments or just learnt to spread out to make it hard for the gankers to rack up lots of kills quickly). |

Valya Niell
Lobster of Babel The Dark Nation
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 10:21:00 -
[595] - Quote
on the bright side the outflux of miners has bottomed out the market... oh wait no because the suicide gankers have their own miners that produce stuff and eat the profit from resupplying the ganked... XTreme Industries: Take back your roids! winners not whiners. If you care about your game experience take it back or find a different game experience to hate. Goonsquad: now offering bounties to troll and flame. inquire within. |

Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
328
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 10:59:00 -
[596] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Drax Dremal wrote:CCP does not seem to care what players want. No, CCP does not share your vision of a pacifistic, safe, boring thempark MMO in Space. Their players seem to like that, since Subs have been up every year since release 9 years ago. If you don't like it... I'd say there's the door, but...
It doesn't need to be a pacifistic safe boring MMO in space, neither does it have to be a greifers paradise, which it currently is. If they do balance it and you don't like it , I'd say there's the door, but....
Also the current lvl of misery being caused by low and null sec trying to dictate what hi sec is hasn't been such a big issue for 9 years, we will only as players (CCP probably already knows) what the affect on numbers has been in 6 months to a year. Quoting historical numbers doesn't really count.
Remember your motto "We don't want to ruin the game, just your game". you come into a game with that attitude then ppl will push back and perceive you as just that, greifers (true or false)
Tal |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7619
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 11:09:00 -
[597] - Quote
Plaude Pollard wrote:When I started my first account, almost three years ago, it wasn't unusual to see more than 60k pilots online. Yes it was. Three years ago (2009), the PCU record was 53k players. GǣAlmostGǥ three years ago (early 2010), the PCU record was 56k. Less than two years ago (mid 2010), the PCU record finally broke 60kGǪ
GǪthe record was 60k. It didn't get close to that until early 2011 when a new PCU record was set at 63k.
So would you like to 'fess up now which part it was you were lying about? Your age, the PCUs you were seeing, or all of it? When you started your account, almost three years ago, it wasn't just GÇ£unusualGÇ¥ to see more than 60k pilots online GÇö it never even happened until over a year later. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Be a smarter newbie, don't fall into the trap of lvl V skills. |

Sekket
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 11:12:00 -
[598] - Quote
Oddball Six wrote:I do not live in my mother's basement. Recently, I was killed mining and even podded in high sec. Losses in my ship of 300mil plus, implant losses of something on the order of a billion and change. Why? Because CCP has chosen by its inaction to allow a loose coalition of players to reward collective behavior against the engineered system of penalties and policies that are intended to make high security zones a low risk, low reward environment.
I petition CCP to consider the policy and natural violations that the inaction to date represent, and also suggest a system of natural Consequences which may be of use in curbing such competitions like 'hulkageddon' - or at least limit them to the low- and null-sec systems where they belong.
I was feeling some sympathy for your position until I took a glance at the kill mails that others posted.
You died to a single Catalyst.
Your Hulk had 3 empty mid slots and you had over half a billion isk worth of shield implants in your clone.
You lost your ship due to your own negligence, and your post smells of troll. - CQ isn't a refuge, it's a cage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iu4iekX3WE |

Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 11:16:00 -
[599] - Quote
My favourite part of this is thread is how the op starts out like a personal ad on Adult Friendfinder. >.>
|

Gonada
The Oasis Group Combat Mining and Logistics
11
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 11:54:00 -
[600] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote:Honestly, I think you could have started here - "Recently, I was killed mining and even podded in high sec." Why do we need to hear your life story before you go on about being killed? lol
Probably because he wanted to show that he was an intelligent fellow, unlike you, CEO of a butt |
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