I'd shout at him if he were using a solid gold spatula.

And he'd rightly tell you to GTFO because he's not paid to bring in the correct spatula, he's using what he's been given by his superior, go blame the superior.


[quote=RubyPorto]
You don't have to be invulnerable, just less vulnerable than the other guy in the belt.

If you're not happy with the ISK/effort you get while mining, don't mine. If you are happy with it, stop whining.

Suicide Ganking recently got nerfed too. Insurance stopped paying. That's why we use destroyers instead of Thoraxes and Brutixes.

Out of 600 hulks and macs that we killed in the caladri ice interdiction not a single one was tanked. So I fully belive that 99% of killed miners have little to no tank fitted.

Patently false. You might refer to hobbyst gankers, the real ones play exactly like miners: they strip the belt.
Miners strip the belt off minerals, real suicide gankers have their own logistics so they stay there and get up to 70 kills before moving on. Covetor, Retriever, Hulk, Mackinaw they are all fair game, they don't need to care about who is weaker because it just maps to 1 less catalyst to warp in, that's it.

What "modifications" do you think are needed? Your averatge mission Tengu has about the same EHP as a tanked up Hulk, and costs 2-5 times as much. If you want to run a 'Tengugeddon' event then go for it - stepping up and organising it is the only "modification" that's required.

Personally I think that would be great. LP prices have sunk dramatically lately and I could do with some competition removing.

If they're stripping the belt, unless you're unlucky and are the first hulk hit, just warp off when you see hulks blowing up around you.

Regardless, my point stands. If you are unhappy taking the risk of mining in a Hulk during Hulkageddon, don't mine in a Hulk during Hulkageddon. Mine in something else or don't mine.

You're using a solid gold spatula to flip burgers at McDonalds. No wonder you're getting mugged.

Indeed, this actually hurt my wallet as I had some nice BPOs (I make money selling minerals, selling mining ships AND selling gank ships, this is why I have a really neutral vision, I make money anyway).

But what changed?

What changed is the name of the ship (find Brutix replace with Catalyst).
Then they indeed removed insurance making but replacing a gank ship with one that does NOT need an insurance to still be vastly profitable achieved to change nothing.

I mean - once again - they changed everything in order to not change anything.

From

loot value > more gank cost + insurance

to

loot value > less gank cost (< loot value)


The change has been "neutral" to the outcome, it's not a real nerf except on the BPO holders.

I am not talking about Hulkageddon, all the things I described above happened in the past months.
Also, "belt stripping" is something that happens on multiple systems (look at how Bat Country work) so there's not really a lot that can be done except stopping.

Also, you might as well stop talking like *I* am mining in an Hulk. The only mining ship I can fly is a Bantam.

so why should we believe that you'd stop whining if the Hulk got an EHP buff?

A cheapfit Catalyst is around 5m. 25m isk to gain ~10m in loot for a tanked hulk sounds like a great deal to me too.

EDIT: A Meta 0 Catalyst is 2m. Unfortunately it doesn't fit on CPU. Silly Scram.

Sadly I don't have the time to organize that. I could toss some sponsorship money though.

Where do you do your shopping? Looking on EVE Central, with a little bit of shopping around you can get a Cata hull for 1-1.2 million ISK, 3x meta2 Linear Flux Stabilisers for about 74k each, 1x meta0 Warp Scram for 50k (which incidentally you only need on one gank cata, not all 5) and 8x meta1 Regulated Light Neutron Phase Cannons for 60k each. Caldar Navy Antimatter is about 666 ISK per round, so being optimistic and going with 15 rounds per gun is about 80k. That adds up to 1.8-2.0 million, and it fits just fine with Weapon Upgrades 4 alone.

Game balance is about balancing gameplay, not balancing whining.

And if they do you bring in more guns. In the end the miner always loses.

Before Barges and Exhumers were released, mining battleships ruled the roost. That's what the baseline is for mining. Hulks are higher yield, lower tank than the baseline.

WellGǪ higher yield and higher tank. But close enough.

Before the new CPU rigs, a Rokh had a spare low that couldn't be filled with a MLU, so a Co-Proc and tank could be fitted.

I pointed out the insurance Nerf to point out the fact that it's not a buff to the Hulk/nerf to the Gankers that the miners want, it's the banning of the practice of suicide ganking entirely. The calls for buffs/nerfs are just the baby steps they're trying to get through on the way.

You got gankers nerfed (it now costs ~15m or so to kill a tanked Hulk when it used to cost ~10m in an insured Brutix). You're not happy with that. You got miners income buffed (Drone poop nixed, a good thing overall), and you're not happy with that.

Years ago, you got CONCORD buffed to what it is today (before the buff, Suicide Ganks involved a lot less suicide), and you're not happy with that.

If we buff Hulks, whaddya wanna bet you won't be happy with that?

Anyway, the miners are using a Solid Gold Spatula to flip burgers at a McDonalds in South Central LA, and expressing surprise and anger when they get robbed.

So 10m worth of ships to kill a hulk that drops an average of ~10m isk.
5 people spending at least 15m (GCC cooldown limits the rate of ganking) to maybe break even, or if they're very lucky (20m drop), make 2m each (compensating for a bad loot drop earlier, maybe).

Sounds really profitable.

And if they do you bring in more guns. In the end the miner always loses.

It's simple, just think of eve as being like WW II

Well, those 5 Catalysts will drop an average of about 4-500k ISK each in modules as well, so if they break even from the Hulk gank (and your numbers there aren't including the T2 salvage from the Hulk which could add a few more million in profit) they'd each be 4-500k better off overall. More to the point, the fact that there's no overall ISK cost for the ganks means there's no economic discouragement, like there is for every other ship.

Anyway, the miners are using a Solid Gold Spatula to flip burgers at a McDonalds in South Central LA, and expressing surprise and anger when they get robbed.

Jesus...

What "modifications" do you think are needed? Your averatge mission Tengu has about the same EHP as a tanked up Hulk, and costs 2-5 times as much. If you want to run a 'Tengugeddon' event then go for it - stepping up and organising it is the only "modification" that's required.

Personally I think that would be great. LP prices have sunk dramatically lately and I could do with some competition removing.

And the Gameplay is fine. Hulks give up defensive ability to gain a little more yield.

You can alpha a 1bil tengu in a tornado and kill most transports in a destroyer. Like everything if you fit no defences and people can profitfrom your death they will go for it.

Gameplay isnt fine, Hulks have to give up all defensive ability to gain a little more yield.