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How the new "Multi-Sized Rigs system" may or may not ruin pvp

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Proxyyyy Caldari Aenigmata	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:25:00 - [1] I would just like to open the floor to people who feel that their are serious down sides to making rigs more affordable... Does it not bother anyone and im speaking to thoughs who enjoy solo pvp mostly. That it will in many cases make destroying ships of frigate af and bc class very difficult increasing the time it would take to destroy them. Enabling a pilot to call for support or in most cases just tank u forever unless neuts where applied but still the argument is the same the engagment would last longer. Not only that it would seem that with added peral involved in such under taking then the only option pilots would be forced to have is flying in small gangs or large fleets to increase the chances of sucess in a short time to gtfo... What i enjoyed about eve pvp that it was fun and fast, you have to react very fast to circumstances and environments that change very rapidly in engagements that lasted within a short time frame. "To me it was like high speed chess" Also pvp in it self is expensive thoughs who fly as much as i do can testify to this. Introducing small rigs increases the cost of pvp by waht seems like to me 30 - 45 %. Now what fool woudnt adapted to new situations, and also buy small rigs to compete with lets say another t1 rifter pilot who in most likely is'nt so *****ed or lacks some sort of want for preservation like most " care bears/mission bears" taht they wudnt tank the fok out of that rifter. many wud make the same assumption, that not rigging your t1 ship "would be fail". I would just like other people's opinion. Obviously its not just about rigs the module it self but, how it affects pvp and how pvp in general seems to be getting nerfed with these "Changes".
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:26:00 - [2] Could you at least wait until they're actually seeded on the market and people actually start using them before doom mongering?
Ecky X	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:29:00 - [3] 45% more shield on a Rifter is not game-breaking.
4THELULZ	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:31:00 - [4] Originally by: Proxyyyy I would just like to open the floor to people who feel that there are serious down sides to making rigs more affordable... Does it not bother anyone and I'm speaking to those who enjoy solo pvp mostly. That it will in many cases make destroying ships of frigate af and bc class very difficult increasing the time it would take to destroy them. Enabling a pilot to call for support or in most cases just tank u forever unless neuts where applied but still the argument is the same the engagment would last longer. Not only that it would seem that with added peril involved in such under taking then the only option pilots would be forced to have is flying in small gangs or large fleets to increase the chances of sucess in a short time to gtfo... What I enjoyed about eve pvp that it was fun and fast, you have to react very fast to circumstances and environments that change very rapidly in engagements that lasted within a short time frame. "To me it was like high speed chess" Also pvp in itself is expensive those who fly as much as I do can testify to this. Introducing small rigs increases the cost of pvp by what seems like to me 30 - 45 %. Now what fool woudnt adapted to new situations, and also buy small rigs to compete with lets say another t1 rifter pilot who in most likely isn't so ****ed or lacks some sort of want for preservation like most " care bears/mission bears" that** they wudnt tank the fok out of that rifter. many would* make the same assumption, that not rigging your t1 ship "would be fail". I would just like other people's opinion. Obviously its not just about rigs the module itself but, how it affects pvp and how pvp in general seems to be getting nerfed with these "Changes". Right, that's most of that fixed, now would someone mind explaining in English what the hell this guy is whining about?
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:40:00 - [5] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/08/2009 18:42:10 Originally by: Proxyyyy I would just like to open the floor to people who feel that their are serious down sides to making rigs more affordable... Does it not bother anyone and im speaking to thoughs who enjoy solo pvp mostly. That it will in many cases make destroying ships of frigate af and bc class very difficult increasing the time it would take to destroy them. Enabling a pilot to call for support or in most cases just tank u forever unless neuts where applied but still the argument is the same the engagment would last longer. I do solo PVP a lot of the time, all my BCs were always rigged (cheaply), and I do not find it the least bit gamebreaking. You just need to fit for DPS - like you always did if you wanted to do the quick gank. The only thing which is really changed is now T1 cruisers are going to be rigged by default and therefore more potent; but they're still going to die preety quickly.
Removal Tool Two Minutes Hate	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:42:00 - [6] If the small rigs are cheap enough, Destroyers will rival Assault Ships, Ishkur will still be the best AF, and the good T1 cruisers will be even better (Rupter!) And I guess T2 cruiser hulls will be cheaper to fit. Same for BC/CS if they use Med sized rigs as I expect. Hopefully more noobs will feel capable of pvp.
Hidden Snake Caldari More-Cowbell	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:44:00 - [7] Well what is ccp doing wrong that they are killing small gang solo warfare by permanent increase of tank of the ships and nerfing gank. This is strategy to help new players, but it kills the best part of pvp. Lets see what happens with this ¦rig my rifter¦ frenzy now.
Proxyyyy Caldari Aenigmata	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:45:00 - [8] Edited by: Proxyyyy on 20/08/2009 18:48:28 Originally by: Ecky X 45% more shield on a Rifter is not game-breaking. Well it would be nice to just wave it off as just as simple as that, im not sure you understand what the new application of these riggs will be. Since the new rigging system scales (3 cap control circuit1-2) will be a norm on rifters possibly most will relize that a duel repping setup will be more viable which would mean t1 frigates preforming like af's... Small Armor Repairer II Small Armor Repairer II dc II 1MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S Nos Cap control circuit I Cap control circuit I Cap control circuit I Mind you i didnt add the t1 cruiser class or bs cause they wont realy be affected by this the rupturewill still own its jsut that it may be duel repped, in facted i think this might bring in a new age of active tanking over buffer tanking...
Psiri	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:46:00 - [9] downsides 1) an undeserved indirect nerf to BS 2) nerf to cheapfits, as rigs now will be commonly used by everyone upsides 1) More fun ship fits made viable (IMO) 2) Benefitting players who already were always rigging their ships anyway (errr.. wouldn't really call this an upside) IMO it's a good change but PvP desperately needs to be more lucrative than it currently is. Increase module drop rate from wrecks, bring more people down to lowsec, reduce the cost of ships.. anything.
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:48:00 - [10] Originally by: 4THELULZ Right, that's most of that fixed, now would someone mind explaining in English what the hell this guy is whining about? bait rifters will ruin solo/small gang pvp! that is what I got from it at least

AstroPhobic Divine Retribution	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:49:00 - [11] IMO it makes HACs and CS even more useless, now that BCs can be triple rigged without the huge price spike. I'd like to see HACs and the field CS get a boost.
Dawts Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:50:00 - [12] Because customization is bad?
Qi Teuf Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:51:00 - [13] I use rigs on any ship I fly as long as I have the Isk at the time to purchase them. This doesn't change my game play at all, except for making it cheaper for me to replace a ship. I know there are others out there that have the same mindset that I do; putting rigs on a ship, when the ship is less expensive than the rigs, is still a good idea. It really doesn't change much in my eyes.
Psiri	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:55:00 - [14] Originally by: Proxyyyy Since the new rigging system scales (3 cap control circuit1-2) will be a norm on rifters possibly most will relize that a duel repping setup will be more viable which would mean t1 frigates preforming like af's... AF's generally don't field rigs and they will be now, it's just not frigs benefitting from this. To be fair I suspect that T1 frigs won't benefit as much from this in comparison to AF's and BC/Cruisers, T1 frigs are s'posed to be cheap and rigs don't play into their forte. I expect to see alot of BC/AF's in space after this change.
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Proxyyyy Edited by: Proxyyyy on 20/08/2009 18:48:28 Originally by: Ecky X 45% more shield on a Rifter is not game-breaking. Well it would be nice to just wave it off as just as simple as that, im not sure you understand what the new application of these riggs will be. Since the new rigging system scales (3 cap control circuit1-2) will be a norm on rifters possibly most will relize that a duel repping setup will be more viable which would mean t1 frigates preforming like af's... Small Armor Repairer II Small Armor Repairer II dc II 1MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S Nos Cap control circuit I Cap control circuit I Cap control circuit I Mind you i didnt add the t1 cruiser class or bs cause they wont realy be affected by this the rupturewill still own its jsut that it may be duel repped, in facted i think this might bring in a new age of active tanking over buffer tanking... OH NOES! it tanks 62 dps, whatever will I do
Xetal Maelstrom	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:58:00 - [16] A lot of BC and smaller T1 hulls don't get rigged before the patch. After the patch they will. This makes them a bit stronger and a bit more expensive. Almost all T2 hulls got rigged before the patch. After the patch they still will. This makes them the same strength, but cheaper. Net change: T1 ships and T2 ships (in comparison to each other) became more similar: Their prices got a little bit closer, and their ability got a little bit closer. Do I think this is going to have a huge effect? Not really. T2 ships will still be considerably stronger for those who can afford it. You'll probably see more T1 ships floating around in space... but in reality I don't think it'll have a huge change on PvP.
Xian Cthulhu	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:02:00 - [17] I think good idea...yet to see if it is good idea to make them the same bonus/draw back as large size though.
ISK Launderer	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:03:00 - [18] CONFIRMED, THIS WILL RUIN ALL PVP. THIS PATCH NEEDS TO BE ROLLED BACK NOW OR THE CAREBEARS HAVE WON EVE.
demonfurbie Minmatar Covert-Nexus	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:04:00 - [19] Originally by: AstroPhobic IMO it makes HACs and CS even more useless, now that BCs can be triple rigged without the huge price spike. I'd like to see HACs and the field CS get a boost. i agree also it seams like a small boost to faction frigs imo and assault ships .... i cant wait to nanobot my ishkur
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:04:00 - [20] This thread may be really stupid.

Zal Dakkar	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:05:00 - [21] Edited by: Zal Dakkar on 20/08/2009 19:07:39 Originally by: Qi Teuf I know there are others out there that have the same mindset that I do; putting rigs on a ship, when the ship is less expensive than the rigs, is still a good idea. You are the minority, your phrasing essentially admitted that fact. I know the majority of my corp (and other corps I have contact with) will be moving from rarely rigging frigates and cruisers to commonly rigging them. Edit: To add something to the dicussion... I like the change. Now take out insurance.
Proxyyyy Caldari Aenigmata	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:06:00 - [22] null null Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/08/2009 18:42:10 Originally by: Proxyyyy I would just like to open the floor to people who feel that their are serious down sides to making rigs more affordable... Does it not bother anyone and im speaking to thoughs who enjoy solo pvp mostly. That it will in many cases make destroying ships of frigate af and bc class very difficult increasing the time it would take to destroy them. Enabling a pilot to call for support or in most cases just tank u forever unless neuts where applied but still the argument is the same the engagment would last longer. I do solo PVP a lot of the time, all my BCs were always rigged (cheaply), and I do not find it the least bit gamebreaking. You just need to fit for DPS - like you always did if you wanted to do the quick gank. The only thing which is really changed is now T1 cruisers are going to be rigged by default and therefore more potent; but they're still going to die preety quickly. Maybe i didnt make the topic more defined ("im sorry") this realy only affects thoughs in low and null sec. Mind you Bydi is a feared group in low sec "(much respect)" and for good reason u guys are known gankers, i see you guys around alot in your rr'ing bs gangs and sometimes a small hac gangs. A small minority of you corp solo's, and most are well off isk wise, this is about making pvp more affordable for new players and thoughs who would like to learn about solo pvp. As for the privateers "(respect)" but most of you are not affected by this as i do see you guys in syndicate once in awhile and traveling threw low sec. i dont think this affects you cause u guys pretty much still do hi/sec war dec's. This realy only applies to solo pvp in low and maybe null sec...
steveid Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:08:00 - [23] the only problem I see is that BC should have BS sized rigs. If that is the case already then all good imo.
Samaritan Azuma Jericho Industries	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:09:00 - [24] awwww poor thing, now poor people will be able to be more able to compete. STFU this is closer to balance than game breaking
Roland Deschaines Minmatar Esquires Of Questionable Intention	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:10:00 - [25] 1. The OP flies solo a lot. 2. It costs him a lot. 3. He puts CCC on a combat Rifter. Make your conclusions, gentlemen.
slightly sillydude	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:12:00 - [26] Originally by: AstroPhobic IMO it makes HACs and CS even more useless, now that BCs can be triple rigged without the huge price spike. I'd like to see HACs and the field CS get a boost. Agreed. Though I think Hacs just need their prices slashed like a wrist, not necessarily a performance boost. Command ships need a performance boost.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:15:00 - [27] Edited by: Seriously Bored on 20/08/2009 19:18:26 When they were first rolling this idea around, I was expecting tiered rigs similar to what we see with implants. For instance, you'd have a RoF rig giving 5%, 7%, 10% bonuses, and can fit anything on anything. But the way it is, it's sort of power creep across the board. Your target can afford rigs now, but you can get 'em for less now too. And I'm okay with that. The way I see it, this is only an issue to the ultra-rich, who were rigging everything in sight and just want to keep their power dispairity. Nerf the aristocracy! Buff the bourgeoisie! The proletariat is still broke and fine, imo.
Qi Teuf Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Zal Dakkar Edited by: Zal Dakkar on 20/08/2009 19:07:39 Originally by: Qi Teuf I know there are others out there that have the same mindset that I do; putting rigs on a ship, when the ship is less expensive than the rigs, is still a good idea. You are the minority, your phrasing essentially admitted that fact. I know the majority of my corp (and other corps I have contact with) will be moving from rarely rigging frigates and cruisers to commonly rigging them. Edit: To add something to the dicussion... I like the change. Now take out insurance. This is going to even the playing field. This makes it easier for players with less Isk to fight competively with players who were already spending full price on rigs. I understand that I was the exception not the rule when it came to rigging my AF's/BC's/Cruisers. To the OP: I don't expect fights to take anymore time. There are a lot of options in rigging that has nothing to do with tanking. How about ambit rigs for minnie ships, or CCC's for being more cap stable. If anything I would think that long time PvPers would be more upset about this (if the current CCP financial quarterly is correct), due to their access to more Isk, and therefor being able to rig frigs pre patch.
techzer0 Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:19:00 - [29] Originally by: Proxyyyy Edited by: Proxyyyy on 20/08/2009 18:48:28 Originally by: Ecky X 45% more shield on a Rifter is not game-breaking. Well it would be nice to just wave it off as just as simple as that, im not sure you understand what the new application of these riggs will be. Since the new rigging system scales (3 cap control circuit1-2) will be a norm on rifters possibly most will relize that a duel repping setup will be more viable which would mean t1 frigates preforming like af's... Small Armor Repairer II Small Armor Repairer II dc II 1MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S Nos Cap control circuit I Cap control circuit I Cap control circuit I Mind you i didnt add the t1 cruiser class or bs cause they wont realy be affected by this the rupturewill still own its jsut that it may be duel repped, in facted i think this might bring in a new age of active tanking over buffer tanking... I already use that rifter setup without the CCCs, it would be better off with Armor rigs or Projectile/Propulsion rigs... why would you put CCCs on a cap boosted pvp ship?
techzer0 Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:23:00 - [30] This is just gonna make it cheaper for me to rig the rest of my ships... all of my AFs, cruisers, HACs, recons, ceptors, cov-ops, ...and on and on (you get the idea) are already rigged, so it's not changing anything for me. Maybe I'll just trimark and extender rig everything and come wardec you to get another whine topic posted



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