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Is the Amarr / Minmatar FW still strong

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Allison A'vani	Posted - 2009.09.16 05:31:00 - [1] I have been away from EvE for about a month and I was thinking about getting back into faction war. I was in the Caldari Militia and atm is the only faction who's militia I have the standing to join on my own, but since the Caldari technically beat the Gallente I'm assuming that there isn't too much fighting going on there (correct me if I'm wrong). I am not too far from being able to join the Amarr militia and could probably find an Amarrian faction war corp. So my question I guess is, is the Amarr / Minmatar FW still strong?
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.16 05:54:00 - [2] If you like rolling around in 20 man gangs ganking solo frigs and cruisers, then FW is awesome. If you like finding good fights ofte, with out having 20 other guys from the other side jumping in the second you aggro.. Well then it's not so awesome. It just depends which is your cup of tea.. My self, I'm done with FW, it's just two damn blobby.. WT's hardly ever leave high sec with out being in a 20 man gang. Then 9 out of 10 people you find solo, are either a blob trap or run at first contact.
Zen Guerrilla Minmatar Mindfunk	Posted - 2009.09.16 06:16:00 - [3] At least on the Minmatar side i find the only thing that encourages blobs is the lack of FCs. So once someone steps up to do it, a crapload of bored people x up so the resulting fleet grows big fast. Also, the amarr have kind of dropped their balls somewhere on the way. They always gather in highsec and keep fielding heavy fleets with logistic support. Even if it's just a frig swarm roaming. But looking at the killboards, a huge number of kills still are solo or small gang kills. While you will get blobbed often there still is a good chance to find those small engagements. People just need to start more small gangs. Or - shock horror - just go out alone once in a while. It's not that a cruiser or even a BC costs a hell of a lot money these days. I've started going solo in cruisers recently and while it can be frustrating to find something you can engage i haven't lost a ship to a blob so far. And i'm not using a scout alt. Common sense mostly is enough to keep you alive. ----------------------------- Pew pew!
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.09.16 09:51:00 - [4] A vast majority of kills are still small gang/solo stuff. Blobs are increasing in frequency and fleet shipsizes are going up on both sides. For Amarr it is partially due to the horde of neutral Matari tag-alongs that find it worthwhile/funny to wardec half of Amarr militia and using pirate gank tactics against everyone else .. like a bad rash that refuses to go away. For Minmatar I think they are battling their own demons in Amamake, but I really have no idea nor interest in what goes on as long wrecks keep piling up. The more time passes the poorer CCPs decision to allow player militia corps to be wardecced looks. Having neutrals able to cherry-pick targets from a combined fleet ruins the experience (supposedly fun perpetual small scale pvp) for everyone. Bring back the pewpew goodness of the small stuff (cruiser 'n' down)!!!
Gunner Dark	Posted - 2009.09.16 10:01:00 - [5] 20 people is not a blob , if the Matari can't form a gang of 20 in reply (out of over 200+ most evenings) then they deserve to lose anyway . The Matari militia is a joke, people in militia ask for random X's in militia for gangs that no one know what they are for , nor do they have any real purpose . No one is going to throw an X in militia in the hope some random gang gives them an invite, add in on top their top corps wont play with the militia ( IFW )or are simply not that active (TC) then the Matari FW is full of fail. Imho the Amarr are simply far more organised than the Matari , they have organised corps and the ability to put together coherent gangs for the above mentioned bait traps or small 20 man roaming gangs (blob my arse)
Ambo I've Got Nothing	Posted - 2009.09.16 10:54:00 - [6] Well tbh, most minnie pilots simply have no interest in fighting a bunch of 20 odd battleships with dual guardian backup. Of course there are ways to beat it but I'd far rather go solo and simply avoid that fleet. 90% of the time, if I join our fleet what will happen is this: Amarr has 20 odd ships sat camping a gate in Auga. Our FC won't engage until we get at least 30. This means sitting in station/on a gate/whatever for 30 mins+. We get enough people together but the Amarr fleet has seen us and runs back to Toumuta. We sit camping a gate in Kamela. Next, either the Amarr come back with 40 people against our 30 and we run away or no one comes to fight and we get bored and leave. repeat. From my point of view, I'll almost always run into multiple small gang (2-5 people) and solo Minmatar when I'm out in Amarr or Minnie space. It's much rarer to see small gang or solo Amarr. I guess you could call this a lack of organisation from the Minmatar. Personally, I see it more as a difference in philosophy. We simply seem to have more pilots that prefer solo/small gang PvP while Amarr seem to have more pilots that prefer fleet action. In fact, it is perhaps due to the large amount of roaming Minmatar players that solo Amarr players are so rare. When I'm solo, if I engage someone on a gate, I'd say there is about a 50% chance of another Minnie pilot randomly turning up (This happened just last night and I was only on for 20 odd minutes). This might create the impression among many Amarr that going solo is simply too dangerous. (Yes, I know there are plenty of Amarr that do solo lots, I'm talking in general terms though) --------------------------------------
Droog 1 Black Rise Inbreds	Posted - 2009.09.16 11:08:00 - [7] Edited by: Droog 1 on 16/09/2009 11:08:36 Originally by: Allison A'vani but since the Caldari technically beat the Gallente I'm assuming that there isn't too much fighting going on there (correct me if I'm wrong). You are wrong. Caldari die every day to the Gallentes who have adapted and use superior tactics.
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.09.16 11:49:00 - [8] I agree with Ambos point of view in some way. But that we have some logistic ships is not an excuse that minnies cant bring some. If the minnie FC forms up a counter fleet he should exactly tell pilots what he wants otherwise he will not bother. If minmatars cant respect their fleet commanders its their own fault when they need more people when half of their fleet has wrong stuff.
Zen Guerrilla Minmatar Mindfunk	Posted - 2009.09.16 11:56:00 - [9] Originally by: Gunner Dark 20 people is not a blob , if the Matari can't form a gang of 20 in reply (out of over 200+ most evenings) then they deserve to lose anyway . We can easily get that many people together most of the time. If not, it's due to the already mentioned lack of FCs. Quote: The Matari militia is a joke, people in militia ask for random X's in militia for gangs that no one know what they are for , nor do they have any real purpose . No one is going to throw an X in militia in the hope some random gang gives them an invite, add in on top their top corps wont play with the militia ( IFW )or are simply not that active (TC) then the Matari FW is full of fail. Wait, what? I don't get what you're on about here. People x'ing up or people not x'ing up? How does a gang not have a purpose? I'm confused. Quote: Imho the Amarr are simply far more organised than the Matari , they have organised corps and the ability to put together coherent gangs for the above mentioned bait traps or small 20 man roaming gangs (blob my arse) They're only far more organized as in "Either we get a BS heavy fleet with proper logistics support going that is a lot bigger than the Minmatar blob or we're not leaving our highsec home. EVER!" Because that's what they usually do. It's gotten extremely boring. Originally by: Hirana Yoshida A vast majority of kills are still small gang/solo stuff. Blobs are increasing in frequency and fleet shipsizes are going up on both sides. For Amarr it is partially due to the horde of neutral Matari tag-alongs that find it worthwhile/funny to wardec half of Amarr militia and using pirate gank tactics against everyone else .. like a bad rash that refuses to go away. For Minmatar I think they are battling their own demons in Amamake, but I really have no idea nor interest in what goes on as long wrecks keep piling up. The more time passes the poorer CCPs decision to allow player militia corps to be wardecced looks. Having neutrals able to cherry-pick targets from a combined fleet ruins the experience (supposedly fun perpetual small scale pvp) for everyone. Bring back the pewpew goodness of the small stuff (cruiser 'n' down)!!! For the Amarr it's Star Fraction being a major pain in the ass, for Minmatar it's the Heretic Nation. I find the situation is quite similar these days. It sucks having those corps inbetween, picking their targets at will with not much one can do about it. The FW system there still is pretty sucky. About other neutral tag-alongs, Amarr better shut the hell up about that. They are masters of neutral logistic support. I rarely ever see neutrals tag along with the Minmatar fleets on the other hand. ----------------------------- Pew pew!
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.09.16 12:50:00 - [10] We are speaking about one neutral logistic pilot all the time. And for one year minmatars use the same excuse for all over the year. Its quite funny how one person that gets flashy can create problem for whole minmatar fleet. I think targeting and killing flashies dont requires some special skill but obviously it does for minmatars. And the best on it is the part most minmatars dont want to bring their logistic out couse they dont trust even they own corp members and they blame us. To see a minmatar logistic ship is very rare sight. Personaly so far i saw only 2-3 people using logistics in minmatar miltia.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.09.16 13:09:00 - [11] Originally by: Zen Guerrilla They're only far more organized as in "Either we get a BS heavy fleet with proper logistics support going that is a lot bigger than the Minmatar blob or we're not leaving our highsec home. EVER!" Because that's what they usually do. It's gotten extremely boring. Both sides duck and evade when the weather turns to crap. Amarr to beyond Kamela and Minmatar to beyond Ossogur or docked in Dal. Engagements in Kamela are folly due neutral gang support in the form a Titan and god knows how many carriers. Originally by: Zen Guerrilla For the Amarr it's Star Fraction being a major pain in the ass, for Minmatar it's the Heretic Nation. I find the situation is quite similar these days. I deliberately didn't mention any names since the neutral tag-alongs tend to make every thread in which they are mentioned into a chest-thumping exercise. I was referring not to the single neutrals that are present on all sides, but the whole alliances and corps supporting the Matari actively through wardecs, monetary compensation, RR support and piracy against Amarr pilots. Force people/entities to either pirate like Goddess intended or join the Militias proper if they want to influence things in FW. Would level the playing field tremendously for all involved.
Zen Guerrilla Minmatar Mindfunk	Posted - 2009.09.16 13:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Nur AlHuda We are speaking about one neutral logistic pilot all the time. And for one year minmatars use the same excuse for all over the year. Its quite funny how one person that gets flashy can create problem for whole minmatar fleet. I think targeting and killing flashies dont requires some special skill but obviously it does for minmatars. And the best on it is the part most minmatars dont want to bring their logistic out couse they dont trust even they own corp members and they blame us. To see a minmatar logistic ship is very rare sight. Personaly so far i saw only 2-3 people using logistics in minmatar miltia. It's not about that one neutral guardian. He's never the only one anyway. And it's not about trust, it's the general attitude that differs. We just don't enjoy huge BS blobs. It's boring. But it's all the Amarr ever field. "Look, there's a fleet of 30 frigs and one cruiser roaming! GET TO THE BATTLESHIPS!" That's the Amarr spirit. And that **es me off. Originally by:** Hirana Yoshida I deliberately didn't mention any names since the neutral tag-alongs tend to make every thread in which they are mentioned into a chest-thumping exercise. I was referring not to the single neutrals that are present on all sides, but the whole alliances and corps supporting the Matari actively through wardecs, monetary compensation, RR support and piracy against Amarr pilots. Force people/entities to either pirate like Goddess intended or join the Militias proper if they want to influence things in FW. Would level the playing field tremendously for all involved. I agree completely about neutral corps and FW mechanics. I just can't see all those neutral alliances and whatnot supporting us. Apart from the one mentioned but there i think we're both screwed equally. I know of one guy in the militia who gives out free T1 rifters. I don't know ANY neutral logistic pilots on our side. And i don't know any neutral corps helping us out apart from pirate corps that are after both the amarr and the minmatar FW people. But hey, whatever. I'm an FW newbie and i don't care about all this. I pew pew and that's it. ----------------------------- Pew pew!
fffuuu Tribal Core	Posted - 2009.09.16 14:46:00 - [13] I was referring not to the single neutrals that are present on all sides, but the whole alliances and corps supporting the Matari actively through wardecs, monetary compensation, RR support and piracy against Amarr pilots. which Minmatar militia are you referring to? I'd sure like to see some of those things on my side. wardeccing individual FW corps is rather annoying, you should either have to dec the entire FW alliance, or **** off. as for the OP, sure, join the Amarr. see you on the field.
Gunner Dark	Posted - 2009.09.16 14:48:00 - [14] Originally by: Zen Guerrilla Originally by: Gunner Dark 20 people is not a blob , if the Matari can't form a gang of 20 in reply (out of over 200+ most evenings) then they deserve to lose anyway . We can easily get that many people together most of the time. If not, it's due to the already mentioned lack of FCs. Utter Bull. It takes us 45 mins to get a gang 10-15 strong and even then its full of T1 frigs or spread over half of EVE Quote: The Matari militia is a joke, people in militia ask for random X's in militia for gangs that no one know what they are for , nor do they have any real purpose . No one is going to throw an X in militia in the hope some random gang gives them an invite, add in on top their top corps wont play with the militia ( IFW )or are simply not that active (TC) then the Matari FW is full of fail. Wait, what? I don't get what you're on about here. People x'ing up or people not x'ing up? How does a gang not have a purpose? I'm confused. Not one have I seen " gang leaving X in Y for Z bring (shiptype) " Instead we have noobs screaming " X up people " or lolFCs starting a gang and asking for X's with no info , the result is always the same, a **ty gang that's taken to long to form and in fit and/or wrong sized ships Quote: Imho the Amarr are simply far more organised than the Matari , they have organised corps and the ability to put together coherent gangs for the above mentioned bait traps or small 20 man roaming gangs (blob my arse) They're only far more organized as in "Either we get a BS heavy fleet with proper logistics support going that is a lot bigger than the Minmatar blob or we're not leaving our highsec home. EVER!" Because that's what they usually do. It's gotten extremely boring. The Amarr bring it all the time in various sized gangs , I see it all the time , 5-10 man amarr gangs roams from amamake to hado or floses and the Matari dock up and wait till they leave so they can go back to speed tanking their plexes in rifters , or the gang hangs around in one of our systems but we take 30 mins to get 6 frigs and a cruiser together by which time everyone has left. Originally by:** Hirana Yoshida A vast majority of kills are still small gang/solo stuff. Blobs are increasing in frequency and fleet shipsizes are going up on both sides. For Amarr it is partially due to the horde of neutral Matari tag-alongs that find it worthwhile/funny to wardec half of Amarr militia and using pirate gank tactics against everyone else .. like a bad rash that refuses to go away. For Minmatar I think they are battling their own demons in Amamake, but I really have no idea nor interest in what goes on as long wrecks keep piling up. The more time passes the poorer CCPs decision to allow player militia corps to be wardecced looks. Having neutrals able to cherry-pick targets from a combined fleet ruins the experience (supposedly fun perpetual small scale pvp) for everyone. Bring back the pewpew goodness of the small stuff (cruiser 'n' down)!!! For the Amarr it's Star Fraction being a major pain in the ass, for Minmatar it's the Heretic Nation. I find the situation is quite similar these days. It sucks having those corps inbetween, picking their targets at will with not much one can do about it. The FW system there still is pretty sucky. About other neutral tag-alongs, Amarr better shut the hell up about that. They are masters of neutral logistic support. I rarely ever see neutrals tag along with the Minmatar fleets on the other hand. FW sucks on the Mini side period
Sebastien LaForge Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.09.16 14:49:00 - [15] Sounds like the Matari are having the same problem we Gallenteans have; being blobbed out by bigger gangs. Caldari: **, they've got a 15 man cruiser and frig gang! We gotta double our numbers and go BC heavy with an occasional battleship, then when they ship up, we'll run like ** back to high sec. It's really boring to fight an opponent that doesn't have any balls most of the time.
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.09.16 15:19:00 - [16] Well i would like to know when those battleships blobs are happening so i can join them :( Im sure not in EU zone. And if maybe once a week couse then our killboards would be green permanently :P
Gunner Dark	Posted - 2009.09.16 15:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Nur AlHuda Well i would like to know when those battleships blobs are happening so i can join them :( Im sure not in EU zone. And if maybe once a week couse then our killboards would be green permanently :P You have to understand that when the Mini dudes say blob, they mean anything above 10 . The FW definition of blob seems to differ from what anyone else in EVE would consider a blob
Zen Guerrilla Minmatar Mindfunk	Posted - 2009.09.16 15:58:00 - [18] Originally by: Gunner Dark Originally by: Nur AlHuda Well i would like to know when those battleships blobs are happening so i can join them :( Im sure not in EU zone. And if maybe once a week couse then our killboards would be green permanently :P You have to understand that when the Mini dudes say blob, they mean anything above 10 . The FW definition of blob seems to differ from what anyone else in EVE would consider a blob You're bitter. And funny. More bitter than funny tho. Keep it comming. ----------------------------- Pew pew!
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:00:00 - [19] Originally by: Zen Guerrilla At least on the Minmatar side i find the only thing that encourages blobs is the lack of FCs. So once someone steps up to do it, a crapload of bored people x up so the resulting fleet grows big fast. Also, the amarr have kind of dropped their balls somewhere on the way. They always gather in highsec and keep fielding heavy fleets with logistic support. Even if it's just a frig swarm roaming. But looking at the killboards, a huge number of kills still are solo or small gang kills. While you will get blobbed often there still is a good chance to find those small engagements. People just need to start more small gangs. Or - shock horror - just go out alone once in a while. It's not that a cruiser or even a BC costs a hell of a lot money these days. I've started going solo in cruisers recently and while it can be frustrating to find something you can engage i haven't lost a ship to a blob so far. And i'm not using a scout alt. Common sense mostly is enough to keep you alive. I can agree with pretty much everything you said. It seems every time I ever joined what looked to be a nice small gang, it was only a mater of time before it turned into 15 to 20 people. I would have FC's some small gangs myself, but Minmatar militia uses Eve voice instead of ventrillo and Eve voice sucks aruse on the Mac. Making it pretty much useless for anything but listening to garbled fleet commands. As far as not dying to the blob, you are also correct.. I soloed a lot as well, flying cruisers and more recently BC's. I didn't die very often to the blobs, but I also didn't get a lot of fights lately. While yes you can avoid the blobs, assuming people are giving out intel. It fast becomes a bore, waiting for them to go back to high sec or out of the area. Low sec is just too small of an area to operate freely while there are 20-30 man WT's gangs camping gates. I dunno what can be done about the blob situation, but I can't see it changing anytime soon.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:05:00 - [20] Edited by: Mutnin on 16/09/2009 17:05:40 Originally by: Gunner Dark 20 people is not a blob , if the Matari can't form a gang of 20 in reply (out of over 200+ most evenings) then they deserve to lose anyway . The Matari militia is a joke, people in militia ask for random X's in militia for gangs that no one know what they are for , nor do they have any real purpose . No one is going to throw an X in militia in the hope some random gang gives them an invite, add in on top their top corps wont play with the militia ( IFW )or are simply not that active (TC) then the Matari FW is full of fail. Imho the Amarr are simply far more organised than the Matari , they have organised corps and the ability to put together coherent gangs for the above mentioned bait traps or small 20 man roaming gangs (blob my arse) 20 people in low sec is most definitely a blob. It's a blob because in most cases you are going to end up doing nothing but ganking lone targets. Meaning it's 20 guys killing some poor bastereds Vexor or rifter..
Cordarouy Pants	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:41:00 - [21] Well, if nothing else . . . there will be at least a bit of hilarity returning to this conflict in the next few days because I'm rejoining once I get back from some sec status work in 0. So get ur solo tarps ready gents, here comes a sucker.
Bashiri Cursed Inc	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:43:00 - [22] Blobs are on both sides. As for amarrians dropping the ball it's cause the old fc are letting the new people step up and give it a try. So they are making alot of bad moves which doesn't lead to pewpew.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.16 18:19:00 - [23] Originally by: Bashiri Blobs are on both sides. As for amarrians dropping the ball it's cause the old fc are letting the new people step up and give it a try. So they are making alot of bad moves which doesn't lead to pewpew. Well you guys are just lucky that Minmies are as un-organized as they are.. I tried to set up what I was calling "Tuomuta Day". I was going to get about 20 BS's and at least 10 neutral's in RR BS's to camp your high sec stations for some LuLz. The RR's were of course to rub in the fact that Nephilim Xeno, Swatyy & Jensius Duo are all homosexuals for using fleeted neutral alts in FW. However I could only muster up 3 volunteers which is pretty freaking sad actually.
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.09.16 18:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Mutnin Originally by: Bashiri Blobs are on both sides. As for amarrians dropping the ball it's cause the old fc are letting the new people step up and give it a try. So they are making alot of bad moves which doesn't lead to pewpew. Well you guys are just lucky that Minmies are as un-organized as they are.. I tried to set up what I was calling "Tuomuta Day". I was going to get about 20 BS's and at least 10 neutral's in RR BS's to camp your high sec stations for some LuLz. The RR's were of course to rub in the fact that Nephilim Xeno, Swatyy & Jensius Duo are all homosexuals for using fleeted neutral alts in FW. However I could only muster up 3 volunteers which is pretty freaking sad actually. Well you know each militia has around 200 people online so each militia has potential to form up a decent fleets. Amarrians bring out the big stuff and t2 ships couse we like also to fly those things and not just to station spin them around. Minmatars use trash ships with explanation that they can pvp more and afford more losses. But they forget that each time they loose a fleet of t1 ships fitted with t2 they oculd rather invest money to t2 ships with t2 setup and with much better performance. Its just basic clash of ideologies. Amarrians loose command ships, hacs, assault frigs and minmatar loose fleets of rifters and trashers. But after day is over minmatar have always more loses couse instead of investing to normal stuff they loose tons of ships which creates isk sink on their killboard.
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.09.16 19:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Zen Guerrilla "Look, there's a fleet of 30 frigs and one cruiser roaming! GET TO THE BATTLESHIPS!" That's the Amarr spirit. And that ****es me off. So if you know they are going to get battleships out, why not fly your own fleet of 30 battleships and RR support and have a fight?
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.16 19:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Ulstan Originally by: Zen Guerrilla "Look, there's a fleet of 30 frigs and one cruiser roaming! GET TO THE BATTLESHIPS!" That's the Amarr spirit. And that ****es me off. So if you know they are going to get battleships out, why not fly your own fleet of 30 battleships and RR support and have a fight? I don't think Minmatar have 30 BS's. Not that they couldn't get them, I just think most Minmatar like to fly smaller stuff and tend to do pretty well with it in most cases. Oddly enough, it all kind of matches up with the game storyline. You have minmatar faction that is a bunch of smaller groups doing their own thing with out a lot of organization but still manage to be effective. I think part of this problem is because so many corps have just used Minmatar Militia as a recruiting tool. They come in do their thing for a while, recruit some new members out of Militia then go off to do what ever it is they do once they leave. Then you have Amarr with a few more organized corps to bolster their Militia and they tend to fly heavier. They can also be effective, but the difference between the two Militia's styles tends to end up with each side docking up while the others blob is out roaming. They both reverse role several times each day with some ganks in between. I see Amarr hiding in high sec when the Minmatar are out and then I see Minmatar hiding in stations when Amarr are out.
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 21:26:00 - [27] Originally by: Allison A'vani I have been away from EvE for about a month and I was thinking about getting back into faction war. I was in the Caldari Militia and atm is the only faction who's militia I have the standing to join on my own, but since the Caldari technically beat the Gallente I'm assuming that there isn't too much fighting going on there (correct me if I'm wrong). I am not too far from being able to join the Amarr militia and could probably find an Amarrian faction war corp. So my question I guess is, is the Amarr / Minmatar FW still strong? Its not Amarr / Minmatar, its Amarr Militia vs. Minmatar Militia / Cr@p Fraction(alliance) / and Erectus Matari(alliance) and some smaller corps. And yes its still going strong.
Proxyyyy Caldari Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.16 23:20:00 - [28] Rofl what happened to the gallente and caldari milltia are some what the same, i guess there are diffrences. One being starfation that wont stay out of faction warfare they interfered alot on the amarr side and i saw taht right away when i joined. Im not sure if blobs are a problem or not but i can tell you that before the tic intervetion the minmatar out blobbed the amarr all the time. as for the hiding in hi/sec i can tell you that the minmatar did it as much as the amarr except that the minmatar where hiding in auga or dal and didnt have starfgtion up there whole. and the tics attack both sides from what i have seen so the amarr milltia have to deal with the tic's and starfa*tion the facted that minmatar are going more solo is a mroe recent trend the amarr use to do taht more it seems which if side blobs more forces the other ones pilots to find small gang and solo engagments where they can. the thing is the amarr i feel have better pilots than the minmatar did in most cases and many of them moved up to hof to get away from the reg warfare in the main pipe. i know that now the minmatar pilots are soling more and that is good cause they will learn alot mroe and be better pilots rather than be a drone of an fc that takes all the credit for victory and believes he/she is god among robots. Honestly im not sure how it gets like this but i think its because all the good pilots leave fw after awhile and all thats left are the robots that take orders without a leader to give it. seems taht way to me dont take offense. the minmatar milltia may go the way of the gallente and with wolfy gone the gallente have indeed loss...
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 23:28:00 - [29] ^^This
CyberRaver Silentium Mortalitas	Posted - 2009.09.17 00:38:00 - [30] I see loads of fighting with amarr and minmitar, we generally follow amarr looking for our war targets
Gunner Dark	Posted - 2009.09.17 15:06:00 - [31] Originally by: Zen Guerrilla Originally by: Gunner Dark Originally by: Nur AlHuda Well i would like to know when those battleships blobs are happening so i can join them :( Im sure not in EU zone. And if maybe once a week couse then our killboards would be green permanently :P You have to understand that when the Mini dudes say blob, they mean anything above 10 . The FW definition of blob seems to differ from what anyone else in EVE would consider a blob You're bitter. And funny. More bitter than funny tho. Keep it coming. No where near as funny as someone like you telling others how fine FW is, you are never out your rifter or thrasher , you are the embodiment of everything that's ** in our faction. We have dozens of pilots like you flying around in your t1 frigs while PIE, DIA, 1PG, A-BC, and ARETR are cruising around in organised groups flying well setup non crap ships. The Matari need to stop acting all but-hurt because the Amarrians are willing to bring it while our noobs sit and hope to *** mails in bloody t1 frigs and crap fit cruisers. Edit I should note that our Anzan/US pilots are really pretty good , they are more than capable and willing to mix it up with the Amarrians, its simply the Euronubs that are terribad
Zen Guerrilla Minmatar Mindfunk	Posted - 2009.09.17 15:23:00 - [32] Originally by: Gunner Dark Originally by: Zen Guerrilla Originally by: Gunner Dark Originally by: Nur AlHuda Well i would like to know when those battleships blobs are happening so i can join them :( Im sure not in EU zone. And if maybe once a week couse then our killboards would be green permanently :P You have to understand that when the Mini dudes say blob, they mean anything above 10 . The FW definition of blob seems to differ from what anyone else in EVE would consider a blob You're bitter. And funny. More bitter than funny tho. Keep it coming. No where near as funny as someone like you telling others how fine FW is, you are never out your rifter or thrasher , you are the embodiment of everything that's ** in our faction. We have dozens of pilots like you flying around in your t1 frigs while PIE, DIA, 1PG, A-BC, and ARETR are cruising around in organised groups flying well setup non crap ships. The Matari need to stop acting all but-hurt because the Amarrians are willing to bring it while our noobs sit and hope to * mails in bloody t1 frigs and crap fit cruisers. Edit I should note that our Anzan/US pilots are really pretty good , they are more than capable and willing to mix it up with the Amarrians, its simply the Euronubs that are terribad Euronub. I like that. ALL THOSE GODDAMN EURONUBS! FLYING THEIR CHEAP ASS ** SHIPS AND HAVING FUN IN FW, HOW DARE THEY!!! INTERNET SPACESHIPS ARE SERIOUS BUSINESS! RAAAAGE! Heh, and props for being able to read a killboard. ----------------------------- Pew pew!
waruiushiro Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.09.17 16:24:00 - [33] Originally by: Cordarouy Pants Well, if nothing else . . . there will be at least a bit of hilarity returning to this conflict in the next few days because I'm rejoining once I get back from some sec status work in 0. So get ur solo tarps ready gents, here comes a sucker. I saw your name linked in our intel channel in GW, I was like, you don't talk about Cordarouy Pants, man. That's the first rule of Cordarouy Pants. Now would also be a good time to announce my own return to FW. omg woot etc and so on.
Pater Peccavi Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.09.17 16:35:00 - [34] As with all things EVE, if you're not having fun, go do something else. Gunner Dark, it sounds like you're not having fun in FW. Go do something else. Minmatar players who aren't having fun, go do something else. People who are getting kills in FW, having loads of fun, keep doing what you're doing. Personally, one of the main selling points of FW is that it promotes flying T1 frigs/dessies/cruisers. A massive wardec where your opponents fly similar sized ships means that these ships can engage on gates and stations (natural focal points in EVE), rather than being forced to either canbait or roam belts. Plexes that only allow ships of a certain size lets you fight each other without having to worry about a HAC/BS jumping in and ruining your fun. If you're having fun flying around in your battleship in FW, great! It's awesome that we can both have fun flying ships we enjoy! However, if you're not having fun in your battleship, and you'd rather shoot yourself than fly something smaller, then move to one of the areas in EVE where you can enjoy your battleship. Options include merc alliances, 0.0 alliances, High-sec missionrunning, Wormholes, etc. _________
Cordarouy Pants	Posted - 2009.09.17 17:24:00 - [35] Originally by: waruiushiro I saw your name linked in our intel channel in GW, I was like, you don't talk about Cordarouy Pants, man. That's the first rule of Cordarouy Pants. LOL, good times! Hope to see you soon.
Sscleetar	Posted - 2009.09.17 17:25:00 - [36] Before the Galente lost I used to see a TON of annoying threads between the Cal and the Gal where there was a lot of chest beating and it was really annoying. Recently I have noticed more and more Amarr and Minmat threads like this one that are just as annoying as the Cal/Gal ones. It's sad to see actually. (But the Amarr wah wah wah....But the Minmatar wah wah wah....You should play MY way!....No, you should play MY way!....NO U!....NO U!) Just shut up and shoot something! To the OP (if you have not already abandoned this thread) FW is really fun. Make sure you get into a FW corp, FW corps make FW even more fun. The Amarr/Minmat war can be broken down into 2 time zones: EU Time Zone: Amarr have the upper hand, they can field more numbers with bigger ships and better FC's. Still plenty of fights though. Lots of fun. US Time Zone: Minmatar have the upper hand here. Minmats have a fairly tight knit group that likes to fly together (IFW, ROSS, and a few other corps)and have gotten pretty good (they even call themselves "The Late Night Crew", not very original, but good pilots). Not a ton of Amarr activity during this time zone so the Minmats usually try to find some Tics or other pirates to kill. Lots of fun. To almost everyone else in this thread: Please don't let the Amarr/Minmat front turn into a crying fest of these forums. We have been pretty good about it for so long. It's sad to see things going down-hill the way that they are. Red Dragon.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.17 21:25:00 - [37] Originally by: Proxyyyy One being starfa*tion that wont stay out of faction warfare they interfered alot on the amarr side and i saw taht right away when i joined. Something wrong with your keyboard? 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
CyberRaver Silentium Mortalitas	Posted - 2009.09.17 21:29:00 - [38] And ticks interfere with minmitar side, its all fun!
Proxyyyy Caldari Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.17 23:11:00 - [39] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Proxyyyy One being starfa*tion that wont stay out of faction warfare they interfered alot on the amarr side and i saw taht right away when i joined. Something wrong with your keyboard? Nope thoughs are suppose to be the letter "G" GGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dont want to be bothered reading the forum rules so i wont swear = )
qanatas Minmatar Tribal Core	Posted - 2009.09.18 08:47:00 - [40] At least on the forum, the war is alive and kicking .
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.18 10:55:00 - [41] Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 18/09/2009 11:04:55 Hmmm alot has changed in the last few month's, the minmitar when bolstered by dark and rkk where indeed not worth fighting, becuase the 60 man bs gang would be behind that rifter you tackled on the kourm gate. but hey, if you can do it, fair play we would all do the same. When they both left, the minmitar did pretty well you alwyas ran bs fleets, and i mean every single day a minmitar bs fleet with up to 4 scimitars would be flying around, also you started dropping capitals in groups (all this happend in a 2-3 week time period). While you did this the major amarr corps all started gathering the ships and money to get a nice big fleet up. I remember you baiting us with a carrier, we cuaght it and killed your entire fleet with minimal loss's and killed 3 capital ships. Then you started bringing out rather heavy BC gangs which i admit were pretty scary to look at, 15 hurricanes OMFGRUN!!! but again that lasted 1 week maybe two. I think the fianl nail in the coffin was the ammake fight where two seperate amarr BS fleets ( One being completley AB-C bs ) converged on that station in ammake, Smogg ( love yah geeezer ) decided to stand and fight and subsequently lost a lot of bs. That was the last time i saw the minmatar actually ni a large fleet. These days you get the occasional bs traveling between stations, and you get rather large rifter gangs which do loook funny in the overview lol makes the screen go fuzzy I will admit the amarr seem to have ALOT more bs ready pilots so the new fc's and the old sometime like to use them. All in all i don't do militia fleets any more. You will see the amarr militia killboard turn green, when i take the corp out though But the simple fact remain if you can't handle the 10 man "BLOB" and you are just here to ***** and moan bout how the other side is always coming back bigger than you with logistics, what they hell are you doing in the militia???
Gunner Dark	Posted - 2009.09.18 11:13:00 - [42] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 18/09/2009 11:04:55 Hmmm alot has changed in the last few month's, the minmitar when bolstered by dark and rkk where indeed not worth fighting, becuase the 60 man bs gang would be behind that rifter you tackled on the kourm gate. but hey, if you can do it, fair play we would all do the same. When they both left, the minmitar did pretty well you alwyas ran bs fleets, and i mean every single day a minmitar bs fleet with up to 4 scimitars would be flying around, also you started dropping capitals in groups (all this happend in a 2-3 week time period). While you did this the major amarr corps all started gathering the ships and money to get a nice big fleet up. I remember you baiting us with a carrier, we cuaght it and killed your entire fleet with minimal loss's and killed 3 capital ships. Then you started bringing out rather heavy BC gangs which i admit were pretty scary to look at, 15 hurricanes OMFGRUN!!! but again that lasted 1 week maybe two. I think the fianl nail in the coffin was the ammake fight where two seperate amarr BS fleets ( One being completley AB-C bs ) converged on that station in ammake, Smogg ( love yah geeezer ) decided to stand and fight and subsequently lost a lot of bs. That was the last time i saw the minmatar actually ni a large fleet. These days you get the occasional bs traveling between stations, and you get rather large rifter gangs which do loook funny in the overview lol makes the screen go fuzzy I will admit the amarr seem to have ALOT more bs ready pilots so the new fc's and the old sometime like to use them. All in all i don't do militia fleets any more. You will see the amarr militia killboard turn green, when i take the corp out though But the simple fact remain if you can't handle the 10 man "BLOB" and you are just here to ***** and moan bout how the other side is always coming back bigger than you with logistics, what they hell are you doing in the militia??? Apparently flying around in rifter gangs is fun god forbid anyone join the militia and try to add any semblance of organisation to it. You guys brought what a mixed t2 frig and HAC gang of 10 or so yesterday evening ? the militia ground to a halt because OMG BC HAS THE BLOB out. And why haven't i left the militia yet ? simple answer I want to fight the Amarr , I just would like to do it with pilots who are willing to risk more than a dam rifter / dessie / t2 cruiser. The Mini militia has a huge issue with crap corps and no FC's during EU peak , if the Amarr really decided to push it could be the Cald v Gallente front all over again in no time.
waruiushiro Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.09.18 12:40:00 - [43] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 18/09/2009 11:04:55 Hmmm alot has changed in the last few month's, the minmitar when bolstered by dark and rkk where indeed not worth fighting, becuase the 60 man bs gang would be behind that rifter you tackled on the kourm gate. but hey, if you can do it, fair play we would all do the same. When they both left, the minmitar did pretty well you alwyas ran bs fleets, and i mean every single day a minmitar bs fleet with up to 4 scimitars would be flying around, also you started dropping capitals in groups (all this happend in a 2-3 week time period). While you did this the major amarr corps all started gathering the ships and money to get a nice big fleet up. I remember you baiting us with a carrier, we cuaght it and killed your entire fleet with minimal loss's and killed 3 capital ships. Then you started bringing out rather heavy BC gangs which i admit were pretty scary to look at, 15 hurricanes OMFGRUN!!! but again that lasted 1 week maybe two. I think the fianl nail in the coffin was the ammake fight where two seperate amarr BS fleets ( One being completley AB-C bs ) converged on that station in ammake, Smogg ( love yah geeezer ) decided to stand and fight and subsequently lost a lot of bs. That was the last time i saw the minmatar actually ni a large fleet. These days you get the occasional bs traveling between stations, and you get rather large rifter gangs which do loook funny in the overview lol makes the screen go fuzzy I will admit the amarr seem to have ALOT more bs ready pilots so the new fc's and the old sometime like to use them. All in all i don't do militia fleets any more. You will see the amarr militia killboard turn green, when i take the corp out though But the simple fact remain if you can't handle the 10 man "BLOB" and you are just here to ***** and moan bout how the other side is always coming back bigger than you with logistics, what they hell are you doing in the militia??? damn battlestar, I think you actually got it right. sscleetar too. FW is a cycle, things change... leadership, pilots, capabilities are always shifting with the membership. one thing WOLFY discovered was the diminishing returns. you kill a person's mission boat in highsecks, the next day they quit malitia. soon no more targets. the Tama gate used to be hot/cold running noobs, then squids wised up that jumping through there = fried calamari during WOLFY hours. soon no more targets. or, all your targets just keep to the big fleets. who can blame them? it's an understandable tactic if flying alone means death. and it's always the problem in Amarr/Minnie because of the lopsided TZ strengths. but what can ya do? complaining won't fix it. you just have to adapt. find kills elsewhere, use different fleet types... check out the grass on the other side of the fence and let that other grass grow back a little before you return to om-nom-nom-nom.
zombiedeadhead Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.18 13:20:00 - [44] As an ex-Min militia pilot, who now lives and dies (mostly the dying atm) in Minnie Fw low-sec, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the impact of the new LP bonuses on the FW activity. I may be jumping to conclusions here, but i have seen a lot more activity in my local area, and a lot of gangs (and even solo pilots) running FW mission sites. These seem to be bringing more opportunities for small roaming gangs to find a fight, at least thats how it looks to this interested observer. Anyone C/D this? What I have particulrly noticed is that the Minmitar are becoming more involved in this, whereas before it was the Amarr in the area who had the more organised and tighter small gangs.
CyberRaver Silentium Mortalitas	Posted - 2009.09.18 14:23:00 - [45] i have noticed the minmitar tend to be sticking in smaller and smaller ships, getting to the point where i see more pods then ships now
ShadowMaiden Amarr Divine Radiance	Posted - 2009.09.19 14:40:00 - [46] Edited by: ShadowMaiden on 19/09/2009 14:40:23 the PVEers will look up and shout - "NO! we are important!" and the PVPers will whisper - "no..."
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.09.19 14:46:00 - [47] Still going strong, get in, get some pew pew, the Minmatar side does suffer slightly from lack of FCs, so when one is online giving a fleet call, the fleet rapidly hits the 30-40 mark.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.19 16:11:00 - [48] Originally by: zombiedeadhead As an ex-Min militia pilot, who now lives and dies (mostly the dying atm) in Minnie Fw low-sec, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the impact of the new LP bonuses on the FW activity. I may be jumping to conclusions here, but i have seen a lot more activity in my local area, and a lot of gangs (and even solo pilots) running FW mission sites. These seem to be bringing more opportunities for small roaming gangs to find a fight, at least thats how it looks to this interested observer. Anyone C/D this? What I have particulrly noticed is that the Minmitar are becoming more involved in this, whereas before it was the Amarr in the area who had the more organised and tighter small gangs. I finally left FW to try some other stuff, but honestly I didn't see much action from the new mission plexes. I ran down several Amarr in missions and never once did a single one stay for a fight. I tired camping the plex gates, cloaking up inside the mission, but it always ended up the mission runner coming back with a gang or never at all. I think it comes down to the fact in most cases if you run a mission you are doing a hell of a lot of traveling. I've seen people say they had to do 20 jumps to run a FW mission. That in it's self is going to have an effect, because who wants to risk losing their ship and having to run 20 jumps back for another one? The other problem is of course it's just like a FW plex, the person running it has to tank the rat aggro and is at a fighting disadvantage to whom ever comes in from the other side. Which in the end is another reason not to fight. I think over all the missions were a good idea, but they bring in the typical PVE aspects, that give more reasons to avoid combat than to encourage it.
RedSplat	Posted - 2009.09.19 17:02:00 - [49] Not enough butt hurt and chest beating for a militia thread. So, i have nothing to do with FW anymore- for which am an thankfull. But, I'm curious, do you think the new Navy BS will change matters at all or will they just promote more standings exploiting cloaked stabbed plexing frigates aping Ankh? Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.09.19 17:41:00 - [50] Originally by: RedSplat I'm curious, do you think the new Navy BS will change matters at all or will they just promote more standings exploiting cloaked stabbed plexing frigates aping Ankh? Yes, and a couple more expensive losses.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.09.19 17:41:00 - [51] Originally by: RedSplat ...I'm curious, do you think the new Navy BS will change matters at all or will they just promote more standings exploiting cloaked stabbed plexing frigates aping Ankh? Plexing doesn't yield LP and the harder missions require gang or very tough/specific setups. So no. Will there be farming to sell faction BS on market? Hell yes, but I think it will mostly be regular militia doing it during the hours when the opposition is either blobbing/swarming or non-existent. After some months there may be dedicated farmers up and running, but between pirates and Wts it will not be a way to get a steady income.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.19 18:24:00 - [52] Originally by: RedSplat Not enough butt hurt and chest beating for a militia thread. So, i have nothing to do with FW anymore- for which am an thankfull. But, I'm curious, do you think the new Navy BS will change matters at all or will they just promote more standings exploiting cloaked stabbed plexing frigates aping Ankh? I don't think they will affect much in combat in FW it's self as you don't typically see many faction ships in FW. I think their only affect will be more people farming FW missions and running at first sight of combat. While it's nice to have a income source in FW, I think giving the bulk of LP's to the mission running side was a bad decision by CCP. Trying to mix mission running with PVP is like trying to force two magnets with revered polarity together. It just isn't gonna happen. They should have put the LP rewards straight into the hands of the PVPers by giving better LP rewards to PVP combat, not PVE.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.09.19 19:57:00 - [53] Originally by: Mutnin ...They should have put the LP rewards straight into the hands of the PVPers by giving better LP rewards to PVP combat, not PVE. I am sure they tried finding a way for PvP to contribute more LP, but it has such obvious exploits that is nigh impossible to balance. Create an alt, join opposing militia and kill him repeatedly .. insurance takes care of cost. Can't even make a rule saying only the first few kills of a character gives LP as most PvP'ers are the same pilots going back out again and again or you make 2nd/3rd/4th alt. At least they had the common sense not to tie VP to LP in any way which would have let the extremely buggy plexing be abused for LP.
Bischopt	Posted - 2009.09.21 02:14:00 - [54] The minmatar militia is indeed doing rather badly at the moment. I believe that is mainly because our militia (minmatar) is indeed poorly organized and only has a couple of good fleet commanders. Well actually we have several good fc's but only a couple of them are willing to lead large militia fleets into battle anymore. A lot of the older and more experienced people in the minmatar militia seem to prefer small groups that they know well and that are fun, instead of the large and more serious fleets that have unknown and annoying nooby people in them. These more experienced people include our best fc and some cap and logistics pilots that have simply had too many bad experiences in militia fleets or are just tired of the blobs. I'm not exactly experienced or old but even I don't find militia fleets very entertaining anymore either. Lately I've been flying with only one or two closer friends, popping randon targets around low sec. I've also been killing some amarr noobships, shuttles and pods in their high sec every now and then And the heretics, well I think they're a problem mainly because they can go into minmatar high sec and camp the stations etc. So, in my opinion the militia just is not that much fun anymore. I mean I used to be a very active fleet member, I was even the top killer of july 2009 :P But now it's just boring and I don't even know most of the people in the fleets anymore. It's much better to fly solo or form a small gang with a couple or friends. I think the amarr may take things even a little bit too seriously. I think I know one or two people who actually care about plexing and capturing/defending systems so there's really nothing keeping most of us focused or serious about FW. We're in FW just for the fun. The amarr tacklers suck by the way. lol sorry, I just had to say that. Bisch
ovenproofjet Caldari Swords of Clarity	Posted - 2009.09.21 12:24:00 - [55] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Proxyyyy One being starfa*tion that wont stay out of faction warfare they interfered alot on the amarr side and i saw taht right away when i joined. Something wrong with your keyboard? LOLFraction buddies Yeah solution to neutral war decs....make the war deccers have to dec the entire militia, seeing as we are effectively an alliance this would make sense.
RedSplat	Posted - 2009.09.21 14:49:00 - [56] Quote: And the heretics, well I think they're a problem mainly because they can go into minmatar high sec and camp the stations etc. Look i know they aren't flashy anymore and you don't have the advantage of sentry's + being able to pick your fights + a safe place to hide in Highsec but this really shouldn't be an issue. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Bischopt	Posted - 2009.09.21 21:05:00 - [57] Originally by: RedSplat Quote: And the heretics, well I think they're a problem mainly because they can go into minmatar high sec and camp the stations etc. Look i know they aren't flashy anymore and you don't have the advantage of sentry's + being able to pick your fights + a safe place to hide in Highsec but this really shouldn't be an issue. It's not really an issue, it's just something that the amarrs cant do, that's why I mentioned it. To be honest, the heretics barely give me any trouble in low sec. I have no trouble evading their station camps or gate camps and I certainly have no trouble losing them when they decide to go after me. They are however a problem for those who actually enjoy flying big and clumsy ships that get caught easily. But that's enough about the heretics, it's not that important. And by the way, there's always a safe place to hide in high sec ;) You just have to find one.
emllik Human Endurance Program	Posted - 2009.09.21 21:20:00 - [58] The Amarr/Minmitar FW is great. I solo pvp 95% of the time and find people to pvp almost everytime i log on.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.21 22:18:00 - [59] Originally by: emllik The Amarr/Minmitar FW is great. I solo pvp 95% of the time and find people to pvp almost everytime i log on. Yea, but you are flying a frig most of the time. It's not to hard to get away from the blobs in a frig and if you get caught it's no biggie on the loss. Nothing wrong with frigs of course, but they do get old after a while and trying to solo in anything bigger quickly turns into a blob magnet. Unfortunately, some of my corpies wanted back in FW, so my vacation has ended. However I just put an alt in Red vs Blue and it's looking like it will be interesting. Seems like a lot of people joining just want some PVP with out all the other BS.
Jhagiti Tyran Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2009.09.22 05:37:00 - [60] Reading this thread everything sounds right to that weird game fluff part of my brain, the Minmatar coming out in raggedy assed frigate and cruiser gangs and the Amarr rolling out in large fleets of BS.
Jodie Amille Rifters	Posted - 2009.09.22 12:10:00 - [61] Edited by: Jodie Amille on 22/09/2009 12:33:58 The amarr blob, the minmatar blob. From what I've seen these days the amarr seem to blob more. It was brought about by the minmatar blobbing more earlier. --------
Zen Guerrilla Minmatar Mindfunk	Posted - 2009.09.22 22:52:00 - [62] I predict that after tonight the Amarr will not find anything to fight for quite some time. At least those in the EU timezone. ----------------------------- Pew pew!
Ambo I've Got Nothing	Posted - 2009.09.23 10:43:00 - [63] Originally by: Zen Guerrilla I predict that after tonight the Amarr will not find anything to fight for quite some time. At least those in the EU timezone. *checks KB. Wow, minnies got owned yesterday. --------------------------------------
Morphisat Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2009.09.23 10:50:00 - [64] Originally by: Zen Guerrilla I predict that after tonight the Amarr will not find anything to fight for quite some time. At least those in the EU timezone. And why would that be ?
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.23 11:05:00 - [65] Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 23/09/2009 11:05:47 Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 23/09/2009 11:05:33 The fight last night was an absolute sluaghter. Fair play to the minmitar fc who decided to stay and fight but seriousley you need to train your scouts or get new ones. When your fleet was spotted 3 different fleets converged on your position. The first was the R.S.M hac fleet who gave the intel to me, i then formed an ab-c batleship fleet. Initial plan was to come and screw you over by ourselves but we realsied the militia had a fleet and we all worked together. In the end we all jumped into you guys from kourm knowing the Auga gate was HUGE and that all the rr would be like 50km away from each other. You put up a valient effort and i salute you for that, and warping in the battleships late in the fight would of helped if it were sooner. All in all a good fight :) The next thing i would like to poing out is that you primaried a damnation ???? why would you do that.....?
Zen Guerrilla Minmatar Mindfunk	Posted - 2009.09.23 13:26:00 - [66] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 23/09/2009 11:05:47 Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 23/09/2009 11:05:33 The fight last night was an absolute sluaghter. Fair play to the minmitar fc who decided to stay and fight but seriousley you need to train your scouts or get new ones. When your fleet was spotted 3 different fleets converged on your position. The first was the R.S.M hac fleet who gave the intel to me, i then formed an ab-c batleship fleet. Initial plan was to come and screw you over by ourselves but we realsied the militia had a fleet and we all worked together. In the end we all jumped into you guys from kourm knowing the Auga gate was HUGE and that all the rr would be like 50km away from each other. You put up a valient effort and i salute you for that, and warping in the battleships late in the fight would of helped if it were sooner. All in all a good fight :) The next thing i would like to poing out is that you primaried a damnation ???? why would you do that.....? The worlds best primary calling wouldn't have saved us there. :) Awesome fight tho and no lag at all on my side. But please, "all the RR"? We barely had 10 BS'es. When you went on the way, we had NONE. The whole fleet was BC and down and we only just shipped up right before the engagement. Once again you brought an absolute overkill fleet. That really is the only thing that ****es me off. In the end this will stop the Minnie side from forming proper fleets at all. And then there's nothing left to do but plex. :( And i still don't know how we didn't see the rest of your guys coming. Our scouts really sucked there. ----------------------------- Pew pew!
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.23 15:08:00 - [67] Edited by: Mutnin on 23/09/2009 15:09:20 Originally by: Zen Guerrilla The worlds best primary calling wouldn't have saved us there. :) Awesome fight tho and no lag at all on my side. But please, "all the RR"? We barely had 10 BS'es. When you went on the way, we had NONE. The whole fleet was BC and down and we only just shipped up right before the engagement. Once again you brought an absolute overkill fleet. That really is the only thing that ****es me off. In the end this will stop the Minnie side from forming proper fleets at all. And then there's nothing left to do but plex. :( And i still don't know how we didn't see the rest of your guys coming. Our scouts really sucked there. It's because the only way Amarr will ever fight is if they have over whelming numbers or much better ships. I just looked at the KB, he had 20 more people in his gang and braging that is was 3 gangs converging on one. Then wonders why they won. If roles were reversed and Minmatar clearly had more in their gang the Amarr would have never left high sec. Amarr are always the same, they sit in high sec all day, while the Minmatar get bored twiddling their thumbs and chasing around a WT here or there. Then just about the time the Minmatar gangs are ready to disband, the Amarr blob comes along. Always of course with over kill yet the Minmatar typically fight them anyway, simply because that how Minmatar are. If the Minmatar happen to beat them in the smaller gang, then Amarr go into hiding for hours if not til the next day. If the Amarr happen to win, they show up on the forums gloating how great they are because they won a fight with 20 more guys than the other side had.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.23 15:14:00 - [68] Edited by: Mutnin on 23/09/2009 15:17:46 Originally by: Jodie Amille Edited by: Jodie Amille on 22/09/2009 12:33:58 The amarr blob, the minmatar blob. From what I've seen these days the amarr seem to blob more. It was brought about by the minmatar blobbing more earlier. Actually, well before your old corp joined FW Amarr used to blob all day long during the UK time zone. Then Minmatar would blob all night long during the US time zone, so it was fairly equal blobbing pretty much non stop with just the role reversing depending what time zone it was. Now it's just less profound in the differences, because Minmatar can pull some UK time zone fleets and Amarr can pull some US time zone fleets. About the time you guys showed up was when Amarr started getting more active in the US time zone and has been somewhat active since then. Meanwhile in the same time period the Minmatar have lost a lot of FC's whom likely got tired of being hounded for fleets the moment they signed on.
In4r4	Posted - 2009.09.23 17:08:00 - [69] Originally by: Mutnin Edited by: Mutnin on 23/09/2009 15:17:46 Originally by: Jodie Amille Edited by: Jodie Amille on 22/09/2009 12:33:58 The amarr blob, the minmatar blob. From what I've seen these days the amarr seem to blob more. It was brought about by the minmatar blobbing more earlier. Actually, well before your old corp joined FW Amarr used to blob all day long during the UK time zone. Then Minmatar would blob all night long during the US time zone, so it was fairly equal blobbing pretty much non stop with just the role reversing depending what time zone it was. Now it's just less profound in the differences, because Minmatar can pull some UK time zone fleets and Amarr can pull some US time zone fleets. About the time you guys showed up was when Amarr started getting more active in the US time zone and has been somewhat active since then. Meanwhile in the same time period the Minmatar have lost a lot of FC's whom likely got tired of being hounded for fleets the moment they signed on. The killboard shows it was 60 vs 45 , if you guys would get out your crap ships and l2scout then them having 15 more ships would not automatically mean a slaughter . The fact is the Mini's on Eu are full of fail pilots in fail corps full of fail FC's . The militia is full of noobs flying around defending plexes in metro in rifters while the like of BC's corp owns any mini gang it comes across. You all need to stop making excuses for why your so bad, and your corps need to step up and learn to pvp , seriously guys your not just bad, your embarrassingly bad. /eats popcorn while waiting for "but flying a rifter is fun blahblahblah"
Ethan Blue Non Entity	Posted - 2009.09.23 18:37:00 - [70] I like how players feel it is the other sides responsibility to entertain them. Amarr complains that Minnie's don't undock. Minnie's complain that Amarr... the smallest militia.... uses blobs all the time. LiveDog (Minnie Pilot) lost a Thanny last night in Auga. Both sides were using hit and run, cover and retreat tactics... one of our pilots, Baruc, warp/bumped him off the station in a beautiful display of timing. LiveDog was the first person on local to say GF, and gave props to the pilot that bumped him. He neither griped nor complained. He laughed about it. So to the Original Post: I was enlisted in the Caldari militia and made some good friends, but I have A LOT more fun and fly with better, more active pilots that don't display the same infighting that Caldari traditionally have. I would highly recommend the Amarr/Minnie war on either side. The good pilots are usually the ones who are griping on the forums like us :)
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.09.23 20:16:00 - [71] Originally by: In4r4 The killboard shows it was 60 vs 45 , if you guys would get out your crap ships and l2scout then them having 15 more ships would not automatically mean a slaughter . The fact is the Mini's on Eu are full of fail pilots in fail corps full of fail FC's . The militia is full of noobs flying around defending plexes in metro in rifters while the like of BC's corp owns any mini gang it comes across. You all need to stop making excuses for why your so bad, and your corps need to step up and learn to pvp , seriously guys your not just bad, your embarrassingly bad. /eats popcorn while waiting for "but flying a rifter is fun blahblahblah" There seems to be a fair bit of unjust critcism and waay too much seriousness in this thread. Describing militia members as "fail" when they are noobs is just silly really, by your reasoning anyone with low skillpoints must be fail. You said it yourself, the militia is full of noobs and as such it's true, we lack the skill and importantly the resources to take on the well coordinated amarr guardian/BS gangs effectively. However i don't think an inability to field anything better than a rag tag bunch of cruisers and BCs in response qualifies as failure, just lack of time in game TBH. If we are guilty of something it is getting bored enough to say "**** it" and engage with what we have. That however, brings me to my next point... I also happen to think that the criticism of the Amarr (particularly ABC and PIE etc) for fielding decent gangs with support is completely unwarranted. Perhaps if we minnies would never engage them and no fights occured as a result of this stalemate it would be fair criticism, but the fact remains that WE DO ENGAGE THOSE FLEETS for whatever stupid reason, with our poorly composed fleets of cruisers etc. So I ask you, why the hell should the Amarr change what they are doing ? It clearly works for them and we are apparently in no hurry to learn from past defeats (lol ?). My hat comes off to them for consistently bringing it. Myself, i am having a great time in FW and i would reccomend joining either side. The minnies do really need a few more experienced pilots and FCs in the EU tz for sure. The FCs we have get swamped with xes and I respect them for trying to do something with what we have ... complete nubs and all. Time will surely bring mpore experience and we will find our way, I just hope the like of ABC and PIE (sorry if i left anyone out) haven't got bored and left by the time we do as I could see some great fights just waiting to be had by all. TLDFR: FW is a mish mash but we are most of us having a really good laugh in the minnie/amarr conflict, may it continue I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:07:00 - [72] These things tend to go in cycles. I dont know how much of this is 'hurf' but, if things are a bit down in the Minmatar camp, something will roll along to pick it up again. The Dark is Rising...
Bashiri Cursed Inc	Posted - 2009.09.24 01:59:00 - [73] Edited by: Bashiri on 24/09/2009 02:00:46 All I say is 3 months ago amarr pilot was fail at bringing the right ships. Now those same pilots moved on into better ships and more skills at what they do. I see minmatar in the same cycle of new pilots with small ships. As for amarr bringing higher scale ships. You did once now it's our time to shine , don't complain learn to counter it. Blobs are on both side so stfu with that same old talk and see you in space. edit : P.S join minmatar I need more targets.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2009.09.24 02:27:00 - [74] I find the people that complain about Amarr blobs to be all so funny. I've noticed a lot of fleets formed in Amarr militia will stop taking x's after 10 or so members. Several FCs will ensure their fleet is 1/2 to 3/4 the size of the Matar fleet in the hope they won't run away. So you have Amarr deliberately trying to make weaker fleets just so the Matar will engage. Stop running away, it's getting old fast.
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.09.24 06:42:00 - [75] Edited by: Insa Rexion on 24/09/2009 06:43:39 Originally by: Dr BattleSmith I find the people that complain about Amarr blobs to be all so funny. I've noticed a lot of fleets formed in Amarr militia will stop taking x's after 10 or so members. Several FCs will ensure their fleet is 1/2 to 3/4 the size of the Matar fleet in the hope they won't run away. So you have Amarr deliberately trying to make weaker fleets just so the Matar will engage. Stop running away, it's getting old fast. I have already said I respect the amarr for bringing out decent fleets and the quality of their FCs, but i have to object to inaccurate picture you paint here. It may well be true that some amarr FCs do try to keep the fleet smaller than the minnie fleet numbers wise, but a fleet or RR BS and dual even triple guardians is still vastly superior than the rag tag bunch of ships we can assemble most of the time, des[pite NUMERICAL advantage. It's not as if they are trying to create an inferior fleet to ours to get us to engage as you appear to be claiming, just a smaller one And clearly we are not running away, in fact that is our biggest fault TBH, we don't run away when we should, when it's clear that our fleet is completely outmatched. The total slaughter described a few posts earlier and several other floor wipings we've taken recently are testament to the fact that we don't run all the time as you appear to be claiming. Both the amarr and the minnies blob, FACT. you guys may have some smaller fleets running around as do we, but both of us roll in blobs some of the time and to attempt to imply otherwise is bollox frankly. I think the 2 posts above yours have it about right, this goes in cycles, right now amarr are peaking and we need to get better, but your pretty picture of a few amarr holding off hordes of minnies is more than a little disingenuous when you leave out the fact that its 10 RR BSs, 3 guardians and a falcon against a load of poorly skilled nubs half the time. But sure, go back to your fantasy hero land if it makes you feel good I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2009.09.24 09:34:00 - [76] I just want a fight.... I don't always get a chance to fleet up for FW so it kinda sucks when matar won't fight. Yes it does swing, yes there are blobs..... Besides that, when it's even, or fair, or even the odds on the matar side.... The confidence just isn't there and they fold all too easy. It's on a constant see-saw too, Amarr come out, get bored, go home. Matar come out, no Amarr, get bored and go home.... rinse and repeat.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2009.09.24 09:41:00 - [77] The general point of my post is.... "Matar.... prove me wrong.... more fighting!" Offended? I'm wrong? In the immortal words of the worlds most celebrated idiot.... "Bring it on!"
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.24 10:31:00 - [78] I have to agree the minmitar do bring it from time to time, and im sure the amarr will vouch, when i used to run militia fleets, i would take battlecruiser to fight battleships and limit the gang to 2 squads. I got alot of good fights that way. With regards to logistics, in the last week i have seen 5 different pilots rolling around in scimitars, all online around the EU prime time???? And yes the cycle is now on the amarr side and we seem to have the bigger, better fleet (always have in my opinion) but not more than 4 weeks ago you were flying round with 15+ battlcrusiers in gang. I will admit after a string of large defeats both sides tend to fall back to the small ships theory lol. AS for mutnin your explanation of things was not valid when your were in the militia, nor is it valid now, time and time again your own militia stated how you were wrong, and you are wrong now. "It's because the only way Amarr will ever fight is if they have over whelming numbers or much better ships. I just looked at the KB, he had 20 more people in his gang and braging that is was 3 gangs converging on one. Then wonders why they won. If roles were reversed and Minmatar clearly had more in their gang the Amarr would have never left high sec. Amarr are always the same, they sit in high sec all day, while the Minmatar get bored twiddling their thumbs and chasing around a WT here or there. Then just about the time the Minmatar gangs are ready to disband, the Amarr blob comes along. Always of course with over kill yet the Minmatar typically fight them anyway, simply because that how Minmatar are. If the Minmatar happen to beat them in the smaller gang, then Amarr go into hiding for hours if not til the next day. If the Amarr happen to win, they show up on the forums gloating how great they are because they won a fight with 20 more guys than the other side had." This is complete and utter crap, we run around low sec all day, loking for small fights and solo engagements, 75% of my corp go round soloing until fleet is called, so don't sit in your station maoning mutnin, about how things are becuase your to useless to your own people to get into a fleet. Yes we run away to reship, your side does exactly the same every single day, last night i watched a cruiser gang reship in to battlecruisers with a scimitar to take on our cruiser gang. Im sure most of your pilots have alot of fun running around in rifter gangs, they sure look fun =). Ladies and Gentlemen of the forum i request taht you no longer listen to mutnin as he has no valid point to make. Listen to the poeple in the militias that undock and fight and havnt been moaning for the last 4 months that amrr are over blobbing and have to many people in flet, When he himself openly states he wont help his own militia with a fleets.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.24 16:26:00 - [79] Edited by: Mutnin on 24/09/2009 16:30:36 BSC.... I guess I must always log in when you guys are running back to high sec. Last night was a perfect example. I hadn't really logged in much, and decided to see if anything was happening. I log in to see one of our older FC's asking for X's. I decided WTF, I haven't ganged up in a while and he is a good FC so I'll see what's up. Amarr reportedly had a gang with 21 in it and were "looking for a fight". From the time I logged in til the time we had a 16 man gang sitting on the Kourm gate was about 15 minutes. Soon as we made the jump to the Kourm gate, the Amarr gang jumped out of Kourm and disappeared to high sec. Sorry BSC, but I've seen that kind of thing play out time and time again..While I'm sure both side are guilty of it, I do think Minmatar have shown countless times that they will fight at the disadvantage. On the flip side I just don't see Amarr willing to do the same very often. TBH, it's the very reason I rarely gang up anymore because it always plays out the same. You spend a hour chasing the other side's gang all over trying to get a fight and end up just ganking people whom jumped into the wrong gate or baiting some guy in a belt.
Cearain	Posted - 2009.09.24 16:59:00 - [80] Let me say that I think faction war rocks. I can't really imagine ever doing anything else in eve. I can only play at random times for an hour to 2 hours at a time so itÆs great to have all the targets. If anyone knows of a better way to get pvp action in this game when you can't play allot let me know. (I'm fairly new to eve so keep that in mind when you read what IÆm gonna say) Ok that said if I log on for 2 hours I will likely spend only an hour of that time in a fleet/gang with a strong likelihood of a fight coming. The rest is more or less dead time. How can we reduce that 50% dead time? Everyone knows at least one reason why there is not more action. (There are others like few fcs etc..) Dr. Battlesmith (and countless others) have said it: Originally by: Dr BattleSmith I just want a fight.... I don't always get a chance to fleet up for FW so it kinda sucks when matar won't fight. Yes it does swing, yes there are blobs..... à It's on a constant see-saw too, Amarr come out, get bored, go home. Matar come out, no Amarr, get bored and go home.... rinse and repeat. This is my experience as well. Ambo said the same thing in his 6th post in this thread. If you necro past posts about faction war you will find this same problem mentioned again and again. So this is well known. Why does this happen? The reason this happens is because in FW there is nothing that a faction must defend. I mean even if you completely give up on plexes like Gallente did àso what? The other side gets a medal. Yep they get a pixel medal. What do you lose? Nothing. The point is, with no POS (or other thing with real value to defend) there is no way to force an engagement. There is really nothing to fight for. ItÆs meaningless warfare. ThatÆs hard for many to swallow so they try to value statistics like ôisk efficiencyö or ôloss kill ratiosö This leads to the well known problem described above. What can we do? Well we canÆt really change the rules. ThatÆs up to ccp and I really donÆt know what they could/should do about this anyway. It seems to me we just need to recognize that FW is meaningless warfare and embrace it. How? Start flying more reckless. Stop being so concerned about isk efficiency. Sometimes I am so stir crazy for a fight I feel like I would be willing to let 5 ships blow up just to get the satisfaction of one kill. At least I would be fighting instead of spinning in station. Oh no what if I lose some battleships? WouldnÆt that be the end of the world? Tech one battle ships often pay for themselves once you get platinum insurance. LetÆs say you lose on average 20mil in mods on the thing. Well ok. One GTC = 600mill. So for one gtc you can lose 30 battleships. Yep 30 of them thatÆs about the loss of a dollar per ship. As for you guys flying those frigates that cost less than 1 million isk fully fittedà. Well, you can lose 600 of them for 35 dollars. 600 of them. They cost six cents a piece. IÆm not trying to sound like Mr big bucks here, but come on isnÆt our RL time worth something? ôI want to save my nickel so IÆm going to sit around for an hour with my frigate docked. Or I may lose a nickel.ö I say, to hell with isk efficiency. We arenÆt merc corps; we are in faction war. Faction warfare is completely meaningless warfare. Meaningless warfare is a beautiful thing and is to be embraced to the fullest. DonÆt try to find meaning in ôisk efficiency.ö That road leads to everyone spending all their time refitting their ships. Lets start valuing our time just a little bit and start fighting more battles even if they are losing battles. Try to bring fleets out that are on par with what your scouts see the other side flying. Stop trying to one up them. Try to bring fleets that are on par with what your scouts see the other side flying. Stop trying to one up them. (oops sorry I think I said that twice.) People who tell you ôwinning faction warö is based on isk efficiency are fools. The truth is you are winning faction war if you are doing more meaningless fighting than the other guys. I would rather waste a dollar and get a few fights in that night, rather than waste a night saving a nickel by running from everything. In sum, faction war is great but it could be better if perspectives change slightly. Just my 2 cents.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.24 19:00:00 - [81] Originally by: Cearain How can we reduce that 50% dead time? The only way to reduce the dead time is to get people to stop constantly blobbing up. You don't have to have a FC to go get action in FW. This is what annoys the hell out of me and I see it from both sides. There just are not many people willing to go out and fight with out being in a large gang. People need to get over the timidness of needing their hands held to un-dock and just get out there and find some action. This is the problem in FW, you have 90% of the people that will only undock if there is a gang. Then out of the other 10% at least half of them roam around solo in ceptors and just run plexes. Then you have a few EVE vets that will solo but they only fly HAC's recons BC's and so on. The problem with this is they are missing the entire thing that "could" make FW awesome and full of action. First off ceptors are a waste of time to engage because in most cases unless the pilot is dumb, he will just run away from anything they can't kill. (anything bigger than a frig) Then the guys in HAC's/Recons ect.. aren't gonna get anyone to fight them with out it being a gank. Hence the reason I stopped flying my Harbi after a week, because it only attracts a gank not a fight. Simply put we need more people flying around solo or in 2 to 3 man gangs in frigs in T1 cruisers. Fly cheap stuff that doesn't cost much to lose and go find some action. I bet you anything, if more people started doing this, FW would be a hell of a lot more action than it is now. People just need to get over the need to have their hand held constantly by and FC and go find some action. Simply put, FW should be about undocking and going out to find some quick action, not sitting in the station Xing up and doing nothing because there is no FC online to run a blob. TBH I think Red vs Blue is gonna blow FW away for this very reason, because they are making a point to stay away from the big blobs and trying to encourage people to fly cheap.
Jelosavich	Posted - 2009.09.24 19:41:00 - [82] Originally by: Mutnin I guess I must always log in when you guys are running back to high sec. Amarr reportedly had a gang with 21 in it and were "looking for a fight". From the time I logged in til the time we had a 16 man gang sitting on the Kourm gate was about 15 minutes. Soon as we made the jump to the Kourm gate, the Amarr gang jumped out of Kourm and disappeared to high sec. When were you online? When I was online last night (PST) everything was absolutely dead. There were less than a handful of minnies out, and someone had taken a ~10-15 person Amarr gang 10 jumps into backwater systems just to find ANYTHING.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.24 20:13:00 - [83] Originally by: Jelosavich Originally by: Mutnin I guess I must always log in when you guys are running back to high sec. Amarr reportedly had a gang with 21 in it and were "looking for a fight". From the time I logged in til the time we had a 16 man gang sitting on the Kourm gate was about 15 minutes. Soon as we made the jump to the Kourm gate, the Amarr gang jumped out of Kourm and disappeared to high sec. When were you online? When I was online last night (PST) everything was absolutely dead. There were less than a handful of minnies out, and someone had taken a ~10-15 person Amarr gang 10 jumps into backwater systems just to find ANYTHING. I dunno what time it was, maybe around 11pm US EST, but that's just a guess. I joined the gang pretty much a min or two after I logged on. I figured that would be the only fight to be had that time of night but nothing happened. I know the Amarr gang was in Kourm, with about 5 in Auga as we all warped to the Kourm gate in Auga. My comms were screwed so I was only hearing bits and pieces but shortly after we formed up on the gate and were ready to fight the Amarr gang disappeared. Someone said the wt's went Tuomuta and I lost connection about that time. By the time I got logged back into the fleet they were bored and talking about going to 00. I was having connection problems and my comms were screwed so I ended up just dropping fleet and logging. It's been kind of the same today since I logged on.. I've gone out for a few solo roams and haven't found a single fight all day. Yet watching Militia channel and both KB's I can see Minmatar have had a fleet up most of the day and had some ganks on smaller Amarr gangs in both Auga and Dal. Yet, where is the large Amarr BS gang while Minmatar have their gang camping Kamela? It's simple, Amarr wont poke their heads out while Minmatar have a big fleet. Then when Minmatar fleet disbands Amarr will come rolling around with a BS/BC fleet and Minmatar will sit in stations. The role will reverse over and over with some ganks in between with a lot of people spending far too much time getting no "real" fights just a gank here and a gank there. This is why I don't like the blobs and why I'm vocal about it. The take away from what FW could be, which is lots of smaller scale fights with occasional fleet battles. In stead we have everyone wanting big fleet/ganks and because of that there is far too much dead time. My hope, is maybe people will wake up and see that we could be getting a lot more PVP if people would ship down and not blob up so often.
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.24 20:52:00 - [84] Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 24/09/2009 20:52:21 Mutnin all i see is you throwing your toys out the pram becuase no on will fly a t1 cruiser. People train skils to get better ships, to fly more expensive ships and to be able to out damage the other guy. Your saying you want every one to DUMB DOWN to fight on your level and keep you entertained. ****ing grow up mate, its war in eve, learn to play or stop moaning about how things arn't the way You personaly want them.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.24 21:12:00 - [85] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 24/09/2009 20:52:21 Mutnin all i see is you throwing your toys out the pram becuase no on will fly a t1 cruiser. People train skils to get better ships, to fly more expensive ships and to be able to out damage the other guy. Your saying you want every one to DUMB DOWN to fight on your level and keep you entertained. ****ing grow up mate, its war in eve, learn to play or stop moaning about how things arn't the way You personaly want them. You apparently can't see the forest for the trees if that's what you actually think. Don't worry BSC, I'm sure you wouldn't stop flying around in ceptors and hiding behind 20 others when you fly anything bigger. My post wasn't aimed at you BSC, but maybe some of the more sensible types whom actually are after a fight, rather than hiding from everything that isn't a easy gank. BTW, where was your great glorious Amarr BS gang while Minmatar camped Kamela all day?
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.24 21:23:00 - [86] I think it frustrates the TLF quite a lot that the 24th Crusade is undoubtedly an extremely risk-averse organization. I think partly thats the contribution of the RP corps in the 24th Crusade unfortunately - they really really don't like losing ships and the attitude generally filters down into the rank and file of the 24th fighters. Plus - its probably fair to say that the TLF members tend to be more casual about their gaming than the 24th Crusaders. The Minmatar want to log-in - have some fun fights, get into messy battles and see what happens and thats a fine and enjoyable way of playing the game of course. Problem is that the 24th Crusade leadership is absolutely fanatical about K/D ratio and only engaging on favourable terms and making sure the engagements are won on paper before deciding to engage. I guess on one level it means that the 24th Crusade leaders are "better" gamers than the TLF leaders and its undoubtedly the case that they get better results. But does it bring more fun for their side than their opponents? I'm not so sure about that actually and I've heard a lot of rank and file moaning and groaning at the very common decisions to withdraw to hisec whenever an actual risky engagement is offered. From my perspect as a Star Fraction pilot I have to say its gotten to the point where the 24th Crusade almost always needs to be tricked into fighting - they never really attack off their own back and its generally a matter of baiting traps and hotdropping appropriate forces. (Of course our involvement is on a slightly different level to the TLF - and we're here to destabalize 24th Crusade fleet command and try to balance the odds a bit.) But ultimately - I think a lot of the bad feelings comes from the 24th "must win and never lose ships" ethos clashing with the "lets just have fun" ethos of the TLF. Its a bit incompatible in this warzone and does seem to be stripping a lot of general fun from the conflict. Still - there's always time to turn it around but as long as its the RP corps calling all the shots in the 24th Crusade I can assure you the TLF will never get "fair fights" and Amarrians engaging against the odds unless the Minmatar players seriously threaten the 24th Crusade plexing dominance because the only thing the RP overlords of the 24th do care about is system occupancy and unless that is challenged they have absolutely no reason to risk themselves on dicy engagements. Anyway - thats my 2 cents on the current state of play. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Grim Asse	Posted - 2009.09.24 22:39:00 - [87] Edited by: Grim Asse on 24/09/2009 22:45:38 Coming from the alliance that hotdrops carriers to kill solo BS's and keeping a titan in a system for armour bonus which only stations undock range their carriers never leave in an environment designed to get new players into pvp whilst skimming those pilots and corps from the Minmatar Militia who are too frightened to take on all of the 24th, that's quite rich.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.25 00:04:00 - [88] Oh dear haven't we moved past this yet? Originally by: Grim Asse Coming from the roleplaying alliance that hotdrops carriers to kill solo BS's To kill a docking game abaddon in the 45secs you have before it disengages and redocks you need to be dealing around 170,000 points of damage. If you need to bring in battleships from out of the system you need to factor in the warp to station delay and upscale accordingly. Alternatively you can use the Titan Bridge to drop 6 battleships directly on the dock-monkey and end his ship. If you have a problem with this tactic I suggest you stop counting on docking games to protect your battleship. Quote: ... and keeping a titan in a system for armour bonus... Mostly the Erebus is useful for the bridge. We hardly ever have enemy groups prepared to engage with numbers in kamela where it would actually deploy its gang bonus to make a difference. That said we'd be happy to lend the armour bonus to a TLF commander if they wanted to force a fleet confrontation in Kamela. Quote: ... which only stations undock range their carriers never leave in ... Nonsense. You are just talking rot there. Our carriers have fought at gates/belts/fleet battles and we're generally prepared to deploy directly into 24th crusade fleet concentrations as any of your regular commanders know well. Don't let smack-instincts lead you into saying silly things that everyone knows to be untrue. Quote: ... an environment designed to get new players into pvp Incorrect. FW has never been soley the preserve of new players and nor will it ever be. It is every bit as important to the roleplay community as it is to pvp training and you need open you mind and lose the blinkers on this issue. Quote: ... whilst skimming those pilots and corps from the Minmatar Militia who are too frightened to take on all of the 24th, that's quite rich. I think you need to understand just how quickly we'd support any FW rules change that meant we were deccing the whole 24th rather than individual corps. You guys are quite fortunate we're limited in who we can actually dec and your experienced player veterans who choose to hide in the militia corp to evade our decs are quite illustrative of how seriously they see the situation. Anyway. Having completely refuted every one of your points lets move back to the debate at hand. The essentially risk-adverse nature of the 24th Crusade - as I said earlier I don't think this makes you "bad" players - just boring people to fight. Actually one of the main comments some of our new players from the TLF have said is that in SF they can chase you to hisec where previously you were immune to the enemy militia between big fights and how liberating that possibility was. This shows the frustration I mentioned on the part of the TLF at your tactics - you want to win and don't mind boring them (and yourselves) to win. SF provides an avenue to attack you while you are using NPC spawn mechanics to hide from TLF players in Amarr hisec. You have to expect people to find ways to counter your tactics. In many ways each of your earlier points represent nothing so much as your irritation that people have countered you. SF carriers on stations were initially deployed to drive yours off the field. SF domination of Kamela was designed to counter your docking games there. SF deployment of carriers into your fleet battles was to oppose your use of out of militia logistics alts. SF Titan drops counter Amarrian docking range "games". And our wardecs allow our pilots to pursue and engage you in hisec where you are otherwise completely protected from organized minmatar response. Anyway - these are just facts and observations. There is no need for smack talk on an out of character forum section. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2009.09.25 00:04:00 - [89] Originally by: Mutnin Amarr reportedly had a gang with 21 in it and were "looking for a fight". From the time I logged in til the time we had a 16 man gang sitting on the Kourm gate was about 15 minutes. Soon as we made the jump to the Kourm gate, the Amarr gang jumped out of Kourm and disappeared to high sec. You flew straight past the Amarr fleet and kept going, heard the reports of your location, we were capturing your plexes a few systems back :-P Think the response on vent was "bah not going all the way back there, they'll just dock up, what's the timer on the major?".
BlackDeej Aquila Astralis	Posted - 2009.09.25 00:32:00 - [90] In a way I agree with Mutnin - I would love to see more small gang fights, BC and down basically. One of the main problems with this is, unfortunately, Star Fraction and their HAC/BS gangs and carrier hot-drops. Is it any wonder that the Amarr Militia is cautious about fighting in smaller ships when at any time SF might undock from Kamela (behind us if we are in Kourmonen or Auga) and then bolster the Minmatar fleet, turning what could be a (more or less) even fight into a one-sided massacre ? I dont blame Star Fraction for wanting to get in on the fun, but seriously, picking off one or two pilots in a fleet while his fleetmates have to sit by and watch is pretty damn lame ! CCP need to change the game mechanics so that when someone attacks a fleet member they go flashy to that whole fleet - then at least we can defend our fleets properly. The suggestion that a Corp or Alliance has to war-dec the whole militia when they war-dec a Corp within it would solve a lot of problems for both the Amarr and Minmatar militias - this surely can't be the intended way that these mechanics are supposed to work ? An analogy would be like British troops in Iraq refusing to do anything as their ally gets shot next to them - "sorry mate, I'm not allowed to shoot the guy who's blowing you away, I can only stick a few bandages on afterwards" - I mean wtf !! tl;dr ? More small gangs = cool. Non-militia alliances war-deccing militia corps needs to be fixed to war-deccing the whole militia. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Quote: Light is faster than sound, this is why som
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.25 01:22:00 - [91] Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Originally by: Mutnin Amarr reportedly had a gang with 21 in it and were "looking for a fight". From the time I logged in til the time we had a 16 man gang sitting on the Kourm gate was about 15 minutes. Soon as we made the jump to the Kourm gate, the Amarr gang jumped out of Kourm and disappeared to high sec. You flew straight past the Amarr fleet and kept going, heard the reports of your location, we were capturing your plexes a few systems back :-P Think the response on vent was "bah not going all the way back there, they'll just dock up, what's the timer on the major?". We didn't fly anywhere.. The fleet formed up in Auga and we warped to the Kourm gate..While we were waiting for the last few guys to get to the gate we got reports you guys had left Kourm and were headed back to high sec. So in other words you guys blobbed up to orbit a plex button? Yet when you knew we had formed a fleet, to give you a fight you decided that was too boring? Damn you must have a different perspective of what FW is than me. I thought we were here for the fight and blowing up internet space ships.
Cearain	Posted - 2009.09.25 01:53:00 - [92] I was really hoping this wouldn't turn into a bunch of finger pointing. Jade I don't know who, what or when you are talking about but for the 2months time I have been in Amarr militia thatÆs not what I have found. It seems one of the top concerns of fcs in the amarr has been to make sure we don't "scare the minnies." The FCs are constantly telling people to ship down and even refusing to take more xs just so that the minnies won't run. (I personally don't like the idea of not taking more xs but I see why they do it) Its gotten to where we are making sure we have inferior ships/numbers in hopes of getting a fight. Yes there have been a few times when the FCs have not kept a somewhat overzealous militia from taking out their BCs and BSs which has lead to us one upping the enemy. But that has just been because the FCs have told the troops to bring whatever they like and we would like to bring the big stuff. It has never been the case that we have been like "lets bring better ships and 3xs their numbers in hopes they will engage." ItÆs just too easy for them to dock up or run and we know that. Like I said, there is no way to force a fight in FW. Not everything has to be perfectly balanced. Nor am I saying we need to start scripting the fights. Eve is a sand box and ganking and getting ganked is part of the deal. But when you form your fleet 3 systems away form each other where scouts can easily see what sort of fleet your bringing this intentional one upping is sort of silly. But again its like we should always go with the lowest denominator either. Nor do the fleets need to be perfectly balanced. I have been in a few fleets where the FC has said we are likely to get are ___ses handed to us (and really meant it) and jumped into a system only to have the war targets run. I can only think they thought we had more coming or hiding somewhere. I donÆt know. Other times I saw them in local saying we should have to catch them if we want to fight. Well whatever. IÆm not telling anyone how to play the game but jumping from system to system all night just to gank a slow cruiser that lost his way is not my bag. I wish there was more fighting and less docking and running. As far as Star faction goes I think the game mechanics are screwed up. You guys would get allot more fights if the entire militia could attack you. But instead even people in the same fleet have to watch as you attack other fleet members right in front of them. That is unless we can tank the sentry guns û but if we bring those ships we scare the minnies. Look IÆm not faulting the minnies. I have no idea what they say to each other when they fleet up. IÆm just saying that this notion that the Amarr only want to fight when the numbers are in their favor is completely false.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2009.09.25 02:17:00 - [93] Originally by: Mutnin So in other words you guys blobbed up to orbit a plex button? .... Damn you must have a different perspective of what FW is than me. I thought we were here for the fight and blowing up internet space ships. ugh.... Plexing in FW is NOT PvE. Plexing directly results in PvP. Anyone who thinks plexing is PvE is completely missing the point. That said, we were only in the plex because the last 3 matar fleets had ran away. Originally by: Cearain It seems one of the top concerns of fcs in the amarr has been to make sure we don't "scare the minnies." The FCs are constantly telling people to ship down and even refusing to take more xs just so that the minnies won't run. Very true.
Proxyyyy Caldari Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.25 05:51:00 - [94] Lulz all around. Im not sure about all this blob v None - blob talk, overwelming force if you can bring it shoundnt you? what is fair in eve realy = mining? Soloing in fw is not Impossible on any level you jsut got to get use to the facted you will be outnembered = ) Why is star fration still interfering, fight someone your own size. When are you gunna go anti-pirate = / i doubt you guys would but you would get more fights, im sure your blue to 95% of low sec so you can attack the newbs in fw which if i couldnt get any pew pew everywhere else i would do. I fail to understand your role? UK is fighting CVA. Another role playing alliance EM is Anti pirate. mind taking a anti-piracy position isnt easy takes balls you will lose alot of ships which you dont seem to like. If Star fation wants to join the fight sign up as corps. If not there are figths everywhere else in eve i find them everyday. As for fw i pretty much think its boring its like an area, you see the same faces everyday everyone has an understanding of how individual pilots fight. I roam null sec and low sec now, more or less in a bc now a days, you get such a deverse amount of opponents. granted alot of times you must fight outnumbered but the experience is always new and exciting. faction warfare is dull and linear. As for the reference to t1 being cheap and or somehow useless compared to t2, your dead wrong and people all over tranq taht fight enough will tell you this. after the nano nerf hac's bar the vaga are next to useless compared to a t1 bc unless for sniping purposes,. Destryers such as the thrasher are known assault ship killers and in most cases is the better choice cost to preformance over and assault frig etc... I also solo alot it means i will lose ships and noone can keep up with losing a hac every day 3 times a day even if you kill 15 dudes doing it. So cost is a very important aspect of pvp no isk means no pew pew = ( "Even the best pilots lose alot of ships" mainly cause they fight more comparatively to someone who joins a fleet battle once or twice a week. Remote repping gets played out quick i know cause we do it alot in cva there is no chanllenge in it and yes if you realy want to win bad thing props for bringing it throw in a falcon or 2 for good measure = ) there are counters for everything and when i was in min milltia any ideas that anyone suggested that wasnt about running away from an rr'ing fleet wasnt heard or didnt want to be heard. And you know what? i remember a time when i said you know why are star fation here they are not joining the fight they seem to take away most of are fights why are they here? i got somthing along the lines of "they are allies and without them we wouldnt win" AND ANOW YOU HEAR "You know its hard to fight the amarr with the tics around" WHen we were blobing the * out of the amarr you heard no complaints on are side everything was fun. Almost no one in minmatar milltia was out soloing or doing any small gang thing. More than anything its a bad enviroment to learn how to pvp cause you realy dont. Any **** can take an order, doesnt mean you know how to pvp. I even question now more than ever if it is pvp?
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.09.25 06:42:00 - [95] Edited by: Insa Rexion on 25/09/2009 06:46:25 Originally by: Grim Asse ... the Minmatar Militia who are too frightened to take on all of the 24th, that's quite rich. Make up your minds guys will you, amarr militia have claimed that we minnies are both running away/never engaging and getting slaughtered in fleet battles by amarr on a regular basis, explain to me how that works again ? Fortunately you don't have to, the killboards are testament to the fact that we DO FIGHT (and get battered quite a lot lately) so stop with the spurious bull **** dude eh ? FYI, we engaged your fleet sans logistics yesterday and murdered them, numerical advantage sure, bit then you guys normally have the support advantage... so yeah, swings and roundabouts EDIT : price check on module that allows you to repeatedly kill ur opponents despite the fact they apparently run away as soon as you undock ? I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
Constantinus Maximus	Posted - 2009.09.25 07:09:00 - [96] gf :-P
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.25 10:41:00 - [97] Ill choose to ignore mutnin from now on as he tends to have a very clouded veiw of things, where were we when you were in kamela you ask? Well shucks we were in your territory camping a gate killing loads of your tools that came to close to us, then we went and killed some plexers then managed to get a harbinger out of tuomuta, past your fleet and into the back waters of your space. i think we even killed more than your fleet did. But with regards to fleet's. I don't get why both sides are freaking moaning so much, each side it claims exactly the same as the other, YES both side overpower when they can. YES both sides wont engage when they can't get enough support. Saying the amarr are to risk avers and then saying they always bring the fight. Both sides are exactly the damn same. In all honesty, both sides bring the fight regularly and both sides don't take risk when they know it's absolutey impossible to win. You maon about logistics while at the same time we see your scimitar pilots flying around in auga. We moan you don't fight at the same time you come out in battlecruisers and screw us over. YES the minmitar DO run to ossogur when they dont have enough, and the amarr DO run to tuomuta. Its a cycle, its a game, its WAR. Where either side may use what ever advantage they have over the enemy to gain the upper hand.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.25 11:35:00 - [98] Originally by: Proxyyyy Why is star fration still interfering, fight someone your own size. When are you gunna go anti-pirate = / i doubt you guys would but you would get more fights, im sure your blue to 95% of low sec so you can attack the newbs in fw which if i couldnt get any pew pew everywhere else i would do. I have to point out to you for the record that this is Eve Online. It's a single server unified world pvp game where all actions have consequences and players are fully able to engage with the content and systems of the game as they see fit. This is also an out of character board so there is no need for silly pseudo-roleplay CVA smacktalk on this thread. As for what Star Fraction* choose to do with our playing time that really is none of your business. Particularly since it appears you have chosen to leave Faction Warfare and get involved with a different conflict entirely. And as for pirates and blues - I'd suggest you have a read of our killboard if you are in any doubts of the kind of people we're in the habit of killing - and lets face it, since your own masters in the CVA deemed many of the 24th Crusade corporations "pirates" at one time or another I can't really see what your criticism is. Quote: I fail to understand your role? UK is fighting CVA. Another role playing alliance EM is Anti pirate. mind taking a anti-piracy position? Mind reading up on our roleplay ideology before making these illjudged comments? It might help you on understanding things. Otherwise you should refrain from making suggestions about what we should or should not be doing. Quote: isnt easy takes balls you will lose alot of ships, which you dont seem to like. If Star fation wants to join the fight sign up as corps. If not there are figths everywhere else in eve i find them everyday. Ah, obviously you are just trolling then. Our list of wardec targets amongst the 24th Crusade don't include many "startup corps" as you put it. In fact we've maintained our longest decs on the self proclaimed "elite" militia corps who consider themselves good enough to stand on their own as corporations and often have significant out of militia help from alliances and 0.0 spaceholders. Quote:* And you know what? i remember a time when i said you know why are star fa*tion here they are not joining the fight they seem to take away most of are fights why are they here? i got somthing along the lines of "they are allies and without them we wouldnt win" AND NOW YOU HEAR "You know its hard to fight the amarr with the tics around" Heretics have played a somewhat similar role to Star Fraction for the 24th Crusade its true - but this is Eve, external forces will become involved in any conflict as they see fit. There is no fenced off junior pool in Eve Online. When your characters do things in game they invite reaction and consequences. These things happened to you in the 24th Crusade and thats probably part of the reason you choose to leave and join a large alliance with the numbers on their side most of the time. Fair enough, your free choice - but it doesn't give you any grounds for silly smacktalk. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.25 11:42:00 - [99] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader .. Saying the amarr are to risk avers and then saying they always bring the fight. Both sides are exactly the damn same. In all honesty, both sides bring the fight regularly and both sides don't take risk when they know it's absolutey impossible to win. To be fair, I was the one who make the solid observation that the 24th Crusade was extremely risk-adverse and thats a judgement I make from the perspective of a 3rd force commander looking for ways to undermine and weaken the 24th Crusade military campaign against the TLF. I think you do "bring the fight" - but only at limited times and generally when SF support is not available to TLF and generally when the TLF themselves has a somewhat poor fleet in various stages of disarray. Now sure, thats good tactics - but like I said, they are somewhat "boring" tactics and its frustrating the players in the TLF who want more fights with less predetermined outcomes. But its not your responsibility as players to cater to this desire of course. I've believed for a long while that the mechanics of FW do need quite a few redesigns and tweaks to make it fresh again and I'm pretty sure you can encourage and stimulate a more interesting style of engagement and campaign in FW by altering the mechanics of plexing and system occupancy at the base level. + As you and I have spoken of before, I do agree that when a 3rd party is deccing a militia corp that war should spread to the whole militia and allow all pilots in the target militia to get involved in the conflict. I think this just leads to more pvp and thats a good thing because its what we're all ultimately here for. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Proxyyyy Caldari Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.25 13:01:00 - [100] i will take you up on that offer Jade Constantine, Since i do not understand what you do. i wasnt referring to role playing in general if we are talking about it in a traditional sense i.e. you must fight cva and or be anti-pirate im tryna gain an understand of your kind of role playing who you define as enemies and why. While many kinds of external forces interacting on a broad level are indeed a part of this game. im not sure ccp intended factional warfare to be interfered on the same level as lets say a pirate corps based in low sec. mainly i think this because you guys are contributing to the desruction or the slow Deterioration of the amarr/minmatar milltia war. CCP seemed to intend some interaction on some level which is beyond me i dont get it, atleast to get more people into pvp or increase there understanding. Also no im not a cva roleplayer atleast not yet so my intention? since you made certain comments on this thread were, questions. I wanted to gain an understading about what your alliance is about. Since i was an x-pirate and flown with alot of diffrent pilots from diffrent corps, no one out side of an alliance tounament thinks of you as a strong presence in low sec in pvp or in any other form than role-playing or otherwise, that is not me flaming or trolling. Jade Constantine i will take the opportunity to contact you in-game...
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.09.25 13:40:00 - [101] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader But with regards to fleet's. I don't get why both sides are freaking moaning so much, each side it claims exactly the same as the other, YES both side overpower when they can. YES both sides wont engage when they can't get enough support. Saying the amarr are to risk avers and then saying they always bring the fight. Both sides are exactly the damn same. In all honesty, both sides bring the fight regularly and both sides don't take risk when they know it's absolutey impossible to win. You maon about logistics while at the same time we see your scimitar pilots flying around in auga. We moan you don't fight at the same time you come out in battlecruisers and screw us over. YES the minmitar DO run to ossogur when they dont have enough, and the amarr DO run to tuomuta. Its a cycle, its a game, its WAR. Where either side may use what ever advantage they have over the enemy to gain the upper hand. This pretty much, it's a war not charity ball FFS, my only real gripe is that ppl try to claim we don't fight when we clearly do. And I said it before, why the hell should the amarr not use a fleet tactic that works so well for them ? They're under no obligation to accomodate our lack of resources/organisation. We have had a few logis around lately and it's our own fault if we can't get it together and incorporate them into the main fleet for proper engagements. Pilots from both sides are guilty over exaggerating the actions of the other and I'll hold my hands up to saying "grr if it wasn't for those f***in guardians" once or twice Let's just get on with blowing the crap out of each other \o/ I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.25 13:43:00 - [102] Originally by: Proxyyyy ...im tryna gain an understand of your kind of role playing who you define as enemies and why ... While many kinds of external forces interacting on a broad level are indeed a part of this game. im not sure ccp intended factional warfare to be interfered on the same level as lets say a pirate corps based in low sec. mainly i think this because you guys are contributing to the desruction or the slow Deterioration of the amarr/minmatar milltia war. Well its easy to talk about "ccp intended this or ccp intended that" but the truth of the matter is that ccp developers care most about Eve being a giant sandbox for player interaction and what happens happens. some features work out well - invention/wormholes etc and get time and effort spend on them, some features turn out bad and get reworked - current 0.0 sov for example. But the one thing I've learned about ccp through playing the game and meeting the guys up in Iceland is that they aren't precious about who is supposed to be doing what with their game mechanics. If anything they love players finding imaginative ways to mess with their setting and play around with the environment and I think they'd have been frankly horrified if FW did turn out to be a little fenced-off region of eve where 2 week old characters duelled in rifters while the rest of eve ignored it. Faction Warfare is in lowsec for a reason - and that reason is that if you want to pay the cost and mess with it you can pay in sec status or you can pay in isk via the wardec system. Lets remember it also has a significant roleplay function - ie changing the news headlines to reflect the state of play in the 4 empires. At the moment Gallente roleplayers are pretty much disgraced-head-hanger-no-hoper-losers because of the outcome of the Black Rise theatre. It would have been ridiculous (and completely beyond the spirit of eve) if CCP had excluded any positive intervention on FW results to non corp entities (given their general encouragement of alliance creation etc etc.) Now sure, I'll grant you its possible Star Fraction has contributed to the slow deteriation of the Amarr/Minmatar front from your perspective. From mine its possible we've prevented a walkover by the Amarrians and rendered it a squalid little statemate instead. We've made absolutely no secret of our intention to target and wreck amarrian command and control corps/to interfere with Amarrian fleets and generally make life hard for 24th Crusade fleet commanders as a way of taking the pressure of the Minmatar. The reason we did this is because we wanted (as characters) to see the Amarrians lose. And we didn't (as players) want to give up our alliance identity or submit our character roleplay to being nationalists. SF is against the Amarrians - but we aren't for the minmatar republic. So yep, our roleplay is at odds with whats on offer in faction warfare with its simple polarized opposition but ultimately this is eve - you make the best of what you've got and work around problems. Quote: CCP seemed to intend some interaction on some level which is beyond me i dont get it, atleast to get more people into pvp or increase there understanding. There is an extreme conservative sentiment in some FW participants that is a holdover from a particularly grim RP dispute from years ago that I term the sandboxista tendency - in essence this is people getting upset that other people are interacting with them in a multiplayer game. But anyone claiming FW is only for novices while running their own battleships and out of militia logistics alts is quite frankly taking the mickey. FW belongs to nobody (and everybody). Quote: ... no one out side of an alliance tounament thinks of you as a strong presence in low sec in pvp or in any other form than role-playing or otherwise, that is not me flaming or trolling. We're rubbish. Someday I really hope somebody puts us in our place and wardecs the hell out of us :) 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Cearain	Posted - 2009.09.25 14:00:00 - [103] Originally by: Proxyyyy Edited by: Proxyyyy on 25/09/2009 06:00:06 Lulz all around. Im not sure about all this blob v None - blob talk, overwelming force if you can bring it shoundnt you? what is fair in eve realy = mining? I'm not sure who this is directed at. I never said anything about "fair". But it is well known that in FW its easy to scout out the opposing side. So if you want to bring out your overwhelming force and bagpipes you can parade down Kamela Kourm and Auga, but don't expect any engagements. Now certainly if you do this and the others dock up you can go ahead and plex. That seems to be what the Caldari did. I see nothing wrong with that. They won fw as defined by ccp and received a medal. Also I'm sure they had many epic battles. (But I think the participation in FW was greater in that heyday. And have my doubts the Minnies would even fight for plexes as hard as Gallente did.) But for me I would rather have battles than plexes. BTW we now see the Caldari occasionally heading over to the bleak lands looking for some action. I'm not aware of anyone from Amarr heading to Black Rise looking for more action. (But I don't know- nor do I know the amount of activity they have in their FW) So if you were directing that comment at me I think you missed the main point of my post: You can't force a fight in FW. We don't have any high stakes assets to defend like moons or sovereignty etc. We have plexes. Taking plexes will get you some standings, a hearty congratulations, and maybe a medal but it doesnÆt hurt your opponent in any way. Certainly not to the point they will risk their own isk in lopsided battles to prevent it. We have to simply deal with this reality if we want to have fights in FW.
Zen Guerrilla Minmatar Mindfunk	Posted - 2009.09.25 16:41:00 - [104] Originally by: Jade Constantine There is an extreme conservative sentiment in some FW participants that is a holdover from a particularly grim RP dispute from years ago that I term the sandboxista tendency - in essence this is people getting upset that other people are interacting with them in a multiplayer game. But anyone claiming FW is only for novices while running their own battleships and out of militia logistics alts is quite frankly taking the mickey. FW belongs to nobody (and everybody). While i believe in that whole "sandbox" approach, the way corporations and/or alliances can interfere with FC corps is just plain broken. It's not exactly fun to watch a neutral corp pick off random players from your fleet while you can't do squat about it. I only got to understand how annoying it can be when the Heretics decided to screw with our Militia like you do with the Amarr. It's ****ty game mechanics. You shouldn't be able to pick your WTs from Militia as you wish, it should be all or none. Like it is for those who join FW. While it might be somewhat entertaining from your point of view, it's just an annoyance from the other side of the fence. :( ----------------------------- Pew pew!
Theophilas Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.25 16:42:00 - [105] Why does everyone complain about fleets running in FW? As far as I know, no one wants to lose ships, of course you aren't going to engage a vastly superior force willingly unless you feel you have a chance... EVERYONE runs occasionally, it's simply a "tactical withdrawl". I am not sure how anyone can complain about it... -------------------------------------------------- No sooner said than done - so acts your man of worth.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.25 16:55:00 - [106] Originally by: Jade Constantine + As you and I have spoken of before, I do agree that when a 3rd party is deccing a militia corp that war should spread to the whole militia and allow all pilots in the target militia to get involved in the conflict. I think this just leads to more pvp and thats a good thing because its what we're all ultimately here for. Well the problem with having 3rd party corps being able to war dec the entire Militias, is I think FW would soon turn into a turkey shoot for all the big null sec alliances whom wanted a break from POS shooting. I think in the long run that would have a harmful effect on FW as most of itr's members couldn't compete with many of the alliances whom would WD it. They would be better off just letting alliances join or something.
Cearain	Posted - 2009.09.25 17:38:00 - [107] I'm not complaining about running per se. The problem is the cycle of shipping up pointed out by Dr BattleSmith, ambo, and just about every thread you care to necro talking about FW. It leads to a whole lot of nothing happening and wasted time. For me, I look forward all day to playing eve but have very limitted time to play it. It is sort of a downer to log in and waste a night due to the cycle they describe. Others might not mind so much. I'm just voicing my perspective. Also I'm not saying there aren't allot of fights too. There are, and FW is great.
Grim Asse	Posted - 2009.09.25 18:36:00 - [108] Originally by: Insa Rexion Edited by: Insa Rexion on 25/09/2009 06:46:25 Originally by: Grim Asse ... the Minmatar Militia who are too frightened to take on all of the 24th, that's quite rich. Make up your minds guys will you, amarr militia have claimed that we minnies are both running away/never engaging and getting slaughtered in fleet battles by amarr on a regular basis, explain to me how that works again ? Fortunately you don't have to, the killboards are testament to the fact that we DO FIGHT (and get battered quite a lot lately) so stop with the spurious bull **** dude eh ? FYI, we engaged your fleet sans logistics yesterday and murdered them, numerical advantage sure, bit then you guys normally have the support advantage... so yeah, swings and roundabouts You obviously misunderstood my post and quoted it out of context - My point was that SF recruit corps and pilots from within the Minmatar Militia who obviously don't feel confident enough to take on Amarr as a whole. The Minmatar bring fights - not questioning that - but corps and individuals joining SF hurt the Minmatar Militia more than their membership in SF helps the Minmatar Militia. As I understand SF's unwillingness to disband an old alliance and not willling to join the Minmatar for RP reasons, the corps joining them from TLF obviously got sick of facing a whole 24th IC fleet, deciding it would be more convenient to single out a bare handfull individual SF WTs from the blob. Ironically, formation of the very same blob was encouraged by SF as Proxyyy as an ex TLF pilot pointed out. It's simple as that - take a small gang of 8 pilots comprised of a mix of SF WTs and other 24th IC without logistics engaging a similiar sized minmatar gang during the fight, an SF gang of five warps in engaging the 3 SF WTs in the gang who are then busy fighting SF/keeping themselves alive/running away/blowing up whilst the rest of the gang, unable to tank sentry guns and unwilling to lose sec status as well as providing killrights is unable to do anything about it. Whilst I doubt Jade would deny that this is exactly how things are supposed to work from their perspective, most people would have to agree that to continue the engagement would be pointless in that situation - raising the question as to why form such a gang at all. Now in a 20 strong BS gang with logistics support, the factor SF is considerably smaller as people can remote rep and tank sentry guns, whereas a big enough SF gang to have considerable impact is less likely to happen and more importantly can be spotted far easier in advance, allowing the FC to act accordingly. Whilst I think the first type of gang would be far more fun, our kamela dwelling party poopers ruin the fun for both sides.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.25 19:11:00 - [109] Originally by: Grim Asse You obviously misunderstood my post and quoted it out of context - My point was that SF recruit corps and pilots from within the Minmatar Militia who obviously don't feel confident enough to take on Amarr as a whole. The Minmatar bring fights - not questioning that - but corps and individuals joining SF hurt the Minmatar Militia more than their membership in SF helps the Minmatar Militia. As I understand SF's unwillingness to disband an old alliance and not willling to join the Minmatar for RP reasons, the corps joining them from TLF obviously got sick of facing a whole 24th IC fleet, deciding it would be more convenient to single out a bare handfull individual SF WTs from the blob. Ironically, formation of the very same blob was encouraged by SF as Proxyyy as an ex TLF pilot pointed out. It's simple as that - take a small gang of 8 pilots comprised of a mix of SF WTs and other 24th IC without logistics engaging a similiar sized minmatar gang during the fight, an SF gang of five warps in engaging the 3 SF WTs in the gang who are then busy fighting SF/keeping themselves alive/running away/blowing up whilst the rest of the gang, unable to tank sentry guns and unwilling to lose sec status as well as providing killrights is unable to do anything about it. Whilst I doubt Jade would deny that this is exactly how things are supposed to work from their perspective, most people would have to agree that to continue the engagement would be pointless in that situation - raising the question as to why form such a gang at all. Now in a 20 strong BS gang with logistics support, the factor SF is considerably smaller as people can remote rep and tank sentry guns, whereas a big enough SF gang to have considerable impact is less likely to happen and more importantly can be spotted far easier in advance, allowing the FC to act accordingly. Whilst I think the first type of gang would be far more fun, our kamela dwelling party poopers ruin the fun for both sides. I think you are talking out your ass again.. If someone joins SF from TLF or one of the Militia corps, doesn't mean they are scared of Amarr militia.. That's just laughable at best. Personally, I think the biggest flaw with FW is it's a "part time" war dec essentially. All you have to do is go hide in the safety of high sec and you face little to no danger. Something that Amarr have down to a science these days. I've considered doing the war decing myself, just to be able to chase you guys into high sec. It's what I was planning to do when I pulled my corp out of FW a week or so ago, but other corp-mates wanted to rejoin FW so we did.
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.09.25 19:36:00 - [110] Originally by: Mutnin Amarr reportedly had a gang with 21 in it and were "looking for a fight". From the time I logged in til the time we had a 16 man gang sitting on the Kourm gate was about 15 minutes. Soon as we made the jump to the Kourm gate, the Amarr gang jumped out of Kourm and disappeared to high sec. Sorry BSC, but I've seen that kind of thing play out time and time again..While I'm sure both side are guilty of it, I do think Minmatar have shown countless times that they will fight at the disadvantage. On the flip side I just don't see Amarr willing to do the same very often. Everyone always thinks they're the only ones who fight at a disadvantage. In my experience, this is usually do to chronic over estimating how many people the enemy has, and underestimating how many people the enemy thinks you have. You think you're jumping 16 into their 21. But really they only have 14 in gang and their scout says there are 22 war targets in the next system over. I've seen it happen over and over.
Proxyyyy Caldari Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.25 20:38:00 - [111] Originally by: Mutnin Originally by: Jade Constantine + As you and I have spoken of before, I do agree that when a 3rd party is deccing a militia corp that war should spread to the whole militia and allow all pilots in the target militia to get involved in the conflict. I think this just leads to more pvp and thats a good thing because its what we're all ultimately here for. Well the problem with having 3rd party corps being able to war dec the entire Militias, is I think FW would soon turn into a turkey shoot for all the big null sec alliances whom wanted a break from POS shooting. I think in the long run that would have a harmful effect on FW as most of itr's members couldn't compete with many of the alliances whom would WD it. They would be better off just letting alliances join or something. So agree... My thoughts on the subject were that faction warfare was to have some exposure to low sec i.e. gate camps and just random acts of piracy on millitia members. In there thinking which im completely speculating on at this point, im not sure they were contemplating an experienced corp/alliance would even bother interfering with somthing obviously built for new pilots to learn how to pvp. If that was to be the case, then they would just have to join faction warfare to get that opportunity. "Would seem like a turky shoot to many" but CCP never thought of star fa*tion when they came up with this uber idea = ) Currently any random large and experienced entities like lets say, a goonswarm can declare war on the minmatar milltia and completly lock it down. There by ending faction warfare on the Amarr/Minmatar front. "Complete whitewash. Goonswarm blobbed faction warfare to death" Everybody Wins!!! Accept the newbs \0/
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.25 21:20:00 - [112] Originally by: Proxyyyy So agree... My thoughts on the subject were that faction warfare was to have some exposure to low sec i.e. gate camps and just random acts of piracy on millitia members. In there thinking which im completely speculating on at this point, im not sure they were contemplating an experienced corp/alliance would even bother interfering with somthing obviously built for new pilots to learn how to pvp. If that was to be the case, then they would just have to join faction warfare to get that opportunity. "Would seem like a turky shoot to many" but CCP never thought of star fa*tion when they came up with this uber idea = ) Currently any random large and experienced entities like lets say, a goonswarm can declare war on the minmatar milltia and completly lock it down. There by ending faction warfare on the Amarr/Minmatar front. "Complete whitewash. Goonswarm blobbed faction warfare to death" Everybody Wins!!! Accept the newbs \0/ Well you sound like it's more about a beef with SF than anything else. I have no issues at all with corps/alliances war Decing Militia corps. Just because you are in FW, doesn't mean you should be free from any other risks in EVE. As it sits right now, FW is more like "part-time" PVP because people can just go hide in high sec anytime they want with no real threat of dieing unless they are dumb. Any other war decing system does not allow you to hide in high sec safety, away from your WT's. That should change IMHO and right now the only way to deal with this is via being in a 3rd party corp and using war decs. I'm just saying that if Corps/Alliances could just WD the entire Militia like it was an Alliance it would be bad for FW. It would quickly become the no risk PVP for all the null sec alliances with endless amounts of ISK to burn.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2009.09.25 21:28:00 - [113] You know who blobs up, runs away at the specter of a fair fight, and who is afraid to leave high sec without a whole bunch of friends? Everyone. Absolutely everyone. The entire FW, on all sides, is basically the same. If you think your side is so e-honourable and the other side isn't, just for kicks run a few missions and join the enemy militia for a while. It will be the exact same experience, with the exact same whines about how you have to run because they were blobbing (when they have the advantage) and oh-em-gee the other side is a bunch of cowards afraid to fight (when you have the advantage). Seriously, people, get a grip.
Proxyyyy Caldari Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.25 21:37:00 - [114] Originally by: Emperor Cheney You know who blobs up, runs away at the specter of a fair fight, and who is afraid to leave high sec without a whole bunch of friends? Everyone. Absolutely everyone. The entire FW, on all sides, is basically the same. If you think your side is so e-honourable and the other side isn't, just for kicks run a few missions and join the enemy militia for a while. It will be the exact same experience, with the exact same whines about how you have to run because they were blobbing (when they have the advantage) and oh-em-gee the other side is a bunch of cowards afraid to fight (when you have the advantage). Seriously, people, get a grip. This^ so true it isnt even funny, i may have been in the minmatar milltia but i never realy hated the amarr milltia the way some do, at that point you been in it to long... And yeah i dont like star faction, well i use to like them but that was before when all i new about them was 10 thorax's = )
Grim Asse	Posted - 2009.09.25 23:16:00 - [115] Originally by: Emperor Cheney You know who blobs up, runs away at the specter of a fair fight, and who is afraid to leave high sec without a whole bunch of friends? Everyone. Absolutely everyone. The entire FW, on all sides, is basically the same. If you think your side is so e-honourable and the other side isn't, just for kicks run a few missions and join the enemy militia for a while. It will be the exact same experience, with the exact same whines about how you have to run because they were blobbing (when they have the advantage) and oh-em-gee the other side is a bunch of cowards afraid to fight (when you have the advantage). Seriously, people, get a grip. Agreed - it's what I was getting at in my previous post - it's far more enjoyable to win rather than losing - and that's what the game is about and what people are adapting to - my post was merely explaining some of the mechanics leading to the current state of affairs in the area. Considering ad hominem attacks in this thread, the proverbial "never argue with an i..." springs to mind, so I'll leave it at that...
Arachidamia Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.09.26 00:06:00 - [116] Originally by: Mutnin Personally, I think the biggest flaw with FW is it's a "part time" war dec essentially. All you have to do is go hide in the safety of high sec and you face little to no danger. Something that Amarr have down to a science these days. Myself, I think that's a major strength of FW. I like how I can just bugger off to high sec and make some iskies for new ships in relative safety. If that wasn't possible... well, people would just keep hopping in and out of FW, giving both sides even less targets. Though tbh, it's probably pointless to reply to you. You clearly have such a one sided viewpoint it's hard to take anything you take seriously. Every other line you spew out is some crude insult to the Amarr militia. It's pretty pathetic to watch really. Like has already been said, everyone blobs. Things swing from one militia to another, but overall it's all the same on both sides. It's pretty hilarious to watch people accuse the other side of doing one thing... when the accuser does exactly the same thing. All I can say is I've had some good fights, and some not so good fights. But it's all been pretty snazzy overall and I'm sure it will continue to be so.
Constantinus Maximus	Posted - 2009.09.26 04:29:00 - [117] The whole third forces issue is solely the fault of CCP. They seemed to believe they could make FW an "arena" and remove all connections to the wider universe. There was a broken philosophy of "we don't want it to break 0.0, there should be no real rewards". They do seem to have seen the light, however the original plans seem to be a lot different to the direction users have pushed. In the end, it was ludicrous to think that you could isolate FW from the universe. They were wrong. They broke it. I guess they've tried a little to fix it and with the upcoming sov changes they'll have to make sure FW is fairly well working as a pressure release valve for all the people that don't want to live in 0.0 during the year of the changes. Overall CCP seemed to think FW was something for noobs and morons, that it wouldn't really be fun and no one would want to play it seriously. While some users found it to be the best part of the game and much better then any "0.0 end game".
Hidden Snake Caldari More-Cowbell	Posted - 2009.09.26 13:57:00 - [118] Originally by: Constantinus Maximus The whole third forces issue is solely the fault of CCP. They seemed to believe they could make FW an "arena" and remove all connections to the wider universe. There was a broken philosophy of "we don't want it to break 0.0, there should be no real rewards". They do seem to have seen the light, however the original plans seem to be a lot different to the direction users have pushed. In the end, it was ludicrous to think that you could isolate FW from the universe. They were wrong. They broke it. I guess they've tried a little to fix it and with the upcoming sov changes they'll have to make sure FW is fairly well working as a pressure release valve for all the people that don't want to live in 0.0 during the year of the changes. Overall CCP seemed to think FW was something for noobs and morons, that it wouldn't really be fun and no one would want to play it seriously. While some users found it to be the best part of the game and much better then any "0.0 end game". FW is better then 0.0 but still need to fix the wardec militia corps mechanics
In4r4	Posted - 2009.09.26 19:07:00 - [119] Originally by: Hidden Snake FW is better then 0.0 but still need to fix the wardec militia corps mechanics Originally by: Constantinus Maximus While some users found it to be the best part of the game and much better then any "0.0 end game". Keep telling yourselves that . FW is there so the pubbies can get some pew pew before they graduate to the higher end pvp. If any of you honestly feel that a few badly run , badly organised corps / fleets fighting other poor pilots in crap ships lead by crap FC's is as good as it gets in EvE you should probably quit now.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.09.26 19:48:00 - [120] This will likely be flamed by the "elite" but it needs to be said. Originally by: In4r4 Keep telling yourselves that... Unless something has drastically changed in the last year there is little to no PvP in 0.0 .. and no 300+ v 300+ shooting things name down/up is not PvP, that's an arcade game. There may be roams running around ganking unaware haulers, capitals and ratters, but again that is not PvP, that is muggings. Null-sec PvP is a battle of wits between FC's. The one with better intel, understanding of game and fleet composition wins ... might as well stick let them play chess to determine a winner. Call it FCvFC or GroupVsGroup, but please don't refer to it as PvP. FW/low-sec PvP on the other hand is not just a battle of wits between FC's but of individual fittings, spacial awareness, ship/weapon recognition, target calling and balls. The smaller scale means that the individuals actions, or lack thereof, can decide who wins or loses, the players are fighting each other and not game mechanics.
Proxyyyy Caldari Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.26 23:03:00 - [121] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida This will likely be flamed by the "elite" but it needs to be said. Originally by: In4r4 Keep telling yourselves that... Unless something has drastically changed in the last year there is little to no PvP in 0.0 .. and no 300+ v 300+ shooting things name down/up is not PvP, that's an arcade game. There may be roams running around ganking unaware haulers, capitals and ratters, but again that is not PvP, that is muggings. Null-sec PvP is a battle of wits between FC's. The one with better intel, understanding of game and fleet composition wins ... might as well stick let them play chess to determine a winner. Call it FCvFC or GroupVsGroup, but please don't refer to it as PvP. FW/low-sec PvP on the other hand is not just a battle of wits between FC's but of individual fittings, spacial awareness, ship/weapon recognition, target calling and balls. The smaller scale means that the individuals actions, or lack thereof, can decide who wins or loses, the players are fighting each other and not game mechanics. This^ and the facted that people in 0.0 think they are uber is the joke realy, cause 95% of them cant pvp the rest are in pvp focused alliances like cry havoc ,pl ,tri ,minor threat... In 0.0 skill doesnt win more or less numbers and logistics i.e. how many ships can be replaced and fielded in a timely fasion. The majority of the best pvp'ers are in low sec, and are pirates. i know this cause when i roam null/sec solo i find it easy to kill people there compared to low sec. and piracy has changed, now more than ever pirates are fighting each other and almost never engaging neutrals, mainly cause they tend to stay away from low sec. Faction warfare is as lame as null sec, in that i mean the quality of pilots is largely low, and they use numbers to compensate for this, indeed many wont undock unless within a large group/fleet up. "NOT UNLIKE 0.0" Its always funny how pilots in null sec hate pirates and low sec and look down on them, but praise pirate aliances like pl and look up to them. PL even recruites threw its pirate alt corp SNIGWAFFE instead of tainting them self with to many bad pilots from 0.0 Its realy funny when you think about it, but keep on thinking null sec is uber = )
Soulitice	Posted - 2009.09.26 23:29:00 - [122] Edited by: Soulitice on 26/09/2009 23:37:18 It seems like too much emphasis is put into the blob in FW. FW isn't won by random slow moving blobs of boredom. Why do people seem to not care about the plex? I haven't FW in about a year so maybe the rules have changed, but I reacall you won systems by plexing, not by killing the other militia. I am looking for a Minmatar FW corp to call home: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1185172
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.09.27 00:18:00 - [123] Originally by: Soulitice Edited by: Soulitice on 26/09/2009 23:37:18 It seems like too much emphasis is put into the blob in FW. FW isn't won by random slow moving blobs of boredom. Why do people seem to not care about the plex? I haven't FW in about a year so maybe the rules have changed, but I reacall you won systems by plexing, not by killing the other militia. I am looking for a Minmatar FW corp to call home: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1185172 I actually gave it a go and tried to use plexes to get fights for about a month or so. I actually got more fights out of pirates that came into the plexes, than I did from FW members. The problem is in most cases the plexers essentially are doing it for either standings or RP reasons. They fit their ships to orbit the button fast enough to tank the NPC's but never really fit for a fight. This means typically, unless they have a good advantage with ships or numbers they will warp out of the plex the min you enter. That or will hide behind all the NPC rats if it's their sides plex and make you take full aggro from the rats before they will engage.
waruiushiro CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.09.27 04:07:00 - [124] Originally by: Proxyyyy This^ and the facted that people in 0.0 think they are uber is the joke realy, cause 95% of them cant pvp the rest are in pvp focused alliances like cry havoc ,pl ,tri ,minor threat... In 0.0 skill doesnt win more or less numbers and logistics i.e. how many ships can be replaced and fielded in a timely fasion. The majority of the best pvp'ers are in low sec, and are pirates. i know this cause when i roam null/sec solo i find it easy to kill people there compared to low sec. and piracy has changed, now more than ever pirates are fighting each other and almost never engaging neutrals, mainly cause they tend to stay away from low sec. Faction warfare is as lame as null sec, in that i mean the quality of pilots is largely low, and they use numbers to compensate for this, indeed many wont undock unless within a large group/fleet up. "NOT UNLIKE 0.0" Its always funny how pilots in null sec hate pirates and low sec and look down on them, but praise pirate aliances like pl and look up to them. PL even recruites threw its pirate alt corp SNIGWAFFE instead of tainting them self with to many bad pilots from 0.0 Its realy funny when you think about it, but keep on thinking null sec is uber = ) I dunno man, FW doesn't really have the dedicated leadership that nullsec does. In null you get a lot of attitude-heavy pilots who do nothing but carefully orchestrated blob ganks. FW is blobs too, but there's a lot more individual skill involved because your hand isn't necessarily being held. Decent pilots can play an active role because there's usually a void to fill, it's more of a collective fleet effort and its easier to be a part of the bigger picture rather than just fade into the background.
Baruc Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2009.09.28 12:30:00 - [125] Well first, THANK YOU to the people who turned this QQ fest into intermittent bits of coherent discussion. To the rest, ENOUGH WITH THE QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ ALREADY!!!! I joined FW about 3 days ago cause I was bored in high sec due to the complete lack of decent PvP, and I had left 0.0 due to the never ending blobs and POS shooting. So here I am in day 3, I have 21 kills (not epic but kills none the less) and most were quite fun. Day 1 I was involved in a minmi carrier kill. We warped my carrier to a guy behind him and carrier bowled him 60km off the station, then brought the pain. It was awesome fun! That aside IÆve been in some nice fights as well as being blobÆd a couple times. Such is PeeVeePee no? Since this thread is about whether FW is still going strong I would say ôthe proof is in the puddingö. There are kills / deaths every day, there are some ppl who roam in small gangs or solo. There are blobs from BOTH SIDES. And there are some carriers sitting on stations every once in a while (mine included). So ya its still going strong and I hope / expect to get many more nice fights and maby even bowl a couple more capital ships in the future. LESS QQ MOAR PEW PEW
Zen Guerrilla Minmatar Mindfunk	Posted - 2009.09.28 16:08:00 - [126] Originally by: Baruc LESS QQ MOAR PEW PEW I second that. Let's all just cut the crap here and let the guns do the talking. ----------------------------- Pew pew!
The Yzzerman Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2009.10.02 13:21:00 - [127] I think the hammer are about too hit back again. To be continued......
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.10.05 15:25:00 - [128] Let's see less whining and more fighting. People always complain about being blobbed or the enemy not meeting them on their own terms. However, crying or goading the enemy is not going to make them engage, and blobbing is a fact of life and everyone does it. So the Minmatar only fly small ships and the Amarr don't leave home without their precious Guardians. The fact of the matter is that neither side wants to abandon their preferred tactics to get action, but unfortunately, this is exactly what you need to do. If the Minmatar want to attack the repper fleets, they need to get into bigger ships, or neut the hell out of those logistics ships. If the Amarr want to fight the Minmatar, they're going to have to get into smaller ship fleets now and again. If no-one will engage your fleet, why form it? Surely it's better to abandon the reppers for once and increase the chance of a fight. It does mean an increased risk, but then, you might get some action. It comes down to this: do you want the action, coupled with the risk, or do you want to play it safe and avoid any kind of combat? Both sides are guilty of stubbornly sticking to one tactic, and one tactic only. This game evolves, and so do the tactics.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.05 16:41:00 - [129] Last night was an interesting example actually. SF pilots got mustered for action when one of our directors noticed a large Amarrian battleship-centred warfleet trolling around the warzone including many of our actual war targets. Minmatar were raising a fleet to counter but were somewhat outgunned by the Amarrian ship classes and the Caldari group that was obviously cooperating with the 24th and looking to pincer the TLF. Anway, we raised a moderate-sized battleship group of our own backed by a pair of carriers ready to jump-in and raise the stakes if the battle happened on a gate. The TLF continued to muster their own forces and the 24th/StatePro forces decided to fortify a major unrestricted complex in Anka system to make their stand in. I imagine both sides were effectively scouting the other so the relative numbers are no secret. It was pretty even in absolute hull mumbers with the 24th/StatePro having more logistics ships/battleships and the TLF/SF side having the bonus of obvious carrier support. The reason the battle didn't happen however was the chosen ground of the 24th's fleet commander. Forming up inside a major unrestricted provides some significant bonuses to his forces: 1. warp in is preset so the defenders can spread their tackle -> dps -> remote rep in staggered ranges from the offensive arrival point. 2. Major unrestricted aren't completely unrestricted (they don't allow cynos for example) so our carriers would have to slow boat in and would be a long way from the enemy logistics. 3. Amarrian NPCs will be shooting all non-amarrians (relatively minor in a battle of this size but still relevant). --- So the effect of one of two roughly equal forces choosing to hole up in a poweful defensible position is to face the aggressor with the choice of either a) not engaging or b) engaging and getting slaughtered. And unsurprisingly the TLF commander chose to remain mobile outside the plex and wait for the 24th to move from their foxhole (knowing that there is an absolute upper limit on how long you can keep 100+ players from amarr/caldari faction warfare boxed up in a plex with no fighting :) Eventually the 24th/StatePro realized that our side wasn't going to jump in to their complex to get slaughtered on prepared ground and instead warped away to hisec and escaped. So nobody got a fight - but it was still an interesting bit of tactical manouver and brinksmanship. I think if we'd had twice the numbers it would have been a no-brainer and we should have assaulted but given the balance of forces was so even it was the right call on the part of the TLF commander to wait the 24th out and keep space superiority post Amarrian retreat. Its also interesting in the demonstration of how to setup a huge fleet battle in FW - its not enough to just put 100 guys in a plex and smack-talk the enemy into attacking - you have to present an inviting battle that "looks winnable" if you want to sucker people into this kind of thing - especially when the aggressor has no real reason or motive to fight on disadventageous ground in the current occupancy stalemate with no real changes occuring. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Little Feathers	Posted - 2009.10.05 16:41:00 - [130] As I have zero experience in FW, I was wanting to ask a question: If I were to join Minmatar in FW for a while, then decide I want to join a group of pilots on the Amarr side (ie. switch to Amarr myself), would that be possible? Or would the Amarr navies rip me to pieces for my prior Minmatar activities before I could join up? In essence, does FW activity necessitate a long-term loss of standing with the opposing side - even after retirement?
The Yzzerman Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2009.10.05 18:26:00 - [131] I have to say that it could have been a epic battle for amarr/minmatar, but sadly it didnt happen. I will not flame/blame anyone for it. Just I am sure it will in a soon future going to happen. Hail Hoffa...
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.05 19:15:00 - [132] Originally by: Jade Constantine The Stalemate Unrestricted majors are probably the only place where I wouldn't fight, but not for the reasons you mention because they are more or less invalid. The main reason it was chosen I suspect was to be away from sentries so Matari supporters such as yourself might be engaged freely by everyone. 1+2: All FW beacons can be warped to at range, you basically have a situation where the enemy can come in at ANY point within 100km of the warp-in marker ... that is a massive amount of space to cover. 3: NPCs don't fire unless "activated", if no Matari pilot has been inside capture range or fired on them the navy vessels will idle perpetually. From the chatter in militia at the time in question, the fleets sounded pretty equal, would have been one hell of a battle had it happened, but it fizzled like so many other of the overdone weekend wind-ups have
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2009.10.06 01:28:00 - [133] Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 06/10/2009 01:29:11 Originally by: Soulitice Edited by: Soulitice on 26/09/2009 23:37:18 It seems like too much emphasis is put into the blob in FW. FW isn't won by random slow moving blobs of boredom. Why do people seem to not care about the plex? I haven't FW in about a year so maybe the rules have changed, but I reacall you won systems by plexing, not by killing the other militia. Why are plex a dirty word? A. No one except CEOs cares about faction standings. B. There are no rewards. C. Ranks are meaningless. D. Most people come to FW with the paradigm that plex = PvE and don't realise it's a focal point for PvP in FW. There needs to be a reason for the enemy to stop you from capturing. edit: oh and what does capturing a system do anyway? Anything? Nope.....
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.10.06 02:36:00 - [134] Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Why are plex a dirty word? A. No one except CEOs cares about faction standings. B. There are no rewards. C. Ranks are meaningless. D. Most people come to FW with the paradigm that plex = PvE and don't realise it's a focal point for PvP in FW. There needs to be a reason for the enemy to stop you from capturing. edit: oh and what does capturing a system do anyway? Anything? Nope..... Plexing does equal PVE in FW, because most of the people plexing run around in their nano frigs or ceptors. This way they can orbit the button speed tanking the NPC's but almost always run at first sight of a enemy. Mission plexes are even worse. However I can't say I really blame them, because plexes are a bad method of trying to force PVP. The reason being, the NPC's offer the defenders a hell of a large advantage in smaller fights.
Ambo I've Got Nothing	Posted - 2009.10.06 07:51:00 - [135] It was a real shame that fight didn't happen on Sunday night. I really don't know who would have won though the SF carriers may have tipped the balance. Both fleets had strong logistics, ewar and DPS... Would certainly have been a whole lot of fun whichever way it went. Oh well, maybe next time. --------------------------------------
Jelosavich	Posted - 2009.10.06 19:24:00 - [136] Originally by: Jade Constantine Stuff As said before, those points are largely invalid as to fighting in a PLEX. As for numbers, as far as I was aware we were outgunned significantly by the minmatar/gallente (not sure if the gals were there, but we assumed they were because of the size of the enemy fleet) and the 30ish SF that were reported. And besides your point, most of the NPCs were destroyed because they had been attacking the Caldari ships while they were in the plex.
Ambo I've Got Nothing	Posted - 2009.10.07 07:43:00 - [137] Originally by: Jelosavich Originally by: Jade Constantine Stuff As said before, those points are largely invalid as to fighting in a PLEX. As for numbers, as far as I was aware we were outgunned significantly by the minmatar/gallente (not sure if the gals were there, but we assumed they were because of the size of the enemy fleet) and the 30ish SF that were reported. And besides your point, most of the NPCs were destroyed because they had been attacking the Caldari ships while they were in the plex. Numbers were approx 100 on each side. Minmatar + Star Fraction VS Caldari + Amarr (As far as I know there were no Galante around, certainly never saw any) I think Amarr/Caldari had an advantage in BS & BC sized hulls but SF had their carriers ready to go. Not sure on any of this though cos it's hard to get exact counts with fleets that big. Would certainly have been fun. --------------------------------------
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.10.07 13:42:00 - [138] Welll to fight against 3 forces with carrier backup would be pointless. So minmatar strategy to outblob us didnt worked its just shame they didnt realise it for 2 hours of waiting.
Ocerdyn V I R I I	Posted - 2009.10.07 13:47:00 - [139] Originally by: Ambo Originally by: Jelosavich Originally by: Jade Constantine Stuff As said before, those points are largely invalid as to fighting in a PLEX. As for numbers, as far as I was aware we were outgunned significantly by the minmatar/gallente (not sure if the gals were there, but we assumed they were because of the size of the enemy fleet) and the 30ish SF that were reported. And besides your point, most of the NPCs were destroyed because they had been attacking the Caldari ships while they were in the plex. Numbers were approx 100 on each side. Minmatar + Star Fraction VS Caldari + Amarr (As far as I know there were no Galante around, certainly never saw any) I think Amarr/Caldari had an advantage in BS & BC sized hulls but SF had their carriers ready to go. Not sure on any of this though cos it's hard to get exact counts with fleets that big. Would certainly have been fun. How's the LAG in Faction Warfare these days? Last time I left, there was so much lag/desync/whateveryoucallit from a 30 on 30, the people would get kicked from the game. A 100 on 100, if actually took place, would likely cause a node-crash in those days... Any better?
Ambo I've Got Nothing	Posted - 2009.10.07 15:32:00 - [140] Originally by: Nur AlHuda Welll to fight against 3 forces with carrier backup would be pointless. So minmatar strategy to outblob us didnt worked its just shame they didnt realise it for 2 hours of waiting. 3 forces? Perhaps you missed the bit where I said Galante weren't involved? As I've already said, fleet sizes were about the same, would have been a close one. Our strategy wasn't to outblob you, it was to have a fun fight. Sadly, it didn't happen because the stakes were too high and the forces so evenly matched that neither side was willing to take any uneccessary risks. Originally by: Ocerdyn How's the LAG in Faction Warfare these days? Last time I left, there was so much lag/desync/whateveryoucallit from a 30 on 30, the people would get kicked from the game. A 100 on 100, if actually took place, would likely cause a node-crash in those days... Any better? It's actually really good now. When I first joined, it was a few weeks before the lag fix and I had a couple of lag crazy deaths in fleets of about 30. Now, I've certainly been in fleet fights with around 100 ships total with no issues. Not had anything quite as big as what almost went down last Sunday though. (200 odd total) --------------------------------------
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.10.07 18:05:00 - [141] Edited by: Insa Rexion on 07/10/2009 18:06:33 Don't really get why anyone would bother trying to find a person to blame or a moral victory in a situation where there was neither. On paper the two sides were about as evenly matched as you are going to get with out setting down rules before the engagement. We heard reports of the Amarr numbering up to 100-120 once the caldari were included and they a greater denisty of BS/BCs, we had around 70 and 30 SF including carrier support. Each side would have held an advantage in their chosen ground, understandably neither FC wished to give this up so why all the finger pointing ? Perhaps if the two fleets had met before getting a chance to choose their ground this fight may have happened, but they did not sadly, but there's really no point trying to find fault there. Had 1 of the FCs said "**** it" and given up the advantage to get a fight and lost, the same ppl finger pointing would prolly be crowing about fail FCing. Lets hope that next time fate intervenes to allow an epic engagement, but until then I just want to say good job to both FCs for getting out 2 awesome fleets and also to the minnie fleet for the level of discipline we showed whilst our balls got bluer and bluer. o7 I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
Ocerdyn V I R I I	Posted - 2009.10.07 19:19:00 - [142] Originally by: Insa Rexion Edited by: Insa Rexion on 07/10/2009 18:06:33 Don't really get why anyone would bother trying to find a person to blame or a moral victory in a situation where there was neither. On paper the two sides were about as evenly matched as you are going to get with out setting down rules before the engagement. We heard reports of the Amarr numbering up to 100-120 once the caldari were included and they a greater denisty of BS/BCs, we had around 70 and 30 SF including carrier support. Each side would have held an advantage in their chosen ground, understandably neither FC wished to give this up so why all the finger pointing ? Perhaps if the two fleets had met before getting a chance to choose their ground this fight may have happened, but they did not sadly, but there's really no point trying to find fault there. Had 1 of the FCs said "**** it" and given up the advantage to get a fight and lost, the same ppl finger pointing would prolly be crowing about fail FCing. Lets hope that next time fate intervenes to allow an epic engagement, but until then I just want to say good job to both FCs for getting out 2 awesome fleets and also to the minnie fleet for the level of discipline we showed whilst our balls got bluer and bluer. o7 Who had more Logistics?
Jelosavich	Posted - 2009.10.07 19:35:00 - [143] We definitely didn't have 100, and from what we saw, we were evenly matched in numbers against the minmatar alone. Add to that 30 SF with carriers and there was no way we were going to engage on your terms. But yes, too bad there wasn't a fight.
Captain Tardbar	Posted - 2009.10.07 20:04:00 - [144] Edited by: Captain Tardbar on 07/10/2009 20:04:05 Originally by: Droog 1 Edited by: Droog 1 on 16/09/2009 11:08:36 Originally by: Allison A'vani but since the Caldari technically beat the Gallente I'm assuming that there isn't too much fighting going on there (correct me if I'm wrong). You are wrong. Caldari die every day to the Gallentes who have adapted and use superior tactics. Tama gate camp!
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.10.07 20:22:00 - [145] Originally by: Jelosavich We definitely didn't have 100, and from what we saw, we were evenly matched in numbers against the minmatar alone. Add to that 30 SF with carriers and there was no way we were going to engage on your terms. But yes, too bad there wasn't a fight. Originally by: Ocerdyn Who had more Logistics? Jebus guys, get over it, I don't think anyone "facts" are going to to tie up are they. How many each side had, how many logis they had yada yada yada. Someone even tried to claim that the gallente were backing us up and they were not anywhere near this fight. fact remains that we both amassed large fleets that for fairly understandable reasons did not engage (a shame I know). But I am afraid you will just have to accept that both sides went home without bragging rights or moral victory. Neither FC was under any obligation to give away the advantage of their chosen ground to the other side in this particular standoff...deal with it and stop QQing I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
Ocerdyn V I R I I	Posted - 2009.10.07 20:34:00 - [146] Originally by: Insa Rexion Originally by: Jelosavich We definitely didn't have 100, and from what we saw, we were evenly matched in numbers against the minmatar alone. Add to that 30 SF with carriers and there was no way we were going to engage on your terms. But yes, too bad there wasn't a fight. Originally by: Ocerdyn Who had more Logistics? Jebus guys, get over it, I don't think anyone "facts" are going to to tie up are they. How many each side had, how many logis they had yada yada yada. Someone even tried to claim that the gallente were backing us up and they were not anywhere near this fight. fact remains that we both amassed large fleets that for fairly understandable reasons did not engage (a shame I know). But I am afraid you will just have to accept that both sides went home without bragging rights or moral victory. Neither FC was under any obligation to give away the advantage of their chosen ground to the other side in this particular standoff...deal with it and stop QQing I'm not even in FW. I wasn't attempting to shift blame on why the fight didn't happen. I was saying, whomever had more logistics would have won. For every 1 competant logistics pilot, I'd feel safe to engage 5-10 additional contacts depending on ship types. So if the numbers were equal and one side had more logistics and they had a decent FC, then chances are, they would have won. Keep that in mind next time you guys are neck to neck in pilots. And maybe one side will actually engage.
Bomberlocks Minmatar Icarus Prime	Posted - 2009.10.07 21:18:00 - [147] Originally by: Nur AlHuda Originally by: Mutnin ... Well you know each militia has around 200 people online so each militia has potential to form up a decent fleets. Amarrians bring out the big stuff and t2 ships couse we like also to fly those things and not just to station spin them around. Minmatars use trash ships with explanation that they can pvp more and afford more losses. But they forget that each time they loose a fleet of t1 ships fitted with t2 they oculd rather invest money to t2 ships with t2 setup and with much better performance. Its just basic clash of ideologies. Amarrians loose command ships, hacs, assault frigs and minmatar loose fleets of rifters and trashers. But after day is over minmatar have always more loses couse instead of investing to normal stuff they loose tons of ships which creates isk sink on their killboard. Because I'm a pretty crap PvPer, I gave the whole FW thing a good thinking as to how people like me could play relatively often and not lose so much isk that they would have to take long breaks to mission/mine/trade whatever to make up the losses (yes, I know all the hotshots make 1 billion isk an hour and I suck at that too, but whatever). I've been killed in rifters and I've been killed in a 35 million isk rupture. I can do that for a while but then I have to go and grind. So I'd rather fly cheap ships. As for Amarr being more organized, I sadly have to agree with that. The last time I lost my Rupture, it was NOT a BS gang, but rather drake/harby/fleet stabber/punisher and various tacklers. And they had a tackler on EVERY gate back to Minnie space and I was lucky that my pod warped to jump range every time. The Amarr intel is also far better as they almost always have alts up in Minnie fleet channels basically relaying everything that the Minnies do. So hat off to them. Doesn't mean I'll stop doing FW though. I think, in my somewhat ******ed way, that it's fun.
Jelosavich	Posted - 2009.10.08 00:30:00 - [148] Originally by: Insa Rexion Jebus guys, get over it, I don't think anyone "facts" are going to to tie up are they. How many each side had, how many logis they had yada yada yada. English. Please. Originally by: Insa Rexion Someone even tried to claim that the gallente were backing us up and they were not anywhere near this fight. Here is what was said. Originally by: Jelosavich As for numbers, as far as I was aware we were outgunned significantly by the minmatar/gallente (not sure if the gals were there, but we assumed they were because of the size of the enemy fleet) So... no.
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.10.08 06:26:00 - [149] I think the point i was trying to make is fairly clear from your own quote... you ASSUMED the gallente were there, you did not know and in fact they were not. This is a pretty good demonstration of how sketchy intel was at the time and how ppls recollections of the event differ. The reports coming to us while in fleet were that WE were outnumbered and we may or may not have been. This is why it's pointless to attempt to come away from this with some kind of moral high ground or accusations of blobbing. i don't think anyone knows who really had the upper hand, in truth, only an engagement would have revealed the answer to that question. So what's the point of all the ifs buts and maybes... none far as i can tell. Let's just look forward to the next time and hope we get to smash the crap out of each other, that's why we play this game after all.. see you on the field, I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.10.08 06:32:00 - [150] Originally by: Ocerdyn I'm not even in FW. I wasn't attempting to shift blame on why the fight didn't happen. I was saying, whomever had more logistics would have won. For every 1 competant logistics pilot, I'd feel safe to engage 5-10 additional contacts depending on ship types. So if the numbers were equal and one side had more logistics and they had a decent FC, then chances are, they would have won. Keep that in mind next time you guys are neck to neck in pilots. And maybe one side will actually engage. Sorry mate, thought you were a militia member QQing about logistics. Pls accept my apology :) I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
Noxford	Posted - 2009.10.09 11:37:00 - [151] Originally by: Insa Rexion Originally by: Ocerdyn I'm not even in FW. I wasn't attempting to shift blame on why the fight didn't happen. I was saying, whomever had more logistics would have won. For every 1 competant logistics pilot, I'd feel safe to engage 5-10 additional contacts depending on ship types. So if the numbers were equal and one side had more logistics and they had a decent FC, then chances are, they would have won. Keep that in mind next time you guys are neck to neck in pilots. And maybe one side will actually engage. Sorry mate, thought you were a militia member QQing about logistics. Pls accept my apology :) Oh, but I'm coming Insa. Sure as God's vengeance, I'm coming. My 0.0 friends and I are going to fix Minmatar. Whip them into shape. _____________________________ - Noxford Realtor Services -
Jelosavich	Posted - 2009.10.09 18:58:00 - [152] Originally by: Insa Rexion I think the point i was trying to make is fairly clear from your own quote... you ASSUMED the gallente were there, you did not know and in fact they were not. The point of the conversation was numbers only. The only reason the gallente come into it is that quote, and all it is saying is that you guys had a lot of numbers, as much as, or more than, our 2 fleets combined. Originally by: Noxford Oh, but I'm coming Insa. Sure as God's vengeance, I'm coming. My 0.0 friends and I are going to fix Minmatar. Whip them into shape. Good. I look forward to killing you on the battlefield!
Ocerdyn Apolitical	Posted - 2009.10.09 19:16:00 - [153] Originally by: Jelosavich Originally by: Noxford Oh, but I'm coming Insa. Sure as God's vengeance, I'm coming. My 0.0 friends and I are going to fix Minmatar. Whip them into shape. Good. I look forward to killing you on the battlefield! Good luck killing him.
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.10.10 06:23:00 - [154] Originally by: Noxford Originally by: Insa Rexion Originally by: Ocerdyn I'm not even in FW. I wasn't attempting to shift blame on why the fight didn't happen. I was saying, whomever had more logistics would have won. For every 1 competant logistics pilot, I'd feel safe to engage 5-10 additional contacts depending on ship types. So if the numbers were equal and one side had more logistics and they had a decent FC, then chances are, they would have won. Keep that in mind next time you guys are neck to neck in pilots. And maybe one side will actually engage. Sorry mate, thought you were a militia member QQing about logistics. Pls accept my apology :) Oh, but I'm coming Insa. Sure as God's vengeance, I'm coming. My 0.0 friends and I are going to fix Minmatar. Whip them into shape. see you soon then I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
The Yzzerman Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2009.10.12 17:10:00 - [155] And there goes the Hammer, the game have turned once again. Hail hoffa...

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