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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
950
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Posted - 2012.06.13 05:07:00 -
[121] - Quote
Dalilus wrote:alts of some nullsec alliances
this would be dismissed as tinfoil if it wasn't utterly true eh |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
239
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 05:29:00 -
[122] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:eidenjunior wrote:Can we get to see some stats about incursion, pre-inferno and post-inferno? Not sure I can give the exact numbers, but the use of Vanguards basically floored.
Interesting last march the numbers were available on March the 3rd for February: http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.html
yet are not available now mid June for May. The day that CCP 'fixes' stop sucking is the day they start fixing vaccum cleaners |
Xander Hunt
36
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 05:43:00 -
[123] - Quote
I started regularly doing incursions before the big nerf. i think I'd had been in them for about a month or so, maybe flown 5 or 6 times. Since then, I've heard the whine and bickering from both sides of the plate, those being from the bears and those from being the low/null runners. I NEVER see the low/null bars really dip at all, so really I don't see the reason low/null runners are bitching. THEY DON'T RUN THEM!
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1598459/EVE/currentincursion.png
Do I miss them money from before the nerf? Yes. Do I miss getting to know other capsuleers? Yes. Do I miss hearing the stories from the null runnners? Yes. Do I miss hearing the s??t people do out there? Hell yes. I also miss looking FORWARD to playing this game which costs me $500/year with different people outside of my corp, just for the basic socialization.
That all said, I'd like to propose a change where the fleet decides what kind of rewards they want to play for. Get rid of the payout system as it is, allow for blitzing, but put a bounty (For ISK and LP) on each downed ship based on the fleet who does the most damage to that ship, handed out when the final trigger is killed. So we can do an deltole, deltole, deltole kill, but get crap rewards for it, but it helps move the bar. Or, we stick around and beat the living hell outta all the opposing ships, but we get massive rewards. No enemy ship warps out mid-run. Get a final trigger ship to complete the "mission" and the player can decide to move on. This would also add an extra element of risk in case of warp scram, but the fleet would just have to get rid of the niarjas first.
My two ISK |
Dark Nephilium
Quiet.Storm
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 05:52:00 -
[124] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are listening to the feedback about OTA and we are taking it seriously but that is a change we will have to look at for a future expansion, not one we can squeeze in now. We also don't want to make any further changes right now, please read my previous post about small steps
Maybe next time you should try making a small change/nerf instead of taking out a big freaking nerf hammer and squashing the living crap out of stuff. Easier to fix small things then it is to unbreak something. Great job on taking all the fun out of something.
What did you guys think was going to happen when you not only nerfed the pay for VG, but tripled the time to make less isk, as well as cost us all 4 times as much in ammo? VG doesn't pay anymore which is why we stopped doing them. So you listened to the Assault/HQ side of the incursion community and nerfed the VG and we stopped running them. Result being yes they got more people for fleets but overall you only managed to make everything worse. It is obvious that did not work out well. All you had to do was increase the time it took to complete the VG sites and increase pay and LP for assault/HQ sites enough to encourage people to run them or made them easier to complete with fewer people. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
482
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 06:36:00 -
[125] - Quote
The biggest flaw with Incursions isn't just the amount of ISK they were producing, its that producing ISK is ALL they were good for. There was such talk of the 'incursion community' and how they enjoyed their challenging co-operative intelligent PvE but as soon as the ISK fountain was turned down that 'community' scattered to the four winds.
As a method of producing lasting bonds between individuals incursions haven't worked, instead we've seen an attitude of 'lets grind ISK with strangers then go our separate ways again'. That's the underlying issue here. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
71
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 06:51:00 -
[126] - Quote
I will give my opinion on your changes.
First, vanguard changes in terms of lack of triggers and randomized waves, as well as increased overall difficulty, including OTA were positive. However, payouts were reduced so much that only ten percent increase wont do.
Lets look at how much an elite fleet can make in vanguards. Maximum will be 8 sites per hour, with 8 DPS and 3 logi, including warp-in and warp-out, and maybe short time people from waitlist to arrive. Thats six minute OTA, so you have seven minute blinks on the neocom. However sites will sometimes take longer, yesterday it was only 61M/hr for me. And it requires vindicators and legions with best hardwires. Thats not a figure from imaginary Eve that spawns only one type of incursion site, and instantly teleports you to the gates, and where logi never take a bio, but how much you'll really earn.
On the other hand, HQ fleets shields run will make 60-70M ISK/hr completely on ez-mode with badly fitted Ravens in fleet. And HQ isnt harder than completing an OTA in six minutes, I assure you, as we maneuver with MWD so that blaster Vindis can apply the antimatter from close range to the spawns. In HQ you only need to press F1 repeatedly and broadcast for reps/capacitor. And HQ will generate more LP, which is valuable. Keep in mind average fleet will do an OTA in 30 minute, not in six. Now compare that to difficulty and reward of assault and HQ sites.
If that dont change, it will be impossible to recruit top talent to the fleets. With 15-20% increase, maybe.
Now you may ask, if those people want group PVE, they have them in assault/HQ fleets. And if they want only ISK, they have null anoms/L4 dualboxing/low level WHs for soloing.
Its not that easy. Incursions are about contest too, as in contest highest DPS fleet only receives the reward. And maybe bragging and smacktalking in local. Incursions were never pure PVE, but were always what would be named elsewhere "PvPVE" or something because sites could be contested. You could harvest genuine tears. However there are few elite communities now, only two I know, one for shield and other for armor.
If you want VGs to be "easy" and "entry-level" or whatever, consider this, 10-mans are easiest to get into in terms of manpower needed, and 20-man and 40-man dont necessary mean sites are harder in terms of player and character skill, but can only mean they take longer to organize.
Consider revamping scout sites to be entry-level, and if you make sites hard, make them worthwhile to do too.
And incursion communities in non-English languages that existed before the changes? Did any of them remain? Take into account capacity of such small community to organize 20 or 40 man raid.
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Kern Hotha
13
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Posted - 2012.06.13 07:39:00 -
[127] - Quote
What happened to Sansha Kuvakei? The guy looks like a nightmare now.
Oh, and no changes are needed for incursions. People whine but they still complete them and make isk. Middle age is when your broad mind and narrow waist begin to change places. -E. Joseph Cossman |
ISeeDeath
Cogs and Sprogs Starship Mechanics
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 07:47:00 -
[128] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:The biggest flaw with Incursions isn't just the amount of ISK they were producing, its that producing ISK is ALL they were good for. There was such talk of the 'incursion community' and how they enjoyed their challenging co-operative intelligent PvE but as soon as the ISK fountain was turned down that 'community' scattered to the four winds.
As a method of producing lasting bonds between individuals incursions haven't worked, instead we've seen an attitude of 'lets grind ISK with strangers then go our separate ways again'. That's the underlying issue here.
From my personal view and from a lot of friends i made during making incursions this statement could not be more wrong.
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Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
956
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 07:51:00 -
[129] - Quote
ISeeDeath wrote:From my personal view and from a lot of friends i made during making incursions this statement could not be more wrong.
What do you do in EVE with the friends you made running incursions?
Besides running incursions, of course eh |
Crellion
Parental Control
25
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 08:42:00 -
[130] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Borlag Crendraven wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:eidenjunior wrote:Can we get to see some stats about incursion, pre-inferno and post-inferno? Not sure I can give the exact numbers, but the use of Vanguards basically floored. And do you think that a 10% change to the profit will be enough to change this? Like said numerous times, the OTA wall is the issue. If it's the profits you wish to cut, just rollback every change and nerf incursion income by 50%, this essentially drops the profits down to just slightly above l4 missions and like seen before, there would be no single site type that everyone would avoid. Nope, we're reverting these two specific changes because they were a mistake. I never said they would change everything back to how it was, but looking at them in isolation I don't think they were beneficial to anyone and that's why they're being rolled back. If we need to make larger and more holistic changes that's fine, but our initial reaction is that we put something out that we're not happy with and we're taking it back.
Perhaps at this stage you want the opinion of someone ho has spent 2-3 hours doing incursions and left months ago to never return to it:
As an outsider I get their point and yours.
You are saying: We took back a mistake which must be seen as a positive step so why are you all whining?
They are saying: Thats great but your job is not to take "positive steps" but to fix the bleeping game pronto. If you find a little meaningless (positive) action to take and wave it as a "job well done" banner that will give you the excuse to not do anything further for another n months (reasonably lucid assesment) then you bet you popo we are going to whine!!!
There that's the two positions... I am leaning towards theirs but I remain undecided...
/me grabs popcorn
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Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
376
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 08:45:00 -
[131] - Quote
I don't think anyone would begrudge rollbacks on some of the low and Null Sec Incursion Nerfs, but risk free High Sec Incursions should be receiving more nerfs or better yet have Incursions removed entirely until such a time Incursions can be reintroduced in such a way that makes sense both in terms of lore and risk vs reward balance.
"Incursion community" is pure nonsense, it disappeared because most of them were just players bandwagoning onto the best risk/effort vs reward Isk making activity. The remainder are Themepark type PvE raiders who's gameplay needs are incompatible with a Sandbox PvP game such as EVE and should have been shown the door at the first opportunity. |
Mallak Azaria
203
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 11:11:00 -
[132] - Quote
Xander Hunt wrote:I started regularly doing incursions before the big nerf. i think I'd had been in them for about a month or so, maybe flown 5 or 6 times. Since then, I've heard the whine and bickering from both sides of the plate, those being from the bears and those from being the low/null runners. I NEVER see the low/null bars really dip at all, so really I don't see the reason low/null runners are bitching. THEY DON'T RUN THEM!
The problem was that Highsec incursion runners were making 1 bil per day in relative safety, when the low & nullsec incursion runners (Yes, they do exist) could not due to the inherent risk & ship fitting differences. They had to use vastly different fits using more ships, when the highsec runners could fit full pve pirate bling ships. As it was, running incursions in highsec all day was one of the most profitable ventures in the game. This should not be the case, ever.
No, I do not live in low or nullsec.
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J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
422
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 12:12:00 -
[133] - Quote
read: "I want my risk-free isk fountain back"[/quote]
Your incessant whining and crying about something you don't even do is soon to be on par with miners' tears. Amusing. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
422
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 12:15:00 -
[134] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:The biggest flaw with Incursions isn't just the amount of ISK they were producing, its that producing ISK is ALL they were good for. There was such talk of the 'incursion community' and how they enjoyed their challenging co-operative intelligent PvE but as soon as the ISK fountain was turned down that 'community' scattered to the four winds.
As a method of producing lasting bonds between individuals incursions haven't worked, instead we've seen an attitude of 'lets grind ISK with strangers then go our separate ways again'. That's the underlying issue here.
So incursion runners are expected to keep doing them even without earning a single isk? Do you live in North Korea?
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers Ignore This.
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 12:23:00 -
[135] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Cathrine Kenchov wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:So now you've destroyed the (already terrible) war dec system, you're following up with winding back high sec nerfs? Nice one CCP.
While I agree with the incursion bar changes, buffing isk reward in high sec is simply a quick fix. One that in the long run is just going to continue turning older players away from the game. Because that's the same dev team, right? Jesus you high sec people get bitter easy On the feedback side of things, thanks for still watching this ccp, though I do fear this may not be enough of a buff, especially when considering OTA's. And given the large nerf that was random triggers, I would have like to see an overall buff to payouts, instead of just vanguards. I think at the end of the day, we were unhappy with the way the changes turned out and now we're going to kill them. These are stopgaps though, we'll need to do some larger remodeling but that has to go on another timescale than "next week".
I think that incursions were and still have the potential to be one of the best pve features of EVE by far. The reason such a community was built up around them is because
a) They provided good isk so, over time, competant fc`s started to run them with thier mates in good ships ( = good isk)
b) They are realtivly fun, by this I mean there more engaging than missions and other things like that.
Add to the incursion system, make more gameplay elements its a solid foundation.
P.S If you nerf the isk down too much people will go back to doing other things, hence the community crumbles. Ignore This.-á "Were not elitists, were just tired of fail" - The Sorn |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1226
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 13:15:00 -
[136] - Quote
cBOLTSON wrote:The reason such a community was built up around them is because
a) They provided good isk so, over time, competant fc`s started to run them with thier mates in good ships ( = good isk)
b) They are realtivly fun, by this I mean there more engaging than missions and other things like that.
Add to the incursion system, make more gameplay elements its a solid foundation.
P.S If you nerf the isk down too much people will go back to doing other things, hence the community crumbles. The problem is that you are assuming the community was derived solely of mission runners, it was not.
While yes, incursions were marginally more engaging than missions, would you argue that they were more "community driven" than null sec or wormholes? Because a very large number of the players in incursions were null sec or wormhole players.
The "community" wasn't something new, it was taking players from other communities in the game for an activity that was arguably less involved. Albeit considerably better paying.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Dark Nephilium
Quiet.Storm
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 14:15:00 -
[137] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:The biggest flaw with Incursions isn't just the amount of ISK they were producing, its that producing ISK is ALL they were good for. There was such talk of the 'incursion community' and how they enjoyed their challenging co-operative intelligent PvE but as soon as the ISK fountain was turned down that 'community' scattered to the four winds.
As a method of producing lasting bonds between individuals incursions haven't worked, instead we've seen an attitude of 'lets grind ISK with strangers then go our separate ways again'. That's the underlying issue here.
WE talked, joked and laughed, trolled each other and other fleets, and oh yeah made some isk while we were doing it. Most of that isk went to the PVP alts in various alliances and pirate corps in null/low. So when you null tards start whining about hi sec carebears making risk free isk you have no idea what your talking about. The communities stopped because some/most people just did not want to do assaults/hq and enjoyed the fast pace of the VG and the contest instead. Take the fun out of anything and see how long people will stay. The current state of Incursions is proof of that. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1226
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 14:19:00 -
[138] - Quote
Dark Nephilium wrote:WE talked, joked and laughed, trolled each other and other fleets, and oh yeah made some isk while we were doing it. Most of that isk went to the PVP alts in various alliances and pirate corps in null/low. So when you null tards start whining about hi sec carebears making risk free isk you have no idea what your talking about. The communities stopped because some/most people just did not want to do assaults/hq and enjoyed the fast pace of the VG and the contest instead. Take the fun out of anything and see how long people will stay. The current state of Incursions is proof of that. This is the definition of theme park gameplay.
Bravo for posing a brilliant argument as to why high sec incursions were bad pre-escalation.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers Ignore This.
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 14:20:00 -
[139] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:cBOLTSON wrote:The reason such a community was built up around them is because
a) They provided good isk so, over time, competant fc`s started to run them with thier mates in good ships ( = good isk)
b) They are realtivly fun, by this I mean there more engaging than missions and other things like that.
Add to the incursion system, make more gameplay elements its a solid foundation.
P.S If you nerf the isk down too much people will go back to doing other things, hence the community crumbles. The problem is that you are assuming the community was derived solely of mission runners, it was not. While yes, incursions were marginally more engaging than missions, would you argue that they were more "community driven" than null sec or wormholes? Because a very large number of the players in incursions were null sec or wormhole players. The "community" wasn't something new, it was taking players from other communities in the game for an activity that was arguably less involved. Albeit considerably better paying.
This is very true, a large portion of incursion runners I ran with were either pvp chars or obvious nullsec alts.
No i wouldnt say they are at all, its the big nullsec battles, the things individual corporations and even a single man can do in the game that really drive the story. Incursions were more like a mutual benifactor for everyone involved. A lot of times i saw 0.0 enemies together in the same incursion fleet.
Yes I also totally agree with you about the community, hence why when incursions droped out of favour, mass portions of the so called 'incursion community' went back to what ever they did before.
I for one would personally love it if it was the members collecting resources for thier corp / alliance. Similar to how resources are gathered in a RTS. Ive allways seen eve more as a real time strategy game than a space combat sim. Obviously has elemnts of both. Incursions were at least something half decent to do pve wise.
Ignore This.-á "Were not elitists, were just tired of fail" - The Sorn |
Dark Nephilium
Quiet.Storm
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 14:48:00 -
[140] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Dark Nephilium wrote:WE talked, joked and laughed, trolled each other and other fleets, and oh yeah made some isk while we were doing it. Most of that isk went to the PVP alts in various alliances and pirate corps in null/low. So when you null tards start whining about hi sec carebears making risk free isk you have no idea what your talking about. The communities stopped because some/most people just did not want to do assaults/hq and enjoyed the fast pace of the VG and the contest instead. Take the fun out of anything and see how long people will stay. The current state of Incursions is proof of that. This is the definition of theme park gameplay. Bravo for posing a brilliant argument as to why high sec incursions were bad pre-escalation.
I did say in my previous post that yes changes needed to be made. My argument is that they went WAAAYYY to far and need to roll it back and START OVER. What they are proposing as a fix now is just stupid and won't work.
Also this is a GAME and it is supposed to be FUN. |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
715
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Posted - 2012.06.13 15:08:00 -
[141] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:mumkill3r wrote:Something needs to change to make them worth doing again. Come on give me a reason to dust off the Vindy and make some serious isk. read: "I want my risk-free isk fountain back"
Incursions cannot be risk free because to do them you got to undock. Anytime you undock you are at risk. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC Vanguard.
83
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 15:38:00 -
[142] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are listening to the feedback about OTA and we are taking it seriously but that is a change we will have to look at for a future expansion, not one we can squeeze in now. We also don't want to make any further changes right now, please read my previous post about small steps
Well until you fix OTAs your changes will mean virtually nothing. I use to run Vanguard sites alot. The day after the nerf I tried to run an OTA 3 hours later we finished the 3rd site. I never went back to vanguards. I trained half my corp on how to run vanguards and then the nerf and no one ever ran a vanguard site again after I explained about the new OTA setup. It's just not worth the effort and frustration. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
239
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 15:47:00 -
[143] - Quote
Krystyn wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are listening to the feedback about OTA and we are taking it seriously but that is a change we will have to look at for a future expansion, not one we can squeeze in now. We also don't want to make any further changes right now, please read my previous post about small steps Well until you fix OTAs you changes will mean virtually nothing. I use to run Vanguard sites alot. The day after the nerf I tried to run an OTA 3 hours later we finished the 3rd site. I never went back to vanguards. I trained half my corp on how to run vanguards and then the nerf and no one ever ran a vanguard site again after I explained about the new OTA setup.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM PLEASE LISTEN TO THE FEEDBACK OF PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY RUN INCURSIONS CCP DEVs!!! Its not the ISK of the Individual sites. The inluence bar is a secondary problem AFTER the OTA's can finally be tackled by less then shiney fleets but the 2 'rollbacks' you are proposing are NOT going to change the reason why Vanguards have FLOORED.
( NULL/lo SEC just cannot field the shiney ships required for OTA's due to the risk ) The day that CCP 'fixes' stop sucking is the day they start fixing vaccum cleaners |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1227
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 15:49:00 -
[144] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:mumkill3r wrote:Something needs to change to make them worth doing again. Come on give me a reason to dust off the Vindy and make some serious isk. read: "I want my risk-free isk fountain back" Incursions cannot be risk free because to do them you got to undock. Anytime you undock you are at risk. In practical terms there is little difference between "risk-free" and "oh my god, there is a 0.2% chance of me losing my ship before I make back ten times it's value".
cBOLTSON wrote:This is very true, a large portion of incursion runners I ran with were either pvp chars or obvious nullsec alts.
No i wouldnt say they are at all, its the big nullsec battles, the things individual corporations and even a single man can do in the game that really drive the story. Incursions were more like a mutual benifactor for everyone involved. A lot of times i saw 0.0 enemies together in the same incursion fleet.
Yes I also totally agree with you about the community, hence why when incursions droped out of favour, mass portions of the so called 'incursion community' went back to what ever they did before.
I for one would personally love it if it was the members collecting resources for thier corp / alliance. Similar to how resources are gathered in a RTS. Ive allways seen eve more as a real time strategy game than a space combat sim. Obviously has elemnts of both. Incursions were at least something half decent to do pve wise. I would love it if incursions gathered some kind of resource, although it is obviously too late in the design stage to make such a major change to their mechanics. I would also have liked them to be designed especially for the security space that they are in, as I pointed out earlier in the thread:
Simi Kusoni wrote:Missions: Different missions available dependent on system security. Exploration: Different sites available dependent on system security. Anomalies: Different sites available dependent on system security. Belt Ratting: Different NPCs available dependent on system security.
Incursions: Identical across all security regions with a nominal alteration in payout. This has always struck me as one of the major flaws with incursions, they are largely uniform across all security brackets, and as a result do not feel quite at home in any of them.
If CCP had designed incursions with differences dependent on system security, then it may have granted the designers freedom to balance and specialise the incursions themselves to better suit play styles for each area of the game. As it stands uniform changes to null, low and high sec incursions may be "right" for one location but will completely kill activity in others.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC Vanguard.
83
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 15:50:00 -
[145] - Quote
cBOLTSON wrote:[quote=Simi Kusoni]
This is very true, a large portion of incursion runners I ran with were either pvp chars or obvious nullsec alts.
No i wouldnt say they are at all, its the big nullsec battles, the things individual corporations and even a single man can do in the game that really drive the story. Incursions were more like a mutual benifactor for everyone involved. A lot of times i saw 0.0 enemies together in the same incursion fleet.
Yes I also totally agree with you about the community, hence why when incursions droped out of favour, mass portions of the so called 'incursion community' went back to what ever they did before.
I for one would personally love it if it was the members collecting resources for thier corp / alliance. Similar to how resources are gathered in a RTS. Ive allways seen eve more as a real time strategy game than a space combat sim. Obviously has elemnts of both. Incursions were at least something half decent to do pve wise.
I remember fleeting up with Reds on several occasions. Even someone I had killed recently. He told me in fleet chat he was looking forward to a rematch and was planning on using the incursion funds to pay for ships to do it in. I was doing the same thing saving up isk to buy stuff to support my null sec agenda(CAPs and a POS and POCOs and new drakes to get blown up in)
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Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1227
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Posted - 2012.06.13 16:03:00 -
[146] - Quote
Krystyn wrote:I remember fleeting up with Reds on several occasions. Even someone I had killed recently. He told me in fleet chat he was looking forward to a rematch and was planning on using the incursion funds to pay for ships to do it in. I was doing the same thing saving up isk to buy stuff to support my null sec agenda(CAPs and a POS and POCOs and new drakes to get blown up in)
ITT: People who believe theme park PvE is a good thing.
DarthNefarius wrote:THIS IS THE PROBLEM PLEASE LISTEN TO THE FEEDBACK OF PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY RUN INCURSIONS CCP DEVs!!! Its not the ISK of the Individual sites. The inluence bar is a secondary problem AFTER the OTA's can finally be tackled by less then shiney fleets but the 2 'rollbacks' you are proposing are NOT going to change the reason why Vanguards have FLOORED.
( NULL/lo SEC just cannot field the shiney ships required for OTA's due to the risk ) Caps lock: Guaranteed to make you sound 20% less like an angry child.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
ReiAnn
Nova-Tek
15
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Posted - 2012.06.13 17:00:00 -
[147] - Quote
I have to agree with the posts about the changes not being what the incursions really needed. As it is, unless you have a decent corp with a lot of active members with shiny ships, generally, the random player has a hard time getting into fleets. at least in my experience. Everyone wants you to use a certain fit or a particular ship. These min/maxing power gamer styles are ok when you are playing WoW or some other mmo that doesn't require a lot of time and isk spent in game. However, many people have to spend a LOT of time in game to get them in EVE, so they aren't just going to throw their shiny billions of isk ship into a group they may not know or be able to trust.
As far as high sec/null sec argument goes, you went to null sec all on your own. No one made you go. Security is based on the alliance in control. If you don't feel safe in a large incursion fleet, you need to rethink your fleet make-up, current alliance, or move to null sec. People in high sec give up quite a bit to stay there (poor pi, lower bounties, less lucretive exploration complexes, etc). I'm so sick of having to deal with the name calling crap from a bunch of adults. This game is turning away from the co-op gameplay to who can get who to quit the game faster.
Incursions are the basic PVE instance. A bad npc is here to wreck you and your enemies a like. It may not feel like it with the current game mechanics, but it's what the story boils down too. Who would you prefer to crush your enemies. You or some npc? Team up, get the job done, and get back to making war. |
Fearless M0F0
Incursion PWNAGE Asc
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 17:02:00 -
[148] - Quote
Here is an idea that you might be able to squeeze:
Instead of 10% increase payout to Vanguards, just increase OTAs by let's say 50% and/or tweak they curve so a 15 pilot fleet gets full payout (they are almost as hard and take as long as assaults right now). Now, this would just be just a temporary stopgap until you can rebalance them.
The idea is to make OTAs at the very least worth the grind. This change along the influence one could inject new life to all incursions short term and should be pretty easy to implement i guess, right?
As far as long term, you could make payouts dynamic based on number of sites/hr completed so incursions sites left untouched slowly increase their payout while blitzing fleets get paid a little less for each site they complete.
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Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1227
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 17:08:00 -
[149] - Quote
Fearless M0F0 wrote:Here is an idea that you might be able to squeeze: Instead of 10% increase payout to Vanguards, just increase OTAs by let's say 50% and/or tweak they curve so a 15 pilot fleet gets full payout (they are almost as hard and take as long as assaults right now). Now, this would just be just a temporary stopgap until you can rebalance them. The idea is to make OTAs at the very least worth the grind. This change along the influence one could inject new life to all incursions short term and should be pretty easy to implement i guess, right? As far as long term, you could make payouts dynamic based on number of sites/hr completed so incursions sites left untouched slowly increase their payout while blitzing fleets get paid a little less for each site they complete. You have to laugh at times when you see players claiming the issue isn't with ISK, but with OTAs not being "fun".
The solution? Increase the payout of OTAs.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Fearless M0F0
Incursion PWNAGE Asc
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 17:34:00 -
[150] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote: You have to laugh at times when you see players claiming the issue isn't with ISK, but with OTAs not being "fun".
The solution? Increase the payout of OTAs.
You missed the "and/or adjust the curve to allow more players" part. The idea is to either make them less of a grind or pay more so fleets are easier to form.
Also, I'm not asking this only for highsec, such a change might bring null/low incursions back to life.
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