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Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.02 07:11:00 - [1] Why don't you just shoot the wrecks? Something I'll never understand really. Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
Ivanna Nuke Daralux	Posted - 2009.11.02 07:44:00 - [2] Because a fairy panda from the coconut plains of the gingerbread people will come and eat your ship.
Tanith YarnDemon	Posted - 2009.11.02 08:38:00 - [3] Because shooting the wrecks means I spend weapon cycles on something to me completely irrelevant. It's not like either of us is going to make more isk by me shooting my own wrecks, were both just going to make less. I very rarely get any ninja salvagers, when I do either ignore them or salvage the crap myself.
Tian Nu	Posted - 2009.11.02 08:56:00 - [4] I started in 2005 and kind weird the first ninja I saw was like 3 days ago. I told him I donÆt loot and salvage so he can go on but for some weird reason he never came back What ever you do don't shoot at them.
Some Advisor	Posted - 2009.11.02 08:56:00 - [5] The "ninjasalvager" in our Wormhole neighborsystem usually die pretty fast, no problem there :) (even less work, too)
Gandoral	Posted - 2009.11.02 09:09:00 - [6] i playe EVE since 2005 and never saw any Ninja-salvager. Only some ninjalooter in some mining belts. Didn't last long enough to have fun with his robbed minerals ;) Very helpfull is missionrunning by 2 ppl. One is the fighter the other the salvager.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.11.02 09:44:00 - [7] Because I don't get ninja'd. …and because it's not that big a deal. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.02 09:56:00 - [8] to get ninja'd goto motsu aunia dodixie amarr rens hek any hub and run lv 3-4 missiona and wait Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.11.02 10:08:00 - [9] Originally by: HeliosGal to get ninja'd goto motsu aunia dodixie amarr rens hek any hub and run lv 3-4 missiona and wait I did (well, didn't try Rens and Hek). It didn't work. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Samuel Mason	Posted - 2009.11.02 19:04:00 - [10] One day I decided to ninja salvage, this guy in a drake shot me and got destroyed by concord... I felt so bad I quit ninja salvaging.

Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.02 19:46:00 - [11] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: HeliosGal to get ninja'd goto motsu aunia dodixie amarr rens hek any hub and run lv 3-4 missiona and wait I did (well, didn't try Rens and Hek). It didn't work. Ninja salvager spawns are very random, sometimes you have to wait for a very long time.
Jekyl Eraser	Posted - 2009.11.02 20:39:00 - [12] Originally by: Dibsi Dei Originally by: Tippia Originally by: HeliosGal to get ninja'd goto motsu aunia dodixie amarr rens hek any hub and run lv 3-4 missiona and wait I did (well, didn't try Rens and Hek). It didn't work. Ninja salvager spawns are very random, sometimes you have to wait for a very long time. But they drop some imba loot so it's worth the wait
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.11.02 20:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Dibsi Dei Ninja salvager spawns are very random, sometimes you have to wait for a very long time. /thread
M0rkar Amarr Universal Mayhem	Posted - 2009.11.03 01:00:00 - [14] because i dont care since i do not loot nor salvage most of the time, they would have much less trouble simply asking if they can loot/salvage my missions so they would not have to spent time scanning stupid people
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.03 01:18:00 - [15] I blew the last one up, and he never came back... so I waited months, someone warps into my blockade just as I hit a trigger and takes all the agg, and he never came back either :(. OP: waste of time and ammo?
Joe Starbreaker The Fighting Republicans	Posted - 2009.11.03 01:37:00 - [16] As a sometimes ninja, I can confirm that when the mission runner blows up the wrecks, it is very pleasing to the ninja. Because that is the action of a sad, butthurt mission runner. I will often stay to the end and force the runner to shoot every single wreck. If you really want to defeat the ninja, ignore him. ... The Fighting Republicans now recruiting for a 2010 comeback campaign!
Ata Girl	Posted - 2009.11.03 02:17:00 - [17] Edited by: Ata Girl on 03/11/2009 02:17:24 a guy in a golem was shooting wrecks with faction torps or somethin like that. I did follow him 5 systems away just to see if he would do it again. he did :)
Chienka Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.03 05:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Sader Rykane When your getting Ninja salvaged. When are you people going to realize they're not your wrecks? Need space? Atlas Rentals can help!
Drakarin Gallente The Abyssmal Spire Independent Faction	Posted - 2009.11.03 05:33:00 - [19] Originally by: Chienka Originally by: Sader Rykane When your getting Ninja salvaged. When are you people going to realize they're not your wrecks? AHEM They only exist because I destroyed them. They are a resource I created. They are EXACTLY the same thing as loot, merely requiring a skill to obtain it (which makes it even closer to being like mining, a real profession). If you can't steal loot, you shouldn't be able to steal salvage. End of story. Either get credible by making the loot itself not property of the destroyer, or do the opposite and make wrecks belong to the guy who created them. I mean seriously, if the loot on the wreck belongs to me, the salvage does too. Because salvage is loot too.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.11.03 07:01:00 - [20] Originally by: Drakarin They only exist because I destroyed them. Irrelevant. They aren't yours anyway. For destroying the ships, you are rewarded with bounties and loot. Salvage is not part of the package. Quote: They are a resource I created. They are EXACTLY the same thing as loot, merely requiring a skill to obtain it (which makes it even closer to being like mining, a real profession). Loot is created by activating a weapon on a ship — you need a weapon skill to do this. Salvage is created by activating a salvager on a wreck — you need a salvaging skill to do this. So yes, in that respect, salvage is exactly like loot: you have to earn it by creating it. Notice, however, that shooting a ship does not create salvage — salvaging does. Therefore, if you're not the one who activates the salvager, the salvage isn't yours because you haven't earned it. Quote: If you can't steal loot, you shouldn't be able to steal salvage. You can steal salvage the exact same way you steal loot: by taking it out of someone else's can, or by taking it from their smouldering remains. If you don't want your salvage stolen, you shouldn't jettison it to begin with. Quote: I mean seriously, if the loot on the wreck belongs to me, the salvage does too. Because salvage is loot too. No. Salvage is salvage, loot is loot. How can this be so hard to understand? You didn't work for the salvage so you didn't earn it so it isn't yours. Very simple. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki

Srialia Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.11.03 07:43:00 - [21] Edited by: Srialia on 03/11/2009 07:43:22 Originally by: Drakarin I mean seriously, if the loot on the wreck belongs to me, the salvage does too. Because salvage is loot too. This is the way you want it to be. This is the way it is: The salvage is not loot, it is salvage. It does not belong to you until you salvage it. If somebody else salvages it, it belongs to them. I'll go a step further and say that not even the loot from wrecks belongs to you until it is in your cargo hold. If I get it into my hold and get away before you loot it, it belongs to me, and suddenly nothing belongs to you but 15 minutes of kill rights (and for you, it seems, a throbbing vein in your forehead). This is the wrong game for you if you're looking for guarantees.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.03 09:17:00 - [22] I have yet to be ninjaed. I do more money by not looting and salvaging but I usually do that because I hate not to clean up. So if a ninja would show up he'd probably increase my income by cleaning what I'd "have to" loot myself due to my pack rat mentality. On the other side, a corp mate teached me how to ninja (all of it, from probing to PVP tricks) and... I got bored in about 10 minutes and never tried it again. I mean, what's more boring than killing 50 Angels and looting + salvaging them? Only looting and salvaging them! - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Srialia Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.11.03 10:27:00 - [23] Vaerah, it's only boring until they start flinging impotent rage and frustration at you. Once that happens, you never want to stop. At least, that's how it happened for me ^_^
Nonnosa Amarr	Posted - 2009.11.03 10:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Sader Rykane Why don't you just shoot the wrecks? Something I'll never understand really. Another idea is to see if the ninja would be willing to pay a ransom for you not to shoot the wrecks. What would a 'fair' price for each wreck be?
Zanaraxtarus Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.03 12:06:00 - [25] Originally by: Nonnosa Originally by: Sader Rykane Why don't you just shoot the wrecks? Something I'll never understand really. Another idea is to see if the ninja would be willing to pay a ransom for you not to shoot the wrecks. What would a 'fair' price for each wreck be? How about 5 whiny carebear tears PER wreck... Seeing as how we usually get at least 10 per wreck, this would both save you carebears some work crying and save us from having to loot/salvage EVERY SINGLE wreck to get all those tears... --Zan--
Riedle Minmatar Raptus Regalitor	Posted - 2009.11.03 13:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Drakarin They only exist because I destroyed them. Irrelevant. They aren't yours anyway. For destroying the ships, you are rewarded with bounties and loot. Salvage is not part of the package. Quote: They are a resource I created. They are EXACTLY the same thing as loot, merely requiring a skill to obtain it (which makes it even closer to being like mining, a real profession). Loot is created by activating a weapon on a ship ù you need a weapon skill to do this. Salvage is created by activating a salvager on a wreck ù you need a salvaging skill to do this. So yes, in that respect, salvage is exactly like loot: you have to earn it by creating it. Notice, however, that shooting a ship does not create salvage ù salvaging does. Therefore, if you're not the one who activates the salvager, the salvage isn't yours because you haven't earned it. Quote: If you can't steal loot, you shouldn't be able to steal salvage. You can steal salvage the exact same way you steal loot: by taking it out of someone else's can, or by taking it from their smouldering remains. If you don't want your salvage stolen, you shouldn't jettison it to begin with. Quote: I mean seriously, if the loot on the wreck belongs to me, the salvage does too. Because salvage is loot too. No. Salvage is salvage, loot is loot. How can this be so hard to understand? You didn't work for the salvage so you didn't earn it so it isn't yours. Very simple. +3 Internetz to you!
Ata Girl	Posted - 2009.11.03 13:39:00 - [27] Originally by: Nonnosa Originally by: Sader Rykane Why don't you just shoot the wrecks? Something I'll never understand really. Another idea is to see if the ninja would be willing to pay a ransom for you not to shoot the wrecks. What would a 'fair' price for each wreck be? brilliant! Didn't think about that one. Have to fit a gun thou... Could be quite fun. Missionner shots the wrecks so you don't get them, and you shot wrecks too because he didn't pay
Vigo Larcen Dark Claw Raiders	Posted - 2009.11.03 16:24:00 - [28] Originally by: Ivanna Nuke Because a fairy panda from the coconut plains of the gingerbread people will come and eat your ship. That's not funny. My CNR died that way. But yeah, I agree. Shoot the wrecks. Especially when you're using faction torps. That really shows those pesky ninjas who's the boss!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.11.03 17:29:00 - [29] Originally by: Sader Rykane Why don't you just shoot the wrecks? Something I'll never understand really. because I wasn't planning on looting or salvaging them anyways?
N00byn00blar	Posted - 2009.11.03 18:07:00 - [30] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker As a sometimes ninja, I can confirm that when the mission runner blows up the wrecks, it is very pleasing to the ninja. Because that is the action of a sad, butthurt mission runner. I will often stay to the end and force the runner to shoot every single wreck. If you really want to defeat the ninja, ignore him. As I suspected, but straight from the horses mouth. It's basically just a method for griefing/ass-hattery, not a profession as such. The soul point is to annoy/irritate with the fatade of "it's just internet pixels". Very goon imho.

Jessica Fyers Gallente Azure Horizon	Posted - 2009.11.03 18:41:00 - [31] I have only been 'visited' in a mission once in Aunia; tho it was just a guy trying to bait me into attacking him so his mates (which btw warped in anyway), could pop my Golem. Epic Fail on thier part. The interesting thing is. oftentimes i dont bother with salvaging, and offer ppl the chance to come pick salvage and loot, or just salvage if they think i'll exercise killrights for agro... none accepts! Shooting wrecks is lame, i'd have done another mission by the time i popped the last one - besides, when i actually want to salvage, i hop in a marauder. Oh and for heaven's sake: CCP's position has been made clear as day; wrecks belong to the one to reach/salvage them first, not the one who popped the npc!!!! ---------------------------------------------- Some people say you should fight fire with fire... Nonsense of course; you should fight everything with fire!
Domoso	Posted - 2009.11.03 23:40:00 - [32] Shoot the wrecks, don't shoot the wrecks. It makes little difference. A good salvager has more than one mission site scoped out.
Takh Meir'noen Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.11.03 23:47:00 - [33] Edited by: Takh Meir''noen on 03/11/2009 23:48:34 I can never tell what people mean when they say they got ninja'd anyway. Ninja-LOOT-ing is stealing--and you get flagged accordingly. Ninja-SALVAGE-ing is not stealing--not anymore than mining the same asteroid as someone else. That's a fact, because you get flagged for stealing, and neither salvaging, or mining an asteroid flags you. When I'm out and about in my salvager, I advise Local that I'm prospecting for salvage, and if anyone wants to invite me I'll just salvage their wrecks. But I also give warning that if I find wrecks I'm going to salvage them--I'm trying to make a living. I'm not there to loot, and I'm not trying to get kill-rights on carebears. But if you see my interceptor pop into your deadspace, feel free to shoot your wrecks, it's your right. I wasn't going to touch the loot and stated as much, but I have every intention of salvaging every last one of them, no different than if we entered the same asteroid field in hi-sec in miners. The only person I've really seen get upset was this guy in a Hyperion that kept recalling his drones and warping out of the mission to transfer aggro to me. I would just turn on my cloak and wait for him to come back, then resume. The third time he screwed up and warped without his drones and got mad at ME. Sheesh. (I also offer 10% of my take when tagging along with someone.)
SCGhozt	Posted - 2009.11.04 01:14:00 - [34] u guys know what there is nothing that **es me off more then ninja salvaging. i dont hate the ninjas really even though i think if u are one u are a a hole. but ccp has just been very lazy to fix that bug, thats right a bug. so they are not my wrecks people say? then try and shoot them yourself? heck eve if u are grouped together with another player u cant shoot his wrecks. no matter how much u complain ccp will not fix this so bleh i'm just wasting time typing.....
Dacryphile	Posted - 2009.11.04 02:24:00 - [35] Originally by: SCGhozt u guys know what there is nothing that **es me off more then ninja salvaging. i dont hate the ninjas really even though i think if u are one u are a a hole. but ccp has just been very lazy to fix that bug, thats right a bug. so they are not my wrecks people say? then try and shoot them yourself? heck eve if u are grouped together with another player u cant shoot his wrecks. no matter how much u complain ccp will not fix this so bleh i'm just wasting time typing..... Its posts like this that make ninja salvaging worth it. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
SCGhozt	Posted - 2009.11.04 02:31:00 - [36] Originally by: Dacryphile Originally by: SCGhozt u guys know what there is nothing that **es me off more then ninja salvaging. i dont hate the ninjas really even though i think if u are one u are a a hole. but ccp has just been very lazy to fix that bug, thats right a bug. so they are not my wrecks people say? then try and shoot them yourself? heck eve if u are grouped together with another player u cant shoot his wrecks. no matter how much u complain ccp will not fix this so bleh i'm just wasting time typing..... Its posts like this that make ninja salvaging worth it. not really, i tried it out myself and i didnt find it fun a torn in the rear for someone else. now if u are that type of person by nature i can see how it fits to some people.
Platte Okeefe Gallente Terminus Traders COOP	Posted - 2009.11.04 05:12:00 - [37] Edited by: Platte Okeefe on 04/11/2009 05:13:19 Originally by: Drakarin AHEM They only exist because I destroyed them. They are a resource I created. They are EXACTLY the same thing as loot, merely requiring a skill to obtain it (which makes it even closer to being like mining, a real profession). If you can't steal loot, you shouldn't be able to steal salvage. End of story. Either get credible by making the loot itself not property of the destroyer, or do the opposite and make wrecks belong to the guy who created them. I mean seriously, if the loot on the wreck belongs to me, the salvage does too. Because salvage is loot too. Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) If this causes you to rage quit, can I have your stuff?
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.11.04 10:31:00 - [38] If Im going to be losing money I want to be the person at fault, even if its at my own idiocy. Dont make me blame you for losing my isk, Im not a happy fox if that happens. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 11OCT09
Domoso	Posted - 2009.11.04 11:55:00 - [39] Edited by: Domoso on 04/11/2009 11:56:32 Originally by: SCGhozt u guys know what there is nothing that **es me off more then ninja salvaging. i dont hate the ninjas really even though i think if u are one u are a a hole. but ccp has just been very lazy to fix that bug, thats right a bug. so they are not my wrecks people say? then try and shoot them yourself? heck eve if u are grouped together with another player u cant shoot his wrecks. no matter how much u complain ccp will not fix this so bleh i'm just wasting time typing..... Unfortunately, it's not a "bug" in the sense of an unintended game dynamic. CCP has taken the stance that ninja salvaging is intended. Personally, I think it should be changed as well. I started ninjaing because my missions were being ninja'd. At my current skill level it can take several hours to clear a big l4 mission. It's disappointing to lose salvage income as a missioner in this way. So until my skills increase I ninja. Given CCP's "solutions" to other "problems" in the past I believe their stance on ninja salvaging is a reluctance change the dynamics concerning wrecks and what is public/private. It's an old mechanic's trick that when something is not really an issue for the mechanic but an issue for the customer to imply that something is an intended consequence when it might be difficult to repair. shrugs I could be wrong.
Platte Okeefe Gallente Terminus Traders COOP	Posted - 2009.11.04 12:27:00 - [40] Originally by: Domoso shrugs I could be wrong. You are Salvaging is intended to be a mini profession within EVE. Just get over it or rage quit and give me your stuff

Domoso	Posted - 2009.11.04 16:30:00 - [41] Originally by: Platte Okeefe Originally by: Domoso shrugs I could be wrong. You are How can you be sure? Do you believe without question everything you're told? I've got a jumpbridge to sell you. I only require that you make half payment up front of 1bil isk as a downpayment.
Burnharder	Posted - 2009.11.04 17:08:00 - [42] Originally by: Platte Okeefe Originally by: Domoso shrugs I could be wrong. You are Salvaging is intended to be a mini profession within EVE. Just get over it or rage quit and give me your stuff Oh pleeease. I work in software. You have no idea how many "intended features" reach the customers that weren't in the design .
Riedle Minmatar Raptus Regalitor	Posted - 2009.11.04 18:48:00 - [43] Originally by: Jessica Fyers I have only been 'visited' in a mission once in Aunia; tho it was just a guy trying to bait me into attacking him so his mates (which btw warped in anyway), could pop my Golem. Epic Fail on thier part.!!!! You should have shot him because if his mates then shot you they would have been concorded. His corp does not get agro from you shooting a thief. You could have brought your corpmates in however and all gang ****d the thief. Really, I know you are not complaining here, but all the advantages are already in the MR's favour. What else could they possibly want besides an easy button from Staples? HTFU
Solomar Espersei Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.04 19:48:00 - [44] Originally by: Takh Meir'noen ...When I'm out and about in my salvager, I advise Local that I'm prospecting for salvage, and if anyone wants to invite me I'll just salvage their wrecks. But I also give warning that if I find wrecks I'm going to salvage them--I'm trying to make a living. I'm not there to loot, and I'm not trying to get kill-rights on carebears. But if you see my interceptor pop into your deadspace, feel free to shoot your wrecks, it's your right. I wasn't going to touch the loot and stated as much, but I have every intention of salvaging every last one of them, no different than if we entered the same asteroid field in hi-sec in miners. The only person I've really seen get upset was this guy in a Hyperion that kept recalling his drones and warping out of the mission to transfer aggro to me. I would just turn on my cloak and wait for him to come back, then resume. The third time he screwed up and warped without his drones and got mad at ME. Sheesh. (I also offer 10% of my take when tagging along with someone.) That seems like a reasonable idea, after all, while the lion is feeding, the other gazelle can run free. All it would take is one mission runner in a good Sansha, Blood, or Angels mission to keep all the other Care Bears snug and safe for an hour or more. I may try that sometime. I'm shocked that you ninja salvage in an Inty, but I'd say it really has its moments. Hope you got it insured.
Zellinator	Posted - 2009.11.04 19:59:00 - [45] This reminds me of a audio/video I saw online about a guy that was mining in low sec and got popped. He btched and complained about it like it wasn't his fault. This is the exact same, CCP designed this aspect of the game for a reason. Just like every other aspect of the game is made a certain way. We may not agree with it but we do have to deal with it. Complaining definately won't get rid of Ninjas, it will probably just motivate them. I've been ninja'd 11 times. Been keeping count. The first few times I was ***ed. My fleet mate fired on the guy one time. He came back in his Domi with a Falcon close behind. Could have been ugly but timer expired. I've had to deal with them alot and.... I do have a few suggestions: -Equip a TB and Salvager to your mission running ship. Either you do the mission slower and keep all the spoils, or leave it till later and possibly loose the opportunity. -Move to a system where ninjas aren't as active, it will lessen the chances of you getting jacked. -Have a civilized conversation with the Ninja, see if you can sweet talk them into sharing, kindness goes a long way. -My favorite solution out of all of them is to just stop the mission and do it later, or do a different agent. Simply put... Remove the opportunity for the Ninja, if there's no wrecks then there's no problem. Last time a ninja showed up I killed remaining wave and salvaged what I could then came back and finished later. Worked like a charm. Ninjas are here to stay, if you can't beat them then join them... That's what I did! Haha been rolling in the ISK ever since.
Srialia Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:08:00 - [46] Originally by: Riedle Really, I know you are not complaining here, but all the advantages are already in the MR's favour. What else could they possibly want besides an easy button from Staples? In theory, you are correct. In reality, most of those advantages are thrown out the window because of an unwillingness on the part of the MR to learn the rules of the game (eg. kill rights / aggro mechanics). A knowledgeable mission runner is probably my worst enemy, because 1) I can't trick him into anything that will let me kill his ship, 2) He knows that he can probably make more ISK/hour by ignoring salvage anyway and 3) He knows a lot of us do this for the tears, so he goes out of his way to not give us any satisfaction. Fortunately, the ignorant make up the majority of the empire player base. ^_^
Dacryphile	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:59:00 - [47] Originally by: Domoso Originally by: Platte Okeefe Originally by: Domoso shrugs I could be wrong. You are How can you be sure? Do you believe without question everything you're told? I've got a jumpbridge to sell you. I only require that you make half payment up front of 1bil isk as a downpayment. You seemed to have skipped over this post: Originally by: Platte Okeefe Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) If this causes either of you to rage quit, can I have your stuff? Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Trigos Trilobi Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.11.04 21:48:00 - [48] You forgot the newest addition: Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1208319&page=1#24
SCGhozt	Posted - 2009.11.05 01:21:00 - [49] Originally by: Trigos Trilobi You forgot the newest addition: Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1208319&page=1#24 Yes i had heard of that from them through ingame mail. and i know this is one of their ways to keep the game i guess to mature people audience (heh) but to me with that ccp says "be an a-hole, it ok" there is nothing mature about that as far as i seen. ok fine be an a-hole but ccp all i want is to be able retaliate if i can. again a waste of time to even bother, ccp just wont fix the "bug" or simply doesnt care about what the majority of people that play eve have said about this issue. intended gameplay? lol please at least come up with another reason.
Schani Kratnorr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.05 02:26:00 - [50] Originally by: SCGhozt lol please at least come up with another reason. Why? It is a perfectly valid reason to give when asked. "No. You are wrong. Fieldgoals are worth three points. That is indeed what we indended when we agreed on the rules for football." As for ninja-salvaging being annoying. Sure it is. But so is being wardecced, suicide ganked or accidentally undocking with global aggro in a high-sec system. Any game has to have rules. Rules that define what people can and cannot do with the game. Part of the fun of EvE is it unrelenting dedication to a harsh environment. My advice would be to align youself with a dedicated salvager. get a corp mate or second account to salvage before others do.

Dacryphile	Posted - 2009.11.05 03:00:00 - [51] Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Part of the fun of EvE is it unrelenting dedication to a harsh environment. That is the only reason I ever started playing it, and the removal of it would cause me to quit.
SCGhozt	Posted - 2009.11.05 03:24:00 - [52] "Part of the fun of EvE is it unrelenting dedication to a harsh environment." i totally agree. like i said i just want to be able to shoot you if i feel like it/care. and yes they could set the rules as they fit, but to me this is just an exploit that people are taking advantage of just like any other bug.
Dacryphile	Posted - 2009.11.05 05:23:00 - [53] Originally by: SCGhozt "Part of the fun of EvE is it unrelenting dedication to a harsh environment." i totally agree. like i said i just want to be able to shoot you if i feel like it/care. and yes they could set the rules as they fit, but to me this is just an exploit that people are taking advantage of just like any other bug. Yet if you read CCPs stance, you know it isn't a bug or an exploit, but something CCP wanted to bring about and coded it to allow it. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Ryhss Caldari Sarum A Fortiori Sanctimony of Bellum	Posted - 2009.11.05 09:13:00 - [54] Originally by: Drakarin Originally by: Chienka Originally by: Sader Rykane When your getting Ninja salvaged. When are you people going to realize they're not your wrecks? AHEM They only exist because I destroyed them. They are a resource I created. They are EXACTLY the same thing as loot, merely requiring a skill to obtain it (which makes it even closer to being like mining, a real profession). If you can't steal loot, you shouldn't be able to steal salvage. End of story. Either get credible by making the loot itself not property of the destroyer, or do the opposite and make wrecks belong to the guy who created them. I mean seriously, if the loot on the wreck belongs to me, the salvage does too. Because salvage is loot too. I concur and support this.
Oviramir Cobalt Dragon Exploration Company	Posted - 2009.11.05 11:14:00 - [55] Originally by: Dacryphile Yet if you read CCPs stance, you know it isn't a bug or an exploit, but something CCP wanted to bring about and coded it to allow it. Just because CCP intended it, doesn't mean we have to agree it is the way it should be. It is the rules of the game so I accept it and deal with it, however I do think that logically wrecks (Notice I am not saying Salvage, which hasn't been created at this point...) and loot should be the same. Both are created by shooting the rat, both spawn where the rat was shot. Therefore I think either both should be fair game for anyone, or both should be private to the creator. I don't care which way around, I just think they should be consistent.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.11.05 11:25:00 - [56] Edited by: Tippia on 05/11/2009 11:26:19 Originally by: Oviramir Originally by: Dacryphile Yet if you read CCPs stance, you know it isn't a bug or an exploit, but something CCP wanted to bring about and coded it to allow it. Just because CCP intended it, doesn't mean we have to agree it is the way it should be. No, but it means that any argument based on "bug" or "exploit" is inherently void. Quote: logically …you would never be able to create any wrecks, because CONCORD would instapwn any rats that spawned. Logic always take a back seat to game play, and in this case, the gameplay dictates that the loot is yours as part of the rewards for killing the rat; that salvage is part of the rewards for being a salvager; and that the two activities are separate and unrelated. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.05 12:22:00 - [57] Quote: His corp does not get agro from you shooting a thief. You could have brought your corpmates in however and all gang **d the thief. Really, I know you are not complaining here, but all the advantages are already in the MR's favour. What else could they possibly want besides an easy button from Staples? It's important to do as is written here. Use corp mates if you get someone "red", because in a missioning ship 1v1 you'll get neuted and owned. Quote:** Therefore I think either both should be fair game for anyone, or both should be private to the creator. I don't care which way around, I just think they should be consistent. Everyone (ninjas and not) bookmark the following I am to say. There's a mirable logic behind the apparently inconsistent of loot and salvaging. Loot is "private" (ie makes a thief flagged for PvP) to entice one side of the deal to bother keep missioning and looting. Salvage is "public" to entice the other side of the deal to bother probing and invading the missions. In the first case, the missioneer is more or less encouraged to believe his killed stuff will remain his to take. If everyone could loot in their face they would stop bothering to even kill stuff and would just blitz the missions. No PvP for the PvP game = bad. In the second case, the ninja is more or less encouraged to believe his ninjaed stuff will remain his to take and the missioneer won't attack. If the ninjas would get flagged, every missioneer would park some PvP ships nearby ready to kill them. Scared ninja that would not come = no PP for the PvP game = bad. Instead EvE puts two traps for two mice so that they meet and a PvP chance is created. They effectively hit two birds with one stone. Brilliant. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Misha Kahan	Posted - 2009.11.05 13:06:00 - [58] You know what I think? I think the system works fine except for one little part... NPC starter corps should not be able to freely salvage other players wrecks. Require them to be in a player corp so if someone takes offense they can do something. This way all the "emergence" that the devs want takes place in game instead of the forums. Really- my eyes are bleeding from all the posts!
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.11.05 15:07:00 - [59] Originally by: Misha Kahan You know what I think? I think the system works fine except for one little part... NPC starter corps should not be able to freely salvage other players wrecks. Require them to be in a player corp so if someone takes offense they can do something. This way all the "emergence" that the devs want takes place in game instead of the forums. Really- my eyes are bleeding from all the posts! Only if missionrunners can't run level 4s in NPC corps.
jeangrey	Posted - 2009.11.05 15:47:00 - [60] i have a problem with "ninja" salvagers. the name... why o why does everyone keep refering to these people as ninjas? its insulting. i am a ninja, as in someone who trains in bujinkan budo taijutsu. i dont nick salvage lol bloody 80`s films gave us all a real bad name. i feel like were the preverbial baddys, like doctor evils henchmen. something goes wrong blame the ninjas eh. grumble grumble besides if ninjas really nicked the salvage you wouldnt notice.. it would just disapeer :)

BlindBleu Gallente BOOMers Inc	Posted - 2009.11.05 18:16:00 - [61] Originally by: Dacryphile Originally by: SCGhozt "Part of the fun of EvE is it unrelenting dedication to a harsh environment." i totally agree. like i said i just want to be able to shoot you if i feel like it/care. and yes they could set the rules as they fit, but to me this is just an exploit that people are taking advantage of just like any other bug. Yet if you read CCPs stance, you know it isn't a bug or an exploit, but something CCP wanted to bring about and coded it to allow it. Yes and in the long history of EVE, many designed features of the game of EVE CCP has changed, mainly in major part do to Griefers/Exploiters. So if you just salvage but do not loot, it will not change. So please continue to loot, your EMO tears when CCP changes it, will fuel many of my ships for years. Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed
Dacryphile	Posted - 2009.11.05 22:25:00 - [62] Originally by: BlindBleu Originally by: Dacryphile Originally by: SCGhozt "Part of the fun of EvE is it unrelenting dedication to a harsh environment." i totally agree. like i said i just want to be able to shoot you if i feel like it/care. and yes they could set the rules as they fit, but to me this is just an exploit that people are taking advantage of just like any other bug. Yet if you read CCPs stance, you know it isn't a bug or an exploit, but something CCP wanted to bring about and coded it to allow it. Yes and in the long history of EVE, many designed features of the game of EVE CCP has changed, mainly in major part do to Griefers/Exploiters. So if you just salvage but do not loot, it will not change. So please continue to loot, your EMO tears when CCP changes it, will fuel many of my ships for years. I do loot, because fact of the matter is that most MRs are too chicken (or smart) to shoot me. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
v00d003	Posted - 2009.11.06 00:25:00 - [63] Originally by: Sader Rykane Why don't you just shoot the wrecks? Something I'll never understand really. Oh ya baby... I do this all the time, but I make a little game of it also. Lock your camera view on the s****bag and track him/her as they burn towards a wreck, when they get close enough to salvage the wreck, destroy it! Its sooo funny watching the idiot race around the room only to have the wreck blow up in front of them over and over again. Sometimes they follow me to the next room, as soon as they show up I hit a trigger and let them pick up the aggro as well OMG! its so freaking funny watching the dummy get his a$$ handed to him. Then I thank him for letting me salvage his ship. Tears missioners, ninja tears for all
Angus McSpork	Posted - 2009.11.06 00:31:00 - [64] Originally by: v00d003 Originally by: Sader Rykane Why don't you just shoot the wrecks? Something I'll never understand really. Oh ya baby... I do this all the time, but I make a little game of it also. Lock your camera view on the s****bag and track him/her as they burn towards a wreck, when they get close enough to salvage the wreck, destroy it! Its sooo funny watching the idiot race around the room only to have the wreck blow up in front of them over and over again. Sometimes they follow me to the next room, as soon as they show up I hit a trigger and let them pick up the aggro as well OMG! its so freaking funny watching the dummy get his a$$ handed to him. Then I thank him for letting me salvage his ship. Tears missioners, ninja tears for all LOL I've taken to doing that too and its funny. The wanna be griefers squeel just as nicely as a "butt-hurt missioneer" so its tears for everyone!
v00d003	Posted - 2009.11.06 00:44:00 - [65] Originally by: Angus McSpork Originally by: v00d003 Originally by: Sader Rykane Why don't you just shoot the wrecks? Something I'll never understand really. Oh ya baby... I do this all the time, but I make a little game of it also. Lock your camera view on the s****bag and track him/her as they burn towards a wreck, when they get close enough to salvage the wreck, destroy it! Its sooo funny watching the idiot race around the room only to have the wreck blow up in front of them over and over again. Sometimes they follow me to the next room, as soon as they show up I hit a trigger and let them pick up the aggro as well OMG! its so freaking funny watching the dummy get his a$$ handed to him. Then I thank him for letting me salvage his ship. Tears missioners, ninja tears for all LOL I've taken to doing that too and its funny. The wanna be griefers squeel just as nicely as a "butt-hurt missioneer" so its tears for everyone! Ya.. I really love it when they start quoting ccp policy on salvage rights lol I'm like wtf ! are you serious. Needless to say the convo never turns into their favor. Runner missions is so much better with ninja tears to fuel my ship
SgtRaider	Posted - 2009.11.06 01:02:00 - [66] Try to get to as many of the wrecks you can to salvage yourself, hard in a mission ship but still might get a little something out of it so it is not a total loss. Another way to avoid this is mission where it is no so crowded. Get as far as you can away from major hubs if possible and still have lvl 3/4 mission agents available. I just moved away from Umokka as that area is crowded with "Ninja's" and "Baiters" (not only salvage but loot)I guess you can call them.
AvaAlt	Posted - 2009.11.06 04:27:00 - [67] O look, ANOTHER ninja salvage thread! Its really not that hard, people. Carry a tractor and salvager on your ship and salvage as ya go (I do this on occasion, I only bother with BS wrecks anyway, works ok) but, honestly, i have seen a ninja salvager in my mission only a handful of times. Stop missioning in systems with 400 people in them, maybe? It dosent happen often enough (to me, anyway) for me to care when it does. I hate mission running anyway, an extra person to talk to breaks the boredom, whether that person is a corpmate or an unexpected ninja. Ive even struck deals with them once or twice where they salvage and loot all the wrecks, and split the isk at the end. Worked out well for both of us, no reason to kvetch.
SCGhozt	Posted - 2009.11.06 04:51:00 - [68] Originally by: AvaAlt O look, ANOTHER ninja salvage thread! Its really not that hard, people. Carry a tractor and salvager on your ship and salvage as ya go. what about ships that orbit you like 30-50km away? my slow moving domi will take ages to get there and the mission will be long done too.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.11.06 05:43:00 - [69] Originally by: SCGhozt Originally by: AvaAlt O look, ANOTHER ninja salvage thread! Its really not that hard, people. Carry a tractor and salvager on your ship and salvage as ya go. what about ships that orbit you like 30-50km away? my slow moving domi will take ages to get there and the mission will be long done too. So don't fly a slow-moving Domi. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Tom Peeping	Posted - 2009.11.06 18:08:00 - [70] hmmm.... you guys realize don't you that having salvage not flag people is that way for protection of the carebear? NOT the salvager? If you've been around long enough, perhaps you remember a day when taking the mins from someones can did NOT cause aggro? Generating aggro for taking those mins from a can was added later because people complained about it. It has been happily used to kill mining noobs ever since. Learn to play dudes... A... this issue has already been formally settled by CCP. B... your right, the current policy is not absolutely consistent across the board, but the reason is to protect noob players. Seriously... do you realize how many MORE isk buyers ships would die if salvage generated aggro? Ninja salvagers would be soooo happy if aggro began to be generated.

Johnny Lurch Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.06 18:56:00 - [71] The ninjas would only adapt. Instead of Vigils and Firetails, they'd warp in on PVP-fitted BS's. They'd still take the salvage/loot. If the MR shoots at the ninja the only change to the outcome would be the ninja wouldn't have to warp out to switch into his gank ship as he'd already be in it.
Katsuri Minamoto	Posted - 2009.11.06 20:40:00 - [72] When a predator kills its prey in the wild, and begins to devour it, what inevitably shows up? Buzzards and carrion's do. Now does the lion get furious at these peculiar creatures and spend all of his time worrying about them, trying to chase, agitate, scare, kill or otherwise make them flee? No, he eats what he can and eventually has to leave the scraps to the bottom feeders of the animal kingdom. Eve is no different, and don't tell me that you can't get your fill from bounties and looting what you can because level 4 missions are the easiest, most trivial thing to do in the entire game to make money. The only thing easier is probably the lowly ninja salvaging itself. Take what you can get and be happy about it you noble beasts. It's the circle of F'ing life.
Slimy Worm	Posted - 2009.11.06 21:37:00 - [73] Originally by: Drakarin Originally by: Chienka Originally by: Sader Rykane When your getting Ninja salvaged. When are you people going to realize they're not your wrecks? AHEM They only exist because I destroyed them. They are a resource I created. They are EXACTLY the same thing as loot, merely requiring a skill to obtain it (which makes it even closer to being like mining, a real profession). If you can't steal loot, you shouldn't be able to steal salvage. End of story. Either get credible by making the loot itself not property of the destroyer, or do the opposite and make wrecks belong to the guy who created them. I mean seriously, if the loot on the wreck belongs to me, the salvage does too. Because salvage is loot too. Run missions in low sec and you can defend your loot from ninja salvagers.
Flynn Fetladral Caldari BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2009.11.06 22:59:00 - [74] People seem to like to beat this horse, poor thing must be a bloody mangled corps by now the've been beating it for so long. Look at the market for salvage over the last 6 months, its pretty much taken a nose dive. It's not even worth wasting your time salvaging anything other than AE, and Sansha and Blood missions for the most part. Shooting the wrecks is a waste of isk.
Boink'urr Minmatar Wasserette De Tarthorst	Posted - 2009.11.07 00:08:00 - [75] Originally by: Tom Peeping hmmm.... you guys realize don't you that having salvage not flag people is that way for protection of the carebear? NOT the salvager? If you've been around long enough, perhaps you remember a day when taking the mins from someones can did NOT cause aggro? Generating aggro for taking those mins from a can was added later because people complained about it. It has been happily used to kill mining noobs ever since. Learn to play dudes... A... this issue has already been formally settled by CCP. B... your right, the current policy is not absolutely consistent across the board, but the reason is to protect noob players. Seriously... do you realize how many MORE isk buyers ships would die if salvage generated aggro? Ninja salvagers would be soooo happy if aggro began to be generated. I'm sorry, i've read that logic before and its flawed. If salvagers were in it for the aggro, they still have the means. Just nick a little something from the loot and you're set.
Jessica Fyers Gallente Azure Horizon	Posted - 2009.11.07 02:36:00 - [76] Originally by: Katsuri Minamoto When a predator kills its prey in the wild, and begins to devour it, what inevitably shows up? Buzzards and carrion's do. Now does the lion get furious at these peculiar creatures and spend all of his time worrying about them, trying to chase, agitate, scare, kill or otherwise make them flee? No, he eats what he can and eventually has to leave the scraps to the bottom feeders of the animal kingdom. Eve is no different, and don't tell me that you can't get your fill from bounties and looting what you can because level 4 missions are the easiest, most trivial thing to do in the entire game to make money. The only thing easier is probably the lowly ninja salvaging itself. Take what you can get and be happy about it you noble beasts. It's the circle of F'ing life. Thats actually a damn good way of putting it! Besides, does it really hurt your wallet if someone comes in and salvages away? In the same time it'd take any non-Marauder mission runner to finish rats, complete mission and return with a salvager ship to clear it up, you could eaisly have done a second mission. Heck, sometimes its quicker ISK even when you just pickup whats in range with the Marauder, and only for BS/BC wrecks. ---------------------------------------------- Some people say you should fight fire with fire... Nonsense of course; you should fight everything with fire!
Platte Okeefe Gallente Terminus Traders COOP	Posted - 2009.11.28 14:25:00 - [77] Originally by: Domoso Originally by: Platte Okeefe Originally by: Domoso shrugs I could be wrong. You are How can you be sure? Do you believe without question everything you're told? I've got a jumpbridge to sell you. I only require that you make half payment up front of 1bil isk as a downpayment. Because Im not a nitwit like you. Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) Do ya need anymore proof? Yeesh Its EVE if ninja salvaging bugs you that much try Hello Kitty online for Petes sake
Bagrista	Posted - 2009.11.28 19:35:00 - [78] Oh wow, yet another topic on ninja salvaging. I like how ninja salvagers always talk about tears and how carebears are stupid (not that a lot of them aren't). Well, I had a mission ninja salvaged from me once - it was a low quality l3 mission for Caldari Navy against Guristas. A ninja came and started salvaging the cruiser (and the odd BC) wrecks. I asked him in local how much does he expect to make by ninjaing in a system far away from any mission hubs and offering only a handful of low level agents - he said something intelligent like "moer than u lol" and added some smack about "nub carebears". Yeah, I'm sure he must have made incredible profit selling salvage from Guristas cruisers - I'm sure he made at least 500k from all those malfunctional shield emitters. That really made my day :)
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.11.28 22:20:00 - [79] Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 28/11/2009 22:23:21 Originally by: jeangrey i have a problem with "ninja" salvagers. the name... why o why does everyone keep refering to these people as ninjas? its insulting. i am a ninja, as in someone who trains in bujinkan budo taijutsu. i dont nick salvage lol bloody 80`s films gave us all a real bad name. i feel like were the preverbial baddys, like doctor evils henchmen. something goes wrong blame the ninjas eh. grumble grumble besides if ninjas really nicked the salvage you wouldnt notice.. it would just disapeer :) Funny you mention this. I have truly Ninja'ed. Sometimes I would keep track of people running missions, but not salvage the wrecks with them present. I would wait for them to leave and then come in with a desy and salvage fast. Keeping track of local until they return with their own salvage ship. No tears, no drama. They go away thinking "Well, the darned wrecks could not have despawned so fast. Didn't think I waited that long..." But as as rule I don't salvage in front of the owner, even miners in belts. They might have a corpy coming to salvage. It's just not cricket. Don't want to be rude. The best Ninja work is to find someone who leaves a mission, for whatever reason, and then go in and pop the ships. Once someone left a mission open for days, I think they were just after the roids, so I spent several days farming the BSs till the mission expired or they might have completed it.
N Ano Caldari SoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.28 22:51:00 - [80] Originally by: Chienka Originally by: Sader Rykane When your getting Ninja salvaged. When are you people going to realize they're not your wrecks? You're.. L2Spell Make the Beership a reality!

Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.11.28 23:14:00 - [81] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 28/11/2009 23:14:51 Originally by: N Ano Originally by: Chienka Originally by: Sader Rykane When your getting Ninja salvaged. When are you people going to realize they're not your wrecks? You're.. L2Spell I facepalmed. When are you going to realize that they're not you are wrecks
SCGhozt	Posted - 2009.11.28 23:42:00 - [82] Originally by: Platte Okeefe Originally by: Domoso Originally by: Platte Okeefe Originally by: Domoso shrugs I could be wrong. You are How can you be sure? Do you believe without question everything you're told? I've got a jumpbridge to sell you. I only require that you make half payment up front of 1bil isk as a downpayment. Because Im not a nitwit like you. Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) Do ya need anymore proof? Yeesh Its EVE if ninja salvaging bugs you that much try Hello Kitty online for Petes sake and there u have it boys and girls.... ccp have their own logic. when i first got ninja salvaged i was like.. wth? why cant i shoot him without concord blowing me up...? isnt he stealing? so i complained to a GM and got one of the above messages. now i'm sure every new mission runner is going to ask a GM the same thing. why? BECAUSE ITS ONLY LOGICAL. i mean who in the right mind cant see that...? even u guys who make your isk like this know this, but of course u guys are not going to admit it. lets all have fun shall we? it would be cool if that would flag people, it could be a pirate trap, or u could be scrap for my pvp alt, who cares. its all part of the fun! also i think this will help boring missions and motivate people carebears to pvp. just my thoughts~
Sea Sprite	Posted - 2009.11.29 04:37:00 - [83] Funny thing is, I'll be happily running my l4s, and broadcast open season on my wrecks, and I've never ONCE gotten a taker. I even throw in the loot, as I really don't care, I make most of my munnie off LP and bounties. No takers. So I'm guessing that people are congregating too much in big mission hubs. (Oddly, though, I'm sitting on the best gallente navy agent. . .) Also a bit of RL foo. . . Maritime law. If you come across a ship adrift, it is fair game. It no longer belongs to whomever/whatever entity owned it. . . or caused it to go adrift.
Willy Pete Aliastra	Posted - 2009.11.29 05:17:00 - [84] Sea Sprite: First logical post. Hope to scan you down, I'll split the effort with you.
Tyrathor Banks	Posted - 2009.11.29 05:41:00 - [85] This mission: Linkage provided me with great satisfaction when the salvager's kestrel went 'pop'. I didnt realise what happened at first until i got a msg from the person and his salvager friend accusing me of destroying the kestrel. Just happened to be my very first time i experienced salvagers dropping in to my missions and i just happened to be near the end of the mission to activate the blast. Just need to say i laughed so much, i told my corp at the time to keep that in mind.... i still laugh now thinking about how funny it was! And yes i looted his wreck and then returned for the hand in....hahahahahahaha..... One of the funniest moments in my EVE time.
Steirmann	Posted - 2009.11.29 06:51:00 - [86] Originally by: M0rkar ..., they would have much less trouble simply asking if they can loot/salvage my missions so they would not have to spent time scanning ... stupid people True, but that remove the fun of scanning someone down, generate no tears, and the ninja would risk being ambushed.
Kalasz Galactic Collective - Caldari Division Sovereign Technologies	Posted - 2009.11.29 06:51:00 - [87] Originally by: Sea Sprite Funny thing is, I'll be happily running my l4s, and broadcast open season on my wrecks, and I've never ONCE gotten a taker. I even throw in the loot, as I really don't care, I make most of my munnie off LP and bounties. No takers. So I'm guessing that people are congregating too much in big mission hubs. (Oddly, though, I'm sitting on the best gallente navy agent. . .) Also a bit of RL foo. . . Maritime law. If you come across a ship adrift, it is fair game. It no longer belongs to whomever/whatever entity owned it. . . or caused it to go adrift. That's EvE for you... the paranoia factor. Any time someone appears nice in local, it must be some sort of trap. Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Sea Sprite	Posted - 2009.11.29 07:00:00 - [88] Edited by: Sea Sprite on 29/11/2009 07:01:32 See, that's just it. . . It usually isn't worth my time to bother with salvaging, since I'm in a domi doing the missions. I suppose I could finish the mission and go get my utilirifter to salvage, but honestly that still takes too much time. Now if someone were willing to punt any meta 4 items to me in exchange for everything else, that'd be WELL worth it, IMO. Back when I was lower skilled it didn't really matter much, but now that I can beat most any l4 (except WC) in under an hour, it is quicker just to beat 'em and move on. (edit) and you don't even need to scan me down. I'm happy to fleet up so you don't even get the agression timer off grabbing the loot.
Mara Tessidar	Posted - 2009.11.30 01:00:00 - [89] If you want safety, security, and no ninja-salvaging, go play Runescape. This is EVE.
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.30 01:03:00 - [90] Since salvaging is not worth my time its probably not worth the ninja's time either. So why care about it at all. Only good reason to ninjasalvage is provoking a fight with a missionrunnerboat so you can gank it. At least in my book. "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound

SCGhozt	Posted - 2009.11.30 01:28:00 - [91] Originally by: Tyrathor Banks This mission: Linkage provided me with great satisfaction when the salvager's kestrel went 'pop'. I didnt realise what happened at first until i got a msg from the person and his salvager friend accusing me of destroying the kestrel. Just happened to be my very first time i experienced salvagers dropping in to my missions and i just happened to be near the end of the mission to activate the blast. Just need to say i laughed so much, i told my corp at the time to keep that in mind.... i still laugh now thinking about how funny it was! And yes i looted his wreck and then returned for the hand in....hahahahahahaha..... One of the funniest moments in my EVE time. LOL this happened also to me but he was a friendly corp mate. still i couldnt stop laughing and i did pay for his stuff. on the other hand no one here is talking about it being save for the mission runner or to everything that u do its just for u. hell that would be like calling isk farmers in. it would be nice to fight if i wanted or cared. and to whoever said something about RL wrecks and loot in the ocean being free, that could be true i dont know/care this is eve so tell ccp to make cans free for all again.:P
Babel Boom and Bust Economics Ltd. Naraka.	Posted - 2009.11.30 01:43:00 - [92] From Patchnotes: "Player owned wrecks can now be marked as "available for all", which allows everybody to take from them without causing aggression." Be happy mission-runners - now you have no excuse for being tricked into aggro :) Be happy salvagers - more loots without aggro issues for you to make money from ... :) Everyone's happy now right ? . "Out of the good of evil born, Came Uriel's voice of cherub scorn"
Shana Matika	Posted - 2009.11.30 08:11:00 - [93] Well in fact, i do. As i mission in a lazor roxxor ship i don't care about ammo. And when i use my cnr the sentrydrone will do the job (cary just 5 light hob/warrior for frigs). Every Ninja left about 10sec after the first few wrecks went pop. Why I do this? Well, he could ask BEFORE... When you ask gently in local there are more then enough mission grinder who don't salvage and will let you salvage their sites. Just make yourself a name of beeing a fair salvager and you would get enough bookmarks, in fact more then you could salvage, especially in mission hubs.
Karmasutra Woopatang Primary.	Posted - 2009.12.01 19:26:00 - [94] Whats a mission? Never seen those in 0.0 ;)
Toxif Minmatar Hmmzor.	Posted - 2009.12.01 21:13:00 - [95] Edited by: Toxif on 01/12/2009 21:14:49 My god, people. This game is designed to have a dark, uninviting atmosphere. Someday, I'll catch that tool with the signature telling CCP the "right" thing to do is shift the focus from PvP to PvE. No. This is a PvP-centric game with just the right amount of PvE. For Marley's sake, even the endgame is considered to be nullsec. I am a missionbear, and I have been the "victim" of ninja salvaging before. I didn't throw a hissy and cry and squeal like that crazy German kid whose computer froze or the little bitch whose parents took away his WoW account. I played WoW for five years and was glad to finally drop it for this. I had my hand held in that game every step of the way. EVE is about risk. If you can't handle it, feel free to drop your sub, give your stuff to the needy folks in C&P, and GTFO. Do whatever the hell you want when a ninja warps into your mission: pop your wrecks, try to tractor and salvage before he can, warp in and out, shoot him and get CONCORDED for your failure. It doesn't matter. Do not, however, expect CCP to change the game's ambience to match that of WoW. The moment that happens, I assure you they will lose more subs from real players than they do now from whiney turds like you. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Mac user :D
CO Bradley	Posted - 2009.12.01 22:28:00 - [96] Edited by: CO Bradley on 01/12/2009 22:30:31 Originally by: Samuel Mason One day I decided to ninja salvage, this guy in a drake shot me and got destroyed by concord... I felt so bad I quit ninja salvaging. I've heard this very same story not long ago....only it was a guy in a drake who was 'upset' because he shot someone while they were salvaging his wrecks and got blown up by concord. ahahahahahaha
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.12.03 19:39:00 - [97] Originally by: Trigos Trilobi You forgot the newest addition: Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1208319&page=1#24 Gracious, how did I ever miss this? Must be because I don't read Features And Ideas as a rule. I'm off to update the quotes page, thank you! ------------------ Ironfleet.com
D melanogaster Minmatar The Fruit Flys	Posted - 2009.12.03 20:12:00 - [98] Originally by: Drakarin Originally by: Chienka Originally by: Sader Rykane When your getting Ninja salvaged. When are you people going to realize they're not your wrecks? AHEM They only exist because I destroyed them. They are a resource I created. They are EXACTLY the same thing as loot, merely requiring a skill to obtain it (which makes it even closer to being like mining, a real profession). If you can't steal loot, you shouldn't be able to steal salvage. End of story. Either get credible by making the loot itself not property of the destroyer, or do the opposite and make wrecks belong to the guy who created them. I mean seriously, if the loot on the wreck belongs to me, the salvage does too. Because salvage is loot too. You shoot a ship and it becomes a wreck. You did that work for the rights to the loot. you have not done ANYTHING yet for rights to the salvage.. That takes additional work. Someone who salvages the wreck that you created is doing the work for rights to the salvage.. THEY did that work NOT YOU!! Why don't people understand that?
Solomar Espersei Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.12.03 20:55:00 - [99] God I love these threads. OK, so now I'm starting to get it. It's very upsetting to some mission runners when I find their mission, jump in uninvited and start doing my thing. I think in fairness, I'll start looting more often giving you fellas the opportunity to fry my Vigil. Also, from now on, when you shoot the wrecks, I'll take that as an expression that you are very upset at me and I'll simply leave. Or maybe someone can convince me to change sides and start running my own missions, creating my own wrecks for change, turn away from this dark path that I've chosen. Hrmm...
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.03 21:10:00 - [100] If a ninja salvager shows up, I shoot the wrecks and believe me...........the the only tears I'm shedding when I do are from laughter. I'm making money in the mission while they're making zip AND I get to torment them by shooting the wrecks just as they get to them. I really love it when the ninja guys start getting indignant and whining. I don't really care what the devs say. They are my wrecks to do with as I see fit. Merely because the mechanics of the game allow and do not flag ninja slavaging as theft does not mean it's any less theft. They're thieves and should become accustomed to the title. Devs don't want to have ninja salvagers flagged for two reasons. One, it's work to code the flagging system. Two, the devs are interested in encouraging new players by giving them EZ mode of play at the expense of long term players (acquisition of new players versus retention of players). If you're a believer in whatever doesn't get you flagged or concorded must be morally correct and therefore be linked to ownership or lack thereof, try this. *If the wreck doesn't belong to anyone, why can I shoot it and nobody else can without getting concorded?* Regards, Windjammer

D melanogaster Minmatar The Fruit Flys	Posted - 2009.12.03 22:04:00 - [101] Originally by: Windjammer ...tears... *If the wreck doesn't belong to anyone, why can I shoot it and nobody else can without getting concorded?* You can shoot at it because only you can destroy your loot, when you kill a ship it is only loot that exists. There is no salvage yet. Someone has to work to extract that salvage. If they do the work then they have every right to the reward.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.03 22:49:00 - [102] Originally by: D melanogaster Originally by: Windjammer ...tears... *If the wreck doesn't belong to anyone, why can I shoot it and nobody else can without getting concorded?* You can shoot at it because only you can destroy your loot, when you kill a ship it is only loot that exists. There is no salvage yet. Someone has to work to extract that salvage. If they do the work then they have every right to the reward. First, you *WISH* I was crying instead of laughing. Second, you seem to be saying that your hard work, as a fruit fly (really accurate name for your corp, well done) creates salvage where none existed. The wrecks contain the salvage which you extract. You don't create anything. Any more than loot is created by someone shooting an NPC ship. Loot in an NPC ship exists as a potential until the NPC ship is shot and the extraction process begins. Completion of the extraction process happens when there is a transfer from the wreck to a cargohold. In just the same way salvage exists as a potential until the NPC ship is shot and the extraction process begins. Completion of the extraction process occurs when the wreck is slavaged and the salvage is in a cargohold. If it's only loot I'm shooting, why can I shoot empty wrecks? Those without any loot at all. You keep telling yourself whatever you have to. I'll keep shooting the wrecks and laughing. Windjammer
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.03 23:06:00 - [103] Originally by: D melanogaster Someone has to work to extract that salvage. If they do the work then they have every right to the reward. Soooo.......it's not work to build standing with a corp so that you can get access to the agent to get a mission? It's not work to build your skills and obtain isk for a ship to do the missions? It's not work to hunt down and shoot rats or shoot NPC's in a mission? To say nothing of the work to replace ships you lose in missions. Windjammer
Vadania Amastacia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.12.03 23:41:00 - [104] Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.04 00:15:00 - [105] Originally by: Vadania Amastacia Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) Blah, blah, blah. Corporate espionage and theft are intended game machnaics too. You don't see anyone trying to deny it's stealing. At least those guys have the sack to admit it and even brag about it instead of whining about somebody accusing them of stealing. Windjammer
ginlaan	Posted - 2009.12.04 00:19:00 - [106] I just waste there time by only salvaging the large and some mediums on the fly and leave the rest up. In a popular system there is competition on the guys that salvage to get to the next mission runner and get the spoils. By Taking the meat and leaving the scraps they just wasted there time on my mission when maybe they could of got the large salvage from someone else mission. Is it affective? I have no idea. I do know that wasting time salvaging small wrecks is not going to make you rich by any means hence why i leave them up:-) I got the idea from a mate who bust's into mission to salvage he basically said its really the only way to grief back since they know there not going get much.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.12.04 00:20:00 - [107] Edited by: Kyra Felann on 04/12/2009 00:21:46 Now that we can abandon wrecks, I'd probably just do that and let them have it because I'm usually too lazy to salvage and loot unless it's all gathered in one nice, neat group. They turn to a nice blue color.
Birdman Ravo	Posted - 2009.12.04 02:38:00 - [108] Good fun is to use drones to blow up the wrecks. Slow drones, mind you. Ogres or something. Then it's a race to the next wreck against an equally fast frigate (usually). Mess around with the ninja a little and enjoy yourself. Ask him to shoot some frigates for you. See if you can make him pull aggro without warping out. This is a game after all.
Ivanheo	Posted - 2009.12.04 03:30:00 - [109] Total don't konw what are you talking about~~~
Widshin	Posted - 2009.12.04 07:55:00 - [110] Originally by: Tyrathor Banks This mission: Linkage provided me with great satisfaction when the salvager's kestrel went 'pop'. Pretty much the same happened to me, that guy was cloaked in a cov op and apparently wanted to ransom the mission completion item to me.. when the station went boom he was in his pod going WTF?.

Zahorite	Posted - 2009.12.04 11:14:00 - [111] No matter how many ninja salvagers say that they enjoy watching me shoot wrecks I'm still going to shoot them. The reason is because I enjoy sitting in a battleship at popping wrecks while the ninja salvager dashes around like a chicken with their head cut off going after wrecks. It's really a matter of perspective, they may be laughing since I'm not gaining anything, but I'm also laughing for the exact same reason.
skyk Domination.	Posted - 2009.12.04 12:11:00 - [112] Ninja Salvagers miss the point. It actually makes missions more fun if you get to blow up wrecks just before the salvager gets to them. Missions are pretty damn boring otherwise.
Mikal Drey Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.04 12:33:00 - [113] hey hey with the new abandon wreck function id like to know how TEARS/SN feel about why this mechanic was added. if you consider that the wrecks arent ever owned by anyone and CCP's stance has always been wrecks are public domain (and i agree fyi) why would you need to abandon something thats never yours ? broken mechanics ? shouldnt they been public by default and not by choice ? also what do you guys feel about abandoned wrecks being scannable and making salvaging more of a legtimate "mini profession" and those who dont give a flying fork about the wrecks can simply abandon them. lastly with the wrecks becomming abandonable does this actually make white/yellow wreck owned ? and "ninja salvaging" becoming a griefing tactic ? what if white/yellow wrecks actually caused agression when salvaged and not just when looted ?
Stealnutz Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.12.04 13:25:00 - [114] Edited by: Stealnutz on 04/12/2009 13:26:40 Originally by: Mikal Drey hey hey with the new abandon wreck function id like to know how TEARS/SN feel about why this mechanic was added. if you consider that the wrecks arent ever owned by anyone and CCP's stance has always been wrecks are public domain (and i agree fyi) why would you need to abandon something thats never yours ? broken mechanics ? shouldnt they been public by default and not by choice ? also what do you guys feel about abandoned wrecks being scannable and making salvaging more of a legtimate "mini profession" and those who dont give a flying fork about the wrecks can simply abandon them. lastly with the wrecks becomming abandonable does this actually make white/yellow wreck owned ? and "ninja salvaging" becoming a griefing tactic ? what if white/yellow wrecks actually caused agression when salvaged and not just when looted ? I guess the abandon option lets mission runners indicate that they are happy to leave wrecks/loot - allowing a co-op salvage operation with randoms, without being in the same corp or fleeted, etc. I Don't think this indicates a broken mechanic, just a tool to allow cooperation. As far as I know the abandon option only affects loot as salvage is ffo anyways, so its effect on ninja salvaging is going to be pretty insignificant. I guess you are abandoning the loot in the wreck rather than the wreck itself. As scanning for wrecks, shrugs - the best salvage will invariably be in active missions so I don't know why you'd want to waste time scanning down a shed-load of small and medium wrecks. Unless, of course, you have some internal objection to salvaging active missions, in which case just scan out 5-6 missions and return to them periodically - you'll find plenty of abandoned stuff then. If wrecks caused aggresion then even more mission runners will loose their ships - at least as it stands the mr can just ignore the ninja. edit: spellin
Aralieus Amarr Traumark Logistics	Posted - 2009.12.04 14:25:00 - [115] Edited by: Aralieus on 04/12/2009 14:32:44 Edited by: Aralieus on 04/12/2009 14:31:02 I tried it once..its a big f'kn bore If I want some pvp I will just take myself to lowsec or drop a can and wait for someone who wants to pvp. Not saying I'm pro care-bear but it just seems more trouble than its worth. Kudos for popping a emo-carebear but really, how hard did you think it was going to be considering thier pve fitted and your pvp fitted You will get ALOT more funner fights fighting somebody thats capable in the art of pew pew than some mission runner who you cheaply got aggro from... jus sayin' Fortune Favors the Bold!!
Riedle Minmatar Raptus Regalitor Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.12.04 14:52:00 - [116] Originally by: Windjammer Originally by: Vadania Amastacia Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) Blah, blah, blah. Corporate espionage and theft are intended game machnaics too. You don't see anyone trying to deny it's stealing. At least those guys have the sack to admit it and even brag about it instead of whining about somebody accusing them of stealing. Windjammer I ninja salvaged and then I grew up and started ninja looting as well. Believe me - you don't want ninja salvaging to cause aggro. :)
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.04 19:20:00 - [117] Originally by: Riedle Blah, blah, blah. Corporate espionage and theft are intended game machnaics too. You don't see anyone trying to deny it's stealing. At least those guys have the sack to admit it and even brag about it instead of whining about somebody accusing them of stealing. Windjammer I ninja salvaged and then I grew up and started ninja looting as well. Believe me - you don't want ninja salvaging to cause aggro. :) There is absolutely no reason I would not want ninja salvaging to cause aggro. I'd have the same situation as now, plus I'd be able to decide if I want to pop the littler bugger, just shoot the wrecks or both. I'd have everything I have now plus that. The ninja on the other hand would have a new and exciting lifstyle. Something that would cause me no small amount of pleasure. I'm happy now. I'd be even happier then. Windjammer
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.04 19:43:00 - [118] Originally by: Babel From Patchnotes: "Player owned wrecks can now be marked as "available for all", which allows everybody to take from them without causing aggression." Be happy mission-runners - now you have no excuse for being tricked into aggro :) Be happy salvagers - more loots without aggro issues for you to make money from ... :) Everyone's happy now right ? Not really. I don't want to have to click through the context menu everytime to make a wreck FFA. I just want my wrecks to be FFA when they appear But for everyone actually getting ninja salvaged (the ones who actually care). Right click -> abandon all nearby wrecks. Then one of two things will happen: they will continue to salvage and maybe loot, if that is all they were there for, or they will warp off if they were trying to get you to shoot at them. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.


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