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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.11.16 20:43:00 -
[271]
I wish some idiot would agree to pay me 1 bil per t3 ship kill.
I have to agree that the contract NOIR negotiated with Maru Kage is totaly ****ed up. But its not NOIR's job to hand hold ******ed people from making huge mistakes. It is their job to insure that the said ******ed people have some chance of paying them.
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Nathan Wolfe
Caldari Axe Gang
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Posted - 2009.11.16 21:16:00 -
[272]
Edited by: Nathan Wolfe on 16/11/2009 21:16:59
Originally by: Awesome Possum proof or stfu
i.e.
high def/high res screen shots
This really. Noir. has chat logs and their reputation, what you got? You need proof to conduct effective forum warfare. Even a lowly C&P noob like myself knows this so surely a powerful upstart alliance like MK is aware of the rules of engagement. Right?
Edit: Spelling fail
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xxxak
Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.16 21:26:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Sick Boy Ok I don't post a lot but the amount alek is lying is amazing. He should be ashamed of himself as a man. He has doctored the original deal contract chat log. The part he is leaving out that is important is that I SPECIFICALLY told him that PL had left system and that their would be no need to attack everyhthing around x-7 because the enemy was no longer there. I told him the SPECIFIC target was now MUTINY alliance in the ONE system of ROIR. Even the leaders of MUTINY know they were NOIRs target. Not like it was a surprise to anyone. So for alek to say that the contract was for EVERYTHING around is a complete lie and deep down he knows it, mutiny knows it, but he comes on here and lies to everyone and his own members about what the true contract was. Why would I care about roaming NC gangs? SO keep lying about what the contract really was alek, and that is all I am going to say about this situation.
Post screen shots or you have zero credibility.
And for everyone that says that commandships and T3 ships should be ignored.. that doesn't make any sense. If you hire someone to inflict pain on an enemy, a T3 kill is certainly a good way of inflicting pain. In fact, its even better and the tears are sweeter than a few stupid T2 HAC kills.
In this case all credible evidence indicates that Sick Boy hired Noir. to attack "everything" in the 2-3 systems around X-70. The contract terms were slightly vague if you don't have experience with such contracts, but Sick Boy should have known he was entering into a potentially expensive and serious agreement.
Final note, I am a rank-and-file null sec player, and I could have EASILY come up with more than 2 bil ISK to save my name/alliance. LOL?
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SetrakDark
Caldari DarkCorp Technology and Finance
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Posted - 2009.11.16 21:53:00 -
[274]
Originally by: xxxak Final note, I am a rank-and-file null sec player, and I could have EASILY come up with more than 2 bil ISK to save my name/alliance. LOL?
seriously
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Altaica Amur
Ichizoku
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Posted - 2009.11.16 21:54:00 -
[275]
I'd go even further and say that Sick Boy already has zero credibility and thus has to present better proof then has been offered by Noir. basically screenshots as previously suggested.
Still quite entertaining btw!
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ANALDESTROYR
Gallente No Compromise
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:06:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Altaica Amur I'd go even further and say that Sick Boy already has zero credibility
SICK BOY HAS NO HONOUR
I WILL MAKE DEALING OF THIS WITH MY MERC CORP FOR JUSTICE.
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Zedrik Cayne
Gallente Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:39:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Sick Boy Ok I don't post a lot but the amount alek is lying is amazing. He should be ashamed of himself as a man. He has doctored the original deal contract chat log. The part he is leaving out that is important is that I SPECIFICALLY told him that PL had left system and that their would be no need to attack everyhthing around x-7 because the enemy was no longer there. I told him the SPECIFIC target was now MUTINY alliance in the ONE system of ROIR. Even the leaders of MUTINY know they were NOIRs target. Not like it was a surprise to anyone. So for alek to say that the contract was for EVERYTHING around is a complete lie and deep down he knows it, mutiny knows it, but he comes on here and lies to everyone and his own members about what the true contract was. Why would I care about roaming NC gangs? SO keep lying about what the contract really was alek, and that is all I am going to say about this situation.
This sir is slander. I know Alek, have worked with him on rare occasion, and I don't believe that he would tarnish his reputation over this.
I know very little about you. But am learning slowly as my investigation continues. From observation I do not have a lot of confidence that you will prove to be a much more trustworthy person than Alek, and that folks will believe your allegations.
That being said, please provide chat-logs, eve-mails, and other proof in un-modified forms so that we may judge for ourselves. Whole logs please including timestamps if you would. I can provide you with an e-mail address to send them to. I am certain that they will add weight to your position in the IEEE's investigation into this matter. We here at the IEEE would be happy to properly format and present them as your case. --
Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
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Awesome Possum
Imperium Signal Corps
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:01:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Zed I can provide you with an e-mail address to send them to. I am certain that they will add weight to your position in the IEEE's investigation into this matter.
Love ya Zed, but chatlogs are too easily forged. I can make one with a creation date of any day you'd like ;)
High res/High def screenshots are all i'd accept. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Shade Millith
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:32:00 -
[279]
So rather than announcing your objection to the claimed contract in your first, second, third, ect post you've made in this thread, you've left it until NOW to dispute it?
/me grabs the popcorn
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Daniel Ogden
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:44:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Zedrik Cayne
Originally by: Sick Boy Removed to allow for more space to type.
This sir is slander. I know Alek, have worked with him on rare occasion, and I don't believe that he would tarnish his reputation over this.
I know very little about you. But am learning slowly as my investigation continues. From observation I do not have a lot of confidence that you will prove to be a much more trustworthy person than Alek, and that folks will believe your allegations.
That being said, please provide chat-logs, eve-mails, and other proof in un-modified forms so that we may judge for ourselves. Whole logs please including timestamps if you would. I can provide you with an e-mail address to send them to. I am certain that they will add weight to your position in the IEEE's investigation into this matter. We here at the IEEE would be happy to properly format and present them as your case.
Ok I for one was hoping that this would just slip away and be over but since everyone in C&P seems to have a ****on over this I will address this concern.
Nowhere in the case presented by Alek (specifically the chat logs he copied) does he post anything about agreeing to go after MUTINY although that was part of the deal. He specifically omitted this data to paint the picture he wanted to paint and I'm sure it's not really difficult for him to win over the hearts of his fellow merc buddies on C&P in the first place. We really don't need high quality images in order to prove this point beyond a reasonable doubt though, and it's a good thing because we don't have any. We too banked on Noir's reputation and didn't keep a high res image (or any image) of the chats that took place.
One need only consider his selective chat log postings and consider statements he has made in this thread. He doesn't post any logs about the talk of targeting MUTINY yet he acknowledges the conversation very explicitly here:
Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde We did a good faith effort to kill your preferred targets when we saw them
If a specific target was never in the discussion why would he say this? We don't need screen shots all we need is very basic deductive reasoning, he left information out on purpose so he would have a good reason to call his buddies and to try and put the squeeze on us for 5bln. It seems pretty straight forward and obvious at this point.
As for us breaking the contract... even if what he has actually posted was all of the 'contract' and they want to get technical about that language then they still have no leg to stand on. They were to camp ROIR and they didn't. They were rarely even in system. The logs posted state to "kill everything". Agreeing to that metric is as ludicrous as what sick boy agreed to and is arguably an impossible task. If we were to take the same stance that Noir was taking we would say they failed on the contract and we owe nothing. As a point of principle we don't believe in doing that and came to an agreement of 2bln, pretty good for 4 days work. After agreeing to that Noir still won't just give it a rest and is still saying that we tried to rip them off.
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Sick Boy
Minmatar Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:45:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Shade Millith So rather than announcing your objection to the claimed contract in your first, second, third, ect post you've made in this thread, you've left it until NOW to dispute it?
/me grabs the popcorn
well I usually don't care about forum wars or what my men post about, but the amount of lies spewing from alek and all of eve gobbling it up hook line and sinker is nauseating. Why would I care about him attacking gangs of nc noobs all day? How does that benefit me or my alliance. There was 1 target and 1 system always. PL in x-7 first and then when they left, mutiny in roir. That is the 100% truth, so when the guy tries to rip me off, I feel disgusted but at the same time bad amount giving him nothing, so I give him 2 billion for killing SOME mutity. He can post all day with his 100 alts to spin it any which way he wants, but at the end of the day the guy has no honor and the truth is the truth.
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Mickey Simon
Blutkinder
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:51:00 -
[282]
HIT ENTER ONCE IN A WHILE YOU SPASTIC LITTLE MAN WHO IS SO **** AT THIS GAME YOU CANNOT AFFORD 5BN ISK AS AN ALLIANCE. ALSO BIOMASS YOURSELF AND STOP POSTING.
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ANALDESTROYR
Gallente No Compromise
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Posted - 2009.11.17 01:01:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Mickey Simon BIOMASS YOURSELF AND STOP POSTING.
YOU ARE ALSO TERRIBLE AT HON.
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RedSplat
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.11.17 01:07:00 -
[284]
This is a gift that just keeps on giving
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Taram Caldar
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.11.17 01:13:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Xiaodown
Originally by: Taram Caldar
It's also important to note that they could have negotiated for any number of other payment meathods. Every contract Noir. does is unique to the client. We don't have a flat pricing system, it depends on what the client and Alek agree to. If he didn't like the terms of the agreement he could have offered a different one. We've done flat rate contracts, pay per kill contracts, performance benchmark contracts etc. It really depends on what the client wants and what Alek and the Client agree to.
Not our fault at all that the client agreed to a very clear pricing scheme and didn't want to live up to their end of the bargain.
Everyone who hires a Merc should explicitly add the following to their contract:
"(terms of payment...) up to a maximum of X isk."
How is that something that people fail to do?
(sup taram!)
Hey Xiaodown! LTNS M8... hope all is well in your corner of the universe.
And, yah... I really don't get why so many clients fail to do that, or something similar. Many do and many are good negotiators that work well with us... others... not so much :)
Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples |
Mickey Simon
Blutkinder
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Posted - 2009.11.17 01:19:00 -
[286]
Originally by: ANALDESTROYR
Originally by: Mickey Simon BIOMASS YOURSELF AND STOP POSTING.
YOU ARE ALSO TERRIBLE AT HON.
Wat. Had the most annoying game yesterday, Skiba and I go top as usual, then Orange decides he also wishes to play at top. I'm yelling over voice and abusing the **** out of him via text as well, but he wants to lane with me for some ******ed reason. Game pretty much went like that, BUT DESPITE ******S I HAD A POSITIVE SCORE SO F U M8.
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Shade Millith
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.17 01:44:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Sick Boy well I usually don't care about forum wars or what my men post about
You're MK, the forum is your battleground.
Originally by: Sick Boy but the amount of lies spewing from alek and all of eve gobbling it up hook line and sinker is nauseating. Why would I care about him attacking gangs of nc noobs all day? How does that benefit me or my alliance. There was 1 target and 1 system always. PL in x-7 first and then when they left, mutiny in roir. That is the 100% truth
Quote: 2009.10.14 01:41 pure blind. in x-7omu NPC system space. basicaslly killing everyone in site in the area.
Quote: 2009.10.14 01:53 just standings to our alliance and mordus angels. system list is x-7omu and 2 jumps out from here in any direction http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Pure_Blind
Quote: Np, but i'd add ROIR and all adjacent systems to your bill in addition to the X-7 + 2 jumps
This doesn't seem to indicate that you wanted one system and one target only.
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w1ldt4ngent
SWARTA
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Posted - 2009.11.17 02:07:00 -
[288]
I thought this was resolved 3 or 4 pages ago? Money changed hands and standings are neutral. If Noir. really did stiff you, you did the honourable thing and at least gave them something for their time. If you stiffed them, they let you off easy.
It's win-win for both sides, why can't you just let it die? Oh wait. This is EVE. SRS BZNS INTERNET SPACESHIP DRAMA!
___________________________ Swartans! Prepare for glory! |
Moon Penguin
Minmatar Morgal and Ketchum Mining Guild
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Posted - 2009.11.17 03:10:00 -
[289]
There are two sides to every story. Without an objective third party that witnessed the agreement and collected screenshots/logs of the deal, there is no way to 100% resolve this.
Let it die.
Noir. can go about attacking Sick Boy and Maru Kage as they see fit in X-7 and use the two billion isk they received as a consolation prize.
If Noir. feels cheated over two billion isk for four days worth of roaming a pvp-easy area, they need their heads examined. While a contract is a contract, none of us actually know what the contract stipulated or the terms and agreements that were met during negotiations. We only have Aleks' word versus Sick's word.
For all we know, the contract could been "kill everything (PL or MUTINY related) in XYZ system at 50% of total isk value destroyed." As someone earlier said, chat logs are easily modified and Maru Kage is a popular target that draws a lot of ire from the forum player-base. Given the chance, I'd use whatever means necessary to squeeze as much ISK as possible out of a target like that.
I can't believe I spent this long replying to a 10 page thread about ambiguous contracts. FML.
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Fig Jam
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Posted - 2009.11.17 03:17:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Moon Penguin
Let it die.
No way, far too amusing.
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Shosin Tamaka
Gallente Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.11.17 03:18:00 -
[291]
Originally by: Moon Penguin There are two sides to every story. Without an objective third party that witnessed the agreement and collected screenshots/logs of the deal, there is no way to 100% resolve this.
Let it die.
Noir. can go about attacking Sick Boy and Maru Kage as they see fit in X-7 and use the two billion isk they received as a consolation prize.
If Noir. feels cheated over two billion isk for four days worth of roaming a pvp-easy area, they need their heads examined. While a contract is a contract, none of us actually know what the contract stipulated or the terms and agreements that were met during negotiations. We only have Aleks' word versus Sick's word.
For all we know, the contract could been "kill everything (PL or MUTINY related) in XYZ system at 50% of total isk value destroyed." As someone earlier said, chat logs are easily modified and Maru Kage is a popular target that draws a lot of ire from the forum player-base. Given the chance, I'd use whatever means necessary to squeeze as much ISK as possible out of a target like that.
I can't believe I spent this long replying to a 10 page thread about ambiguous contracts. FML.
Thank you for a fair post.
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Doctor Cal'torien
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.17 03:54:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Fig Jam
Originally by: Moon Penguin
Let it die.
No way, far too amusing.
/signed
the second part not the first also, Sex --- YOUR BABIES ARE TASTY
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome "Set artillery to stun!"
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Moon Penguin
Minmatar Morgal and Ketchum Mining Guild
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Posted - 2009.11.17 04:00:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Doctor Cal'torien
also, Sex
I concur.
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CCP Ildoge
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Posted - 2009.11.17 04:13:00 -
[294]
* This thread has become off topic, locking thread. - CCP Ildoge Ildoge Community Representative CCP Hf Contact us |
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