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Maru Ka'ge Breaks Contract with Noir.

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Alekseyev Karrde Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:28:00 - [1] tl;dr Sick Boy, leader of Maru'Kage, hired Noir. for 1 week with extension against all non Maru targets within 2 jumps of X-70MU and ROIR-Y at a 150m upfront fee and 50% damage upon completion. During conversations about moving to a new set of systems because of progress ahead of schedule and extending for a second week in the new area, Sick Boy asked for his current balance (4.925 billion), which he then refused to pay even partially. Full story w convo and evemail goodness: 2009.10.13 19:36 You guys free for a large and profitable 0.0 campaign in pure blind? we are looking to hire. If not when would you be free. thanks, sick boy 2009.10.14 01:41 pure blind. in x-7omu NPC system space. basicaslly killing everyone in site in the area. -------------------- 2009.10.13 20:43 mmmmm tell me more ^^ Very interested in more 0.0 work We're free in a week and a half or two and a half weeks depending on extension clauses. -------------------- 2009.10.13 19:36 You guys free for a large and profitable 0.0 campaign in pure blind? we are looking to hire. If not when would you be free. thanks, sick boy 2009.10.14 01:48 well there is a specific target, we want everyone killed in this system or surrounding systems. so when you ready to start the campaign, have the men move to x-7omu our home system. we basically want all of the kills done within 2 jumps from here -------------------- 2009.10.14 01:43 sounds like fun. 150m upfront, 50% damage on completion. Default is a week, if we exceed your budget let me know and we'll end early -------------------- 2009.10.14 01:41 pure blind. in x-7omu NPC system space. basicaslly killing everyone in site in the area. -------------------- 2009.10.13 20:43 mmmmm tell me more ^^ Very interested in more 0.0 work We're free in a week and a half or two and a half weeks depending on extension clauses. -------------------- 2009.10.13 19:36 You guys free for a large and profitable 0.0 campaign in pure blind? we are looking to hire. If not when would you be free. thanks, sick boy 2009.10.14 02:10 isk sent -------------------- 2009.10.14 02:08 yeah sounds great. Reserve your spot w the upfront isk, will probs start in 2 weeks -------------------- 2009.10.14 01:53 just standings to our alliance and mordus angels. system list is x-7omu and 2 jumps out from here in any direction http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Pure_Blind -------------------- 2009.10.14 01:50 give me a list of the systems and no problem. We'll kill more than just around there but that's what we'll charge you for. Any standings involved w thias? [[[bit of a break for a while, PL comes in and he talks about dropping the contract but then he decided to keep going with it]]] 2009.11.02 08:45 when you guys are ready i want you guys to base out of ROIR and kill Everyone in that system and camp them 2009.11.02 17:16 ok sounds good -------------------- 2009.11.02 12:44 Np, but i'd add ROIR and all adjacent systems to your bill in addition to the X-7 + 2 jumps -------------------- 2009.11.02 08:45 when you guys are ready i want you guys to base out of ROIR and kill Everyone in that system and camp them [[[I ask about extention]]] 2009.11.06 01:37 i can let you know right now i will for sure want it extended at least another week -------------------- 2009.11.05 17:16 If you want your contract to be extended a second week please let me know by the 11th. You dont have to pay the 1st week till that friday but a heads up that you plan to extend would be really appriciated so i know whether or not to line up another contract. thanks a bunch, -Aleks Pt 2 follows --- Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam
Securitas Protector Stealthfield Ihatalo Cartel Navy	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:33:00 - [2] First! They'll regret that... Proud to be shaych
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:35:00 - [3] Originally by: Securitas Protector First! Goddamn five minute timer ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM
Bai ZongTong HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:36:00 - [4] this will be dealt with. HYDRA RELOADED 2009: APPLY TODAY. JOIN THE WINNING SIDE.
Alekseyev Karrde Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:36:00 - [5] Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 11/11/2009 09:36:43 Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 11/11/2009 09:36:10 Get a PM from Nidia Masters who was convo'd by Raiiden (Maru guy) about moving us toward Pure Blind space owned by The Council. I am unable to log into EVE for a bit but when i do log on, i follow up and get into a convo with Sick Boy, Raiiden and a few others working out the details of where they want us to do and where exactly they want us doing it. This would have been the third time they've moved things around on us but we agree that we can finish out the week on our current instructions and then move over for week 2, which at that point i was happy enough to do. Sick Boy inquires about his balance so i look at the kb and apply a 50% modifier, total 4.925 bn at that point. Since it's a lot i say just call it 4.9 Sick Boy flips out, says that he only had 2 bil set aside for merc corps based on The Final Stands pay scale. I point out that i would have loved to have known that upfront so we could have stopped early, that our killboard is public, and that based on his comments about things going well and extending I assumed he'd looked at it. I ask if they have anything to trade for the balance or if we could work out some kind of deal, at which point Sick Boy says he will not pay us at all, resets us, and tells us to bring it. I try talking to another contact point (Raiiden again) to see if Sick is just stressed out. Raiiden says he'll talk to him and i wait for response, which is a Maru gang rolling through the gate with a bait BS and blobs one of our assault frigs. Alekseyev Karrde > mutiny i mean Sick Boy > well NC has alot of crappy pilots Sick Boy > all over the place so Alekseyev Karrde > they just havnt been showing us alot Sick Boy > a campaign agasint them Sick Boy > would be shooting fish in a barrael Alekseyev Karrde > haha Sick Boy > so what are we taling here Alekseyev Karrde > Morsus got really ****ed at us the other day Alekseyev Karrde > 80man fleet locked us down for hours Sick Boy > i dont mind paying kill NC everwhere for a week but what numbers are we talking about Alekseyev Karrde > 4.925 bn atm Alekseyev Karrde > can round that to an even 4.9 Sick Boy > ....... Alekseyev Karrde > we'll keep at it tho Sick Boy > total damage right? Alekseyev Karrde > 50% of total Sick Boy > ............................................ Sick Boy > you're trying to tell me Sick Boy > 50% of damage Sick Boy > is 4.9 billion Sick Boy > and its not aprils fools? Alekseyev Karrde > 2009.10.14 01:48<br>well there is a specific target, we want everyone killed in this system or surrounding systems. so when you ready to start the campaign, have the men move to x-7omu our home system. we basically want all of the kills done within 2 ju... Alekseyev Karrde > 2009.10.14 01:43<br>sounds like fun. 150m upfront, 50% damage on completion. Default is a week, if we exceed your budget let me know and we'll end early Sick Boy > u never Sick Boy > mentioned Sick Boy > anyting to me Sick Boy > about what my budget was Sick Boy > or updated me Sick Boy > on what the price was Sick Boy > at Sick Boy > so ur saying Sick Boy > total dmage Sick Boy > is 10 billion isk right now? Alekseyev Karrde > kb is public, i assumed you'd keep tabs on us. Alekseyev Karrde > it's close Alekseyev Karrde > we'll prob break it by the end of the night Sick Boy > and you're expecting to be paid 5 billion isk thats really Sick Boy > not reasonable at all Sick Boy > or do we even have that much or even close Sick Boy > u better stop the campaign now Sick Boy > because thats insane Sick Boy > our budget was 2 billion isk Alekseyev Karrde > :S Sick Boy > at most able to pay you Alekseyev Karrde > would have liked to known that Alekseyev Karrde > ahead of time Sick Boy > 5 billino is not ev en like Alekseyev Karrde > like when you mailed me Sick Boy > close to as much as we ahve Alekseyev Karrde > ok we'll suspend. Alekseyev Karrde > we can work something out with you, part 3 coming --- Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:38:00 - [6] Alek if you log in and out twice you can bypass the timer ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM
Sick Boy Minmatar Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:38:00 - [7] this dood starts the campaign on friday, its TUESDAY, and he wants me to pay him 6 billion isk for 4 days work vs the ENTIRE nc when we only hired him to attack one specific alliance. i offered to pay him 2 billion isk and stop the campaign immediately and he won't take it. f that. over 1 billion per day? thats INSANE INSANE, disgraceful for him to even ask for that much. i still cant believe he was serious about that amount. final stand at 1 billion a week is legit and fair, 6 billion for 4 days???? NO WAY will I ever pay such an insane amount, ****ed me off and i dont get mad easy....
MC Purge	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:43:00 - [8] Originally by: Sick Boy this dood starts the campaign on friday, its TUESDAY, and he wants me to pay him 6 billion isk for 4 days work vs the ENTIRE nc when we only hired him to attack one specific alliance. i offered to pay him 2 billion isk and stop the campaign immediately and he won't take it. f that. over 1 billion per day? thats INSANE INSANE, disgraceful for him to even ask for that much. i still cant believe he was serious about that amount. final stand at 1 billion a week is legit and fair, 6 billion for 4 days???? NO WAY will I ever pay such an insane amount, **ed me off and i dont get mad easy.... Maybe you shouldn't have agreed to the terms then. It's not noir's fault that they ed ** up.
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:43:00 - [9] Originally by: Sick Boy this dood starts the campaign on friday, its TUESDAY, and he wants me to pay him 6 billion isk for 4 days work vs the ENTIRE nc when we only hired him to attack one specific alliance. i offered to pay him 2 billion isk and stop the campaign immediately and he won't take it. f that. over 1 billion per day? thats INSANE INSANE, disgraceful for him to even ask for that much. i still cant believe he was serious about that amount. final stand at 1 billion a week is legit and fair, 6 billion for 4 days???? NO WAY will I ever pay such an insane amount, **ed me off and i dont get mad easy.... Hmm, allow me to not side with the worst -talking, chest beating (without actually having accomplished anything, at that) alliance out there atm. Not to mention you can't even form a coherent paragraph in your defense. ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM**
Alekseyev Karrde Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:43:00 - [10] Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 11/11/2009 09:44:36 Sick Boy > we figured 2 billion Sick Boy > would be enough Sick Boy > we dont have any collateral , we arent rich Alekseyev Karrde > carrier or something? Sick Boy > we are not arich alliance Alekseyev Karrde > I'll give you a break but over 50% unpaid is unacceptable Sick Boy > we have Sick Boy > well then i dont know what to tell you Sick Boy > that price is completely Sick Boy > a disgrace Sick Boy > 6 bilion isk Sick Boy > for 1 week? Sick Boy > its like ur joking Alekseyev Karrde > you agreed to it dude Sick Boy > completely ridiculous Alekseyev Karrde > you wanted to hire the best merc corp to come out and kick the ** out of the place and i only charged you for what we did Sick Boy > well i was trying to be nice Sick Boy > 6 billion isk Alekseyev Karrde > if i had known you had a 2bn budget i would have stopped then Sick Boy > is insane Sick Boy > and that only Alekseyev Karrde > it's not 6b Sick Boy > for not even Sick Boy > a full week Sick Boy > its only tuesday Sick Boy > and you trying to rip us off is now ing me off so you guys might have just got a new contract. please reset us immediatly Alekseyev Karrde > never heard someone complain we work too fast hehe. Look Sick, i'm not trying to be a *** but you made a contract with us [Sick leaves] [new convo by me to talk him down] Alekseyev Karrde > calm down dude, you dont want to go down that road Sick Boy > dood we've fought everyone ok we had PL in our system for 3 months Sick Boy > ur threats can kiss our ass we've Sick Boy > dealt with the worst Sick Boy > ur completely Sick Boy > an asss Sick Boy > 6 billion Sick Boy > insane Sick Boy > 2 billion Sick Boy > was GENEROUS Sick Boy > and you threaten now? Sick Boy > i thoguht u were better then that Alekseyev Karrde > not threatening you Alekseyev Karrde > you're overreacting Sick Boy > whaever man, youve been reset Alekseyev Karrde > you're the one who's scamming me hah Sick Boy > come at us Sick Boy > if you one Sick Boy > oh ya Sick Boy > oh ya Sick Boy > im scamming u Sick Boy > ok Sick Boy > ya ---- SO yeah, there it goes. 4.9 is the amount owed, i would have accepted 2bn if it was offered in seriousness but as you can see Sick probably never intended to pay us our fair wage in the first place. If you're a merc corp i would strongly caution against being hired by above mentioned scammer or his alliance. If you would like to join us in taking a stand against contract breakers contact me in game. EDIT: Campaign link for those interested --- Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam

John Caffeine Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:43:00 - [11] I don't see how Noir. can do anything but start attacking M'K assets until at least 5B worth of stuff (after insurance) is destroyed. You guys need to make an example of this.
Count MonteCarlo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:46:00 - [12] How the hell can an alliance leader not afford 5b?
Hallan Turrek Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:46:00 - [13] Edited by: Hallan Turrek on 11/11/2009 09:46:20 Originally by: Sick Boy i offered to pay him 2 billion isk and stop the campaign immediately and he won't take it. So wait, you sent him the cash and he sent it back? Really? This is going to be fun. ________________________________________ A merry life and a short one shall be my motto. Bartholomew Roberts Check out my blog.
Sick Boy Minmatar Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Count MonteCarlo How the hell can an alliance leader not afford 5b? its TUESDAY count, 5billion for 4 days work? That's insane man. No way would a person of sound mind agree to that
Ezien	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:48:00 - [15] Well, Sick Boy agreed to the terms and that is that. Offering a 50% reduction in fees was generous, but he completey flipped out in those convos. Will be watching Noir's KB to see if someone gets their **** wrecked. (link for the lazy)
Novemb3r The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:50:00 - [16] Originally by: Sick Boy Originally by: Count MonteCarlo How the hell can an alliance leader not afford 5b? its TUESDAY count, 5billion for 4 days work? That's insane man. No way would a person of sound mind agree to that So you admit you are not sound of mind? No wonder you thought you were beating PL -
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Sick Boy No way would a person of sound mind agree to that It's funny because you agreed to it. ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM
Count MonteCarlo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:52:00 - [18] Then you shouldn't of hired a merc corp and agreed to those terms, and 5b isn't that much tbh, but I came to the conclusion you and your alliance was idiots after our engagements so I'm not surprised at all
Raiiden Gallente Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:54:00 - [19] just reading the logs you posted, it looks like what you tried to do there is called extortion. jus sayn' One image per signature please. Zymurgist
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:56:00 - [20] Originally by: Raiiden just reading the logs you posted, it looks like what you tried to do there is called extortion. I'd be glad for that tbh, you prolly wouldnt want them to resort to pillaging and burning **** to the ground

The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Raiiden just reading the logs you posted, it looks like what you tried to do there is called extortion. jus sayn' I just read the post you posted, it looks like what you tried to do there is called damage control. jus sayn' Fake Edit: Can anybody in your alliance form a proper english sentence? ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM
Hallan Turrek Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:58:00 - [22] Rule One: Pillage, then burn. ________________________________________ A merry life and a short one shall be my motto. Bartholomew Roberts Check out my blog.
Sikoras Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:59:00 - [23] tbh mate your an idiot. you basically hired the best merc corp and never menioned your budget. that puts you in the wrong and basically points you out as being a scammer. if your gonna fail dont do it against NOIR. you have ****ed yourself over
Raiiden Gallente Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:08:00 - [24] O NOES! now Im really scared. we really f***d this one up. and I should be, its gonna be a nightmare trying to jam all those Noir corpses into my giant secure. PL pilots are fat what do you think we are? noobs to life? nobody is gonna extort my alliance like that. One image per signature please. Zymurgist
MC Purge	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:08:00 - [25] Originally by: Sikoras Edited by: Sikoras on 11/11/2009 10:05:46 tbh mate your an idiot. you basically hired the best merc corp and never menioned your budget. that puts you in the wrong and basically points you out as being a scammer. if your gonna fail dont do it against NOIR. you have ****ed yourself over edit: NOIR mind posting or chucking me an eve mail in game as to where they are based as shooting some complete tools will be fun You can find what is left of their fail cascade alliance docked in X-7 in Pure Blind
Count MonteCarlo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:12:00 - [26] lol
MrChook THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:12:00 - [27] I will be sure to bring this disgrace to the members of TFS. Might be time we visited X-7 again for a little holiday.
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Raiiden what do you think we are? noobs to life? Originally by: The'Best Hellfury Can anybody in your alliance form a proper english sentence? Guess not ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM
Miyamoto Isoruku Caldari The Phoenix Enclave	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:15:00 - [29] Edited by: Miyamoto Isoruku on 11/11/2009 10:23:33 Originally by: John Caffeine I don't see how Noir. can do anything but start attacking M'K assets until at least 5B worth of stuff (after insurance) is looted. You guys need to make an example of this. FTFY EDIT: I just had to respond to this juicy piece of idiocy. Originally by: Raiiden just reading the logs you posted, it looks like what you tried to do there is called extortion. jus sayn' Looks like your alliance broke a contract entered into in good faith. I'd say Noir. is just trying to get back the ISK you promised them--and that they're going to take it out of your hide. That's what typically happens when one stiffs a merc corp--which is why doing so is typically a very bad idea. Oh, and don't be surprised if half of C+P decides to take a field trip up to your space to help out. You may not have noticed, but we look out for our own, in our own sick, perverse way. Just sayin'.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:16:00 - [30] Originally by: Raiiden just reading the logs you posted, it looks like what you tried to do there is called extortion. jus sayn' Maybe you missed this part: "2009.10.14 01:43 sounds like fun. 150m upfront, 50% damage on completion. Default is a week, if we exceed your budget let me know and we'll end early" Jesus, how much more reasonable do you want it?

The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:17:00 - [31] Originally by: Count MonteCarlo lol All of the 1337 chestbeaters have negative efficiency on their own (lolgriefwatch) killboard. PS - Thank you Alek for not posting this in CAOD, now I can actually troll these retards. ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM
Count MonteCarlo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:21:00 - [32] This fight looks awesome, the Abso's pilot name fits in perfectly!
Sir Morgan Temporal War	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:25:00 - [33] I don't see anything wrong with that Contract to be honest. They destroyed 9 billion ISK in 4 days, it's just bad luck for Maru Ka'ge that Noir came accros this fellow here: Linkage Taking this kill asside, I would say it would be fair to pay at least 3.5 bil ISK to Noir and solve this dispute.
Cheer Up	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:26:00 - [34] wow Sick Boy you really are a sick boy to even think about messing with those guys. as i see it you have 2 choices left: - convo aleks, get down on your knees and work something out to pay your bill - quit eve
RedSplat Noir.	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:27:00 - [35] Wow. Well, my personal opinion (and not that of Noir) is that: Maru Kage will have serious issues trying to hire any competent merc corp in this game ever again. Its a close knit business and everyone keeps tabs on everyone else- we might have to fight them next week on contract after all. An alliance not being able to afford 4.9 bil is very odd. I would expect foul play from the outset but its best to give people the benefit of a doubt here. Personally, i think it would be perfectly justified to scrap our R&R and take a pro bono contract out on Maru Kage. But then I've had to resist the urge to pounce on every blue ratter meandering round the target area without a scout so i guess I'm not being entirely rational there. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Tierie Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:29:00 - [36] This isn't cool Should be fun, at least.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:31:00 - [37] well this feels like a 1930¦ turn of events at 250kph \o/ dealing this, it shall be. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
kra torii United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:34:00 - [38] :Maru'Kage: Oh man, this thread deserves some popcorn. Nice one, Noir. :griefwotchit:
Daniel Ogden	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:35:00 - [39] The 2 Bln offer was a serious offer. Nobody is trying to scam anyone here. We came to Noir because they have a great reputation. Clearly the effort Noir put into chasing down all the NC pilots in the area was not taken into account due to the fact that we were all on the same page as to who their main target was supposed to be. The figure that was mentioned was quite astonishing to be sure but I think cooler heads may still prevail.
Raiiden Gallente Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:38:00 - [40] Originally by: Miyamoto Isoruku bunch of words Miyamoto Isoruku Lifetime kills 515 Lifetime losses 284 send a better guy next time... jus sayn' harr harrrr maybe we should put some fancy merk **** in our bio One image per signature please. Zymurgist

The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:40:00 - [41] Edited by: The''Best Hellfury on 11/11/2009 10:41:27 Originally by: Raiiden Originally by: Miyamoto Isoruku bunch of words Miyamoto Isoruku Lifetime kills 515 Lifetime losses 284 send a better guy next time... jus sayn' harr harrrr maybe we should put some fancy merk ** in our bio WELP WE LOST THAT ARGUMENT LETS GO OFF ON SOME COMPLETELY RANDOM TANGENT AND START PERSONAL ATTACKS, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD PLAN. ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM**
Miyamoto Isoruku Caldari The Phoenix Enclave	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:41:00 - [42] Originally by: Daniel Ogden The 2 Bln offer was a serious offer. Nobody is trying to scam anyone here. We came to Noir because they have a great reputation. Clearly the effort Noir put into chasing down all the NC pilots in the area was not taken into account due to the fact that we were all on the same page as to who their main target was supposed to be. The figure that was mentioned was quite astonishing to be sure but I think cooler heads may still prevail. Originally by: Sick Boy when you guys are ready i want you guys to base out of ROIR and kill Everyone in that system and camp them MK agreed to pay Noir. 50% of all damage inflicted to kill everything in the area. Note the use of the word "everything". You owe Noir. 4.9 billion. I'd advise you and your pathetic, embarrassing excuse of an alliance pay up, and soon, or it is going to find itself in a whole world of hurt. And fire Sick Boy, while you're at it.
Alekseyev Karrde Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:41:00 - [43] Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 11/11/2009 10:42:08 Originally by: Daniel Ogden The 2 Bln offer was a serious offer. Nobody is trying to scam anyone here. We came to Noir because they have a great reputation. Clearly the effort Noir put into chasing down all the NC pilots in the area was not taken into account due to the fact that we were all on the same page as to who their main target was supposed to be. The figure that was mentioned was quite astonishing to be sure but I think cooler heads may still prevail. We did a good faith effort to kill your preferred targets when we saw them in the systems you specified, however it was explicitly 50% damage anywhere in the specified systems which i took every opportunity to remind MK leadership. If 2bn was a serious offer, my wallet awaits. As it stands, it seems rather obvious to me that Sick Boy tried to pull a fast one and that is a shame. EDIT: And to be explicit, i dont care who pays Maru's bill as long as it gets paid. --- Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam
John Caffeine Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:42:00 - [44] Cooler heads should stay out of this. It's a spaceship pewpew-game. Unless Noir. wants to look like fools letting MK off the hook, they should already be making plans for a proper revenge. Gogo internet spaceship mercenaries!
Vinhod Arkar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:42:00 - [45] Neutral observation. The killboard counts dropped loot in the total isk damage. That seems to inflate the numbers, in my opinion. I think sick boy didn't realise what he was signing up for, or chose not to realise, but if you looked at isk destroyed, without counting isk value dropped you might find a more attainable payout value. Just playing armchair diplomat on a situation that I have no monetary interest in. :)
kra torii United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:42:00 - [46] Edited by: kra torii on 11/11/2009 10:43:58 Originally by: Raiiden Originally by: Miyamoto Isoruku bunch of words Miyamoto Isoruku Lifetime kills 515 Lifetime losses 284 send a better guy next time... jus sayn' harr harrrr maybe we should put some fancy merk **** in our bio I'm sorry your parents forgot to send you to school, but please get some basic comprehension skills (or a spell checker, at least) I thought my grasp on the English language was bad e: ok, I failed at a burn with my own language errors. Meh~
Nathan Harrow Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:45:00 - [47] two things i cant stand in life... Water Melon flavoured Jolly Ranchers and cheap 0.0 alliances who default on payments... Id suggest getting a loan and paying up otherwise you stand to lose a lot more than 5bill isk in assets... What goes around comes around... ------------------------- Quote: You know what the chain of command is? Its a chain i go get and beat you with till you understand whose in ruttin' command here...
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:45:00 - [48] Originally by: Raiiden Originally by: Miyamoto Isoruku bunch of words Miyamoto Isoruku Lifetime kills 515 Lifetime losses 284 send a better guy next time... jus sayn' harr harrrr maybe we should put some fancy merk ** in our bio Originally by:** Maru Ka'ge 4038 kills, 4456 losses, and -3311 points Join a better alliance next time, just sayin' PS: maybe if your alliance wasn't so outright terrible you wouldn't need to hire mercs against the NC in the first place. ---
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:46:00 - [49] Originally by: Nathan Harrow two things i cant stand in life... Water Melon flavoured Jolly Ranchers The ** is wrong with you? ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM**
Grimrian Roevhuller i Rummet	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:52:00 - [50] Hmm.. Noir. gets hired to shoot EVERYTHING in some target systems by sick suck boy... Sick suck boy agrees to the contract and set payment figures, gets told to mention if budget is exceeded.. Sick suck boy now thinks its way too expensive and unfair of Noir. DUUUDE, YOU STUPID ON THE FACE??? Just remember sick suck: If you go to bed with itchy ass, you wake up with smelly fingers..

The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:53:00 - [51] Edited by: The''Best Hellfury on 11/11/2009 10:53:16 Quote: 4038 kills, 4456 losses, and -3311 points ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM
kra torii United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:54:00 - [52] Originally by: Grimrian If you go to bed with itchy ass, you wake up with smelly fingers.. Speaking from experience or...?
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:58:00 - [53] Originally by: Grimrian Hmm.. Noir. gets hired to shoot EVERYTHING in some target systems by sick suck boy... Sick suck boy agrees to the contract and set payment figures, gets told to mention if budget is exceeded.. Sick suck boy now thinks its way too expensive and unfair of Noir. DUUUDE, YOU STUPID ON THE FACE??? Just remember sick suck: If you go to bed with itchy ass, you wake up with smelly fingers.. Nice Post. Battlestars alt or Maru Ka'ge alt? ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM
MrChook THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.	Posted - 2009.11.11 11:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Maru Ka'ge 4038 kills, 4456 losses, and -3311 points Because it can't be repeated often enough...
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.11 11:03:00 - [55] Originally by: MrChook Originally by: Maru Ka'ge 4038 kills, 4456 losses, and -3311 points Because it can't be repeated often enough... ---
Grimrian Roevhuller i Rummet	Posted - 2009.11.11 11:03:00 - [56] Originally by: The'Best Hellfury Nice Post. Battlestars alt or Maru Ka'ge alt? Uhm... Wut?? I think you called the wrong number? Now i got you on the phone though, want to buy some fish?
YapYup Gallente Top Station M.U.T.I.N.Y.	Posted - 2009.11.11 11:04:00 - [57] ...surprise surprise
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 11:05:00 - [58] Edited by: The''Best Hellfury on 11/11/2009 11:04:52 Quote: 4038 kills, 4456 losses, and -3311 points ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM
Count MonteCarlo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.11 11:11:00 - [59] Check the date of my post, it just needs to be 2011
Daniel Ogden	Posted - 2009.11.11 11:13:00 - [60] Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 11/11/2009 10:42:08 Originally by: Daniel Ogden The 2 Bln offer was a serious offer. Nobody is trying to scam anyone here. We came to Noir because they have a great reputation. Clearly the effort Noir put into chasing down all the NC pilots in the area was not taken into account due to the fact that we were all on the same page as to who their main target was supposed to be. The figure that was mentioned was quite astonishing to be sure but I think cooler heads may still prevail. We did a good faith effort to kill your preferred targets when we saw them in the systems you specified, however it was explicitly 50% damage anywhere in the specified systems which i took every opportunity to remind MK leadership. If 2bn was a serious offer, my wallet awaits. As it stands, it seems rather obvious to me that Sick Boy tried to pull a fast one and that is a shame. EDIT: And to be explicit, i dont care who pays Maru's bill as long as it gets paid. First let me apologize for any incoherent posts by others. Allow me to summarize. I don't think anybody is arguing the specific language of the contract. However, you did know our intended target which is less than 10% of your bill. 5 bil to run around stomping the people we enjoy fighting just doesn't make sense. The logs clearly show that we wanted ROIR camped. It wasn't. You knew full well what our intent was. The target we hired you for had no problem moving their assets out with ease whilst you guys were busy running up our bill as high as possible in adjacent systems. Being a merc corp I understand why you were doing that but we feel that you did brush aside the primary target in order to increase the bill. I believe this is where our disconnect is. Again, the 2 bln was a serious offer and there was no intent to scam anyone. I can see where you are coming from, and the contract is indeed clear. That being said, it *seems* from our perspective that you had no intention of putting the effort where we wanted and intended it to be. It *seems* that you used the contract to maximize your profit while making no attempt to please the customer and achieve our goals for the contract. I can understand why you think you are getting screwed, now look at it objectively and try and understand why we feel the same way. 5 bln just isn't acceptable when you knew what our objectives were and you *seemingly* turned a blind eye to them.

Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.11 11:16:00 - [61] Sniping page three with this; lol ---
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 11:16:00 - [62] Originally by: Count MonteCarlo Check the date of my post, it just needs to be 2011 n1 ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM
Hallan Turrek Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 11:53:00 - [63] Originally by: Daniel Ogden I can understand why you think you are getting screwed, now look at it objectively and try and understand why we feel the same way. We didn't get paid. Moreso, if that's the case, why were you extending? Did you ever intend to pay? I mean we will get paid, one way or another. We're not threatening or extorting you, we just intend to get paid in your mods or your isk. ________________________________________ A merry life and a short one shall be my motto. Bartholomew Roberts Check out my blog.
YapYup Gallente Top Station M.U.T.I.N.Y.	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:02:00 - [64] Originally by: Nathan Harrow two things i cant stand in life... Water Melon flavoured Jolly Ranchers and cheap 0.0 alliances who default on payments... Id suggest getting a loan and paying up otherwise you stand to lose a lot more than 5bill isk in assets... What goes around comes around... M.U.T.I.N.Y. is willing to loan Sick Boy 5bil at the going interest rates.
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:02:00 - [65] Originally by: Suitonia Sniping page three with this; lol What the ** is that? ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM**
Wasp O'Ryan Gallente The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:14:00 - [66] Posting in a "dumb mercs get scammed by complete ******s" non-shocker thread.
jamminette	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:15:00 - [67] Originally by: YapYup M.U.T.I.N.Y. is willing to loan Sick Boy 5bil at the going interest rates. Lawl
Team Dresch North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:22:00 - [68] Originally by: Daniel Ogden The logs clearly show that we wanted ROIR camped. It wasn't. Quote: 2009.11.02 12:44 Np, but i'd add ROIR and all adjacent systems to your bill in addition to the X-7 + 2 jumps
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:36:00 - [69] I for one welcome C&P's new Pandemic Legion Overlords. ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM
Jogyn The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:41:00 - [70] Okay, we all know maru kage is ****s. But what is up with roirs billing system? 50% of all dmg inflicted, and judging from your killboard a bs kill is worth 200m, a hauler kill is worth 110m (a empty t1 hauler for 110m, OH RLY?) and a t3 cruisers is worth 2 billion? Clearly you have **ed up your killboard to gain more profits. I just have to ask, has any alliance agreed to pay you 50% of that? (100m for every bs kill, 55m for every hauler kill and 1000m for every t3 kill?

The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:47:00 - [71] Originally by: Jogyn Okay, we all know maru kage is ****s. But what is up with roirs billing system? 50% of all dmg inflicted, and judging from your killboard a bs kill is worth 200m, a hauler kill is worth 110m (a empty t1 hauler for 110m, OH RLY?) and a t3 cruisers is worth 2 billion? Clearly you have ed up your killboard to gain more profits. I just have to ask, has any alliance agreed to pay you 50% of that? (100m for every bs kill, 55m for every hauler kill and 1000m for every t3 kill? O is the BTLS of PL c/d? ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM**
YapYup Gallente Top Station M.U.T.I.N.Y.	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:47:00 - [72] Originally by: Jogyn Okay, we all know maru kage is ****s. But what is up with roirs billing system? 50% of all dmg inflicted, and judging from your killboard a bs kill is worth 200m, a hauler kill is worth 110m (a empty t1 hauler for 110m, OH RLY?) and a t3 cruisers is worth 2 billion? Clearly you have **ed up your killboard to gain more profits. I just have to ask, has any alliance agreed to pay you 50% of that? (100m for every bs kill, 55m for every hauler kill and 1000m for every t3 kill? Maru Ka'ge alt spy inside PL detected
Kelron Andus Paisti	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:50:00 - [73] Originally by: Jogyn Okay, we all know maru kage is ****s. But what is up with roirs billing system? 50% of all dmg inflicted, and judging from your killboard a bs kill is worth 200m, a hauler kill is worth 110m (a empty t1 hauler for 110m, OH RLY?) and a t3 cruisers is worth 2 billion? Clearly you have ed up your killboard to gain more profits. I just have to ask, has any alliance agreed to pay you 50% of that? (100m for every bs kill, 55m for every hauler kill and 1000m for every t3 kill? Rofl Sounds like Noir is a bunch of scamming piece of **s.
mothyowns teeny tiny space pirates	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:55:00 - [74] Edited by: mothyowns on 11/11/2009 12:57:00 Originally by: Jogyn Edited by: Jogyn on 11/11/2009 12:52:44 Okay, we all know maru kage are ****s. But what is up with Noirs billing system? 50% of all dmg inflicted, and judging from your killboard a bs kill is worth 200m, a hauler kill is worth 110m (a empty t1 hauler for 110m, OH RLY?) and a t3 cruisers is worth 2 billion? Clearly you have **ed up your killboard to gain more profits. I just have to ask, has any alliance agreed to pay you 50% of that? (100m for every bs kill, 55m for every hauler kill and 1000m for every t3 kill? what are you smoking? http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:56:00 - [75] In this evocative film noir, sailor Michael O'Hara (Orson Welles) is lured into a scam by a beautiful woman (Rita Hayworth) and her lawyer husband. But nothing is what is seems, and O'Hara soon finds himself on trial for murder. One Wellesian touch that I find stunning is the sequence set in a fun-house hall of mirrors. To my mind, it is among the most dazzling on film. The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:58:00 - [76] Originally by: Lady Spank In this evocative film noir, sailor Michael O'Hara (Orson Welles) is lured into a scam by a beautiful woman (Rita Hayworth) and her lawyer husband. But nothing is what is seems, and O'Hara soon finds himself on trial for murder. One Wellesian touch that I find stunning is the sequence set in a fun-house hall of mirrors. To my mind, it is among the most dazzling on film. ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM
Kan3r Blaze Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 13:01:00 - [77] Originally by: Jogyn But what is up with roirs billing system? 50% of all dmg inflicted, and judging from your killboard a bs kill is worth 200m, a hauler kill is worth 110m (a empty t1 hauler for 110m, OH RLY?) and a t3 cruisers is worth 2 billion? Please direct me to the values that are out of kilter. According to this: http://noir.pinacoderm.com/killboard/?a=about your quoted figures are some way off. We update values regularly to ensure we are not stating unrealistic figures. Our killboards factor in modules to ensure a wholly accurate measurement of isk damage inflicted. Oh, I would be very interested to see where this empty T1 hauler worth 110mil is on our killboards please. Originally by: Jogyn Clearly you have **ed up your killboard to gain more profits. This is easy to spot and would effectively discourage clients from using us, therefore please state where this is the case with links. Thanks. Originally by:** Jogyn I just have to ask, has any alliance agreed to pay you 50% of that? (100m for every bs kill, 55m for every hauler kill and 1000m for every t3 kill? I will leave this one for Alek, but as this is one of a number of 0.0 contracts I will leave you to draw your own conclusions. Declarations of War - Revisted - Home of the Noir. podcast
Lee Dalton Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 13:26:00 - [78] Originally by: Jogyn Edited by: Jogyn on 11/11/2009 12:52:44 Okay, we all know maru kage are ****s. But what is up with Noirs billing system? 50% of all dmg inflicted, and judging from your killboard a bs kill is worth 200m, a hauler kill is worth 110m (a empty t1 hauler for 110m, OH RLY?) and a t3 cruisers is worth 2 billion? Clearly you have ed up your killboard to gain more profits. I just have to ask, has any alliance agreed to pay you 50% of that? (100m for every bs kill, 55m for every hauler kill and 1000m for every t3 kill? +1 Troll. * You're only as good as your last fight.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.11.11 13:31:00 - [79] somebody is gonna get a spaaaaanking. can I bring my stealthbomber for lulz?
Natasja Podinski	Posted - 2009.11.11 13:33:00 - [80] alot of repeating urself! is that an accident or!? not good pasting. very confusing story brosef lots of repeating and whats with 5BILLION ISK did he not only owe u 150m for a week!? also lol at killing "specific" target when they want everyone to die and if he pay 150m upfront how can u exceed his budget then when he allready paid? im very cunfusing on your mistake alot hmmm 150m for a week? this is a price is very cheap my mama says it costs 7.8B isk to have tese babuschkas kill each others for 1 year and not make poast Lexa Hellfury for CSM

Cheer Up	Posted - 2009.11.11 13:40:00 - [81] Originally by: Natasja Podinski qwerty Dear Natasja Podinski, please refrain from posting on this forum again. Ever. Sincerely yours, Cheer Up
Lyer THE BLUE BEYOND	Posted - 2009.11.11 13:40:00 - [82] Originally by: Jogyn Edited by: Jogyn on 11/11/2009 12:52:44 Okay, we all know maru kage are ****s. But what is up with Noirs billing system? 50% of all dmg inflicted, and judging from your killboard a bs kill is worth 200m, a hauler kill is worth 110m (a empty t1 hauler for 110m, OH RLY?) and a t3 cruisers is worth 2 billion? Clearly you have **ed up your killboard to gain more profits. I just have to ask, has any alliance agreed to pay you 50% of that? (100m for every bs kill, 55m for every hauler kill and 1000m for every t3 kill? Surprise surprise, PL and The Illuminati, as usual, getting involved and getting it wrong. Your ego's are writing checks your intelligence just can't back up.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.11.11 13:54:00 - [83] Originally by: Lyer I just have to ask, has any alliance agreed to pay you 50% of that? (100m for every bs kill, 55m for every hauler kill and 1000m for every t3 kill? Surprise surprise, PL and The Illuminati, as usual, getting involved and getting it wrong. Your ego's are writing checks your intelligence just can't back up. Rule number 1: When insulting someone's intelligence, make sure you do not make stupid spelling mistakes. Such as using apostrophes to indicate the plural of a noun. Ego noun (s.) plural egos. Off you go now!
Lucy Oreless The Lonetrekkers Revival Of The Talocan Empire	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:00:00 - [84] Originally by: Lyer Edited by: Lyer on 11/11/2009 13:50:03 Surprise surprise, PL and The Illuminati, as usual, getting involved and getting it wrong. Your ego's are writing checks your intelligence just can't cash. If my intelligence could cash checks, i would sell my ego for ISK!
El'hith Gallente The Phoenix Enclave	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:02:00 - [85] @ Raiiden, I strongly advise you not to **** talk against my corp mates. @ Noir. Sorry to see you got stiffed guys :( 'Hith ~~~~Back from the dead! ~~~~
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:08:00 - [86] Originally by: The'Best Hellfury Originally by: Persephone Asphodel successful troll Cela rappelle le film noir, marin Michael O'Hare (Orson Welles) est attirT dans une escroquerie a partir d'une belle femme (Rita Hayworth) et son mari, un avocat. Mais rien n'est ce qu'il semble, et O'Hara se retrouve bient(t en jugement pour assassiner. Wellesien une touche que je trouve Ttonnant, c'est dTfinies dans une sTrie de fun-hall de la Chambre des miroirs. A mon avis, il est parmi les plus criantes dans le film. This recalls the film noir, sailor Michael O'Hare (Orson Welles) is lured into a scam from a beautiful woman (Rita Hayworth) and her husband, a lawyer. But nothing is as it seems, and O'Hara soon finds himself on trial for murder. Wellesian a touch that I find surprising is set in a series of fun-hall of the House of mirrors. In my opinion it is the most blatant in the film. The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Lyer THE BLUE BEYOND	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:11:00 - [87] Originally by: Helicity Boson Originally by: Lyer I just have to ask, has any alliance agreed to pay you 50% of that? (100m for every bs kill, 55m for every hauler kill and 1000m for every t3 kill? Surprise surprise, PL and The Illuminati, as usual, getting involved and getting it wrong. Your ego's are writing checks your intelligence just can't back up. Rule number 1: When insulting someone's intelligence, make sure you do not make stupid spelling mistakes. Such as using apostrophes to indicate the plural of a noun. Ego noun (s.) plural egos. Off you go now! Did you really just make a post to point out a misplaced apostrophe on an internet forum. Good God. Step away from the computer and go outside, it's a lovely day. I think the context of my post was very clear to the less Anally retentive readers of the board. Apostrophe or not. It's good you care, it really is. Without you these forums would be a mess. Thank you.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:18:00 - [88] Originally by: Persephone Asphodel successful troll Cela rappelle le film noir, marin Michael O'Hare (Orson Welles) est attirT dans une escroquerie a partir d'une belle femme (Rita Hayworth) et son mari, un avocat. Mais rien n'est ce qu'il semble, et O'Hara se retrouve bient(t en jugement pour assassiner. Wellesien une touche que je trouve Ttonnant, c'est dTfinies dans une sTrie de fun-hall de la Chambre des miroirs. A mon avis, il est parmi les plus criantes dans le film. C- Revise your last sentence, it makes no sense in it's current configuration. Also, one is put on trial either for meurtre or homicide not assassiner. Come see me after class. -Prof. Helicity
GRiMsReAPeR Amarr inFluX. M.U.T.I.N.Y.	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:23:00 - [89] See why we left Maru kage? Its bs like this. To be honest, noir. was hired against us. We already outnumbered 5:1, yet they still hired noir. to fight a war against us that we werent even a part of... alot of our time was spent trying to pick up the pieces from a long misplaced war that killed all of our wallets and spread our assets thin. We were kicked by Mk after we said we were leaving that alliance, and didnt even get 24 hours to get our assets out into roir. So soon after, MK calls a war against while we werent even at half strength, because of many missing assets that we couldnt jump out to our home, which was ROIR. Outnumbered the first fight we had against them, MK dropped carriers and so did we, we still whooped them with minimal strength and outnumbered. Sick Boy sees were this war was gonna go and continues to use caps, and then hires noir., and last night hired ANOTHER merc corp. So now, where we were outnumbered 5:1 WITHOUT mercs, it turned into 10:1. And yet mutiny, said bring it on. Then we found out the second merc contract was cancelled.... __________________________________________________ Recruitment Thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204387
Stygian Knight Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:23:00 - [90] Quote: we had PL in our system for 3 months we've dealt with the worst. ur completely an asss Priceless

Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:29:00 - [91] Edited by: Helicity Boson on 11/11/2009 14:34:47 Edited by: Helicity Boson on 11/11/2009 14:29:24 Originally by: Lyer Did you really just make a post to point out a misplaced apostrophe on an internet forum. Good God. Step away from the computer and go outside, it's a lovely day. I think the context of my post was very clear to the less Anally retentive readers of the board. Apostrophe or not. It's good you care, it really is. Without you these forums would be a mess. Thank you. Why yes, yes I did. Care to venture a guess as to why I did this heinous thing? That's right! I did it because you saw fit to come up to the stand and pretend you are a person possessed of a greater intellect than a second party, and chose to do so in a way which exposes your own chronic lack of the subject matter at hand! \o/ Secondary to that, you now attempt the classic rebuttal of "oh lord in heavens, why do you waste your time in the internet correcting me when there is a world outside to enjoy!", oblivious to the intense, and delectable, irony of posting this very message on an internet forum yourself. You augment this, with an attempted put-down, presuming to speak on behalf of all other parties, in informing me that regardless of your blatantly poor grasp of (presumably) your native tongue your message was no doubt received and my input is not of interest. You presume falsely, as my esteemed readers have no doubt concluded by now. As a great many of us are now laughing at how foolish and petty you look, a shining example of intellect you are indeed... Please. Do continue. My coffee break will last a while longer yet, and your flailing in the net which I cast for you amuses me.
ANALDESTROYR Gallente No Compromise	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:31:00 - [92] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: The'Best Hellfury Originally by: Persephone Asphodel successful troll Cela rappelle le film noir, marin Michael O'Hare (Orson Welles) est attirT dans une escroquerie a partir d'une belle femme (Rita Hayworth) et son mari, un avocat. Mais rien n'est ce qu'il semble, et O'Hara se retrouve bient(t en jugement pour assassiner. Wellesien une touche que je trouve Ttonnant, c'est dTfinies dans une sTrie de fun-hall de la Chambre des miroirs. A mon avis, il est parmi les plus criantes dans le film. This recalls the film noir, sailor Michael O'Hare (Orson Welles) is lured into a scam from a beautiful woman (Rita Hayworth) and her husband, a lawyer. But nothing is as it seems, and O'Hara soon finds himself on trial for murder. Wellesian a touch that I find surprising is set in a series of fun-hall of the House of mirrors. In my opinion it is the most blatant in the film. Это напоминает Film Noir, моряк Майкл O'Hare (Орсон Уэллс) является заманили афера от красивой женщины (Рита Хейворт) и ее муж, адвокат. Но ничего, как кажется, и О'Хары вскоре обнаружит себя по суду за убийство. Wellesian Touch, что я нахожу удивительным является набор из серии Fun-зале Дома зеркал. На мой взгляд, является наиболее вопиющим в фильме.
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:32:00 - [93] Originally by: Helicity Boson Please. Do continue. My coffee break will last a while longer yet, and your flailing in the net I which cast for you amuses me. Sorry Helicity, I just had to point this out The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:34:00 - [94] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Helicity Boson Please. Do continue. My coffee break will last a while longer yet, and your flailing in the net I which cast for you amuses me. Sorry Helicity, I just had to point this out Woe unto me, I will amend this travesty with the utmost expedience! At least it is not indicative of a general failure in comprehending the grammatical rules of this language, which is not my own!
Aalu Aullard	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:36:00 - [95] What happens to the loot from the ships Noir. kills? Just curious... There was 2 kills which make 32% of the total damage inflicted. That Tengu and there was faction fit Nighthawk also. And the Nighthawk killmail shows that the pilot is in noob corp. Noir. getting paid 1.6b for 2 kills sounds like nice deal and Maru didnt realize what they were doing. Deal is a deal is a deal though...
ANALDESTROYR Gallente No Compromise	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:36:00 - [96] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Helicity Boson Please. Do continue. My coffee break will last a while longer yet, and your flailing in the net I which cast for you amuses me. Sorry Helicity, I just had to point this out Вы использовали "your" когда вы должны использовать "you're". :/ :/ :/ Кроме того, перенесены "I" и "which". :/ :/ :/
John Caffeine Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:42:00 - [97] Originally by: ANALDESTROYR Это напоминает Film Noir, моряк Майкл O'Hare (Орсон Уэллс) является заманили афера от красивой женщины (Рита Хейворт) и ее муж, адвокат. Но ничего, как кажется, и О'Хары вскоре обнаружит себя по суду за убийство. Wellesian Touch, что я нахожу удивительным является набор из серии Fun-зале Дома зеркал. На мой взгляд, является наиболее вопиющим в фильме. I don't know what it says, but I am going to assume this is the best post so far in this thread, and would strongly encourage Noir. to go with whatever this guy says.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:52:00 - [98] Originally by: ANALDESTROYR Вы использовали "your" когда вы должны использовать "you're". :/ :/ :/ No, I did not. (unless I am blind) Your = a form of the possessive case of "you" used as an attributive adjective: Your jacket is in that closet. I like your idea. You're = contraction of "you are" I did reverse two words in the final phrase, which I will casually dismiss as the result of my coffee having more than just sugar in it.
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:55:00 - [99] Русский не является истинным без :(((((((( The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:58:00 - [100] Originally by: Lady Spank Русский не является истинным без :(((((((( You Russians and your slander! (yes your not you're ) Spank, we're ****ting up a thread again :(

Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:03:00 - [101] Edited by: Lady Spank on 11/11/2009 15:03:37 Originally by: Helicity Boson Originally by: Lady Spank Русский не является истинным без :(((((((( You Russians and your slander! (yes your not you're ) Spank, we're ****ting up a thread again :( Is that a crime? Actually good point. Let's get back on topic. GIVE NOIR THEIR MONEYS YOU CRAPHEADS The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:09:00 - [102] Originally by: Lady Spank Is that a crime? Actually good point. Let's get back on topic. GIVE NOIR THEIR MONEYS YOU CRAPHEADS I don't know, we should ask Applebabe or Stevie, preferably over some cold and delightful alcoholic beverages. ahem REGARDLESS! PAY UP, OR PAY DEARLY!
IHaveNoFace	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:28:00 - [103] Edited by: IHaveNoFace on 11/11/2009 15:28:31
Jones Bones Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:36:00 - [104] I'm kinda LOLing because Noir. thought M'K had any isk at all for 3rd parties. As much as we laugh at people to "research your mercs!", the mercs themselves should really be checking out their potential clients as well. Oh well, kill some stuffs. =================== Go Bucks!
Drakan290	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:45:00 - [105] Well. Surprising turn of events in Maru Ka'ge spacev
Miyamoto Isoruku Caldari The Phoenix Enclave	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:55:00 - [106] Originally by: El'hith @ Raiiden, I strongly advise you not to **** talk against my corp mates. @ Noir. Sorry to see you got stiffed guys :( Oh Hith, you don't need to stick up for me, you big, strong, manly man you!
Sahaquiel Faust Gallente Duty.	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:13:00 - [107] Protip: For long healthy life, do not scam Noir. We fought them back in the days of MXD, when they were with Trinity Nova, and one thing we learnt is that these guys are consumate professionals, good mercenaries, and all-around people you don't want to screw over. -----
Benedict Carol	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:15:00 - [108] Originally by: Jones Bones I'm kinda LOLing because Noir. thought M'K had any isk at all for 3rd parties. As much as we laugh at people to "research your mercs!", the mercs themselves should really be checking out their potential clients as well. Oh well, kill some stuffs. This, 100% this. I find it exceedingly difficult to believe that a merc group like Noir didn't do their homework. That said, it doesn't void the contract - this puny group of idiots should have specified their limit, especially if as he said they had these folks in their system for 3 months flying faction fitted Tengus. Pay up, or I suspect that anyone Noir will allow will hop in this for some fun.
James Tritanius	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:15:00 - [109] Is there currently anything done by Noir or MK to resolve this situation? Everything seems to be at a stand-still judging from the posts so far (No updates in hours).
Kitimortoa	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:25:00 - [110] LOL sick boy, you said kill everyone, don't tell noir to kill everyone and not expect it to get expensive quickly. Either give them a specific target first if that's your intent, but don't say "kill everyone" and not expect to have to pay a lot...for ****'s sake, if they tell you 50% of damage is your bill, you better damn well be watching their kb like a hawk, you didn't hire a bunch of n00bs you know... ...dumbass...I have a feeling lots more than your 2bn is about to be lost lol...

kra torii United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:43:00 - [111] Look at all this delightful trolling in here. I might go get some popcorn.
Elldranga	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:46:00 - [112] Originally by: Sick Boy Originally by: Count MonteCarlo How the hell can an alliance leader not afford 5b? its TUESDAY count, 5billion for 4 days work? That's insane man. No way would a person of sound mind agree to that AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA given that he DID agree to the price, he just insulted himself.
The PitBoss Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.11 17:09:00 - [113] Hmmmmm ... Interesting .... Thank-You, The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss) Signatures by: Kalen Vox
Nidhiesk	Posted - 2009.11.11 17:18:00 - [114] Although I hate merc corps (especially Noir.). I have to agree with Alek. Pay up MK. Its really that simple. Noir. did the work and Alek did say it. From that point its up to Maru to look at the killboard and make the contract stop if it does exceed. Also theres no ISK limit from MK. I really think if that was said from the beginning the whole thing could of been avoided. Look: ====== 2009.10.14 01:43 sounds like fun. 150m upfront, 50% damage on completion. Default is a week, if we exceed your budget let me know and we'll end early That seems simple enough. But I really have to say if that is the contract...its too general. Not enough details. Enough that theres nothing the customer to come back at Noir. in this example. I could go on why and how but I really think Noir. can come up with a "better" outlined contract system. In conclusion, pay up MK Noir. deserved this one. P.s: I didn't look at killboard and I won't ----------- at first i was like and then i was like and then we got to the shower scene and i was like and then i was like
Awesome Possum Imperium Signal Corps	Posted - 2009.11.11 17:31:00 - [115] Now is an absolutely horrible time for me to be without a computer to run EVE :( ♥ Noir. Explode 'em good. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Kan3r Blaze Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 17:34:00 - [116] Originally by: James Tritanius Is there currently anything done by Noir or MK to resolve this situation? Everything seems to be at a stand-still judging from the posts so far (No updates in hours). From a Noir. standpoint we are keeping quiet until Alek is online. As the contract manager and CEO he is really the only person that can call the shots on this, or negotiate further with MK. Declarations of War - Revisted - Home of the Noir. podcast
Doddy The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.11 17:40:00 - [117] To be honest the only issue i see with the amount due is that t1 fully insurable battleship hulls which are essentially free to the target in the current market (due to insurance) count as full value for damage inflicted. Losing a raven hull does not inflict 120mil damage on the target unless the pilot forgot to insure it (unlikely, esp in 0.0) and if i was hiring mercenaries on a damage dealt basis i would want that taken into account(and would say so). Other than that MK don't really have a leg to stand on after giving such a vague contract.
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.11 17:42:00 - [118] Originally by: Awesome Possum Now is an absolutely horrible time for me to be without a computer to run EVE :( Join the club. I have the computer but not the Internets (shiptoasting at work only abloo bloo). NOIR do not need to make contracts that work against themselves... thats up to the other party to establish terms clearly. I assume this is under diplomatic negotiation atm since the updates have held off... or maybe everyone has to work hard IRL (like I am). The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Schwa88 Red Federation	Posted - 2009.11.11 17:46:00 - [119] Edited by: Schwa88 on 11/11/2009 17:46:07 TL;DR sick boy is mad because noir. is more awesome than he thought... just about ~3bil isk more awesome
Lyris Nairn Caldari Yakiya Tovil-Toba Memorial Foundation	Posted - 2009.11.11 17:50:00 - [120] Is this a good spot for the pvp fit scorpion capable of warp jamming and energy drain? Death is assured. Vote Aleks for CSM. -- Quite possibly the nicest person who'd ever want to kill you.

Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:03:00 - [121] Originally by: Lyris Nairn Is this a good spot for the pvp fit scorpion capable of warp jamming and energy drain? Death is assured. Vote Aleks for CSM. I see your scorpion, and I raise you a trimarked armor plated neuting, scramming, double-injected, bait-raven for luring overconfident proteus pirates to their doom.
Awesome Possum Imperium Signal Corps	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:04:00 - [122] I HAVE 17 MILLION, CAN I HELP? this is game BECAUSE OF FALCON vote for Alek THIS SHALL BE DEALT WITH which way did he go george, which way did he go? ...oh and that new protus one. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
GRiMsReAPeR Amarr inFluX. M.U.T.I.N.Y.	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:04:00 - [123] i see your scorpian, shaking that a$$, shakin that a$$ __________________________________________________ Recruitment Thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204387
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:07:00 - [124] Do what you want 'cause a Scorpion is free, you are a Scorpion! Yar - har - fiddle-dee-dee, being a Scorpion is all right to be! Do what you want 'cause a Scorpion is free, you are a Scorpion! You are a Scorpion! (Yay!) We got us a map (a map!) to lead us to a hidden box, Thats all locked up with locks (with locks!) and buried deep away. We'll dig up the box (the box!), we know it's full of precious booty Burst open the locks, and then we'll say 'HOORAY!' Yar - har - fiddle-dee-dee, If you love to sail the sea, you are a Scorpion! WEIGH ANCHOR! Yah - har - fiddle-dee-dee, being a Scorpion is all right to be! Do what you want 'cause a Scorpion is free, you are a Scorpion! Arr - yarr - ahoy and avast, dig in the dirt and you dig in it fast! Hang the black flag at the end of the mast! You are a Scorpion! HA HA HA (Yay!) We're sailing away (set sail!), adventure waits on every shore! We set sail and explore (ya-har!) and run and jump all day (Yay!) We float on our boat (our boat!) until its time to drop the anchor, Then hang up our coats (aye-aye!) until we sail again! Yar - har - fiddle-dee-dee, If you love to sail the sea you are a Scorpion! LAND HO! Yar - har - fiddle-dee-dee, being a Scorpion is alright with me! Do what you want 'cause a Scorpion is free, you are a Scorpion! Yar har wind at your back lads, wherever you go! Blue sky above and blue ocean below, you are a Scorpion! HA HA HA! You are a Scorpion! The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Benedict Carol	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:10:00 - [125] Originally by: Helicity Boson Originally by: Lyris Nairn Is this a good spot for the pvp fit scorpion capable of warp jamming and energy drain? Death is assured. Vote Aleks for CSM. I see your scorpion, and I raise you a trimarked armor plated neuting, scramming, double-injected, bait-raven for luring overconfident proteus pirates to their doom. WTF IS PROTUS?
Jolla Skyia	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:12:00 - [126] No offense to Noir, but why the hell would you take a contract from these raving idiots anyway? M'K make the average goon forum post look like a literary master piece. These M'K guys, are total **ing idiots and just looking at the COAD forum over the last two months should be enough to see that. How anyone would suspect they actually had any ISK is beyond me. I'm actually surprised people haven't had enough of their useless form dribble and just taken turns camping their station til they all emo rage quit. BTW.. Who is this "Daniel Ogden" guy? He can't actually be in M'K. There is no **ing way he is in their alliance, as he can actually compose a proper sentence. He must be sick boys dad trying just to bail jr out of problems or something.
RedSplat Noir.	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:16:00 - [127] Originally by: Doddy Losing a raven hull does not inflict 120mil damage on the target unless the pilot forgot to insure it (unlikely, esp in 0.0) and if i was hiring mercenaries on a damage dealt basis i would want that taken into account(and would say so) Okay, looking at that as an aside, Contract was for 50% of damage done. I can see what you mention being an issue is we were after 100% of damage done. Further, every Noir. loss is a Tech 2 ship to the best of my knowledge, so we don't ever get insurance in situations our victims will. If you subtract our losses (+10% to represent market fluctuations and ammo use) from the 50% of damages done determining payment the figures are considerably smaller; by about half MK's 2bn Merc budget if i recall correctly. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Erichk Knaar Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:25:00 - [128] Originally by: Doddy To be honest the only issue i see with the amount due is that t1 fully insurable battleship hulls which are essentially free to the target in the current market (due to insurance) count as full value for damage inflicted. Losing a raven hull does not inflict 120mil damage on the target unless the pilot forgot to insure it (unlikely, esp in 0.0) and if i was hiring mercenaries on a damage dealt basis i would want that taken into account(and would say so). Other than that MK don't really have a leg to stand on after giving such a vague contract. srs post, There are a lot of things wrong with the way most killboards available today work, from the perspective of calculating true damage done. We are looking into building a better mousetrap, so to speak, but its a ways off. I've personally always wanted a fairer assessment of actual strain inflicted on the enemy, but its difficult without knowing whether a ship was insured or not. sort of the same as knowing what a pod was worth. You have to extrapolate based on age, performance (its usually easy to tell if a pod had snakes, for example) and all sorts of other details not revealed in the current system. A working extension to the contract system, allowing isk to placed in escrow until a set of conditions held true would solve these kinds of issues, as well, although, I get the feeling this particular situation will get very lol.
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:30:00 - [129] I guess the Credit Crunch is affecting Maru Ka'ges ability to buy PLEX. ---
Smiling Menace Gallente Crimson Paradox	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:39:00 - [130] Originally by: Helicity Boson Edited by: Helicity Boson on 11/11/2009 14:34:47 Edited by: Helicity Boson on 11/11/2009 14:29:24 Originally by: Lyer Did you really just make a post to point out a misplaced apostrophe on an internet forum. Good God. Step away from the computer and go outside, it's a lovely day. I think the context of my post was very clear to the less Anally retentive readers of the board. Apostrophe or not. It's good you care, it really is. Without you these forums would be a mess. Thank you. Why yes, yes I did. Care to venture a guess as to why I did this heinous thing? That's right! I did it because you saw fit to come up to the stand and pretend you are a person possessed of a greater intellect than a second party, and chose to do so in a way which exposes your own chronic lack of the subject matter at hand! \o/ Secondary to that, you now attempt the classic rebuttal of "oh lord in heavens, why do you waste your time in the internet correcting me when there is a world outside to enjoy!", oblivious to the intense, and delectable, irony of posting this very message on an internet forum yourself. You augment this, with an attempted put-down, presuming to speak on behalf of all other parties, in informing me that regardless of your blatantly poor grasp of (presumably) your native tongue your message was no doubt received and my input is not of interest. You presume falsely, as my esteemed readers have no doubt concluded by now. As a great many of us are now laughing at how foolish and petty you look, a shining example of intellect you are indeed... Please. Do continue. My coffee break will last a while longer yet, and your flailing in the net which I cast for you amuses me. You are aware you both spelt 'cheque' wrong? Sorry to interrupt, carry on....

ChinaWillGrowLarger Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:41:00 - [131] Thread is worth it for the spelling Bee Mafia alone. My Mitnal lies over the ocean My Mitnal lies over the sea My Mitnal lies over the ocean Oh bring back my Mitnal to me
Vladimmire	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:43:00 - [132] Originally by: Doddy To be honest the only issue i see with the amount due is that t1 fully insurable battleship hulls which are essentially free to the target in the current market (due to insurance) count as full value for damage inflicted. Losing a raven hull does not inflict 120mil damage on the target unless the pilot forgot to insure it (unlikely, esp in 0.0) and if i was hiring mercenaries on a damage dealt basis i would want that taken into account(and would say so). Other than that MK don't really have a leg to stand on after giving such a vague contract. As we all know, another factor not included on any killboard is the damage dealt to targets from podding. If you look at our stats on pod kills, and combine that with the number of begging, screaming, hatemailing pod targets we've prosecuted, I can gaurantee you that the isk value of the implants we've destroyed is huge. We've got one dictor pilot, who shall remain nameless, who laughs with glee as he pops a new bubble each time to nab a pod. I'd wager isk the sick b$tard is only playing the game with one hand when he does it.
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:47:00 - [133] I'm sure if Sick Boy was actually genuinely interested in honoring his contract he could have contacted Noir. and worked out those little details like insurance. ---
Bai ZongTong HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:47:00 - [134] Originally by: Count MonteCarlo Check the date of my post, it just needs to be 2011 lol n1 HYDRA RELOADED 2009: APPLY TODAY. JOIN THE WINNING SIDE.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:48:00 - [135] Originally by: Vladimmire We've got one dictor pilot, who shall remain nameless, who laughs with glee as he pops a new bubble each time to nab a pod. I'd wager isk the sick b$tard is only playing the game with one hand when he does it. don't talk about him like that man, he's a cool guy --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
jimmyjam Gallente Sinner Among Saints Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:59:00 - [136] Confirming this wont be delt with.
BloodSoaked Goddess Amarr THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:09:00 - [137] I hate to say I told you so Alek, but at the very time he hired you "I told you so" Maru Ka'ge are trash and sick boy is a sociopath. As always you have our support. _-.~Nemo Me Impune Lacessit~.-_
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:13:00 - [138] I would like to hire Noir. Mercenary Group to crush Maru'Kage. Primary target is Sick Boy. I will pay you .01 isk per unit of honour restored. Maximum honour cannot exceed 9001. You have my terms, please now to accept. The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Vladimmire	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:15:00 - [139] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Vladimmire We've got one dictor pilot, who shall remain nameless, who laughs with glee as he pops a new bubble each time to nab a pod. I'd wager isk the sick b$tard is only playing the game with one hand when he does it. don't talk about him like that man, he's a cool guy Are you kidding? When he laughs like that he's my idol :)
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:25:00 - [140] Of course this happens while my PC is doing its best impression of a plastic cinderblock. shakes tiny fist Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast

Orb Lati Minmatar ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:26:00 - [141] Originally by: Doddy To be honest the only issue i see with the amount due is that t1 fully insurable battleship hulls which are essentially free to the target in the current market (due to insurance) count as full value for damage inflicted. Losing a raven hull does not inflict 120mil damage on the target unless the pilot forgot to insure it (unlikely, esp in 0.0) and if i was hiring mercenaries on a damage dealt basis i would want that taken into account(and would say so). Other than that MK don't really have a leg to stand on after giving such a vague contract. Im going to get in trouble for this, but what the hell. In their defence the contract was "50% damage on completion" and not "50% damage inflicted" however, to go all internet lawyer and argue for argument sake, is the 50% applicable? The contract was terminated before the minimum period was complete. Is the contract considered "complete"? Argument being no early completion clause was agreed on, so when Sick Boy said they wouldn't pay, Noir would still need to finish the contract period for the 50% fee to apply? "We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible"
Awesome Possum Imperium Signal Corps	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:30:00 - [142] Originally by: Orb Lati Originally by: Doddy To be honest the only issue i see with the amount due is that t1 fully insurable battleship hulls which are essentially free to the target in the current market (due to insurance) count as full value for damage inflicted. Losing a raven hull does not inflict 120mil damage on the target unless the pilot forgot to insure it (unlikely, esp in 0.0) and if i was hiring mercenaries on a damage dealt basis i would want that taken into account(and would say so). Other than that MK don't really have a leg to stand on after giving such a vague contract. Im going to get in trouble for this, but what the hell. In their defence the contract was "50% damage on completion" and not "50% damage inflicted" however, to go all internet lawyer and argue for argument sake, is the 50% applicable? The contract was terminated before the minimum period was complete. Is the contract considered "complete"? Argument being no early completion clause was agreed on, so when Sick Boy said they wouldn't pay, Noir would still need to finish the contract period for the 50% fee to apply? Alek specifically told ThBoy they would stop the contract if Noir went over MK's budget. It's the Sick Boy's fault for not keeping track of Noir's kb to stay on top of how much they would owe. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Lee Dalton Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:50:00 - [143] Originally by: Orb Lati Originally by: Doddy To be honest the only issue i see with the amount due is that t1 fully insurable battleship hulls which are essentially free to the target in the current market (due to insurance) count as full value for damage inflicted. Losing a raven hull does not inflict 120mil damage on the target unless the pilot forgot to insure it (unlikely, esp in 0.0) and if i was hiring mercenaries on a damage dealt basis i would want that taken into account(and would say so). Other than that MK don't really have a leg to stand on after giving such a vague contract. Im going to get in trouble for this, but what the hell. In their defence the contract was "50% damage on completion" and not "50% damage inflicted" however, to go all internet lawyer and argue for argument sake, is the 50% applicable? The contract was terminated before the minimum period was complete. Is the contract considered "complete"? Argument being no early completion clause was agreed on, so when Sick Boy said they wouldn't pay, Noir would still need to finish the contract period for the 50% fee to apply? I'm not sure how relevant this is when the employer says that they will not honour the contract, then tries to gank you. *** You're only as good as your last fight.
Mickey Simon Blutkinder	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:55:00 - [144] Originally by: Erichk Knaar We are looking into building a better mousetrap, so to speak, but its a ways off. Yeah, mostly because I'm terrible at figuring out when I'm busy/free lol :( Also: has any progress been made on it? I'm on holidays now and have started doing a database schema, but if you guys are already progressing with it yourselves it'd be p cool to know so I don't waste any time / mb can help if you need it.
Benedict Carol	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:57:00 - [145] Originally by: Mickey Simon Originally by: Erichk Knaar We are looking into building a better mousetrap, so to speak, but its a ways off. Yeah, mostly because I'm terrible at figuring out when I'm busy/free lol :( Also: has any progress been made on it? I'm on holidays now and have started doing a database schema, but if you guys are already progressing with it yourselves it'd be p cool to know so I don't waste any time / mb can help if you need it. WTF IS PROTUS?
Taram Caldar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:57:00 - [146] All I have to say is: If you hire a merc outfit... any merc outfit... you darn well better be ready and willing to pay when the collections agent comes calling. Those who don't tend to regret it afterward. It's pretty much open season on Maru Kage btw... anyone who wants to join in the fun just contact Alek and we'll sort standings. I'm taking bets on how long it is before they start losing caps that they seem to like to sit outside station in. Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
Alekseyev Karrde Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 20:12:00 - [147] Sick Boy > to train Alekseyev Karrde > i think thats pretty fair Sick Boy > nah no deal, we did nthing wrong in this case Sick Boy > and im a fiar person Alekseyev Karrde > you didnt pay, how is that right? Minigin > sick you accepted a contract and didnt put a cap on it Sick Boy > cuz im willing to pay you something but Alekseyev Karrde > you havnt even sent me the 2b you claim you have Sick Boy > you cant put a price Sick Boy > on a blacklisting and slander Sick Boy > the damage is already done Sick Boy > killing you all day is fun for us not a threat really Sick Boy > trains up our fc's and pvpers Minigin > sick this is friendly advise Minigin > you want a compromise Sick Boy > try dodging PL doomsdays Sick Boy > for 2 months Minigin > i like both of you but i think you have wronged alek here Sick Boy > mini hes already Sick Boy > blacklisted us Sick Boy > we have war decs Sick Boy > from all merc crops Sick Boy > in empire Sick Boy > hes already done the damage Alekseyev Karrde > i can get the decs retracted Sick Boy > he prbably couldnt even take it back if he wanted too Sick Boy > i dont know if you really could Sick Boy > tbh Alekseyev Karrde > since i asked for them to go out, it's a fair bet Sick Boy > well i have to get back to work ill send you Alekseyev Karrde > i've sent contracts to just about every merc corp in the game at one point or another Sick Boy > the vote we have in alliance righ tnow Alekseyev Karrde > they are friends Minigin > sick this shouldnt be an alliance vote Sick Boy > it has to be Sick Boy > we are a democracy Minigin > im guessing the alliance didnt vote on hiring mercs Sick Boy > i guess that true Sick Boy > wel i dont want to be Sick Boy > on any blacklists Sick Boy > we are a blacklisted alliance enough Alekseyev Karrde > if 2b is the offer we'll take it and go. it's better than nothing, but you've still done wrong Minigin > dude hes not going to accept contracts from you ever again Minigin > regardless of what you do at this point Sick Boy > ya but Minigin > being blacklisted isnt a choice Sick Boy > hes got a full blacklist on us Sick Boy > for ALL merc corps Sick Boy > in the entire game Alekseyev Karrde > If he actually pays i'll lift the blacklist Alekseyev Karrde > it's not that hard to do Sick Boy > your heard it mini? Sick Boy > you'll fix our name on the crime and punishment board? Minigin > yah but sick you need to understand Sick Boy > promise me that Alekseyev Karrde > yes, i would do my best Sick Sick Boy > and we have a deal Sick Boy > ok i trust you Minigin > that all mercs have is the word of their customers and the blacklist if people dont pay Sick Boy > ive always liked you Sick Boy > ya i know mini Sick Boy > its just a special circumstance this time Sick Boy > i was wrong in the negotioatino Sick Boy > of the orginal contract Sick Boy > and i am sorry for that Sick Boy > ok log this convo Sick Boy > ill log it too Sick Boy > minigin your a witness Sick Boy > sending isk Sick Boy > we got a deal Alek? Alekseyev Karrde > when i get our money Sick Boy > *shakes? Sick Boy > k Sick Boy > done Sick Boy > you can verify Minigin > ok so for next time when you hire someone make sure you put a cap on the contract Sick Boy > ya for sure Alekseyev Karrde > i can verify you've paid 2 billion isk Sick Boy > no cap is Sick Boy > dangerious Sick Boy > very dangerous Alekseyev Karrde > aye. If you had told me 2bn upfront i would have stopped us waaaaay before it became a problem Sick Boy > i really thoguth 2 billion and the 150 depoisti would be enough for 1 week Sick Boy > i really did Sick Boy > im sorry alek, i really thoguth it would be Sick Boy > honestly Sick Boy > im not a scammer when it comes to deals like this, i just misjudged i guess Sick Boy > how no cap contracts Minigin > misunderstandings and what not Sick Boy > can get very high very quick Sick Boy > minigin i apprecaite your advise Sick Boy > on this matter Minigin > any time m8 --- Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Capital Construction Research	Posted - 2009.11.11 20:17:00 - [148] Quote: Sick Boy > try dodging PL doomsdays Sick Boy > for 2 months
Sick Boy Minmatar Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.11 20:22:00 - [149] Originally by: Kuzya Morozov Quote: Sick Boy > try dodging PL doomsdays Sick Boy > for 2 months haha ya thats quote's funny. true though
Dumb Jerk	Posted - 2009.11.11 20:41:00 - [150] Sick, your stupidity knows no bounds: Quote: Sick Boy > you cant put a price Sick Boy > on a blacklisting and slander Sick Boy > the damage is already done Sick Boy > killing you all day is fun for us not a threat really Sick Boy > trains up our fc's and pvpers So why'd you hire Noir? Do you always try to protect your interests by hiring terrible merc pvp pilots? Does that seem wise? With Noir having dealt out 5 billion+ damage in 4 days, you'd have us believe that you're better than Noir? I guess we'll find out on the killboards. At least I hope we do. I've always wanted to see Noir handle a welching contractee.

Kan3r Blaze Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 20:52:00 - [151] Originally by: Dumb Jerk With Noir having dealt out 5 billion+ damage in 4 days.. 10 Bil Declarations of War - Revisted - Home of the Noir. podcast
Orb Lati Minmatar ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.11 20:54:00 - [152] Originally by: Lee Dalton Originally by: Orb Lati Originally by: Doddy stuff my stuff More stuff I wasn't arguing right and wrong, just semantics. Your terms were "150m upfront, 50% damage on completion. Default is a week, if we exceed your budget let me know and we'll end early" My comment is just that you cant apply the 50% damage fee until you complete the contract which was a week long. IF sick just said he wasn't intending to pay then you would you not be still be obligated to wait a week before applying the 50%? However I concede mid-contract period in quoted convo "Sick Boy > our budget was 2 billion isk" effectively ending the contract as per the agreement therefore contract complete. Now here's is some fun. Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde Sick Boy 2009.10.14 01:48 well there is a specific target, we want everyone killed in this system or surrounding systems. so when you ready to start the campaign, have the men move to x-7omu our home system. we basically want all of the kills done within 2 jumps from here Sickboy of Maru'Kage has setup the contract objective to include Maru'Kage within the list of the acceptable targets, and at no time since then (in the quoted dialog) has anybody refined the target list or removed Maru'Kage from that list Finally thought. In dealing with contracts I believe common law the following applies. "Minors and the mentally incompetent lack the legal capacity to enter into contracts." Obviously Sickboy falls within this definition and therefore this contact should be deemed Void. NOIR should stop victimizing poor Maru'Kage, and taking advantage those that cant take care of themselves. "We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible"
Raiiden Gallente Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.11 21:04:00 - [153] After Sick Boy reached an agreement with aleks, noir contacted a tcf gang to help them pod a couple of new MK members. then smacked in local about it... now if i take this observation, and combine it with, first thing this morning, prior to aleks trying to raise the price, by a very short period of time, one of my asosciates informing me that TFS(who are connected to noir) will be taking out a contract on us for (specifically for some reason the figure was given) 1.5 billion a week, and were looking for a staging point in dekklin... it looks a little bit like these two were trying to collaborate in some coercive type ****. lol. thats my customer experience review, you can put it in your box. One image per signature please. Zymurgist
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Capital Construction Research	Posted - 2009.11.11 21:19:00 - [154] Originally by: Raiiden After Sick Boy reached an agreement with aleks, noir contacted a tcf gang to help them pod a couple of new MK members. then smacked in local about it... now if i take this observation, and combine it with, first thing this morning, prior to aleks trying to raise the price, by a very short period of time, one of my asosciates informing me that TFS(who are connected to noir) will be taking out a contract on us for (specifically for some reason the figure was given) 1.5 billion a week, and were looking for a staging point in dekklin... it looks a little bit like these two were trying to collaborate in some coercive type ****. lol. thats my customer experience review, you can put it in your box. Too bad no one cares
Alekseyev Karrde Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 21:33:00 - [155] Originally by: Raiiden After Sick Boy reached an agreement with aleks, noir contacted a tcf gang to help them pod a couple of new MK members. then smacked in local about it... now if i take this observation, and combine it with, first thing this morning, prior to aleks trying to raise the price, by a very short period of time, one of my asosciates informing me that TFS(who are connected to noir) will be taking out a contract on us for (specifically for some reason the figure was given) 1.5 billion a week, and were looking for a staging point in dekklin... it looks a little bit like these two were trying to collaborate in some coercive type ****. lol. I would love to play on the server you do. A. I took Maru off the black list B. Mailed the mercs decing you about retracting C. You reset us, there for are not blue, and we're NBSI. Go cry about it. D. TCF shot us, we have no connection to them. E. TFS offered isk to us not to leave Pure. F. What's Deklein have to do with anything lol For the record, Sick Boy declined my comprimise offer of 3bn (lower than mentioned in this thread) in favor of a 2bn comprimise where i lifted the pressure to not accepting contracts from him and from empire decs on Maru. Upon receipt of his ISK i did the aforementioned things intermediately. Noir. is now on a short R+R in Pure Blind along with some friends who were already on the way up here. We're already up here and have no job yet lined up so we'll be killing everything not blue in the region till i figure out where we're going next. Maru Ka'ge will no doubt be one of the groups discomforted by our presence but that's 0.0 for you. We're not blue with them, and I think everyone in this thread would agree we owe them no special treatment. I have no doubt some people will still want to attack MK on principle for attempting what they did or because, quite frankly, they arn't very good at making friends which has nothing to do with us. We will not be accepting contracts from MK, Raiiden, or Sick Boy for reasons you may be able to surmise from this thread but those reasons are ours and ours alone. Any merc corp should feel free to enter into business with them if they so wish. That is Noir.'s statement, probably our last on the matter. --- Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam
Taram Caldar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.11 21:39:00 - [156] Originally by: Raiiden After Sick Boy reached an agreement with aleks, noir contacted a tcf gang to help them pod a couple of new MK members. then smacked in local about it... now if i take this observation, and combine it with, first thing this morning, prior to aleks trying to raise the price, by a very short period of time, one of my asosciates informing me that TFS(who are connected to noir) will be taking out a contract on us for (specifically for some reason the figure was given) 1.5 billion a week, and were looking for a staging point in dekklin... it looks a little bit like these two were trying to collaborate in some coercive type ****. lol. thats my customer experience review, you can put it in your box. LOL actually we were as surprised by the TCF gang as you were. Had I known a TCF gang was going to hot drop you I'd have warped to the station and bubbled your idiot fleet shooting the TCF Hic sitting outside then docked immediately and listened to the tears as your entire fleet (which was agressed) died. The honest truth is there was a TCF Hic in system, sitting outside your station and you proceeded to undock a bunch of battleships, and a couple caps, to shoot at it. TCF responded by cyno bridging a fleet on your heads. Had nothing to do with us. Though we did find it rather hillarious. Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
VALICSHADOWRAT Minmatar Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.11 21:47:00 - [157] Wow!!! thats all I have to say..
Knuckle Shuffle	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:00:00 - [158] Give him the isk Sickboy,you welched on a deal
RedSplat Noir.	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:08:00 - [159] I get R&R with TFS? Score Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Awesome Possum Imperium Signal Corps	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:11:00 - [160] I <3 this thread ♥ Wreck Disposal Services

FU22 Imperium Signal Corps Underworld Excavators	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:14:00 - [161] I demand moar drama! Hi alek
Roastedpot Blutkinder	Posted - 2009.11.11 23:34:00 - [162] Maru'Kage should hire f-off, it is a perfect situation. f-off won't actually complete their end of the contract, and Maru'Kage won't pay their end, it is win-win for both sides!
Daniel Ogden	Posted - 2009.11.11 23:38:00 - [163] Edited by: Daniel Ogden on 11/11/2009 23:44:36 EDIT: ---------------------------Maru Ka'ge Official Statement---------------------- Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde A. I took Maru off the black list B. Mailed the mercs decing you about retracting C. You reset us, there for are not blue, and we're NBSI. Go cry about it. D. TCF shot us, we have no connection to them. E. TFS offered isk to us not to leave Pure. F. What's Deklein have to do with anything lol For the record, Sick Boy declined my comprimise offer of 3bn (lower than mentioned in this thread) in favor of a 2bn comprimise where i lifted the pressure to not accepting contracts from him and from empire decs on Maru. Upon receipt of his ISK i did the aforementioned things intermediately. Noir. is now on a short R+R in Pure Blind along with some friends who were already on the way up here. We're already up here and have no job yet lined up so we'll be killing everything not blue in the region till i figure out where we're going next. Maru Ka'ge will no doubt be one of the groups discomforted by our presence but that's 0.0 for you. We're not blue with them, and I think everyone in this thread would agree we owe them no special treatment. I have no doubt some people will still want to attack MK on principle for attempting what they did or because, quite frankly, they arn't very good at making friends which has nothing to do with us. We will not be accepting contracts from MK, Raiiden, or Sick Boy for reasons you may be able to surmise from this thread but those reasons are ours and ours alone. Any merc corp should feel free to enter into business with them if they so wish. That is Noir.'s statement, probably our last on the matter. The original contract was to grief Mutiny and camp them in, part of that was killing people in the surrounding systems. You guys did a great job of killing in the surrounding systems but dropped the ball on Mutiny, which was the reason for the contract in the first place. Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde We did a good faith effort to kill your preferred targets when we saw them The problem is you made very meager attempts to actually put yourself in a position to see them. We wanted them to be camped in to ROIR and for you to make their life hell. You rarely had manpower in the system at all to the point where it was easy for Mutiny to move a large part of their assets into low sec. This is clearly evidenced on your own killboard. 64 million ISK destroyed during the campaign in the target system. ThatÆs your ægood faithÆ? Clearly you had the capability to do much, much better. Why such lackluster performance in our target system? Why only 11 ships killed for the target alliance if you were making such a good faith effort? I can assure you that there were plenty of them around to shoot. So why didnÆt you go after them as was discussed? Was it because you had an evemail that said 50% of everything killed within 2 jumps and you knew you could do whatever you wanted in the area, our previously discussed targets and goals for the campaign be damned and charge us out the ass for it? Is it any wonder why we thought you were trying to extort us? (Now we know you are due to your continued efforts to extort 5 billion after a compromise was reached) This really doesnÆt speak too well for your merc corp if you just turn a blind eye to the objectives and do whatever is necessary to make the most ISK for your group. Granted, the point of a merc organization is to make ISK but surely you would try to at least accomplish the task you were hired for if you are going to present such a large tab. continued...
Daniel Ogden	Posted - 2009.11.11 23:43:00 - [164] continued... You deliberately tried to take advantage of this situation and when we called you on it you decided to post very carefully chosen pieces of chat logs to make yourself look completely faultless. Calling all your buddies down here to try and muscle the obscene bill out of us really doesnÆt reflect well on your outfit either or you personally, someone who is running for CSM. We have said the whole time that we would like to come to an agreement on what is fair considering the fact that you abandoned our target system to go stomp on NC in the neighboring systems. 2bln seems more than fair considering your abandonment of the objective and furthermore, is an amount that you agreed to. After that you are still trying to get 5 bln out of us? Really? What makes you think that this is honest or fair at all? You failed your objectives and tried to extort us and then you say æletÆs be done with itÆ take 2 bln and carry on like you didnÆt just make an agreement, with the exception of saying Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde A. I took Maru off the black list B. Mailed the mercs decing you about retracting Yet in the same post you say your buddies are coming anyways? You still have an active campaign against us on your own killboard and you are still requesting 5bln, even after taking 2bln and settling the subject according to yourself. Hardly just sitting around 0.0 like you claim, although if that is what you in fact intend to do great, letÆs have some pew pew. As it stands now though thatÆs not whatÆs going on. You are still trying to extort us for 5 billion ISK. We were not impressed with your lack of focus and arguably complete disregard for our target system and alliance. That aside we never at any point desired to scam you and were willing to come to an agreement, which we did (that we includes you). The contract is done and paid in full as far as we are concerned and according to your personal word. The 2bln was to pay for the contract and that in turn was to rescind the black list, etc. You sir, are the scammer as it stands at this moment due to your continued efforts to extort a further 5bln from MK, and it reflects quite poorly on your group. Unless things change I would recommend that anyone considering hiring NOIR look for other options.
IHaveNoFace	Posted - 2009.11.12 00:06:00 - [165] U Mad?
Kan3r Blaze Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.12 00:19:00 - [166] Daniel, you seem like an intelligent chap so please try and think forward and consider the consequences of continuing to draw attention to this matter any further. The situation is very clear to people reading this thread, and damage control at this late stage is too little, too late. Although you do present a very well thought out and coherent case, it is not based upon fact in it's entirety, therefore it will fall on deaf ears. I salute your persistance however, and assure you that we are not "calling anyone in". If, whilst we are on R&R, people are drawn to this thread and decide to visit Pure Blind then there is little we can do about it. Hence my initial comment. Declarations of War - Revisted - Home of the Noir. podcast
Eos Canon Comply Or Die Retribution.	Posted - 2009.11.12 00:24:00 - [167] Tears
Daniel Ogden	Posted - 2009.11.12 00:38:00 - [168] Originally by: Kan3r Blaze Daniel, you seem like an intelligent chap so please try and think forward and consider the consequences of continuing to draw attention to this matter any further. The situation is very clear to people reading this thread, and damage control at this late stage is too little, too late. Although you do present a very well thought out and coherent case, it is not based upon fact in it's entirety, therefore it will fall on deaf ears. I salute your persistance however, and assure you that we are not "calling anyone in". If, whilst we are on R&R, people are drawn to this thread and decide to visit Pure Blind then there is little we can do about it. Hence my initial comment. I am only drawing attention to it until it is resolved. As previously stated the contract is finished as far as we are concerned due to the agreement reached by MK and Noir. The problem lies in the fact that what appeared to be true 24 hours ago, that Noir is trying to extort MK, still appears to be true at the this time. As soon as it is clear that is no longer your intent our official position will change to reflect that. What part of my case is not based on fact? You should follow a statement like that with some substance. We aren't trying to be DBs here but we are not gonna get played for 5bln. It's just not gonna happen. If you are just here on R&R then I'm sure we will have some fun tonight, we aren't afraid to lose some ships in pew pew, but your consistent efforts and talk about getting 5bln after we reached a compromise are not very becoming of a professional organization such as Noir and it will not be paid.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.12 01:05:00 - [169] Originally by: FU22 I demand moar drama! Hi alek wtf, when did you left? --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Lee Dalton Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.12 01:14:00 - [170] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: FU22 I demand moar drama! Hi alek wtf, when did you left? He was kicked for being too British. :( *** You're only as good as your last fight.

Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.12 01:17:00 - [171] Originally by: Daniel Ogden stuff Quote: 2009.10.14 01:48 well there is a specific target, we want everyone killed in this system or surrounding systems. so when you ready to start the campaign, have the men move to x-7omu our home system. we basically want all of the kills done within 2 jumps from here Quote: 2009.11.02 08:45 when you guys are ready i want you guys to base out of ROIR and kill Everyone in that system and camp them YARRRR!! 2009.11.02 17:16 ok sounds good -------------------- 2009.11.02 12:44 Np, but i'd add ROIR and all adjacent systems to your bill in addition to the X-7 + 2 jumps --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.12 01:22:00 - [172] Originally by: Lee Dalton Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: FU22 I demand moar drama! Hi alek wtf, when did you left? He was kicked for being too British. :( too British? how can that be possible? --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
FU22 Imperium Signal Corps Underworld Excavators	Posted - 2009.11.12 01:22:00 - [173] Originally by: Lee Dalton Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: FU22 I demand moar drama! Hi alek wtf, when did you left? He was kicked for being too British. :( dddddd Too welsh glares at Nidia
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.12 01:27:00 - [174] Originally by: FU22 Originally by: Lee Dalton Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: FU22 I demand moar drama! Hi alek wtf, when did you left? He was kicked for being too British. :( dddddd Too welsh glares at Nidia oh wait, now that's possible. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Rayn Zelous Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.12 01:31:00 - [175] Good show lads nice read
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Capital Construction Research	Posted - 2009.11.12 01:48:00 - [176] sick boy singing IRL
Elno Wildclaw BENEVOLENC3 Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.12 02:02:00 - [177] Daniel, shut the hell up. Seriously. This isn't CAOD, people don't look at 3 threads about the same crap and say, 'oh, silly Maru Ka'ge!' I'll chew your head off on vent too. Honestly, here, this is a diplomatic cluster ** where mercenaries were hired for a job that our own pilots could have easily accomplished (though with the intelligence of some pilots, even THAT'S debatable) and when the bill came up it was more than Sick Boy had planned for, and was too poor to afford. It was a miscalculation on Sick Boy's part to hire mercs in the first place, and it was a miscommunication that caused the conflict. Of course, Noir is continuing to attack Maru Ka'ge pilots and the wardec from another corp has yet to be dropped yet even after the matter has supposedly been resolved, but there is no need for multiple threads to be about it, and Maru Ka'ge pilots who are crapping up Crime and Punishment need to let the matter drop immediately and get back to ratting in **ty NPC space or running missions in highsec. A soft word turneth away wrath. While its back is turned, shoot it in the head.
Rhanna Khurin Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.11.12 02:28:00 - [178] Edited by: Rhanna Khurin on 12/11/2009 02:30:19 Well, all i can say is i think you should have made a better contract. Perhaps maybe hore some "cheaper mercs" 2 bill sounds ok to me for a weeks work, but this sort of thing isn't my forte EDIT: Causing trouble with the peeps you hired to beat off your enemies when you couldn't do it yourself whilst insulting their business practice is not a good idea. Prepared to have a "special interest group"
Lieff Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.11.12 02:29:00 - [179] 4038 kills, 4456 losses, and -3311 points ~ Woke up, got myself a gun.
Hoodat Bee	Posted - 2009.11.12 02:39:00 - [180] Originally by: Rhanna Khurin EDIT: Causing trouble with the peeps you hired to beat off your enemies when you couldn't do it yourself whilst insulting their business practice is not a good idea. Prepared to have a "special interest group" Nothing makes a special interest group come like beating off your enemies.

Daniel Ogden	Posted - 2009.11.12 02:58:00 - [181] Originally by: Elno Wildclaw Daniel, shut the hell up. Seriously. This isn't CAOD, people don't look at 3 threads about the same crap and say, 'oh, silly Maru Ka'ge!' I'll chew your head off on vent too. Honestly, here, this is a diplomatic cluster ** where mercenaries were hired for a job that our own pilots could have easily accomplished (though with the intelligence of some pilots, even THAT'S debatable) and when the bill came up it was more than Sick Boy had planned for, and was too poor to afford. It was a miscalculation on Sick Boy's part to hire mercs in the first place, and it was a miscommunication that caused the conflict. Of course, Noir is continuing to attack Maru Ka'ge pilots and the wardec from another corp has yet to be dropped yet even after the matter has supposedly been resolved, but there is no need for multiple threads to be about it, and Maru Ka'ge pilots who are crapping up Crime and Punishment need to let the matter drop immediately and get back to ratting in **ty NPC space or running missions in highsec. Elno, You are out of place with your post. There is only one other thread to be deleted when the 5bln is dropped as discussed. Other posts are either being started by people who ought not to be doing so or people trying to make us look bad. We have a valid point and it is a simple one. While I agree with many (nearly all) your points, we can discuss that later. If you think you need to "chew my head off in vent" you can do that too.You are quite right, this is not CAOD. Please stop posting, it is not your job. If you disagree then talk to me in game or on vent. This is not the place for it.
The PitBoss Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.12 03:34:00 - [182] Originally by: Daniel Ogden Calling all your buddies down here to try and muscle the obscene bill out of us really doesnÆt reflect well on your outfit either or you personally, someone who is running for CSM. I don't know about you .. but I'd rather have someone like Alekseyev Karrde as CSM than someone like Sick Boy BTW your tears are delicious .... mmmmmm Thank-You, The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss) Signatures by: Kalen Vox
Alekseyev Karrde Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.12 03:35:00 - [183] Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 12/11/2009 03:44:28 Elno's post, Daniel's post and some earlier convos from individuals in Maru Ka'ge lead me to believe MK has some very intelligent and capable players in it. They just arn't allow to lead the alliance. ;p As far as the decs, i sent EVE mails dont know if they've been received yet. Bit out of my hands at that point. --- Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam
Daniel Ogden	Posted - 2009.11.12 03:47:00 - [184] Edited by: Daniel Ogden on 12/11/2009 03:48:03 Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde As far as the decs, i sent EVE mails dont know if they've been received yet. Bit out of my hands at that point. I understand that. Here is what we are concerned about. Well after we reached our agreement there were pilots that were still demanding 5 bln from MK. If their thinking was not in concert with the leadership of Noir, all I need is confirmation from you and this thing is quashed.
a51 duke1406 Imperium Signal Corps Underworld Excavators	Posted - 2009.11.12 03:48:00 - [185] The war between Underworld Excavators and Maru Ka'ge is coming to an end. Underworld Excavators has retracted the war against Maru Ka'ge. The war will be declared as being over after approximately 24 hours.
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.12 03:52:00 - [186] Seeming as there doing a deliberate attempt to ruin your name via the means of alts all over c&p, why are you dropping war decs ?
The Wicked1	Posted - 2009.11.12 03:55:00 - [187] tl;dr: -> Mk hires Noir. with a guy that obviously limited knowledge when it comes to typing and English grammar -> Noir. does an astounding job -> MK thinks this GAME is the Real world and goes crying that Noir. is a bad bully for doing such a good job and refuses to pay -> Noir., ofcourse, goes public with the news to warn other Merc companies about MK, and possibly to pressure MK to pay. -> MK, still crying, doesn't think the treatment its getting is fair, remind you this is a GAME, even though Noir. has never done anything wrong regarding this contract. -> Noir. and MK get to an agreement, where Noir. does an incredibly kind thing and gives its services away dirt cheap and tries to help MK to fix its reputation by asking other Merc companies to take them of the blacklist, which is one of two things that Merc companies can leverage against customers that refuse to pay I take it -> Still MK cries! For all these people out there that get fixated by grammatical errors know now that I am from Iceland so I have no obligation to write perfectly constructed sentences or paragraphs in English. I am though required, like most of the habitants of the Internet (is: Veraldarvefurinn), to use the return and space buttons on my keyboard once in a while while writing. Remember kids; one space a day, keeps PL away!
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.11.12 04:04:00 - [188] Quote: 4038 kills, 4456 losses, and -3311 points ALEKSEYEV KARRDE FOR CSM
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.12 04:27:00 - [189] LOOK WHAT YOU DID
imorax Gallente Cosmic Cimmerians	Posted - 2009.11.12 04:33:00 - [190] Outstanding forum pew pew! Didn't like the CSM part though.

PostmasterGeneral Minmatar yo i'm posting	Posted - 2009.11.12 05:07:00 - [191] ...and Maru Ka'ge went back to CAOD, never to be heard from in c&p again...
Fairah	Posted - 2009.11.12 05:52:00 - [192] bump +1
Lightningshade Caldari The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.11.12 08:31:00 - [193] Originally by: Sick Boy Originally by: Count MonteCarlo How the hell can an alliance leader not afford 5b? its TUESDAY count, 5billion for 4 days work? That's insane man. No way would a person of sound mind agree to that To me, looks like you tried to flirt cash about, make yourself and alliance look like something special. "Yeh we got the best mercs working for us out there", and then can't actually pay what you agreed. It's kinda expected of you guys right now though, so I'm not that shocked.
im inur	Posted - 2009.11.12 11:12:00 - [194] sick boy WTF IS PROTUS
dracice R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.11.12 11:33:00 - [195] alex, dunno if you are still reading this thread, i watched your rise as a ceo from the time you started. some advice: use chribba, especially for shady people like maru kage. i guess you know how he works, if not here it is. prior to going to chribba you guys work out your deal. then when you go the convo with you chribba and maru it would look like.... maru: i want to hire noir, these are the isk arrangements, and the conditions on which the isk is to be released. noir: confirms the arrangement. maru xfers the isk to chribba who holds it, and confirms he has received it. you go on your campaign knowing with confidence that once your goals are complete chribba will release the isk. usually the lest work or confirmation chribba has to do on his own, the less his fee, so for something involving a contract where neither of you is scamming each other, and the deal goes smooth, it could be 100. if it involves him having to go to the area or look at documentation to mediate a dispute of the deal then it would involve more.
Lana's Alt Minmatar Republic Military Skool HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.12 11:48:00 - [196] Originally by: dracice alex, dunno if you are still reading this thread, i watched your rise as a ceo from the time you started. some advice: use chribba, especially for shady people like maru kage. i guess you know how he works, if not here it is. prior to going to chribba you guys work out your deal. then when you go the convo with you chribba and maru it would look like.... maru: i want to hire noir, these are the isk arrangements, and the conditions on which the isk is to be released. noir: confirms the arrangement. maru xfers the isk to chribba who holds it, and confirms he has received it. you go on your campaign knowing with confidence that once your goals are complete chribba will release the isk. usually the lest work or confirmation chribba has to do on his own, the less his fee, so for something involving a contract where neither of you is scamming each other, and the deal goes smooth, it could be 100. if it involves him having to go to the area or look at documentation to mediate a dispute of the deal then it would involve more. I wouldn't have thought a well respected merc corp that is know for getting the job done where ever they are needed would need a 3rd party to back them up. If Alex would have followed my advice we would now be discussing who Noir will be selling Maru's space too now that they have disbanded... Be glad I do not control Noir.. yet.. Istvaan Shogaatsu: As with most such situations the answer is simple: rob them first.
dracice R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.11.12 11:49:00 - [197] Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 11/11/2009 21:49:54 Originally by: Raiiden After Sick Boy reached an agreement with aleks, noir contacted a tcf gang to help them pod a couple of new MK members. then smacked in local about it... now if i take this observation, and combine it with, first thing this morning, prior to aleks trying to raise the price, by a very short period of time, one of my asosciates informing me that TFS(who are connected to noir) will be taking out a contract on us for (specifically for some reason the figure was given) 1.5 billion a week, and were looking for a staging point in dekklin... it looks a little bit like these two were trying to collaborate in some coercive type ****. lol. I would love to play on the server you do. i can confirm raiiden is always high, which is why u are wondering if he plays on the same server.
dracice R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.11.12 11:58:00 - [198] Originally by: Lana's Alt Originally by: dracice alex, dunno if you are still reading this thread, i watched your rise as a ceo from the time you started. some advice: use chribba, especially for shady people like maru kage. i guess you know how he works, if not here it is. prior to going to chribba you guys work out your deal. then when you go the convo with you chribba and maru it would look like.... maru: i want to hire noir, these are the isk arrangements, and the conditions on which the isk is to be released. noir: confirms the arrangement. maru xfers the isk to chribba who holds it, and confirms he has received it. you go on your campaign knowing with confidence that once your goals are complete chribba will release the isk. usually the lest work or confirmation chribba has to do on his own, the less his fee, so for something involving a contract where neither of you is scamming each other, and the deal goes smooth, it could be 100. if it involves him having to go to the area or look at documentation to mediate a dispute of the deal then it would involve more. I wouldn't have thought a well respected merc corp that is know for getting the job done where ever they are needed would need a 3rd party to back them up. If Alex would have followed my advice we would now be discussing who Noir will be selling Maru's space too now that they have disbanded... Be glad I do not control Noir.. yet.. lana, NOIR doesnt need it because they are not well respected, they NEED it to protected THEMSELVES from people who would want to defraud them. I do not think a big alliance would or someone 'trustworthy' in eve like minigin for e.g. however, sick boy? maru kage? definitely hire a third party to hold your isk. so once again, they need the third party to protect themselves.
Serlunt	Posted - 2009.11.12 12:08:00 - [199] Originally by: dracice Originally by: Lana's Alt Originally by: dracice alex, dunno if you are still reading this thread, i watched your rise as a ceo from the time you started. some advice: use chribba, especially for shady people like maru kage. i guess you know how he works, if not here it is. prior to going to chribba you guys work out your deal. then when you go the convo with you chribba and maru it would look like.... maru: i want to hire noir, these are the isk arrangements, and the conditions on which the isk is to be released. noir: confirms the arrangement. maru xfers the isk to chribba who holds it, and confirms he has received it. you go on your campaign knowing with confidence that once your goals are complete chribba will release the isk. usually the lest work or confirmation chribba has to do on his own, the less his fee, so for something involving a contract where neither of you is scamming each other, and the deal goes smooth, it could be 100. if it involves him having to go to the area or look at documentation to mediate a dispute of the deal then it would involve more. I wouldn't have thought a well respected merc corp that is know for getting the job done where ever they are needed would need a 3rd party to back them up. If Alex would have followed my advice we would now be discussing who Noir will be selling Maru's space too now that they have disbanded... Be glad I do not control Noir.. yet.. lana, NOIR doesnt need it because they are not well respected, they NEED it to protected THEMSELVES from people who would want to defraud them. I do not think a big alliance would or someone 'trustworthy' in eve like minigin for e.g. however, sick boy? maru kage? definitely hire a third party to hold your isk. so once again, they need the third party to protect themselves. I think lana was trying to say that NOIR's guns and missles are their 3rd party.
Dracoknight The Directorate	Posted - 2009.11.12 12:17:00 - [200] I volunteer to be this "Isk Holder" person! I hold your isk any time, anywhere, and anyho as long as i get 10% of it for the service ofcourse ;) ____________________ I wish my Thorax could use missiles...

Kasahnya	Posted - 2009.11.12 12:29:00 - [201] Did you (rep from MK) not say that you wanted to kill everyone in a 2 jump span?
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.11.12 16:07:00 - [202] Originally by: Serlunt I think lana was trying to say that NOIR's guns and missles are their 3rd party. Although I am now curious. Anyone in the third party business care to chime in and inform the masses about what kind of (probably very reasonable) service fees and percentages they charge for such an arrangement? -- Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
RedSplat Noir.	Posted - 2009.11.12 16:18:00 - [203] Originally by: Zedrik Cayne Although I am now curious. Anyone in the third party business care to chime in and inform the masses about what kind of (probably very reasonable) service fees and percentages they charge for such an arrangement? Its the weirdest franchise in EVE for sure, in a game where no-one trusts anyone. I'd love Chribba to write an article about his business sometime. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
dracice R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.11.12 16:42:00 - [204] let me give you my example. recently i sold a wormhole with some assets. the buyer took the buy out as per forum. and me and him chatted about the terms of him authorizing chribba to release the isk. would be confirmation of all the assets im selling and i have to unanchor them so he can scoop them and move them to safety. so i did nothing such as scan him into the wormhole prior to him giving the isk to chribba. chribba didnt charge much because he didnt have to do much, he just provided both of us with the confidence that we were going to get what we wanted. but if the buyer had said well i scammed him AFTER i scanned the wormhole entrace for him and told him and he came in, chribba would now have to travel and verify whats going on, and if the buyer is lying his isk would be forfeit.
Cadaverous Stench	Posted - 2009.11.12 19:39:00 - [205] God damn, I love these forums. Never ending entertainment.
ThaDollaGenerale The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.11.12 21:44:00 - [206] How did I not see this thread? It's a think of beauty
mishkof Caldari Hmmzor.	Posted - 2009.11.13 07:02:00 - [207] Case of a dumb contract being accepted by an even dumber person.
Bai ZongTong HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.11.13 07:08:00 - [208] Originally by: Roastedpot Maru'Kage should hire f-off, it is a perfect situation. f-off won't actually complete their end of the contract, and Maru'Kage won't pay their end, it is win-win for both sides! HYDRA RELOADED 2009: APPLY TODAY. JOIN THE WINNING SIDE.
Raiiden Gallente Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.13 07:27:00 - [209] roflmao!!!! noir your campaign stats aint lookin so hot! roflmao MK 4 LYFE WE DONT DIE WE MULTIPLY and bring moar merc friends we're makin merc smores b*#$@S!!! One image per signature please. Zymurgist
Sick Boy Minmatar Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.13 08:28:00 - [210] Originally by: Raiiden roflmao!!!! noir your campaign stats aint lookin so hot! roflmao MK 4 LYFE WE DONT DIE WE MULTIPLY and bring moar merc friends we're makin merc smores b*#$@S!!! interesting reads on these forums. far as i know, i sat in a room with the NOIR leader Alek and we came to a comprimise, next thing i know the guy turns around and is forming campaign against us. He's not the honorable leader i thought he was

Mynas Atoch UK Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.11.13 09:06:00 - [211] Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 13/11/2009 09:07:43 Noir should have known better. I'd hold the contract manager responsible. His job isn't just to hear bids for his services but to ensure that the client CAN pay, WILL pay, fully understand the contract and that an upper limit is explicilty agreed on 'open ended' sums. Nevertheless, it sounds like your guys did a great job and are applying pressure to force a settlement. I'll keep you on my list of 'contractors'. Mynas Atoch retired mercenary
Dracoknight The Directorate	Posted - 2009.11.13 09:09:00 - [212] Well, its not NOIRs problem if the client dont pay, they get paid nonetheless Either from your wallet, or from your wreck... ____________________ I wish my Thorax could use missiles...
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.13 09:13:00 - [213] Originally by: Sick Boy Originally by: Raiiden roflmao!!!! noir your campaign stats aint lookin so hot! roflmao MK 4 LYFE WE DONT DIE WE MULTIPLY and bring moar merc friends we're makin merc smores b#$@S!!! interesting reads on these forums. far as i know, i sat in a room with the NOIR leader Alek and we came to a comprimise, next thing i know the guy turns around and is forming campaign against us. He's not the honorable leader i thought he was Horse* and gunsmoke. Last time you were in a room with Alek, you came to this agreement: 1) Noir. prevails upon other merc corps to retract wardecs already issued and states that you should no longer be on a blacklist. 2) You pay Noir less than half of what was owed. Frankly (and I don't speak for Noir. in any official capacity) you got off light, and Alek was being a lot nicer than he should have. If it was me, we'd be taking out the fee in your ing hulls at twice the going price, to make up for our lost time. Not only that, but your home system would be our ing R&R destination of choice for the forseeable future. The rest is just people doing what they do in 0.0. Killing **. Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast
INsovietRussia	Posted - 2009.11.13 09:35:00 - [214] im pretty sure we'll all remember this event as the one that killed maru'kage. well, at least for the few weeks anyone remembers who maru'kage were
Taram Caldar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.13 13:55:00 - [215] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 13/11/2009 13:55:21 Originally by: Mynas Atoch Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 13/11/2009 09:07:43 Noir should have known better. I'd hold the contract manager responsible. His job isn't just to hear bids for his services but to ensure that the client CAN pay, WILL pay, fully understand the contract and that an upper limit is explicilty agreed on 'open ended' sums. Nevertheless, it sounds like your guys did a great job and are applying pressure to force a settlement. I'll keep you on my list of 'contractors'. Mynas Atoch retired mercenary I blame Mynas Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
Delta Bacat	Posted - 2009.11.13 14:20:00 - [216] oh Noir., you always bring me the best violence.... 7 pages and read every word, how I love the EVE community & spirit.
Delta Bacat	Posted - 2009.11.13 14:29:00 - [217] Edited by: Delta Bacat on 13/11/2009 14:30:13 Double post? Bah.
Dawggysnax	Posted - 2009.11.13 14:32:00 - [218] I'm in no way affiliated with either Noir or M'K, but there are some facts to be pointed. Quote: Noir. does an astounding job This coming in regard to their contract for M'K. But really.. how performant was Noir in this contract? Their kb says 10.65bn, however these numbers don't add up when broken down. Lets detail a bit, taking Jita prices as reference. BC \| 13x 30mil (harbi 30, most expensive) \| 390mil BS \| 12x 80mil (megas 73) \| 960mil CS \| 1x 160mil \| 160mil covops \| 14x 15mil \| 210mil cruiser \| 6x 10mil \| 60mil HAC \| 5x 115mil (vagas 105, ishtars 112) \| 575mil HIC \| 2x 115mil \| 230mil logistics \| 7x 80mil \| 560mil recons \| 4x 100mil \| 400mil T3 \| 1x 600mil (boat + subsystems) \| 600mil ------ 4145mil (4.14bn) +500mil (rigs) ------ 4645mil (4.64bn) I've just put up the bulk of their kills from the contract, if 100mil in frigs and some other stuff is missing from my analysis.. sorry but it's not relevant. So.. what we got is 4.14bn so far. I haven't checked the individual kills, so prices put are really mild (could be a lot of 50mil dominixes in there for all I care). At any rate, it's 4bn so far. To be fair lets add another 500mil in rigs (again very generous, idk how many ships were actually rigged), and there you have it 4.64bn. Now.. how the hell do we jump from 4.64bn to what their kb is saying (10.65bn). Where's the rest of 6bn? Explanation is quite simple. The Noir "pros" are taking into account all mods, even destroyed mods when calculating damage inflicted. Which not only is lame in itself, but it's a scam when you're charging clients based on those numbers. Sorry Alex, but you're boosting contract prices for higher revenue. It's simple as that. When you said "50% of what we kill", you knew exactly what you were doing. About a year ago I helped someone's alliance migrate from GW (GriefWatch) killboard to EDK (Eve Development Killboard). And, as a lot of you know, EDK does NOT take into account destroyed mods, NOT EVEN loot. Of course, my mate was furious, their ratios were in the 50-60%, while GW was showing a lot better numbers. So I've asked one of my friends, who's a long EDK developer (and now a co-hoster at eve-kill.net). Why doesn't EDK take into account modules? Answer was simple: because you never know who looted the field. You know for sure what ships were destroyed, and thats it. I can see Noir has gone a long way to redo the code in their kb (EDK based) so it includes EVERYTHING, but it's not representative for what happens in the field, not by a long shot. And to actually charge people based on those pimped numbers.. only a fool would pay. On the other hand, Sick Boy, with all due respect, you sir are a complete failure. Even with the boosted kb stats, you could've checked Noir's progress regulary and tell them to stop when you saw your isk limit reached.. or MUCH simpler tell Noir from the start what was the isk limit. Being a 12y old emo failure that you are, you defaulted on your loan without giving a cohesive explanation. You've broken your word and probably put your entire alliance in a bad bad spotlight. Could've said THE TRUTH "**** I only have 2bn, how do we solve this?" Great characters on both sides. Eve at its finest.
Vonlin Twisted Legion	Posted - 2009.11.13 15:00:00 - [219] Edited by: Vonlin on 13/11/2009 15:02:02 If the contract said "50% of whats killed" the client has to pay "50% of whats killed" its as simple as that Dawggysnax. If the contract had said something like "50% of killed ship haul's market value" or something along those lines, it would be a completely different story. Noir has done nothing shady or unethical, they designed a contract, maintained a public killboard that the client could see before and during the contract and the client agreed to all terms. The client could have been/was informed of what was going on at all times and knew full well what he was getting into. Now on to the topic of a killboard including the value of mods and rigs. There is plenty of killboards that include everything, its pretty common practice. Beyond that its especially important for any mercenary corporation. A killboard to a mercenary corporation is their portfolio to future clients, they want to be able to accurately and easily show how much damage in pure ISK they can inflict on the people they are hired to fight. So that when a client is weighing his options, he has a numeric value to assign to the pain and loss he would be bringing his enemies. Those who lose ships don't just lost the ISK they paid for the ship, they lose the ISK they paid for each mod and rig. When you hire a mercenary corporation, your causing your enemy to lose that much ISK with each lost and are paying the mercenaries for a ratio of those results. You invest 4 billion, your enemy loses 8 billion. The clients happy that they are 4 billion ahead of their enemy, the mercenaries are happy they made 4 billion. Everyones happy...minus the target. Edit: Which the targets unhappiness is the whole point of the contract in the first place mind you.
Loqiel Caldari Legio Fortunae	Posted - 2009.11.13 15:24:00 - [220] When a ship is blown up, all should be considered lost. Just as there is no way of telling the insurance payout for a ship lost, there is no telling which side looted the wreck, or even if a third party did it; those modules should be considered forfeit and added to the ISK lost. Now, if Noir is artificially enhancing their killboard numbers by using inflated values on modules and ships, then that's a more serious charge, but I seriously doubt a corp of their repute would risk their name by cooking the books in such an obvious and ultimately damaging way. "A good plan executed violently now is better than a perfect plan executed sometime in the future." -Gen. George Patton

Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.13 15:31:00 - [221] Edited by: Grimpak on 13/11/2009 15:35:10 Originally by: Dawggysnax So I've asked one of my friends, who's a long EDK developer (and now a co-hoster at eve-kill.net). Why doesn't EDK take into account modules? Answer was simple: because you never know who looted the field. You know for sure what ships were destroyed, and thats it. in the grand majority of our engagements we manage to actually get the loot, or else we wouldn't be able to extract over 6 (or was it 8?) GSC's out of providence with the loot we "extracted" out of the hulls we burned there. for the job we were hired by M'K, I think we also managed to get a hefty payout in terms of loot, but I'm not the guy with the numbers. And while I agree with the part of only counting with the hull value in Kboards, that is only really feasible if you always leave wrecks behind in the battlefield, or you don't expect to recover the loot every time you have an engagement (IE, mostly 0.0 territorial wars where most of the loot is probably vapourised either to smartbombs, DDD's, and/or killed in transport to someone's hangar. I myself however have a "can't loot it, shoot it if you can" policy. That way, I can be sure that the loot was really destroyed. Originally by: Loqiel Now, if Noir is artificially enhancing their killboard numbers by using inflated values on modules and ships, then that's a more serious charge, but I seriously doubt a corp of their repute would risk their name by cooking the books in such an obvious and ultimately damaging way. I, at least, try to keep tabs on market value of modules, specially when it's faction/deadspace/officer, and even more importantly, if we happen to loot it. also, the kboard is public and everyone's free to check the module's worth and then verify if the price is around market, ingame. oh and hi von \o --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Kelron Andus Paisti	Posted - 2009.11.13 15:32:00 - [222] Some people need all they can get to boost up their horrible efficiency LOL! Nice 75% Noir., even with your cheating.
RedSplat Noir.	Posted - 2009.11.13 15:39:00 - [223] Edited by: RedSplat on 13/11/2009 15:40:01 'Cheating'? I wonder if he will back that up anything more than baseless accusations. People so rarely do when smacktalking Noir. RE: KB Inconsistencies are introduced when you consider shiny faction stuff. I believe a Tengu was popped in the contract that was worth over a Billion isk in damages alone. The KB values, i believe they are taken fromm EVE central. You can hear all about how our KB is linked to EVE central in Declarations of War Pod Cast 9 http://podlogs.com/declarationsofwar EDIT: Bad Spelling is infectious Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Jack Dant Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre	Posted - 2009.11.13 20:26:00 - [224] Originally by: Dawggysnax About a year ago I helped someone's alliance migrate from GW (GriefWatch) killboard to EDK (Eve Development Killboard). And, as a lot of you know, EDK does NOT take into account destroyed mods, NOT EVEN loot. Of course, my mate was furious, their ratios were in the 50-60%, while GW was showing a lot better numbers. I fail to see why you think taking destroyed mods into account is worse than looted ones. The destroyed mods are obviously lost to both sides, so they are part of the damaged inflicted. You could argue back and forth about dropped mods (I think they are part of the inflicted damage too, because very rarely they are returned to the original owner), but destroyed ones seem pretty clear.
Insurgent540 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.14 02:58:00 - [225] I have to confess to being a n00b to all things mercenary, including contracts used etc. Firstly I would like to thank all who have posted for improving my knowledge of how the 'merc system' works. Secondly, Alekseyev Props for the efforts you have gone to in order to reconcile the issue with MK. As many have stated they would not have accepted (40%?) of the total bill in order to seek closure however, imho isk in the hand is better than none and a prospect of 'time wasted' in order to extract payment via 'other means'. Finally for the record, this post does not reflect the opinions of either my corp or alliance. All grammar and spelling mistakes I take full credit for in advance!
Raiiden Gallente Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.14 05:04:00 - [226] Originally by: Dawggysnax I'm in no way affiliated with either Noir or M'K, but there are some facts to be pointed. Quote: Noir. does an astounding job This coming in regard to their contract for M'K. But really.. how performant was Noir in this contract? Their kb says 10.65bn, however these numbers don't add up when broken down. Lets detail a bit, taking Jita prices as reference. BC \| 13x 30mil (harbi 30, most expensive) \| 390mil BS \| 12x 80mil (megas 73) \| 960mil CS \| 1x 160mil \| 160mil covops \| 14x 15mil \| 210mil cruiser \| 6x 10mil \| 60mil HAC \| 5x 115mil (vagas 105, ishtars 112) \| 575mil HIC \| 2x 115mil \| 230mil logistics \| 7x 80mil \| 560mil recons \| 4x 100mil \| 400mil T3 \| 1x 600mil (boat + subsystems) \| 600mil ------ 4145mil (4.14bn) +500mil (rigs) ------ 4645mil (4.64bn) I've just put up the bulk of their kills from the contract, if 100mil in frigs and some other stuff is missing from my analysis.. sorry but it's not relevant. So.. what we got is 4.14bn so far. I haven't checked the individual kills, so prices put are really mild (could be a lot of 50mil dominixes in there for all I care). At any rate, it's 4bn so far. To be fair lets add another 500mil in rigs (again very generous, idk how many ships were actually rigged), and there you have it 4.64bn. Now.. how the hell do we jump from 4.64bn to what their kb is saying (10.65bn). Where's the rest of 6bn? Explanation is quite simple. The Noir "pros" are taking into account all mods, even destroyed mods when calculating damage inflicted. Which not only is lame in itself, but it's a scam when you're charging clients based on those numbers. Sorry Alex, but you're boosting contract prices for higher revenue. It's simple as that. When you said "50% of what we kill", you knew exactly what you were doing. About a year ago I helped someone's alliance migrate from GW (GriefWatch) killboard to EDK (Eve Development Killboard). And, as a lot of you know, EDK does NOT take into account destroyed mods, NOT EVEN loot. Of course, my mate was furious, their ratios were in the 50-60%, while GW was showing a lot better numbers. So I've asked one of my friends, who's a long EDK developer (and now a co-hoster at eve-kill.net). Why doesn't EDK take into account modules? Answer was simple: because you never know who looted the field. You know for sure what ships were destroyed, and thats it. I can see Noir has gone a long way to redo the code in their kb (EDK based) so it includes EVERYTHING, but it's not representative for what happens in the field, not by a long shot. And to actually charge people based on those pimped numbers.. only a fool would pay. Great characters on both sides. Eve at its finest. Very eloquently put good sir. I think that all discerning future clientele should consider these findings in thier contract considerations. -Raiiden One image per signature please. Zymurgist
Keria Matsuma	Posted - 2009.11.14 05:18:00 - [227] Originally by: Raiiden Originally by: Dawggysnax I'm in no way affiliated with either Noir or M'K, but there are some facts to be pointed. Quote: Noir. does an astounding job This coming in regard to their contract for M'K. But really.. how performant was Noir in this contract? Their kb says 10.65bn, however these numbers don't add up when broken down. Lets detail a bit, taking Jita prices as reference. BC \| 13x 30mil (harbi 30, most expensive) \| 390mil BS \| 12x 80mil (megas 73) \| 960mil CS \| 1x 160mil \| 160mil covops \| 14x 15mil \| 210mil cruiser \| 6x 10mil \| 60mil HAC \| 5x 115mil (vagas 105, ishtars 112) \| 575mil HIC \| 2x 115mil \| 230mil logistics \| 7x 80mil \| 560mil recons \| 4x 100mil \| 400mil T3 \| 1x 600mil (boat + subsystems) \| 600mil ------ 4145mil (4.14bn) +500mil (rigs) ------ 4645mil (4.64bn) I've just put up the bulk of their kills from the contract, if 100mil in frigs and some other stuff is missing from my analysis.. sorry but it's not relevant. So.. what we got is 4.14bn so far. I haven't checked the individual kills, so prices put are really mild (could be a lot of 50mil dominixes in there for all I care). At any rate, it's 4bn so far. To be fair lets add another 500mil in rigs (again very generous, idk how many ships were actually rigged), and there you have it 4.64bn. Now.. how the hell do we jump from 4.64bn to what their kb is saying (10.65bn). Where's the rest of 6bn? Explanation is quite simple. The Noir "pros" are taking into account all mods, even destroyed mods when calculating damage inflicted. Which not only is lame in itself, but it's a scam when you're charging clients based on those numbers. Sorry Alex, but you're boosting contract prices for higher revenue. It's simple as that. When you said "50% of what we kill", you knew exactly what you were doing. About a year ago I helped someone's alliance migrate from GW (GriefWatch) killboard to EDK (Eve Development Killboard). And, as a lot of you know, EDK does NOT take into account destroyed mods, NOT EVEN loot. Of course, my mate was furious, their ratios were in the 50-60%, while GW was showing a lot better numbers. So I've asked one of my friends, who's a long EDK developer (and now a co-hoster at eve-kill.net). Why doesn't EDK take into account modules? Answer was simple: because you never know who looted the field. You know for sure what ships were destroyed, and thats it. I can see Noir has gone a long way to redo the code in their kb (EDK based) so it includes EVERYTHING, but it's not representative for what happens in the field, not by a long shot. And to actually charge people based on those pimped numbers.. only a fool would pay. Great characters on both sides. Eve at its finest. Very eloquently put good sir. I think that all discerning future clientele should consider these findings in thier contract considerations. -Raiiden All mercenaries take loot into account. If you don't like it, don't hire them.
Miyamoto Isoruku Caldari The Phoenix Enclave	Posted - 2009.11.14 05:20:00 - [228] Edited by: Miyamoto Isoruku on 14/11/2009 05:20:35 Originally by: Raiiden Very eloquently put good sir. I think that all discerning future clientele should consider these findings in thier contract considerations. -Raiiden I think all discerning mercenaries should consider this thread before ever accepting a contract from the likes of Maru Ka'ge. Alek was too kind to you--if I were running Noir. I wouldn't have called anything off until I had the 5 bil, with interest, or until your alliance was dead. That, I suppose, is yet another reason why Alek is running one of the best merc corps in the game and I am griefing carebears in empire. I find it even more laughable that you all evidently expected that paying Noir. 40% of what you owed them would get you blue status--i.e., the only thing on God's green earth that would obligate Noir. not to kill you. The fact that your alliance leader was evidently too stupid to understand some very simple contract terms and check Noir.'s killboard despite Alek's explicit warning that he do so speaks very, very poorly of you and yours. Although it goes against every instinct in my body, I'm going to give Maru Ka'ge some free advice: quit while you're not so far behind. TLDR: You fail, Sick Boy fails, your whole ****ing alliance fails. You should disband your alliance, quit EVE, and give me all your stuff. Hope this helps!
Raiiden Gallente Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.14 05:54:00 - [229] Originally by: Miyamoto Isoruku Edited by: Miyamoto Isoruku on 14/11/2009 05:20:35 Originally by: Raiiden Very eloquently put good sir. I think that all discerning future clientele should consider these findings in thier contract considerations. -Raiiden I think all discerning mercenaries should consider this thread before ever accepting a contract from the likes of Maru Ka'ge. Take note, Not possible to extort. I am griefing carebears in empire. Although it goes against every instinct in my body, I'm going to give Maru Ka'ge some free advice: never let raiiden raise his sec status because if he did i would do the following... TLDR: fail, fails, ****ing fail. disband my alliance, quit EVE, and give you all my stuff. Hope this helps! One image per signature please. Zymurgist
HanDeD Silastic Armourfiends of Striterax	Posted - 2009.11.14 09:57:00 - [230] /me is almost out of popcorn Ubernothing and wannabe pirate.

Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.11.14 11:05:00 - [231] Originally by: Raiiden edit: I'd also like to add that so far noir's efficency is 50% as shown by thier own campaign against us, 53% of thier current kills against us being t1 cyno frigs, and a t1 destroyer, and thier subsequent pods. who you gonna call? Maru Ka Ge! I'm quoting this NOW, so when your big mouth comes to bite you on the ass, I will have it handy.
Raiiden Gallente Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.14 17:42:00 - [232] please do so far im 100% vs noir lol, i can make it 500% today if youd like lol! if you didnt know now you know... dont !@#$ with MK. Originally by: Helicity Boson Originally by: Raiiden edit: I'd also like to add that so far noir's efficency is 50% as shown by thier own campaign against us, 53% of thier current kills against us being t1 cyno frigs, and a t1 destroyer, and thier subsequent pods. who you gonna call? Maru Ka Ge! I'm quoting this NOW, so when your big mouth comes to bite you on the ass, I will have it handy. One image per signature please. Zymurgist
Mickey Simon Blutkinder	Posted - 2009.11.14 17:46:00 - [233] Originally by: Raiiden please do so far im 100% vs noir lol, i can make it 500% today if youd like lol! if you didnt know now you know... dont !@#$ with MK. So you're just blobbing them and killing them when they screw up? Noir. is also guilty of this a lot of the time. Spoiler: Winning with numbers and by ganking does not make you a good pvper, or a force to be reckoned with (unless you're going for sov etc). What it makes you is a bunch of pilots who can't fly for **** who need to gang up to get their kills. It's not boastworthy, and it certainly doesn't reflect on you as a good pvper.
Jarik Utoni Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.14 18:18:00 - [234] I'm siding with Noir. Because they have better sigs then Maru'Kage and i don't like the perpetually Sick Boy. But mostly because i like Noir. sigs ---- -Jarik Utoni, Stealthbomber Pilot d(^.^)b
Nimmu	Posted - 2009.11.14 18:28:00 - [235] My five cents. Noir. was not clear in thoroughly explaining the specifics of the contract. The person who hired them should have asked for clarification before agreeing. The person who hired them is at greater fault than Noir. is, but... Noir. is still quite suspect here. Look at this kill: http://noir.pinacoderm.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=6850 50% of this kill's value was included in the total amount owed. Certainly, the person doing the hiring stated "kill everything in X area", which is literally interpreted as just that, "everything". But, a faction fitted CS from a newb corp, which dropped some nice loot, do you really think that the person hiring Noir. intended to pay them ~600M ISK to kill this type of ship in the target area? Would you feel like you were being hustled, if you were asked to dish out 600M for a kill like this one? With MK's general ineptitude set aside, I find that I am able to empathize with their position. If anything, Noir. should man up and negotiate more aggressively. I understand that the situation is resolved, so it is irrelevant now anyways, but: All I see in the first two pages of this thread are an attempt by Noir. to use their name to steamroll some fail alliance for a lot more ISK than their services are worth, and that fail alliance's feeble attempt to resist the hustle. I certainly don't see much in the way of 'professionalism' or any attempt at proper conflict resolution. Buyer beware. Opinion only.
RedSplat Noir.	Posted - 2009.11.14 18:34:00 - [236] Conflict resolution: Aleks plumped for a reduced fee as MK were too poor to stump up the full value. Professionalism: In the context of merc work, which is least professional: 1.) Letting a contractor get away with breaking a contract. 2.) Negotiating a reduced fee as the contractor cant afford to pay what he owes as he didn't follow protocol that was outlined in the contract very clearly. Post with your main/Corp tickers on etc... Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Srialia Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.11.14 19:04:00 - [237] If they wanted specific targets killed, they should have contracted for specific targets. "Everything" means everything, and yes, if I contract mercs to kill "everything" and they come up with a billion ISK faction fit kill, I would fully expect that to be added to my bill. If you have a budget and you hire a large group of established mercs to "kill everything," there are only two reasons not to specify your limit ahead of time. Either you're hopeless moron, or you are already planning on stiffing them once you get the bill. I don't know, if I had to hire mercenaries to do something for me, that would mean I wasn't powerful enough to do it myself. Logically, any mercs I hired would be more powerful than me. I would be hesitant to **** them off, both for my own safety and because I might want to have ANY CHANCE AT ALL of hiring any mercs in the future, ever.
Nimmu	Posted - 2009.11.14 19:09:00 - [238] Originally by: RedSplat I don't think you do think things are resolved. I don't think you think it is irrelevant. I don't really fancy reading through all of the emotional argument/opinion within this thread, so I stopped after page two. From a few of the comments that I read on this page, I gather that it was all sorted out. Quote: Conflict resolution: Aleks plumped for a reduced fee as MK were too poor to stump up the full value. Professionalism: In the context of merc work, which is least professional: 1.) Letting a contractor get away with breaking a contract. 2.) Negotiating a reduced fee as the contractor cant afford to pay what he owes as he didn't follow protocol that was outlined in the contract very clearly. Post with your main/Corp tickers on etc... I don't think that he understood what he was agreeing to. I do not think that you can realistically describe your initial communication as "very clear". In my opinion, what he agreed to was quite unreasonable. But that's just my opinion, and his fault for agreeing without requesting clarification or 'fine print'. As I said up front, the person who hired Noir. is at greater account than your organization is in this situation. And was the "reduced fee" the starting offer for "A flat 4.9 Billion"? If so, lol. But as I said, I'm probably missing something beyond the initial exchanges which took place, as I did not read the second half of the thread or see how the situation was resolved. I am just commenting on what happened in the initial exchanges, that's all. This is my main.
RedSplat Noir.	Posted - 2009.11.14 19:18:00 - [239] Originally by: Nimmu I am just commenting on what happened in the initial exchanges, that's all. I think you should read the whole thread and comment on more than initial exchanges. Of particular interest is a post by Taram somewhere that highlights the relevant clause('s) in the contract that are particularly relevant. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Generic Spaceman	Posted - 2009.11.14 22:37:00 - [240] Edited by: Generic Spaceman on 14/11/2009 22:39:55 Originally by: Raiiden edit: I'd also like to add that so far noir's efficency is 50% as shown by thier own campaign against us, 53% of thier current kills against us being t1 cyno frigs, and a t1 destroyer, and thier subsequent pods. who you gonna call? Maru Ka Ge! 70% and rising from the look of the Noir. KB. Keep flapping those gums. EDIT: Taram is teh sexah.

Vonlin Twisted Legion	Posted - 2009.11.15 00:02:00 - [241] Originally by: Nimmu My five cents. Noir. was not clear in thoroughly explaining the specifics of the contract. What isn't clear about paying 50% of everything killed in XYZ systems? Originally by: Nimmu Noir. is still quite suspect here. Look at this kill: http://noir.pinacoderm.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=6850 50% of this kill's value was included in the total amount owed. Certainly, the person doing the hiring stated "kill everything in X area", which is literally interpreted as just that, "everything". But, a faction fitted CS from a newb corp, which dropped some nice loot, do you really think that the person hiring Noir. intended to pay them ~600M ISK to kill this type of ship in the target area? Yes. Its a ship. Its in the required area. The contract was to kill all ships in the required area. It doesn't matter how stupid the client was in designing the contract, he designed it and agreed to it, he and noir therefore both have to uphold it. Just because someone is stupid when signing a contract does mean they get out of the contract later when their stupidity is realized.
Alekseyev Karrde Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.15 04:03:00 - [242] Originally by: Nimmu But, a faction fitted CS from a newb corp, which dropped some nice loot, do you really think that the person hiring Noir. intended to pay them ~600M ISK to kill this type of ship in the target area? Would you feel like you were being hustled, if you were asked to dish out 600M for a kill like this one? With MK's general ineptitude set aside, I find that I am able to empathize with their position. If anything, Noir. should man up and negotiate more aggressively. I understand that the situation is resolved, so it is irrelevant now anyways, but: All I see in the first two pages of this thread are an attempt by Noir. to use their name to steamroll some fail alliance for a lot more ISK than their services are worth, and that fail alliance's feeble attempt to resist the hustle. I certainly don't see much in the way of 'professionalism' or any attempt at proper conflict resolution. Maru alt: if you read the conversation mediated by Minigin I acknowledged that thought the contract explicitly stated kill everything, I'd be willing to waive off the highly valued Tengu and Nighthawk kills given who the pilots were. Maru still could not make their required payment, but in the end i decided to take ISK in hand. There's plenty of room to disagree about this conflict resolution approach, but in light of the poorly executed and poorly veiled attempt to accuse Noir. of extortion and torpedo my CSM campaign after the compromise was reached, if anything I was too lenient. Now my only consolation is the delicious irony and parade of tears that is Maru being mad that after they effectively got their bill reduced by over 60% no amount of ISK they have offered or will offer will ever get them standings. Which all in all isnt so bad really... --- Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam
Puppy UK	Posted - 2009.11.15 06:07:00 - [243] Long time no see Alec, im still waiting for more poddy casts, id be happy to throw some iskies your way to see you continue to kick MK around a little. Mebby we could start a syndicate. Refreshing to see you guys around Fade/PB, been fun. Beats kicking MK around while they hide and smackl local :D /me awaits allaince fine I FC Bestest Drunkies
Altaica Amur Ichizoku	Posted - 2009.11.15 06:52:00 - [244] Fully supporting Noir's viewpoint here, Alek seems to be remarkably patient and reasonable as far as alliance heads go, given the comments made both by other Noir personnel and observers they should be quite happy to have him where he's at. Though some would point out that MK's ... issues should have been foreseen it seems to me that unless the campaign was more costly then I imagine there was little risk and potentially a good reward involved. It's that risk to reward idea that interests me because while I think Noir should have been paid the full contracted amount I'm not sure the pricing structure does a good job of balancing the concerns of the merc and the wallet of the contractor. While I would say that destroyed items, even faction should count as part of the contract, as it still costs the enemy isk, moreso even then t1 hulls I would suggest that a sliding scale should be in place to take into account the risk undertaken by the merc. My idea was a flat fee for the presence of the mercs and a sliding scale for the isk damage to be paid back to the merc, an inverse of their isk efficiency. This would both promote kills on the part of the merc corp as 100% of 0isk damage delt is still 0isk while also acknowledging the risks, or lack of risks taken by the mercs in question. If they have to toe to toe with large gangs and take losses for it they should be paid accordingly and vice versa the employer probably shouldn't have to pay 50% on top of a lucky gank of a JF where no losses were taken and millions or billions of isk were looted after wards. x+((-z+1)y) = isk x = Flat fee y = Damage done z = isk efficiency To insure that the mercs are doing better then simply breaking even having a minimum 10% of damage paid or putting an outright buff to the % of damage paid would also likely be necessary to insure that highly efficient groups that get close to 100% efficiency aren't punished unduly. x+((-z+1.1)y) = isk Just some thoughts from reading what was a very entertaining thread.
Erichk Knaar Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.15 07:09:00 - [245] Originally by: Altaica Amur ... Interesting, and noted. I don't speak for any mercs in saying whether it is good or not, but I will play with the formula on some data to see if this kind of thing is worth adding as an option to killboard autocalcs.
Nimmu	Posted - 2009.11.15 09:11:00 - [246] Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde Maru alt: if you read the conversation mediated by Minigin I acknowledged that thought the contract explicitly stated kill everything, I'd be willing to waive off the highly valued Tengu and Nighthawk kills given who the pilots were. Maru still could not make their required payment, but in the end i decided to take ISK in hand. There's plenty of room to disagree about this conflict resolution approach, but in light of the poorly executed and poorly veiled attempt to accuse Noir. of extortion and torpedo my CSM campaign after the compromise was reached, if anything I was too lenient. Now my only consolation is the delicious irony and parade of tears that is Maru being mad that after they effectively got their bill reduced by over 60% no amount of ISK they have offered or will offer will ever get them standings. Which all in all isnt so bad really... Not a Maru Alt, not accusing anyone of straightforward extortion, not interested in CSM. Try to mitigate the weight of my words? Obviously I should have read the entire 8 page thread, whining, emotional opinion, blatent flaming (for, as stated several times already, a largely at-fault customer of Noir.) and all. I am still not impressed by the initial contract terms; obviously Sick Guy should not have agreed to them, but on the same hand you knew full well what you were doing when you presented such terms to him. A '60% discount' off of an outrageous bill certainly seems fair in any case...
Nimmu	Posted - 2009.11.15 09:54:00 - [247] Originally by: Vonlin What isn't clear about paying 50% of everything killed in XYZ systems? You are surely kidding me. Their conversation and initial agreement is almost incoherent. Sick Guy can barely get an idea across without mangling it, and most of what he does produce is wide open to selective interpretation. If I were to hire mercenaries, the terms of payment and contract objectives would be explicit and very, very clearly phrased. As would my budget, my price expectations, and my timeline expectations. His fault. You are reading my opinion the wrong way. You are reading this as a scathing criticism of Noir., or an attempt to slander them, accuse them of outright extortion and bad business. I strongly believe that the employer's ineptitude is largely responsible for the subsequent drama which we have here in this thread. However, as stated before, I still believe that Noir.'s structuring of this contract and its actualization reflects a deliberate abuse of a client's ineptitude or lack of clarity. 2B seems pretty fair in light of everything; it is too bad that the Sick Guy didn't set that price expectation to begin with. He probably could have had them for a week at that amount.
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.15 10:22:00 - [248] Originally by: Nimmu I still believe that Noir.'s structuring of this contract and its actualization represents an attempt at deliberate abuse of a client's ineptitude or lack of clarity. In that case, I'll simply state: You are wrong. Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast
Kim Chubby Demonic Empire Everto Rex Regis	Posted - 2009.11.15 11:12:00 - [249] I'm siding with Noir. as well because they stated what the contract was to be, and MK didn't tell them what the budget they had in the first place. Whenever you seek out services from any company, RL or in a game, you want to be quoted (which MK asked for and got) then you make sure that quote coincides with their own budget. If you only had a set amount set aside for the services that Noir. provides, you should tell that merc company that in the first place. That way, Noir. would stop when they reached the designated target price. Personally, I see nothing wrong in the actions and invoice that Alek has posted. It makes sense to me, and I think if I had been an alliance that hired Noir. I'd make sure they got paid for their actions. They did a fine job, and did what they were hired for. Noir. deserves to get paid in full or destroy everything MK has until that 4.9 bn has been reached. I'm glad Noir. took a stand, and would hope all other Merc groups do the same in the future in the event this kind of situation occurs to them.
Dray Caldari The Water Margin Tech	Posted - 2009.11.15 11:52:00 - [250] Originally by: Nimmu I strongly believe that the employer's ineptitude is largely responsible for the subsequent drama which we have here in this thread. Says it all. Originally by: Nimmu However, as stated before, I still believe that Noir.'s structuring of this contract and its actualization represents an attempt at deliberate abuse of a client's ineptitude or lack of clarity. Sick stated what he wanted, Alex stated what he would do and what it would cost. He cant be held responsible for dealing with an idiot who cant understand what was clearly put in front of him, or question fully the implications of what hes agreeing to. The only thing Noir have done wrong, afaic, is deal with someone dumb enough to lose a game of charades to stevie wonder and your blaming them for it.

Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.11.15 15:46:00 - [251] It's hilarious that people are trying to defend maru. When Aleks first said '50% of what we kill' , Sick boy should have IMMEDIATELY clarified the damage to what, and if mod were to be included. EVERYONE with even a passing familiarity with killboards knows that isk damage inflicted includes loot dropped, mods destroyed, hulls without insurance, and rigs. Because thats the value of the kill. Doesn't matter if Noir scooped up a bil in mods from a kill, they denied the person they killed the value of those mods. You can't just say that its the value of the hulls killed, because its clear to all but the clinically stupid that ANY well rigged and set-up ship will cost a great deal more, even if just with t1 rigs and t2 fits. Oh btw, I noticed a DG boost amp herevalued at 350k, which is CLEARLY the right price . People can ***** and moan all they like about how its unfair to charge for this and that, but if you have a problem with being charged for it, then you should have asked before hand. Noir. do a superb job, and how much they deserve to be paid is entirely in the eye of the beholder. People who say that the amount asked for was unfair don't understand how frikkin dangerous it is to go out with a small fleet into NPC 0.0 with no standings is, especially when the target is 'everyone' for a set period of time. You can't just bail back to empire when people log off, or when bigger gangs show up. It needs patience, skill, dedication and co-ordination, and that doesn't come cheap. At time of writing, maru are getting a nice beat down from their former employees, which is just lolable. I love how the only 'official' MK responces are 'well I'M at 500% efficiency against noir'. I love how they don't give a crap about their alliance members who are getting slapped around all day. You personally aren't loosing anything so its ok ? Right. Sure. That's awesome leadership there
RedSplat Noir.	Posted - 2009.11.15 16:27:00 - [252] You seem pretty personally invested in establishing that Noir. are evil, evil extorting unprofessional Mercenaries Nema. Would you like a hug? Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Shinma Apollo Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON	Posted - 2009.11.15 16:44:00 - [253] Apparently, we too are vacationing. Having 2 blues is painful to my no-standings backbone, but we've had a great opportunity to get to know a couple merc corps better. BTW, Alek and fear, can you two hit up either mini or myself. Oh, public endorsement for ELVENLORD. Remember: For tireless CSM, think furry***, think ELVENLORD.
Suas Perkone	Posted - 2009.11.15 16:55:00 - [254] Sad I missed out on this. Maru Ka'ge is an even bigger laughing stock than MH is. They are BRUCE level bad. _________________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE!
Kera Delacour Royal Black Watch Highlanders	Posted - 2009.11.15 17:33:00 - [255] Edited by: Kera Delacour on 15/11/2009 17:33:22 Noir ftw tbh.
Taram Caldar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.15 17:37:00 - [256] Originally by: Loqiel When a ship is blown up, all should be considered lost. Just as there is no way of telling the insurance payout for a ship lost, there is no telling which side looted the wreck, or even if a third party did it; those modules should be considered forfeit and added to the ISK lost. Now, if Noir is artificially enhancing their killboard numbers by using inflated values on modules and ships, then that's a more serious charge, but I seriously doubt a corp of their repute would risk their name by cooking the books in such an obvious and ultimately damaging way. Actually if anyone finds modules or ship hulls miss-valued on our KB please go to our public forums and post telling us both the item that's in error and the correct in-game price. We'll get it corrected in the DB as soon as we possibly can. We are constantly correcting prices on faction items and ships because not only are those prices important to properly charge our customers but also to properly pay our pilots. We don't monkey with Market sellable items typically because EVE-Central tracks that pretty well even if it's not always 100% perfect it's usually close enough for our purposes. Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
Doctor Cal'torien Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.15 18:53:00 - [257] i really do like this thread, very funny LOLZ also, Sex --- YOUR BABIES ARE TASTY Originally by: Nadarius Chrome "Set artillery to stun!"
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.15 20:19:00 - [258] Originally by: Katarlia Simov Oh btw, I noticed a DG boost amp herevalued at 350k, which is CLEARLY the right price . must warn aleks about that. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Vonlin Twisted Legion	Posted - 2009.11.15 21:41:00 - [259] Originally by: Nimmu Edited by: Nimmu on 15/11/2009 09:55:30 Originally by: Vonlin What isn't clear about paying 50% of everything killed in XYZ systems? You are surely kidding me. Their conversation and initial agreement is almost incoherent. Sick Guy can barely get an idea across without mangling it, and most of what he does produce is wide open to selective interpretation. If I were to hire mercenaries, the terms of payment and contract objectives would be explicit and very, very clearly phrased. As would my budget, my price expectations, and my timeline expectations. His fault. You are reading my opinion the wrong way. You are reading this as a scathing criticism of Noir., or an attempt to slander them, accuse them of outright extortion and bad business. I strongly believe that the employer's ineptitude is largely responsible for the subsequent drama which we have here in this thread. However, as stated before, I still believe that Noir.'s structuring of this contract and its actualization represents an attempt at deliberate abuse of a client's ineptitude or lack of clarity. I surely am not kidding you. Deliberate abuse of a client's ineptitude? Its not a contract manger's responsibility to sit down and hold the hand of a client and baby them, they are negotiators. They should treat them with respect and help them reach an agreement that is beneficial to both parties, but they are not the client's parent, they are not there to tell them they are making a bad life choice. Lack of clarity? Again, how do you get more clear than 50% of whats killed in XYZ systems? There doesn't seem much room for confusion there. Any ships we kill in these systems, you will have to pay us 50% of the ISK damage. How is that misleading? Seems pretty clear to me.
Taram Caldar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.15 22:00:00 - [260] Originally by: Vonlin Originally by: Nimmu Edited by: Nimmu on 15/11/2009 09:55:30 Originally by: Vonlin What isn't clear about paying 50% of everything killed in XYZ systems? You are surely kidding me. Their conversation and initial agreement is almost incoherent. Sick Guy can barely get an idea across without mangling it, and most of what he does produce is wide open to selective interpretation. If I were to hire mercenaries, the terms of payment and contract objectives would be explicit and very, very clearly phrased. As would my budget, my price expectations, and my timeline expectations. His fault. You are reading my opinion the wrong way. You are reading this as a scathing criticism of Noir., or an attempt to slander them, accuse them of outright extortion and bad business. I strongly believe that the employer's ineptitude is largely responsible for the subsequent drama which we have here in this thread. However, as stated before, I still believe that Noir.'s structuring of this contract and its actualization represents an attempt at deliberate abuse of a client's ineptitude or lack of clarity. I surely am not kidding you. Deliberate abuse of a client's ineptitude? Its not a contract manger's responsibility to sit down and hold the hand of a client and baby them, they are negotiators. They should treat them with respect and help them reach an agreement that is beneficial to both parties, but they are not the client's parent, they are not there to tell them they are making a bad life choice. Lack of clarity? Again, how do you get more clear than 50% of whats killed in XYZ systems? There doesn't seem much room for confusion there. Any ships we kill in these systems, you will have to pay us 50% of the ISK damage. How is that misleading? Seems pretty clear to me. It's also important to note that they could have negotiated for any number of other payment meathods. Every contract Noir. does is unique to the client. We don't have a flat pricing system, it depends on what the client and Alek agree to. If he didn't like the terms of the agreement he could have offered a different one. We've done flat rate contracts, pay per kill contracts, performance benchmark contracts etc. It really depends on what the client wants and what Alek and the Client agree to. Not our fault at all that the client agreed to a very clear pricing scheme and didn't want to live up to their end of the bargain. Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples

Xiaodown Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2009.11.16 18:06:00 - [261] Originally by: Taram Caldar It's also important to note that they could have negotiated for any number of other payment meathods. Every contract Noir. does is unique to the client. We don't have a flat pricing system, it depends on what the client and Alek agree to. If he didn't like the terms of the agreement he could have offered a different one. We've done flat rate contracts, pay per kill contracts, performance benchmark contracts etc. It really depends on what the client wants and what Alek and the Client agree to. Not our fault at all that the client agreed to a very clear pricing scheme and didn't want to live up to their end of the bargain. Everyone who hires a Merc should explicitly add the following to their contract: "(terms of payment...) up to a maximum of X isk." How is that something that people fail to do? (sup taram!) --
Pater Peccavi Minmatar The Bastards	Posted - 2009.11.16 18:21:00 - [262] Originally by: Xiaodown Originally by: Taram Caldar It's also important to note that they could have negotiated for any number of other payment meathods. Every contract Noir. does is unique to the client. We don't have a flat pricing system, it depends on what the client and Alek agree to. If he didn't like the terms of the agreement he could have offered a different one. We've done flat rate contracts, pay per kill contracts, performance benchmark contracts etc. It really depends on what the client wants and what Alek and the Client agree to. Not our fault at all that the client agreed to a very clear pricing scheme and didn't want to live up to their end of the bargain. Everyone who hires a Merc should explicitly add the following to their contract: "(terms of payment...) up to a maximum of X isk." How is that something that people fail to do? (sup taram!) People should always use written contracts and receipts for any business deal, but if they did shows like Judge Judy and The People's Court wouldn't have any litigants. Since those shows are going strong, clearly we can conclude that people are idiots, both ingame and IRL. _________
Awesome Possum Imperium Signal Corps	Posted - 2009.11.16 18:32:00 - [263] I would like to contract Noir. to do approximately 100k isk worth of damage to Creone's ship. Contact me in game. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Sick Boy Minmatar Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.16 18:58:00 - [264] Ok I don't post a lot but the amount alek is lying is amazing. He should be ashamed of himself as a man. He has doctored the original deal contract chat log. The part he is leaving out that is important is that I SPECIFICALLY told him that PL had left system and that their would be no need to attack everyhthing around x-7 because the enemy was no longer there. I told him the SPECIFIC target was now MUTINY alliance in the ONE system of ROIR. Even the leaders of MUTINY know they were NOIRs target. Not like it was a surprise to anyone. So for alek to say that the contract was for EVERYTHING around is a complete lie and deep down he knows it, mutiny knows it, but he comes on here and lies to everyone and his own members about what the true contract was. Why would I care about roaming NC gangs? SO keep lying about what the contract really was alek, and that is all I am going to say about this situation.
Kan3r Blaze Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.16 19:08:00 - [265] Originally by: Sick Boy Ok I don't post a lot but the amount alek is lying is amazing. He should be ashamed of himself as a man. He has doctored the original deal contract chat log. The part he is leaving out that is important is that I SPECIFICALLY told him that PL had left system and that their would be no need to attack everyhthing around x-7 because the enemy was no longer there. I told him the SPECIFIC target was now MUTINY alliance in the ONE system of ROIR. Even the leaders of MUTINY know they were NOIRs target. Not like it was a surprise to anyone. So for alek to say that the contract was for EVERYTHING around is a complete lie and deep down he knows it, mutiny knows it, but he comes on here and lies to everyone and his own members about what the true contract was. Why would I care about roaming NC gangs? SO keep lying about what the contract really was alek, and that is all I am going to say about this situation. May I ask why you've only now just brought that up after 5 days, and why you didn't mention it in any one of your four other posts in this thread? Declarations of War - Revisted - Home of the Noir. podcast
Raiiden Gallente Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.16 19:20:00 - [266] we have actually repeatedly mentioned this, but everybody seems to be in the habit of ostritch holing thier head in the ground and yelling NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE. ^^ highly professional dont you think? Originally by: Kan3r Blaze Originally by: Sick Boy Ok I don't post a lot but the amount alek is lying is amazing. He should be ashamed of himself as a man. He has doctored the original deal contract chat log. The part he is leaving out that is important is that I SPECIFICALLY told him that PL had left system and that their would be no need to attack everyhthing around x-7 because the enemy was no longer there. I told him the SPECIFIC target was now MUTINY alliance in the ONE system of ROIR. Even the leaders of MUTINY know they were NOIRs target. Not like it was a surprise to anyone. So for alek to say that the contract was for EVERYTHING around is a complete lie and deep down he knows it, mutiny knows it, but he comes on here and lies to everyone and his own members about what the true contract was. Why would I care about roaming NC gangs? SO keep lying about what the contract really was alek, and that is all I am going to say about this situation. May I ask why you've only now just brought that up after 5 days, and why you didn't mention it in any one of your four other posts in this thread? One image per signature please. Zymurgist
Fat Freddy	Posted - 2009.11.16 19:35:00 - [267] You almost had this thread drop out of sight, then you brought it back again... If I were Maru'Kage I'd let this thread quietly die, lay low and it'll all be forgotten soon enough, however, you insist on posting replies. Sorry but you replies just seem like wheedling (that is a word btw) and make you appear even more fail, if that's possible. Fred
Raelyf The Bastards	Posted - 2009.11.16 19:57:00 - [268] Quote: we have actually repeatedly mentioned this, but everybody seems to be in the habit of ostritch holing thier head in the ground and yelling NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE. Could you quote where it was stated, prior to Sick Boys' latest post, that the terms and convos posted by Alek were made up? I seem to have missed it. Rae
James Tritanius	Posted - 2009.11.16 20:00:00 - [269] Headline News: MK attempts to salvage dignity, but fails again. Oh wait, that's not news...
Awesome Possum Imperium Signal Corps	Posted - 2009.11.16 20:05:00 - [270] proof or stfu i.e. high def/high res screen shots ♥ Wreck Disposal Services

Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2009.11.16 20:43:00 - [271] I wish some idiot would agree to pay me 1 bil per t3 ship kill. I have to agree that the contract NOIR negotiated with Maru Kage is totaly **ed up. But its not NOIR's job to hand hold **ed people from making huge mistakes. It is their job to insure that the said ****ed people have some chance of paying them.
Nathan Wolfe Caldari Axe Gang	Posted - 2009.11.16 21:16:00 - [272] Edited by: Nathan Wolfe on 16/11/2009 21:16:59 Originally by: Awesome Possum proof or stfu i.e. high def/high res screen shots This really. Noir. has chat logs and their reputation, what you got? You need proof to conduct effective forum warfare. Even a lowly C&P noob like myself knows this so surely a powerful upstart alliance like MK is aware of the rules of engagement. Right? Edit: Spelling fail
xxxak Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.11.16 21:26:00 - [273] Originally by: Sick Boy Ok I don't post a lot but the amount alek is lying is amazing. He should be ashamed of himself as a man. He has doctored the original deal contract chat log. The part he is leaving out that is important is that I SPECIFICALLY told him that PL had left system and that their would be no need to attack everyhthing around x-7 because the enemy was no longer there. I told him the SPECIFIC target was now MUTINY alliance in the ONE system of ROIR. Even the leaders of MUTINY know they were NOIRs target. Not like it was a surprise to anyone. So for alek to say that the contract was for EVERYTHING around is a complete lie and deep down he knows it, mutiny knows it, but he comes on here and lies to everyone and his own members about what the true contract was. Why would I care about roaming NC gangs? SO keep lying about what the contract really was alek, and that is all I am going to say about this situation. Post screen shots or you have zero credibility. And for everyone that says that commandships and T3 ships should be ignored.. that doesn't make any sense. If you hire someone to inflict pain on an enemy, a T3 kill is certainly a good way of inflicting pain. In fact, its even better and the tears are sweeter than a few stupid T2 HAC kills. In this case all credible evidence indicates that Sick Boy hired Noir. to attack "everything" in the 2-3 systems around X-70. The contract terms were slightly vague if you don't have experience with such contracts, but Sick Boy should have known he was entering into a potentially expensive and serious agreement. Final note, I am a rank-and-file null sec player, and I could have EASILY come up with more than 2 bil ISK to save my name/alliance. LOL?
SetrakDark Caldari DarkCorp Technology and Finance	Posted - 2009.11.16 21:53:00 - [274] Originally by: xxxak Final note, I am a rank-and-file null sec player, and I could have EASILY come up with more than 2 bil ISK to save my name/alliance. LOL? seriously
Altaica Amur Ichizoku	Posted - 2009.11.16 21:54:00 - [275] I'd go even further and say that Sick Boy already has zero credibility and thus has to present better proof then has been offered by Noir. basically screenshots as previously suggested. Still quite entertaining btw!
ANALDESTROYR Gallente No Compromise	Posted - 2009.11.16 22:06:00 - [276] Originally by: Altaica Amur I'd go even further and say that Sick Boy already has zero credibility SICK BOY HAS NO HONOUR I WILL MAKE DEALING OF THIS WITH MY MERC CORP FOR JUSTICE.
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.11.16 22:39:00 - [277] Originally by: Sick Boy Ok I don't post a lot but the amount alek is lying is amazing. He should be ashamed of himself as a man. He has doctored the original deal contract chat log. The part he is leaving out that is important is that I SPECIFICALLY told him that PL had left system and that their would be no need to attack everyhthing around x-7 because the enemy was no longer there. I told him the SPECIFIC target was now MUTINY alliance in the ONE system of ROIR. Even the leaders of MUTINY know they were NOIRs target. Not like it was a surprise to anyone. So for alek to say that the contract was for EVERYTHING around is a complete lie and deep down he knows it, mutiny knows it, but he comes on here and lies to everyone and his own members about what the true contract was. Why would I care about roaming NC gangs? SO keep lying about what the contract really was alek, and that is all I am going to say about this situation. This sir is slander. I know Alek, have worked with him on rare occasion, and I don't believe that he would tarnish his reputation over this. I know very little about you. But am learning slowly as my investigation continues. From observation I do not have a lot of confidence that you will prove to be a much more trustworthy person than Alek, and that folks will believe your allegations. That being said, please provide chat-logs, eve-mails, and other proof in un-modified forms so that we may judge for ourselves. Whole logs please including timestamps if you would. I can provide you with an e-mail address to send them to. I am certain that they will add weight to your position in the IEEE's investigation into this matter. We here at the IEEE would be happy to properly format and present them as your case. -- Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
Awesome Possum Imperium Signal Corps	Posted - 2009.11.17 00:01:00 - [278] Originally by: Zed I can provide you with an e-mail address to send them to. I am certain that they will add weight to your position in the IEEE's investigation into this matter. Love ya Zed, but chatlogs are too easily forged. I can make one with a creation date of any day you'd like ;) High res/High def screenshots are all i'd accept. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Shade Millith Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.11.17 00:32:00 - [279] So rather than announcing your objection to the claimed contract in your first, second, third, ect post you've made in this thread, you've left it until NOW to dispute it? /me grabs the popcorn --------------------------------------------
Daniel Ogden	Posted - 2009.11.17 00:44:00 - [280] Originally by: Zedrik Cayne Originally by: Sick Boy Removed to allow for more space to type. This sir is slander. I know Alek, have worked with him on rare occasion, and I don't believe that he would tarnish his reputation over this. I know very little about you. But am learning slowly as my investigation continues. From observation I do not have a lot of confidence that you will prove to be a much more trustworthy person than Alek, and that folks will believe your allegations. That being said, please provide chat-logs, eve-mails, and other proof in un-modified forms so that we may judge for ourselves. Whole logs please including timestamps if you would. I can provide you with an e-mail address to send them to. I am certain that they will add weight to your position in the IEEE's investigation into this matter. We here at the IEEE would be happy to properly format and present them as your case. Ok I for one was hoping that this would just slip away and be over but since everyone in C&P seems to have a **on over this I will address this concern. Nowhere in the case presented by Alek (specifically the chat logs he copied) does he post anything about agreeing to go after MUTINY although that was part of the deal. He specifically omitted this data to paint the picture he wanted to paint and I'm sure it's not really difficult for him to win over the hearts of his fellow merc buddies on C&P in the first place. We really don't need high quality images in order to prove this point beyond a reasonable doubt though, and it's a good thing because we don't have any. We too banked on Noir's reputation and didn't keep a high res image (or any image) of the chats that took place. One need only consider his selective chat log postings and consider statements he has made in this thread. He doesn't post any logs about the talk of targeting MUTINY yet he acknowledges the conversation very explicitly here: Originally by:** Alekseyev Karrde We did a good faith effort to kill your preferred targets when we saw them If a specific target was never in the discussion why would he say this? We don't need screen shots all we need is very basic deductive reasoning, he left information out on purpose so he would have a good reason to call his buddies and to try and put the squeeze on us for 5bln. It seems pretty straight forward and obvious at this point. As for us breaking the contract... even if what he has actually posted was all of the 'contract' and they want to get technical about that language then they still have no leg to stand on. They were to camp ROIR and they didn't. They were rarely even in system. The logs posted state to "kill everything". Agreeing to that metric is as ludicrous as what sick boy agreed to and is arguably an impossible task. If we were to take the same stance that Noir was taking we would say they failed on the contract and we owe nothing. As a point of principle we don't believe in doing that and came to an agreement of 2bln, pretty good for 4 days work. After agreeing to that Noir still won't just give it a rest and is still saying that we tried to rip them off.

Sick Boy Minmatar Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.17 00:45:00 - [281] Originally by: Shade Millith So rather than announcing your objection to the claimed contract in your first, second, third, ect post you've made in this thread, you've left it until NOW to dispute it? /me grabs the popcorn well I usually don't care about forum wars or what my men post about, but the amount of lies spewing from alek and all of eve gobbling it up hook line and sinker is nauseating. Why would I care about him attacking gangs of nc noobs all day? How does that benefit me or my alliance. There was 1 target and 1 system always. PL in x-7 first and then when they left, mutiny in roir. That is the 100% truth, so when the guy tries to rip me off, I feel disgusted but at the same time bad amount giving him nothing, so I give him 2 billion for killing SOME mutity. He can post all day with his 100 alts to spin it any which way he wants, but at the end of the day the guy has no honor and the truth is the truth.
Mickey Simon Blutkinder	Posted - 2009.11.17 00:51:00 - [282] HIT ENTER ONCE IN A WHILE YOU SPASTIC LITTLE MAN WHO IS SO **** AT THIS GAME YOU CANNOT AFFORD 5BN ISK AS AN ALLIANCE. ALSO BIOMASS YOURSELF AND STOP POSTING.
ANALDESTROYR Gallente No Compromise	Posted - 2009.11.17 01:01:00 - [283] Originally by: Mickey Simon BIOMASS YOURSELF AND STOP POSTING. YOU ARE ALSO TERRIBLE AT HON.
RedSplat Noir.	Posted - 2009.11.17 01:07:00 - [284] This is a gift that just keeps on giving Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Taram Caldar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.17 01:13:00 - [285] Originally by: Xiaodown Originally by: Taram Caldar It's also important to note that they could have negotiated for any number of other payment meathods. Every contract Noir. does is unique to the client. We don't have a flat pricing system, it depends on what the client and Alek agree to. If he didn't like the terms of the agreement he could have offered a different one. We've done flat rate contracts, pay per kill contracts, performance benchmark contracts etc. It really depends on what the client wants and what Alek and the Client agree to. Not our fault at all that the client agreed to a very clear pricing scheme and didn't want to live up to their end of the bargain. Everyone who hires a Merc should explicitly add the following to their contract: "(terms of payment...) up to a maximum of X isk." How is that something that people fail to do? (sup taram!) Hey Xiaodown! LTNS M8... hope all is well in your corner of the universe. And, yah... I really don't get why so many clients fail to do that, or something similar. Many do and many are good negotiators that work well with us... others... not so much :) Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
Mickey Simon Blutkinder	Posted - 2009.11.17 01:19:00 - [286] Originally by: ANALDESTROYR Originally by: Mickey Simon BIOMASS YOURSELF AND STOP POSTING. YOU ARE ALSO TERRIBLE AT HON. Wat. Had the most annoying game yesterday, Skiba and I go top as usual, then Orange decides he also wishes to play at top. I'm yelling over voice and abusing the ** out of him via text as well, but he wants to lane with me for some **ed reason. Game pretty much went like that, BUT DESPITE ****S I HAD A POSITIVE SCORE SO F U M8.
Shade Millith Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.11.17 01:44:00 - [287] Originally by: Sick Boy well I usually don't care about forum wars or what my men post about You're MK, the forum is your battleground. Originally by: Sick Boy but the amount of lies spewing from alek and all of eve gobbling it up hook line and sinker is nauseating. Why would I care about him attacking gangs of nc noobs all day? How does that benefit me or my alliance. There was 1 target and 1 system always. PL in x-7 first and then when they left, mutiny in roir. That is the 100% truth Quote: 2009.10.14 01:41 pure blind. in x-7omu NPC system space. basicaslly killing everyone in site in the area. Quote: 2009.10.14 01:53 just standings to our alliance and mordus angels. system list is x-7omu and 2 jumps out from here in any direction http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Pure_Blind Quote: Np, but i'd add ROIR and all adjacent systems to your bill in addition to the X-7 + 2 jumps This doesn't seem to indicate that you wanted one system and one target only. --------------------------------------------
w1ldt4ngent SWARTA	Posted - 2009.11.17 02:07:00 - [288] I thought this was resolved 3 or 4 pages ago? Money changed hands and standings are neutral. If Noir. really did stiff you, you did the honourable thing and at least gave them something for their time. If you stiffed them, they let you off easy. It's win-win for both sides, why can't you just let it die? Oh wait. This is EVE. SRS BZNS INTERNET SPACESHIP DRAMA! ___________________________ Swartans! Prepare for glory!
Moon Penguin Minmatar Morgal and Ketchum Mining Guild	Posted - 2009.11.17 03:10:00 - [289] There are two sides to every story. Without an objective third party that witnessed the agreement and collected screenshots/logs of the deal, there is no way to 100% resolve this. Let it die. Noir. can go about attacking Sick Boy and Maru Kage as they see fit in X-7 and use the two billion isk they received as a consolation prize. If Noir. feels cheated over two billion isk for four days worth of roaming a pvp-easy area, they need their heads examined. While a contract is a contract, none of us actually know what the contract stipulated or the terms and agreements that were met during negotiations. We only have Aleks' word versus Sick's word. For all we know, the contract could been "kill everything (PL or MUTINY related) in XYZ system at 50% of total isk value destroyed." As someone earlier said, chat logs are easily modified and Maru Kage is a popular target that draws a lot of ire from the forum player-base. Given the chance, I'd use whatever means necessary to squeeze as much ISK as possible out of a target like that. I can't believe I spent this long replying to a 10 page thread about ambiguous contracts. FML.
Fig Jam	Posted - 2009.11.17 03:17:00 - [290] Originally by: Moon Penguin Let it die. No way, far too amusing.

Shosin Tamaka Gallente Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.17 03:18:00 - [291] Originally by: Moon Penguin There are two sides to every story. Without an objective third party that witnessed the agreement and collected screenshots/logs of the deal, there is no way to 100% resolve this. Let it die. Noir. can go about attacking Sick Boy and Maru Kage as they see fit in X-7 and use the two billion isk they received as a consolation prize. If Noir. feels cheated over two billion isk for four days worth of roaming a pvp-easy area, they need their heads examined. While a contract is a contract, none of us actually know what the contract stipulated or the terms and agreements that were met during negotiations. We only have Aleks' word versus Sick's word. For all we know, the contract could been "kill everything (PL or MUTINY related) in XYZ system at 50% of total isk value destroyed." As someone earlier said, chat logs are easily modified and Maru Kage is a popular target that draws a lot of ire from the forum player-base. Given the chance, I'd use whatever means necessary to squeeze as much ISK as possible out of a target like that. I can't believe I spent this long replying to a 10 page thread about ambiguous contracts. FML. Thank you for a fair post.
Doctor Cal'torien Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.17 03:54:00 - [292] Originally by: Fig Jam Originally by: Moon Penguin Let it die. No way, far too amusing. /signed the second part not the first also, Sex --- YOUR BABIES ARE TASTY Originally by: Nadarius Chrome "Set artillery to stun!"
Moon Penguin Minmatar Morgal and Ketchum Mining Guild	Posted - 2009.11.17 04:00:00 - [293] Originally by: Doctor Cal'torien also, Sex I concur.

CCP Ildoge	Posted - 2009.11.17 04:13:00 - [294] * This thread has become off topic, locking thread. - CCP Ildoge Ildoge Community Representative CCP Hf Contact us



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