Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Someone explain to me how that is not a broken mechanic.
I don't mean the meta-drama.
Goonies gonna goon. Jade is gonna tinfoil. The Mittani gonna be Space Dr. House (yeah, went there).
But I expect the company that I spend hundreds of dollars (if not thousands) a year supporting, to not punch in their responsibilities and deliver a quality product of endless possibility of entertainment.
The way I see it, a sandbox world in which mercs are a profession should be about escalation and epicness and death and destruction no matter what sec. It should be about unexpected, unscripted, unplanned, surprises. About ingenuity and cunning and creativity over math and scripts played out time and time again.
Having to pay trillions of isk to get epicness in wars is breaking that. All it promotes is defensive carebearing - sitting in stations why your alts do the work elsewhere. It denies fun to the attacker, and it denies fun to the defender. It makes for a boring game.
I am not saying there should be fairness. Quite the contrary. I am saying there should be freedom. Freedom can be unfair.
There should be the freedom to call upon dozens of corporations to engage in protracted battles of epic proportions if that is the way the involved want to take it. Attackers should be cunning and finds way to counter this (such as bribes, spies etc). There should be financial risk for both sides.
So I do not understand why would it make sense to essentially have a linear wardec fee with a cap, but then have a logarithmic merc hiring fee with no cap. I just try to find a reason. "Eve is not fair" doesn't make sense, to me, as reason.
EVE is not fair is true and should remain true.
Eve is not fun shouldn't be.
I think CCP if forgetting this is a game and not a cult formed around the vision of self-styled prophets imposing their vision of sandbox instead of actually building one.
I want tools to play in the sand. They can be hard tools to master. They can unfair tools. But make them result in fun.
Not premade castles with the same outcome every time its is played. Boooring.
That is turning wardec and mercenary roles into a boring PVE mission. That is unacceptable. So stop punching it in and start actually using your brains CCP. This sandbox is not just griefers and carebears.
Also you can be brilliant - TiDi and the new mining stuff shows you can get it right when you want to. So don't punch this one in. Really create a vibrant hisec merc role. I mean, why not introduce hisec semi-sov for merc alliances? You worry about complacent carebear, do
However, some kudos to CCP for putting the fire under the meta-drama. It beats Game of Trones in the guilty pleasure soap opera category... I see what you did there -.-
|

killorbekilled TBE
Dare Bears
101
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
first huh? |

baltec1
1453
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Translation? |

Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
215
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Crunchie Attuxors wrote:Someone explain to me how that is not a broken mechanic.
I don't mean the meta-drama.
Goonies gonna goon. Jade is gonna tinfoil. The Mittani gonna be Space Dr. House (yeah, went there).
But I expect the company that I spend hundreds of dollars (if not thousands) a year supporting, to not punch in their responsibilities and deliver a quality product of endless possibility of entertainment.
The way I see it, a sandbox world in which mercs are a profession should be about escalation and epicness and death and destruction no matter what sec. It should be about unexpected, unscripted, unplanned, surprises. About ingenuity and cunning and creativity over math and scripts played out time and time again.
Having to pay trillions of isk to get epicness in wars is breaking that. All it promotes is defensive carebearing - sitting in stations why your alts do the work elsewhere. It denies fun to the attacker, and it denies fun to the defender. It makes for a boring game.
I am not saying there should be fairness. Quite the contrary. I am saying there should be freedom. Freedom can be unfair.
There should be the freedom to call upon dozens of corporations to engage in protracted battles of epic proportions if that is the way the involved want to take it. Attackers should be cunning and finds way to counter this (such as bribes, spies etc). There should be financial risk for both sides.
So I do not understand why would it make sense to essentially have a linear wardec fee with a cap, but then have a logarithmic merc hiring fee with no cap. I just try to find a reason. "Eve is not fair" doesn't make sense, to me, as reason.
EVE is not fair is true and should remain true.
Eve is not fun shouldn't be.
I think CCP if forgetting this is a game and not a cult formed around the vision of self-styled prophets imposing their vision of sandbox instead of actually building one.
I want tools to play in the sand. They can be hard tools to master. They can unfair tools. But make them result in fun.
Not premade castles with the same outcome every time its is played. Boooring.
That is turning wardec and mercenary roles into a boring PVE mission. That is unacceptable. So stop punching it in and start actually using your brains CCP. This sandbox is not just griefers and carebears.
Also you can be brilliant - TiDi and the new mining stuff shows you can get it right when you want to. So don't punch this one in. Really create a vibrant hisec merc role. I mean, why not introduce hisec semi-sov for merc alliances? You worry about complacent carebear, do
However, some kudos to CCP for putting the fire under the meta-drama. It beats Game of Trones in the guilty pleasure soap opera category... I see what you did there -.-
1.Goons wouldn't last a second in a real sandbox.
2.You are being a ****** by trying to reason with Goons. They know they are lying vermin. They never stop lying. Treating them like they want honest discourse is ********. |

Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
110
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
1.Goons wouldn't last a second in a real sandbox.
2.You are being a ****** by trying to reason with Goons. They know they are lying vermin. They never stop lying. Treating them like they want honest discourse is ********.
Show me on the Exhumer model where the bad Goon touched you.
"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
|

Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
215
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mortimer Civeri wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
1.Goons wouldn't last a second in a real sandbox.
2.You are being a ****** by trying to reason with Goons. They know they are lying vermin. They never stop lying. Treating them like they want honest discourse is ********.
Show me on the Exhumer model where the bad Goon touched you.
Is that supposed to be clever? |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1213
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Crunchie Attuxors wrote:Someone explain to me how that is not a broken mechanic. Doesn't require 1 isk to defend, you can either bring in corporations into your alliance or - get this - actually defend yourselves using combat ships and stuff.. hope that helped
o7 o7 |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1213
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
also, a real sandbox would be all about removing CONCORD anything else is a compromise |

sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Crunchie Attuxors wrote:Someone explain to me how that is not a broken mechanic. Doesn't require 1 isk to defend, you can either bring in corporations into your alliance or - get this - actually defend yourselves using combat ships and stuff.. hope that helped o7 o7
Or, you can leave a docked holder and drop temporarily to another corp/npc corp. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |

Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
110
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Mortimer Civeri wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
1.Goons wouldn't last a second in a real sandbox.
2.You are being a ****** by trying to reason with Goons. They know they are lying vermin. They never stop lying. Treating them like they want honest discourse is ********.
Show me on the Exhumer model where the bad Goon touched you. Is that supposed to be clever? Oh, you were mad. I'm sorry, I thought you were trying to be clever.
"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
|
|

Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:also, a real sandbox would be all about removing CONCORD anything else is a compromise
I think there is merit to that, but that is besides the point.
I am not presenting a wish list. I am addressing a specific implementation of a specific feature.
Forcing a "mano a mano" in wardec robs mercs of business opportunities. That is diminishes fun.
Any real merc wants a fight, even if they lose.
And that is what being lost in the whole meta drama that amuses but its irrelevant to the average dues paying player. Add playing opportunities, not diminish them. |

sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mortimer Civeri wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Mortimer Civeri wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
1.Goons wouldn't last a second in a real sandbox.
2.You are being a ****** by trying to reason with Goons. They know they are lying vermin. They never stop lying. Treating them like they want honest discourse is ********.
Show me on the Exhumer model where the bad Goon touched you. Is that supposed to be clever? Oh, you were mad. I'm sorry, I thought you were trying to be clever.
Goon alt hates war Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |

ElQuirko
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
729
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mortimer Civeri wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Mortimer Civeri wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
1.Goons wouldn't last a second in a real sandbox.
2.You are being a ****** by trying to reason with Goons. They know they are lying vermin. They never stop lying. Treating them like they want honest discourse is ********.
Show me on the Exhumer model where the bad Goon touched you. Is that supposed to be clever? Oh, you were mad. I'm sorry, I thought you were trying to be clever.
That countertroll was bad and you should feel bad. CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1038
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Crunchie Attuxors wrote:Someone explain to me how that is not a broken mechanic. Doesn't require 1 isk to defend, you can either bring in corporations into your alliance or - get this - actually defend yourselves using combat ships and stuff.. hope that helped o7 o7 Or, you can leave a docked holder and drop temporarily to another corp/npc corp.  Ah yes, the NPC Corp.
A popular choice, I understand. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |

Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
1.Goons wouldn't last a second in a real sandbox.
2.You are being a ****** by trying to reason with Goons. They know they are lying vermin. They never stop lying. Treating them like they want honest discourse is ********.
I am not addressing the goons.
I am addressing CCP, the company I pay money to develop tools for my amusement.
(And to whom the goons pay money too, unless we think they all have free accounts paid for by isk bought plex... which is not true.)
So a little reading comprehension failure detected. |

Zoe Athame
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
74
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Crunchie Attuxors wrote:Someone explain to me how that is not a broken mechanic. Doesn't require 1 isk to defend, you can either bring in corporations into your alliance or - get this - actually defend yourselves using combat ships and stuff.. hope that helped o7 o7
QFT
Attacking is cheap because the attackers are doing it by themselves. If the attackers hired mercs to attack you, it would cost them more too.
Solution, if the attackers can succeed without mercs, so can you. |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
58
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 21:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:1.Goons wouldn't last a second in a real sandbox.
2.You are being a ****** by trying to reason with Goons. They know they are lying vermin. They never stop lying. Treating them like they want honest discourse is ********.
As per the new forum rules:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?newsTitle=new-forum-rules-on-tuesday-july-12
Personal attack like what you just did, are not allowed. Be nice ok? |

sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 21:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zoe Athame wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Crunchie Attuxors wrote:Someone explain to me how that is not a broken mechanic. Doesn't require 1 isk to defend, you can either bring in corporations into your alliance or - get this - actually defend yourselves using combat ships and stuff.. hope that helped o7 o7 QFT Attacking is cheap because the attackers are doing it by themselves. If the attackers hired mercs to attack you, it would cost them more too. Solution, if the attackers can succeed without mercs, so can you.
5000 goons can succeed against 3 miners without mercs? You don't say... Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |

Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
433
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 21:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Implying any nullsec group gives a damn about a bunch of highsec "pvpers". Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |

sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 21:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Implying any nullsec group gives a damn about a bunch of highsec "pvpers".
If goons like the Jita camp, they wouldn't be crying to nerf it. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
|

Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
433
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 21:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Aiwha wrote:Implying any nullsec group gives a damn about a bunch of highsec "pvpers". If goons like the Jita camp, they wouldn't be crying to nerf it. 
If goons are crying about Jita camping, my respect for said goons is dropping a bit. Dodging "mercenaries" and "pvpers" in Jita is as easy as neutral alt. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |

sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
208
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 21:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:sabre906 wrote:Aiwha wrote:Implying any nullsec group gives a damn about a bunch of highsec "pvpers". If goons like the Jita camp, they wouldn't be crying to nerf it.  If goons are crying about Jita camping, my respect for said goons is dropping a bit. Dodging "mercenaries" and "pvpers" in Jita is as easy as neutral alt.
If goons are that smart, they wouldn't be goons. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
503
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 21:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Aiwha wrote:Implying any nullsec group gives a damn about a bunch of highsec "pvpers". If goons like the Jita camp, they wouldn't be crying to nerf it. 
If we were crying to get our wardecs revoked, you'd be able to quote examples. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |

Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 21:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
I find it ironic that the most virulent and nasty post here has been from someone against the goons, wereas the one goon who posted was simply 2/10 trolling.
Who are the evil ones?
However, I want to refocus because as usual people turn this thread away from what it is about.
The concern is not even about "balancing" - that is red herring quite frankly - its about the tools we need in the sandbox. Having a tool cost trillions of isk is effectively limiting this tool. It is closing off an avenue of play in the sandbox.
It is not about fairness - like CCP Soundwave wants to Jedi Mind Trick us into thinking, and Jade plays useful fool to - but about having a tool. If I want 20 allies, I should be prepared to back that up, there should be a cost. But a trillion and more isk is not a cost. It is a prohibition.
Its like when they first banned weed in the USA, they technically didn't, they simply required a stamp be bought per bushel, but this stamp was not available for sale. It is banning by other means. That breaks the entire purpose of having allies. I rather go back to the old system then, this is feature is useless if one cannot play with it and push its limits.
And I would like to hear what CCP has to say. This deep involvement of CCP public staff in the metagame is keeping them from addressing concerns of their customer base. Not a good business model.
CCP Soundwave needs to behave less as player and more as a professional business representative of CCP and a key stakeholder in providing customers value in the form of tools for the sandbox. |

Torneach
Viziam Amarr Empire
268
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 21:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Would have all been fine if CCP had just delivered the mercenary marketplace like they promised they would.
But instead we get this inherently flawed 'ally system'. |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1214
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 21:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Crunchie Attuxors wrote:It is banning by other means. That breaks the entire purpose of having allies. I rather go back to the old system then, this is feature is useless if one cannot play with it and push its limits.n. Nothing's stopping you from bringing your "allies" into a mutual alliance. Or having your allies pony up the cash and wardec the aggressors themselves. Or any number of methods that involve actual allies, and not just highsec ganker corps who merely want cost-effective workarounds around having to pay a wardec fee themselves (which I imagine is what you actually want). |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4072
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 21:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
derp Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 21:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Mortimer Civeri wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Mortimer Civeri wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
1.Goons wouldn't last a second in a real sandbox.
2.You are being a ****** by trying to reason with Goons. They know they are lying vermin. They never stop lying. Treating them like they want honest discourse is ********.
Show me on the Exhumer model where the bad Goon touched you. Is that supposed to be clever? Oh, you were mad. I'm sorry, I thought you were trying to be clever. Goon alt hates war  Goon alt, throwing out accusations of someone other than him, being a Goon.
See I can make baseless accusations too.
I grow weary of the same tired "ARGG! Goonies are ebil blobbers, who have CCP in their back pocket, and wouldn't last a second in a 'real' fight." meme like Jessie-A Tassik, posts. Really try something more original people.
"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
|

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1215
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 22:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Crunchie Attuxors wrote:It is banning by other means. That breaks the entire purpose of having allies. I rather go back to the old system then, this is feature is useless if one cannot play with it and push its limits.n. Nothing's stopping you from bringing your "allies" into a mutual alliance. Or having your allies pony up the cash and wardec the aggressors themselves. Or any number of methods that involve actual allies, and not just highsec ganker corps who merely want cost-effective workarounds around having to pay a wardec fee themselves (which I imagine is what you actually want). Nothing prevents you from just fighting the abovementioned people and force them into submission.  Indeed. But this isn't about what I can or cannot do, but about the balance of the wardec system. |

Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
492
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 22:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Aiwha wrote:Implying any nullsec group gives a damn about a bunch of highsec "pvpers". If goons like the Jita camp, they wouldn't be crying to nerf it. 
Just because I can't be bothered to type out a fresh reply, here's one I made earlier.
Perhaps you haven't been around very long, or perhaps you don't frequent many other parts of the forum than GD, but you are terribly mistaken. There are certainly members of GS that behave less than prudently on the forums, but that is not to say that all of them behave in such a fashion.
If you had bothered to do even the tiniest bit of research you would realise that, for the most part, the GS have made invaluable contributions to this game. Granted there have been some rather major and well publicised negative events involving GS members, but that should in no way over shadow the positive aspects of having GS around.
Back in 2004-right through until the arrival of GS we were lumbered with an Alliance that was of the same relative size and power as GS, but who did little to bring about changes that would be of benefit to the masses. GS have, to the annoyance of some, brought about some very good changes to the game, prominent amongst those being the nerfing of Titans, and more recently their requests for Technetium to be redistributed more fairly.
The majority of people crying on these forums are not members of GS, but rather those who have little to no understanding of GS, nor of their intentions, even though these intentions should be clear to most by now. Most of the GS members I see "crying" on the forums are actually being ironic, sarcastic or just plain in your face trolling, the laughable thing is that people seem to believe that they really are crying.
What is actually happening is that people like you are jumping on the "hate them cos they're bigger than us, wah wah wah" bandwagon, while taking absolutely no time or effort to take a look at things for yourselves. I suggest you go and educate yourself on the "facts" lest you appear more foolish than you already do. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |