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HowardStern	Posted - 2009.12.08 03:26:00 - [31] Originally by: Zeba FW level 4 missions make empire level 4 mission payouts seem like ratting in a .7 system and are just as risk free if you know how to run them. Why no rage over those? WHY! And this. People selling 1 (if not more) Navy Geddon for 700m a day, every day, is somewhat..... something.
Cors It's A Trap	Posted - 2009.12.08 03:27:00 - [32] The one this most of these posts miss is that there is a large chunk of all lvl 4 mission runners who have pvp alts in 0.0. This is one of them. This char I run my lvl 4's on as an income source. I have 3 other char's that rarely enter high sec. My Cap pilot who lives in 0.0/lowsec(Depending on if I'm in my Dread or my JF). I have 2 pvp char's. One is Amarr, one is Minmatar. One is finishing up the lvl 5 Leadership skills, and can fly all other T2 ships/Weapons for Amarr, the other is being cross trained into MOM's, so it can be used as a mobile base. These 3 char's of mine have spent most of the last 4 years time in lowsec/0.0(We went pirate for a few months, you can get to -10 with a broadsword DAMNED fast). So whenever I hear the "Lets move people to 0.0" speech, that's what I think about. I can make 50Mil/hr + in high sec lvl 4's. OR I can make about 20-40 mil an hour in 0.0 ratting(Depending on hostiles/region of 0.0). Though if they bump it up so I can rat SOLO and have more steady 1 Mil ISK + Rats in 0.0, I'd rather rat out there. I prefer ratting. But lvl 4's make more. If they moved lvl 4's to lowsec/0.0 I'd stop doing them and focus on ratting. But in the past, ratting as been too hard in 0.0 as you either had to go 10+ jumps away from your "home" in 0.0, or you had to contend with others in your system screwing up your bs chains. We'll see how the upgrades for dominion work.
Elena Laskova	Posted - 2009.12.08 03:33:00 - [33] Edited by: Elena Laskova on 08/12/2009 03:34:19 Originally by: Marko Riva There's a difference between solo gameplay being an option in a PVP MMO and being THE option. Right now it's THE option because it pays way too much for the effort/risk involved. Lower payout or increase risk/effort to make it less desirable so people can actually have a choice of doing something else that's equally worth it. Right now that's not the case, I don't understand how once could see this any differently unless one's in denial on purpose or being biased. Question (and a serious one): are you suggesting a McJob in 0.0 must pay better than any highSec alternative or 0.0 isn't worth living in? I have no objection to people playing EvE to maximize ISK/hour, but it seems a little counter to the usual claims of the princes of 0.0 (controlling your own area, companionship, diplomacy, NBSI ganking, taking a risk every week or two and attacking with only a 5-1 advantage ...) I don't see how you can have it both ways: either 0.0 is fun in itself, or it's occupied by people looking to create a carebear environment outside highSec. TBH I'm ok either way, but if you're all really carebears, why insult people who live in highSec?
Spurty Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.08 03:36:00 - [34] Sigh, go away with your ISK / RISK / REWARD nonsense. Go play WOW. I don't live in 0.0 for ISK. Don't think 'many' people I fly with do either. I live there for the frills and spills. Going to 0.0 for ISK = failure, never going to catch on as a primary reason to be our there. I LIVE in 0.0 to play and have fun, I make ISK and GRIND boringly in Empire. Hows about YOU make ISK in empire and go to 0.0 to actually see what its all about out there? Sure, you are going to lose isk. Deal with it. Go back to Empire when you are out of ISK. Come back when you have a ship and 50mill in your wallet. Do not need BILLIONS and BILLIONS to go out there. Can't believe anyone is selling 0.0 life on potential ISK making. 1 person per moon effectively gets the ISK in 0.0. If you are really really really lucky, your alliance will supply 1/2 decent ships for you for 'cheap'. The other 99 people have to make it their own way with alts in Empire. Originally by: Hurley I WAS NOT QUITTING SoT AND WAS NOT THINKING ABOUT JOINING IT. PL/SoT MADE A MISTAKE AND ARE NOT MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT IT OR FIX IT.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2009.12.08 03:52:00 - [35] The starter of this thread has clearly been slowly driven mad with the idea that 'carebears' are making large amounts of isk while also remaining out of his reach. This growing complex has permeated every aspect of gameplay in his hopelessly twisted mind, until even the gates themselves appear to be mocking him as he floats alone near one in lowsec. Imagining the carebears all dancing together and making billions of isk per hour. Oh what the gates must think of him, all by himself, not making anything, while those infernal carebears travel through them in their damned hisec with increasing amounts of isk. Yes, the gates see all. They speak amongst themselves of the account balances of travelers. He knows this now. He cannot escape the unblinking eye of the gate. And as the days pass he feels its weight on him more and more, until one day he cannot bear it any longer and comes up with a plan to make a post on the forums providing an ultimatum which could only make sense to mind as tragically demented as his: Destroy the carebears precious L4's, or the expansion is a failure. My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Hamshoe	Posted - 2009.12.08 03:53:00 - [36] Originally by: Spurty I don't live in 0.0 for ISK. Don't think 'many' people I fly with do either. I live there for the frills and spills. Going to 0.0 for ISK = failure, never going to catch on as a primary reason to be our there. I LIVE in 0.0 to play and have fun, I make ISK and GRIND boringly in Empire. Hows about YOU make ISK in empire and go to 0.0 to actually see what its all about out there? Which suggests, as has been mentioned before, that the proper way to encourage people to at least try the 0.0 experience is to make it suck less, not make the Empire experience suck more. I don't know wtf kind of marketing they teach there in geothermal land, but they could use a swift kick out of the medieval mindset. Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse?
Cyprus Black Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.12.08 03:56:00 - [37] FYI, posting the same stupid complaint over and over on various alts doesn't validate the complaint. I can see through your lame plan. Everyone can see through it. ___________________________________ ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in EvE... you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Grapez The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple	Posted - 2009.12.08 04:00:00 - [38] this is a really good post: Originally by: Professor Tarantula The starter of this thread has clearly been slowly driven mad with the idea that 'carebears' are making large amounts of isk while also remaining out of his reach. This growing complex has permeated every aspect of gameplay in his hopelessly twisted mind, until even the gates themselves appear to be mocking him as he floats alone near one in lowsec. Imagining the carebears all dancing together and making billions of isk per hour. Oh what the gates must think of him, all by himself, not making anything, while those infernal carebears travel through them in their damned hisec with increasing amounts of isk. Yes, the gates see all. They speak amongst themselves of the account balances of travelers. He knows this now. He cannot escape the unblinking eye of the gate. And as the days pass he feels its weight on him more and more, until one day he cannot bear it any longer and comes up with a plan to make a post on the forums providing an ultimatum which could only make sense to mind as tragically demented as his: Destroy the carebears precious L4's, or the expansion is a failure.
Alt0101	Posted - 2009.12.08 05:14:00 - [39] Originally by: grapez this is a really good post: Originally by: Professor Tarantula The starter of this thread has clearly been slowly driven mad with the idea that 'carebears' are making large amounts of isk while also remaining out of his reach. This growing complex has permeated every aspect of gameplay in his hopelessly twisted mind, until even the gates themselves appear to be mocking him as he floats alone near one in lowsec. Imagining the carebears all dancing together and making billions of isk per hour. Oh what the gates must think of him, all by himself, not making anything, while those infernal carebears travel through them in their damned hisec with increasing amounts of isk. Yes, the gates see all. They speak amongst themselves of the account balances of travelers. He knows this now. He cannot escape the unblinking eye of the gate. And as the days pass he feels its weight on him more and more, until one day he cannot bear it any longer and comes up with a plan to make a post on the forums providing an ultimatum which could only make sense to mind as tragically demented as his: Destroy the carebears precious L4's, or the expansion is a failure. This is a bunch of bull**** Good try but your cheapo psychoanalysis fails by a long shot. what I mean is what's the point when a MMO rewards the most at players who play it like a single-player game?
Heijin Daido	Posted - 2009.12.08 05:20:00 - [40] Originally by: Alt0101 Originally by: grapez this is a really good post: Originally by: Professor Tarantula The starter of this thread has clearly been slowly driven mad with the idea that 'carebears' are making large amounts of isk while also remaining out of his reach. This growing complex has permeated every aspect of gameplay in his hopelessly twisted mind, until even the gates themselves appear to be mocking him as he floats alone near one in lowsec. Imagining the carebears all dancing together and making billions of isk per hour. Oh what the gates must think of him, all by himself, not making anything, while those infernal carebears travel through them in their damned hisec with increasing amounts of isk. Yes, the gates see all. They speak amongst themselves of the account balances of travelers. He knows this now. He cannot escape the unblinking eye of the gate. And as the days pass he feels its weight on him more and more, until one day he cannot bear it any longer and comes up with a plan to make a post on the forums providing an ultimatum which could only make sense to mind as tragically demented as his: Destroy the carebears precious L4's, or the expansion is a failure. This is a bunch of bull** Good try but your cheapo psychoanalysis fails by a long shot. what I mean is what's the point when a MMO rewards the most at players who play it like a single-player game? too bad this isn't a MMO where you actually gain things. People like you have stated time and time again that this whole game should only be PvP; destroy, destroy, destroy. I honestly welcome the fact that I can still forge a way and not have to deal with the bull** asinine politics, players, and general douche bags who want to do nothing but waive their e-peen around and secretly jerk off in their mother's basement because they just killed some shuttle with their "uber pwning HICtorz".
Chilton Haynes	Posted - 2009.12.08 05:40:00 - [41] I always thought EVE was what you made of it.... The fun is deciding what YOU want to do in the game!
2Com2	Posted - 2009.12.08 05:56:00 - [42] well to be honest, I am trying out lowsec for the first time and having a hell of a lot of fun too, even got warp bubbled and got away lol. Was a hell of a effort by some good friends tho just to let me experience it all as it would have been impossible unless they were there. If it was easier to get into, you guys could kill a crap load more ppl like me PS. If you see me before I see you, at least let me think I am going to get away lol
Aaron Eternal Frontier	Posted - 2009.12.08 06:03:00 - [43] Edited by: Aaron on 08/12/2009 06:03:40 Bottom line is, if you havent been to 0.0 and lived there your seriously missing out. It will change how you perceive the game forever. 0.0 is an amazing place if you know how to work it. It seriously is an adventure where you're the star. Look me up, i started a thread a few months ago about a venture to 0.0,
Warshark Steel Advent	Posted - 2009.12.08 06:22:00 - [44] Wow, you guys spend way to much time thinking about this. This is a game, not RL, go outside, make a real friend, kiss a girl, do something to alleviate your mania. Holy crap.
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.12.08 06:59:00 - [45] Well it's interesting to see this issue (sending people to 0.0 being a joke, and a failure on CCPs part). What I think is happening is that CCP is trying to do two things at once that contradict, and in effect trying to deny market forces in the way that governments in the real world try it (notice the global economy lately?). CCP advertises this game on "conquest" though "domination" would be more accurate considering the name of the latest patch. But really I do see their banner ad a few times a day that starts out "first week..... ### ISK". ISK, or money generally in EvE tends to be two major things to most of the players (there are some that don't care about ISK but we leave them out): One is power, and the other is "win". What I mean by "win" is that for many players, the total sum of ISK is their level of measurable accomplishment in the game. They might want little else, or at some point hope to go into end game but lack the time for corps or want a few hundred billion ISK to "waste" on PVP and take several years to go broke. Low and null sec are simple NOT profitable, and profit means a lot to a lot of players. You can't defy gravity over this, and trying to ignore that is trying to defy gravity. See, if you can mission in low sec or null sec, and earn say, from 3 missions 150M ISK, but 25 percent of the time you lose a ship that costs 150M ISK, there is a loss in the profit margin. Simple math: I am not taking into account the cost of modules over the insurance payout. So it goes either way. A cheap fit might be little after payout but a cheap ship does not earn the ISK so fast. With the general lack of security there is less time to salvage the wrecks for things that can be sold, or to make other things. Therefore less is earned and/or more has to be spent on what could have been made. Now I know there is a lot of wailing and gnashing of the teeth over how the game is played, and much of this poisoned with a modern tendency of people to, well, be like spoiled brats. I refer to both the pirates and the missioners. Nobody is innocent. Truth is, no matter what people say or think or what CCP wants (unless they want to turn the game upside down which would be interesting), market forces are in effect and if it's not profitable to mission in low sec, and with ISK being both a benchmark and an open door in the game, then people will not mission in low sec. Period. To really "fix" this - if that is the goal at all (I don't know) - would require changing the market structure of the game and the means through which ships and modules are required. How to go about that? I won't even go there because much of this game is about using ISK to aquire ships and modules that are used to aquire more ISK, ships, and modules. This is a most sticky situation, and a most powerful market too. CCP should best be careful not to mess with this market (high taxes, price controls of fixing, and any crap that Keynes would suggest were he alive today).
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.12.08 07:00:00 - [46] Originally by: Warshark Wow, you guys spend way to much time thinking about this. This is a game, not RL, go outside, make a real friend, kiss a girl, do something to alleviate your mania. Holy crap. /me logoffskis as The Legion of Spreadsheet Whoors hotdrops a cap fleet on ur poast. Originally by: HowardStern And this. People selling 1 (if not more) Navy Geddon for 700m a day, every day, is somewhat..... something. Tbh the selling average should have been another 150 mil or so higher but we had some clueless rebels on launch day that didn't follow the pricing guide. They have since been eliminated.. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Atticus Fynch	Posted - 2009.12.08 07:25:00 - [47] OK, follow my logic here: I jump to 0.0 space and appear in the middle of a warp bubble on the other side. I try to lock onto the SOB waiting for me on the other side but cant because my ship is still "cloaked" from the jump. The bubbles are 3 deep at the gate. Meanwhile he locks on me and blows my ass away. OK...so CCP wants players to move into 0.0 with these odds stacked against you? At the very least limit how close a warp bubble can be place near a gate. It was a lose/lose situation for me.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.12.08 07:34:00 - [48] Originally by: Atticus Fynch OK...so CCP wants players to move into 0.0 with these odds stacked against you? CCP doesn't want you to move into nullsec. They want you and a whole bunch of other players all working in an organized group to move into nullsec. If you want to play the solo or small corp game stick to low sec and empire. Or alternatively you could choose to make yourself valuable to an extablished or up and coming alliance and get absorbed into the larger game. Backup is rather handy to have after all. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Atticus Fynch	Posted - 2009.12.08 07:44:00 - [49] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Atticus Fynch OK...so CCP wants players to move into 0.0 with these odds stacked against you? CCP doesn't want you to move into nullsec. They want you and a whole bunch of other players all working in an organized group to move into nullsec. If you want to play the solo or small corp game stick to low sec and empire. Or alternatively you could choose to make yourself valuable to an extablished or up and coming alliance and get absorbed into the larger game. Backup is rather handy to have after all. makes more sense...thanks.
PeHD0M	Posted - 2009.12.08 08:15:00 - [50] The thing is, even if 0.0 was 10 times more profitable then empire, if someone don't want to play by 0.0 rules, he will not play that way. End of story. You will simply make char progress in empire impossible, because of prices changes and dinamic market. People, who simply can't play in 0.0, will quit, if you nerf empire rewards to death because people don't play games to feel themselfs miserable. Bottomline: can't earn enough isk in empire to sustain themselfs -> can't enjoy the game -> quit
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.08 08:38:00 - [51] Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Low and null sec are simple NOT profitable, and profit means a lot to a lot of players. You can't defy gravity over this, and trying to ignore that is trying to defy gravity. Look what people farming FW missions in low sec was getting in the last months and the level of risk they had. For them low sec was profitable and they are convinced (from the posts in the test forum relevant thread) that it will be rewarding even after the penalty for frequent mission refusal for FW mission will be reinstated. When the upgrades in 0.0 will be operating as they should almost certainly it will give more isk to the single pilot than high sec, plus the moon minerals profit. You can't disregard the moon minerals profits in 0.0 and low sec only because most of them are gobbled by the CEO and directors, they still add to the average of the profits for players even if the distribution between players is unequal.
Eden Vassai	Posted - 2009.12.08 08:40:00 - [52] Until we see genuine movements by people from CCP that allow smaller fleets to take on larger forces, 'weak' ships to take on 'strong' ships then this game will be nothing more than an overglorified and stupidly complex rock/paper/scissors game with even less real strategy involved than an average RTS or WoW. It's people like the OP who don't want this to change because they'd be knocked off their little artificially achieved pedestal and actually have to use some skill in the game instead of simply joining earlier than everyone else and getting the best ships.
Roemy Schneider Vanishing Point.	Posted - 2009.12.08 08:42:00 - [53] - move highsec lvl4 to 1.0 systems and make the equation that ties LP to system security steeper. - and more low-sec lvl4 to feel the difference so what... if npc-null-sec dwellers rake in ridiculous amounts of LP...? shrug it'll get crowded there anyway with more and more people showing the finger to the new sov costs, the trillion isk sink - putting the gist back into logistics
Alt0101	Posted - 2009.12.08 08:50:00 - [54] the spirit of a MMO game should be the interaction between its player-base. lets face it, if the only one thing to do in EVE were shooting at AI pixels, well... we better go and play Mario. The exiting thing of being in 0.0 space is that you need to cooperate with other players as a team to forge your little empire. You can live in 0.0 w/out shooting a single pvp shot. Just mining, manufacturing, trading, exploring, ratting for your corp while the pvp lovers protect you and keep the kingdom "safe". CCP should make the necessary improvements in order to make 0.0 space more accesible to players in order that anyone can have a niche to play, pvper's and industrial/explores.. all. I think the fun is there.. not running the same boring missions once and again. Empire and missions should be an easy isk source to new players in order to start but never the "main" income source of the game. 0.0 should be more accesible to the industrial focused player who just don't like pvp. 0.0 could be a place where alliances harvest, manufacture in 0.0 and then sell and trade in empire. maybe not all the minerals can be harvested in any systems and this would open the door either to epic wars or trade alliances. The fun in a MMO game is the feeling of doing something with a bunch or friends working in a team to achieve a common goal. And this should be possible for any kind of player.
Mrs Snowman	Posted - 2009.12.08 09:15:00 - [55] Originally by: Alt0101 If the aim of CCP with Dominion is to make 0.0 spece more attractive for the average player, sigh Dude, you've got it wrong! - it was never intended to make 0.0 more attractive to 'the average player' at all. it was meant to make the 'average 0.0 alliance' more keen to take on the 'average high sec CORP' and we wont know if its been a success until the 'due diligence' period is over. So stop your constant crying and be quiet for a moment, we wont know the results of this for a long time yet.
Locke DieDrake The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.12.08 09:30:00 - [56] Don't nerf missions. BOOST 00 belt ratting. Also, fix the damn CAs so they respawn as promised. Problem solved. Further, I find it amusing that no one complains about research agents as an income source. They require no effort and 1 account with minimal training can farm half a dozen of them for 500m a month easily with almost no effort. ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2009.12.08 09:35:00 - [57] I would go to nullsec, if I didn't have to basically pay for the privilege. As best I can tell from being outside nullsec, the economics of it are that a bunch of 'grunts' end up either paying or breaking even on the replacement programs fighting over resources their directors take most of to pay for titans and other impractical toys. Nullsec should be the wild wild west - a wealth of resources and a lack of laws creating new institutions and conflicts to secure that promise. Instead, it's more like Liberia. Enough resources as to be basically livable if it got its **** together, but wracked with tribal conflicts and massive corruption in what institutions survive. People don't want to jump into a situation where they're expected to make a massive time commitment and an ISK (which is real $) commitment for something that in the best of circumstances, ends up being budget neutral compared to highsec and generally quite a bit worse, especially when the only real end game is enriching your directors. CCP finally (maybe) figured out that the best way to fix that problem is to increase grunt income. But true to form, implementation is so far halfway, and given a look at Eve history, will probably stay halfway forever.
Cash Loki	Posted - 2009.12.08 09:38:00 - [58] I have three accounts that all live in 0.0. I figured lvl 4 do make more isk per hour, but Im sick of doing the same missions and ratting while listening to tunes is much more enjoyable. My solution that is extreme but I think something extreme would have to be the solution. 1. Concord declares all tech 2 ships illegal in 0.5 space and above and T2 only be flown in low sec an 0.0. While were at it tech 2 can only be made in low sec and 0.0. 2. To counter this as I imagine prices would be raised on T2 ships, introduce 6 million dollar rats in the belts in low sec and 0.0! Im just throwing a number out there could be less could be more. 3. Finally with lvl 4, keep the bounties the same but nerf the loot and salvage drop on wrecks in high sec missions. 4. Now that my mind is starting to work here, make up some RP stroy on how Faction Mod become illegal in high sec as well. Anyways for whats its worth those are some of my ideas. I do agree the lvl 4 in empire need to be fixed or 0.0 isk per hour needs to be fixed.
Asuka Smith Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.12.08 09:39:00 - [59] Edited by: Asuka Smith on 08/12/2009 09:41:14 Edited by: Asuka Smith on 08/12/2009 09:39:26 I will go ahead and bite on this old dead horse. Empire Level 4 missions are lame for a series of reasons, the main one being... 1. Tech 1 mission loot. It makes Tech 1 stuff worthless to produce completely removing any production besides T1 ships and invention from the game. It also refines down into raw minerals making mining less profitable than mission running due to the huge supply of minerals that are spawned into the game via the pirate loot drops. Seriously, this is not a joke, mining Arkonor with a perfectly skilled Hulk is LESS EFFECTIVE than level 4 mission running. The actual ISK/HR raw number is nearly the same, but then you have to haul all that ore from 0.0 to empire and refine it and sell it. With an L4 mission you just get the cash up front and have WAY less risk to boot. The fact that the ISK from missions comes from thin air (AKA bounties) that causes wild inflation too. The poor mission runners never accumulate a cent, but they pour billions into the economy. The way to get rich should be by providing goods for ISK that is already in the system, not by adding new ISK into the system. 2. Level 4s have no risk. Sure this is a good thing you say because not everyone can be bothered to risk their ship all day every day. Hell, I even agree with you. I like having something to do with little or no risk where I can just chat to my friends and get paid while I do it. I actually like L4s for that purpose. The problem is that L4s have the least risk AND the most reward. Absurd! The riskiest activity should be the most profitable, not the least risky. Only a fool or someone who was not given a choice would do anything besides level 4 missions for money, that is poor game design. 3. It is lame to put the main draw of people in empire. Again I understand the desire for security but look at Providence and CVA for example. Sure they are not the most elite PVPrs, and sure they lose ships, but they are a good example of the "l4 mission runner" type player holding space in 0.0. The reason only jerks and griefers exist in 0.0 is because no one else tries to live out there, not because no one else can. The problem is that people get stuck in a rut where they never PVP, they never make any friends, and they just run L4 missions solo and destroy the economy just to watch their ISK balance grow, never doing anything with the money. I know that this is the weakest of my three arguments but seriously it just feels lame to play an MMO totally by yourself with no care in the world that the game is supposed to be about PVP. If you do not want to PVP ever no matter what you should simply not be playing EVE, as invariably you will try to corrupt the PVP purity with stupid PVE changes that just **** it up for the "real" players. All the L4 players should take their balance sheets and go conquer some 0.0 space together in a big alliance named "MOTSU RULES", and more importantly you should be rewarded and incentivized irresistibly to do so.
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2009.12.08 09:42:00 - [60] Edited by: Zartanic on 08/12/2009 09:46:15 Originally by: Alt0101 If the aim of CCP with Dominion is to make 0.0 spece more attractive for the average player, they'll fail unless they not nerf the L4s Mission rewards. The relation risk/isk per hour is ridiculous. CCP never stated that aim, it's players who assumed that. Dominion was to be less boring for existing nul sec players it did nothing to attract new players. Small corps do wormholes they are far superior to nul sec. L4 missions fund a lot of nul sec players and there is a lot of other activities which provide a better return. So they need nerfing too? If you want easy prey wandering into your space they need a good reason to go there. At the moment there is none. If they are forced then they will simply play another game. Unlike real life we are not stuck in the EVE universe. Many L4 mission runners do it part time to fund other activities, often PVP, so its absurd to say it's anti social. I wish some people would mind their own business and stop trying to force others to play the way they want. If you completely removed L4 missions it would make NO DIFFERENCE to the number of players in nul sec.

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