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CCP fails at moving people to 0.0

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Psiri	Posted - 2009.12.08 19:02:00 - [151] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Psiri "Poor market" is a short phrase that means "OH GOD YOU CAN MAKE MORE ISK HERE THAN YOU'VE EVER SEEN BEFORE IN YOUR LIFE" I dream of once again living in a part of 0.0 that has a "poor market". The last time I did, I made so much ISK that I was able to do nothing but PvP for 6-7 months. Bloody Jump Freighters ruined all that Well yes, there's much money to be made if you know what you're doing and have the skills and funds to capitalize on it. Unfortunately this is not the case with the vast majority of mission runners.
Cory Sopapilla Minmatar Kiroshi Group	Posted - 2009.12.08 19:56:00 - [152] Everyone knows the majority of the ppl being whined about in lvl 4 missions are alts of ppl in 0.0. Until alliances take in miners/manufacturers in 0.0 it will stay this way. Hopefully there will be a revival of something like Coalition of Free Stars.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.12.08 20:06:00 - [153] Originally by: Cory Sopapilla Everyone knows the majority of the ppl being whined about in lvl 4 missions are alts of ppl in 0.0. Until alliances take in miners/manufacturers in 0.0 it will stay this way. Hopefully there will be a revival of something like Coalition of Free Stars. Many 0.0 alliances would love to welcome miners and manufacturers. I know mine would. We're desperate to get some, tbh. Sadly, we can't match the huge subsidies that high sec offers; free stations, no sov costs, free 23/7 protection, better refining, etc etc., so we only have a very few.
Empire Dweller Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.12.08 20:09:00 - [154] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Cory Sopapilla Everyone knows the majority of the ppl being whined about in lvl 4 missions are alts of ppl in 0.0. Until alliances take in miners/manufacturers in 0.0 it will stay this way. Hopefully there will be a revival of something like Coalition of Free Stars. Many 0.0 alliances would love to welcome miners and manufacturers. I know mine would. We're desperate to get some, tbh. Sadly, we can't match the huge subsidies that high sec offers; free stations, no sov costs, free 23/7 protection, better refining, etc etc., so we only have a very few. So basically you want to treat them like crap, offer nothing in return, and take their profits cause they should be your slaves and work for free? Well gee there wilbur where can i sign up?
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Dissonance Corp Undivided	Posted - 2009.12.08 20:11:00 - [155] Originally by: Empire Dweller So basically you want to treat them like crap, offer nothing in return, and take their profits cause they should be your slaves and work for free? Well gee there wilbur where can i sign up? That isn't what he said at all. Are you a troll or just unable to read or both?
Cory Sopapilla Minmatar Kiroshi Group	Posted - 2009.12.08 20:12:00 - [156] So basically between that issue, gate camps, blobs, and just wanting a quick kill for the killboards of defenseless ships, it's a player induced issue and not a failure on the part of CCP. That's kinda my point ;) Nobody wants to pay 250Mil a month for the right to mine and build stuff when the customers will be killed when trying to get to you anyway.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Dissonance Corp Undivided	Posted - 2009.12.08 20:18:00 - [157] Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 08/12/2009 20:18:15 Originally by: Cory Sopapilla So basically between that issue, gate camps, blobs, and just wanting a quick kill for the killboards of defenseless ships, it's a player induced issue and not a failure on the part of CCP. That's kinda my point ;) Nobody wants to pay 250Mil a month for the right to mine and build stuff when the customers will be killed when trying to get to you anyway. yes I too am confused on how to find potential consumers when people are losing ships constantly all around you.
Cory Sopapilla Minmatar Kiroshi Group	Posted - 2009.12.08 20:23:00 - [158] Edited by: Cory Sopapilla on 08/12/2009 20:23:35 Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 08/12/2009 20:18:15 Originally by: Cory Sopapilla So basically between that issue, gate camps, blobs, and just wanting a quick kill for the killboards of defenseless ships, it's a player induced issue and not a failure on the part of CCP. That's kinda my point ;) Nobody wants to pay 250Mil a month for the right to mine and build stuff when the customers will be killed when trying to get to you anyway. yes I too am confused on how to find potential consumers when people are losing ships constantly all around you. I think you missed the posts a little higher. "All around you" when the point is they aren't taking in manufacturers doesn't make sense. Currently "All around me" is hi-sec.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.12.08 20:32:00 - [159] Originally by: Empire Dweller Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Cory Sopapilla Everyone knows the majority of the ppl being whined about in lvl 4 missions are alts of ppl in 0.0. Until alliances take in miners/manufacturers in 0.0 it will stay this way. Hopefully there will be a revival of something like Coalition of Free Stars. Many 0.0 alliances would love to welcome miners and manufacturers. I know mine would. We're desperate to get some, tbh. Sadly, we can't match the huge subsidies that high sec offers; free stations, no sov costs, free 23/7 protection, better refining, etc etc., so we only have a very few. So basically you want to treat them like crap, offer nothing in return, and take their profits cause they should be your slaves and work for free? Well gee there wilbur where can i sign up? I dont see how you got that from what I said. Please explain.
Murashu Eye of God Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.12.08 20:32:00 - [160] I don't really care if a bunch of people move out to 0.0 or not. I'd just like to make as much money in my home system (0.0) as I do in the safety of high sec. My mission running alt makes nearly double what I can earn from ratting and he has less than half the SPs. I won't even get into the whole risk vs reward convo. Some people just do not want to take risks so they are quite happy missioning in empire. Maybe some day CCP will decide to balance the rewards for leaving empire, but I wouldn't hold your breathe. _______ Murashu Agony's End

GavinCapacitor	Posted - 2009.12.08 21:04:00 - [161] Originally by: Alt0101 If the aim of CCP with Dominion is to make 0.0 spece more attractive for the average player, they'll fail unless they not nerf the L4s Mission rewards. The relation risk/isk per hour is ridiculous. Oh look, its this thread again.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.12.08 21:06:00 - [162] Originally by: GavinCapacitor Originally by: Alt0101 If the aim of CCP with Dominion is to make 0.0 spece more attractive for the average player, they'll fail unless they not nerf the L4s Mission rewards. The relation risk/isk per hour is ridiculous. Oh look, its this thread again. I feel quite nostalgic.
nafiy gnaw	Posted - 2009.12.08 21:08:00 - [163] I believe that lvl4 mission income should be nerfed to about 15-20 million per hour (with a marauder, that is), aka half of what it pays now. However, leave it there so that casual players has something to do with their battleship. well......... Its ridiculus high income at the moment induces an incredible oppurtunity cost that pretty much makes a lot of other activities in the game pointless to do from an economic point of view. Of course, a sane person will eventually be bored of mission running, yea
Lady Katrana Wild Jokers	Posted - 2009.12.08 21:17:00 - [164] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Lady Katrana I don't think CCP intended a mass migration from high sec as the end result of dominion. No, that was pretty much the goal stated at fanfest. Whether it was a realistic goal is a different matter, but the intention was clear. Fair enough, but one has to wonder how much of what they were saying was professing their pipe dream and how much was stating what their realistic intentions are.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.08 21:29:00 - [165] Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 08/12/2009 21:35:36 Originally by: nafiy gnaw I believe that lvl4 mission income should be nerfed to about 15-20 million per hour (with a marauder, that is), aka half of what it pays now. However, leave it there so that casual players has something to do with their battleship. well......... Its ridiculus high income at the moment induces an incredible oppurtunity cost that pretty much makes a lot of other activities in the game pointless to do from an economic point of view. Of course, a sane person will eventually be bored of mission running, yea Suppose CCP were to do this and there still isn't that influx of targets into lo and 0.0 space that some are hoping for. Then what? Would these silly 'omg nerfz kearbearz!1! theyz havin 2 much iskies and more funn dan mee!1' whines cease? I think not. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Steppa Gallente The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.08 21:35:00 - [166] Originally by: Brujo Loco OMG, not another NERF L4s thread again ... whats next? nerf AFK Cloakers? Nerf Local threads? Both of those are noble quests and not easily thrown aside. I believe it was the medieval Japanese who said, "a man could spend his entire life searching for a way to nerf afk cloakers without ever finding one...and it would still be a life worth living."
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.12.08 21:42:00 - [167] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Suppose CCP were to do this and there still isn't that influx of targets into lo and 0.0 space that some are hoping for. Then what? Suppose they do and here is. What will you do then?
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.08 21:45:00 - [168] Run a mission today! Help grief a PVPer. With just one hi sec mission per day one PVPer gets to shed tears of bitter agony and jealousy. Think of the tears you could be harnessing. Do we not owe this to them? Do you not owe this to yourself? Call now and find out what you can do to help. Operators are standing by. Call 1.800.BOOOHOO Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.08 21:57:00 - [169] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Suppose CCP were to do this and there still isn't that influx of targets into lo and 0.0 space that some are hoping for. Then what? Suppose they do and here is. What will you do then? And herein lies the difference between you haters and me. I honestly wouldn't care who decided to move to low/0.0 sec after your incessant whines to nerf my playstyle. My only question would be AM I a still enjoying the game enough to continue paying a subscription? Can I still have fun doing what I want to do within the rules in spite of haters like you sticking your noses on what I do with my time every night? And I'd go from there. You see, I don't care what you do with your time, Malcanis. Believe it or not, there are many more people out there that really don't mind what others do. Unfortunately there is a VERY LOUD minority that do have a malignant need and desire to impose your way of life and style on others. But this isn't the norm. And fortunately for us, CCP keeps a level head when making decisions such as the radical ones you wish to see realized. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.12.08 22:12:00 - [170] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Malcanis you haters A comparison between the language you use and that which I use might point the finger of accusation in the other direction.

Psiri	Posted - 2009.12.08 22:17:00 - [171] Another thing I'd like to add is that 0.0 hasn't been about actually controlling space for a very long time now. It's been about controlling towers, not keeping hostiles out of claimed space. Even if Dominion brings us alot of changes, I doubt that we'll see more alliances guarding their borders against roamers that could disrupt the ratting and mining activities. 0.0 is a thousand times better off than lowsec in terms of risk versus reward though.
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.08 22:36:00 - [172] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Suppose CCP were to do this and there still isn't that influx of targets into lo and 0.0 space that some are hoping for. Then what? Suppose they do and here is. What will you do then? Lulz at all the piwate tears cos it'd mean CCP implemented some new safety feature to protect the runners in their lo/nosec ventures. That's the only way they'd move down there in droves is if it was made as secure as hisec to do it. Otherwise they'd stay in hisec and do L3's. But me, you and the Three-Legged Snozzwanger all know it ain't happening. If anything I predict L5's will eventually move to hisec. Awaiting that day with popcorn and a 55-gallon drum for Epic Tears collection.
Drunk Driver Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.12.08 22:36:00 - [173] Posting in a failed-pirate needs CCP's help thread....
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.08 22:46:00 - [174] Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 08/12/2009 22:46:31 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Malcanis you haters A comparison between the language you use and that which I use might point the finger of accusation in the other direction. Oh? Don't play that card, Malc. It only takes a few minutes of searching your name in eve-search to find your posts riddled with sarcastic, egotistical, and snobby responses towards those players you particularly don't like. Granted, your responses are more tongue-in-cheek insults compared to Le Skunk's and Ruze. But they're still insults. So don't play that card here. You spearhead the campaign against everything carebear. Keep it real, because it's no secret. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Devan Reale	Posted - 2009.12.08 23:23:00 - [175] This has been going on for a while, and I think one side isn't even listening to the other. On that point, as a high-sec industrialist, I'd like to comment on what Malcanis asked, and give my humble opinion on it. Originally by: Malcanis Many 0.0 alliances would love to welcome miners and manufacturers. I know mine would. We're desperate to get some, tbh. Sadly, we can't match the huge subsidies that high sec offers; free stations, no sov costs, free 23/7 protection, better refining, etc etc., so we only have a very few. I think that if many hig-sec'ers thought that was true, many would be willing to join up to do their thing (ratting, mining, manufacturing) in null sec to a) have fun and b) take part in a large corp where they could contribute. I don't know what you mean by "free stations" (mine ain't free), free protection (we get ganked regularly up here in high sec), and we have no desire to "take" and hold space. On top of that, remember that many HAVE NO INTEREST IN PVP. You guys read that? NO INTEREST IN PVP. Moving the rox will get players dead from other players. Ratting will get players dead from other players. Unless they're station spinners, players BY DEFAULT are forced into PVP, where in high sec we're not. Hell, I'd love to take my main and my industrialists into null sec, help out these corps that are BEGGING for miners and industrialists, but I have no desire to get popped on a daily basis by someone just looking to pad their killmail collection. I'd love to take part in null sec ratting and some of the new things that have been added to null sec & sovereignty, but I have no desire to do pvp on a daily basis. I'm not complaining, and I don't want to change anyone else's play style. I just have no desire, given the way the game is played today, to go to null sec. Some things I'd love to do, but I can do most of it on a smaller scale in high sec, and not screw around with constantly paying for new ships and gear. It's that simple. By definintion, 0.0 means PVP, and since the game supports playstyle OTHER THAN padding one's killmail collection, moving people happy with high sec into null sec is not going to happen unless something changes.
Kewso	Posted - 2009.12.08 23:26:00 - [176] missions is not the problem at all. move level 4's to low sec = people move to farming level 3's move level 3's to low sec = people move to farming level 2's or mining/exploration in highsec/etc. it's not the missions that keep people in highsec
Aaron Eternal Frontier	Posted - 2009.12.09 02:25:00 - [177] LOL, all these requests to change this or that. I say accept the game for what it is, or however CCP decide to make it. Its the players that need to go out and get whatever it is they want, CCP cant make them goto 0.0.
Octoven	Posted - 2009.12.09 02:56:00 - [178] I dont care how CCP changed 0.0 or low sec or the rewards for going. In my opinion the sense of mining or mission running rather safely is more of a reward to me then anything CCP can offer.
Lady Kihler	Posted - 2009.12.09 02:58:00 - [179] It seems to me that in order to move out to 0.0 and be successfull you need skills ships and lots of isk..and it would seem lvl 4 midsions are a good way to achieve that.You run out od isk and ships real quick in 0.0..why not make it more profitable to be in 0.0 rather than nerf the means to get there??
crastar	Posted - 2009.12.09 03:09:00 - [180] look at me posting in a whiny thread!!!!



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