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CCP fails at moving people to 0.0

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Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.12.08 09:44:00 - [61] Originally by: Darth Satanicus Could someone please explain what this 'problem' is with high sec mission runners? I see them all the time and they never seem to cause anyone any problems, least of all people who are 40 odd jumps away doing 0.0 things. The problem is that mission-running is a non-competitive activity (pretty much the only one) in a competitive game and that on top of that, they make a ridiculous amount of money per hour at very small risk.
Sile37	Posted - 2009.12.08 09:45:00 - [62] Voice from Drone Regione. We have established a hub and two upgrades (Pirate Detection Array lvl 1 and 2) in one system. After passage of eight anomalies we have received 30kk Isk. How in such system can live 50 persons?!
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2009.12.08 09:47:00 - [63] Edited by: Zartanic on 08/12/2009 09:49:54 Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Darth Satanicus Could someone please explain what this 'problem' is with high sec mission runners? I see them all the time and they never seem to cause anyone any problems, least of all people who are 40 odd jumps away doing 0.0 things. The problem is that mission-running is a non-competitive activity (pretty much the only one) in a competitive game and that on top of that, they make a ridiculous amount of money per hour at very small risk. You seriously suggesting nul sec has risk? And missions fund competitive activities, don't you care about that? Without that income many players could not fund their other activities. The only reason why you want to nerf L4's is because you're under the allusion you will get more victims, well that would never happen without a Nul sec worth going to. Right now its a pointless place to be.
BeanBagKing The Keepers of Gold Gypsy Nation	Posted - 2009.12.08 09:49:00 - [64] Originally by: Brujo Loco [Stuff was here] Here, THE EVE WHEEL OF WHINEAGE for your whining pleasure, yes? Click on it and go bonkers ... [More stuff was here] 1) Win post is above, I love the wheel of whinage! 2) Before we start ***ing and moaning and complaining about 0.0 not changing can we at least WAIT TILL THE GRACE PERIOD IS OVER ON THE 15TH It's amazing, people started whining about changes before they even hit last month, then they whine some more that stuff isn't happening fast enough, IT"S BEEN A WEEK! The grace period isn't over for another week! Even after that, dear god, give it some time for things to settle and see how 0.0 shapes up! Are you seriously that impatient that you *** that nothing has worked because it's been 7 days and you don't see a change? Sov takes time, Goons and TCF and all the others aren't going to roll over on the night of the first and say here noobs! take all this space CCP says we won't need anymore! FFS!! ASDPKFJ@#:LKNJ!@#:POJ@#$:OKOJASDF panting sorry... I'm finished now, I hope I made my point before I went ape****.
Vadimik Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.08 09:54:00 - [65] Should level 4's be nerfed in it's profitability or (even better) moved to lowsec instead? Hell they do, if you ask me! And not because of "more people to nullsec" or anything, but because the current situation is just RE-TAR-DED. The most obvious highsec no-brainer if by far the most profitable activity in the game. This results into players being almost forced into this boredoom-fest if they want to raise some isk quickly and safe. On top of that, the whole issue of literally thousands of pirat fleets with dozens of BS's each being found in highsec daily (the same highsec where concord can and will spawn anywhere at the first notice) makes perfectly no sense storyline-wise. As for the "players will quit if lvl 4's are balanced" argument, it's just daft. Who are those players exactly if all they care is stable high income no risk singleplayer-ish activity? Real money traders? Cause those who "just enjoy missions" can just as well run lvl 3's in a cruiser instead, and those who need isk "to fuel the PvP" are wellcomed to finally realise that everyone will have to earn money the hard way for PvP ships, not just them.
Jojo Jackson	Posted - 2009.12.08 09:59:00 - [66] Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 08/12/2009 10:04:29 Originally by: Alt0101 If the aim of CCP with Dominion is to make 0.0 spece more attractive for the average player, they'll fail unless they not nerf the L4s Mission rewards. The relation risk/isk per hour is ridiculous. Fail It's not level 4 or anythink not related with 0.0 that stops people to go there. It's you, the one who claim to live there, who stops new player to venture into 0.0! Rookie start exploring EvE. Rookie likes to see the "dangures" space. Rookie get ganged behind the first gate out of highsec. Rookie never again want to explore low-/no-sec. Bingo, once again YOU manage to drive another Rookie out of the space you want him to be in. Again, YOU failed! Not CCP or anyone else. PS: and while we are here with our weekly "nerv highsec" whine .... here my weekly "nervy piracy" whine ;) As soon as CONCORD is involved in your ship-lose -> NO INSURENCE PAYOUT !! This ganging with speculating on insurence == exploid of the game mechanic => should be banable action !!
Lord Xanthoh	Posted - 2009.12.08 10:07:00 - [67] Edited by: Lord Xanthoh on 08/12/2009 10:08:22 CCP wants to get more people into nullsec? Get rid of the gate bubbles. Problem solved... And I am saying this as a PVPer who'd welcome more adventurers into nullsec. Gate bubbles are boring and defeat the whole idea of bringing diversity into nullsec.
Sharise Dragonstar	Posted - 2009.12.08 10:26:00 - [68] Edited by: Sharise Dragonstar on 08/12/2009 10:27:52 0.0 space is a very dangerous place to be, you will lose ships almost garaunteed. To be 0.0 viable you need to be able to afford it. Only way to do that really is be part of a large corp who will replace lost ships for you. From what I have heard solo and small corps just get eaten up in 0.0 space by the larger corps. I do intend going into 0.0 sec one day but not before I got a 2-3 billion ISK myself or become part of a large corp. There is very little CCP can do to get people who cant afford to go to high sec to actually go there, the risk of losing your ship is to high.
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.12.08 10:26:00 - [69] The OP is a tool. People will never move to 0.0 as long as its so hard to make a profit unless you are part of a serious corp/alliance - or one of the few truly elite players. The gate/bubble stem is just too deadly. All serious movement even by alliances is done with jump freighters. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.12.08 10:29:00 - [70] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Suboran move lvl 4's to low sec and problem solved problem with that is that just a small portion (really small) will move to lowsec with the missions. the other will try to live by with lvl3's and quit after a couple of weeks. exaclty! Most people wil NOT move battleships for low sec to run missions. I live in low sec, and even having ton of allies around I do not feel well with battleships solo in low sec. No way most carebears would. The only way to make some more people run missions in low sec would be to make missiosn that can be done in cheaper ships, give more isk in low sec than leel 4 in high sec. How? MASSIVELY boost level 3 missions in low sec. Make each one give like 4-5 K LP and payoff increased by 5 fold. THen you will have lots oF BC trying low sec missions.
Dr Karsun Gallente HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.08 10:30:00 - [71] CCP is not the problem here. It's the general mmo player mentality. I've had a huge problem getting to 0.0. The first thing is that a newbie thinks that he will gradually get better, gradually get better stuff for your ship and move to more dangerous space slowly from 1.0 to 0.0. We all know eve does not work like that. Actually, it's low sec that's the problem, not 0.0. Getting a hand in pvp is far, far easier in 0.0 than in low sec. You don't need a mega decent tank with a bs or t2 cruiser ( hac, etc) to tank because there are no sentries. The rats are worth a ton in 0.0 beeing slightly harder to kill. 0.0 makes you on a semi-constant watch for reds all the time, when they jump in you just scan, see what they are in and run to station, hide. And in fact it's really easy to survive. I lost a ratting ship only once. And you say level 4 missions are good isk in high sec? You must be kidding me. We were flying in 0.0 yesterday, around 30m isk per hour (bounties) plus salvage plus loot, a fleet of 5 battleships just running anomalies one after another. I've never been so rich as I am now, isk never came so easy as it comes now. Making custom signatures and banners - check my in-game bio for details!
Melor Rend	Posted - 2009.12.08 10:34:00 - [72] I agree with OP. CCP totally failed with dominion. The system upgrades are a sick joke created by people that never had to earn ISK in their life (anoms are a total load of ** with low-bounty targets like you'd expect to find in lowsec - just as everyone predicted when they announced it, nerfed plexes suck arse etc.). Total and utter fail on all levels. Give us level 4 agents in 0.0 NOW or seriously boost the ing anoms!! Every single anom has to be able to sustain at least one player (meaning the player can earn decent ISK per hour) and not this we currently have!!! You fail CCP... if you guys had any ing idea about what your 0.0 playerbase wants then you would never have introduced this crappy excuse of an upgrade... Get the finger out, listen to your players and fix the damn income levels! Just nerfing level 4s isn't worth ** as long as the income in 0.0 sucks as badly as it currently does. You guys really don't have a clue... Shame on you (and on the imbecile of dev that thought anoms were a good system upgrade - go back to SOE!!) I just hope Star Trek Online or one of the other new space MMOs is worth something. Then I'm so out of here.
Idami Raptor Gallente Section Eight LLC Omega Vector	Posted - 2009.12.08 10:42:00 - [73] Edited by: Idami Raptor on 08/12/2009 10:42:16 You know, I remember a time when there was no Warp to 0, another of those things that some people think has 'killed EvE'. You had to warp to 15km away and CRAWL to the gate/station. If there was a hostile sitting there wanting to dust you, well, you had a problem. People couldn't tolerate this hardcoreness, so what did they do? They reached deep into their carebear little hearts and realized a bookmark 15km past the gate/station would allow them to drop out of warp right on top of it. Instas, they called 'em. Then some bright bugger had the idea to sell them. Trick being, they were stored, copied, etc, server side, and the database load got to the point where it was crippling the server. They could've just deleted all bookmarks within 100km of a gate/station and disallowed the creation of more, but they didn't. Why? The screaming. the cancelled accounts. It would've been horrible. So they gave us warp to 0, so they could get the load down without us crying. CCP is smart enough to realize when a seemingly logical change would ultimately turn out bad in terms of the number of people you ** off. They also have an economist that can tell them what the fallout would be. Nerfing level 4s for example. Good way to instantly off most of the people who run them. Many of whom WILL NEVER EVER EVER EVER GO TO 0.0 NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!** Carebears will always be carebears. You can't make them HTFU by taking their money away, no. You take their income and they either find something else carebear to do or they leave the game entirely. Not so bad, you think? CCP has admitted most of the game's population lives in Empire. These people build ships, they mine, they explore, they do all kinds of stuff we combat types don't like. Stuff that we wouldn't have ships to fly without. Hell lots of them even mine ICE of all things, even though they'd be better off mining veldspar! And then there's the money from the missions. Where does it come from? Nowhere! The server CREATES it when you get a payout! Same with bounties! Changing payouts on level 4s, or moving them to lowsec, would DRASTICALLY alter the amount of money coming in to the economy. And if the isk sinks that destroy it are too powerful for the new income, DEFLATION HERE WE COME. CCP knows this, and it's why all you're doing is tilting at the bloody windmill again. Stop it, that's a donkey, not a war horse, and you look like an idiot.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.12.08 10:46:00 - [74] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 08/12/2009 10:47:22 Originally by: Sharise Dragonstar Edited by: Sharise Dragonstar on 08/12/2009 10:27:52 0.0 space is a very dangerous place to be, you will lose ships almost garaunteed. To be 0.0 viable you need to be able to afford it. Only way to do that really is be part of a large corp who will replace lost ships for you. From what I have heard solo and small corps just get eaten up in 0.0 space by the larger corps. I do intend going into 0.0 sec one day but not before I got a 2-3 billion ISK myself or become part of a large corp. There is very little CCP can do to get people who cant afford to go to high sec to actually go there, the risk of losing your ship is to high. You are worth an answer. You don't need billions of ISK--that presumes you will lose lots (or a couple expensive) ships which is a losing attitude. Nullsec is not overly troublesome once you learn the ropes. Any half-ass corp can show you how to make ISK in nullsec easily and safely. Any half-ass sov-holding corp/alliance will have a fleet BC/BS replacement program and probably a corp hangar filled with T1 stuff/ships (cruiser/frigs etc) for you to enjoy. With that said: 1-It's too early to see any effects of changes to nullsec. 2-If you don't go....how do you know? EDITAlso lulz at folks wanting L4 missions nerfed. It won't happen. Give it up. You cannot force pilots to play a certain way and why the **** should they?
Chloe Ordimus	Posted - 2009.12.08 11:03:00 - [75] Originally by: Seishi Maru Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Suboran move lvl 4's to low sec and problem solved problem with that is that just a small portion (really small) will move to lowsec with the missions. the other will try to live by with lvl3's and quit after a couple of weeks. exaclty! Most people wil NOT move battleships for low sec to run missions. I live in low sec, and even having ton of allies around I do not feel well with battleships solo in low sec. No way most carebears would. The only way to make some more people run missions in low sec would be to make missiosn that can be done in cheaper ships, give more isk in low sec than leel 4 in high sec. How? MASSIVELY boost level 3 missions in low sec. Make each one give like 4-5 K LP and payoff increased by 5 fold. THen you will have lots oF BC trying low sec missions. Actually, this never really comes up but has struck a chord with me. It isn't actually running the missions in low sec that is much of an issue. The issue is taking something like a BS low sec for a PVE activity which is generally done solo. If you go low sec to rat, rarely do you take a BS you take a cruiser or an AF. At most you bring a BC. Partly the issue is a BS is an expensive, slow lumbering and easily caught ship. Level 4's basically require a BS to be done efficiently. What I believe needs to change is the whole design of the missions themselves. Rather than spawning just more and more rats per mission with ever increasing DPS to make them harder, it would be much better to have far less rats who have better tanks etc and are worth more per bounty. So rather than 30 rats, you have 4-5, with much much higher bounties and are much tougher to kill. This will try and emulate pvp environment much better as well. So rather than having to take a raven into a level 4, which is going to get me killed in low sec, I can take, say a Diemost or maybe vagabond, Thorax, Rupture anything that is much smaller. I would still be able to do the mission, I would still get the uber rewards, but I would also be much more inclined to be able to escape the pirates or fight back more effectively, than in my big active tanking lump. Or as above, keep level 4's as they are in high sec, but massive increase the rewards for lvl 2's and 3's in low sec. Making them in some ways much more lucrative than lvl 4's in high sec. Maybe not with the bounties but certainly the loyalty points. That way, I will happily do missions in low sec, happily invite pirates to come and shoot me, knowing I'm much more likely to be able to escape and probably have more fun doing it. For me it's the ships I take to low sec that are the issue, not actually going there to run missions. I'm in low sec all the time, I don't care about getting blown up, because when I bring ships to low sec I expect it. My issue is bringing say, a Golem to low sec. Even the hardcore PVPer's very rarely bring the faction ships to war, or faction fitted tech II ships. It's the design of missions that are the issue. BS and BC just don't cut it on the whole escape and invade thing. There are a few ships that can do lvl 4's that are agile, like the cerberus or Ishtar, but they are few and far between. If I only had to face 3 super hard rats in a mission, which I had to scramble and then kill like I would in PVP, I would be much more inclined to go low sec. As it stands you need the BS to do them quickly, but then you are easily caught. Or you bring the BC which will make you do them slowly, so by the time the pirates come, you have no way of completing the mission.
Schayol Sunkeeper Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.08 11:12:00 - [76] people once again fail at understanding the reason why there are so little ( compared ) people in nullsec is that the local system owners don't want you to be there. they gain no benefit from it. count it, how many alliances are out there that DON'T shoot people the instant they see them ? CCP should just make having visitors or something give big alliances a benefit, for letting them live in their space, and the problem would simply solve itself
Griller SW Gallente ORE-TECH Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.08 11:26:00 - [77] Quote: ..... It's the design of missions that are the issue. BS and BC just don't cut it on the whole escape and invade thing. There are a few ships that can do lvl 4's that are agile, like the cerberus or Ishtar, but they are few and far between. If I only had to face 3 super hard rats in a mission, which I had to scramble and then kill like I would in PVP, I would be much more inclined to go low sec. As it stands you need the BS to do them quickly, but then you are easily caught. Or you bring the BC which will make you do them slowly, so by the time the pirates come, you have no way of completing the mission. Epic pirates use speed boats Somehow I think this is what they want to try and want to start small. I'd like to see this extended to lvl 3s in low sec in the future, somehow ------ No good deed goes unpunished...
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.08 11:41:00 - [78] Originally by: Jojo Jackson Fail It's not level 4 or anythink not related with 0.0 that stops people to go there. It's you, the one who claim to live there, who stops new player to venture into 0.0! Rookie start exploring EvE. Rookie likes to see the "dangures" space. Rookie get ganged behind the first gate out of highsec. Rookie never again want to explore low-/no-sec. Bingo, once again YOU manage to drive another Rookie out of the space you want him to be in. Again, YOU failed! Not CCP or anyone else. Ding ding, we have a winner! But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. EVE has devs that care about sound? (Ha ha ha! Gotcha. It actually doesn't!)
Takseen	Posted - 2009.12.08 11:45:00 - [79] Originally by: Vadimik Should level 4's be nerfed in it's profitability or (even better) moved to lowsec instead? Hell they do, if you ask me! And not because of "more people to nullsec" or anything, but because the current situation is just RE-TAR-DED. The most obvious highsec no-brainer if by far the most profitable activity in the game. This results into players being almost forced into this boredoom-fest if they want to raise some isk quickly and safe. On top of that, the whole issue of literally thousands of pirat fleets with dozens of BS's each being found in highsec daily (the same highsec where concord can and will spawn anywhere at the first notice) makes perfectly no sense storyline-wise. As for the "players will quit if lvl 4's are balanced" argument, it's just daft. Who are those players exactly if all they care is stable high income no risk singleplayer-ish activity? Real money traders? Cause those who "just enjoy missions" can just as well run lvl 3's in a cruiser instead, and those who need isk "to fuel the PvP" are wellcomed to finally realise that everyone will have to earn money the hard way for PvP ships, not just them. As a relatively new player with little to no interest in PvP, I agree with this entirely. I did some probing in Empire last night, found a half-cleared drone plex and a wormhole containing a grav site with some arkonor. The drone plex was limited to cruisers, was much harder than any level 2 missions I had done, and I got less loot/no standings/no mission payout from it. Now I had great fun doing both, but at the back of my mind was the thought that I could have made 2x/3x as much just running level 3s in my Myrm. And that was a little depressing. Plus the lorelol of there being these masses of cruiser fleets that pop into existence every time I talk to a L3 agent, but that the massive empire fleets somehow can't deal with, is also annoying.
Electra GaafCramo	Posted - 2009.12.08 11:51:00 - [80] Noone bothers to tell that it takes a significant investment to truely beat 0.0 isk / hour income with lvl 4 missions. This is very true (said the guy hiding his 2003 char behind an alt :D )
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.12.08 11:52:00 - [81] ITT: Morons wanting carebears to flock to 0.0 so they can shoot them (like fish in a barrel). Risk-averse people aren't going to move somewhere where there is a risk of them getting blown up by another player even if that risk is very small, they'd just quit instead. Look at low-sec, it's a wasteland for the most part and most carebears you speak to assume there is a gatecamp on every single entry point in there. Bottom line is that CCP isn't dumb. If everything else remained the same (i.e. cost of modules, etc) and L4s were just moved to lowsec or the payouts nerfed very few if any people currently running them in Motsu et al would go there. Most likely they'd just quit instead, in droves. Though I'm sure in your insular World you've considered all the possible ramifications of fking with a symbiotic system, I mean having a much smaller market for the faction/deadspace mods that drop from low/null sites and having to pay 300m for a Vagabond because there is fk all miners or industry folks left playing has been fully weighed up, right?
Noun Verber Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:00:00 - [82] Originally by: Brujo Loco OMG, not another NERF L4s thread again ... whats next? nerf AFK Cloakers? Nerf Local threads? What the hell is going on? I feel back in 2006 ... People cant come up with better stuff to whine on? PLEASE at least when you wanna post a whine, be more original Here, THE EVE WHEEL OF WHINEAGE for your whining pleasure, yes? Click on it and go bonkers ... Also for your pleasure, here are several dead horses for you to beat on Horse 1 Horse 2 Horse 3 Thanks for the wheel link
SickSeven Nova Aquilae	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:02:00 - [83] I'm sorry, I must have missed the part in the game description where it said "EVE is a PVP game and you will be subject to PVP at all times. If you dont wish to partake in PVP dont play." cry more n00bs
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:07:00 - [84] Originally by: SickSeven I'm sorry, I must have missed the part in the game description where it said "EVE is a PVP game and you will be subject to PVP at all times. If you dont wish to partake in PVP dont play." cry more n00bs What they don't get is that most of the income from missions (LPs, well theoretically anyway) is competitive since trade = PvP! LP items are also a significant ISK sink (with few exceptions). But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. EVE has devs that care about sound? (Ha ha ha! Gotcha. It actually doesn't!)
RabbitofDoom	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:08:00 - [85] Originally by: RuleoftheBone With that said: 1-It's too early to see any effects of changes to nullsec. 2-If you don't go....how do you know? EDITAlso lulz at folks wanting L4 missions nerfed. It won't happen. Give it up. You cannot force pilots to play a certain way and why the **** should they? Atm it seems that ccp was also aiming to spread the 0.0 wealth. If i understand it correctly complexes were nerfed for a reason. It also seems that anomalies faction spawn rates were also lowered. Soo you need to run more complexes and anomalies to get similiar results. Ofcourse you need time to run them. It is giving opportunity for other players in alliance to run them. You might earn less but the alliance as a whole earns more. Now the upgrades. If with upgrades a total net gain of alliance increases well we got a buff even if individual player income drops. Ofcourse if the system works as intended. There is a number of problems that are currently starting to surfacing in every 0.0 alliance. 1. Moon minerals nerf. 2. Infrastructure upkeep prices. With moon nerf costs of runing a jb network is becaming a heavy burden for any 0.0 alliance. It might lead to 3 things. 1. Cuting off the bridges in to more remote parts of space. 2. Forcing holding companies to draw money from members corps pockets. 3. Increasing ammount of renting. All those things will further decrease alliance members individual income. Either directly due to increased tax or indirectly like cuts in reimbursment programs or over-concentration of alliance members in a single constelation/pocket. Not to mention things like increased travel times for complex runers and increased risk due to operating in a big swatches of empty space without any intel. Now the market prices. T2 salvage,Dead space modules and large part of faction items are coming mostly from 0.0. Increased amount of those modules entering the market will certainly decrease the prices. Lowered prices will also increase demand on them. On the other hand we have a dd change that will affect important buyers niche for those items capital ships pilots. It might increase the demand for those modules due to a larger number of capitals destroyed. It might lead also to t2 fited capitals severly crippling that part of the market. Mission runners are mostly one time buyers of such items. The good scenario is that the earings from those part of them market will increase even with the decreased prices. The bad scenario is that the demand and prices will drop heavily because most of the customers will be one time buyers. Also gank value of their pimpmobiles will be lowered allowing them to put more of the ds mods without a risk of geting ganked in hisek. (simple equation amount of gankers required/drop value)This can lead to a short spike on demand and prices that would quickly return to normal. Personaly i belive that we can talk about fail/success of this expansion in about 3 months. 1,5 till peoples adjust to new reality 1,5 for market to react and adopt to new economy conditions.
El Liptonez	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:26:00 - [86] The only thing I find kind of fail is, that 0.0 players have to go to high sec to make their isk. Yes they don't have to, but if they're that stupid wasting their time by ratting to make 1/2 of the isk they'd get from mission running, that is their fault. And yeah, I personally think 0.0 should make you rich, not because of risk/reward (can't deny it's part of the reason too though), but rather in a roleplaying way (even if you don't do that stuff) and at least to have people staying in 0.0 and not going to high sec during the week. That is just gay. Having to have riches to have a good time in 0.0 is bull****, you should be able to do the things you want to do in high/low/0.0 sec. Nerfing level 4 missions doesn't fix anything, there should just simply be the boost of income in 0.0 to make the stay there worthwhile.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:33:00 - [87] Originally by: Takseen Now I had great fun doing both, but at the back of my mind was the thought that I could have made 2x/3x as much just running level 3s in my Myrm. And that was a little depressing. Do you play the game to make ISK? That=work. Or... Do you play for fun...which it seems you had in either case. And made varying amounts of ISK as a secondary effect of your fun. Sounds win to me either way
Ebanni Ebanni Mercantile	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:36:00 - [88] Originally by: Alt0101 If the aim of CCP with Dominion is to make 0.0 spece more attractive for the average player, they'll fail unless they not nerf the L4s Mission rewards. The relation risk/isk per hour is ridiculous. To "the average player", no. The changes in SOV are meant to encourage small corps to move out there. Which is to say I agree because 90% of those people who want to be in 0.0 are ALREADY there. BUT... CCP has already offered many "would-be" 0.0 colonists something better. That would be Wormholes. Many wormholes offer many of the advantages of 0.0 space that any small Corp could hope to get in regional 0.0 space BUT without the hassles of dodging blobs of rabid PVPer's and/or hoping fleets of Capitals don't drop by to nuke a POS or two. Political freedom is also high on the list for WH pilots . Although DOMINION may offer the means for some 0.0 corps to break free of a less than agreeable Alliance, such independence is far, far easier to achieve and retain in WH's, so why would anyone bother with 0.0, DOMINION or not. All of which has nothing to do with Level 4 missions, which the OP suggests is the root of all evil. Hardly. There are no missions in WH space (that I'm aware of, anyway). It's all about politics and the freedom to do whatever you want in EvE, and that's not going to change with any new release much less reducing the ISK revenues on level 4 missions.
Eelis Kiy Gallente Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:38:00 - [89] Perhaps CCP should move Jita out to 0.0 too
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Dissonance Corp Undivided	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:39:00 - [90] Originally by: Lord Xanthoh Edited by: Lord Xanthoh on 08/12/2009 10:08:22 CCP wants to get more people into nullsec? Get rid of the gate bubbles. Problem solved... And I am saying this as a PVPer who'd welcome more adventurers into nullsec. Gate bubbles are boring and defeat the whole idea of bringing diversity into nullsec. lol I actually made my first 300 mil running a stabbed tormentor full of zydrine from empire to the arse-end of Providence over and over. Getting into 0.0 isn't that hard. Here's a tip: look for entry points that haven't had many or any kills within the past 3 hours according to the eve map filters.

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