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The Legion still sucks. It really, really sucks.

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Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.01.10 22:04:00 - [1] The reasons for why the Legion sucks, are... well, legion. - The laser configuration is undergunned and inflexible. Barely higher damage output than a Zealot or even tech 1 BC. Needs 7th turret. - The missile configuration doesn't have enough bonuses. Damage + RoF is insufficient, needs buff to explosion velocity or something. - Lack of range bonus on nos/neut configuration. - Hahahaha re: drone configuration. Popular opinion has it that the Legion is the worst of the T3 ships. I'm sure a handful will disagree, but who cares. Comparing the Legion's damage output to that of a Proteus is a telling indicator - comparing the absolutely boring and stupid bonuses of the Legion to say, the Loki's webs, or the Proteus' scram bonus is another. Pls buff this ship until it can cut it as something other than a bubble-proof stealth hauler.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2010.01.10 22:08:00 - [2] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Comparing the Legion's damage output to that of a Proteus is a telling indicator Because a Legion should be able to do Proteus damage from outside web/scram range? I agree that the Legion could use a boost but to cry about its damage because a Proteus does more is wrong. The Proteus SHOULD be hands down the best damage dealer because it risks a hell of a lot more than the rest of the T3 ships by having to get right on top of them.
Hemp Invader Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2010.01.10 22:29:00 - [3] Legion is great, you just don't know how to fit it right. Beeing a proteus pilot i can say for sure that every single time i engage something i risk 2.5 billions because i don't know if the guy has backup and if he has or doesn't have a scram to keep me till his buddies come(wh pvp ftw). If you can stay at 20km away in a legion...you shouldn't get the same dps as the proteus. HTFU.
Deva Blackfire Cry Me a River INC	Posted - 2010.01.11 01:15:00 - [4] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 11/01/2010 01:16:20 Lmao. Two guys without a clue above me. What Istvaan said: legion sucks damage wise. And its not "proteus should do more damage" coz it already does. Problem is: proteus deals almost 2x the damage (1,5x with tank) of legion with similiar fit. So does tengu (1,5x easily). And both still have good tank while doing so. Wheras legion has no saving grace. its slow, its DPS is low its EHP is comparable to prot. So yeah - it badly needs +1 turret setup on turret version. Missile version is totally inferior to tengu. Not only you cant put 3-4 BCU (tengu can) but even if you have same number of damage mods tengus accelerated ejection bay not only has 3 bonuses compared to HAM legion 2 but out of those the damage bonuses ALONE (excluding velocity) make it already better than legion. Fix? Boost 5% rof to 7,5% rof. Will have similiar damage to tengu but with various damage types (tho only to HAMs wheras tengu has rof bonus to all launcher types). Plus it will still have less lows for damage mods. Nosf/neut is totally useless. Yeap - lack of range, same issue as with pilgrim. And its 10% efficiency/level compared to 20% on recon = totally useless. It would be MUCH better off with even 10% range. Drones - whats the point when curse can do it better? :X Tho i was still hoping for 5th subsystem somewhere last year but i guess t3 is just a toy for one expansion. Oyea and one more thing (from my issues): slot layout. Proteus gets hislots/3-4mids/lowslots with good ratio. Legion always goes towards max hislots and less lows than prot (but more mids). Its stupid when you look at possible configs of ships and the way t2 counterparts fight. You dont get 2 utility hislots or 5 lows on zealot for a reason. Even 5 lows on sac is considered not enough (it would be better off with 3/6 instead of 4/5 mid/low combo). Yet legion loses on lows. EDIT: and to the guy above. I can put 5bil on my drake too and whine its too weak but it doesnt mean i have to. Most t3 ships can fit in 500mil already (and if you play buy orders they can drop under 400m easily).
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.11 01:50:00 - [5] i was looking on a ham legion as 2nd t3 cruiser next to my ham tengu. but the dps compared to the tengu was crap. Originally by: Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level 7.5% bonus to Heavy, Heavy Assault and Assault missile launcher rate of fire per level 10% bonus to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity per level Originally by: Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy assault missile damage per level 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire per level question that raised while thinking about legion fittings why does the tengu sub has 3 bonuses and the legion sub only 2? why is the launcher ROF bonus reduced to 5% compared to the tengus 7.5%? given the tengu already has a range advantage i would bump both bonuses to 7.5 maybe 10% per level. then the legion would be facemelting when it gets into range, while a tengu could kite the legion (both ham fitted) The ham tengu is lots of fun, so i dont really understand why the ham legion comes gimped out of the factory. also for the laser subsystem it seems a bit low on dmg. you can get a ham tengu to like 730 dps with not much lower range than a heavy pulse zealot, but the dmg difference seems to be too big. and the tank with 2-3 heat sinks isnt any spectacular either.
Deva Blackfire Cry Me a River INC	Posted - 2010.01.11 01:56:00 - [6] You can get more DPS out of heavy missile tengu than out of laser legion tbh. And yeah - thats the issue with missile setup i was talking about. 10% would make it overpowered but 7,5% rof (on par with tengu) would just bring it in line. Especially when most tengu setups can fit 3bcu easily and HAM legion needs to stick to max 2 most of the time.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.11 02:21:00 - [7] Legion's covert reconfig needs a damage bonus instead of a LOL cap bonus.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.01.11 02:23:00 - [8] It's funny how 90% of the posts about the Legion on these forums are about how much it sucks - yet whenever I post a boost thread about it, people come crawling out of the woodwork to tell me that I suck at fitting. Except the problem is, when I apply that same fitting suckage to the Proteus or Tengu, both of which I fly, I come up with ships that are FAR FAR BETTER than the Legion. Look guys. I know you want to prove how badass you are at PVP, and how much I suck at PVP. But all I'm trying to do is slightly boost an anemic ship. If you're so awesome at flying Legions, wouldn't you be happier if they got beefed up?
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.11 03:17:00 - [9] Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 11/01/2010 03:17:27 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 11/01/2010 02:31:26 It's funny how 90% of the posts about the Legion on these forums are about how much it sucks - yet whenever I post a boost thread about it, people come crawling out of the woodwork to tell me that I suck at fitting. Except the problem is, when I apply that same fitting suckage to the Proteus or Tengu, both of which I fly, I come up with ships that are FAR FAR BETTER than the Legion. Look guys. I know you want to prove how badass you are at PVP, and how much I suck at PVP. But all I'm trying to do is slightly boost an anemic ship. If you're so awesome at flying Legions, wouldn't you be happier if they got beefed up? Anyway, here's a list of fixes I'd like to see: Liquid crystal magnifiers - One more turret. The Legion model has an extra un-used turret hardpoint in this configuration, so adding it would be elementary. Alternately, the engineering subsystem that currently gives +1 turret could be boosted to give +2 instead. This thing's meant to be a gunboat, let's let it actually outgun a Harbinger. Energy parasitic thing - 20% per level range bonus to nos/neut. Sensor strength increased to 18 or so. Covert offensive module - Replace turret cap use bonus with dmg bonus. Drone synthesis projector - Drone damage bonus increased to 12.5/15%. It can only field a full wing of mediums to the Proteus' heavies, they might as well get a bit of a buff. Finally, an aesthetic change: The "Baby Avatar" subsystem is totally wasted on the crappy probing sub. I recommend switching its model with the dissolution sequencer, because it makes my Legion look like a stupid snowmobile. I agree with you 100% Istvaan. Every single suggestion you have put forth is spot on. I'd complain about it more but any time I say anything these days everyone bites my head off because they're simply too stupid to think outside their little view of Eve. You're completely right that the Legion is sub-par. I fly all four T3 and have used the Legion the most, simply because it fills a small niche for what I do, but it needs a lot of improvement to compete with the other T3 ships. EDIT: I love the disso nose! Don't change it! >:( -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Tier 5 Battleships
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.01.11 07:09:00 - [10] Originally by: darius mclever why does the tengu sub has 3 bonuses and the legion sub only 2? why is the launcher ROF bonus reduced to 5% compared to the tengus 7.5%? Why does the legion have damage bonus to all damage types?
Hemp Invader Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2010.01.11 07:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Originally by: darius mclever why does the tengu sub has 3 bonuses and the legion sub only 2? why is the launcher ROF bonus reduced to 5% compared to the tengus 7.5%? Why does the legion have damage bonus to all damage types? This.
Miss Xerox	Posted - 2010.01.11 08:59:00 - [12] If Istvaan Shogaatsu wants something it is the responsibility of all pilots in Eve to prevent it happening... regardless if the ship blows or not.
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.11 09:02:00 - [13] I fly all the T3 ships. I also keep backup subsystems for just about any occasion and I can say the Legion is by far the least flexible. I have a pretty nasty sniper hac fit for mine but that's really all it seems to do well. Anything else one of the others does much much better.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2010.01.11 09:05:00 - [14] I don't mind if the Legion does the same amount of damage like the Proteus, but as long as it does 0 outside of web/scram range like the Proteus. That cool?
Deva Blackfire Cry Me a River INC	Posted - 2010.01.11 09:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Originally by: darius mclever why does the tengu sub has 3 bonuses and the legion sub only 2? why is the launcher ROF bonus reduced to 5% compared to the tengus 7.5%? Why does the legion have damage bonus to all damage types? Maybe because it: 1. lacks range 2. is limited to HAMs (wheras tengu bonus works with hams, heavies and assault launchers)? And fun fact mr. wise guy. Tengu outdamages (or just gets similiar damage) with "all damage types" compared to legion even having only kinetic damage bonus.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.01.11 10:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Miss Xerox If Istvaan Shogaatsu wants something it is the responsibility of all pilots in Eve to prevent it happening... regardless if the ship blows or not. Iunno..at least he stirs things up nicely
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2010.01.11 10:28:00 - [17] As a person who trained all legion skills up to lvl5 (Even that Cruiser skill to lvl5 until I realised it was a BAD mistake) I have one thing to say: I agree with this scumbag. "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.11 10:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Originally by: darius mclever why does the tengu sub has 3 bonuses and the legion sub only 2? why is the launcher ROF bonus reduced to 5% compared to the tengus 7.5%? Why does the legion have damage bonus to all damage types? even when the legion can pick all dmg types. for the lols we use 3 CN BCS + t2 launcher on both setups. missile -> legion -> tengu torrent rage -> 598 dps -> 558 dps terror rage -> 598 dps -> 698 dps now: who would fit 3 BCS on an armor tanked ship? missile -> legion 2 bcs -> legion 1 bcs torrent rage -> 540 dps -> 455 dps so now tell me why the tengu has more range, can fit a nice 1600 dps tank (before implants and boosters). so if you get a decent tank on your legion, your dps is very low compared to the tengu.
Azuse Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.01.11 11:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Legion's covert reconfig needs a damage bonus instead of a LOL cap bonus. -------------------------
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones	Posted - 2010.01.11 11:16:00 - [20] Istvaan is on the right path. /signed I'd like to see my legion gain a bit of survivability out of this. So far (test server), they're too easy to kill, because their faults are just way too similar to a Harbingers'. 1) Neut/tracking disrupt(Both are just as deadly) 2) Keep outside of 10km 3) F1-F8. Instant Legion kill.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2010.01.11 11:48:00 - [21] Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr Istvaan is on the right path. /signed I'd like to see my legion gain a bit of survivability out of this. So far (test server), they're too easy to kill, because their faults are just way too similar to a Harbingers'. 1) Neut/tracking disrupt(Both are just as deadly) 2) Keep outside of 10km 3) F1-F8. Instant Legion kill. Wow. Same 3 things kill a Proteus as well. Time to boost the Proteus as well?
Deva Blackfire Cry Me a River INC	Posted - 2010.01.11 12:20:00 - [22] Marlona are you trolling or are you just stupid? And another question: have you ever flown legion?
Hemp Invader Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2010.01.11 13:15:00 - [23] Stop it now...it's just silly. You want to go all in, get a proteus. After all it's a rank 1 skill and i assume you have gunery skills, it should take you like a month for perfect proteus skills. So if you think the proteus is so great, train a month and stop whining already. I'm actually training for a legion now.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.01.11 13:39:00 - [24] I did mate. I'm quite pleased with it. It's versatile and hilariously lethal. The Legion is less so.
0racle Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers	Posted - 2010.01.11 14:14:00 - [25] The Legion is a Cruiser Drake with Lasers.
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2010.01.11 14:27:00 - [26] The problem with legion is, that its matched or outdone in almost every way by the zealot. Same way but in smaller degree the loki is completely outmatched by vagabond and sleipnir. T3 ships bonuses clearly were made on the rush. Some CCP focused more. Most times the bonuses are smaller than the dedicated t2 ships of same bonus. Sometimes not. Example Tengu that has a LARGER shield boost bonus than sleipnir. WTF? Then why the loki has worse web bonus than rapier? Is slower than vaga, barely matches munin as sniper... ? Why the legion barely matches zealot and it outclassed by a pilgrim? Seems a lot of DOUBLE standard on how the T3 ships should compare to the t2 ones. Btw having Bellum exageratum to agree with this request basically makes it moot and autommatically hated and disagrred by 9 in 10 forum members and very likely CCP.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2010.01.11 15:25:00 - [27] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Marlona are you trolling or are you just stupid? And another question: have you ever flown legion? I own 3 Proteus, 1 Tengu, 1 Loki and 2 Legions. Not all on the same character of course but I have and use all 4 T3 Cruisers. Thanks for asking. Personally I don't like how the Legion has this split weapon HAM/Lazor garbage. Should the subsystems of the Legion be looked at? Sure. Should the Legion get another turret slot? Maybe. Should the Legion be as affective as the Proteus but not risk as much by safely being out of web/scram range? **** NO!
Deva Blackfire Cry Me a River INC	Posted - 2010.01.11 15:27:00 - [28] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 11/01/2010 15:36:26 Originally by: Seishi Maru Btw having Bellum exageratum to agree with this request basically makes it moot and autommatically hated and disagrred by 9 in 10 forum members and very likely CCP. Funnily enough when i saw him post i already thought "o crap so no chance for legion fix in next 15 years" :D And rest of the post? CCP wanted to make t3 jack of all trades masters of none. Thats why you get only half-assed bonuses as compared to full ones from recons. But then they went all over the board in other place and made full-blown tank bonuses (be it rep amount, resists or armor/shield amount) yet put damage bonuses at random. Plus if you really want to make some setups you soon find out that supposed 4x4x4x4x4 possible subsystem setups end up being 3-5 that work and rest being bad or hilariously bad. Also when you look at the larger picture you can see that CCP had no clue what way to go with each t3 ship. Proteus went for minimalistic HIslots (just to fit guns), minimalistic mids (most setups go with 3) and max lows. Setups like those were typical amarr domain (except khanids) where gallente usually had a bit more hislots (4-5 dependant if a ship was gun or drone boat). Amarr? max hislots (even if it means utility ones), 4+ mids, mediciore lows which pretty much sucks for a ship that uses lowslots both for tank and damage mods. And there we have caldari with tengu which sometimes has more mids+lows combined than legion (my last pvp setup goes with 6/5 mids/lows wheras most legion pvp setups end up being 4/6). I dunno about loki, never flown it and not rly keen on trying it out. Also: its annoying that if you want to go for max amount of turrents/launchers you have only one way of fitting ship. For example tengu needs to go accelerated ejection bay+capacitor something (forgot which one ;p), legion needs to go liquid (or assault) + power grid subsystem. Why cant i chose DPS setup that doesnt give me oodles of grid on legion. And vice-versa why cant i chose other engineering system than capacitor one if i want 6 launchers? This is a reason why the lego t3 fails to some degree: supposedly you can mix and match but then you see that most parts wont fit in the end. Quote: Personally I don't like how the Legion has this split weapon HAM/Lazor garbage. Should the subsystems of the Legion be looked at? Sure. Should the Legion get another turret slot? Maybe. Should the Legion be as affective as the Proteus but not risk as much by safely being out of web/scram range? ** NO! Then you totally missed what was the point in this thread. Guess as soon as you see legion-proteus comparison you ented some poasting rage mode. Hint: there is no other way to compare ships which have all other stats similiar except by their damage values. And like posted before: legion damage is . Its so ** that heavy missile tengu outdamages pulse laser legion. EDIT: actually even FUNNIER fact. Railgun (!!) proteus almost outdamages heavy pulse legion. Hybrid armature + 2x magstab + 5x hammer = 531dps. 6 turret legion + 2x sink = 550dps. Range on legion is 11+6. Range on proteus 18+23. Nerf proteus tbh.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.01.11 15:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: Deva Blackfire Marlona are you trolling or are you just stupid? And another question: have you ever flown legion? I own 3 Proteus, 1 Tengu, 1 Loki and 2 Legions. Not all on the same character of course but I have and use all 4 T3 Cruisers. Thanks for asking. Personally I don't like how the Legion has this split weapon HAM/Lazor garbage. Should the subsystems of the Legion be looked at? Sure. Should the Legion get another turret slot? Maybe. Should the Legion be as affective as the Proteus but not risk as much by safely being out of web/scram range? **** NO! We're not asking it to, dude. Adding a 7th turret wouldn't bring it anywhere near the DPS of a Proteus - it'd merely level it off at around 800 max with AN MF pulses, and much less for scorch. Thing is, the Legion generally lacks lowslots to cram with heatsinks.
Letifer Deus Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2010.01.11 15:42:00 - [30] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 11/01/2010 15:47:30 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Adding a 7th turret wouldn't bring it anywhere near the DPS of a Proteus it'd merely level it off at around 800 max with AN MF pulses quoting for lulz. Quote: Thing is, the Legion generally lacks lowslots to cram with heatsinks. So have dissolution seq giv +1 low instead of +1 mid, like it should. This alone would improve the legion significantly and TBH I don't get why the most lowslot heavy race in the game is the one race that disso seq gives an extra mid instead of a low. I guess they wanted to "mix it up". ALL of the T3 have subs that are poorly balanced/designed. The legion just happens to not have any combinations that shine and so this is much more glaring. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"

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