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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.17 21:25:00 -
[1]
Citizens of Eve!!! I present to you, my proposal for a T3 industrial cruiser. These ideas are a compilation of features from various other proposals, players, and the current T3 subsystems.
Industrial Subsystems:
- Ore Yield û 25% bonus to mining laser yield and +5,000m3 ore hold per level (5 turrets)
- Harvesters Efficiency Optimizer û 10% decreased duration of gas harvesters and +5,000 m3 gas chamber per level (5 turrets)
- Corporate Sharing û 10% increase to mining drone yield and +5,000m3 corporate hangar per level (no turrets; 50m3, 25mbit )
- Covert Ops Reconfiguration û 20% bonus to mining laser yield and 10% increased cargo capacity per level; 100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use (3 turrets)
Defensive Subsystems:
- Adaptive Shielding û 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level
- Amplification Node û 10% bonus to booster effectiveness per level
- Industrial Processor û 5% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level; 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules
- Signature Optimizer û 5% reduction in signature radius per level
Engineering Subsystems:
- Augmented Capacitor Reservoir û 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level
- Capacitor Regeneration Matrix û 5% reduction in capacitor recharge rate per level
- Power Core Multiplier û 5% bonus to power output per level
- Harvester Capacitor Optimization û 5% reduced capacitor usage of Mining Lasers and Gas Harvesters per level
Electronic Subsystems:
- Harvester CPU Efficiency Gate û 5% reduction in CPU penalties of mining upgrade modules per level
- Obfuscation Manifold û 20% bonus to ECM target jammer strength per level
- Emergent Locus Analyzer û 10% increase to scan strength of probes per level and 20% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams per level; -99% reduced CPU need for Scan Probe Launchers
- Dissolution Sequencer û15% bonus to ship sensor strength per level
Propulsion Subsystems:
- Interdiction Nullifier û 3% increased agility per level; Immunity to non-targeted interdiction
- Intercalated Nanofibers û 5% increased agility per level
- Warp Core Optimizer û +1 warp core strength per level
- Chassis Optimization û 5% bonus to max velocity per level
_____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.17 21:26:00 -
[2]
Some key points to take away:
All numbers are rough figures just to give an idea of the possible bonuses. The mining bonuses have been fleshed out to some degree to make them competitive but not on par with that of a hulk. All configurations that emulate a role that has a specialized ship for the role will be inferior to their specialized cousins, though may have some unique features. For instance, the Industrial Command Processor gives a 5% bonus to effectiveness per level but can only fit 1 link without needing command processers to allow for more gang links.
Some potential unique features:
- covert ops miner (between retriever and covetor mining capabilities)
cruiser sized refitting service
- ECM defense (strength equivalent to that of kitsune with current bonus)
- interdiction nullification
- immunity to probing (theoretically with the signature radius reduction subsystem + sensor strength bonus subsystem, the ship would need two ECCM modules to become immune, variable on base sensor strength and signature radius)
- bonused gas harvester
Numbers for max skilled mining setups:
- Osprey/T3 covert ops = 564m3/min (3x Miner II)
- Retriever = 754m3/min (2x T2 strips and T2 crystals)
- T3 miner = 1057m3/min (5x Miner II)
- Covetor = 1131m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)
- Hulk = 1240m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)
In closing: I think these subsystems will allow for a unique and versatile ship. Furthermore, should T3 one day be able to change subsystems at POSs, the T3 industrial will truly come into its own in terms of versatility and adaptability. In addition to potentially being an industrialistÆs wet dream, this ship will also provide yet another juicy target for pirates abound.
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-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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Layla
Redcoats
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Posted - 2010.01.17 21:50:00 -
[3]
Excellent idea. Well thought out. I hope CCP will implement this soon.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2010.01.17 22:03:00 -
[4]
Signed --
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Lyfeminer
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.01.17 22:21:00 -
[5]
I like this idea, I'm excited for it, when do we start building? _______
I got a rock... |
Archeas
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Posted - 2010.01.17 22:43:00 -
[6]
I actually like this setup, even with the covert ops since you've effectively made it possible while not over powered since it doesn't receive as much bonuses as the "Ore Yield" setup. It also doesn't have as much cargo space, so trips would have to be made. And still comes under the Hulk, which makes sense since the Hulk was made for mining, and this is not. Though it is possible to mine and give yourself bonuses at the same time, it's still somewhat of a decent setup. I assume the "corporate sharing" would meant to be used as a booster/hauler? Perhaps that subsystem could increase the corporate hanger by 10,000 m3 per level, and the cargo hold by 8% per level - Role bonus: -10% agility (since the sub system would add a certain mass to the cruiser. I think that would bring that particular sub system up to par with what people may use it for.
I like this idea because it fits into what we already have while not being overpowered, just versatile.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.17 22:51:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Archeas I actually like this setup, even with the covert ops since you've effectively made it possible while not over powered since it doesn't receive as much bonuses as the "Ore Yield" setup. It also doesn't have as much cargo space, so trips would have to be made. And still comes under the Hulk, which makes sense since the Hulk was made for mining, and this is not. Though it is possible to mine and give yourself bonuses at the same time, it's still somewhat of a decent setup. I assume the "corporate sharing" would meant to be used as a booster/hauler? Perhaps that subsystem could increase the corporate hanger by 10,000 m3 per level, and the cargo hold by 8% per level - Role bonus: -10% agility (since the sub system would add a certain mass to the cruiser. I think that would bring that particular sub system up to par with what people may use it for.
I like this idea because it fits into what we already have while not being overpowered, just versatile.
I tried to make most/all of the subsystems bonused with moderation. At one point I actually had the ore yield subsystem bonuses for 20km3 ore bay per level.
Reason corporate hangar isn't 10km3 per level is because the orca has a 40k m3 corporate hangar and I didn't want to overshadow that.
I did not include modifiers to things like slots/mass/agility/etc to each subsystem because frankly that would be a ton of work and quite ridiculous .
A few questions I have for readers: I personally do not like the warp core optimizer subsystem; anyone have something that could replace it? Same goes for the engineering subsystems, I feel like 3 out of 4 subsystems affecting capacitor is kind of meh and boring. Any ideas?
Thanks for the replies so far guys!
_____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.18 03:23:00 -
[8]
Edited by: WarlockX on 18/01/2010 03:23:50 Interesting, except they sound more like a t3 Hauler then t3 cruisers since they are going to be bigger then battleships with those huge bays.
You also forgot to add low slots, mid slots. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
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Killljoy
Gallente Gatehoppers
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Posted - 2010.01.18 06:21:00 -
[9]
Nice idea but replace the corporate sharing ones drone stuff with something to do with mercoxic.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.18 06:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: WarlockX Edited by: WarlockX on 18/01/2010 03:23:50 Interesting, except they sound more like a t3 Hauler then t3 cruisers since they are going to be bigger then battleships with those huge bays.
You also forgot to add low slots, mid slots.
Slot modifiers, are as I stated, a bit much for me to balance out on my own.
As for Tech 3 haulers...they will be big but not too big.
I imagine base cargohold would be no more than 600m3. If you go with the corporate sharing and lets say 5 low slots with 5x T2 cargoholds and 3x T2 cargo rigs you will get somethingl ike another 3500m3. Add this to 25k m3 corporate hangar (lvl 5 industrial subsystems) and you get about 28k m3. a nice hauling amount but nothing too extraordinary. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.18 06:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Killljoy Nice idea but replace the corporate sharing ones drone stuff with something to do with mercoxic.
I was intending for the 2 mining bonuses ones to affect deep core miners as well.
If that seems dumb/not practical I could see a 5th subsystem. I kind of like the corporate hangar subsystem.
I basically imagine it that you could take one of these along with other T3 ships for sleeper ops. It would be agile and have some nice advantages (agile, space for spare mods/subsystems) and if T3 are one day allowed to swap subsystems at a corporate hangar, would allow for some great adaptability on the fly. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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chrisreeves
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.01.18 11:20:00 -
[12]
To be honest, the first time I read about T3 Cruisers I was suprised (and disapointed if I recall) that the range of subsystems did not have any with industrial bonuses. I thought it was odd for so many other features to be represented, yet the industrial side ignored completly.
So, I agree with you in principal, though I think that perhaps you are suggesting too many changes at the moment. I'd personally go for one extra subsystem of each basic type, to go on the existing T3 Cruiser hull, expanding the choices available at the moment.
I also like the idea of T3 Frigates, But that's a different topic -----------------
Originally by: kieron The Ibis was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Dark Drifter
Amarr Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.18 19:06:00 -
[13]
good idear but no to the hold size increases maby 10% to max hold sixe per level, and max miner hard points should be no more than 3,
to our departed friend EDD "april 09" fly true man |
XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.18 19:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dark Drifter and max miner hard points should be no more than 3,
can you give a reason for this? If you look at my second post I show that even with 5x Miner II on the subsystem with the 25% bonus to yield per level, it is still out mined by a covetor/hulk. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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Newtonius Rex
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.19 15:32:00 -
[15]
In general I like this idea, a lot!
I have been toying with this idea for a while, but never got anywhere near the detail the OP has :)
T3 ships can be configured to very specific roles and the T3 Indy should be the same, I always thought in lines of the following: 1) Mining Gas or Ore 2) Boosting 3) Hauling 4) Salvage/Hacking/Code-breaking
With this in mind, the only change that jumps out is the mining bonus on the cov ops subsystem. I would change this to a bonus to code breakers and analysers (possibly. - Live to Fly - Fly to Live -
Power is Nothing Without Control |
XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.19 21:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Newtonius Rex In general I like this idea, a lot!
I have been toying with this idea for a while, but never got anywhere near the detail the OP has :)
T3 ships can be configured to very specific roles and the T3 Indy should be the same, I always thought in lines of the following: 1) Mining Gas or Ore 2) Boosting 3) Hauling 4) Salvage/Hacking/Code-breaking
With this in mind, the only change that jumps out is the mining bonus on the cov ops subsystem. I would change this to a bonus to code breakers and analysers (possibly.
Thanks for the support
About the covert ops subsystem: the reason I made this for mining is because mining barges tend to have difficulty getting into areas with good ore due to limited survivability. The cloak was to give the ship a chance to get to the good stuff, while sacrificing efficiency in mining. Now granted, with the bonuses I gave it, you could simply use a cheap T1 osprey to do the job. Perhaps this subsystem should be given the bonus of its ore counterpart and the ore one should be bumped up to be between covetor and hulk? Thoughts? Balanced? Overpowered?
More related to your note about salvage/hacking/codebreaking: In all honesty "most" of those sites can be done in smaller craft/current T3 rather easily, they just lack the bonuses. I personally would like to see a line of SOE ships that specializes in this, but perhaps I can come up with another subsystem for the T3 industrial that caters to these professions. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2010.01.19 21:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: chrisreeves To be honest, the first time I read about T3 Cruisers I was suprised (and disapointed if I recall) that the range of subsystems did not have any with industrial bonuses. I thought it was odd for so many other features to be represented, yet the industrial side ignored completly.
Ahm.. welcome to EVE?
Industrial capabilities have always been the red headed step child in EVE. Look at the number (and variation) of industrial ships to combat. They are not even trying to think of new roles to fill.... the last ship we got was the Ocra and even that was 'let us take all the ideas for industrial ships, and put them into one!' which is something they would never have done for a combat ship.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.19 21:45:00 -
[18]
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 19/01/2010 21:47:11 Ore Yield subsystem has had its bonus modified from 25% to 30%. This places its yield slightly above the covetor (a Tech 1 ship) but below the hulk.
The covert ops subsystem has had is bonus modified from 20% to 40%. This places its yield above that of a retriever, but below a covetor.
Corporate sharing has had its bonus reduced from 5,000m3 per level to 2,500m3 per level. This is to prevent it from being used primarily for hauling: its main purpose is resupplying fleet members and providing a place to refit. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.20 21:10:00 -
[19]
Up to the top for more discussion/support/nonsupport? _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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Santiak
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Posted - 2010.01.22 03:34:00 -
[20]
Excellent ideas, my good man.
Just a slight sidenote, are you suggesting an entirely 5th strategic cruiser? Or are you proposing adding more subsystems to the current ones?
One could more or less make the Industrial Subsystems replace Offensive subsystems if fitted. And add the 3 unique subsystems you suggest from the other catagories to the current pool - perhaps adding a targeting penalty to the Warp Core Optimizer to deter people from making nigh uncatchable, yet viable, PvP setups.
But it's just a thought :)
Again, good idea - hope it gets noticed. |
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.22 04:03:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Santiak Excellent ideas, my good man.
Just a slight sidenote, are you suggesting an entirely 5th strategic cruiser? Or are you proposing adding more subsystems to the current ones?
One could more or less make the Industrial Subsystems replace Offensive subsystems if fitted. And add the 3 unique subsystems you suggest from the other catagories to the current pool - perhaps adding a targeting penalty to the Warp Core Optimizer to deter people from making nigh uncatchable, yet viable, PvP setups.
But it's just a thought :)
Again, good idea - hope it gets noticed.
I was suggesting simply a new ship. However, adding these as new subsystems would be interesting, though I think might complicate things a bit.
Thanks for the support |
Jish Ness
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Posted - 2010.01.22 04:41:00 -
[22]
I'm lovin it. |
Shaedyn
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Posted - 2010.01.22 06:06:00 -
[23]
Mmmhmmhmm. I like it. Thought I think it should just the T3 industrial rather than a cruiser :P |
justin666
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Posted - 2010.01.22 13:15:00 -
[24]
i love how the carebears just tryed to justify a minning ship to have a convert ops cloak lol it would mean 0 risk minning so good luck with ccp going with that guys..... |
XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.22 14:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: justin666 i love how the carebears just tryed to justify a minning ship to have a convert ops cloak lol it would mean 0 risk minning so good luck with ccp going with that guys.....
0 risk huh? not really, but it definitely helps access hard to get to roids
I was thinking though that I don't like the idea that the miner could simply stay at range from all roids around them and when someone warps in, cloak...so I was thinking...
How about an activation delay? I.e. 30 second delay to activating cloaking device after miners have deactivated.
PS: if you are at all competent as a pvper you should love this ship. It means more carebears going to risky areas. Most carebears can't survive outside of high sec for crap and will die horribly. Just look at the number of PVE T3 ships that are destroyed all the time. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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Aarin Wrath
Caldari Dominion Strategic
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Posted - 2010.01.22 15:00:00 -
[26]
Wow I like this idea too. Nice work.
/signed
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.22 16:45:00 -
[27]
More edits
Added a 30 second activation delay to cloaking after deactivating miner(s). This is to prevent miners from too easy of getaways. The covert ops cloak is designed to help enable travel through and into hostile areas, not to allow immunity.
Comments? Suggestions?
Thanks for the support so far. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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RalShae Marques
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Posted - 2010.01.22 18:55:00 -
[28]
Edited by: RalShae Marques on 22/01/2010 18:56:27 I cannot endorse such a ship.
While I agree there is a need to make low-sec mining more accessible, A ship as described is a bit overkill.
Instead, I propose a simple piece of ship equipment.
I propose a "Probe counter-measure" (I'm terrible with names)
This device would consume a high-slot AND turret. I imagine a AWACS-like dome as the graphic. While on-line, it would mask all electromagnic signatures of your ship from probes. But the ship would still be visible, and targetable, from any nearby ship. It would have similar power/cpu demands as a mining laser. It would need to be active (like a laser or weapon) to be affective. While on-line (wether active or not), the ship could NOT jettison cargo.
This would allow a ship to move into a asteroid belt and conduct ninja mining. But would be invisible to all the PvP probe-and-ransom players out there. They could still conduct such operations, but would have to manually visit the belts. They'd just have to work a little harder.
You'd still have to hazard the potential gate/station campers. Still have to worry about cloaked ships camping out in the belts.
No new ship would need to created. No counter-balance designed. You want to put it on a Hulk and give it a try.. have at it.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.22 21:04:00 -
[29]
Originally by: RalShae Marques Edited by: RalShae Marques on 22/01/2010 18:56:27 I cannot endorse such a ship.
While I agree there is a need to make low-sec mining more accessible, A ship as described is a bit overkill.
Instead, I propose a simple piece of ship equipment.
I propose a "Probe counter-measure" (I'm terrible with names)
This device would consume a high-slot AND turret. I imagine a AWACS-like dome as the graphic. While on-line, it would mask all electromagnic signatures of your ship from probes. But the ship would still be visible, and targetable, from any nearby ship. It would have similar power/cpu demands as a mining laser. It would need to be active (like a laser or weapon) to be affective. While on-line (wether active or not), the ship could NOT jettison cargo.
This would allow a ship to move into a asteroid belt and conduct ninja mining. But would be invisible to all the PvP probe-and-ransom players out there. They could still conduct such operations, but would have to manually visit the belts. They'd just have to work a little harder.
You'd still have to hazard the potential gate/station campers. Still have to worry about cloaked ships camping out in the belts.
No new ship would need to created. No counter-balance designed. You want to put it on a Hulk and give it a try.. have at it.
I appreciate your contribution to the thread but adding an entirely different module proposal to a thread that sorta has a similar purpose...
On topic, the proposed ship is definitely intricate and complex; overkill as you put it. That's kind of the point. As it is now, there are haulers, mining barges, exhumers, blockade runners and transports. Oh and the orca/rorqual. Less than 10 classes of ships for the industrialists. This ship is designed to give industrialists something more to play with, something to toy around with and have some new, unique features.
I understand your sentiment but your [negative] point is sort of my [positive] point for this ship. Complexity is good; combat characters have access to a wide range of abilities and ship, why can't industrialists?
PS. I suggest making a separate proposal for your module idea. While I do not particularly agree with how you introduced it, you may find you get some support. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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RalShae Marques
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Posted - 2010.01.22 21:28:00 -
[30]
Originally by: XXSketchxx
I understand your sentiment but your [negative] point is sort of my [positive] point for this ship. Complexity is good; combat characters have access to a wide range of abilities and ship, why can't industrialists?
PS. I suggest making a separate proposal for your module idea. While I do not particularly agree with how you introduced it, you may find you get some support.
As I read your proposal.. I was trying to understand what you were trying to accomplish.. As I understand it, you want to: 1. Travel to the belt unseen. 2. Mine quietly unless somebody happens to warp into the belt.
The first can be accomplished by scouting the route to the belt before hand with an already existing cloaked ship. (you'd have to train the cloaking skills either way) The second can be accomplished by giving the ship immunity from probes. If the ship can't be probed, then the only way it'll be found out would be if somebody actually visited the belt.
I do apologize for sounding confrontational, but I was raised with the belief "if you disagree with something, you better have an alternative."
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