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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
gwabakk
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Posted - 2010.02.19 19:45:00 -
[1]
Eve online is a great MMO game because it allows the players freedom of choice of what careers they want to explore. The game had a very fine balance indeed between the interests of, say, the casual miner and the hardcore combat pilots. Each and everyone was allowed its fair amount of time and space in the game to persue whatever they choose to do.
This has changed with the event or wardeccing.
Wardeccing, whatever the fair intentions where when introduced, has now become a means to score easy kills and/or easy money in high-sec at the cost of the peacefull and innocent. A combat corp can start a war at very little cost against a miner corp, which of course is not equipped to defend itself. Some people argue that miner/manufacturing corp should prepare to defend themselves but you cannot possibly expect that players that have devoted all their time and resources to mining/manufacturing to be a match to a bunch of players who have devoted all their time and resources to combat.
Furthermore, and at least as important, those miner did not come to eve to do combat, they chose a different path, because that is what they wanted, and that is what eve promised to be a valid paht when they started out. Now, with wardeccing, they are forced into a path they did not choose, and they do not whish to follow.
High-sec isn't called high-sec for nothing, but what wardeccing has effectively done is making piracy legal in high-sec. My corp, less than a month old, has already been wardecced three times, every time without a proper reason. Wardeccing has given combat corps that do not want/dare to engage their equals the perfect to tool to just attack the defenseless instead, getting easy kills perfectly legal, and all that in high-sec. That can hardly have been the intention of the designers of this game feature. Wardeccing is disabling the free choice of career paths in eve (freedom that the game was designed for), and forcing miners to quit player corps and join NPC corps instead (which eve was not designed for).
I do not propose to get rid of wardeccing, but restore the high-sec balance. When a wardec is mutual by both corps, no problem, go ahaed and fight it out. And low-sec being low-sec you should always expect being attacked. But when the wardec is not mutual, high-sec should still remain a save place, and any encounters should be concorded by the normal rules.
I know this will also disable to opportunity to start wars in high-sec even if there is a valid reason, but then again, it would also be ridicolous if you could just give the local police (Concord) some money and then can go beat them neighbours up without consequense whatsoever. High-sec is high-sec and should be properly guarded.
Bottom line: wardeccing, whatever its fair intentions were, has now become an abuse at the cost of those who justifiably have choosen a non-combat career in eve. And that abuse will have to stop. Engaging others in high-sec should always be concorded, even when the corps are at war (unless the wardec is mutual)
Regards.
Gwabakk
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Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.02.19 20:07:00 -
[2]
No.
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.02.19 20:08:00 -
[3]
I cannot support this motion as in eve PvP is not achoise in this case, you are getting attacked, and you need to defend yourself. so no.
Quote: High-sec isn't called high-sec for nothing, but what wardeccing has effectively done is making piracy legal in high-sec. My corp, less than a month old, has already been wardecced three times,
I can see where you are coming from, and that might be an issue indeed, i would not mind something like increasing wardec fees a little.
Quote: . But when the wardec is not mutual, high-sec should still remain a save place
So what happens if some bastard smacktalks in local where we live eevry day, and keeps bumping our miners? Do i need to wait for him to mutualy declare war on me to teach him manners? that does not exactly work.
I agree that high-sec war-decs do need to be looked at. They must be a more serious decision then they are not, and have more consequences then someone having to stay docked up for a while untill the others get bored. Station games, nutral Rr alts, and other **** like that makes them lame. It's used for griefing 80% of the time, where 19 percent is where the attacker fails, and 1% when it is actually a proper fight. So, yes, it might need to be looked at, but not this way. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.StevieSG |
Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2010.02.19 20:09:00 -
[4]
pvp oriented game.
It is already easy enough to avoid war decs.
No.
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Red Raider
Caldari Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's
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Posted - 2010.02.19 20:20:00 -
[5]
Welcome to EVE. I see that you have located the forums! Congratulations!
Now that you are here you can take some of the money that you made and use it to pay people to kill other people for you! Exciting isn't it!
For more information on how to defend yourself without a gun go to:
Crime and Punishment Warn others of the latest scam, hire a mercenary to seek revenge or brag about your kills. This is the place to discuss the criminal elements of EVE.
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gwabakk
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Posted - 2010.02.19 20:28:00 -
[6]
So tell me, how can a corp avoid being wardecced? Only way is to leave corp and become a NPC corp member. A player corp cannot prevent being wardecced.
And as for the PVP argument: PVP in eve is not just about shooting each other. Eve is much more than that. Eve is not a combat game, combat is just one of the many game features. My point is that wardeccing is becoming a blockade of all those other features
Gwabakk
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Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.02.19 20:33:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Xtover on 19/02/2010 20:34:13
Originally by: gwabakk So tell me, how can a corp avoid being wardecced? Only way is to leave corp and become a NPC corp member. A player corp cannot prevent being wardecced.
And as for the PVP argument: PVP in eve is not just about shooting each other. Eve is much more than that. Eve is not a combat game, combat is just one of the many game features. My point is that wardeccing is becoming a blockade of all those other features
Gwabakk
you do understand that EVE stands for everyone vs everyone, right?
never being truely safe is what eve is. it's why it stands alone.
nonconsentual pvp combat is something that CCP holds dear.
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Sdlonyer
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Posted - 2010.02.19 20:54:00 -
[8]
Quote: Wardeccing, whatever the fair intentions where when introduced, has now become a means to score easy kills and/or easy money in high-sec at the cost of the peacefull and innocent.
Stop being peaceful Be peaceful elsewhere Hire someone to not be peaceful in your place
If none of the above,
Join NPC corp to be wardec proof.
/topic
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Mr Ravenblade
University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.02.19 21:06:00 -
[9]
I cant support this petition on the grounds that it sounds like somebody who is still learning about what the game is about.
I suggest you look into hiring a mercenary corp if you have no other deference. - MRB |
Comodore John
Gallente KILRATHI INDUSTRIES Sang Do Oligarchic Democracy
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Posted - 2010.02.19 21:21:00 -
[10]
Join an alliance maybe?
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.02.19 21:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: gwabakk And as for the PVP argument: PVP in eve is not just about shooting each other. Eve is much more than that. Eve is not a combat game, combat is just one of the many game features. My point is that wardeccing is becoming a blockade of all those other features
Gwabakk
Wrong. You can certainly do everything in EVE with a war active as you can without a war active. You may have to be a minuscule bit more careful but having a war against you does not force you to stop what you are doing, dock up and log.
Starting wars with no reason or purpose against new players is a problem, but not to be solved by making wars useless and making high sec logistics near invulnerable.
Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose. |
Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.02.19 22:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Xtover No.
Best answer.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.02.19 23:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jerid Verges
Originally by: Xtover No.
Best answer.
I will elaborate.
No , learn how to defend yourself.
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Malen Nenokal
The Nightshift
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Posted - 2010.02.19 23:56:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Malen Nenokal on 19/02/2010 23:56:00 You're an industrial corp. Hire a mercenary corporation to counter wardec the attackers. You may not have PvP prowess, but as industrialists, you can fight with your ISK.
welcome to Eve btw.
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Red Raider
Caldari Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: gwabakk So tell me, how can a corp avoid being wardecced? Only way is to leave corp and become a NPC corp member. A player corp cannot prevent being wardecced.
And as for the PVP argument: PVP in eve is not just about shooting each other. Eve is much more than that. Eve is not a combat game, combat is just one of the many game features. My point is that wardeccing is becoming a blockade of all those other features
Gwabakk
There is no way to avoid being war decced 100% of the time. However, there are deterrents. First, you can hire mercs to counter dec your enemy. Second, you can join an alliance for security. Third, you can train up to use combat ships and fight back. Fourth, you can take a vacation from EVE and let the war dec reward the enemy in zero targets, zero fun, and some wasted ISK(if you know what you are doing on the market this is actually not that bad).
How you fight a war is up to you but you fight one everyday as soon as you log in.
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Amberlyn Stardreamer
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Posted - 2010.02.20 02:06:00 -
[16]
I sympathize with the OP because I believe that there is something wrong when cowardly griefers -- and they are most definitely cowards or they'd be attacking someone of equal skill rather than shooting fish in a barrel by wardeccing newbs and industrialists -- can force people to not play the game that they are paying REAL WORLD MONEY for.
I would like to have the ability to take revenge by being able to file some kind of mining-dec that would allow industrial players to declare a state of operations where members of the decced corp could undock only in mining barges, exhumers, industrials, freighters, ... so as to deny them their preferred activities -- which they pay REAL WORLD MONEY to engage in -- in the same way that a wardec denies industrialists the ability to engage in our preferred activities.
As the OP gains more experience he/she will clearly see that the people who post most vehemently about how EVE is a PVP game are the ones who, rather than engaging in actual combat with equals, like to shoot fish in a barrel.
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Solorman
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Posted - 2010.02.20 02:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Malen Nenokal Edited by: Malen Nenokal on 19/02/2010 23:56:00 You're an industrial corp. Hire a mercenary corporation to counter wardec the attackers. You may not have PvP prowess, but as industrialists, you can fight with your ISK.
Corp is less then 3 weeks old and you expect people to have tons of money to throw away. Also, as an mining corp if they cant mine they cant get money. So thats a great idea of paying merc corps.
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Zarofdium
Caldari Imperial Syndicate Forces Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.02.20 04:54:00 -
[18]
I can only see two reasons that would keep you from joining a 0.0 or lowsec alliance or corp (which would discourage people- although not prevent them from war'decing you).
1.) You only want to mine.
2.) You want to stay in safe- high sec.
Solution:
Join an NPC Corp. The only downside- You cannot have your own POS. But you can mine, without any more tax than if you were in your own corporation.
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Kindra Blades
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.02.20 04:57:00 -
[19]
War deccing is part of eve. Would be pointless to war dec someone in 0.0 or low sec. Eve is a cut throat style game. Paying ISK for concord to look the other way is just one of those risks.
If your corp is only 3 weeks old and you get war decced, all you have to do is either surrender and find a corp that can back you (there are way too many corps now anyway), or you can stay docked and bore them to death.
/not supported
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.02.20 05:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: gwabakk So tell me, how can a corp avoid being wardecced? Only way is to leave corp and become a NPC corp member. A player corp cannot prevent being wardecced.
Yes, that's how Eve works. Glad we're on the same page here.
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Irongut
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.02.20 07:41:00 -
[21]
The whole point of a war dec is to allow you to shoot people in high sec. So no. --
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Catrina Denaries
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.02.20 10:09:00 -
[22]
War declarations in EVE are Darwin's Law applied. Got deced? Man up and defend your corporation. If you can't, then you didn't deserve the corp to begin with. ----- The yarr is strong with this one. |
Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.02.20 10:44:00 -
[23]
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Want to test a supercap on SISI but don't have one? |
gwabakk
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Posted - 2010.02.20 12:43:00 -
[24]
Allow me to stress again my basic argument: there are people in eve who prefer to do combat, and there are those who prefer to do other things. Both groups have every and equal rights to play eve the way they like to play it. But their interest conflict sometimes, and a lot of eve game mechanics is about balancing those interests. That is why we have high-sec, low-sec, null-sec, concord et all. Eve has done a great job in that, but wardeccing is now upsetting the fine balance to much in favour of those who want to shoot others.
And that is why the wardeccing mechanics needs changing, to bing back the balance.
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Kruxxas
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Posted - 2010.02.20 14:17:00 -
[25]
mimimimimimi
No!
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343guilty1
Gallente Strategic Insanity
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:14:00 -
[26]
makes war irrelevant, because it doesn't matter in who you attack in low/null sec >_> besides, this is where yet ANOTHER career comes up, Merc corps =) hire one with all the ore you mined ;)
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:24:00 -
[27]
Speaking as a miner/industrialist no.
Either learn how to avoid people who want to shoot you, or learn to shoot back effectively. --Vel
Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats. |
Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:53:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sokratesz Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Best reply so far and from CSM too.
Yeah, keep posting in this thread, I see it going far...
Not really. ------------
+15% to railguns' dmg modifier -reduce Spike optimal bonus to 70% +10% to Caldari railboats PG |
Shivani
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:58:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Shivani on 20/02/2010 16:58:11
Originally by: Sokratesz Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
And you are who?
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343guilty1
Gallente Strategic Insanity
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Posted - 2010.02.20 17:00:00 -
[30]
Originally by: gwabakk Allow me to stress again my basic argument: there are people in eve who prefer to do combat, and there are those who prefer to do other things. Both groups have every and equal rights to play eve the way they like to play it. But their interest conflict sometimes, and a lot of eve game mechanics is about balancing those interests. That is why we have high-sec, low-sec, null-sec, concord et all. Eve has done a great job in that, but wardeccing is now upsetting the fine balance to much in favour of those who want to shoot others.
And that is why the wardeccing mechanics needs changing, to bing back the balance.
I'd like to point out contrary to popular belief, High sec, even with concord, in a 1.0 sec system, is in fact, NOT safe.... simple as that, to prove this point, someone go suicide gank him to show that you don't even need war to be killed in high sec....
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