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Stop wardeccing in high-sec unless wardec is mutual

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fivetide humidyear Gallente Fool Mental Junket	Posted - 2010.02.24 13:28:00 - [91] Edited by: fivetide humidyear on 24/02/2010 13:28:50 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Sokratesz Short answer: No. Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. ... enjoying an iceland trip off of your sub money atm ... Also drake, being csm doesn¦t prevent me from laughing at stupid ideas. ... This is totally why I voted for Sok. And I'll do it next time too. -Liang I'd just like to quote this for it being the same reason Sok got my vote. also, the lack of support in this thread warms the ****les of my (war deccing) heart.
Zonefire	Posted - 2010.02.24 15:08:00 - [92] There are some good ideas here but it seems a few people who do not want this passed are trolling in order to prevent the more mature people from actually seeing the good ideas.
Sir Fourhead Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.02.24 19:58:00 - [93] Supported. There should be no war decs High sec should be just like 0.0 Please pardon the prissy overtones that will be found throughout this letter, but the reservoir from which CCP draws its lickspittles is primarily the masses of revolting enemies of the people.
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.02.24 20:29:00 - [94] Edited by: Bagehi on 24/02/2010 20:29:35 Originally by: Drake Draconis I'm sorry... but I am really getting sick and tired of hearing "Wardecs allow industrialists to attack competitors" as an excuse or an valid argument. That is utter bull** and you know it. Since when has an industrialist corporation ever war-dec'd? Before moving to 0.0, the industrial corp I was in did it often to keep competitors out of the area and to keep belts from being cleaned out before we could get to all the shiny rocks in them. Originally by:** Drake Draconis In case you people forgot... you make nothing in PVP'ing... there is no profit... ergo... 99% of the indies in high sec won't even bother... they just go somewhere else or hire a merc to deal with the problem. Pretty much false. Ganking freighters is HUGE profit. Spend a day or two ratting to get the sec back and gank another. Wardecing an industrial corp who doesn't hide and fights back poorly is also HUGE profit. Not allowing PVP players to wardec empire corps would reduce the ability of small PVP corps to have income, definitely. Originally by: Drake Draconis So stop coming up with excuses and assumptions and start dealing in facts. Fact - War-decs are DOMINATED by greifers who seek to PVP soft targets. Fact - War-decs are DOMINATED by corporations seeking to disrupt logistics in 0.0 It sounds like you take war decs personally. They are almost always profit driven - whether by a competing industrial corp or a PVP corp. Even in 0.0, most wars are over scarce resources (i.e. profit driven). Originally by: Drake Draconis Now maybe I'm just a guy in a cave but I have never heard of an indy corp war-dec'ing an another for indy reasons. Did this on a regular basis when I was in an indy corp so we could control omber mining, later to control a drone plex which was the source of high end minerals for manufacturing. If you are in an indy corp and aren't pushing your weight around a little (if you don't have people who can fight in your corp, then at least by hiring mercenaries to do it for you), you are doing it wrong. Originally by: Drake Draconis POS take down? Doesn't qualify... and most hire a merc to handle that. True for the most part. POSs in high sec usually don't have the guns to be a threat to even a pile of mission runners. Originally by: Drake Draconis 99% of indy corps are always on the receiving end from some pvp corporation or some such. Again, PVP corps have to make money too. Either they are making money off your loot or they are making money on a mercenary contract taken out on you. Originally by: Drake Draconis Its both hilarious and totally stupid to see people tell me and everyone else "oh but it allows ______ to do this to an another corp" Wake up... just come out and say it. Stop lying to yourselves. You'll live longer. And let me emphasize that while I have an issue with the excuse that I just blew away... it is in no way a valid argument for me to say war-decs should be nerfed... or buffed for that matter. Just don't put the blame or reasoning in the equation that wardecs are useful in THAT context. Useful or not... they aren't using it... because there's no point to it. Yeah, you pretty much ended up sounding like a dumb industrialist. No one can differentiate products in Eve, so the only way you control margins is through scarcity... usually created by muscling out competition. PVP wars are cheaper than price wars. Fix Local
Brodit Gallente Dark Harlequin	Posted - 2010.02.24 21:11:00 - [95] I sympathise with the OP, but unfortunately you are starting from false perspective. New Eden is a dangerous place filled with people whose sole aim is to make your wealth/reputation less than thiers. I own a corp that could be considered "industrial" but we've never been dec'd (that'll change after this post ). However there are many things you can do to avoid/dissuade combat. The best is mobility. Working in Hek and dec'd by a corp, mine in amarr space. Will they follow, unlikely, chances are they based in Mini space too. You are industrialists, therefor high Int and Mem, Ewar your enemy out of the game. Train up trade skills, and fly outposts. Make money while they lose it on an impotent dec. This way you turn thier strength (combat) into a weakness, whilst they force you to play to your strengths. So no, don't support the motion.
Red Raider Caldari Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's	Posted - 2010.02.24 21:49:00 - [96] We also need to remember that the "Treaty" mechanic is supposed to be implemented before long so entering into a mutual defense pact may be something that is already on the horizon.
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2010.02.25 03:48:00 - [97] Originally by: Zonefire The original purpose of this thread was to propose some way for new high sec, non-combat focus corps to avoid being griefed by people who have RL problems. But for some reason people keep drfting away from the topic. So does that mean it's OK for those of us who do not have RL problems to grief, I mean war dec, new high sec, non-combat focus corps? ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Zonefire	Posted - 2010.02.25 03:54:00 - [98] Originally by: Traidor Disloyal Originally by: Zonefire The original purpose of this thread was to propose some way for new high sec, non-combat focus corps to avoid being griefed by people who have RL problems. But for some reason people keep drfting away from the topic. So does that mean it's OK for those of us who do not have RL problems to grief, I mean war dec, new high sec, non-combat focus corps? Well by griefing you prove you have RL problems. Instead focus on the good ideas people have with wars being system base.
Dianeces Buttered On The Wrong Side	Posted - 2010.02.25 06:22:00 - [99] Originally by: Zonefire Originally by: Traidor Disloyal Originally by: Zonefire The original purpose of this thread was to propose some way for new high sec, non-combat focus corps to avoid being griefed by people who have RL problems. But for some reason people keep drfting away from the topic. So does that mean it's OK for those of us who do not have RL problems to grief, I mean war dec, new high sec, non-combat focus corps? Well by griefing you prove you have RL problems. Instead focus on the good ideas people have with wars being system base. Well aren't you just the cutest little internet psychologist. You're quite adorable.
Daemonspirit Redhawk Tribal Trust	Posted - 2010.02.25 13:23:00 - [100] Originally by: gwabakk Eve online is a great MMO game because it allows the players freedom of choice of what careers they want to explore. The game had a very fine balance indeed between the interests of, say, the casual miner and the hardcore combat pilots. Each and everyone was allowed its fair amount of time and space in the game to persue whatever they choose to do. Do you know the history of eve? At one point, there were no war-decs at all - that's right, because there was -no- hi-sec. The game had -no- balance between miners and combat pilots at all. Originally by: gwabakk Now, with wardeccing, they are forced into a path they did not choose, and they do not whish to follow. High-sec isn't called high-sec for nothing, Just to reiterate: Its called "hi-sec", not "safe-sec". Originally by: gwabakk My corp, less than a month old, has already been wardecced three times, every time without a proper reason. In your opinion, without proper reason. Originally by: gwabakk Wardeccing has given combat corps that do not want/dare to engage their equals the perfect to tool to just attack the defenseless instead, getting easy kills perfectly legal, and all that in high-sec. That can hardly have been the intention of the designers of this game feature. Actually, I think you would be surprised at what CCP has to say about it... They have stated, on NUMEROUS occasions, that "player interaction, consensual or otherwise, is what Eve is all about..." Originally by: gwabakk Wardeccing is disabling the free choice of career paths in eve (freedom that the game was designed for), and forcing miners to quit player corps and join NPC corps instead (which eve was not designed for). Look, if you SERIOUSLY can't stand the thought of (in game) blowing the **** out of some bandit that desperately WANTS it... Use alts on your accounts to create shell corps, war-dec comes in, drop corp, move to new corp, last guy out of the old corp takes all the corps assets, gives them to new corp owner, VIOLA! No more war. Although, I honestly believe that with only a wee bit of training and practice, you would be surprised at how much fun it can be to blow up a fellow pod pilot. So, since there is already a perfectly fine method to avoiding a war, I do not support your proposal. My apologies. ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö
Cash McGee	Posted - 2010.02.25 13:27:00 - [101] Can't believe I missed this jewel. NO, EVE has never been about having a choice to avoid pvp. However, I did find a solution that would help you avoid wardecs for good. How to avoid PVP in EVE
Asuri Kinnes Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.02.25 14:18:00 - [102] Originally by: Cash McGee Can't believe I missed this jewel. NO, EVE has never been about having a choice to avoid pvp. However, I did find a solution that would help you avoid wardecs for good. How to avoid PVP in EVE Lame meme is lame... I mean.. that's not even a "rick-roll..." Avoiding empire wars, nerfing suicide ganking, wth is going on here...? Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Amberlyn Stardreamer	Posted - 2010.02.26 00:42:00 - [103] Originally by: TeaDaze Originally by: Zonefire The original purpose of this thread was to propose some way for new high sec, non-combat focus corps to avoid being griefed by people who have RL problems. What about those people who use war decs against high sec corps but don't actually have RL problems? Not everyone who wardecs empire corps is a mental basket case, some players actually like to PVP in a PVP game Then go to low-sec or null-sec and fight other people who like to PVP and who might actually beat you. Wardeccing newbs and industrials in high-sec is not PVP, its just a cheap, coward's trick -- shooting fish in a barrel.
Dianeces Buttered On The Wrong Side	Posted - 2010.02.26 00:44:00 - [104] Originally by: Amberlyn Stardreamer Originally by: TeaDaze Originally by: Zonefire The original purpose of this thread was to propose some way for new high sec, non-combat focus corps to avoid being griefed by people who have RL problems. What about those people who use war decs against high sec corps but don't actually have RL problems? Not everyone who wardecs empire corps is a mental basket case, some players actually like to PVP in a PVP game Then go to low-sec or null-sec and fight other people who like to PVP and who might actually beat you. Wardeccing newbs and industrials in high-sec is not PVP, its just a cheap, coward's trick -- shooting fish in a barrel. u mad?~
Amberlyn Stardreamer	Posted - 2010.02.26 00:50:00 - [105] Originally by: De'Veldrin ... I would also agree with the idea of implementing a character level war dec flag that follows a character leaving a war decced corp for a period of 7 days or until the war officially ends, whichever is shorter. I'll support that enthusiastically when I get that "mining dec" I mentioned before. Remember, people pay REAL WORLD MONEY to play this game. It should not be possible for griefers to leave them no options but to pay for a game they cannot actually play.
Dianeces Buttered On The Wrong Side	Posted - 2010.02.26 01:35:00 - [106] Originally by: Amberlyn Stardreamer Originally by: De'Veldrin ... I would also agree with the idea of implementing a character level war dec flag that follows a character leaving a war decced corp for a period of 7 days or until the war officially ends, whichever is shorter. I'll support that enthusiastically when I get that "mining dec" I mentioned before. Remember, people pay REAL WORLD MONEY to play this game. It should not be possible for griefers to leave them no options but to pay for a game they cannot actually play. I didn't realize CCP added a feature to wardecs where people who get wardecced aren't allowed to log in at all. That's a p. chill feature.
Amberlyn Stardreamer	Posted - 2010.02.26 02:19:00 - [107] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Amberlyn Stardreamer Originally by: De'Veldrin ... I would also agree with the idea of implementing a character level war dec flag that follows a character leaving a war decced corp for a period of 7 days or until the war officially ends, whichever is shorter. I'll support that enthusiastically when I get that "mining dec" I mentioned before. Remember, people pay REAL WORLD MONEY to play this game. It should not be possible for griefers to leave them no options but to pay for a game they cannot actually play. I didn't realize CCP added a feature to wardecs where people who get wardecced aren't allowed to log in at all. That's a p. chill feature. Removing the option to leave a wardecced corp is FORCING people who have no interest in combat and who have not trained combat skills to pay to not play. Stuck in station unable to do anything that you are paying real world money to do is the same as not being able to log on at all.
Zonefire	Posted - 2010.02.26 03:01:00 - [108] Exactly, people are paying real money in order to play a game. By allowing corps to grief newer players in high sec, such as station camping, people are paying money to not play the game. Now CCP could give money back to players who cant do anything during a wardec but they won'. So making wars system based would be better. That way would be like fighting over recources but war deccing many corps over one system would be unrealilistic so it would be between just a few corps. Of corse you coud pay more for more systems but each one gets more expensive. This way newer people can get out while people who want to pvp can.
Daemonspirit Redhawk Tribal Trust	Posted - 2010.02.26 05:13:00 - [109] Originally by: Zonefire Exactly, people are paying real money in order to play a game. By allowing corps to grief newer players in high sec, such as station camping, people are paying money to not play the game. Now CCP could give money back to players who cant do anything during a wardec but they won'. So making wars system based would be better. That way would be like fighting over recources but war deccing many corps over one system would be unrealilistic so it would be between just a few corps. Of corse you coud pay more for more systems but each one gets more expensive. This way newer people can get out while people who want to pvp can. Jumpin' Jehosaphat! JUST DROP CORP! You and your buddies make up a new corp, and every day a new dec comes in, drop corp to one of your other holding corps. Hell, disband corps and make new ones... Stop asking for something that already exists in game, and is supported by CCP! jesus... ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö
Zonefire	Posted - 2010.02.26 05:41:00 - [110] Originally by: Daemonspirit Jumpin' Jehosaphat! JUST DROP CORP! You and your buddies make up a new corp, and every day a new dec comes in, drop corp to one of your other holding corps. Hell, disband corps and make new ones... Stop asking for something that already exists in game, and is supported by CCP! jesus... This is an example of people who need to be a little more mature. Instead of just instantly dismissing issues, look at it from the other persons side.
ShahFluffers Gallente Vitharr's Vengeance	Posted - 2010.02.26 09:32:00 - [111] Originally by: Zonefire Originally by: Daemonspirit Jumpin' Jehosaphat! JUST DROP CORP! You and your buddies make up a new corp, and every day a new dec comes in, drop corp to one of your other holding corps. Hell, disband corps and make new ones... Stop asking for something that already exists in game, and is supported by CCP! jesus... This is an example of people who need to be a little more mature. Instead of just instantly dismissing issues, look at it from the other persons side. It's not that he's being immature. It's more along the lines of "Oh crap, not this again. Haven't they got the message already?" What the people here are trying to say is that the mechanics to "avoid" war or "deal with it" are already there. You simply have to learn about and take advantage of it rather than ask that the mechanics be changed. Now... I personally do not support this proposal. The whole reason I like this game is for its PvP element... an element that the CCP Devs have time and time again stated that they strive towards. Is it perfect? Hardly. But there in lies the challenge in making a game that is geared towards forcing "player confrontation" one way or another and making it so that new players are not at a complete disadvantage. If someone declares war on you, rather than ***** and moan you should weigh you options. - Do you move operations to another part of the cluster? (a lot of people, myself included, are lazy and will not pursue targets if they too far away) - Do you jump into t1 frigates and cruisers and lay some hurt on them? (protip: many war decs will end when the aggressing corp's isk efficiency dives... so while you may lose 5 or even 10 t1 fitted t1 cruisers, if focus your fire on their expensive stuff and pop it, you win) - Do you jump corp? (self explanatory) - Do you "hibernate"? (stay in station... play the market... and be as boring as possible; stop talking back to your aggressers... talking gives them more "resolve" with which to keep their hunt going) So it's not that we don't see your point of view. It's more that we've been there, we've clawed our way through, now it's your turn. _______________________ "Just because I look like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.02.26 13:39:00 - [112] Edited by: De''Veldrin on 26/02/2010 13:39:47 Originally by: Amberlyn Stardreamer Removing the option to leave a wardecced corp is FORCING people who have no interest in combat and who have not trained combat skills to pay to not play. Stuck in station unable to do anything that you are paying real world money to do is the same as not being able to log on at all. I was unaware that it stopped you from pausing training on that character and rolling an alt in an NPC corp. Sure it may suck, but you can still play the game. Face it, your "I can't play, so don't let them wardec me" argument is bull****, and everyone here, including you, knows it. --Vel Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats.
Mistress Servelan Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.02.26 14:45:00 - [113] lol
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.	Posted - 2010.02.26 15:54:00 - [114] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 26/02/2010 16:06:16 Edited by: Drake Draconis on 26/02/2010 15:57:31 Bagehi - Thank you so much for proving to us that the art of bull****ting is not lost on PVP'ers. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Whats ridiculous is your bold faced enough to actually argue something that is obviously wrong and false. I've known many many industrialist corporations... and they don't even pull some of the crap you even CLAIMED to do. Only corporations that do that are Greifing PVP'ers. PVP'ers don't like industry and only go so far as to make sure they have enough ISK to do whatever it is they want to do. I know very few who are actually good at both things as it is. What you claimed are very (if at all) rare incidents and only possible when your corporation just happens to have a capable and good enough PVP force... that or you used a second corporation or hired a merc live everyone else. Please... give it up.... we can see right through you. Industrialists don't have time to "gank" freighters... What the heck kind of argument is that? You have any idea how much firepower and effort it takes to gank a freighter? Sure as hell won't be in a war-dec unless the other corproation is really that stupid! (And sad to say I've seen some but even then everyone knows its stupid to drag a freighter out in a war dec! DUH!) We don't have time to war-dec because "someone stole our omber belt". There are hundreds upon hundreds of asteroids out there... they just move on to a different system. Or move out. Honestly... why do people keep this tripe up. War-dec's are not a personal thing... please... grow up... stop using childish reasoning for once. War-decs are broken... but nerfing them or buffing them is a waste of time because it ends up unbalancing the whole system. My "personal" issue is the asshats who come up with stupid arguments. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.02.26 16:08:00 - [115] How did I miss this thread. I particularly love this little gem. Originally by: Zonefire Well by griefing you prove you have RL problems.
gwabakk	Posted - 2010.02.26 22:49:00 - [116] Less than two days after the third wardec in one month ended, we received another wardec... Lessons learned: - Staying docked is not a feasible strategy because it means I will stay docked for more than 80% of the time - Hiring a merc corp is not a feasible strategy because at this rate the corp will be broke very soon - Fighting is not a feasible strategy because it means I will have to fight for more than 80% of my time, and cannot play the game the way I want to - Disbandling the corp and create another one is not a feasible strategy, because than we would have to do that once every week - Wardeccing is effectively making it impossible to run this corp Wardeccing is broken. Fix it or get rid of it Gwabakk
James Tritanius	Posted - 2010.02.26 22:59:00 - [117] Join an alliance.
Dianeces Buttered On The Wrong Side	Posted - 2010.02.26 23:01:00 - [118] Originally by: gwabakk Less than two days after the third wardec in one month ended, we received another wardec... Lessons learned: - Staying docked is not a feasible strategy because it means I will stay docked for more than 80% of the time - Hiring a merc corp is not a feasible strategy because at this rate the corp will be broke very soon - Fighting is not a feasible strategy because it means I will have to fight for more than 80% of my time, and cannot play the game the way I want to - Disbandling the corp and create another one is not a feasible strategy, because than we would have to do that once every week - Wardeccing is effectively making it impossible to run this corp Wardeccing is broken. Fix it or get rid of it Gwabakk You forgot one: -Whining on the forums won't work; nobody cares about you.
ShahFluffers Gallente Vitharr's Vengeance	Posted - 2010.02.26 23:15:00 - [119] Originally by: gwabakk Less than two days after the third wardec in one month ended, we received another wardec... How are you getting these wardecs?????? Send them to me!! But seriously, you're doing something to catch people's ire. You or someone in your corp is probably doing something to draw unnecessary attention (i.e. screaming in local, saying that the people that flipped them are idiots, greifers, and have no life, etc) hence all the war decs. Another protrip: pods instawarp, you can escape station that way. _______________________ "Just because I look like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.02.26 23:19:00 - [120] Edited by: James Lyrus on 26/02/2010 23:23:54 Edited by: James Lyrus on 26/02/2010 23:22:56 As someone who started out EVE somewhat 'highsec' focussed - 5 years ago, I thought abolishing war declarations were a stupid idea, and I still feel that way today. We still do quite a lot of... well, everything really. Industry included. And I think war declarations are very positive, even when they do occasionally make our lives a little less convenient. It's really very simple - there's a lot of mediocre corps in EVE. I mean, the kind that someone joins unsuspectingly, and somehow EVE turns all boring, and they quit. These I call 'failcorps' and they're usually the kind of corp that do a bit of everything, and whine when something isn't ultra convenient for them. The war declaration mechanism filters these corps out, by encouraging the players in them to take the initiative. To sharpen up and fight back. Or to sharpen up and evade the war. Or just accept that they are a failcorp, and go join a corp that isn't pathetic, and find they don't have a problem any more. Originally by: gwabakk Less than two days after the third wardec in one month ended, we received another wardec... Lessons learned: - Staying docked is not a feasible strategy because it means I will stay docked for more than 80% of the time - Hiring a merc corp is not a feasible strategy because at this rate the corp will be broke very soon - Fighting is not a feasible strategy because it means I will have to fight for more than 80% of my time, and cannot play the game the way I want to - Disbandling the corp and create another one is not a feasible strategy, because than we would have to do that once every week - Wardeccing is effectively making it impossible to run this corp Wardeccing is broken. Fix it or get rid of it Gwabakk Case in point. Your best option here is to accept that you haven't got what it takes to run your own corp. There are any number of 'real' corps out there, who would happily accept a member who's a wardec magnet, because ... well, it's a free war. Chances are though, you'd see no sign of a war declaration.

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