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Stop wardeccing in high-sec unless wardec is mutual

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Zonefire	Posted - 2010.02.20 17:14:00 - [31] Edited by: Zonefire on 20/02/2010 17:14:05 Now it just seems that people who don't support this are the people who enjoy war deccing indy corps. The high sec pirate corps are just the ones that fail at low sec/null sec pvp and have to get their anger out on people who can't fight back.
343guilty1 Gallente Strategic Insanity	Posted - 2010.02.20 17:22:00 - [32] Originally by: Zonefire Edited by: Zonefire on 20/02/2010 17:14:05 Now it just seems that people who don't support this are the people who enjoy war deccing indy corps. The high sec pirate corps are just the ones that fail at low sec/null sec pvp and have to get their anger out on people who can't fight back. in most cases, yes, but what about an a-hole corp who keeps can flipping you indy guys in our corp? what then, they just sit there and steal your ores? or what if you just plain out right don't like them cuz they talk smack? OR you got beef with em for a legit reason?
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2010.02.20 17:47:00 - [33] Originally by: Solorman Corp is less then 3 weeks old and you expect people to have tons of money to throw away. Also, as an mining corp if they cant mine they cant get money. So thats a great idea of paying merc corps. Join an established alliance or corp. Or just stay docked for a while. _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.02.20 18:05:00 - [34] Originally by: Shivani Edited by: Shivani on 20/02/2010 16:58:11 Originally by: Sokratesz Short answer: No. Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. And you are who? enjoying an iceland trip off of your sub money atm Want to test a supercap on SISI but don't have one?
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.	Posted - 2010.02.20 18:25:00 - [35] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 20/02/2010 18:27:30 Originally by: Sokratesz Short answer: No. Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Once again we see the maturity and actual age of our CSM at work. Great job. golf claps Now as to the OP. First off let me appluad you for not going emo-rage-rant on your post... at least you where decent enough to be eloquent. Secondly... not going to happen. I've been playing for about 2 years...if not more... and if there's one thing I've learned... war-dec'ing... as stupid and absolutely ridiculous as it is... mechanics wise... is not something that needs to be eliminated from the game. There are some very clear points I've learned from this war-dec'ing system. 1: 80 to 99% of the war-dec's I've encountered are all done for the expressed purpose of greifing. Not all are like that... there are some who target you to make an effort to nerf your logistics pipeline... such as 0.0 alliances or whs operations... yet they never really follow you.. they just station camp there asses off... pathetic. 2: Said greifers are typically cowards... they refuse to leave the safety of high sec and as soon as you step out side into low-sec or WHS... they generally do not follow as they are now subject to getting shot at. This means they are geared to shoot down carebears and not other PVP'ers. 3: War-decs only end when there killboard eff. goes down or they get bored. As such its never a matter of ISK... and they tend to cheat the system by ending the war-dec and starting it up again to lower the rates when possible. War-decs as such are very cheap and cost literally nothing. Only gets expensive if they are stacked (multiple war-decs on target) or its an alliance. And typically they won't go after an alliance unless its an soft target. 4: War-decs as such do not serve any purpose other than to deal out easy kills and make it an overused excuse to say its PVP game only and that's that. Funny enough the excuse to tell them to go NPC doesn't work when you have suicide ganking at an all time high... imagine that. So yeah.... War-dec is broken... its frakked up... its abused... exploited... don't even get me started. So why do I not support this? Because there are no other methods in taking action against harassment. So like it or not... its here to stay. You'll love this tho. IMHO... there is absolutely no reason what so ever to be a corporaiton in high sec space. Seriously... its stupid. Unless your PVP'ing.... manufactureing (and odds are most are solo corps) or strong enough/intimdating enough to keep out of trouble... you have no business being in a corporaiton or being a member of one if your going to be a carebear. You make just as much money (more in many cases) and do better in NPC. Teams can exsist outside of a corporation... a corporaiton is nothing more than a formality with some minor advantages... With mailing-lists... chat rooms... cheap hosting... you can get one put together with minimal effort. So sorry mate... you should join an alliance that's strong enough to deal with it... or move to 0.0 space. It doesn't remove the risk... but the rewards make up for it if your able to hold your own out here. If I end up going to high sec... I will not be in a corporation of any kind... that I can assure you. (unless I decide to join one that's strong enough to deal with the problem) EVE is not PVE online or PVP online... its EVE Online. Don't let anyone tell you differently. So in conclusion... not supporting. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Shivani	Posted - 2010.02.20 20:40:00 - [36] Edited by: Shivani on 20/02/2010 20:41:20 Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Shivani Edited by: Shivani on 20/02/2010 16:58:11 Originally by: Sokratesz Short answer: No. Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. And you are who? enjoying an iceland trip off of your sub money atm Dunno, how CCP is hiring their CSMs, but obviously they anre't aware of you no showing any kind of respect for the paying customer. Luckily, you are only a CSM not a DEV, so it is not your call what happens and what doesn't happen. I'd advice CCP to do some quality selection ammong their CSMs.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.02.20 21:00:00 - [37] Originally by: gwabakk Eve online is a great MMO game because it allows the players freedom of choice of what careers they want to explore. The game had a very fine balance indeed between the interests of, say, the casual miner and the hardcore combat pilots. Each and everyone was allowed its fair amount of time and space in the game to persue whatever they choose to do. This has changed with the event or wardeccing. Wardeccing, whatever the fair intentions where when introduced, has now become a means to score easy kills and/or easy money in high-sec at the cost of the peacefull and innocent. A combat corp can start a war at very little cost against a miner corp, which of course is not equipped to defend itself. Some people argue that miner/manufacturing corp should prepare to defend themselves but you cannot possibly expect that players that have devoted all their time and resources to mining/manufacturing to be a match to a bunch of players who have devoted all their time and resources to combat. Furthermore, and at least as important, those miner did not come to eve to do combat, they chose a different path, because that is what they wanted, and that is what eve promised to be a valid paht when they started out. Now, with wardeccing, they are forced into a path they did not choose, and they do not whish to follow. High-sec isn't called high-sec for nothing, but what wardeccing has effectively done is making piracy legal in high-sec. My corp, less than a month old, has already been wardecced three times, every time without a proper reason. Wardeccing has given combat corps that do not want/dare to engage their equals the perfect to tool to just attack the defenseless instead, getting easy kills perfectly legal, and all that in high-sec. That can hardly have been the intention of the designers of this game feature. Wardeccing is disabling the free choice of career paths in eve (freedom that the game was designed for), and forcing miners to quit player corps and join NPC corps instead (which eve was not designed for). I do not propose to get rid of wardeccing, but restore the high-sec balance. When a wardec is mutual by both corps, no problem, go ahaed and fight it out. And low-sec being low-sec you should always expect being attacked. But when the wardec is not mutual, high-sec should still remain a save place, and any encounters should be concorded by the normal rules. I know this will also disable to opportunity to start wars in high-sec even if there is a valid reason, but then again, it would also be ridicolous if you could just give the local police (Concord) some money and then can go beat them neighbours up without consequense whatsoever. High-sec is high-sec and should be properly guarded. Bottom line: wardeccing, whatever its fair intentions were, has now become an abuse at the cost of those who justifiably have choosen a non-combat career in eve. And that abuse will have to stop. Engaging others in high-sec should always be concorded, even when the corps are at war (unless the wardec is mutual) Regards. Gwabakk I will support your proposal if you amend it so that I can choose buy the stuff you sell at a price I think is fair as long as I dont make any stuff myself. You see it is not my playstyle to spend all my time making ISK, and I dont see why you greedy miners and manufacturers should be allowed to grief me by gouging my wallet, forcing me to buy T2 ships and modules at far above the price I want to pay. Sound fair?
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.	Posted - 2010.02.20 21:25:00 - [38] Originally by: Shivani Edited by: Shivani on 20/02/2010 20:41:20 Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Shivani Edited by: Shivani on 20/02/2010 16:58:11 Originally by: Sokratesz Short answer: No. Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. And you are who? enjoying an iceland trip off of your sub money atm Dunno, how CCP is hiring their CSMs, but obviously they anre't aware of you no showing any kind of respect for the paying customer. Luckily, you are only a CSM not a DEV, so it is not your call what happens and what doesn't happen. I'd advice CCP to do some quality selection ammong their CSMs. CSM are elected by the players... CCP doesn't do much else beyond that. Malcanis - U Mad? ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Zonefire	Posted - 2010.02.20 21:33:00 - [39] Originally by: 343guilty1 Originally by: Zonefire Edited by: Zonefire on 20/02/2010 17:14:05 Now it just seems that people who don't support this are the people who enjoy war deccing indy corps. The high sec pirate corps are just the ones that fail at low sec/null sec pvp and have to get their anger out on people who can't fight back. in most cases, yes, but what about an a-hole corp who keeps can flipping you indy guys in our corp? what then, they just sit there and steal your ores? or what if you just plain out right don't like them cuz they talk smack? OR you got beef with em for a legit reason? Well eve is rated for people to be at least 13 years old. If you can't handle a little smack talk in local then maybe you need to mature a little. Many people I know just laugh off smack talk and try not to antagonize it. As for constant can flipping I can see that being a legit reason for a war dec, but not random can flipping one in awhile. What I think would be a good thing would be that each corp has to have a representative after a certain time period when the war is declared. Then both sides would have to explain why or why not they should be able to have a war. The third party would be representing concord(dev). This person would listen to both sides and decide if there is cause for war in high sec. But of course, EVE devs are lazy and probably wouldn't do this because then they would have to do actual work.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.02.20 22:43:00 - [40] Originally by: Shivani Luckily, you are only a CSM not a DEV, so it is not your call what happens and what doesn't happen. I'd advice CCP to do some quality selection ammong their CSMs. You would be sooo dissapointed if you knew what happened today. Also drake, being csm doesn¦t prevent me from laughing at stupid ideas. Want to test a supercap on SISI but don't have one?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.02.20 22:51:00 - [41] Originally by: Drake Draconis Malcanis - U Mad? Mad because I demonstrated what a stupid proposal this was? Oh yeah, flaming livid fury. I wept. I smashed my favourite chair. I tore my clothes and smeared ashes over my face. I have sworn a bloody oath of vengeance: I will not spare any man or woman or child, be they innocent or guilty, who stands between me and the death of the OP. I will spit on his grave.
Shivani	Posted - 2010.02.21 00:04:00 - [42] Originally by: Sokratesz You would be sooo dissapointed if you knew what happened today. Also drake, being csm doesn¦t prevent me from laughing at stupid ideas. I don't know how you want to tell whether i would be disappointed about some toony boony super secret going on or not. However i Do know, that CCP should rework their CSM system. And i do know that you are not a CCP related dev. However, whether something is a stupid idea or not is not your call to judge. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, at least in the free world. I surely hope you are living in the free world, don't you? Your opinion regarding a certain topic might differ, but that does not make your opinion better or "more true". I think, we understand, hm???
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.	Posted - 2010.02.21 00:56:00 - [43] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Shivani Luckily, you are only a CSM not a DEV, so it is not your call what happens and what doesn't happen. I'd advice CCP to do some quality selection ammong their CSMs. You would be sooo dissapointed if you knew what happened today. Also drake, being csm doesn¦t prevent me from laughing at stupid ideas. Didn't say you couldn't... or could. Just saying... nice image to project to the people... Not very bright. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.02.21 01:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Drake Draconis Malcanis - U Mad? Mad because I demonstrated what a stupid proposal this was? Oh yeah, flaming livid fury. I wept. I smashed my favourite chair. I tore my clothes and smeared ashes over my face. I have sworn a bloody oath of vengeance: I will not spare any man or woman or child, be they innocent or guilty, who stands between me and the death of the OP. I will spit on his grave. I'll sell you some ammo - I'm sure we can come to an agreement on the price. --Vel Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats.
I SoStoned Caldari	Posted - 2010.02.21 01:34:00 - [45] While I am agreed that the entire wardeclaration system needs a revamp, I am solidly against removing them to 'mutual only' status. What is needed is a way for the declaring corp to put 'demands' into the declaration clause that the declared party can choose to meet, or counter. Then they can duke it out just as they do now. Once the demands are met, however, the war should end in a very short time (30 mins).
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.02.21 02:11:00 - [46] Originally by: Zonefire Edited by: Zonefire on 20/02/2010 17:14:05 Now it just seems that people who don't support this are the people who enjoy war deccing indy corps. The high sec pirate corps are just the ones that fail at low sec/null sec pvp and have to get their anger out on people who can't fight back. Um not really. I'm in a corp that doesn't do this and I don't support this silly idea. Reason being: It's a silly idea. Although if I was in a corp that did wardec Indy corps I would still have to say I don't support this idea. Again though, its simply because it's a bad one. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.02.21 09:45:00 - [47] Originally by: Shivani However, whether something is a stupid idea or not is not your call to judge. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, at least in the free world. I surely hope you are living in the free world, don't you? Your opinion regarding a certain topic might differ, but that does not make your opinion better or "more true". I think, we understand, hm??? point on the doll where the wardec touched you Want to test a supercap on SISI but don't have one?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.02.21 10:06:00 - [48] The simplest way to stop weak helpless newbie corps being griefed by wardecs is to stop there being so many weak helpless newbie corps. People complain about being "griefed". The real griefers are the ones who trick new players in to joining weak, useless corps that cannot possibly protect them. You create a corp, then you raise a flag and declare you're ready to play with the big boys. If you're not ready to do that, you're not ready to create a corp. Increase the corp creation fee to 100M ISK and change the skill requirement to create one to Corporation Management 5. Problem is 90% solved overnight. Running a corp is not a newbie activity in EVE (or in RL)
Catrina Denaries Caldari	Posted - 2010.02.21 11:46:00 - [49] Edited by: Catrina Denaries on 21/02/2010 11:48:30 Originally by: Zonefire Edited by: Zonefire on 20/02/2010 17:14:05 Now it just seems that people who don't support this are the people who enjoy war deccing indy corps. The high sec pirate corps are just the ones that fail at low sec/null sec pvp and have to get their anger out on people who can't fight back. Look up my kills anywhere and I dare you to say that again. Originally by: Shivani Luckily, you are only a CSM not a DEV, so it is not your call what happens and what doesn't happen. I'd advice CCP to do some quality selection ammong their CSMs. You are aware CSM are democratically selected by the players without CCP interference, right? ----- The yarr is strong with this one.
Rvlxnx	Posted - 2010.02.21 11:50:00 - [50] i believe you need an office rented in order to be wardec'd ,.. dont you? .. im unsure of this,.. or can they click your corp banner and select "go to war" or something of that nature? if not then dont rent an office, after all an office is not really needed, really it isn't. but having one just makes things a bit easier for you and your corpies ummm without of course the war dec thing. its just easier to get on a "good" side with some mercs (ISK talks and dead pilots dont fly for a few;.. depending on how long you want them to "pay")
Catrina Denaries Caldari	Posted - 2010.02.21 12:46:00 - [51] Originally by: Rvlxnx i believe you need an office rented in order to be wardec'd ,.. dont you? .. im unsure of this,.. or can they click your corp banner and select "go to war" or something of that nature? if not then dont rent an office, after all an office is not really needed, really it isn't. but having one just makes things a bit easier for you and your corpies ummm without of course the war dec thing. its just easier to get on a "good" side with some mercs (ISK talks and dead pilots dont fly for a few;.. depending on how long you want them to "pay") ...the amount of people... sigh In order to wardec someone you open up a vote, do a search for the corpname, and hit apply. Done. There's no need for offices. ----- The yarr is strong with this one.
Rvlxnx	Posted - 2010.02.21 13:01:00 - [52] Ahhh Thank You for Enlightening me.
Zonefire	Posted - 2010.02.21 17:45:00 - [53] sigh In order to wardec someone you open up a vote, do a search for the corpname, and hit apply. Done. There's no need for offices. That is why war needs to be changed, it is to easy to declare war on smaller corps just to get free kills. Now some people say you shouldn't form a corp that can't defend itself. In other words they say they do not want any new corps forming, Since most new corps, unless made by people who started playing early on, are newer people. People just make up excuses why its good to have war so they can take advantage of it. It seems like wars are also to prevent newer people from experiencing the better parts of eve, even in high sec. Now people will continue to say that war is needed but to be honest, less then 1% of wars is actually needed. So why not just make it harder to make a war. Having a third party representing concord to determine if the war is just.
Alekseyev Karrde	Posted - 2010.02.21 17:51:00 - [54] Originally by: Shivani However, whether something is a stupid idea or not is not your call to judge. .... It's a pain in the ass for a 2 week old corp to get war decced by some 12 year old griefer with real life problems. Actually that's pretty much our ONLY job. We are a filter for bad ideas and to push the good ideas to CCP based on our judgement and experience. Your idea is terrible. If you and your friends can¦t handle losing CONCORD protection against someone who still wets the bed it¦s not CSM¦s problem or CCP¦s problem. ---
Xtover Suicide Kings	Posted - 2010.02.21 20:36:00 - [55] Originally by: Shivani Edited by: Shivani on 21/02/2010 00:15:14 Edited by: Shivani on 21/02/2010 00:14:51 I don't know how you want to tell whether i would be disappointed about some toony boony super secret going on or not. However i Do know, that CCP should rework their CSM system. And i do know that you are not a CCP related dev. However, whether something is a stupid idea or not is not your call to judge. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, at least in the free world. I surely hope you are living in the free world, don't you? Your opinion regarding a certain topic might differ, but that does not make your opinion better or "more true". I think, we understand, hm??? It's a pain in the ass for a 2 week old corp to get war decced by some 12 year old griefer with real life problems. No, it's not a pain in the ass. Harden up and fight back. Yes it's unfair but that's what eve is about. High second is safer, it is not meant to be safe. If you want help with griefers hire mercs. Many are new and will work for dirt cheap. As to your comments about sok, you might want to spend more time with the eve community to see what he's done for newer players (such as yourself), the advice he's given, the time he's put on the test server (including lending out supercaps) and the issues he's pushed forward through the CSM. Because so far you're just embarrassing yourself.
343guilty1 Gallente Strategic Insanity	Posted - 2010.02.21 20:44:00 - [56] Originally by: Xtover Originally by: Shivani Edited by: Shivani on 21/02/2010 00:15:14 Edited by: Shivani on 21/02/2010 00:14:51 I don't know how you want to tell whether i would be disappointed about some toony boony super secret going on or not. However i Do know, that CCP should rework their CSM system. And i do know that you are not a CCP related dev. However, whether something is a stupid idea or not is not your call to judge. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, at least in the free world. I surely hope you are living in the free world, don't you? Your opinion regarding a certain topic might differ, but that does not make your opinion better or "more true". I think, we understand, hm??? It's a pain in the ass for a 2 week old corp to get war decced by some 12 year old griefer with real life problems. No, it's not a pain in the ass. Harden up and fight back. Yes it's unfair but that's what eve is about. High second is safer, it is not meant to be safe. If you want help with griefers hire mercs. Many are new and will work for dirt cheap. As to your comments about sok, you might want to spend more time with the eve community to see what he's done for newer players (such as yourself), the advice he's given, the time he's put on the test server (including lending out supercaps) and the issues he's pushed forward through the CSM. Because so far you're just embarrassing yourself. Isn't that what i said already twice now? lol In any event i'd like to also point out, yes, CSM are voted, your fault for not casting votes -.- Third point, Life isn't fair, neither is virtual life >_> plain and simple My case point is this thread has become one big trolling fest, completely derailed from original intended point, has failed, to many accounts, and should probably be ended already, tired of it seeing the top of the list and getting attention for stupid ****ing contests, everyone grow up and just go kill each other in game -.-
Zonefire	Posted - 2010.02.21 21:50:00 - [57] The original purpose of this thread was to propose some way for new high sec, non-combat focus corps to avoid being griefed by people who have RL problems. But for some reason people keep drfting away from the topic. Maybe besides this problem we can get something passed to ban people who go on rants comletely off topic. A for an idea to help top USELESS wardecing, not the ons thatare legit, we should have concord(dev) be ahird party nd speak to a representative of both corps/alliances. Then they can explain why they want a war. And reasons can be checked to make sure its true. PS: If can flipping was a concord offence, no pirates would have ships in high sec.
Tamahra Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch TriMark Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.21 21:57:00 - [58] Originally by: Kruxxas mimimimimimi No!
Shivani	Posted - 2010.02.22 11:31:00 - [59] Edited by: Shivani on 22/02/2010 11:33:02 Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde We are a filter for bad ideas and to push the good ideas to CCP based on our judgement and experience. Your idea is terrible. It's not my idea, i am only supporting the OP to a certain degree. I am not part or member of the OP's corp either. Learn 2 read. Quote: If you and your friends can¦t handle losing CONCORD protection against someone who still wets the bed it¦s not CSM¦s problem or CCP¦s problem. I have no problems with war deccing corps, as the OP's corp is not my corp. Learn 2 read. :) This eve-character is over 6 years in training. You can be sure, that i know how ot handle pirates. Originally by: Xtover As to your comments about sok, you might want to spend more time with the eve community to see what he's done for newer players (such as yourself), Because so far you're just embarrassing yourself. Lolz, i don't know, who has been "embarrassing himself", as this player is not a new player. AGain: Learn 2 read! This player's toon has been a part of EVE since 2005. Oooooooppppps! but you do know what? I detest cheap and emberrassing greifers taking on some newbs. thats why I support this idea.
Alekseyev Karrde	Posted - 2010.02.22 11:40:00 - [60] So your defense is that you are a player whose old character explains away his poor grammer, moderate literacy, bad spelling, horrible ideas, shady judgement, etc and believe this makes you and the OP less of an embarassment....how? ---

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