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James 315
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1979
   |
Posted - 2012.07.01 21:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
On the eve of another great war in Delve, it's appropriate to take a moment and reflect upon the events that took place five years ago--events that would help determine the course of the EVE galaxy. Join me, won't you? 
'Twas the summer of 2007, and the Great War raged. The Band of Brothers alliance and its chief pet, the Mercenary Coalition, were conquering region after region in nullsec. Earlier in the year, the non-BoB powers of EVE had come to the conclusion that BoB was serious when it claimed its ambition was to conquer all of nullsec. Having conquered much of the south and west, BoB announced its intention to move eastward and consume more regions. In a desperate move, the great power of the north, D2, declared war against BoB and moved south. D2 understood that it was better to join some allies in a cataclysmic war against BoB than to just sit around and wait its turn to be destroyed.
The non-BoB powers had another good reason to despise BoB: In one of the greatest video game scandals of all time, it had come to light that the CCP devs had alts in BoB, and they had been actively assisting BoB in its takeover of nullsec. When D2, unbidden, jumped into the fight, it seemed for a brief moment that the nightmare of BoB domination would be prevented.
But that hope turned to horror as the galaxy watched the anti-BoB north get rolled up by the Mercenary Coalition. Led by Seleene, who had no ambition beyond being first among BoB's servants, the Mercenary Coalition shattered D2. With effective resistance at an end, MC began consuming the north.
Meanwhile, BoB itself marched eastward against the final bastion of its enemies. The southeast was home to the "RedSwarm Federation." The RSF was a coalition of three alliances, each of whom lacked the strength to make it on their own in nullsec but were formidable when combined: The Red Alliance, the Tau Ceti Federation, and GoonSwarm. Red and Tau Ceti were comprised, respectively, of Russian and French-speaking players who had few other options at the time but to stick together. They were relatively few in number, and had been pushed across the galaxy by more populous alliances. But they were battle-hardened, experienced, and determined to survive. The Goons complemented their coalition partners: They had a lot of troops but little in the way of equipment or organization.
Previously, the RSF had carved out a home for itself in the southeast, tearing apart an older power, Lotka Volterra. Before D2's invasion from the north, BoB planned to assist Lotka Volterra and turn the tide against the RSF. By the time D2 had been dealt with, Lotka Volterra was destroyed. This turned out to be useful for BoB: As they marched east against the RSF, they could simply conquer Lotka Volterra's old regions for themselves.
BoB and the RSF clashed. The RSF fell back. BoB stepped forward and claimed sovereignty over another region of nullsec. The RSF, the final obstacle in BoB's path toward total control of EVE, was fading. The RSF still had control of a few regions, but they were losing hope: If they couldn't stop BoB from taking one of their regions, how could they stop BoB from taking the rest?
Then came the collapse of the Goons. Remedial, the Goons' founder and long-time leader, decided to quit the game. He was convinced that BoB could not be stopped, and that EVE was essentially over. Remedial transferred leadership of the Goons to The Mittani. But before Remedial left, he gave The Mittani his plan for how the Goons who didn't quit the game might still find some fun: Unanchor all remaining sovereignty-claiming structures, pack their bags, cede the Goon regions to BoB, and move across the galaxy to NPC space to mess around. Remedial even gave The Mittani a script for a State of the Goonion speech announcing this new strategy, which The Mittani delivered.
Had the surrender of the Goon regions taken place, the RSF would have crippled. Combined, the three powers had not been able to stop BoB. Without the Swarm, their chances of continued survival would have gone from bad to zero. And with that, all EVE would belong to BoB.
For those who did not play EVE at the time, it is difficult to fully comprehend just how powerful BoB had become. No other alliance has come close to its dominance of the game. BoB and its pets controlled a majority of the galaxy. Its leadership came from players who had been in EVE from the beginning--some from the Beta. Its core was comprised of the oldest and most successful PvP alliances. It had never lost a war. Ever.
Had the Goons retreated, or had BoB succeeded in its goal of defeating the RSF, it is no exaggeration to say that no one reading this thread would be playing EVE today. BoB's dream of total control of EVE would have been realized, but EVE would have died as a result. And at the time, most agreed that a BoB victory was the most likely outcome of the Great War.
But that didn't happen, now did it?
* * * (Proceed to section 2.) * * *
|
James 315
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1979
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 21:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Though The Mittani had announced Remedial's plan of withdrawing from the RSF, he had serious doubts about its wisdom. Time and again, Remedial attempted to convince him that the game was broken and that there was no alternative, but the doubts remained. The Goons hated BoB, and many still wanted to fight.
As The Mittani weighed his options, EVE was rocked by yet more revelations from the BoB/CCP scandal. The corruption ran much deeper than was originally believed. Contrary to their protests, the leaders of BoB had known about the devs in their alliance all along, and they were aware of the cheating. Instead of reporting it, BoB's leaders had attempted to cover it up. In fact, BoB's leaders had maintained a secret line of communication with the devs going all the way back to the beginning of EVE. There was apparently no limit to CCP's involvement with BoB--the line between the two had become blurry. By no coincidence, that very same alliance stood poised to conquer all of nullsec. Players were furious.
For BoB, the scandal was a double-edged sword. On the one hand, players all across EVE hated them for it. But on the other hand, CCP's involvement with BoB only reinforced the impression that BoB was invincible. Perhaps the best illustration of BoB's image may be found in the song "EVE Online is for BoB". It was an audio-only parody created by EVE player Curzon Dax in June 2007. Despite its content, it received rave reviews from the devs. The song poked fun at the scandal, but also left the impression that BoB couldn't be defeated. BoB was, in essence, the official alliance of EVE.
To BoB's enemies, the scandal was no laughing matter. The Mittani unleashed the Goons onto the forums in a mass protest. Putting it mildly, CCP was not amused. In the wake of the "threadnought," The Mittani, having only just taken command of GoonSwarm, resigned and turned leadership over to Sesfan Qu'lah. The near simultaneous resignations of Remedial and The Mittani left many observers with just one conclusion: Failure Cascade.
Sesfan, like The Mittani, disagreed with Remedial's plans. Sesfan was a fleet commander, and his natural inclination was to fight. As BoB rolled into the next Goon region and started dismantling its defenses, Sesfan did everything he could to strike back. Then, one day, an opportunity presented itself.
Since ASCN constructed the first titan in September 2006, no titan had ever been destroyed in combat. The reason is that titans had an ability known as the "remote doomsday," which enabled them to completely wipe out an enemy fleet anywhere in the system. Thus, a titan could fly to a safe spot or creep outside of POS shields, activate the remote doomsday against an enemy fleet somewhere else in the system, and retreat to safety or cloak without the possibility of retaliation. Only two titans had ever been killed up to this point. In both cases, the titan pilot had accidentally logged off within 15 minutes of having been aggressed. At the time, there was no visible aggression timer, so if a pilot miscalculated when he had last been aggressed, his ship would remain in space--completely defenseless--for an additional 15 minutes. After those two titan deaths, titan pilots wised up, and none could be killed. Upon reading an extraordinarily lengthy essay about titans written by Goon Bein Glorious, CCP finally fixed this problem by removing the remote doomsday. Titans could only doomsday enemies on the same grid as the titan.
BoB's supreme leader, SirMolle, owned a titan which he piloted with his alt, Shrike. It's been said that in order to field titans across multiple time zones, BoB frequently used account sharing--a violation of the EULA--and that Shrike may have been piloted by one or more additional players. After firing his doomsday at some Goons, Shrike cloaked at a great distance from the gate. The Goons returned, hunting for the hated titan. Like an arrow guided by the gods into Achilles' heel, a tackler managed to fly directly into the invisible titan, decloaking it. Sesfan ordered his fleet to destroy the titan, and he quickly sent word to the rest of the RSF to bring in as many dreadnoughts as they could.
BoB was caught off-guard. The titan's shields peeled away. As the titan's death became a real possibility, someone in the Goon fleet started recording video, along with audio of the fleet comms. The result was this epic video.
Like BoB, titans were considered invincible. The titan was killed anyway. But did it matter?
* * * (Proceed to section 3.) * * *
|
James 315
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1979
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 21:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
The death of Shrike provided a much-needed morale boost to the Goons, and to all who hated BoB. The fact remained, however, that although BoB had lost a ship, they had control of most of the galaxy. They had never lost a war. From its inception, the Band of Brothers had been given every advantage imaginable, and total victory was just within reach.
Then there was YACAODI1MAC.
In the golden age of the CAOD subforum, anyone in a non-NPC corp could post. CAOD was the primary source of EVE players' information about nullsec happenings, and there was great temptation for members of various alliances to use alts to make bad posts about things. One day, a mysterious stranger appeared in CAOD, announcing himself as the CEO of "Yet Another CAOD-Inspired 1-Man Alt Corp," or YACAODI1MAC. He claimed that he was not like the others, and that he had something important to share with the people of EVE.
On July 1, 2007, YACAODI1MAC posted "JUNE IN REVIEW: An Objective Analysis of the War Situation," an excoriation of BoB. It wasn't the first time YACAODI1MAC had made a post; earlier in the month, a post entitled "The Mercenary Coalition's Big Decision" began the long process of driving a wedge between MC and BoB, a theme to which YACAODI1MAC frequently returned--until a split between the two powers did occur a few months later.
But "June in Review" was the first to directly address BoB. Not only was BoB not going to win the war and conquer nullsec, the post declared, but BoB was inherently flawed and ultimately doomed to "disappear." This concept would soon find its expression in the better-known (and much longer) "Why is BoB Losing?" saga.
Needless to say, this was not the prevailing wisdom in July 2007. The first reply to the thread was from a pilot who wrote, simply, "End yourself." That seemed to be the attitude of most readers. But there were a few who found the ideas expressed by YACAODI1MAC to be intriguing.
"June in Review" is notable for another reason. Just a few weeks earlier, GoonSwarm appeared ready to Fail Cascade. It had been beaten and bloodied, it was in the process of losing territory, it lost its founder and his replacement almost instantly, it declared its surrender of territories--though it didn't follow through--and CCP was threatening widespread bans due to the threadnought. But YACAODI1MAC uttered this chilling prophecy:
The goon, Romulus and Remus ad infinitum, suckled on the teat of the she-wolf Remedial;
these goons when still babes, almost strangled by BoB in their cradles;
these goons when children, making a snack of Shrike's titan;
these goons when full-grown, devour the world.
Five years ago today.
- 315
|
Elohe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 22:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
The great war is the most epic player generated content in any game in my opinion, it was great to be part of it
you should come back to the alliance james |
Tallianna Avenkarde
Deadman W0nderland
357
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 22:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
I doth tingle
And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
530
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 22:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Good parallel. I suppose the worry of Devs helping a side during this great war is remote, since most of them will be gone for a summer vacation. Most unpatriotic to this game.
I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
144
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 22:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
well i didnt read any of that.
the turning point of eve was the introduction of the capital ship class.
see?
i did it in one sentence.
qfmjt-1 |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 22:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
James 315 wrote:The death of Shrike provided a much-needed morale boost to the Goons, and to all who hated BoB. The fact remained, however, that although BoB had lost a ship, they had control of most of the galaxy. They had never lost a war. From its inception, the Band of Brothers had been given every advantage imaginable, and total victory was just within reach. Then there was YACAODI1MAC. In the golden age of the CAOD subforum, anyone in a non-NPC corp could post. CAOD was the primary source of EVE players' information about nullsec happenings, and there was great temptation for members of various alliances to use alts to make bad posts about things. One day, a mysterious stranger appeared in CAOD, announcing himself as the CEO of "Yet Another CAOD-Inspired 1-Man Alt Corp," or YACAODI1MAC. He claimed that he was not like the others, and that he had something important to share with the people of EVE. On July 1, 2007, YACAODI1MAC posted "JUNE IN REVIEW: An Objective Analysis of the War Situation," an excoriation of BoB. It wasn't the first time YACAODI1MAC had made a post; earlier in the month, a post entitled "The Mercenary Coalition's Big Decision" began the long process of driving a wedge between MC and BoB, a theme to which YACAODI1MAC frequently returned--until a split between the two powers did occur a few months later. But "June in Review" was the first to directly address BoB. Not only was BoB not going to win the war and conquer nullsec, the post declared, but BoB was inherently flawed and ultimately doomed to "disappear." This concept would soon find its expression in the better-known (and much longer) "Why is BoB Losing?" saga. Needless to say, this was not the prevailing wisdom in July 2007. The first reply to the thread was from a pilot who wrote, simply, "End yourself." That seemed to be the attitude of most readers. But there were a few who found the ideas expressed by YACAODI1MAC to be intriguing. "June in Review" is notable for another reason. Just a few weeks earlier, GoonSwarm appeared ready to Fail Cascade. It had been beaten and bloodied, it was in the process of losing territory, it lost its founder and his replacement almost instantly, it declared its surrender of territories--though it didn't follow through--and CCP was threatening widespread bans due to the threadnought. But YACAODI1MAC uttered this chilling prophecy: The goon, Romulus and Remus ad infinitum, suckled on the teat of the she-wolf Remedial;
these goons when still babes, almost strangled by BoB in their cradles;
these goons when children, making a snack of Shrike's titan;
these goons when full-grown, devour the world.Five years ago today. - 315
Nice post, seen you in my neck of the woods recently, must be a comedown bumping peeps for 10million ransomes?
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
137
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 22:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
It's official, I finally read an entire James315 post from start to finish. Would actually read again. |
qDoctor Strangelove
Beware of the Red Fox
29
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 22:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
End yourself. |
|
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Abel Merkabah
TIMELINE Industries
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 22:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
I love James threads. As a new player, the history of the universe is all new to me. Thank you for the history lessons.
"To destroy is always the first step in any creation." - E. E. Cummings |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1142
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 22:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
It didn't get to the turning point when BoB failed to take that one system's sov...
It's like some sort of epic saga of EVE: POS-based sovereignty warfare.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1713
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 22:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
There are no Goons.
TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Xython
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
978
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 22:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rellik B00n wrote:well i didnt read any of that.
the turning point of eve was the introduction of the capital ship class.
see?
i did it in one sentence.
So you're trolling and offering nothing to the conversation? Good to know. Get out. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1142
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 23:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:There are no Goons.
the goons 0.0 dream is over
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
52
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 23:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
If nothing else, you always provide an interesting read, James. Not a bad way to blow 15 minutes while waiting in a queue. I wonder though, is it mere nostalgia that prompts it, or something more...?
A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
D3F4ULT
117
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 00:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
The turning point in EVE was 5 years ago when I made my first trial account when BoB was in this war.
I sure did give those veld roids what they deserved for taking over my empire space. 5 years later, they're still invading and I'm still at war with them.
Creator of CCP ZULU - Incarna : Pants Online ( http://youtu.be/AObrlCf3Dcs ) |
Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 00:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
[---------------------Censored by by CCL---------------------------]
* Dear Kyshonuba no NPC corporations carebear characters are allowed to post in this thread*
Regards CommunityCommunicationLiaisons
edit: Oh no  |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1713
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 00:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kyshonuba wrote:[---------------------Censored by by CCL---------------------------] * Dear Kyshonuba no NPC corporations carebear characters are allowed to post in this thread* Regards CommunityCommunicationLiaisonsedit: Oh no
You ----EDIT----.
You're not very good at this, are you. You should ----EDIT---- your ----EDIT---- ----EDIT----.
Post edited.
Don't post content on these forums, please.
lSD Oxygen Starved Brain
Badmodder
Ninja Edit Team
Department for removal of all forum content
TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp
Unified Church of the Unobligated
394
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 00:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Everything That Has Been Shall Be Again
Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method
Mamma didn't raise no victims. |
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Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
155
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 00:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
War in null with the same recycled players?... *yawn* |
Zastrow
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
83
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 02:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't know that I'll ever be involved in anything as truly epic as The Great EVE war in any game, ever. Man those were golden days. On one hand EVE mechanics were so much worse than they are now, but the posting, the propaganda, the diplomacy, the shadow wars and spying... There were no holds barred and it was glorious. As Goonswarm's logistics director at the time I would stay up all night long anchoring POS, I would log in during lectures in class to time stront, I did all of these ridiculous things without question and with no regrets. I wish there could ever be a space conflict so grand again, but I don't know that we'll ever see one. |
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
13
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 03:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
This thread has been cleaned due to violations of Rule 15, Impersonating another forum user, moderator, volunteer, administrator or CCP employee is strictly prohibited.
ISD Tyrozan
Ensign
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
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Luis Graca
98
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 03:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Can you put that in a video since i'm to lazy to read all that? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1142
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 03:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Zastrow wrote:I don't know that I'll ever be involved in anything as truly epic as The Great EVE war in any game, ever. Man those were golden days. On one hand EVE mechanics were so much worse than they are now, but the posting, the propaganda, the diplomacy, the shadow wars and spying... There were no holds barred and it was glorious. As Goonswarm's logistics director at the time I would stay up all night long anchoring POS, I would log in during lectures in class to time stront, I did all of these ridiculous things without question and with no regrets. I wish there could ever be a space conflict so grand again, but I don't know that we'll ever see one.
You don't think SoCo, with so many people having answered the batphones, is - perhaps - unable to live up to their goals of beating up the Honeybadger Coalition and the CFC then taking over Fountain?
What is this...
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
90
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 04:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Great reporting... this is the way these things should be done. PC Gamer should fire their staff and hire this guy. |
Nazowa
UK Corp
RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 07:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Very nice writing. |
JC Anderson
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
663
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 07:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Prior to taking over as CEO of my old corporation, we had been part of the ASCN and truly felt the sting of those events. And lets not mention how we were the first ones to lose a Titan in Eve... To Bob no less. Back then, a titan loss was big news since you could count the total number of titans in eve on one hand.
We had extremely bad luck with nullsec alliances.... We loaded up our freighters and flew the 40+ jumps with an escort fleet to get our assets out. It would have been nice if jump freighters and jump bridges existed back then. I think warp to 0 was implemented not long before that. I do remember it made the trek easier.
Then again we could have been using the bookmark workaround still, lagging to hell each time we opened our 10 thousand + bookmark people and places folder.
Did I mention we had bad luck will nul sec alliances? We ended up in knights ofthe southern cross after that. Which you can remember met nearly the same fate as the ASCN.
Though, from the moment that I realized the alliance ticker was KOS, I knew it would end badly. |
hedge betts Shiyurida
State Protectorate
Caldari State
41
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 07:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Zastrow wrote:I don't know that I'll ever be involved in anything as truly epic as The Great EVE war in any game, ever. Man those were golden days. On one hand EVE mechanics were so much worse than they are now, but the posting, the propaganda, the diplomacy, the shadow wars and spying... There were no holds barred and it was glorious. As Goonswarm's logistics director at the time I would stay up all night long anchoring POS, I would log in during lectures in class to time stront, I did all of these ridiculous things without question and with no regrets. I wish there could ever be a space conflict so grand again, but I don't know that we'll ever see one. id speculate that the current war has more potential.
CFC are going head to head with soco. Goons have pissed off a lot of high sec players,. CFC have to be mindful not to get into a trench war or they could find them self fighting a three ground war.
Exciting times
Cup the balls, and work the shaft |
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
136
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 07:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
It is important to note that history is written by the victors. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8322
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 07:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
ModeratedToSilence wrote:It is important to note that history is written by the victors. GǪwhich is deeply unfair to the Oscars and Antons.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
136
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 07:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
hedge betts Shiyurida wrote: id speculate that the current war has more potential.
CFC are going head to head with soco. Goons have pissed off a lot of high sec players,. CFC have to be mindful not to get into a trench war or they could find them self fighting a three ground war.
Exciting times
I'd speculate that Goons have the stick-ability to handle a protracted campaign on the other side of the universe. The issue to contend with will be the upcoming tech nerf.
I'm tempted to speculate that controlling Delve is more about moon income diversity than goons are willing to say, but such speculation would be futile. |
pussnheels
442
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 07:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
a good piece of reading tho pretty onesided , still very interesting for anyplayer younger than 5 years
Empires come and go like the tide
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
hedge betts Shiyurida
State Protectorate
Caldari State
41
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 08:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
ModeratedToSilence wrote:hedge betts Shiyurida wrote: id speculate that the current war has more potential.
CFC are going head to head with soco. Goons have pissed off a lot of high sec players,. CFC have to be mindful not to get into a trench war or they could find them self fighting a three ground war.
Exciting times
I'd speculate that Goons have the stick-ability to handle a protracted campaign on the other side of the universe. The issue to contend with will be the upcoming tech nerf. I'm tempted to speculate that controlling Delve is more about moon income diversity than goons are willing to say, but such speculation would be futile. there is also IRC. If they get their heads out of their holes. Raiden are butt hurt. The list goes on.
I would not say it's an anti goon/cfc thing but 0.0 is dead and a circular war spanning the universe would be epic
Cup the balls, and work the shaft |
Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
Dark Matter Coalition
1171
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 08:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
That.
Was.
Amazing.
The Drake is a Lie |
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
46
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 08:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
ModeratedToSilence wrote:It is important to note that history is written by the victors.
... and that it repeats itself. |
Ghost Xray
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 08:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
I was there.
My memory is hazy on this, but I can remember when MC rolled into the D2 systems (I was part of a meat shield corp living in their systems - VFK-IV in fact) and we got crushed while D2 barely sent any help. Not cool D2, not cool.
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Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
772
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 08:57:00 -
[38] - Quote
What an excellent read about a truly awe-inspiring sequence of events. How can one not appreciate the planning, the sadness, the anger and frustrations which must have been rife for years ? I have actually filed your post in my Eve History folder, James, for I do not often have the pleasure of reading such a well-written account of a war which raged on many fronts, over several years. For a game. The politics and the organisation involved must have been monumental.
Astonishing. A must-keep article.
Thank you Sir, your article inspired me and set the theatre of my mind through a vast galactic journey of war, fear, courage, rage, vengeance and unity.
*Salutes*
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Lord Zim
978
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 09:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:id speculate that the current war has more potential.
CFC are going head to head with soco. Goons have pissed off a lot of high sec players,. CFC have to be mindful not to get into a trench war or they could find them self fighting a three ground war.
Exciting times
Personally I'd be highly surprised if it lasts more than a month or two, simply because one side'll get rolled a few times, parts of it will find other games to play, and the entire soco'll collapse and retreat to NPC stain. I'd love for it to be the one war I'm involved in which lasts more than a few weeks of active conflict before the pure structure grind sets in. |
Akiyo XI
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
50
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 09:22:00 -
[40] - Quote
intriguing.....
A nice bit of EVE history that deserves a sci-fi film adaptation
"the wise speak only of what they know" |
|
|
Anna Djan
Banana Corp
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 09:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
"Those who don't learn from the past are destined to repeat it".
Goons = The new BoB. |
Nirnias Stirrum
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
203
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 10:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
Epic read! thanks. |
Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
144
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 10:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Xython wrote:Rellik B00n wrote:well i didnt read any of that.
the turning point of eve was the introduction of the capital ship class.
see?
i did it in one sentence. So you're trolling and offering nothing to the conversation? Good to know. Get out.
no you.
fake edit: also you are incorrect on both counts, please try and dock your pod in jita sometime soon so i can punish you for these actions.
qfmjt-1 |
Elmanketticks
State Protectorate
Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 10:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
Would read again! Thanks for the history lesson!
FOR THE STATE! |
trollerii
Evil Eye corp
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 10:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
I wonder what great wars will come in the next decade of this amazing game. EVE is truly a game that can keep campaigns and events going for months or even years. The game is TOO DAMN GOOD |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
Persona Non Gratis
73
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 11:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
Thoroughly enjoyable read. Thanks for the history lesson. |
terzslave
Vendetta Rising
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 11:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!?!?!? Please finish............ |
Miles Parabellum
The Grindmonkeys
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 12:17:00 -
[48] - Quote
I have zero idea about how nullsec works, but the story was pretty cool.
I'd read again :) |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
334
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 12:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
This 'Great War' doesnt start in summer..... its starts when the summer is over.... ppl are back from their holidays, the weather has gone terrible again and when the kiddies in mom's basement are heading back to school again.....
CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club
Biggby Coffee Fan Club
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 12:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
While my friends and I spent a relatively short amount of time in Period Basis fighting the southern flank of BoB, it was the best time I ever had in this game. We failed to accomplish the removal of BoB, but ultimately in the end, BoB was vanquished.
It is funny how you think the game would only be better if you get rid of that One evil thing, then to realize it was what kept this game together for so many people. I think since BoB is gone many are lost, Goons and Co. might actually be worse for the game, and most of my long time friends have since left to other pastures.
Hard to think it is the same EVE to be honest.  |
|
|
Watooshi Makoochji
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 12:54:00 -
[51] - Quote
Propaganda or not, well written and very interesting James 315!
However, your central premise, that Goons heroic resistance of BoB 'saved' the game, exemplified in the following quote
Quote:Had the Goons retreated, or had BoB succeeded in its goal of defeating the RSF, it is no exaggeration to say that no one reading this thread would be playing EVE today. BoB's dream of total control of EVE would have been realized, but EVE would have died as a result.
is baldly speculative and quite possibly grossly exaggerative.
Certainly the history is fascinating, and I imagine that your version of it is a reasonably accurate and complete rendition. But stating in such an absolute way that "Goon's resistance" saved the day is over the top.
This sort of rhetoric tends to arouse suspicion and mistrust among the levelheaded neutrals of the universe and seems likely to provide 'ammuntion' for your detractors.
You did a good job of saving up and leaving the most outrageous hyperbole till that final paragraph. But I reckon your overall success at enthralling or beguiling your readers would've been strengthened had you simply said something like:
"By refusing to retreat, and thwarting BoB in its goal of defeating the RSF, Goons certainly contributed decisively to the shape of the EVE online world today. One might even wonder aloud, 'If BoB's dream of total control of EVE had been realized, might EVE online have died as a result?"
There you see? Now instead of making the speculative and empirically untestable _assertion_ that Goons are heroes who saved EVE from death as a game, you simply plant the question in your readers head as to whether Goons MIGHT be the hero 
|
JC Anderson
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
663
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 12:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
Also, back then, nor do do I think now that MC were pet's of BOB when everything took place. BOB was their employers in the long term and paying MC quite a nice chunk of change during it all.
At one point MC was commonly believed to have one of the largest capital fleets in the game. (Back then it was carriers and dreads) I wouldn't have been surprised if theirs even rivaled BOBs. |
JC Anderson
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
663
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 13:07:00 -
[53] - Quote
Oh and for those of you who have never seen it....
This video is worth watching and portions of it relate to the threads topic.
Epic Video ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYEaPLCCIrY |
Danfen Fenix
130
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 13:21:00 -
[54] - Quote
Great read, taught me quite a bit
Gotta say though, imo, the goons from back then sound so much more...'respectable' ? (can't think of another word... :P ), then they are now. What happened to them ?  |
JC Anderson
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
663
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 13:25:00 -
[55] - Quote
Danfen Fenix wrote:Great read, taught me quite a bit Gotta say though, imo, the goons from back then sound so much more...'respectable' ? (can't think of another word... :P ), then they are now. What happened to them ?
They were originally a group of new players that was tired of getting kicked around by other "established" powers. So they did something about it. :P
Things change. |
hedge betts Shiyurida
State Protectorate
Caldari State
41
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 13:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:Danfen Fenix wrote:Great read, taught me quite a bit Gotta say though, imo, the goons from back then sound so much more...'respectable' ? (can't think of another word... :P ), then they are now. What happened to them ? They were originally a group of new players that was tired of getting kicked around by other "established" powers. So they did something about it. :P Things change. and now they are the one's kicking other players down because they can
Cup the balls, and work the shaft |
Annabell Ood
Ood Mineral Resources Management
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 13:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
Awesome read James .. Thanks!!!
I do hope you do a follow up article on the Death of BoB |
Jafit
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
267
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 15:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
We need a historically inaccurate movie recreation of the saga of nullsec.
Like Game of Thrones but with more local spam.
Game of Drones? No... no that's dumb. |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
111
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 15:21:00 -
[59] - Quote
Danfen Fenix wrote:Great read, taught me quite a bit Gotta say though, imo, the goons from back then sound so much more...'respectable' ? (can't think of another word... :P ), then they are now. What happened to them ?
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. They went from being the courageous resistance to becoming the evil empire. They have no one to fight in null-sec so they come to empire to kick the carebears around. |
Cause Effect
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 15:40:00 -
[60] - Quote
Makes me sad that I only started this game back at the start of 2011
Really nice to read about the history of this game |
|
|
Khanh'rhh
1371
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 16:12:00 -
[61] - Quote
Watooshi Makoochji wrote:Propaganda or not, well written and very interesting James 315! However, your central premise, that Goons heroic resistance of BoB 'saved' the game, exemplified in the following quote Quote:Had the Goons retreated, or had BoB succeeded in its goal of defeating the RSF, it is no exaggeration to say that no one reading this thread would be playing EVE today. BoB's dream of total control of EVE would have been realized, but EVE would have died as a result. is baldly speculative and quite possibly grossly exaggerative. Certainly the history is fascinating, and I imagine that your version of it is a reasonably accurate and complete rendition. But stating in such an absolute way that "Goon's resistance" saved the day is over the top. This sort of rhetoric tends to arouse suspicion and mistrust among the levelheaded neutrals of the universe and seems likely to provide 'ammuntion' for your detractors. You did a good job of saving up and leaving the most outrageous hyperbole till that final paragraph. But I reckon your overall success at enthralling or beguiling your readers would've been strengthened had you simply said something like: "By refusing to retreat, and thwarting BoB in its goal of defeating the RSF, Goons certainly contributed decisively to the shape of the EVE online world today. One might even wonder aloud, 'If BoB's dream of total control of EVE had been realized, might EVE online have died as a result?" There you see? Now instead of making the speculative and empirically untestable _assertion_ that Goons are heroes who saved EVE from death as a game, you simply plant the question in your readers head as to whether Goons MIGHT be the hero
See, the thing is BoB didn't have allies, they had pets. Basically *all* the "lol pets!" of today stems from what BoB did. You either did what BoB wanted, or they screwed you over with overwhelming numbers.
The CFC on the other hand are allies of one another, and they don't have an Owner > pet relationship, such that BoB were famous for reveling in.
By "saving EvE" James is talking about putting an end to a trend where the whole of EvE had two choices
a) Sit in highsec
b) Succumbto BoB's way of doing things.
I feel it's an accurate assessment.
An acute analogy might be to look at how Rome treated their Protectorate states, vs how a modern superpower treats an ally, for instance.
-
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Metal Icarus
xHELLonEARTHx
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
222
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 16:16:00 -
[62] - Quote
Great read op!
ModeratedToSilence wrote:hedge betts Shiyurida wrote: id speculate that the current war has more potential.
CFC are going head to head with soco. Goons have pissed off a lot of high sec players,. CFC have to be mindful not to get into a trench war or they could find them self fighting a three ground war.
Exciting times
I'd speculate that Goons have the stick-ability to handle a protracted campaign on the other side of the universe. The issue to contend with will be the upcoming tech nerf. I'm tempted to speculate that controlling Delve is more about moon income diversity than goons are willing to say, but such speculation would be futile.
Speculation? in F20 the CFC dropped a station to stage from....
Not a pos, didnt pick a nearby station, nope they build a "20 Billion Isk staging tower"
Futile because its obvious? |
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries
EPIC Alliance
156
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 16:22:00 -
[63] - Quote
Ahh, the days when goons were a good alliance...
"We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming. |
SegaPhoenix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 16:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
Tortuga - Lacrimosa, The best player generated EvE Online video ever produced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NDBbt2yBII |
Phoebe Buffet
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 16:31:00 -
[65] - Quote
While during that campaign you forgot the part where BoB invaded Tribute and was kicked out by Morsus Mihi......twice. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1143
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 16:58:00 -
[66] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:ModeratedToSilence wrote:I'd speculate that Goons have the stick-ability to handle a protracted campaign on the other side of the universe. The issue to contend with will be the upcoming tech nerf.
I'm tempted to speculate that controlling Delve is more about moon income diversity than goons are willing to say, but such speculation would be futile. Speculation? in F20 the CFC dropped a station to stage from.... Not a pos, didnt pick a nearby station, nope they build a "20 Billion Isk staging tower" Futile because its obvious?
Yeah it's called "20 BIllion Isk Staging Tower" isn't it? We even have sov.
But unless you think there's some serious lying going on, TEST and co (honeybadgers) will be splitting up delve and so on. It would be odd if the idea of diversifying is to go down and not want any of the moons. Or even sov.
I think GSF will be holding a few systems or something (logistics must be happy to not deal with too much) and we'll see how that goes. If the (ohsobrokenforceprojection) Jump Bridges are up, it'll be a nice highway right to someone's front door.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
849
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 17:17:00 -
[67] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Danfen Fenix wrote:Great read, taught me quite a bit Gotta say though, imo, the goons from back then sound so much more...'respectable' ? (can't think of another word... :P ), then they are now. What happened to them ? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. They went from being the courageous resistance to becoming the evil empire. They have no one to fight in null-sec so they come to empire to kick the carebears around.
You dont get out much (or in fact read much) do you?
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Dervinus
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
48
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 17:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
What a great read James! As someone who has come into the game just over a year ago, I have fought in every major TEST and CFC campaign from the mop-up of Headshot VFK to Delve 4, Curse, Vale, Geminate, Branch, Tenal, and Delve 5. While these have been awesome campaigns with some amazing battles, it doesnt sound like any of them compare to the bad old days. I wish I had know the depth of Eve back then and had been involved in it. Thanks for the history lesson - this stuff is what makes Eve so different from anything else!
THE DOVITANI FOR CSM |
Crimsonjade
Comanche Nation
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 17:45:00 -
[69] - Quote
was interesting reading that History. realizing i saw alot of the war in various corps, its reminding me how someone needs to do one of the first great war. where BoB had to become BoB, as its a good a read as this. with way more backstabing and vile pirates |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1143
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 17:53:00 -
[70] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:Zyress wrote:Danfen Fenix wrote:Great read, taught me quite a bit Gotta say though, imo, the goons from back then sound so much more...'respectable' ? (can't think of another word... :P ), then they are now. What happened to them ? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. They went from being the courageous resistance to becoming the evil empire. They have no one to fight in null-sec so they come to empire to kick the carebears around. You dont get out much (or in fact read much) do you?
It's funny because we're kicking down Delve's door and shooting it up.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
|
|
Adalun Dey
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 18:20:00 -
[71] - Quote
There is rarely a thread with such a long first post that's worth reading. This one was though. Nicely illustrated and told with an I-was-there and Eve-is-real vibe to it. If you don't already write reviews, have a column or keep a blog, James, please do, would love to read more.
also
Goons have the best propaganda evah!
" Take my love, take my land, take me where I can not stand,
I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. "
|
Galavet
Reikoku
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 18:26:00 -
[72] - Quote
Phoebe Buffet wrote:While during that campaign you forgot the part where BoB invaded Tribute and was kicked out by Morsus Mihi......twice.
While most of what James notes is one sided BS, everything you have said is 100% BS.
Oh and End Yourselves, just for old-times sake.
|
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
62
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 18:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
Wow, that was a nice read. Nice job. Almost made Goon and company sound like heroes. Funny how things change.. |
Pontifex Rex
Valor Inc.
Nulli Secunda
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 19:00:00 -
[74] - Quote
Nice post man. I wish I had played Eve during that period. Glad I am involved in a big war now! |
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Of Mordor
20
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 19:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
9-980U was BoB 's turning point in July of '07
I called it our Stalingrad, after that it was down hill on two fronts.
Just couldn't move further at the end of a long supply line. Awesome battle and campaign, its too bad the war couldn't have ended more heroic, the goons cheated themselves of the greatest glory, an epic legend.  |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2148
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 19:12:00 -
[76] - Quote
Galavet wrote:Phoebe Buffet wrote:While during that campaign you forgot the part where BoB invaded Tribute and was kicked out by Morsus Mihi......twice. While most of what James notes is one sided BS, everything you have said is 100% BS. Oh and End Yourselves, just for old-times sake.
Agreed that the tales of Dev favoratism are a bit... distorted (although a very good read).
However Phoebe is not incorrect. The last time around we killed Shrike's Titan twice in as many days.
If I dig around I should be able to find my kill mail of the first and my sons kill mail of the second.
Not intended to steal Goon thunder though. Nice read.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1726
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 01:28:00 -
[77] - Quote
ISD Tyrozan wrote:This thread has been cleaned due to violations of Rule 15, Impersonating another forum user, moderator, volunteer, administrator or CCP employee is strictly prohibited.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
480
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 03:39:00 -
[78] - Quote
hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:Zastrow wrote:I don't know that I'll ever be involved in anything as truly epic as The Great EVE war in any game, ever. Man those were golden days. On one hand EVE mechanics were so much worse than they are now, but the posting, the propaganda, the diplomacy, the shadow wars and spying... There were no holds barred and it was glorious. As Goonswarm's logistics director at the time I would stay up all night long anchoring POS, I would log in during lectures in class to time stront, I did all of these ridiculous things without question and with no regrets. I wish there could ever be a space conflict so grand again, but I don't know that we'll ever see one. id speculate that the current war has more potential. CFC are going head to head with soco. Goons have pissed off a lot of high sec players,. CFC have to be mindful not to get into a trench war or they could find them self fighting a three ground war. Exciting times
Hahahaha you almost come off as if you know what you are talking about.
Soco is full of garbage, is currently ceding sov to us, rarely undocking with anything more damaging than stealth bombers (Honestly this is starting to look like IT Alliance part 2). The only chance they had in this war was a strong defense and holding the timers of all systems into euro TZ where we are arguably a lot weaker. Now if they want the space back they are going to have to fight in mid to late US prime... where they can't get the numbers to effectively fight us. The "War" has been mismanaged on their end in the extreme.
As far as pissing off highsec players... who cares? Only one or two groups in that entire morass of idiots could slap together a competent fleet composition. A well balanced 255 man fleet with the right logi and support will wipe the floor with whatever pubstar kitchen fleet garbage highsec could throw at us. But feel free to bring out all your officer fit ratting bhalgorns. I'll be sure to quake in my boots in my drake where half the modules were picked off of rats. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1148
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 03:56:00 -
[79] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Soco is full of garbage, is currently ceding sov to us, rarely undocking with anything more damaging than stealth bombers (Honestly this is starting to look like IT Alliance part 2). The only chance they had in this war was a strong defense and holding the timers of all systems into euro TZ where we are arguably a lot weaker. Now if they want the space back they are going to have to fight in mid to late US prime... where they can't get the numbers to effectively fight us. The "War" has been mismanaged on their end in the extreme.
Well I wouldn't worry because if all goes as planned we will be "tired" and pushing into a FOURTH region (-A-'s home) and their home has their timers and thus a great revers----
Actually no. Because we'll still be blobbing them. Delve is the new cobalt edge, SoCo is the new IRC.
Resistance is futile, we will farm your structure killmails and your comm leaks.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
462
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 04:09:00 -
[80] - Quote
No content.
Mods, please lock.
No-one cares anymore OP. Hate to break that to you, but....yeah.
In irae, veritas. |
|
|
Watooshi Makoochji
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 11:16:00 -
[81] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Watooshi Makoochji wrote:Propaganda or not, well written and very interesting James 315! However, your central premise, that Goons heroic resistance of BoB 'saved' the game, exemplified in the following quote Quote:Had the Goons retreated, or had BoB succeeded in its goal of defeating the RSF, it is no exaggeration to say that no one reading this thread would be playing EVE today. BoB's dream of total control of EVE would have been realized, but EVE would have died as a result. is baldly speculative and quite possibly grossly exaggerative. Certainly the history is fascinating, and I imagine that your version of it is a reasonably accurate and complete rendition. But stating in such an absolute way that "Goon's resistance" saved the day is over the top. This sort of rhetoric tends to arouse suspicion and mistrust among the levelheaded neutrals of the universe and seems likely to provide 'ammuntion' for your detractors. You did a good job of saving up and leaving the most outrageous hyperbole till that final paragraph. But I reckon your overall success at enthralling or beguiling your readers would've been strengthened had you simply said something like: "By refusing to retreat, and thwarting BoB in its goal of defeating the RSF, Goons certainly contributed decisively to the shape of the EVE online world today. One might even wonder aloud, 'If BoB's dream of total control of EVE had been realized, might EVE online have died as a result?" There you see? Now instead of making the speculative and empirically untestable _assertion_ that Goons are heroes who saved EVE from death as a game, you simply plant the question in your readers head as to whether Goons MIGHT be the hero See, the thing is BoB didn't have allies, they had pets. Basically *all* the "lol pets!" of today stems from what BoB did. You either did what BoB wanted, or they screwed you over with overwhelming numbers. The CFC on the other hand are allies of one another, and they don't have an Owner > pet relationship, such that BoB were famous for reveling in. By "saving EvE" James is talking about putting an end to a trend where the whole of EvE had two choices a) Sit in highsec b) Succumbto BoB's way of doing things. I feel it's an accurate assessment. An acute analogy might be to look at how Rome treated their Protectorate states, vs how a modern superpower treats an ally, for instance.
Mmm, fair enough. That rendition is a bit more believable. Though tbh I still am not wholly convinced. I conveyed the essence of this thread to some of the long-time players in my group (guys with 2004-2006 toons who have consistently been active). They were not particularly convinced.
Whoever are the brains behind Goons are clealry smart, innovative, passionate and strategically visionary guys/gals who appreciate the grand potentials of Imperial struggles in this game. What they have accomplished with this sandbox is truly quite remarkable, and defeating BoB was clearly part of that.
But, like modern Superpowers (even the relatively democratic ones) it seems pretty obvious that the Leadership of Goons would be happy to gobble up all of it if they are able . . . and who could really blame them? It is sandbox after all, and it would be remarkable if any single alliance did manage to envelope Empire and take sovereignty of it all!
That is where it gets interesting really: Goons are clearly NOT the only group who have smart, innovative, passionate and maybe even strategically visionary guys/gals in charge and I for one am really looking forward to another historic struggle. However, it turns out it seems likely to be epic. As with all great struggles the victors will 'write the history' as Goons has clearly sought to do in this instance.
The main incongruity that really hangs me up is this: CCP are clearly the smartest, most innovative, passioante and strategically visionary guys/gals of them all. After all it is THEIR game. I don't know anything about the publishers history except that there was a point a few years back where the game seems to have been in danger of extinction, and I'm not talking about this BoB-Goons struggle, but rather the period were lag was crippling the game.
In spite of being 'in control' of one of the most complex game ecologies ever and having devs/GMs/ISOs who MAY have been doing unauthorized things that damaged the game CCP has managed to keep it together and even seemingly herald in a new era for EVE Online.
If we are gonna salute Goons for having 'saved the game' from BoB (and by implication CCP) 'tyranny' and 'corruption,' then it seems to me we need to give an even bigger salute to CCP's subsequent leadership for having provided the evolving gameworld where it all takes place.
Maybe soon we will all be in a position to salute Goon's adversaries for having saved the game from "The Era of HulkaTerror" |
Watooshi Makoochji
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 11:26:00 -
[82] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote: Soco is full of garbage, is currently ceding sov to us, rarely undocking with anything more damaging than stealth bombers (Honestly this is starting to look like IT Alliance part 2). The only chance they had in this war was a strong defense and holding the timers of all systems into euro TZ where we are arguably a lot weaker. Now if they want the space back they are going to have to fight in mid to late US prime... where they can't get the numbers to effectively fight us. The "War" has been mismanaged on their end in the extreme.
As far as pissing off highsec players... who cares? Only one or two groups in that entire morass of idiots could slap together a competent fleet composition. A well balanced 255 man fleet with the right logi and support will wipe the floor with whatever pubstar kitchen fleet garbage highsec could throw at us. But feel free to bring out all your officer fit ratting bhalgorns. I'll be sure to quake in my boots in my drake where half the modules were picked off of rats.
Superlative trash talk! |
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
120
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 11:32:00 -
[83] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: If the (ohsobrokenforceprojection) Jump Bridges are up, it'll be a nice highway right to someone's front door.
You really master the art of twisting the blade into a wound. |
Lord Zim
981
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 11:34:00 -
[84] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:Zastrow wrote:I don't know that I'll ever be involved in anything as truly epic as The Great EVE war in any game, ever. Man those were golden days. On one hand EVE mechanics were so much worse than they are now, but the posting, the propaganda, the diplomacy, the shadow wars and spying... There were no holds barred and it was glorious. As Goonswarm's logistics director at the time I would stay up all night long anchoring POS, I would log in during lectures in class to time stront, I did all of these ridiculous things without question and with no regrets. I wish there could ever be a space conflict so grand again, but I don't know that we'll ever see one. id speculate that the current war has more potential. CFC are going head to head with soco. Goons have pissed off a lot of high sec players,. CFC have to be mindful not to get into a trench war or they could find them self fighting a three ground war. Exciting times Hahahaha you almost come off as if you know what you are talking about. Soco is full of garbage, is currently ceding sov to us, rarely undocking with anything more damaging than stealth bombers (Honestly this is starting to look like IT Alliance part 2). The only chance they had in this war was a strong defense and holding the timers of all systems into euro TZ where we are arguably a lot weaker. Now if they want the space back they are going to have to fight in mid to late US prime... where they can't get the numbers to effectively fight us. The "War" has been mismanaged on their end in the extreme.
The sad bit about this war is, it had the potential to be a truly epic war. Instead, -A- leadership has pissed away the opportunity by telling everyone to retreat back to NPC stain a mere 2 days after the initial declaration of war.
Even IT Alliance lasted at least for a few weeks before failure cascading, and they had to lose at least 2 systems before the resistence just fell away (I forget exactly how many they lost before internal tension caused the entire alliance to fail), and I'm going to just note that Raiden., which was a spinoff of IT Alliance after IT failurecascaded, held out a lot longer against a pretty relentles CFC assault, with 1/30th the number of people SoCo has.
All the blame for this sorry excuse of a war lies entirely with -A- leadership. This wasn't a failure of sov mechanics being a cockstab, this wasn't a problem of force projection, jumpbridges weren't being used to travel from VFK to the frontlines and back again every single day, this was -A- leadership being absolute trash which shouldn't be charged with leading a coalition (let alone an alliance or a corp) out of a wet paper bag. And everyone else in SoCo should reevaluate who should lead their coalition, and quickly, because there's been tons of line members in SoCo who have expressed a deep desire to actually fight.
They're just not allowed to by -A- leadership. |
Khanh'rhh
1374
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 13:27:00 -
[85] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:there's been tons of line members in SoCo who have expressed a deep desire to actually fight.
They're just not allowed to by -A- leadership
This is really the saddest thing.
-
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp
118
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 15:57:00 -
[86] - Quote
The Op missed a few key points in the history he brought up
1> BoB had a split in Goon swarm is formed
2> Alts in both alliances.
3> Goon leadership passed to the Mittens who also had additional powers granted to an alt of his within BoB
4> The mittens used said alt and stoled the alliance away from the command staff of BoB stealing EVERYTHING
5> The mittens ego is inflated to universal levels as he praised bringing down BoB
6> Many BoB toons sold on character Bazaar as they also buy new toons to hide within GOON Swarm
So i have to think about this some that the Plucky Hero Goon Swarm is in actuallity a wolf in sheeps clothing. and it has been noticed and said that Band of brothers has restarted once again. Check out Etherium reach on dotlan and see who they really are.
|
baltec1
1586
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 16:12:00 -
[87] - Quote
Meanwhile, Venal became the Afghanistan of EVE where large empires sent their fleets to die. |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
325
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 18:01:00 -
[88] - Quote
Excellent post!
This is the kind of reading that makes people want to play the game, as opposed to the typical reading material here lately. |
Amarra Mandalin
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 14:21:00 -
[89] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:The Op missed a few key points in the history he brought up
1> BoB had a split in Goon swarm is formed
2> Alts in both alliances.
3> Goon leadership passed to the Mittens who also had additional powers granted to an alt of his within BoB
4> The mittens used said alt and stoled the alliance away from the command staff of BoB stealing EVERYTHING
5> The mittens ego is inflated to universal levels as he praised bringing down BoB
6> Many BoB toons sold on character Bazaar as they also buy new toons to hide within GOON Swarm
So i have to think about this some that the Plucky Hero Goon Swarm is in actuallity a wolf in sheeps clothing. and it has been noticed and said that Band of brothers has restarted once again. Check out Etherium reach on dotlan and see who they really are.
Don't ya just feel sorry for the sheeples? It was good reading though. |
EvEa Deva
State War Academy
Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 14:36:00 -
[90] - Quote
Too much goon asskissery
moral of the story is ... keep devs out of the game. |
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Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
211
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 14:44:00 -
[91] - Quote
wow James, thanks for this history
I'm an American, English is my second language... |
Freezehunter
249
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 14:58:00 -
[92] - Quote
Beautiful.
Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 15:02:00 -
[93] - Quote
Not a single **** was given then and now. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1781
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 15:39:00 -
[94] - Quote
Nice read - one sided but nice.
I mainly disagree with these lines:
James 315 wrote:
Had the Goons retreated, or had BoB succeeded in its goal of defeating the RSF, it is no exaggeration to say that no one reading this thread would be playing EVE today. BoB's dream of total control of EVE would have been realized, but EVE would have died as a result. And at the time, most agreed that a BoB victory was the most likely outcome of the Great War.
Whilst goons certainly played their part in BoBs demise, BoB would have eventually killed itself, which is what actually happened.
Too many self-inflated egos, too many from the old guard leaving only to be replaced by individual winning team joiners or entire WTJ corps with even more self-inflated but less capable pompous twats as leaders.
BoB in its forming days consisted of highly creative and aggressive players and was actually a really good alliance - T20 or not - but they became fat which lead to a shift in its player base.
The interesting bit is that whilst goons have become the new bob in many ways, their corporate culture keeps them creative and 'fit' as an alliance.
And no - Eve wouldn't have died just as it doesn't die under CFC/OTEC dominance (lol Soco) - most of the playerbase never gave the tiniest feck about who rules Sov 0.0.
You know... morons. |
CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
38
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 15:49:00 -
[95] - Quote
TLDR
BOB controlled Eve. Devs left BOB. BOB died. Devs joined GOONS. GOONS control Eve. Some titan died. |
John Rando
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
Fatal Ascension
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 16:14:00 -
[96] - Quote
Very good read. |
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 17:05:00 -
[97] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:And no - Eve wouldn't have died just as it doesn't die under CFC/OTEC dominance (lol Soco) - most of the playerbase never gave the tiniest feck about who rules Sov 0.0.
it would have been dead inside though
GÇô postum faex est GÇô-á
never forget
|
Fatbottom Girl
State War Academy
Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:42:00 -
[98] - Quote
Let us all collectively give thanks to Goonswarm Federation for killing BoB, and subsequently killing their resurrected remains for years ever after. |
Mallak Azaria
506
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:45:00 -
[99] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:1> BoB had a split in Goon swarm is formed
2> Alts in both alliances.
3> Goon leadership passed to the Mittens who also had additional powers granted to an alt of his within BoB
4> The mittens used said alt and stoled the alliance away from the command staff of BoB stealing EVERYTHING
5> The mittens ego is inflated to universal levels as he praised bringing down BoB
6> Many BoB toons sold on character Bazaar as they also buy new toons to hide within GOON Swarm
It's all good & well to make stuff up in your head, just don't expect people to believe it.
Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Arkturus McFadden
Sonoran Shadow
Black Mesa Complex
142
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 21:46:00 -
[100] - Quote
A great history lesson
But my question is this..
Now that Goonswarm is systematically conquering region by region.. will the same happen to them? Time will only tell I suppose. |
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Information Agent
Apparently Miners
83
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 23:50:00 -
[101] - Quote
Arkturus McFadden wrote:A great history lesson But my question is this.. Now that Goonswarm is systematically conquering region by region.. will the same happen to them? Time will only tell I suppose.
Every Universe, real, imagined, synthetic or programmed are locked by their very nature into a cycle of birth, destruction and rebirth. When one entity is destroyed, another may be born, one reborn, weakened entities fade away or rebuild. Size can prolong the lifespan of an entity, or it can shorten its life expectancy.
One thing is assured though, nothing lasts forever, in any Universe.
One day, we may all be back in a similar thread, comparing the past conflicts and super alliances to a new threat. In the great turnover of super alliances, any alliance created in the past, present or future may one day be the new 'super alliance' that tries to take over everything.
Tbh I think it would be funny as **** if one day in the future we are all watching IRC take vast swathes of nullsec. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
565
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 00:42:00 -
[102] - Quote
EvEa Deva wrote:Too much goon asskissery
moral of the story is ... keep devs out of the game.
Given that the OP is probably an alt of Karttoom (or however it's spelt  ), then is that really such a surprise.
OP, why aren't you forum-banned yet again?
Why am I dreaming of some strange woman who keeps telling me, "You fail at life because you are cloaked?" |
James 315
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
2198
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 14:26:00 -
[103] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Given that the OP is probably an alt of Karttoom (or however it's spelt ), then is that really such a surprise. OP, why aren't you forum-banned yet again?
Any number of reasons, the most likely one being that I am not an alt of karttoon. I mean seriously, by now I've been accused of being the alt of half of EVE. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
309
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 14:53:00 -
[104] - Quote
Interesting to read your view point.. I don't agree with all your suppositions. and pontificating about a goon positive influence as if for the last 2 years it's been any different than living with bob for the tpyical player is laughable. Bob died of apathy.. and waneing positive leadership not so much of goon intrigue.. had the goon stayed in their own little corner of the internet and never come to eve bob would very likely still be gone today.
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
AdmiralJohn
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
39
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 16:07:00 -
[105] - Quote
Those were the glory days of Eve, back when men were men and women were BoB.
Nowadays there's no 'evil empire' to fight. All we have are -A-, and they're more of an 'incompetent empire'. They can't even hold a candle to the memory of BoB. |
Sarmea Moon
Universal Freelance
CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 17:10:00 -
[106] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:Interesting to read your view point.. I don't agree with all your suppositions. and pontificating about a goon positive influence as if for the last 2 years it's been any different than living with bob for the typical player is laughable. Bob died of apathy.. and waneing positive leadership not so much of goon intrigue.. Had the goon stayed in their own little corner of the internet and never come to eve bob would very likely still be gone today.
BoB was willing to stick around while they could lord it over EvE, but left when they were kicked to hisec. This is what separates BoB from Goonies. Yes, the goons are the special children of the internet. However, if their sov was turned off tomorrow, and someone stole their alliance name, would they fall? I think not.
Sure, I'm a little biased. I was part of Big Blue, and when the MC started with us, hired by BoB, I took it personally. I also helped set up a frigate fleet for the brand new goonies, most of whom couldn't even fly a cruiser at that point. They were continually jumping in to plant a jump clone and going home. That way, if we needed them, they'd come "for the lulz".
BoB treated them like dirty street kids on BoB's nice rugs. Now the dirty street kids own the rugs, without the BoB attitude. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
638
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 18:18:00 -
[107] - Quote
I miss having an enemy that isn't completely incompetent and laughable :(
Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1108
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 18:54:00 -
[108] - Quote
Have my babies James 315
never stop posting
. |
Denidil
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
372
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 19:08:00 -
[109] - Quote
Anna Djan wrote:"Those who don't learn from the past are destined to repeat it".
Goons = The new BoB.
not empty posting
If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |
Denidil
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
372
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 19:10:00 -
[110] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:I miss having an enemy that isn't completely incompetent and laughable :(
well.. based on what i'm looking at on the sov map i have a easy solution for you there
Reset FA
Reset Razor
Reset Test
If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1235
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 00:50:00 -
[111] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:I miss having an enemy that isn't completely incompetent and laughable :(
What about farming IRC
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 01:01:00 -
[112] - Quote
I was hoping to join BoB in the early days but i was fresh and i need to get some sp first the told me. When i was ready atleast i was thinking the that BoB aliance was gone from 1 day to the other everything shift now the are gone no corps nothing. Mis the old wars on youtube scoop post and that kind of stuff now every corps get there asses kick by goons. i hope there is corps that can do the same like BoB so i can join them.
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