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Don't nerf the dramiel; boost interceptors

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Number 17 Caldari COLD-Wing	Posted - 2010.04.09 23:53:00 - [31] +1 Faffy is a very respected inty pilot. Don't have any ideas on how to balance this, but i think something to do with ship role bonuses would do.
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 00:27:00 - [32] Originally by: Faffywaffy $DIETY forbid something new and unusual is suggested. We can only have more/less of the same on all ships. I bet the idea of scramblers turning off MWD seemed strange to you at first too (it did to me), but EVE didn't end, and in fact, is reasonably balanced. Yes, heaven forbid someone fit their ship differently, because its not like you flame people who don't fit the way you want them too. This is 2 days after this ---
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.10 00:59:00 - [33] Originally by: Number 17 Don't have any ideas on how to balance this, but i think something to do with ship role bonuses would do. Balance what exactly? That the Dramiel is awesome? What does have got to do with interceptor bonuses? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2010.04.10 01:05:00 - [34] There are other small ships that need alot more attention then interceptors - which can get a point from outside of large nuet range. EAF's? Need alot of attention. AF's? Need their 4th bonus. Destroyers? Smaller sig radius please. The dramiel is a frigate that has to go into large nuet range to get a point. It doesn't get a reduced signature radius. It doesn't approach 14km/s crow speed of the nano age. And an arty thrasher can put it down in a few rounds. Small ships need some love but fixing super cheap interceptors is not on top of the list.
MukkBarovian	Posted - 2010.04.10 01:29:00 - [35] Lo Faffy. Never chestbeat on forums. If you do link battleclinic. But people will laugh at you even if battleclinic plays trumpet music while proclaiming that noone will ever match your awesomeness and fluffy white clouds fly in the background. That said Faffy is right in one thing. Interceptors have a much more limited role in serious fleet combat than they have had in a long time. You need a couple to tackle small ships that run into you while roaming. You need them possible to catch enemy straglers and grab enemy ships when they begin to flee a battlefield. Thats pretty much it.
Braitai Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2010.04.10 01:48:00 - [36] I agree with the OP, in fact I'll go one step further and say that most frigates are in need of a boost. The Dramiel is not OP. Yes, it can comfortably tackle most solo cruisers and even kill them given enough time, but put two cruisers together 15km apart and it'll die very quickly. The bigger the gang, the less effect speed and sig have on survivability. If a frigate is expected to survive in neut/web/scram range it requires an AB, and either a nos or at least a cap booster. Most frigates simply do not have enough slots to counter the basic anti frigate defenses most cruisers have. Without order nothing can exist. Without chaos nothing can evolve.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 03:14:00 - [37] Originally by: MukkBarovian Lo Faffy. Never chestbeat on forums. I didn't think he was chest beating - like he said he was just preventing an appeal to authority. Sadly it didn't matter, because it was perceived as chest beating. I will say that Faffy's a great frig pilot. I will also say that piloting frigs is sufficiently different from piloting other ships that it requires different player skills. Trying to discredit his opinions on frigs because he uses frig fitting/piloting techniques for bigger ships is a bit silly. I further say I don't have any solid opinions on frigs, except that most of them suck unnecessarily (tier system). Even most of the T2 frigs rather suck, and that the biggest culprits (IMO) are unnecessarily low lock range and unnecessarily gimped fittings. Frigs should be able to fit a full T2 fit without fitting mods. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Darthewok State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.04.10 04:08:00 - [38] Edited by: Darthewok on 10/04/2010 04:14:05 OFFICIAL DRAMIEL HAS JUMPED THE SHARK ANNOUNCEMENT multiple dramiel threads every day, dramiels everywhere in 0.0 and FW, unkillable WCSed-dramiels, dramiels to #!@# autopilot R&D missions, dramiel point calculation messing up killboards... enough is enough... CCP plse nerf the bleeding thing already. dramielization has turned the frig combat world into a circus. i miss the times when people keep arguing which is the top frig among many choices instead of now just arguing dramiel vs anti-dramiel.
Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2010.04.10 04:22:00 - [39] Originally by: Darthewok ...messing up killboards... Yeah if you want to do well on battleclinic you should be flying a Cynabal or Dramiel.
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 04:26:00 - [40] Originally by: Slidepot lol all you want, Faffy is serious light ship business... http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=faffywaffy http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=raimo that comparison is lol... in faffy's favor.. Are you sure? Let's look at the last 6 months... http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Raimo http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/faffywaffy Thanks for playing, try again! ;) ]
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 04:33:00 - [41] Originally by: Raimo Are you sure? Let's look at the last 6 months... http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Raimo http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/faffywaffy Thanks for playing, try again! ;) Eve-Arena doesn't have a huge number of my own kills over the last 6 months. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 04:38:00 - [42] Originally by: Faffywaffy $DIETY forbid something new and unusual is suggested. We can only have more/less of the same on all ships. I bet the idea of scramblers turning off MWD seemed strange to you at first too (it did to me), but EVE didn't end, and in fact, is reasonably balanced. Now, I do think the idea needs to be thought through, but I also think it's an idea that can make things quite interesting without anything being overpowered (inties can still scram other inties; larger ships can still neut/web inties if they're in scram range). Well it would need some serious thinking through to make it work(an understatement), how would you go about solving the Ceptors vs AF/EAF/Faction/T1 frigate tackling issue you would create out of thin air? ]
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 04:52:00 - [43] Edited by: Raimo on 10/04/2010 04:52:30 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Raimo Are you sure? Let's look at the last 6 months... http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Raimo http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/faffywaffy Thanks for playing, try again! ;) Eve-Arena doesn't have a huge number of my own kills over the last 6 months. -Liang You can remedy that by submitting a killboard for syncing as long as it's one that supports it, like EDK boards... Though AFAIK it should have most kills (currently no podmails though) stored on EVE-Kill since the start of 2007 as well as on many major private boards anyway... Not BC though because they don't support syncing. API verification and podmails should be coming soonish btw, and he might be importing kills older than 2007 after all. ]
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:04:00 - [44] Originally by: Raimo You can remedy that by submitting a killboard for syncing as long as it's one that supports it, like EDK boards... Though AFAIK it should have most kills (currently no podmails though) stored on EVE-Kill since the start of 2007 as well as on many major private boards anyway... Not BC though because they don't support syncing. API verification and podmails should be coming soonish btw, and he might be importing kills older than 2007 after all. It doesn't have any kills for Liang.... even though Battleclinic (and EDK) have tons. And even both of those are rather quiet considering we (purposefully) didn't have our killboard sync'ing. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:10:00 - [45] Originally by: Liang Nuren It doesn't have any kills for Liang.... even though Battleclinic (and EDK) have tons. And even both of those are rather quiet considering we (purposefully) didn't have our killboard sync'ing. -Liang ? http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Liang+Nuren ]
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:16:00 - [46] Originally by: Raimo Originally by: Liang Nuren It doesn't have any kills for Liang.... even though Battleclinic (and EDK) have tons. And even both of those are rather quiet considering we (purposefully) didn't have our killboard sync'ing. -Liang ? http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Liang+Nuren Yes because I have one kill. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:21:00 - [47] Originally by: Liang Nuren ? http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Liang+Nuren Yes because I have one kill. -Liang In the last month. Scroll encounters to see that you in fact have more kills. (That "last month" stat by itself is a bit silly IMHO but he has promised to implement the "all time" number back :P ) ]
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:23:00 - [48] Originally by: Raimo In the last month. Scroll encounters to see that you in fact have more kills. (That "last month" stat by itself is a bit silly IMHO but he has promised to implement the "all time" number back :P ) Except that I have way more than that... even in the last month. My point here is that Eve Arena looks awesome.... but it is severely lacking in actual kills. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:38:00 - [49] Edited by: Raimo on 10/04/2010 05:39:15 Originally by: Liang Nuren Except that I have way more than that... even in the last month. My point here is that Eve Arena looks awesome.... but it is severely lacking in actual kills. Originally by: Raimo You can remedy that by submitting a killboard for syncing as long as it's one that supports it, like EDK boards... For many people it's not lacking in killmails at all. Instead of dismissing it, help it out and figure out a killboard it should sync with and submit it, it's still in public beta after all! - I'm sure E-A rank linking will become more prevalent in the future in addition to BC ranks, so if you have e-bushido to defend it's your own responsibility to ensure E-A is accurate on your part (Even though it's all very silly of course) (And in response to your ed: I didn't start the e-bushido wars this time, also see above) -----------------------------------------------
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:43:00 - [50] Originally by: Raimo (And in response to your ed: I didn't start the e-bushido wars this time, also see above) Yeah, but I really like Liang being effectively anonymous on killboards though! Anyway, no - I really really think E-A is really sweet. I'd almost like to help work on it. I figure I might be able to help, since data warehousing actually my job. :p I just don't like killboards and e-bushido. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:49:00 - [51] Hehe. Btw, no need to spam E-A with sync requests for Mentlegen's Club, I submitted their board for syncing just in case to defend Faffy's E-BUSHIDO :P -----------------------------------------------
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:54:00 - [52] Originally by: Raimo Hehe. Btw, no need to spam E-A with sync requests for Mentlegen's Club, I submitted their board for syncing just in case to defend Faffy's E-BUSHIDO :P -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
rubico1337 Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises	Posted - 2010.04.10 06:29:00 - [53] Originally by: Faffywaffy I'm going to start with a little appeal to authority to hopefully prevent the "You fail; learn how to fly ceptors" replies. I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. I have a lot of experience flying them both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles. Check the killboard(s). all credibility = lost Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.
Inch Allah	Posted - 2010.04.10 06:31:00 - [54] Originally by: Omara Otawan Originally by: Slidepot lol all you want, Faffy is serious light ship business... http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=faffywaffy http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=raimo that comparison is lol... in faffy's favor.. Sorry Back on Topic.. Just goes to show how hilariously easy it is to farm battleclinic rank by ganking lollerfit BCs and BSs in frig/cruiser size ships. ... . Says the guy with zero kills and four losses on Battleclinic. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Omara+Otawan[/url] Post with your main perhaps? Also, please share with us ways to avoid pewpewing "lollerfit BCs and BSs." Perhaps you run a ship scanner and run the other way when you see that they are "lollerfit?"
Inch Allah	Posted - 2010.04.10 07:10:00 - [55] I too have nothing to say about the OP. Originally by: Raimo Originally by: Slidepot lol all you want, Faffy is serious light ship business... http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=faffywaffy http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=raimo that comparison is lol... in faffy's favor.. Are you sure? Let's look at the last 6 months... http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Raimo http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/faffywaffy Thanks for playing, try again! ;) Sorry Raimo, Faffy's KB stats are better than yours by a wide margin. If you don't like Battleclinic, use your own alliance killboards: http://www.gentlemen-in-space.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=39105 http://hydra.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=155807 Pulling some weird killboard out of your arse that it seems even Liang(!) didn't know had existed up until now proves nothing. Originally by: Raimo Are you sure? Let's look at the last 6 months... <...> Btw, why "the last 6 months?" Why not the last six years or the last six minutes? Originally by: Suitonia Originally by: Faffywaffy $DIETY forbid something new and unusual is suggested. We can only have more/less of the same on all ships. I bet the idea of scramblers turning off MWD seemed strange to you at first too (it did to me), but EVE didn't end, and in fact, is reasonably balanced. Yes, heaven forbid someone fit their ship differently, because its not like you flame people who don't fit the way you want them too. <...> Thanks Suitonia, I think this just might explain Raimo's grudge.
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.10 07:44:00 - [56] Raimo has no grudge - but it explains what an arrogant tool Faffy is. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Darthewok State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.04.10 07:48:00 - [57] Edited by: Darthewok on 10/04/2010 07:55:48 Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Originally by: Darthewok ...messing up killboards... Yeah if you want to do well on battleclinic you should be flying a Cynabal or Dramiel. just so people know how broken this is. faction/pirate stuff is not differentiated from their T1 equivalents though they are way way way more powerful. eg. dramiel >>>>> rifter but is treated like one for scoring. people should realize that many a high BC ranking of late has been built on the back of this broken killpoint scoring of dramiels and cynabals. eg. when a jaguar kills a dramiel it is awarded 8 points, as if the dramiel was nothing more than a rifter. when a dramiel kills a jaguar it is awarded 50 points, as if it did something particularly great which it did not. 6.5 times the points difference. i leave it to you to figure out how much 50-100 dramiel/cynabal kills would skew a ranking upward artificially. just so everyone knows.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 08:06:00 - [58] Originally by: Inch Allah Pulling some weird killboard out of your arse that it seems even Liang(!) didn't know had existed up until now proves nothing. I know about it. I was thinking of using it for my corp's new killboard until I tried to post a few pos modules that we took down and it barfed. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.10 08:14:00 - [59] Originally by: Darthewok Edited by: Darthewok on 10/04/2010 08:09:40 Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Originally by: Darthewok ...messing up killboards... Yeah if you want to do well on battleclinic you should be flying a Cynabal or Dramiel. just so people know how broken this is. faction/pirate stuff is not differentiated from their T1 equivalents though they are way way way more powerful. eg. dramiel >>>>> rifter but is treated like one for scoring. people should realize that many a high BC ranking of late has been built on the back of this broken killpoint scoring of dramiels and cynabals. eg. when a jaguar kills a dramiel it is awarded 8 points, as if the dramiel was nothing more than a rifter. when a dramiel kills a jaguar it is awarded 50 points, as if it did something particularly great which it did not. 6.5 times the points difference. i leave it to you to figure out how much 50-100 kills using a dramiel/cynabal would skew a ranking upward artificially. just so everyone knows why so many of the dramiel defenders are secretly so desperate to hold on to it. Just so everyone knows why Darthewok is so bitter: He's terrible at EVE. Your entire post is pretty much ruined by the fact that Caelum (creator of EVE-Arena) is fixing the point values for faction ships in the next overhaul. As per many people from Genos' request. You sure look silly now. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Darthewok State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.04.10 08:16:00 - [60] good. mission accomplished. you have committed him to it verbally. you sure are gullible.

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