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Faffywaffy
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Posted - 2010.04.09 17:38:00 -
[1]
I'm going to start with a little appeal to authority to hopefully prevent the "You fail; learn how to fly ceptors" replies. I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. I have a lot of experience flying them both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles. Check the killboard(s).
For the purpose of this discussion we will assume that the dramiel is indeed overpowered in comparison to all interceptors. There are a few circumstances where a ceptor is better than a dramiel, but these occur infrequently. In the main two interceptor roles (tackle and anti-ceptor), the dramiel outclasses them. It used to be a game of rock-paper-scissors; now it's dramiel beats all. When I fit one for soloing, the only purpose to the fit is "How do I beat other dramiels" because I know it will beat anything else regardless.
I would like to argue that interceptors, in their role of tackling larger ships, are underpowered. A competent pilot may hold on to a single hostile cruiser/battlecruiser/battleship until backup arrives, but if you make it two ships, the lifespan of the ceptor is measured in seconds. In medium sized fleet fights interceptors are almost completely useless. Competent FCs will have them instapopped whenever they get anywhere within range. The pilot is then left with two choices - engage hostile ceptors away from the main engagement or wait for the fight to be almost over and tackle any hostiles trying to run away (assuming you won). Some of the best FCs I fought against (hint: they live in Curse, not far from HLW) employ no interceptors at all in the "main" engagement.
So, instead of nerfing the dramiel, I propose boosting interceptors so they can perform their primary role (tackling) much better. There are a few ways to do that. One that I've contemplated is to get rid of the MWD sigradius penalty completely and reduce mass to dramiel levels. Another option is to decrease powergrid requirements on MWD/AB to make dual-prop fits viable on all tackler interceptors. I'd love to hear other ideas.
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Lallaallaa
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Posted - 2010.04.09 18:14:00 -
[2]
Why don't you fly some more scram Cynabals about it? |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.09 18:25:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/04/2010 18:27:15
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/04/2010 18:26:37
Interceptors are fine. It used to cost money to make your interceptor safe from virtually everything, you know. Now it's very safe in comparison with default T2 stuff, and interceptors are rather cheap (read: cost about as much as a properly - meaning T2 where it counts - cruiser, maybe a tad more or less depending on cruiser).
Today's interceptor is the equivalent of the old 14.000m/s interceptor when we talk about tracking. I'd say that is enough.
Also, Dramiels are easier to hit at 20-ish km orbits, since they get all the beautiful effects of sig bloom from a MWD.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.09 18:30:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Poses on 09/04/2010 18:31:05
only really useful in sniper fleets (hac or BS) even then will get BBQd if you don't land right on top of them... in all other cases I'd rather have a dictor or another BS/BC/HAC since they fit tackle too...
I'd argue that they have no role at all, and i don't see how your proposed update would change that.
*notice: okay you can dog fight with them, but it the enemy has no intys you have no role*
edited for typo
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.09 18:33:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Poses
I'd argue that they have no role at all, and i don't see how your proposed update would change that.
They have a role outside of the situations you consider?
The only way to make it have the role some people want is to basically make them invulnerable and that doesn't work, really.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Faffywaffy
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Posted - 2010.04.09 18:40:00 -
[6]
Another idea: meke interceptors immune to the secondary effect of warp scramblers (unless employed by an interceptor).
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Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.04.09 19:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Faffywaffy
Another idea: meke interceptors immune to the secondary effect of warp scramblers (unless employed by an interceptor).
What, EVE Online: Nano Age 2.0 ???
You would have the same problem you had before, only at half the speed, and then on top of that, you'd make Interceptors the new Falcon or Vagabond.
Ugh. Didn't we have enough non-fighting with nano previously? The last thing we need is to encourage people to NOT engage in combat or exclusively fly ships that allow them to choose on a whim whether they continue to engage or withdraw not based on whether they even have the choice to or not, but solely based on the fact that their ship can simply MWD away whenever they feel like it. Sound familiar?
{...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness} |
Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.09 19:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Faffywaffy
I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve.
Laughing my ass off here
- The idea in the OP however does have some merit (the 2nd scram one is just plain idiotic), the balance of dramiels vs other faction & T2 frigates is somewhat off, I have to agree. But it is not just tackling ceptors that would need to be looked at, and Dram could still be toned down *slightly*, especially for the LR tackle role.
Though, still laughing. (And posting with my main :D )
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Psyflame
North Eastern Swat
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Posted - 2010.04.09 20:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Faffywaffy
I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve.
3/10 for humor.
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Hurtado Soneka
Caldari
Costolle Military Assistance Corporation
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Posted - 2010.04.09 20:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Faffywaffy
I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
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Nyx Opet
Caldari
NibbleTek
The Darwin Award Foundation
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Posted - 2010.04.09 21:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Faffywaffy
I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve.
i lol'd
dram needs a minor nerf, nothing more tbh.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.09 21:10:00 -
[12]
When you want to bring everything to level of dramiel, you got some other things besides interceptors that would need boosting.
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Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.09 21:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
They have a role outside of the situations you consider?
The only way to make it have the role some people want is to basically make them invulnerable and that doesn't work, really.
Don't really wanna start a flame war but... can you name those situations? where it would be better to have an inty then a dictor or another fleet ship. Because honestly i can't.
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Sub Trader
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Posted - 2010.04.09 21:20:00 -
[14]
return nano ships :)
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korrey
Amarr
Explosive Realities
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Posted - 2010.04.09 21:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Poses
Originally by: Cpt Branko
They have a role outside of the situations you consider?
The only way to make it have the role some people want is to basically make them invulnerable and that doesn't work, really.
Don't really wanna start a flame war but... can you name those situations? where it would be better to have an inty then a dictor or another fleet ship. Because honestly i can't.
When running from a Dramiel
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Amarr- If you like to handicap yourself before the fight begins, then we may accomodate your needs surprisingly well. |
Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Discord.
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Posted - 2010.04.09 21:20:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Mahke on 09/04/2010 21:25:34
Originally by: Faffywaffy
I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. I have a lot of experience flying them both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles. Check the killboard(s).
I am one of the best forum pilots in Eve. I have lots of experience posting both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles (except logging in). Check the board(s).
edit: derf nramiel
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.04.09 21:53:00 -
[17]
2003-2010 - dramiel worthless piece of crap that you couldn't find a good fit for
2010- dramiel awesome (maybe too awesome?)
nerf the dramiel.... in 2017 
"A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game." |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.09 22:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mahke
I am one of the best forum pilots in Eve. I have lots of experience posting both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles (except logging in). Check the board(s).
Dude. I checked your forum PVP record on EVE-Search. You haven't even hit 1000 posts.
OMG N00b.
(I also think the Dramiel needs to be nerfed somewhat...but not dramatically.)
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.04.09 22:09:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Seriously Bored
Dude. I checked your forum PVP record on EVE-Search. You haven't even hit 1000 posts.
OMG N00b.
(I also think the Dramiel needs to be nerfed somewhat...but not dramatically.)
1000 posts is pretty baller. :)
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2010.04.09 22:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Poses
Originally by: Cpt Branko
They have a role outside of the situations you consider?
The only way to make it have the role some people want is to basically make them invulnerable and that doesn't work, really.
Don't really wanna start a flame war but... can you name those situations? where it would be better to have an inty then a dictor or another fleet ship. Because honestly i can't.
Surprisingly there is PvP outside 0.0, where you can't bubble people.
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081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Captain Nares
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Posted - 2010.04.09 22:21:00 -
[21]
Why only intys? Intys, AFs and EAFs.
And future T3 frigates need to be zomgpwnmobilepvpmostersfdoom to match the dram.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Discord.
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Posted - 2010.04.09 22:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Captain Nares
EAFs.
Sentinel is decent and I think I might have seen someone flying a hyena once.
Clearly they have to be nerfed down to match the rest of the class.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.04.09 22:33:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mahke
Sentinel is decent
That's pushing it. A lot.
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Discord.
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Posted - 2010.04.09 22:38:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Mahke
Sentinel is decent
That's pushing it. A lot.
-Liang
Okay, it's not decent at all for its cost but in theory there's some price point at which I'd fly it.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.04.09 22:41:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mahke
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Mahke
Sentinel is decent
That's pushing it. A lot.
-Liang
Okay, it's not decent at all for its cost but in theory there's some price point at which I'd fly it.
Alright I'll take that.
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Slidepot
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Posted - 2010.04.09 22:44:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Raimo
Originally by: Faffywaffy
I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve.
Laughing my ass off here
- The idea in the OP however does have some merit (the 2nd scram one is just plain idiotic), the balance of dramiels vs other faction & T2 frigates is somewhat off, I have to agree. But it is not just tackling ceptors that would need to be looked at, and Dram could still be toned down *slightly*, especially for the LR tackle role.
Though, still laughing. (And posting with my main :D )
lol all you want, Faffy is serious light ship business...
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=faffywaffy
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=raimo
that comparison is lol... in faffy's favor..
Sorry Back on Topic..
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.04.09 23:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Slidepot
lol all you want, Faffy is serious light ship business...
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=faffywaffy
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=raimo
that comparison is lol... in faffy's favor..
Sorry Back on Topic..
Just goes to show how hilariously easy it is to farm battleclinic rank by ganking lollerfit BCs and BSs in frig/cruiser size ships.
NOSing warp scrambling Vagabonds make me a sad panda tbh.
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Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.09 23:05:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Poses on 09/04/2010 23:05:34
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Surprisingly there is PvP outside 0.0, where you can't bubble people.
yes there is, but who would use an inty in low sec (other then soling other inty's which of course isn't really a role)
lets see, you almost never see snipers in low sec, so the fleet ships can tackle them. you aren't gonna use it for piracy (sentry guns and sensor boosted hics).
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Faffywaffy
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Posted - 2010.04.09 23:07:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Raimo
Originally by: Faffywaffy
I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve.
(the 2nd scram one is just plain idiotic)
$DIETY forbid something new and unusual is suggested. We can only have more/less of the same on all ships. I bet the idea of scramblers turning off MWD seemed strange to you at first too (it did to me), but EVE didn't end, and in fact, is reasonably balanced.
Now, I do think the idea needs to be thought through, but I also think it's an idea that can make things quite interesting without anything being overpowered (inties can still scram other inties; larger ships can still neut/web inties if they're in scram range).
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.04.09 23:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Poses
yes there is, but who would use an inty in low sec (other then soling other inty's which of course isn't really a role)
lets see, you almost never see snipers in low sec, so the fleet ships can tackle them. you aren't gonna use it for piracy (sentry guns and sensor boosted hics).
There is this thing called faction warfare, inties are quite commonly used there.
Also, while dictors have their use, I'd have inties as forward scouts over a dictor any day in 0.0, not to mention they got these nifty things like extended warp disruptor range, cap usage bonus as well as increased warp speed (-> hyperspatial rigs are your friend).
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