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Faffywaffy	Posted - 2010.04.09 17:38:00 - [1] I'm going to start with a little appeal to authority to hopefully prevent the "You fail; learn how to fly ceptors" replies. I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. I have a lot of experience flying them both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles. Check the killboard(s). For the purpose of this discussion we will assume that the dramiel is indeed overpowered in comparison to all interceptors. There are a few circumstances where a ceptor is better than a dramiel, but these occur infrequently. In the main two interceptor roles (tackle and anti-ceptor), the dramiel outclasses them. It used to be a game of rock-paper-scissors; now it's dramiel beats all. When I fit one for soloing, the only purpose to the fit is "How do I beat other dramiels" because I know it will beat anything else regardless. I would like to argue that interceptors, in their role of tackling larger ships, are underpowered. A competent pilot may hold on to a single hostile cruiser/battlecruiser/battleship until backup arrives, but if you make it two ships, the lifespan of the ceptor is measured in seconds. In medium sized fleet fights interceptors are almost completely useless. Competent FCs will have them instapopped whenever they get anywhere within range. The pilot is then left with two choices - engage hostile ceptors away from the main engagement or wait for the fight to be almost over and tackle any hostiles trying to run away (assuming you won). Some of the best FCs I fought against (hint: they live in Curse, not far from HLW) employ no interceptors at all in the "main" engagement. So, instead of nerfing the dramiel, I propose boosting interceptors so they can perform their primary role (tackling) much better. There are a few ways to do that. One that I've contemplated is to get rid of the MWD sigradius penalty completely and reduce mass to dramiel levels. Another option is to decrease powergrid requirements on MWD/AB to make dual-prop fits viable on all tackler interceptors. I'd love to hear other ideas.
Lallaallaa	Posted - 2010.04.09 18:14:00 - [2] Why don't you fly some more scram Cynabals about it?
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.09 18:25:00 - [3] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/04/2010 18:27:15 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/04/2010 18:26:37 Interceptors are fine. It used to cost money to make your interceptor safe from virtually everything, you know. Now it's very safe in comparison with default T2 stuff, and interceptors are rather cheap (read: cost about as much as a properly - meaning T2 where it counts - cruiser, maybe a tad more or less depending on cruiser). Today's interceptor is the equivalent of the old 14.000m/s interceptor when we talk about tracking. I'd say that is enough. Also, Dramiels are easier to hit at 20-ish km orbits, since they get all the beautiful effects of sig bloom from a MWD. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Poses	Posted - 2010.04.09 18:30:00 - [4] Edited by: Poses on 09/04/2010 18:31:05 only really useful in sniper fleets (hac or BS) even then will get BBQd if you don't land right on top of them... in all other cases I'd rather have a dictor or another BS/BC/HAC since they fit tackle too... I'd argue that they have no role at all, and i don't see how your proposed update would change that. notice: okay you can dog fight with them, but it the enemy has no intys you have no role edited for typo
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.09 18:33:00 - [5] Originally by: Poses I'd argue that they have no role at all, and i don't see how your proposed update would change that. They have a role outside of the situations you consider? The only way to make it have the role some people want is to basically make them invulnerable and that doesn't work, really. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2010.04.09 18:40:00 - [6] Another idea: meke interceptors immune to the secondary effect of warp scramblers (unless employed by an interceptor).
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.04.09 19:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Faffywaffy Another idea: meke interceptors immune to the secondary effect of warp scramblers (unless employed by an interceptor). What, EVE Online: Nano Age 2.0 ??? You would have the same problem you had before, only at half the speed, and then on top of that, you'd make Interceptors the new Falcon or Vagabond. Ugh. Didn't we have enough non-fighting with nano previously? The last thing we need is to encourage people to NOT engage in combat or exclusively fly ships that allow them to choose on a whim whether they continue to engage or withdraw not based on whether they even have the choice to or not, but solely based on the fact that their ship can simply MWD away whenever they feel like it. Sound familiar? {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.09 19:38:00 - [8] Originally by: Faffywaffy I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. Laughing my ass off here - The idea in the OP however does have some merit (the 2nd scram one is just plain idiotic), the balance of dramiels vs other faction & T2 frigates is somewhat off, I have to agree. But it is not just tackling ceptors that would need to be looked at, and Dram could still be toned down slightly, especially for the LR tackle role. Though, still laughing. (And posting with my main :D ) ]
Psyflame North Eastern Swat	Posted - 2010.04.09 20:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Faffywaffy I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. 3/10 for humor.
Hurtado Soneka Caldari Costolle Military Assistance Corporation	Posted - 2010.04.09 20:58:00 - [10] Originally by: Faffywaffy I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. HAHAHAHAHAHA
Nyx Opet Caldari NibbleTek The Darwin Award Foundation	Posted - 2010.04.09 21:04:00 - [11] Originally by: Faffywaffy I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. i lol'd dram needs a minor nerf, nothing more tbh.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.09 21:10:00 - [12] When you want to bring everything to level of dramiel, you got some other things besides interceptors that would need boosting.
Poses	Posted - 2010.04.09 21:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Cpt Branko They have a role outside of the situations you consider? The only way to make it have the role some people want is to basically make them invulnerable and that doesn't work, really. Don't really wanna start a flame war but... can you name those situations? where it would be better to have an inty then a dictor or another fleet ship. Because honestly i can't.
Sub Trader	Posted - 2010.04.09 21:20:00 - [14] return nano ships :)
korrey Amarr Explosive Realities	Posted - 2010.04.09 21:20:00 - [15] Originally by: Poses Originally by: Cpt Branko They have a role outside of the situations you consider? The only way to make it have the role some people want is to basically make them invulnerable and that doesn't work, really. Don't really wanna start a flame war but... can you name those situations? where it would be better to have an inty then a dictor or another fleet ship. Because honestly i can't. When running from a Dramiel ----------- Amarr- If you like to handicap yourself before the fight begins, then we may accomodate your needs surprisingly well.
Mahke Aeon Of Strife Discord.	Posted - 2010.04.09 21:20:00 - [16] Edited by: Mahke on 09/04/2010 21:25:34 Originally by: Faffywaffy I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. I have a lot of experience flying them both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles. Check the killboard(s). I am one of the best forum pilots in Eve. I have lots of experience posting both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles (except logging in). Check the board(s). edit: derf nramiel
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.04.09 21:53:00 - [17] 2003-2010 - dramiel worthless piece of crap that you couldn't find a good fit for 2010- dramiel awesome (maybe too awesome?) nerf the dramiel.... in 2017 "A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game."
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.09 22:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Mahke I am one of the best forum pilots in Eve. I have lots of experience posting both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles (except logging in). Check the board(s). Dude. I checked your forum PVP record on EVE-Search. You haven't even hit 1000 posts. OMG N00b. (I also think the Dramiel needs to be nerfed somewhat...but not dramatically.)
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.09 22:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Seriously Bored Dude. I checked your forum PVP record on EVE-Search. You haven't even hit 1000 posts. OMG N00b. (I also think the Dramiel needs to be nerfed somewhat...but not dramatically.) 1000 posts is pretty baller. :) -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2010.04.09 22:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Poses Originally by: Cpt Branko They have a role outside of the situations you consider? The only way to make it have the role some people want is to basically make them invulnerable and that doesn't work, really. Don't really wanna start a flame war but... can you name those situations? where it would be better to have an inty then a dictor or another fleet ship. Because honestly i can't. Surprisingly there is PvP outside 0.0, where you can't bubble people. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog
Captain Nares	Posted - 2010.04.09 22:21:00 - [21] Why only intys? Intys, AFs and EAFs. And future T3 frigates need to be zomgpwnmobilepvpmostersfdoom to match the dram.
Mahke Aeon Of Strife Discord.	Posted - 2010.04.09 22:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Captain Nares EAFs. Sentinel is decent and I think I might have seen someone flying a hyena once. Clearly they have to be nerfed down to match the rest of the class.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.09 22:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Mahke Sentinel is decent That's pushing it. A lot. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Mahke Aeon Of Strife Discord.	Posted - 2010.04.09 22:38:00 - [24] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Mahke Sentinel is decent That's pushing it. A lot. -Liang Okay, it's not decent at all for its cost but in theory there's some price point at which I'd fly it.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.09 22:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Mahke Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Mahke Sentinel is decent That's pushing it. A lot. -Liang Okay, it's not decent at all for its cost but in theory there's some price point at which I'd fly it. Alright I'll take that. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Slidepot	Posted - 2010.04.09 22:44:00 - [26] Originally by: Raimo Originally by: Faffywaffy I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. Laughing my ass off here - The idea in the OP however does have some merit (the 2nd scram one is just plain idiotic), the balance of dramiels vs other faction & T2 frigates is somewhat off, I have to agree. But it is not just tackling ceptors that would need to be looked at, and Dram could still be toned down slightly, especially for the LR tackle role. Though, still laughing. (And posting with my main :D ) lol all you want, Faffy is serious light ship business... http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=faffywaffy http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=raimo that comparison is lol... in faffy's favor.. Sorry Back on Topic..
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.04.09 23:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Slidepot lol all you want, Faffy is serious light ship business... http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=faffywaffy http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=raimo that comparison is lol... in faffy's favor.. Sorry Back on Topic.. Just goes to show how hilariously easy it is to farm battleclinic rank by ganking lollerfit BCs and BSs in frig/cruiser size ships. NOSing warp scrambling Vagabonds make me a sad panda tbh.
Poses	Posted - 2010.04.09 23:05:00 - [28] Edited by: Poses on 09/04/2010 23:05:34 Originally by: Lubomir Penev Surprisingly there is PvP outside 0.0, where you can't bubble people. yes there is, but who would use an inty in low sec (other then soling other inty's which of course isn't really a role) lets see, you almost never see snipers in low sec, so the fleet ships can tackle them. you aren't gonna use it for piracy (sentry guns and sensor boosted hics).
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2010.04.09 23:07:00 - [29] Originally by: Raimo Originally by: Faffywaffy I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. (the 2nd scram one is just plain idiotic) $DIETY forbid something new and unusual is suggested. We can only have more/less of the same on all ships. I bet the idea of scramblers turning off MWD seemed strange to you at first too (it did to me), but EVE didn't end, and in fact, is reasonably balanced. Now, I do think the idea needs to be thought through, but I also think it's an idea that can make things quite interesting without anything being overpowered (inties can still scram other inties; larger ships can still neut/web inties if they're in scram range).
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.04.09 23:12:00 - [30] Originally by: Poses yes there is, but who would use an inty in low sec (other then soling other inty's which of course isn't really a role) lets see, you almost never see snipers in low sec, so the fleet ships can tackle them. you aren't gonna use it for piracy (sentry guns and sensor boosted hics). There is this thing called faction warfare, inties are quite commonly used there. Also, while dictors have their use, I'd have inties as forward scouts over a dictor any day in 0.0, not to mention they got these nifty things like extended warp disruptor range, cap usage bonus as well as increased warp speed (-> hyperspatial rigs are your friend).
Number 17 Caldari COLD-Wing	Posted - 2010.04.09 23:53:00 - [31] +1 Faffy is a very respected inty pilot. Don't have any ideas on how to balance this, but i think something to do with ship role bonuses would do.
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 00:27:00 - [32] Originally by: Faffywaffy $DIETY forbid something new and unusual is suggested. We can only have more/less of the same on all ships. I bet the idea of scramblers turning off MWD seemed strange to you at first too (it did to me), but EVE didn't end, and in fact, is reasonably balanced. Yes, heaven forbid someone fit their ship differently, because its not like you flame people who don't fit the way you want them too. This is 2 days after this ---
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.10 00:59:00 - [33] Originally by: Number 17 Don't have any ideas on how to balance this, but i think something to do with ship role bonuses would do. Balance what exactly? That the Dramiel is awesome? What does have got to do with interceptor bonuses? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2010.04.10 01:05:00 - [34] There are other small ships that need alot more attention then interceptors - which can get a point from outside of large nuet range. EAF's? Need alot of attention. AF's? Need their 4th bonus. Destroyers? Smaller sig radius please. The dramiel is a frigate that has to go into large nuet range to get a point. It doesn't get a reduced signature radius. It doesn't approach 14km/s crow speed of the nano age. And an arty thrasher can put it down in a few rounds. Small ships need some love but fixing super cheap interceptors is not on top of the list.
MukkBarovian	Posted - 2010.04.10 01:29:00 - [35] Lo Faffy. Never chestbeat on forums. If you do link battleclinic. But people will laugh at you even if battleclinic plays trumpet music while proclaiming that noone will ever match your awesomeness and fluffy white clouds fly in the background. That said Faffy is right in one thing. Interceptors have a much more limited role in serious fleet combat than they have had in a long time. You need a couple to tackle small ships that run into you while roaming. You need them possible to catch enemy straglers and grab enemy ships when they begin to flee a battlefield. Thats pretty much it.
Braitai Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2010.04.10 01:48:00 - [36] I agree with the OP, in fact I'll go one step further and say that most frigates are in need of a boost. The Dramiel is not OP. Yes, it can comfortably tackle most solo cruisers and even kill them given enough time, but put two cruisers together 15km apart and it'll die very quickly. The bigger the gang, the less effect speed and sig have on survivability. If a frigate is expected to survive in neut/web/scram range it requires an AB, and either a nos or at least a cap booster. Most frigates simply do not have enough slots to counter the basic anti frigate defenses most cruisers have. Without order nothing can exist. Without chaos nothing can evolve.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 03:14:00 - [37] Originally by: MukkBarovian Lo Faffy. Never chestbeat on forums. I didn't think he was chest beating - like he said he was just preventing an appeal to authority. Sadly it didn't matter, because it was perceived as chest beating. I will say that Faffy's a great frig pilot. I will also say that piloting frigs is sufficiently different from piloting other ships that it requires different player skills. Trying to discredit his opinions on frigs because he uses frig fitting/piloting techniques for bigger ships is a bit silly. I further say I don't have any solid opinions on frigs, except that most of them suck unnecessarily (tier system). Even most of the T2 frigs rather suck, and that the biggest culprits (IMO) are unnecessarily low lock range and unnecessarily gimped fittings. Frigs should be able to fit a full T2 fit without fitting mods. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Darthewok State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.04.10 04:08:00 - [38] Edited by: Darthewok on 10/04/2010 04:14:05 OFFICIAL DRAMIEL HAS JUMPED THE SHARK ANNOUNCEMENT multiple dramiel threads every day, dramiels everywhere in 0.0 and FW, unkillable WCSed-dramiels, dramiels to #!@# autopilot R&D missions, dramiel point calculation messing up killboards... enough is enough... CCP plse nerf the bleeding thing already. dramielization has turned the frig combat world into a circus. i miss the times when people keep arguing which is the top frig among many choices instead of now just arguing dramiel vs anti-dramiel.
Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2010.04.10 04:22:00 - [39] Originally by: Darthewok ...messing up killboards... Yeah if you want to do well on battleclinic you should be flying a Cynabal or Dramiel.
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 04:26:00 - [40] Originally by: Slidepot lol all you want, Faffy is serious light ship business... http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=faffywaffy http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=raimo that comparison is lol... in faffy's favor.. Are you sure? Let's look at the last 6 months... http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Raimo http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/faffywaffy Thanks for playing, try again! ;) ]
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 04:33:00 - [41] Originally by: Raimo Are you sure? Let's look at the last 6 months... http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Raimo http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/faffywaffy Thanks for playing, try again! ;) Eve-Arena doesn't have a huge number of my own kills over the last 6 months. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 04:38:00 - [42] Originally by: Faffywaffy $DIETY forbid something new and unusual is suggested. We can only have more/less of the same on all ships. I bet the idea of scramblers turning off MWD seemed strange to you at first too (it did to me), but EVE didn't end, and in fact, is reasonably balanced. Now, I do think the idea needs to be thought through, but I also think it's an idea that can make things quite interesting without anything being overpowered (inties can still scram other inties; larger ships can still neut/web inties if they're in scram range). Well it would need some serious thinking through to make it work(an understatement), how would you go about solving the Ceptors vs AF/EAF/Faction/T1 frigate tackling issue you would create out of thin air? ]
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 04:52:00 - [43] Edited by: Raimo on 10/04/2010 04:52:30 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Raimo Are you sure? Let's look at the last 6 months... http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Raimo http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/faffywaffy Thanks for playing, try again! ;) Eve-Arena doesn't have a huge number of my own kills over the last 6 months. -Liang You can remedy that by submitting a killboard for syncing as long as it's one that supports it, like EDK boards... Though AFAIK it should have most kills (currently no podmails though) stored on EVE-Kill since the start of 2007 as well as on many major private boards anyway... Not BC though because they don't support syncing. API verification and podmails should be coming soonish btw, and he might be importing kills older than 2007 after all. ]
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:04:00 - [44] Originally by: Raimo You can remedy that by submitting a killboard for syncing as long as it's one that supports it, like EDK boards... Though AFAIK it should have most kills (currently no podmails though) stored on EVE-Kill since the start of 2007 as well as on many major private boards anyway... Not BC though because they don't support syncing. API verification and podmails should be coming soonish btw, and he might be importing kills older than 2007 after all. It doesn't have any kills for Liang.... even though Battleclinic (and EDK) have tons. And even both of those are rather quiet considering we (purposefully) didn't have our killboard sync'ing. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:10:00 - [45] Originally by: Liang Nuren It doesn't have any kills for Liang.... even though Battleclinic (and EDK) have tons. And even both of those are rather quiet considering we (purposefully) didn't have our killboard sync'ing. -Liang ? http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Liang+Nuren ]
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:16:00 - [46] Originally by: Raimo Originally by: Liang Nuren It doesn't have any kills for Liang.... even though Battleclinic (and EDK) have tons. And even both of those are rather quiet considering we (purposefully) didn't have our killboard sync'ing. -Liang ? http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Liang+Nuren Yes because I have one kill. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:21:00 - [47] Originally by: Liang Nuren ? http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Liang+Nuren Yes because I have one kill. -Liang In the last month. Scroll encounters to see that you in fact have more kills. (That "last month" stat by itself is a bit silly IMHO but he has promised to implement the "all time" number back :P ) ]
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:23:00 - [48] Originally by: Raimo In the last month. Scroll encounters to see that you in fact have more kills. (That "last month" stat by itself is a bit silly IMHO but he has promised to implement the "all time" number back :P ) Except that I have way more than that... even in the last month. My point here is that Eve Arena looks awesome.... but it is severely lacking in actual kills. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:38:00 - [49] Edited by: Raimo on 10/04/2010 05:39:15 Originally by: Liang Nuren Except that I have way more than that... even in the last month. My point here is that Eve Arena looks awesome.... but it is severely lacking in actual kills. Originally by: Raimo You can remedy that by submitting a killboard for syncing as long as it's one that supports it, like EDK boards... For many people it's not lacking in killmails at all. Instead of dismissing it, help it out and figure out a killboard it should sync with and submit it, it's still in public beta after all! - I'm sure E-A rank linking will become more prevalent in the future in addition to BC ranks, so if you have e-bushido to defend it's your own responsibility to ensure E-A is accurate on your part (Even though it's all very silly of course) (And in response to your ed: I didn't start the e-bushido wars this time, also see above) -----------------------------------------------
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:43:00 - [50] Originally by: Raimo (And in response to your ed: I didn't start the e-bushido wars this time, also see above) Yeah, but I really like Liang being effectively anonymous on killboards though! Anyway, no - I really really think E-A is really sweet. I'd almost like to help work on it. I figure I might be able to help, since data warehousing actually my job. :p I just don't like killboards and e-bushido. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:49:00 - [51] Hehe. Btw, no need to spam E-A with sync requests for Mentlegen's Club, I submitted their board for syncing just in case to defend Faffy's E-BUSHIDO :P -----------------------------------------------
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 05:54:00 - [52] Originally by: Raimo Hehe. Btw, no need to spam E-A with sync requests for Mentlegen's Club, I submitted their board for syncing just in case to defend Faffy's E-BUSHIDO :P -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
rubico1337 Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises	Posted - 2010.04.10 06:29:00 - [53] Originally by: Faffywaffy I'm going to start with a little appeal to authority to hopefully prevent the "You fail; learn how to fly ceptors" replies. I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. I have a lot of experience flying them both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles. Check the killboard(s). all credibility = lost Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.
Inch Allah	Posted - 2010.04.10 06:31:00 - [54] Originally by: Omara Otawan Originally by: Slidepot lol all you want, Faffy is serious light ship business... http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=faffywaffy http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=raimo that comparison is lol... in faffy's favor.. Sorry Back on Topic.. Just goes to show how hilariously easy it is to farm battleclinic rank by ganking lollerfit BCs and BSs in frig/cruiser size ships. ... . Says the guy with zero kills and four losses on Battleclinic. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Omara+Otawan[/url] Post with your main perhaps? Also, please share with us ways to avoid pewpewing "lollerfit BCs and BSs." Perhaps you run a ship scanner and run the other way when you see that they are "lollerfit?"
Inch Allah	Posted - 2010.04.10 07:10:00 - [55] I too have nothing to say about the OP. Originally by: Raimo Originally by: Slidepot lol all you want, Faffy is serious light ship business... http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=faffywaffy http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=raimo that comparison is lol... in faffy's favor.. Are you sure? Let's look at the last 6 months... http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Raimo http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/faffywaffy Thanks for playing, try again! ;) Sorry Raimo, Faffy's KB stats are better than yours by a wide margin. If you don't like Battleclinic, use your own alliance killboards: http://www.gentlemen-in-space.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=39105 http://hydra.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=155807 Pulling some weird killboard out of your arse that it seems even Liang(!) didn't know had existed up until now proves nothing. Originally by: Raimo Are you sure? Let's look at the last 6 months... <...> Btw, why "the last 6 months?" Why not the last six years or the last six minutes? Originally by: Suitonia Originally by: Faffywaffy $DIETY forbid something new and unusual is suggested. We can only have more/less of the same on all ships. I bet the idea of scramblers turning off MWD seemed strange to you at first too (it did to me), but EVE didn't end, and in fact, is reasonably balanced. Yes, heaven forbid someone fit their ship differently, because its not like you flame people who don't fit the way you want them too. <...> Thanks Suitonia, I think this just might explain Raimo's grudge.
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.10 07:44:00 - [56] Raimo has no grudge - but it explains what an arrogant tool Faffy is. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Darthewok State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.04.10 07:48:00 - [57] Edited by: Darthewok on 10/04/2010 07:55:48 Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Originally by: Darthewok ...messing up killboards... Yeah if you want to do well on battleclinic you should be flying a Cynabal or Dramiel. just so people know how broken this is. faction/pirate stuff is not differentiated from their T1 equivalents though they are way way way more powerful. eg. dramiel >>>>> rifter but is treated like one for scoring. people should realize that many a high BC ranking of late has been built on the back of this broken killpoint scoring of dramiels and cynabals. eg. when a jaguar kills a dramiel it is awarded 8 points, as if the dramiel was nothing more than a rifter. when a dramiel kills a jaguar it is awarded 50 points, as if it did something particularly great which it did not. 6.5 times the points difference. i leave it to you to figure out how much 50-100 dramiel/cynabal kills would skew a ranking upward artificially. just so everyone knows.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.10 08:06:00 - [58] Originally by: Inch Allah Pulling some weird killboard out of your arse that it seems even Liang(!) didn't know had existed up until now proves nothing. I know about it. I was thinking of using it for my corp's new killboard until I tried to post a few pos modules that we took down and it barfed. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.10 08:14:00 - [59] Originally by: Darthewok Edited by: Darthewok on 10/04/2010 08:09:40 Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Originally by: Darthewok ...messing up killboards... Yeah if you want to do well on battleclinic you should be flying a Cynabal or Dramiel. just so people know how broken this is. faction/pirate stuff is not differentiated from their T1 equivalents though they are way way way more powerful. eg. dramiel >>>>> rifter but is treated like one for scoring. people should realize that many a high BC ranking of late has been built on the back of this broken killpoint scoring of dramiels and cynabals. eg. when a jaguar kills a dramiel it is awarded 8 points, as if the dramiel was nothing more than a rifter. when a dramiel kills a jaguar it is awarded 50 points, as if it did something particularly great which it did not. 6.5 times the points difference. i leave it to you to figure out how much 50-100 kills using a dramiel/cynabal would skew a ranking upward artificially. just so everyone knows why so many of the dramiel defenders are secretly so desperate to hold on to it. Just so everyone knows why Darthewok is so bitter: He's terrible at EVE. Your entire post is pretty much ruined by the fact that Caelum (creator of EVE-Arena) is fixing the point values for faction ships in the next overhaul. As per many people from Genos' request. You sure look silly now. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Darthewok State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.04.10 08:16:00 - [60] good. mission accomplished. you have committed him to it verbally. you sure are gullible.
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.10 08:22:00 - [61] Edited by: Amarr Supremacist on 10/04/2010 08:24:55 Originally by: Darthewok Edited by: Darthewok on 10/04/2010 08:18:09 excellent. mission accomplished. you have committed to see the killboard adjustment through, which was my objective. your pride makes you so very easy to mess with, Intigo. lol. Mess with? You're doing no messing, you're just an incompetent tool who is terrible at PvP. And posting. And anything else EVE-related. Also, you had absolutely zero influence in getting this changed. Don't kid yourself. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 08:24:00 - [62] Edited by: Raimo on 10/04/2010 08:25:14 Originally by: Inch Allah Originally by: Raimo Are you sure? Let's look at the last 6 months... http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/Raimo http://www.eve-arena.com/pilots/faffywaffy Thanks for playing, try again! ;) Sorry Raimo, Faffy's KB stats are better than yours by a wide margin. If you don't like Battleclinic, use your own alliance killboards: http://www.gentlemen-in-space.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=39105 http://genos.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=155807 Pulling some weird killboard out of your arse that it seems even Liang(!) didn't know had existed up until now proves nothing. ... Btw, why "the last 6 months?" Why not the last six years or the last six minutes? (N1 Faffy fan club/alt army!) I didn't say I would be better than Faffy, I just at "one of the best Interceptor pilots in EVE"... The E-Bushido and killboard linking came after that and not initiated by me. Also, thanks for proving to us that Faffy flies a lot with his blobby alliance, such epic stats Oh 6 months because EVE-Arena rank is currently calculated from the last 6 months which I find really nice to show current "relevance"... Also the points system is better than BC IMHO. (Though the Dram/ faction issue exists currently there as well but will be fixed soon I hear) Too bad you had not heard about it before, it has seemed to me that most of the PVP community are aware of it and very excited about it's future developments, I know I am. FYL BTW Ed: Saw the posts above, everyone knows Caelum actually created EVE-Arena to see which corp he should join! -----------------------------------------------
Number 17 Caldari COLD-Wing	Posted - 2010.04.10 08:24:00 - [63] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Number 17 Don't have any ideas on how to balance this, but i think something to do with ship role bonuses would do. Balance what exactly? That the Dramiel is awesome? What does have got to do with interceptor bonuses? I fly frigates a lot, and used to fly ceptors scout, tackle, dogfight (aka excel online). Now I don't see any more ceptors in space. ppl rather go out in a rifter, why spend 10 times more in a t2 frig? The role of the interceptor is to tackle and survive, to tackle another ship. If it doesn't survive it has no role. There used to be a time when in an engagement you saw a rapier uncloak, a curse land in, vaga incoming, and you spammed warp. Now it only takes a dramiel to cause same effect. And im not saying dramiel is op, they die to t1 cruisers just like any frig. As Faffy states there is something wrong with interceptors, and there is a reason why nobody flies them any more. I for one would love to have both points in one module, disuptor at <24km, and disable mwd + 2 pt under 9km. It would make dual prop fittings viable for both kind of tackle.
Darthewok State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.04.10 08:25:00 - [64] Edited by: Darthewok on 10/04/2010 08:35:49 Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Also, you had absolutely zero influence in getting this changed. Don't kid yourself. LOL besides, i am also posting so BC and EVE Kills may notice and change it, not just EVE Arena. also, someone who obviously is not posting with main anymore and regularly gets censored on threads tells me i am bad at posting. LOL by the way, EVE Arena after is improved should be one of the coolest new Killboards in EVE. so everyone check it out.
Chris Hansenn	Posted - 2010.04.10 09:02:00 - [65] Gentlemen's Club damn well are going to post on alts to support one of their very few competent PvPers.
Darthewok State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.04.10 09:16:00 - [66] Edited by: Darthewok on 10/04/2010 09:23:58 Originally by: Amarr Supremacist you're just an incompetent tool who is terrible at PvP. oh yes, you keep repeatedly telling people i am incompetent and terrible at PVP. this is certainly true. i am really really really bad. so everyone if you see me in local, come get me as i am an easy kill. free buffet for you! cheers!
Kimura Masahiko Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 10:08:00 - [67] Originally by: Lallaallaa Why don't you fly some more scram Cynabals about it? Check out my sig its pretty cool
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2010.04.10 10:34:00 - [68] Originally by: Omara Otawan Just goes to show how hilariously easy it is to farm battleclinic rank by ganking lollerfit BCs and BSs in frig/cruiser size ships. Yeah... the BC ranking system is nice, strongly favouring solo and small-gang, but it kinda breaks when you realise that you get the same number of points when you gank some noob in a mining Dominix as you do when you kill another an experienced guy in a neuting, full-tackle fit.
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2010.04.10 10:37:00 - [69] Edited by: Faffywaffy on 10/04/2010 10:40:53 I think we've veered pretty far away from the topic, so let me try and close this branch of discussion. I never said I was the best pilot. I don't know Raimo, and he may very well be a better pilot than me. Comparing Battleclinic rankings that are this close doesn't prove who is better (in fact, Mukk is ranked well below me, but is definitely better than me). What it does prove, and this is the only point I was trying to make, is that I'm not a random moron on the forums and that you may want to at least consider listening to what I have to say. Now, please return to the topic at hand, which is, to remind everyone, "Is there a way to boost interceptors to make them useful in their intended role(s)?".
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 10:51:00 - [70] Originally by: Faffywaffy Now, please return to the topic at hand, which is, to remind everyone, "Is there a way to boost interceptors to make them useful in their intended role(s)?". Slight dram nerf, focusing on the LR tackle fits would help some. Maybe a very slight speed nerf and a large-ish cap nerf would be a decent start IMHO but for the love of god, SLIGHT, let's not nuke it like normally happens! After that, I'm not sure. If T3 frigs are coming soon frigate balance will again have new issues but atm it does look like some ceptors and most AFs are in need of some love. Maybe EVE would be a more interesting place again if all ceptors got a slight overall speed boost? AFs would need something else to separate them and make them useful. (I might very well be talking out of my ass here btw) Also, we have to keep in mind that this is exactly how CCP wants to run their game. They don't want complete "balance" between races or ship classes, they want a changing cycle of "OP" and "Subpar" ships/races/classes where all players end up wanting to train for everything, also I'm sure all the threadnaughts on dramiel/falcon/nano/nos/whatever are very amusing at the office :D -----------------------------------------------
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.10 10:57:00 - [71] Originally by: Faffywaffy Now, please return to the topic at hand, which is, to remind everyone, "Is there a way to boost interceptors to make them useful in their intended role(s)?". What are these intended roles and how do we prevent boosting interceptors to fullfill them essentially breaking interceptors or anti-frig ships? (Oh, and by the way, we can't really rebalance stuff based on the Dramiel. It'd require a rebalance of everything frig sized, including other pirate frigates bar maybe Daredevil just because of one ship.) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kimura Masahiko Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 10:58:00 - [72] Originally by: Faffywaffy I don't know Raimo, and he may very well be a better pilot than me. He is. Nothing to brag about though, anyone who has a basic understanding of how to fit ships also falls into this category. Check out my sig its pretty cool
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2010.04.10 11:05:00 - [73] Originally by: Raimo Originally by: Faffywaffy Well it would need some serious thinking through to make it work(an understatement), how would you go about solving the Ceptors vs AF/EAF/Faction/T1 frigate tackling issue you would create out of thin air? A well-fit ceptor rarely goes above 5k/s (significantly less when orbiting). A webbed ceptor would therefore go less than 2k/s, which is about what dramiels go on AB. Not to say necessarily that this isn't a problem, but making them immune to scramblers does boost interceptors to be closer to the dramiel (it will still have more tank with very competitive dps and smaller sigradius on AB).
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2010.04.10 11:10:00 - [74] Originally by: Raimo Slight dram nerf, focusing on the LR tackle fits would help some. How is nerfing the dramiel going to fix interceptors? My point was that interceptors are currently inadequate at their primary intended role (tackling) and they should be boosted to make them better at it. If that happens, a dramiel nerf may not be necessary at all because it will no longer outclass interceptors in their intended role. Aka killing two birds with one stone. Only nerfing the dramiel will still leave ceptors broken.
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.10 11:18:00 - [75] Originally by: Faffywaffy Originally by: Raimo Slight dram nerf, focusing on the LR tackle fits would help some. How is nerfing the dramiel going to fix interceptors? My point was that interceptors are currently inadequate at their primary intended role (tackling) and they should be boosted to make them better at it. If that happens, a dramiel nerf may not be necessary at all because it will no longer outclass interceptors in their intended role. Aka killing two birds with one stone. Only nerfing the dramiel will still leave ceptors broken. But interceptors tackle and stuff. They're vulnerable to anti-frig ships, though, BUT, this is actually working as intended. CCP plan is to make them cheaper still by insurance changes (they more or less said that stuff which has good odds of dying will get a very high insurance payout compared to production cost while recons and stuff which should not die will more or less be as they are now), which turns them into a kind of T2 begginer ship ;P Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2010.04.10 11:26:00 - [76] Edited by: Faffywaffy on 10/04/2010 11:28:35 Originally by: Cpt Branko But interceptors tackle and stuff. They're vulnerable to anti-frig ships, though, BUT, this is actually working as intended. CCP plan is to make them cheaper still by insurance changes (they more or less said that stuff which has good odds of dying will get a very high insurance payout compared to production cost while recons and stuff which should not die will more or less be as they are now), which turns them into a kind of T2 begginer ship ;P Dramiels tackle and stuff. Better than interceptors. Interceptors, however, don't do it very well. It's not about anti-frig ships, it's about being unable to tackle in the presence of almost any two or more ships. You are right. Increasing insurance payout on ceptors is going to result in more incompetent pilots flying them. I disagree that making something cheaper is a way to fix it. They will still not be able to perform their role properly, and with more newbs flying them will become an even less respected class of ships. They'll merely be a stepping stone to the dramiel (even more so than now).
Desudes	Posted - 2010.04.10 12:13:00 - [77] Edited by: Desudes on 10/04/2010 12:15:42 Let tackler inties(Ares for example) web as far as they can point, otherwise you're looking at providing neut/web immunity in order to give them a way to outperform t1 frigs in a meaningful way. Wouldn't mind both, actually. Just the two cents of someone who is tired of people burning back to gates because web range is suicide. Oh, remove the dmg bonuses for something useful(like web range) please.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.10 12:37:00 - [78] Edited by: Furb Killer on 10/04/2010 12:36:53 Equal web and disruptor range and neut immunity? Those have to be one of worst ideas ever.
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 12:47:00 - [79] Lol scram or web immunity would be abused so much, its such an op ability and if such a thing ever went through I would have a field day. The Dramiel is the problem, it's the fastest, most agile ship in the game, it has 4 mids so it can fit MSE, dual prop and scram. While having almost the same dps of a Blaster Taranis. It needs to be adjusted slightly. Otherwise, Interceptors are basically fine except for some. Raptor could use some speed, Crow/Malediction need rockets to not be ****. ---
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.10 14:44:00 - [80] Originally by: Suitonia Lol scram or web immunity would be abused so much, its such an op ability and if such a thing ever went through I would have a field day. The Dramiel is the problem, it's the fastest, most agile ship in the game, it has 4 mids so it can fit MSE, dual prop and scram. While having almost the same dps of a Blaster Taranis. It needs to be adjusted slightly. Otherwise, Interceptors are basically fine except for some. Raptor could use some speed, Crow/Malediction need rockets to not be ****. This. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Hussain Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2010.04.10 14:56:00 - [81] Honestly I think you all have it wrong. The question should not be as to nerf/boost small fast ships but to know what can the non-small fast ships can do to counter them. And I am talking in general terms not specific fittings and not specific ships, also I am not talking in ways to get away from them , but how to hurt them. When we get that right small fast ships will be again tacklers that are NOT invulnerable to large ships and the game would benefit a lot from it. As I think it was the original dev intent. But you know the saying about intents and hell...
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2010.04.10 15:14:00 - [82] Originally by: Suitonia The Dramiel is the problem... You're missing my point too. The dramiel is only overpowered because ceptors are underpowered, and you can't fix that by nerfing the dram.
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2010.04.10 15:31:00 - [83] Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 10/04/2010 15:31:59 Originally by: Faffywaffy Originally by: Suitonia The Dramiel is the problem... You're missing my point too. The dramiel is only overpowered because ceptors are underpowered, and you can't fix that by nerfing the dram. No, it's overpowered because it does everything too well. Buff inties all you want, frigates will still be divided into "Dramiels" and "that stuff you fly if you're not skilled/funded for a Dramiel" God help us if that warp stab fit I've seen cropping up actually turns out to be viable enough that it becomes widespread. _________________________________ Originally by: Dodgy Past Can't see the Caldari approving of free love though.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.10 15:33:00 - [84] The dramiel outclasses ceptors, assault frigs and other faction frigs easily. ADDED to that is the ability to fit dual prop so it can pretty much always gtfo if needed. The problem isnt with ceptors.
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 16:15:00 - [85] Edited by: Raimo on 10/04/2010 16:15:36 Originally by: Furb Killer The dramiel outclasses ceptors, assault frigs and other faction frigs easily. ADDED to that is the ability to fit dual prop so it can pretty much always gtfo if needed. The problem isnt with ceptors. You're exagerrating a tad though bro. Dual prop, superior speed, near AF MSE tank and 200+ DPS aside, it still goes squish when a decent gang baits it properly or somebody has a decent anti-dram fit or w/e. Even (very) lucky artillery can do it... Believe me, I know. :P But I do agree that a slight dram nerf is needed. ----------------------------------------------- www.eve-arena.com
Kimura Masahiko Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 16:31:00 - [86] Ok for small gang pvp the dramiel is the do it all ship but if you would fly one over a stiletto in a proper battel then you are pretty ******ed. Check out my sig its pretty cool
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.10 16:42:00 - [87] Originally by: Faffywaffy Originally by: Suitonia The Dramiel is the problem... You're missing my point too. The dramiel is only overpowered because ceptors are underpowered, and you can't fix that by nerfing the dram. I completely disagree. I think interceptors are well balanced and fine. The Dramiel is overpowered because it has Assault frig dps, near assault frig EHP, while going 6km/s with a mwd, 2km/s with an AB (thats with t2, and a single cheap speed implant). The Taranis for example, does about 30-40 more dps than a Dramiel, but is almost twice as slow, has 3x less it's effective range, and half the effective hitpoints. It's not because the Taranis is underpowered, it is fine and was flown plenty before Dominion, I think it ranked 6 on the eve-kill.net FoTM list. I don't want to brag or anything, just putting it out there that I know from experience what I am talking about. I am one of the best blaster Taranis pilots in the game, and have almost 1,700 kills with one. as much as I would really love to see it get a buff, it is in no-way deserving of one. I flew the Taranis alot Pre QR, and after, and I have also flown many other interceptors on alts, I think they are all balanced and fine (the turret ones). The only interceptor that needs a buff is the Raptor. everything else is fine. (Crow/Malediction is more a problem of lol frigate missile weapons) ---
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.04.10 17:36:00 - [88] Originally by: Suitonia The Taranis for example, does about 30-40 more dps than a Dramiel, but is almost twice as slow, has 3x less it's effective range, and half the effective hitpoints. It's not because the Taranis is underpowered, it is fine and was flown plenty before Dominion, I think it ranked 6 on the eve-kill.net FoTM list. You see, the problem with your argument is you are comparing a combat interceptor with a pirate faction frigate. And you are overexaggerating quite a bit, but you know that I guess. Compare it to other combat interceptors, compare Dramiel to Daredevil (which outclasses the taranis in every way by a huge margin as well) and try again. Oh, and the taranis never ranked 6 on the eve-kill FoTM list, not even close
Faffywaffy	Posted - 2010.04.10 18:20:00 - [89] Originally by: Suitonia Originally by: Faffywaffy Originally by: Suitonia The Dramiel is the problem... You're missing my point too. The dramiel is only overpowered because ceptors are underpowered, and you can't fix that by nerfing the dram. I completely disagree. I think interceptors are well balanced and fine. The Dramiel is overpowered because it has Assault frig dps, near assault frig EHP, while going 6km/s with a mwd, 2km/s with an AB (thats with t2, and a single cheap speed implant). The Taranis for example, does about 30-40 more dps than a Dramiel, but is almost twice as slow, has 3x less it's effective range, and half the effective hitpoints. It's not because the Taranis is underpowered, it is fine and was flown plenty before Dominion, I think it ranked 6 on the eve-kill.net FoTM list. I don't want to brag or anything, just putting it out there that I know from experience what I am talking about. I am one of the best blaster Taranis pilots in the game, and have almost 1,700 kills with one. as much as I would really love to see it get a buff, it is in no-way deserving of one. I flew the Taranis alot Pre QR, and after, and I have also flown many other interceptors on alts, I think they are all balanced and fine (the turret ones). The only interceptor that needs a buff is the Raptor. everything else is fine. (Crow/Malediction is more a problem of lol frigate missile weapons) Interceptors are reasonably balanced (with the few exceptions you mention) amongst themselves - I agree with that. Your extensive experience with them is almost entirely in a 1v1 setting. That is not what I'm talking about. The problem I'm talking about is in the setting of a mid-sized fleet fight, where they are nearly useless.
Desudes	Posted - 2010.04.10 19:10:00 - [90] Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 10/04/2010 12:36:53 Equal web and disruptor range and neut immunity? Those have to be one of worst ideas ever. what else will benefit the tackler? You can already orbit safely with a point. Next logical step is to web, amything else is something besides tackling.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.04.10 19:37:00 - [91] Originally by: Faffywaffy The problem I'm talking about is in the setting of a mid-sized fleet fight, where they are nearly useless. That applies to almost all sub-cruiser hulls, there are simply too many potential zero transversal one-volleys waiting to happen in a fur-ball. If we actually buffed interceptors just some of the way towards the Dramiel they would be nigh unkillable even in fleets. Their speed is currently balanced in regards to signature, damage, EHP and bonuses .. change either one and the whole damn thing falls apart. Issue with current Dramiel is that it exceeds both interceptor AND AF performance in almost all areas, setting it apart from all other hulls .. even the other pirate hulls (which are actually pretty well balanced). If any change were to be made then it should be the interceptor production cost being cut in half (or more) so that they take on the semi-disposable role they are meant for
Trellish The Perfect Storm Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.04.10 19:38:00 - [92] Originally by: Raimo After that, I'm not sure. If T3 frigs are coming soon frigate balance will again have new issues but atm it does look like many ceptors and most AFs (and some of the new faction frigs) are in need of some love. This is an excellent point... it's hard to talk to much about balance in this area, when we know that a significant unknown variable is going to happen. That said, Faffy, I would prefer a slight nerf to the dram rather than leaving it as is. Interceptors already have lots of good things about them, and something like complete removal of mwd sig blossom would be a significant unbalancing factor in the small gang vs small gang. It would benefit the fleet ceptor, at the cost of small gang pvp.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.04.10 19:46:00 - [93] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida If any change were to be made then it should be the interceptor production cost being cut in half (or more) so that they take on the semi-disposable role they are meant for How dare you, a reasonable comment on my forums?
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia Here Be Dragons	Posted - 2010.04.10 19:50:00 - [94] Interceptors are fine, they are just T2 Frigates, not super ships. They have an awesome role in small to mid sized gangs. Making a faction frigate be a tank,super speedy,great dps,drone boat,dual prop all in one fit is a little annoying though. Even with all that it would still be ok if it didnt have a mass sooo much lower than any other interceptor.
Goumindong SniggWaffe	Posted - 2010.04.10 20:10:00 - [95] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Suitonia Lol scram or web immunity would be abused so much, its such an op ability and if such a thing ever went through I would have a field day. The Dramiel is the problem, it's the fastest, most agile ship in the game, it has 4 mids so it can fit MSE, dual prop and scram. While having almost the same dps of a Blaster Taranis. It needs to be adjusted slightly. Otherwise, Interceptors are basically fine except for some. Raptor could use some speed, Crow/Malediction need rockets to not be ****. This. Or, to put it maybe more precisely. It's OK for the drammiel to have plenty of damage, tank, cap, and drones. Its not OK to also be 25% faster and 33% more agile than the next closest ship and nearly twice as fast as the rest of the pirate faction frigates
Desudes	Posted - 2010.04.11 00:00:00 - [96] Edited by: Desudes on 11/04/2010 00:01:43 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida If we actually buffed interceptors just some of the way towards the Dramiel they would be nigh unkillable even in fleets. A nigh unkillable floating warp disrupter putting out **all dps would be bad how? Originally by:** Hirana Yoshida If any change were to be made then it should be the interceptor production cost being cut in half (or more) so that they take on the semi-disposable role they are meant for Smile If you want a disposable tackle you can use a rifter. Is surviving engagements and/or being more useful then a t1 variant to much to ask for?
Darthewok State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.04.11 02:07:00 - [97] Edited by: Darthewok on 11/04/2010 02:07:20 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida If any change were to be made then it should be the interceptor production cost being cut in half (or more) so that they take on the semi-disposable role they are meant for Who knows when CCP will get round to addressing the fixed amount of T2 moon goo problem. But if and when they do, and inty, AF and HAC prices fall in line with their performance, i think that should mostly settle the current value-for-money problems these classes are currently facing.
Ghost Nightmare Sons of Damnation MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.11 02:43:00 - [98] As far as i can tell the level of quality goes 1. T1 2. Faction 3. T2 4. Pirate Pirate ships are SUPPOSED to be better than their t2 counterparts Compare the bhaalgorn, nightmare, vindicator, rattlesnake and Machariel to their t2 counterparts, they are far more powerfull, but come with a far greater price tag. Another Example Cynabal vs Vagabond = Cynabal better Vigilant vs Deimos = Vigilant better A damn dramiel costs FAR more than an interceptor, it should be better... It doesnt need to be nerfed, and interceptors dont need to be buffed, not everyone can afford the dramiels 100mil price tag compared to whatever ceptors are at. Dramiels are powerfull, but a well fitted rupture would kick the **** out of one. So clearly isnt that over-powered.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.04.11 06:11:00 - [99] Originally by: Ghost Nightmare 1. T1 2. Faction 3. T2 4. Pirate Pirate ships are SUPPOSED to be better than their t2 counterparts... The problem with making such a list is that it is unable to actually show the truth. In between all those points you have "equal to or greater" not simply "greater than". If you want to invoke the design decisions may I suggest you reference the actual blog instead of an interpretation? All the other pirate ships live up to the "equal to or greater" paradigm with severe drawbacks and inability able to trump t2 variants in all areas but a few. Dramiel supersedes not just interceptors but AFs in all areas with not a single drawback for an enemy to exploit. - T2 BS are pre-nerfed, old news. They are outperformed by T1 in many cases so no big surprise. - Cynabal > Vagabond? That is news to me. Has a few more drones, slightly better agility but practically everything else is equal to. Cynabals are better in that they are cheaper than Vagabonds with roughly the same capabilities. - Blaster boats are not really used except as back-up damage dealers, I see maybe one or two a week so I cannot verify or deny the Vigilant claim. Better on paper though. And for Goddess sake, enough with the ridiculous ISK balance argument .. it has been debunked ad infinitum already. Guess we all have to fly nothing but Ruptures and Assault Caracals since those are the only ones able to reliably counter Dramiels without resorting to gimmick fits .. will do wonders for variety
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.04.11 06:57:00 - [100] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 11/04/2010 07:03:03 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida - Cynabal > Vagabond? That is news to me. Has a few more drones, slightly better agility but practically everything else is equal to. Cynabals are better in that they are cheaper than Vagabonds with roughly the same capabilities. Uhm, you are completely wrong. It is not just slightly more agile, it is more agile than a standard interceptor fitting, and agility is pretty much the single most important attribute for both Vagabond and Cynabal. It has way better range on turrets (which equals way better real dps output), the extra dronebay allows you to bring ecm drones as additional gtfo button. It has that extra midslot that allows for much more versatile fittings, for example the dual prop, and it has a crapload of pg/cpu to fit all these and more. It is pretty much superior to the Vagabond in every single attribute, and way way superior in those that are important. You are also wrong about them being cheaper, but the price difference is only 10-15%, so why would you ever fly Vagabond when you get the way better ship for just a little more, not even mentioning training for one since the Cynabal requires less training time to max out as well.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.04.11 07:12:00 - [101] Originally by: Omara Otawan Uhm, you are completely wrong. It is not just slightly more agile, it is more agile than a standard interceptor fitting, and agility is pretty much the single most important attribute for both Vagabond and Cynabal. It has way better range on turrets (which equals way better real dps output), the extra dronebay allows you to bring ecm drones as additional gtfo button. It has that extra midslot that allows for much more versatile fittings, for example the dual prop, and it has a crapload of pg/cpu to fit all these and more. It is pretty much superior to the Vagabond in every single attribute, and way way superior in those that are important. - Holy crap. The agility is through the roof, never actually checked the numbers, just basing on experience fighting the things. My mistake - Has the same falloff bonus doesn't it so range is "equal to" unless specifically boosted. - If you actually make use of those midslots for versatility tank drops below that of a Vagabond so again "equal to". - Speed is pretty much the same, perhaps with a slight edge to Cynabal due to lower mass (has lower base spd though) so roughly "equal to". - Didn't know Vagabonds had any fitting issues unless using 425's .. havent heard anything to that effect at any rate. But yea, faction boats are generally swimming in free space compared to vanilla T1. - Five extra lights can be godly, the main reason I prefer Navy Omens over Zealots these days. Haven't seen any Cynabals using lights yet though, they all seem stuck in the drone-bombing mindset and use mediums for more damage. So I beg to differ, it is "equal to" in a lot of areas, but superior where it counts (speed potential and agility).
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.04.11 07:20:00 - [102] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida - Has the same falloff bonus doesn't it so range is "equal to" unless specifically boosted. It can use 425s without any trouble, which gives it a huge range advantage. Vagabonds will struggle with 220s, and typically run 180s or a mix of 220s and 180s. Cynabals can also get away with one more range mod than the Vagabond. Originally by: Hirana Yoshida - If you actually make use of those midslots for versatility tank drops below that of a Vagabond so again "equal to". It doesnt drop below, it drops to about the same, while you got one extra toy like AB, web or whatever. Thats not equal, thats same tank plus an extra useful module. Originally by: Hirana Yoshida - Speed is pretty much the same, perhaps with a slight edge to Cynabal due to lower mass (has lower base spd though) so roughly "equal to". Raw speed is about the same, but keep in mind raw speed is nothing without acceleration. Guess which ship got a huge edge there? Originally by: Hirana Yoshida - Didn't know Vagabonds had any fitting issues unless using 425's .. havent heard anything to that effect at any rate. But yea, faction boats are generally swimming in free space compared to vanilla T1. They do, see above regarding guns.
Ammy Azimuth	Posted - 2010.04.11 08:52:00 - [103] Edited by: Ammy Azimuth on 11/04/2010 08:54:47 Too bad the Cynabal looks like a ****roach. Vagabond looks prettier albeit it isn't the prettiest bird out there. And I'm in favor of the interceptors price getting dropped and insurance ratio going up so they can be the more disposable tackle role. Also dramiel needs a slight nerf, I don't want a big one. I accidentally started the dreadnaught when I didn't mean to. And I exaggerated a little bit on that thread, but I wanted to call out some key points that something was wrong with that ship. Also I think Raimo is a cool guy.
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.11 10:27:00 - [104] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 11/04/2010 07:21:19 Originally by: Omara Otawan Uhm, you are completely wrong. It is not just slightly more agile, it is more agile than a standard interceptor fitting, and agility is pretty much the single most important attribute for both Vagabond and Cynabal. It has way better range on turrets (which equals way better real dps output), the extra dronebay allows you to bring ecm drones as additional gtfo button. It has that extra midslot that allows for much more versatile fittings, for example the dual prop, and it has a crapload of pg/cpu to fit all these and more. It is pretty much superior to the Vagabond in every single attribute, and way way superior in those that are important. - Holy crap. The agility is through the roof, never actually checked the numbers, just basing on experience fighting the things. My mistake - Has the same falloff bonus doesn't it so range is "equal to" unless specifically boosted. - If you actually make use of those midslots for versatility tank drops below that of a Vagabond so again "equal to". - Speed is pretty much the same, perhaps with a slight edge to Cynabal due to lower mass (has lower base spd though) so roughly "equal to". - Didn't know Vagabonds had any fitting issues unless using 425's .. havent heard anything to that effect at any rate. But yea, faction boats are generally swimming in free space compared to vanilla T1. - Five extra lights can be godly, the main reason I prefer Navy Omens over Zealots these days. Haven't seen any Cynabals using lights yet though, they all seem stuck in the drone-bombing mindset and use mediums for more damage. - Just checked, price has gone up since I checked a month ago .. a lot. They were hovering around 130 per unit .. guess sellers wised up. Good for them - Training time is not that much different, it is a rank 5 vs a rank 6 skill. About a weeks worth, hardly noticeable. So I beg to differ, it is "equal to" in a lot of areas, but superior where it counts (speed potential and agility). ...what? Every single one of those points show how stupid you are. The Cynabal is superior to the Vagabond in every single way. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.04.11 12:50:00 - [105] Originally by: Amarr Supremacist ...what? Every single one of those points show how stupid you are. The Cynabal is superior to the Vagabond in every single way. Do you find that personal insults and blanket statements makes others more likely to believe you and want to continue with polite discourse?
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.11 12:56:00 - [106] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: Amarr Supremacist ...what? Every single one of those points show how stupid you are. The Cynabal is superior to the Vagabond in every single way. Do you find that personal insults and blanket statements makes others more likely to believe you and want to continue with polite discourse? Do you find making longer posts gives your post some kind of merit even though all of it is worthless dribble that is just plain wrong? ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.04.11 12:59:00 - [107] Nerf dramial it is clearly op. Oh and only caldari ceptors needs a boost the others are fine ,maybe except malediction but that is due to rockets.
Ghost Nightmare Sons of Damnation MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.11 14:05:00 - [108] Edited by: Ghost Nightmare on 11/04/2010 14:05:26 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida derp Originally by: Ghost Nightmare derp Speaking as somone who flies Pirate ships, T2 ships and Faction ships into pvp i can tell you that Pirate ships are by far the most powerful. Deimos is a glass cannon, its nicknamed the diemost for a reason..., Vigilant can easily fit a 1600mm plate and a full rack of neutrons, so it deals more damage than its Deimos counterpart and has more tank. Combine that with access to 90% webs, and you have a ship that is better than an Astarte... Id call you on the Cynabal nonsense you spouted, but everyone else seemed to do that. (last time i checked, Cynabals where 300 mil considering that a Vaga is more like 100 spending 3 times as much for the bonuses it gets seems fair. Ashimmu: If a zealot and a pilgrim had a baby this would be it, it neuts like a bastard and deals a fair amount of damage. Not only that but it fits a savage tank Phantasm: 1500 dps shield tank on a crusier while doing 500 dps.... Gila: Makes the Ishtar its *** due to extremely capable shield tank and larger drone bay Worm: Better than an Ishkur, can fit amazing shield tank and is fast.. Daredevil: This does more damage than any frigate in the game, it essentially has 6 turrets due to its bonuses Cruor: if the amarr af and the amarr ewar frig had a steroid baby... Vindicator: 37% damage mod.... 8 turrets... 90% webs.... increased agility.... how does that not make any other blaster boat its ***? my one of these can beat pretty much any similar fit ship in a straight fight, the amount of damage it does is staggering... Bhaalgorn: My one neuts a Battle cruisers entire cap every 24 seconds, while dealing 1000 dps and having a massive buffer tank and webs that reach to 40km overheated.... Nightmare: Amazing shield tank.... with amazing damage....and neuts/nos in utility highslots (this isnt the best example.. maelstrom is almost as good) Mach: its fast.... and big..... really fast and really big... Rattler: Fit passive shield tank and youll be amazed to find it tanks like three times as much as a drake, while dealing gnarly drone damage. Find me a t2/t1/faction ship that can compare with these....
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.11 14:19:00 - [109] Newsflash - writing in red only makes you look stupid. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.04.11 14:21:00 - [110] Originally by: Ghost Nightmare Phantasm: 1500 dps shield tank on a crusier while doing 500 dps....
Ghost Nightmare Sons of Damnation MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.11 14:24:00 - [111] Originally by: Amarr Supremacist derp Newsflash - writing in red made you waste 5 minutes writing a response to tell me how writing in red is stupid
Arrador	Posted - 2010.04.11 15:01:00 - [112] The only Advantage the Vagabond has above a cynabal. Is T2 resists.
chrisss0r	Posted - 2010.04.11 15:26:00 - [113] Edited by: chrisss0r on 11/04/2010 15:31:10 saying that the dramiel is balanced because a cynabal is better than a vagabond is bull**** because the equivalent would be a pirate faction cruiser that has better speed and agaility as a vagabond, the same dps as a vagabond and more range than a muninn. The dramiel has better speed/agility than interceptors AND the fighting ability of assault frigs. or to give another example. YES the vigilant wipes the floor with the deimos. Now add the ability to field 5 heavies/sentries and you will have a ship that is what the dram is to the frigs.
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.11 15:37:00 - [114] Originally by: Ghost Nightmare Originally by: Amarr Supremacist derp Newsflash - writing in red made you waste 5 minutes writing a response to tell me how writing in red is stupid 5 minutes? Is that how long it takes for you to post on the forums? Also, your earlier "list" is so hilariously stupid I am getting a smile on my face just reading it. You should probably just quit while you're ahead. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Ghost Nightmare Sons of Damnation MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.11 15:47:00 - [115] Edited by: Ghost Nightmare on 11/04/2010 15:50:26 Originally by: chrisss0r derp Looks at the cynabal 1. 25% rate of fire bonus 2. 50% damage bonus 3. 50% falloff bonus Seems to me thats got better speed and agility that a vagabond, more dps than a vagabond and muninn and id suggest going to EFT and putting arties on it :P Try flying these ships before you judge them.. Ashimmu 1. Neut bonus of a pilgrim 2. Damage of a zealot 3. Web bonus of a paladin :O looks like this is a common theme throughout pirate ships, we should fly them more than normal ships! hmm Vagabond: 100 mil... Cynabal: 300mil! hmm AF/Ceptor: 15mil... .Dramiel: 70mil! wow if i had the money and could afford the loss, id totally use those ships! Just me who thinks this seems ok? EDIT: Oh wait i totally do have the money and can afford the loss!
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.11 15:48:00 - [116] You are a terrible poster or a genius troll. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Ghost Nightmare Sons of Damnation MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.11 16:04:00 - [117] Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Originally by: Ghost Nightmare Originally by: Amarr Supremacist derp derp derp 5 mins is how long the multi-post timer is :O! You make me laugh, you may consider your existence justified
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.11 16:12:00 - [118] Avoiding the multi-post timer sure is... ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.11 16:13:00 - [119] ...hard. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.11 17:18:00 - [120] Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Avoiding the multi-post timer sure is... 16:12:00 Originally by: Amarr Supremacist ...hard. 16:13:00 Witchcraft! It's a witch! Burn it at the stake! (How the hell do you do that?)
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.04.11 17:38:00 - [121] Originally by: Ghost Nightmare Id call you on the Cynabal nonsense you spouted, but everyone else seemed to do that. (last time i checked, Cynabals where 300 mil considering that a Vaga is more like 100 spending 3 times as much for the bonuses it gets seems fair. I dont know where you buy your ships, but Vagabonds are going for about 120mill, while Cynabals go for like 140-150mill. Not 300mill.
Ghost Nightmare Sons of Damnation MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.11 17:43:00 - [122] Originally by: Omara Otawan Originally by: Ghost Nightmare derp derp on tranq right now its 200mil (all regions), im man enough to admit i was mistaken :P still far more than a Vagabond
Proxyyyy Caldari The Tuskers The Tusker Bastards	Posted - 2010.04.11 18:06:00 - [123] I believed that the scram changes realy **ed ceptors. I wouldnt mind them not being affected by the whole (OMFG MY MWD HAS CD OUT). Making them immune to the effects of warp scramblers would make them pretty intresting... Hmmm maybe even overpowered? Btw screw you! My crow is freaking AWSOME!!!!!!! Also eve-arena sucks ballz. Its just a new battleclinic wtih a sweet UI. Also the whole problem with the killboards are these arbitrary formula's that some lame loser who decideds what killz are suppose to be better than others. Btw that way of thinking only caters towards solo pvp'ers (Which i am) and since thats the case. ** that sh!t. Just stick to efficiency and total amount of ships destroyed. If dudes like to blob, fine do that sh!t and enjoy it. If they like to do small gang only, fine do that sh!t and enjoy it. If you must do the whole arbitrary points value thing. It should only correlate to a specific pilots preformance and not a corp or alliance. If a corp is blobing the hell out of stuff and doing alot of damage isk wise, then i believe that is a good corp (As a whole). There preformance reflects on the corp as a whole and not on a individual pilot, where i believe a arbitrary formula should only be used. I do like the fact it shows the most active pilots for the last 1 - 6 months i think? As far as the whole cynabal being way better than the vagabond thing. I dont believe that to be true. The preformance of the stabber fleet issue, vagabond and cynabal are very similar. Plus! Alot of vagabond pilots are to busy runing away from a cynabal to realy test how that fight would realy go down. Butz i recently been given a cynabal for free from a broski and it seems fun. As for nerfing the drameil, i dont care if it goes or stays tbh. Its a badass looking ship that hurts alot of feelings, and their is no doubt its a pirate ship. I mean look at all the tears and whining it causes = )
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.11 18:52:00 - [124] Originally by: Seriously Bored Witchcraft! It's a witch! Burn it at the stake! (How the hell do you do that?) I see you have not trained Forum Warfare V. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.11 18:53:00 - [125] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/04/2010 18:54:12 Also, interceptors got screwed by scram changes how? If I remember correctly, before scramblers shutting off MWD was introduced, old webs would not only slow you down to a crawl but also retain your huge sig radius, a win/win combination for survival. I used to go ceptor hunting in a Hurricane in the old days Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Bibbleibble	Posted - 2010.04.11 18:57:00 - [126] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Seriously Bored Witchcraft! It's a witch! Burn it at the stake! (How the hell do you do that?) I see you have not trained Forum Warfare V. Hint For the Clueless: Log out and back in.
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.11 19:00:00 - [127] Originally by: Bibbleibble ... Giving out the secrets of the forum warrior for free. Shameful. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.11 20:20:00 - [128] Edited by: Suitonia on 11/04/2010 20:21:44 The Scram changes (and web nerf) were a huge buff for interceptors that engage in web range. QR made them much more viable. For those of you who don't understand traversal. Lets say I have a Taranis and I engage a Hurricane, we both start 500m apart from eachother, which is the best scenario for me. Hurricane, webs me, and I web him, he turns on his MWD and burns in a random direction, he is now faster than me, and eventually, he gets far enough away that his autocannons track me, I die. I can turn on my MWD to become faster than him to counteract this, however, being in web range with now a cruiser signature radius, I die. Now I can tackle a hurricane at 500m in my dual prop ranis, and have a reasonable chance of success. A dual neut hurricane with a web and warriors will probably kill me (maybe hurricane wasn't the best example), but I can avoid all the damage from his guns while I am alive and have him scrammed. Another interceptor buff that was introduced in QR was their sig radius reduction bonus was changed, it used to be a flat 5% sig reduction per level, which still resulted in 120+ sig radius when you had interceptor 5 on most interceptors. My Ares/Taranis now has about 60m less signiture radius than it did have with mwd on. I used to be able to be tracked by a Hurricane with 220's mwding away from me, while I was going 6km/s easily. Now the same hurricane cannot track me at 4km/s. ---
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.11 20:29:00 - [129] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/04/2010 20:31:37 Originally by: Suitonia The Scram changes (and web nerf) were a huge buff for interceptors that engage in web range. QR made them much more viable. For those of you who don't understand traversal. Lets say I have a Taranis, we both start 500m apart from eachother, which is the best scenario for me. Hurricane, webs me, and I web him, he turns on his MWD and burns in a random direction, he is now faster than me, and eventually, he gets far enough away that his autocannons track me, I die. I can turn on my MWD to become faster than him to counteract this, however, being in web range with now a cruiser signature radius, I die. Now I can tackle a hurricane at 500m in my dual prop ranis, and have a reasonable chance of success. A dual neut hurricane with a web and warriors will probably kill me (maybe hurricane wasn't the best example), but I can avoid all the damage from his guns while I am alive and have him scrammed. Another interceptor buff that was introduced in QR was their sig radius reduction bonus was changed, it used to be a flat 5% sig reduction per level, which still resulted in 120+ sig radius when you had interceptor 5 on most interceptors. My Ares/Taranis now has about 60m less signiture radius than it did have with mwd on. I used to be able to be tracked by a Hurricane with 220's mwding away from me, while I was going 6km/s easily. Now the same hurricane cannot track me at 4km/s. This should be stickied somewhere. QR was a massive buff for (not the really pimped ones) interceptors in general and a huge buff for anything short range + frig sized. You could often kill the not so awesomely flown / skilled interceptors before they could get to disengage in a falloff rigged Hurricane. Now you can drive them off reasonably reliable in a dual-TE fit, but it's safer to tackle then it used to be by miles, and you can fly a non-fail interceptor on the cheap. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Proxyyyy Caldari The Tuskers The Tusker Bastards	Posted - 2010.04.11 21:02:00 - [130] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/04/2010 18:54:12 Also, interceptors got screwed by scram changes how? If I remember correctly, before scramblers shutting off MWD was introduced, old webs would not only slow you down to a crawl but also retain your huge sig radius, a win/win combination for survival. I used to go ceptor hunting in a Hurricane in the old days True! 90% web was a biatch!!!!!!!!
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.11 23:31:00 - [131] Proxyyyy, you are such a terrible poster and understand nothing of EVE mechanics. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Proxyyyy Caldari The Tuskers The Tusker Bastards	Posted - 2010.04.12 01:05:00 - [132] Spaceships...
Shaitis Caldari Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.12 09:08:00 - [133] Originally by: Mahke Edited by: Mahke on 09/04/2010 21:25:34 Originally by: Faffywaffy I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. I have a lot of experience flying them both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles. Check the killboard(s). I am one of the best forum pilots in Eve. I have lots of experience posting both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles (except logging in). Check the board(s). edit: derf nramiel Faffywaffy is actually good, I fought with and vs him and I know who he is, and who are you ?
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.12 10:37:00 - [134] I'm pretty sure he is just trolling. ---
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.04.12 10:46:00 - [135] Originally by: Shaitis Originally by: Mahke Edited by: Mahke on 09/04/2010 21:25:34 Originally by: Faffywaffy I am one of the best interceptor pilots in Eve. I have a lot of experience flying them both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles. Check the killboard(s). I am one of the best forum pilots in Eve. I have lots of experience posting both solo and in fleets, fulfilling all kinds of roles (except logging in). Check the board(s). edit: derf nramiel Faffywaffy is actually good, I fought with and vs him and I know who he is, and who are you ? Wow. You're not the sharpest knife in the cabinet, are you? ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet!
Mrs Management	Posted - 2010.04.12 11:46:00 - [136] To fix Interceptors they need to change Neuts to sig size based effect.
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.12 13:46:00 - [137] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/04/2010 13:51:09 Originally by: Mrs Management To fix Interceptors they need to change Neuts to sig size based effect. Interceptors are not broken, and should not have a free card to kill everything regardless if counterfit or no. There also exists the tackle interceptor which has a bonus to disruptor range enabling it to exceed any non-faction/officer neut range. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:50:00 - [138] The only interceptor that needs fixing is the Raptor. (Crow/Malediction needs rockets to not suck, but thats a weapon problem, the hull itself is fine).

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